CC wrote:

Like Bush really cared about the Constitution while taking away our
rights
over the last 8 years
CC

What rights were taken away?

My right to privacy with the NSA wire tapping through AT&T and any other
provider, Be it telephone, internet, or any other way of ease dropping
they wanted.
And it was not just only all US - overseas. Next is their ability to
deny your rights to due process
if they "think" or want to label you as a terrorist, doesn't matter if
you are or not, just what they want
to say you are to be able to restrain you
CC


For the sake of debate, I'll stipulate that these "rights" have been
been denied you.

Obama has been in office with a Democratic controlled House and Senate
for over 100 days.

Have these rights been returned to you?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Tim Daneliuk wrote:

The one exception here was W's expansion of NSA "wiretapping" on
domestic communications. He certainly did this the wrong way. It
absolutely should have been done selectively and under a court's
supervision. But let us not forget that the Democrats - those
fabulous patriots that they are - blocked any attempt to help W in
this matter - say, by providing him with a more rational and
streamlined court oversight system. They were quite happy to sit by
and do *nothing* (but bitch and whine, two of the
three pillars of the Left, the other being stealing) and then use the
issue to go after Bush politically.

There was no "domestic" wiretapping - except by accident. All tapped
communication involved at least one foreign subject.

The first instances of intercepting enemy electronic communications took
place during the Second War of Independence when both the Union and the
Confederacy tapped into their adversaries telegraph lines - without
warrants, I might add. Such surveillance continues to the present day with
the heyday during the times when we cracked the Japanese "Purple Code" and
the Brits at Benchely Park deciphered the Enigma machine. We didn't need
warrants to listen in to the Japanese fleet traffic and the British didn't
require a QC warrant to follow the German submarine fleet.

The Left and the Right talk past each other: The Left sees all the issues as
crimes and constitution. The Right sees the issues as war problems. The 4th,
5th, and 6th Amendments deal with "crimes" as in "In all criminal
proceedings..." The Left asserts that detainees and everybody else are
entitled to constitutional protections.

The Right sees things through the president's Article II powers. The
detainees at Gitmo, according to the Right, are not criminals - they have
committed no crimes and are not charged with crimes. As such, they are not
entitled to lawyers, courts, witnesses on their behalf, indictment by a
grand jury, speedy trials, and all the other constitutional privileges we
give to criminals. For example, we incarcerate people all the time who are
not "criminals:" Civil contempt, juveniles, illegal aliens, contagious
disease carriers, and more. None are constitutionally entitled to a trial,
lawyers, compulsory process for witnesses, avoidance of self-incrimination,
and the like.

During WW2, several hundred thousand captured German and Italian prisoners
were housed on US soil (Texas alone had over 100 POW camps). Of these
hundreds of thousands of prisoners, many were U.S. citizens (usually dual
citizenship). Not one got access to our courts. Not one got legal
representation. Why? Because they were not criminals.

I'm not saying the good folks at Gitmo are POWs, far from it*. I am only
illustrating that there are parallel tracks of justice: one for criminals
and one for events arising under the rules of war. These tracks are NOT the
same and, from legal perspectives, are treated differently, with different
rules by different people.

-------
* The people at Gitmo are "unlawful enemy combatants" in the same category
as spies, guerrillas, saboteurs, fifth-columnists, etc. Under the customary
rules of war, they can be summarily executed.

Tim Daneliuk wrote:

The tragedy here is that the Hopeium smokers still don't get what an incredible
menace this guy is. It's what happens when the adults don't pay attention
and drunks, drug addicts, and intellectual children control the vote...

As opposed to the borderline illiterate, Born Again, ex- cocaine and
alcohol
abuser, oblivious of the world around him, borderline moron, Deer In
The
Headlights guy that the REAL Americans voted into the office last
time?

Or the Air Head that the same folks rallied behind as the vice
presidential
candidate for their party? (I've got plenty of foreing policy
experience
- because I can SEE Russia from parts of MY state).

Damn LRod, this oughta stir up the dumb asses.

....and they've been so quiet for the last hundred days, or so...




On Fri, 01 May 2009 19:11:40 +0000, LRod wrote:


My nomination for Obama to place on the Supreme Court?

Hillary Clinton.

Just think of the permanent apoplexy that would throw Rush,
Sean, Bill O'R, Ann, and any of your conservative
acquaintances into.

Any old body can be SecState. Heck, get Madeline Albright
back. This is too good an opportunity to miss.

You heard it here first.


Let the sniping begin.
Regards,

Tom Watson
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

Tim Daneliuk wrote:

evodawg wrote:
SNIP

The right to watch my right to bare arms disappear.

The *******! I knew he want to pillage my right to bear arms, but
now I have to wear long-sleeved shirts too!!!!


bare/bear whatever. All I know is you better wear long sleeves and long
pants to wade through all the bull **** that's coming down the pike.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/

Lew Hodgett wrote:

"evodawg" wrote:

What right did you lose? Let me count the rights I'm about to lose
under the
Messiah.

snip a litney of gov't services evodawg will accept but just does not
want to pay for them.

If the world is to survive, it requires organized societies.

To have organized societies requires government.

Government costs money, in the USA, some where around 35%-38% of GDP,
same as it was in the late 40's when I heard this same rhetoric as a
kid growing up.

Other countries either have similar or higher rates.

So basically, sit down, bitch for a while, it's the American way, then
shut up and write out the check, mail it and have a beer.

Lew
who the **** are you to tell me to shut up? You might be willing to take it
up the ass like the rest of the sheep. Cut Government spending instead of
expanding it, you ignorant pinhead... Was that clear enough?
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/

CC wrote:
"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...

Like Bush really cared about the Constitution while taking away our
rights
over the last 8 years
CC

What rights were taken away?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
My right to privacy with the NSA wire tapping through AT&T and any
other
provider, Be it telephone, internet, or any other way of ease dropping
they wanted.
And it was not just only all US - overseas. Next is their ability to
deny your rights to due process
if they "think" or want to label you as a terrorist, doesn't matter if
you are or not, just what they want
to say you are to be able to restrain you

Not according to the Supreme Court.

Lew Hodgett wrote:

"-MIKE-" wrote:

What rights were taken away?

The right to look in the mirror each morning and be proud to be an
American rather than to be discusted at doing nothing to try to stop
what happened from 2000 thru 2008.

Lew
I'm discusted tooooo! I enjoyed the last eight years. Very profitable for
me. Lets see how you feel in 4 years, unless of course youre married to
this guy... Id rather have big business, then big Government
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/

Lew Hodgett wrote:
"evodawg" wrote:

What right did you lose? Let me count the rights I'm about to lose
under the
Messiah.

snip a litney of gov't services evodawg will accept but just does not
want to pay for them.

If the world is to survive, it requires organized societies.

To have organized societies requires government.

Government costs money, in the USA, some where around 35%-38% of GDP,
same as it was in the late 40's when I heard this same rhetoric as a
kid growing up.

Other countries either have similar or higher rates.

So basically, sit down, bitch for a while, it's the American way, then
shut up and write out the check, mail it and have a beer.

And if any king had imposed taxes at that level he'd have been overthrown.

Robatoy wrote:

On May 1, 6:20Â*pm, -MIKE- wrote:
Like Bush really cared about the Constitution while taking away our
rights over the last 8 years
CC

What rights were taken away?


The right to walk with your head held high...anywhere on this planet.
hmmmm, I have no problem with walking with my head up high, sounds like a
personal problem. You mean to tell me a president would have something to
do with your self esteem?
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/

"evodawg" wrote:

who the **** are you to tell me to shut up?

Sounds like a personal problem to me.

Lew

charlieb wrote:

Tim Daneliuk wrote:

The tragedy here is that the Hopeium smokers still don't get what an
incredible
menace this guy is. It's what happens when the adults don't pay
attention and drunks, drug addicts, and intellectual children control the
vote...

As opposed to the borderline illiterate, Born Again, ex- cocaine and
alcohol
abuser, oblivious of the world around him, borderline moron, Deer In
The
Headlights guy that the REAL Americans voted into the office last
time?

Or the Air Head that the same folks rallied behind as the vice
presidential
candidate for their party? (I've got plenty of foreing policy
experience
- because I can SEE Russia from parts of MY state).

But wait now we have a Community Organizer as the Commander and Chief. Give
me a ****ing break!! Lets not forget an idiot every time he opens his mouth
he shoves his own foot in it. Wonder who that would be?

--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/

"Tom Watson" wrote:

Damn LRod, this oughta stir up the dumb asses.

...and they've been so quiet for the last hundred days, or so...

Hell Tom, not many of them left these days, just look at what your
senator did.

Good grief, Strom Thurman and his State's Right Dixiecrats had a
bigger coalition in 1948 than the Republicans have today with their
hard right ideology.

Lew


..

-MIKE- wrote:

CC wrote:

Like Bush really cared about the Constitution while taking away our
rights
over the last 8 years
CC

What rights were taken away?

My right to privacy with the NSA wire tapping through AT&T and any other
provider, Be it telephone, internet, or any other way of ease dropping
they wanted.
And it was not just only all US - overseas. Next is their ability to
deny your rights to due process
if they "think" or want to label you as a terrorist, doesn't matter if
you are or not, just what they want
to say you are to be able to restrain you
CC


For the sake of debate, I'll stipulate that these "rights" have been
been denied you.

Obama has been in office with a Democratic controlled House and Senate
for over 100 days.

Have these rights been returned to you?


Perfectly said!!!
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/

charlieb wrote:
Tim Daneliuk wrote:

He should just go ahead and select someone from the leadership
of the Communist Party USA. He has all the votes he needs, why
bother with even the slightest pretense of caring for the
Constitution any longer...

. . . since the last administration already did most of it in anyway?
(torture, pre-emptive war, wire tapping without warrants, presidential
"signings" that allowed violating existing laws - with impunity,
Alberto
Gonzales, ...)

And they were able to do these things *legally* courtesy of the half
dozen presidents before them. Most of what is in Patriot was already
written into law under the guise of "The War On Drugs". W merely
appropriated it for the "War On Terrrah". But you W haters don't
get that. In fact, it's become a hobby to hate him for things he
either didn't do, did legally, or had ample precedent for. I'm not
defending *him* (since I mostly oppose government meddling in things
like sex and drugs and rock-n-roll), I'm making fun of you for being
so gullible and falling for the Dems line of B.S...

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk
PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/

Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Tom Watson" wrote:

Damn LRod, this oughta stir up the dumb asses.

...and they've been so quiet for the last hundred days, or so...

Hell Tom, not many of them left these days, just look at what your
senator did.

Good grief, Strom Thurman and his State's Right Dixiecrats had a
bigger coalition in 1948 than the Republicans have today with their
hard right ideology.

Lew

I want some of what you're smoking, I don't care if it's illegal.
The Repuglicans as a party as very far away from anything resembling
"Far Right". They seem to be the party of no ideas, no principles,
no energy, and no future because they've systematically disassembled
their core that believes in limited government and personal responsibility.


--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk
PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/

charlieb wrote:
Tim Daneliuk wrote:

The tragedy here is that the Hopeium smokers still don't get what an incredible
menace this guy is. It's what happens when the adults don't pay attention
and drunks, drug addicts, and intellectual children control the vote...

As opposed to the borderline illiterate, Born Again, ex- cocaine and
alcohol
abuser, oblivious of the world around him, borderline moron, Deer In
The
Headlights guy that the REAL Americans voted into the office last
time?

Or the Air Head that the same folks rallied behind as the vice
presidential
candidate for their party? (I've got plenty of foreing policy
experience
- because I can SEE Russia from parts of MY state).

Even if it were true as written (and it's not, it's an exaggeration for
effect), W would still be an order of magnitude less malignant than
the ObamaSavior...

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk
PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/

I thought all REAL Americans had left the country already! They thought that
Bush the drunk, drug addict, and intellectual child was GOOD. at least the
drug addict Rush is still here .Obama is not the bogyman, wither you agree
with him or not and more than half the country does(he the one who was
elected). please just get over it Just remember the Most important branch of
government is the legislature not the president and they are Our direct
representatives and If you do not like what THEY are doing vote them out!

My spouse is from communist china and as soon a she heard Mr. Bush back in
2000 she thought HE was the communist and totaltairan ,so go figure


Leonard

CC wrote:


"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...

Like Bush really cared about the Constitution while taking away our
rights
over the last 8 years
CC

What rights were taken away?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
My right to privacy with the NSA wire tapping through AT&T and any
other
provider, Be it telephone, internet, or any other way of ease dropping
they wanted.
And it was not just only all US - overseas. Next is their ability to
deny your rights to due process

Ummm, actually it was *only* calls from the US to an overseas number that
had been identified as linked to terrorists. It always amuses me when the
left was bleating about this loss of "privacy" when many of those people so
bleating have no qualms about loudly carrying on cell phone conversations
in public regardless of how personal the subject.


In this case, you lost zero rights as opposed to the rights that the
current administration is no kidding taking away:
The rights of contract law in which a judge can set aside a contract and
force a lender to alter the *principal* amount of a loan. Any idea how
hard it would be to get a mortgage in the future if this happens? (Good
news is that even the Senate wasn't stupid enough to go along with this and
defeated it today 51-45 -- but that 45 is scary).

The right to make whatever your employer thinks you are worth. Right now,
it's bank CEO's and employees. The administration has said that it also
wants to impose the same kinds of rules on companies that have not taken
federal money. Once they decide this for corporate officers, what's to
stop them from deciding what *you* are supposed to be making?

The administration has made no bones about looking at ways to abridge the
second amendment and take away the right to keep and bear arms.

If you are concerned about loss of privacy in cell phone or internet
communications, I would think you would really be concerned about loss of
privacy with the proposed health care database in which the fed will have
all of your health care records in their files.

if they "think" or want to label you as a terrorist, doesn't matter if
you are or not, just what they want
to say you are to be able to restrain you
CC

So then you are extremely outraged by the recently released Department of
Homeland Security memos that identified people who actually support a
constructionist interpretation of the Constitution as potential extremists?
And the extremist lexicon they just released that identifies those who
support federalism as extremists but fails to mention Islamic
fundamentalists? You are sufficiently outraged to demand that Napolitano
resign?





--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

On May 1, 9:40*pm, charlieb wrote:
Tim Daneliuk wrote:
The tragedy here is that the Hopeium smokers still don't get what an incredible
menace this guy is. *It's what happens when the adults don't pay attention
and drunks, drug addicts, and intellectual children control the vote...

* * As opposed to the borderline illiterate, Born Again, ex- cocaine and
alcohol
* * abuser, oblivious of the world around him, borderline moron, Deer In
The
* * Headlights guy that the REAL Americans voted into the office last
time?

* * Or the Air Head that the same folks rallied behind as the vice
presidential
* * candidate for their party? *(I've got plenty of foreing policy
experience
* * - because I can SEE Russia from parts of MY state).

MY reaction to Sarah Palin is the desire to slap her on the ass and
ask her "WHO's your daddy?"
I don't care what anybody says, she is totally schtuppable.

Nice catch! LOL

Lew Hodgett wrote:

"-MIKE-" wrote:

What rights were taken away?

The right to look in the mirror each morning and be proud to be an
American rather than to be discusted at doing nothing to try to stop
what happened from 2000 thru 2008.

Lew

That is one of the most asinine statements that the left mutters. What
exactly made things so bad from 2000 to 2008? The fact you got to keep
more of your money instead of paying it in taxes? EVERYBODY got a tax cut,
not just the wealthy few despite the continued mouthings of the left to the
contrary. The fact that the US actually took the fight to terrorists and
terrorist supporting countries after 40 years of letting crap happen and
then issuing strongly worded condemnations? The fact that the US had the
lowest unemployment rates in history during that time, dipping below the 5%
that was considered to be full employment? The fact that the US economy
recovered spectacularly following 9/11 despite the shock upon our financial
system?


Or was it simply the fact that France hated the US during that time?
Hint: they still ain't happy with us despite the fact that The One was
elected.

--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

On May 2, 12:42*am, Mark & Juanita wrote:
Lew Hodgett wrote:
"-MIKE-" wrote:

What rights were taken away?

The right to look in the mirror each morning and be proud to be an
American rather than to be discusted at doing nothing to try to stop
what happened from 2000 thru 2008.

Lew

* That is one of the most asinine statements that the left mutters. *What
exactly made things so bad from 2000 to 2008? *The fact you got to keep
more of your money instead of paying it in taxes? *EVERYBODY got a tax cut,
not just the wealthy few despite the continued mouthings of the left to the
contrary. *The fact that the US actually took the fight to terrorists and
terrorist supporting countries after 40 years of letting crap happen and
then issuing strongly worded condemnations? *The fact that the US had the
lowest unemployment rates in history during that time, dipping below the 5%
that was considered to be full employment? *The fact that the US economy
recovered spectacularly following 9/11 despite the shock upon our financial
system?

* Or was it simply the fact that France hated the US during that time?
Hint: they still ain't happy with us despite the fact that The One was
elected.

--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

I just love your quotes from Apologists Weekly.

charlieb wrote:

Tim Daneliuk wrote:

The tragedy here is that the Hopeium smokers still don't get what an
incredible
menace this guy is. It's what happens when the adults don't pay
attention and drunks, drug addicts, and intellectual children control the
vote...

As opposed to the borderline illiterate, Born Again, ex- cocaine and
alcohol
abuser, oblivious of the world around him, borderline moron, Deer In
The
Headlights guy that the REAL Americans voted into the office last
time?

You mean the guy whose grades were higher than both Al Gore's and John
Kerry's (who served in Vietnam)?


Or the Air Head that the same folks rallied behind as the vice
presidential
candidate for their party? (I've got plenty of foreing policy
experience

You know, for someone who voted for a ticket with Joe Biden as the Vice
President, I would think you would have the intelligence to keep your head
low on that one. "Stand up Chuck! Oh, God, what am I saying? Everybody
stand up for Chuck!"


- because I can SEE Russia from parts of MY state).

Clue for the apparently clueless: the VP candidate didn't say that: Tina
Fey on SNL said that during a comedy skit.

They told me if I voted for McCain, I'd get an idiot for a vice president.
They were right.



--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

Tim Daneliuk wrote:

evodawg wrote:
Tom Veatch wrote:

On Fri, 01 May 2009 13:49:41 -0700, evodawg
wrote:

Remember him saying in a debate with Wolf Blixscreen, CNN he would
choose
someone with no legal qualifications, just an ordinary person. ...
Offered without further comment:

"President Barack Obama pledged Friday to name a Supreme Court justice
who combines "empathy and understanding" with an impeccable legal
background..."



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090501/...er_retiring_37

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA

He also said, "I will seek someone who understands that justice isn't
about some abstract legal theory or footnote in a case book." Abstract
Legal
Theory? Is he calling the Constitution Abstract? I'm wondering what he
thinks the Supreme Court does? Read footnotes in a case book?



He doesn't *care* what SCOTUS is supposed to do. He and his fellow
radicals are hellbent on retooling the country to get around the limits on
government
power imposed upon the Constitution. Step 1 - exploit every proximate
emergency
to create a greater and greater roll for the snoopy Feds. Step 2 -
Overplay, exaggerate, and outright invent "crises" as needed such as
Climate Change, Healthcare access, the current piggie flu (which, to be
fair, should be
affecting more Liberals than anyone), and so forth. Step 3 - Rewrite the
Constitution implicitly by appointing SCOTUS judges that will just make
it up as they go along.

Welcome to Soviet America...



Yep, exactly the reason that the founders established the limits on
government that were set in the Constitution. Now this bunch wants to
circumvent those limits and too many of the American people are willing to
go along with that.



--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

Tom Watson wrote:

Damn LRod, this oughta stir up the dumb asses.

...and they've been so quiet for the last hundred days, or so...


Well, it looks like you've come out of the woodwork on this one, so it
apparently worked.




On Fri, 01 May 2009 19:11:40 +0000, LRod wrote:


My nomination for Obama to place on the Supreme Court?

Hillary Clinton.

Just think of the permanent apoplexy that would throw Rush,
Sean, Bill O'R, Ann, and any of your conservative
acquaintances into.

Any old body can be SecState. Heck, get Madeline Albright
back. This is too good an opportunity to miss.

You heard it here first.


Let the sniping begin.
Regards,

Tom Watson
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

"Tim Daneliuk" wrote in message
like sex and drugs and rock-n-roll), I'm making fun of you for being
so gullible and falling for the Dems line of B.S...

Yeah, but it's much more fun to criticise loser freaks like you who have no
life whatsoever. You're completely gone where there's any discussion about
woodworking, but as soon as there's a thread on something political or how
the system is costing you, you're back here with a vengeance. Twelve
messages within the space of a few hours.

That's your total existence. Whine, whine, whine, sleep a bit and whine some
more. Pretty damned pathetic in any venue.

Yeah Miller, you lying asshole, I'm here insulting someone again. Funny
though, how it's usually you and Daneliuk that are on the receiving end?

On May 2, 12:49*am, Mark & Juanita wrote:
charlieb wrote:
Tim Daneliuk wrote:

The tragedy here is that the Hopeium smokers still don't get what an
incredible
menace this guy is. *It's what happens when the adults don't pay
attention and drunks, drug addicts, and intellectual children control the
vote...

* * As opposed to the borderline illiterate, Born Again, ex- cocaine and
alcohol
* * abuser, oblivious of the world around him, borderline moron, Deer In
The
* * Headlights guy that the REAL Americans voted into the office last
time?

* You mean the guy whose grades were higher than both Al Gore's and John
Kerry's (who served in Vietnam)?



* * Or the Air Head that the same folks rallied behind as the vice
presidential
* * candidate for their party? *(I've got plenty of foreing policy
experience

* You know, for someone who voted for a ticket with Joe Biden as the Vice
President, I would think you would have the intelligence to keep your head
low on that one. *"Stand up Chuck! *Oh, God, what am I saying? *Everybody
stand up for Chuck!" *

* * - because I can SEE Russia from parts of MY state).

* Clue for the apparently clueless: *the VP candidate didn't say that: Tina
Fey on SNL said that during a comedy skit.

* They told me if I voted for McCain, I'd get an idiot for a vice president.
They were right.


If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

"GIBSON: What insight into Russian actions, particularly in the last
couple of weeks, does the proximity of the state give you?

PALIN: They're our next door neighbors and you can actually see Russia
from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska.

THAT was her take on foreign affairs.

Robatoy wrote:
"GIBSON: What insight into Russian actions, particularly in the last
couple of weeks, does the proximity of the state give you?

PALIN: They're our next door neighbors and you can actually see Russia
from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska.

THAT was her take on foreign affairs.


Maybe if she read everything someone else researched and wrote for her
off the teleprompter, like the guy who got elected, she'd have done better.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Tim Daneliuk wrote:

(speaking of the Republican Party)

They seem to be the party of no ideas, no principles, no energy, and
no future because they've systematically disassembled their core that
believes in limited government and personal responsibility.

As used as I've become to automatically disagreeing with you, I have to
admit that I share this perception.

I'm not sure that there's actually been a systematic disassembly, and
I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and say that they seem
to have lost sight of their principles - and without that common
foundation, seem unable to produce ideas about which they can reach
consensus, and without ideas to which the general electorate can say:
"Yes!" they have no energy and no political traction.

If you're a believer in personal responsibility (here it comes round
again - wait for it...) let me encourage you to involve yourself in the
process of identifying and advocating for those who /do/ have the
principles, who /can/ produce ideas that unify people in their support.

Get 'em on the ballot - 'cause if you don't, someone else will be
(re)elected. Time's already running short...

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Len wrote:

My spouse is from communist china and as soon a she heard Mr. Bush back in
2000 she thought HE was the communist and totaltairan ,so go figure

Heh! What would /she/ know? ;-)

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

-MIKE- wrote:
Robatoy wrote:
"GIBSON: What insight into Russian actions, particularly in the last
couple of weeks, does the proximity of the state give you?

PALIN: They're our next door neighbors and you can actually see Russia
from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska.

THAT was her take on foreign affairs.

Maybe if she read everything someone else researched and wrote for her
off the teleprompter, like the guy who got elected, she'd have done better.

That would depend on who she chose to do the writing, yes?

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Morris Dovey wrote:
Tim Daneliuk wrote:

(speaking of the Republican Party)

They seem to be the party of no ideas, no principles, no energy, and
no future because they've systematically disassembled their core that
believes in limited government and personal responsibility.

As used as I've become to automatically disagreeing with you, I have to
admit that I share this perception.

I'm not sure that there's actually been a systematic disassembly, and
I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and say that they seem
to have lost sight of their principles - and without that common
foundation, seem unable to produce ideas about which they can reach
consensus, and without ideas to which the general electorate can say:
"Yes!" they have no energy and no political traction.

It was systematic in the sense that winning elections became more
important than defending principle. What good is having office if
there is no coherent philosophical structure to animate what to
do once you're there. This party that claims to preserve personal
liberty, for example, has been only too happy to go after all manner
of things that are and ought to remain private (for adults): drugs,
end-of-life decisions, gay marriage and so on. It is just about
literally true that while the Republicans had a collective meltdown
about what the word "marriage" means were simultaneously ceding
control of the nation to a bunch of radical sewer rats. The party
that claimed a strict "originalist" view of the Constitution and
thus argued for strong states' rights, was only too happy to trot off
to SCOTUS in Schiavo case when Florida didn't give them the answer they
wanted. The list is almost endless and nauseating but it boils down
to this: You either stand on principle or you fall over loudly -
they've fallen and can't get up. Those of us - that diminishing
bunch of us - that actually think the Constitution means what it
says and what is says is very good are now left with a republic in
shambles, a shameless demagogue in the Oval Office, and the most
inherently corrupt, dishonest, and self-serving congressional leaders
in the last 100 years.


If you're a believer in personal responsibility (here it comes round
again - wait for it...) let me encourage you to involve yourself in the
process of identifying and advocating for those who /do/ have the
principles, who /can/ produce ideas that unify people in their support.

Get 'em on the ballot - 'cause if you don't, someone else will be
(re)elected. Time's already running short...


I have and I do ... but the central problem here is not really the political
parties, it's the greedy public. You cannot have meaningful and healthy
politics when half the population lives off the other half and wants even
more. I have contempt for the Republicans because they have opened the door
for the cesspool currently in power, but, in the end, it was the public
that brought this upon themselves. Absent a holistic and countrywide
return to personal responsibility, our republic is doomed. If and when
such a day happens, people like Ron Paul and Chuck Hagel will lead.
In the mean time, we shall all preside over the destruction of our
liberty, future, and possibilities.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk
PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/

Robatoy wrote:
On May 2, 12:49 am, Mark & Juanita wrote:
charlieb wrote:
Tim Daneliuk wrote:
The tragedy here is that the Hopeium smokers still don't get what an
incredible
menace this guy is. It's what happens when the adults don't pay
attention and drunks, drug addicts, and intellectual children control the
vote...
As opposed to the borderline illiterate, Born Again, ex- cocaine and
alcohol
abuser, oblivious of the world around him, borderline moron, Deer In
The
Headlights guy that the REAL Americans voted into the office last
time?
You mean the guy whose grades were higher than both Al Gore's and John
Kerry's (who served in Vietnam)?



Or the Air Head that the same folks rallied behind as the vice
presidential
candidate for their party? (I've got plenty of foreing policy
experience
You know, for someone who voted for a ticket with Joe Biden as the Vice
President, I would think you would have the intelligence to keep your head
low on that one. "Stand up Chuck! Oh, God, what am I saying? Everybody
stand up for Chuck!"

- because I can SEE Russia from parts of MY state).
Clue for the apparently clueless: the VP candidate didn't say that: Tina
Fey on SNL said that during a comedy skit.

They told me if I voted for McCain, I'd get an idiot for a vice president.
They were right.


If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

"GIBSON: What insight into Russian actions, particularly in the last
couple of weeks, does the proximity of the state give you?

PALIN: They're our next door neighbors and you can actually see Russia
from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska.

THAT was her take on foreign affairs.

THAT was the take her handlers permitted.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk
PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/

Mark & Juanita wrote:

That is one of the most asinine statements that the left mutters.
What exactly made things so bad from 2000 to 2008?

Hmm, I was in San Jose debugging silicon for a cable modem and working
with a bunch of H1B types from south Asia when Chairman Greenspan
announced his intention to "cool the tech sector". Over the next month I
watched more than 2500 newly incomeless families move out of my
apartment complex before I joined them.

It was a bit wrenching for the H1B folks too, they had to take their
jobs back to New Delhi and Mumbai where they worked harder and for less,
but /they/ had the jobs and we did not.

Suggested research: who voted for the legislation that allowed US
companies to replace currently employed Americans with less qualified
(but much cheaper) Asians?

The fact you got to keep more of your money instead of paying it in
taxes? EVERYBODY got a tax cut, not just the wealthy few despite the
continued mouthings of the left to the contrary.

You may not have noticed, but those tax cuts didn't do much for the
folks whose jobs went swimming across the Pacific. Of course, neither
did we pay taxes on no income.

The fact that the US actually took the fight to terrorists and
terrorist supporting countries after 40 years of letting crap happen
and then issuing strongly worded condemnations?

A masterful stroke that. An invasion plan without a success contingency.
We succeeded in cutting the European petroleum supply by something like
20%, which trashed European economies and resulted in making the
Europeans dependent on Gazprom (but it did produce a windfall in wealth
and clout for the Russian Federation) which persists to this day.

On the grounds that it was a US theater of action, we closed the door to
European (and other) countries who wanted to help with the much-needed
reconstruction, and handed out non-competitive construction contracts to
US firms with close ties to top administration officials.

AIUI, Baghdad /still/ doesn't have electricity and a working water
supply 24/7, and the US has managed to kill many times more innocents
than Al Qaida. Which reminds me to ask: "Where /is/ Osama Bin Laden
days? Will he be vacationing in the Swat Valley area?"

I wish you could tell me (and I could believe) that what we did has put
an end to "letting crap happen". AFAICT, we just stirred it around and,
in the process, got a lot on ourselves.

The fact that the US had the lowest unemployment rates in history
during that time, dipping below the 5% that was considered to be full
employment?

Super-size that, sir?

The fact that the US economy recovered spectacularly following 9/11
despite the shock upon our financial system?

Did you notice how many Yuan that took? Spectacular, indeed!

Or was it simply the fact that France hated the US during that time?
Hint: they still ain't happy with us despite the fact that The One
was elected.

If the French came to hate us, it was /after/ October 2001. I suspect
that if they caused /our/ petroleum supply to drop by as much as we
caused theirs to drop, we wouldn't be very happy with them (or with
paying a /lot/ more than $4/gallon for gas).

Awfully unreasonable of them, don't you think?

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tim Daneliuk
PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/


Like Bush really cared about the Constitution while taking away our rights
over the last 8 years
CC

Please name one right "Bush took away from us". I was no fan of W's,
but a lot of what gets blamed on him was either: a) Already set in
precedent courtesy of the insane "War On Drugs", "War On Poverty",
"War On Illiteracy", and so on (each of which gave the nosy Feds
more and more power over the individual) or b) A removal of "rights"
from foreign invaders, none of who have a legitimate claim to our
protections under civil or criminal law.


How about the suspension of Habeas Corpus or the expansion of the
Border Patrol's powers in the "Constitution-Free Zone"? I live more
than a thousand miles from Mexico, but I am subject to arbitrary stop
and search because I live in this zone. We don't need to go into the
issue of torture, do we? I suppose that's not a violation of human
rights.

Bill

In article , Morris Dovey wrote:

Suggested research: who voted for the legislation that allowed US
companies to replace currently employed Americans with less qualified
(but much cheaper) Asians?

Why should an employer not be able to hire whomever he pleases, at whatever
rate is agreeable to both employer and employee?

On May 2, 1:16*am, -MIKE- wrote:
Robatoy wrote:
"GIBSON: What insight into Russian actions, particularly in the last
couple of weeks, does the proximity of the state give you?

PALIN: They're our next door neighbors and you can actually see Russia
from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska.

THAT was her take on foreign affairs.

Maybe if she read everything someone else researched and wrote for her
off the teleprompter, like the guy who got elected, she'd have done better.

On Fri, 1 May 2009 21:40:29 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
wrote:

Nice catch! LOL

More than I'd hoped for. I got wore out throwing Timbo back.

My work here is done.



--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net
http://www.normstools.com

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.

On May 2, 2:11*am, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
Robatoy wrote:
On May 2, 12:49 am, Mark & Juanita wrote:
charlieb wrote:
Tim Daneliuk wrote:
The tragedy here is that the Hopeium smokers still don't get what an
incredible
menace this guy is. *It's what happens when the adults don't pay
attention and drunks, drug addicts, and intellectual children control the
vote...
* * As opposed to the borderline illiterate, Born Again, ex- cocaine and
alcohol
* * abuser, oblivious of the world around him, borderline moron, Deer In
The
* * Headlights guy that the REAL Americans voted into the office last
time?
* You mean the guy whose grades were higher than both Al Gore's and John
Kerry's (who served in Vietnam)?

* * Or the Air Head that the same folks rallied behind as the vice
presidential
* * candidate for their party? *(I've got plenty of foreing policy
experience
* You know, for someone who voted for a ticket with Joe Biden as the Vice
President, I would think you would have the intelligence to keep your head
low on that one. *"Stand up Chuck! *Oh, God, what am I saying? *Everybody
stand up for Chuck!" *

* * - because I can SEE Russia from parts of MY state).
* Clue for the apparently clueless: *the VP candidate didn't say that: Tina
Fey on SNL said that during a comedy skit.

* They told me if I voted for McCain, I'd get an idiot for a vice president.
They were right.

If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

"GIBSON: What insight into Russian actions, particularly in the last
couple of weeks, does the proximity of the state give you?

PALIN: They're our next door neighbors and you can actually see Russia
from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska.

THAT was her take on foreign affairs.

THAT was the take her handlers permitted.

Weak, Tim. Weak, even for you.