your point being that the chisels I bought are "paring"? I thought what
I got were bench chisels. certainly not firmer or mortise, but just as
certain they aren't paring, either.

dave

wrote:

Bay Area Dave wrote:

I used a dead blow mallet


wrote:

I saw that, but that wasn't what I was saying. I never mentioned what
to hit them with


Still missing my point. Sigh
Dave in Fairfax

perhaps you should read this before you condemn me for using a mallet.

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/w00116.asp


dave

wrote:

Bay Area Dave wrote:

I used a dead blow mallet


wrote:

I saw that, but that wasn't what I was saying. I never mentioned what
to hit them with


Still missing my point. Sigh
Dave in Fairfax

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/w00116.asp

I bought bench chisels. this webpage says what you can use them for.

dave

Conan The Librarian wrote:

Bay Area Dave wrote:

No they weren't mortising chisels. But they have a metal top,
mentioned on the package as being able to withstand mallet blows and
the "occasional" hammer blow! Besides, if I were to want to make a
hinge mortise, I can't believe I need to use a beefy mortising chisel
instead of a bench chisel.


You use a hammer on your chisels when cutting hinge mortises?


Chuck Vance
Just say (tmPL) Well, that explains a lot.

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 12:25:46 GMT, "Mike in Mystic"
wrote:


They are MUCH higher quality than the Marples, and for $100, I think an even
better value.

Mike,
How flat was the back of the two cherries when you got them?
They look good, and I'm thinking of picking some up myself.

Thanks,
Barry

I spent a fair amount of time flattening them with some 150 grit wet/dry
sandpaper. I didn't time it exactly, but let's just say it took more than
30 seconds but less than 5 minutes. As these things go, I'd say that they
were pretty flat right out of the box. Keep in mind, I only flattened the
1-2 inches right near the edge.

Mike

"B a r r y B u r k e J r ." wrote
in message ...
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 12:25:46 GMT, "Mike in Mystic"
wrote:


They are MUCH higher quality than the Marples, and for $100, I think an
even
better value.

Mike,
How flat was the back of the two cherries when you got them?
They look good, and I'm thinking of picking some up myself.

Thanks,
Barry

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 21:25:05 GMT, "Mike in Mystic"
wrote:

I spent a fair amount of time flattening them with some 150 grit wet/dry
sandpaper. I didn't time it exactly, but let's just say it took more than
30 seconds but less than 5 minutes. As these things go, I'd say that they
were pretty flat right out of the box.

Sounds like that to me, as well.

Keep in mind, I only flattened the
1-2 inches right near the edge.

As is all you need to.

Thanks!
Barry

Most chisels tips have been de-tempered from the final grinding and
polishing processes at the factory.


"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
om...
you mean they are tipped with sh*t for steel but the rest of the tool is
better??

dave

blabla wrote:

Did you grind off the first 1/8" to get to the good steel? I've got
Buck,
Ashley Isles, Marples and they all are the ****s right out of the box.
Some
of the guys at the shop have 2 Cherries and they say thiers were good
right
out of the box, but I don't know if they were trying to chop oak or
something just as hard.

"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
m...

Chuck, did you miss the part where I mentioned that my old Sears chisel
performs the same cuts with nary a blemish?? I decimated the edge on
the Marples in just a few moments. I didn't even get past 3/16" deep
into the wood. That's pretty pathetic.

dave

Conan the Librarian wrote:

Bay Area Dave wrote in message

m...


I just picked up 3 Marples protouch chisels, wasted my time to sharpen
the 3/8" one and then proceeded to put chisel to wood; namely red oak.
Before getting more than 4 sides of a mortise started the chisel's
edge
was so nicked that I could see it without my reading glasses! That's
saying something. BTW, I sharpened it on 3 diamond stones and then up
to around 5k+ papers. I used the Lee Valley honing guide...

I've got a Sears chisel, 3/4" that holds an edge for quite a while.
What's up with these Marples?


Why were you using a standard bevel-edge chisel to chop mortises in
the first place?

FWIW, I've been using Blue Chips for several years now without any
real complaints. I also have some nicer chisels, but I've gotten
about what I expected from a $20 set of chisels.


Chuck Vance

Juergen Hannappel wrote...
Bay Area Dave writes:

wouldn't they be discolored? I use to harden chisels for automotive

Not necessarily, softening starts well before coloring (depending on
the steel type, of course).

They might not be discolored because oxidation colors are easily removed
by abrasion -- grinding, polishing, honing or other normal tool finishing
practices. They may also have been tempered in a controlled environment
(inert atmosphere or vacuum) that prevents the oxidation that causes the
coloring.

However, if heated in air, the tool steel used in Marples chisels will
certainly discolor before it softens beyond its intended use hardness. In
fact, it discolors if heated to its normal tempering temperature in an
oxygen-bearing atmosphere.

Jim

Bay Area Dave wrote:
your point being that the chisels I bought are "paring"? I thought what
I got were bench chisels. certainly not firmer or mortise, but just as
certain they aren't paring, either.

No what you got was a cross between a bench chisel and a butt chisel.
Both have bevel edges, Butt chisels tend to be shorter and are designed
for abuse. Bench chisels are more for clean-up type work, glue-lines,
stray trash on edges, things like that. In a pinch they can be used as
a paring chisel to clean up dadoes or dovetails, but they really aren't
as good as the longer and thinner paring chisels. Firmer chisels look
like Bench chisels but the sides are square to the faces, Mortise
chisels are thicker top to bottom than they are side to side, but are
also square to the faces. Does that help? Take a look on the net or in
an antique shop for a much better idea. Once you see them and can
handle them it'll be satori.

Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/

Bay Area Dave wrote:
perhaps you should read this before you condemn me for using a mallet.

You're making me crazy. I NEVER SAID THAT YOU SHOULDN'T USE A MALLET!
Paring chisels shouldn't be struck, bench chisels probably shouldn't be
but sometimes are butt chisels frequently are and mortising chisels must
be. Someone else told you not to strike chisels because of his
training, which I tend to agree with BTW but even he wouldn't tell you
not to strike a mortising chisel. What you have there is the *******
son of a butt and a bench chisel. Furthermore it isn't a great quality
chisel, that's why I said that I consigned them to my crappier jobs. I
believe in mallets, read the posts, I don't believe in hammers except
for nails. Before you get upset about what I've said, please make sure
that I said it.
Thenkew,
Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/

Knowing the kind of wood work that you do, I doubt it. I really was trying
to make a point to others.
I learned to use hand tools at Homestead Heritage and I use the techniques
they taught me along with other things I've picked up. I really am a duffer,
but occasionally I turn out something nice.
We all are more comfortable with the techniques we know, but that doesn't
mean one is necessarily better than others.
I would hesitate making something out of mesquite. I suppose I will have to
try. I make Shaker style candle boxes because it gives me practice in making
dovetails. The females in my family and acquaintances seem to appreciate
them, so the boxes never just sit around. Ladies it seems, really like
little boxes almost as much as young boys do. :-)
I wonder if I could do one using mesquite ? . . .


"Conan The Librarian" wrote in message
...

Your technique is probably better than mine.


Chuck Vance

on a number of occations I have run into this- the first few
sharpenings of a new chisel don't last. I assume that it has to do
with the manufacturers being a bit agressive about the initial
grinding of the bevel and cooking the temper right at the edge.



On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 18:39:19 GMT, "blabla" wrote:

Did you grind off the first 1/8" to get to the good steel? I've got Buck,
Ashley Isles, Marples and they all are the ****s right out of the box. Some
of the guys at the shop have 2 Cherries and they say thiers were good right
out of the box, but I don't know if they were trying to chop oak or
something just as hard.

"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
om...
Chuck, did you miss the part where I mentioned that my old Sears chisel
performs the same cuts with nary a blemish?? I decimated the edge on
the Marples in just a few moments. I didn't even get past 3/16" deep
into the wood. That's pretty pathetic.

dave

Conan the Librarian wrote:
Bay Area Dave wrote in message
om...


I just picked up 3 Marples protouch chisels, wasted my time to sharpen
the 3/8" one and then proceeded to put chisel to wood; namely red oak.
Before getting more than 4 sides of a mortise started the chisel's edge
was so nicked that I could see it without my reading glasses! That's
saying something. BTW, I sharpened it on 3 diamond stones and then up
to around 5k+ papers. I used the Lee Valley honing guide...

I've got a Sears chisel, 3/4" that holds an edge for quite a while.
What's up with these Marples?


Why were you using a standard bevel-edge chisel to chop mortises in
the first place?

FWIW, I've been using Blue Chips for several years now without any
real complaints. I also have some nicer chisels, but I've gotten
about what I expected from a $20 set of chisels.


Chuck Vance

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 16:57:22 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

Must be one hell of a hinge, if you have to chop a mortise 3/16" deep.

Why not ? Not unreasonable for an old cast iron hinge.

If I were using plastic-handled Marples chisels (which I would hope
not to be, as they're low-end rubbish) then I'd expect a light hammer
to be the appropriate thing to drive them, and I wouldn't worry too
much over the bevel-edge / mortice chisel distinction.

--
Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 16:57:22 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

Must be one hell of a hinge, if you have to chop a mortise 3/16" deep.


Yes, it would be one hell of a hinge and this would be the mark of a
hinge made by someone who gave a damn about how hinges should be made.

I've had the pleasure of working with a few mongers who grew such
hinges and they are a rare pleasure.


Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret)
Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet
Website: http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

This is really bumming me out. My Marples chisels ARE my good
chisels. I bought them to use instead of my Stanley's, which are
probably just as good.


--
The software said it ran under Windows 98/NT/2000, or better.
So I installed it on Linux...
"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
m...
Chuck, did you miss the part where I mentioned that my old Sears chisel
performs the same cuts with nary a blemish?? I decimated the edge on
the Marples in just a few moments. I didn't even get past 3/16" deep
into the wood. That's pretty pathetic.

dave

Conan the Librarian wrote:
Bay Area Dave wrote in message
m...


I just picked up 3 Marples protouch chisels, wasted my time to sharpen
the 3/8" one and then proceeded to put chisel to wood; namely red oak.
Before getting more than 4 sides of a mortise started the chisel's edge
was so nicked that I could see it without my reading glasses! That's
saying something. BTW, I sharpened it on 3 diamond stones and then up
to around 5k+ papers. I used the Lee Valley honing guide...

I've got a Sears chisel, 3/4" that holds an edge for quite a while.
What's up with these Marples?


Why were you using a standard bevel-edge chisel to chop mortises in
the first place?

FWIW, I've been using Blue Chips for several years now without any
real complaints. I also have some nicer chisels, but I've gotten
about what I expected from a $20 set of chisels.


Chuck Vance



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.566 / Virus Database: 357 - Release Date: 1/22/2004

sorry to drive you nuts, Dave! I THOUGHT you had said that I was
using a mallet on a chisel type that shouldn't be struck with one. If I
got you wrong, I'm sorry.

There IS the possibility that I got one really crappy sample of a
Marples chisel, too, and had I tried another it might have fared better.
In any event, it wouldn't work for MY intended purpose so it's just as
well that I returned it.

dave

wrote:
Bay Area Dave wrote:

perhaps you should read this before you condemn me for using a mallet.


You're making me crazy. I NEVER SAID THAT YOU SHOULDN'T USE A MALLET!
Paring chisels shouldn't be struck, bench chisels probably shouldn't be
but sometimes are butt chisels frequently are and mortising chisels must
be. Someone else told you not to strike chisels because of his
training, which I tend to agree with BTW but even he wouldn't tell you
not to strike a mortising chisel. What you have there is the *******
son of a butt and a bench chisel. Furthermore it isn't a great quality
chisel, that's why I said that I consigned them to my crappier jobs. I
believe in mallets, read the posts, I don't believe in hammers except
for nails. Before you get upset about what I've said, please make sure
that I said it.
Thenkew,
Dave in Fairfax

not to worry, David. the pundits here think it's MY fault the edge fell
apart. and I didn't get the Blue Chip chisels.

dave

David Binkowski wrote:

This is really bumming me out. My Marples chisels ARE my good
chisels. I bought them to use instead of my Stanley's, which are
probably just as good.

Interestingly, Robert, over in the woodturner's group, complained about
the Marples not holding an edge, AND he prefers his Sears chisels...

dave

Bay Area Dave wrote:

I just picked up 3 Marples protouch chisels, wasted my time to sharpen
the 3/8" one and then proceeded to put chisel to wood; namely red oak.
Before getting more than 4 sides of a mortise started the chisel's edge
was so nicked that I could see it without my reading glasses! That's
saying something. BTW, I sharpened it on 3 diamond stones and then up
to around 5k+ papers. I used the Lee Valley honing guide...

I've got a Sears chisel, 3/4" that holds an edge for quite a while.
What's up with these Marples?

dave

Bay Area Dave wrote:
sorry to drive you nuts, Dave! I THOUGHT you had said that I was
using a mallet on a chisel type that shouldn't be struck with one. If I
got you wrong, I'm sorry.
There IS the possibility that I got one really crappy sample of a
Marples chisel, too, and had I tried another it might have fared better.
In any event, it wouldn't work for MY intended purpose so it's just as
well that I returned it.

Fair enough. I've got a couple sets of the Blue chips and haven't had
any problems with them. From the responses it sounds like the quality
control is slipping and they turned out a bad batch. I've got an old st
of Bucks (mad in USA) that are nice too. Makes me wonder if the slip in
quality had to do with the Record or with Rubbermaid. Record's used to
metal, hmmm.
Dav in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/

"Lowell Holmes" wrote in message ...

Knowing the kind of wood work that you do, I doubt it. I really was trying
to make a point to others.
I learned to use hand tools at Homestead Heritage and I use the techniques
they taught me along with other things I've picked up. I really am a duffer,
but occasionally I turn out something nice.
We all are more comfortable with the techniques we know, but that doesn't
mean one is necessarily better than others.
I would hesitate making something out of mesquite. I suppose I will have to
try. I make Shaker style candle boxes because it gives me practice in making
dovetails. The females in my family and acquaintances seem to appreciate
them, so the boxes never just sit around. Ladies it seems, really like
little boxes almost as much as young boys do. :-)
I wonder if I could do one using mesquite ? . . .

I don't see why not. Mesquite is such a joy to work (well except
when you're working from a log and you've got to deal with all the
dirt that gets into the wormholes). It's dead stable, smells nice
when working, is hard but not splintery, and has just enough grain
reversals to keep things interesting. :-)

If you learned at Homestead Heritage, I daresay you've learned some
excellent technique and it's no accident that you turn out nice
things. Do you have any pics of your candle boxes? That might be
something fun to try as a gift for SWMBO. I think she's getting tired
of me giving her jewelry boxes. ;-)


Chuck Vance

Bay Area Dave wrote in message . com...

I wasn't intending to chop deep mortises without getting dedicated
mortising chisels, but what I'm trying to explain in this thread is that
by cutting into red oak four times less than 3/16" deep, for testing the
chisel, I found the edge destroyed. my Sears did the same thing and
came away none the worse for wear. I don't intended to use a beveled
edge chisel to chop inch deep mortises, but I should be able to tap the
chisel into the wood to "mark" it.

Fine. Buy Sears chisels then. Some of us will continue to use our
Marples chisels. And guess what? We will post about our own
experiences with them. And guess what? We might not agree with you.
Get used to it.

Thanks for the snide comment.

I'm glad you enjoyed it. I assumed that you must, seeing how often
you you beg for it.

I didn't say I had the Bluechip chisels. they are Protouch.

I know that. My mistake to include the words "Blue Chip" in my
previous post. But I have Blue Chips. And guess what? They're made
by the same company. And guess what? They perform about as well as I
would expect for a set that runs less than $30.

Again, you aren't reading my posts closely. I know, I know, my posts
don't deserve any attention...

Not nearly as much as you seem to think they do.


Chuck Vance

I can't buy Sears chisels in the sizes I want and who would expect them
to be the equivalent of their tools from 30 years ago anyway?

Peace, Chuck.

dave

Conan the Librarian wrote:

Bay Area Dave wrote in message . com...


I wasn't intending to chop deep mortises without getting dedicated
mortising chisels, but what I'm trying to explain in this thread is that
by cutting into red oak four times less than 3/16" deep, for testing the
chisel, I found the edge destroyed. my Sears did the same thing and
came away none the worse for wear. I don't intended to use a beveled
edge chisel to chop inch deep mortises, but I should be able to tap the
chisel into the wood to "mark" it.


Fine. Buy Sears chisels then. Some of us will continue to use our
Marples chisels. And guess what? We will post about our own
experiences with them. And guess what? We might not agree with you.
Get used to it.


Thanks for the snide comment.


I'm glad you enjoyed it. I assumed that you must, seeing how often
you you beg for it.


I didn't say I had the Bluechip chisels. they are Protouch.


I know that. My mistake to include the words "Blue Chip" in my
previous post. But I have Blue Chips. And guess what? They're made
by the same company. And guess what? They perform about as well as I
would expect for a set that runs less than $30.


Again, you aren't reading my posts closely. I know, I know, my posts
don't deserve any attention...


Not nearly as much as you seem to think they do.


Chuck Vance

I have been using blue chip for 30 years and am quite happy with the
product. My projects being rudimentary probably are not so demanding of my
chisels as they are of Dave's..

I suppose Marples must be either fooling a bunch of people or at least
producing an acceptable product, after all they have only been doing it for
a hundred years or so ....mjh

--




"Conan the Librarian" wrote in message
om...
Bay Area Dave wrote in message
. com...

I wasn't intending to chop deep mortises without getting dedicated
mortising chisels, but what I'm trying to explain in this thread is that
by cutting into red oak four times less than 3/16" deep, for testing the
chisel, I found the edge destroyed. my Sears did the same thing and
came away none the worse for wear. I don't intended to use a beveled
edge chisel to chop inch deep mortises, but I should be able to tap the
chisel into the wood to "mark" it.

Fine. Buy Sears chisels then. Some of us will continue to use our
Marples chisels. And guess what? We will post about our own
experiences with them. And guess what? We might not agree with you.
Get used to it.

Thanks for the snide comment.

I'm glad you enjoyed it. I assumed that you must, seeing how often
you you beg for it.

I didn't say I had the Bluechip chisels. they are Protouch.

I know that. My mistake to include the words "Blue Chip" in my
previous post. But I have Blue Chips. And guess what? They're made
by the same company. And guess what? They perform about as well as I
would expect for a set that runs less than $30.

Again, you aren't reading my posts closely. I know, I know, my posts
don't deserve any attention...

Not nearly as much as you seem to think they do.


Chuck Vance

perhaps the quality of the one ProTouch that I purchased isn't the same
as your 30 year old blue chips, Mike.

dave

Mike Hide wrote:

I have been using blue chip for 30 years and am quite happy with the
product. My projects being rudimentary probably are not so demanding of my
chisels as they are of Dave's..

I suppose Marples must be either fooling a bunch of people or at least
producing an acceptable product, after all they have only been doing it for
a hundred years or so ....mjh

--




"Conan the Librarian" wrote in message
om...

Bay Area Dave wrote in message

. com...

I wasn't intending to chop deep mortises without getting dedicated
mortising chisels, but what I'm trying to explain in this thread is that
by cutting into red oak four times less than 3/16" deep, for testing the
chisel, I found the edge destroyed. my Sears did the same thing and
came away none the worse for wear. I don't intended to use a beveled
edge chisel to chop inch deep mortises, but I should be able to tap the
chisel into the wood to "mark" it.

Fine. Buy Sears chisels then. Some of us will continue to use our
Marples chisels. And guess what? We will post about our own
experiences with them. And guess what? We might not agree with you.
Get used to it.


Thanks for the snide comment.

I'm glad you enjoyed it. I assumed that you must, seeing how often
you you beg for it.


I didn't say I had the Bluechip chisels. they are Protouch.

I know that. My mistake to include the words "Blue Chip" in my
previous post. But I have Blue Chips. And guess what? They're made
by the same company. And guess what? They perform about as well as I
would expect for a set that runs less than $30.


Again, you aren't reading my posts closely. I know, I know, my posts
don't deserve any attention...

Not nearly as much as you seem to think they do.


Chuck Vance

I was just looking through some old FWW mags and ran across an article on
chisels in the Dec/1999, issue 139. They looked at 17 different chisels and
tested their hardness and toughness. It might be worth looking at if you
have a copy although it's 4 years old now.

FWIW, they ranked the Marples Blue Chip as coming in 16th out of the 17
chisels tested, IOW almost dead last. Craftsman came in 9th. The chisels
that tested best for toughness were White Steel ($32 for a 1/2" chisel)
first, then Blue Steel ($38 for a 1/2" chisel), and in third was Iyori ($156
for a set of 4 chisels).

Double FWIW, the Craftsman rated better for toughness than Japan Woodworker
(10th), Garrett Wade (11th), Robert Sorby Gilt-Edge (12th), Lee Valley
(13th), Robert Sorby Octagonal (14th), Stanley 5002 (15th), Marples Blue
Chip (16th), and Pfeil (17th).

Again, this test is now 4 years old and they were only testing current
models of chisels and they didn't test all models (e.g. Marples Protech),
but maybe this helps explain why your Sears holds up better than your
Marples.

--
Larry C in Auburn, WA

"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
...
I just picked up 3 Marples protouch chisels, wasted my time to sharpen
the 3/8" one and then proceeded to put chisel to wood; namely red oak.
Before getting more than 4 sides of a mortise started the chisel's edge
was so nicked that I could see it without my reading glasses! That's
saying something. BTW, I sharpened it on 3 diamond stones and then up
to around 5k+ papers. I used the Lee Valley honing guide...

I've got a Sears chisel, 3/4" that holds an edge for quite a while.
What's up with these Marples?

dave

Bay Area Dave wrote...
perhaps the quality of the one ProTouch that I purchased isn't the same
as your 30 year old blue chips, Mike.

Tell you what, Dave. Send me your ProTouch chisel and I'll test it for
you. I am reasonably confident that a thorough examination of the
specific tool in question will reveal the reason it didn't perform well.
If it has a correctable problem, I'll fix it.

Either way, I'll return it to you. There's a very good chance the mystery
will be resolved, and you might even get a better tool back than you
bought. Although it is highly unlikely that I'll harm the tool in any
substantial way [1], if I do somehow manage to damage it, I'll gladly
repay you its purchase price.

See? There *is* such a thing as a free lunch. Well, you pay postage, ok?

Cheers!

Jim

[1] The hardness tester leaves a tiny dimple at the test point. I expect
to do that particular test in probably four or five places. It is
possible that I'll need to test the face (or do you call it the back?)
near the edge, in which case I'll restore that area to flat. Any other
test marks will be left behind, as they will not impair the tool's
function.

No but perhaps a bad batch may have got through inspection, If you are
dealing with a reputable supplier they will probably either exchange them or
give you uour money back. mjh

--




"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
. com...
perhaps the quality of the one ProTouch that I purchased isn't the same
as your 30 year old blue chips, Mike.

dave

Mike Hide wrote:

I have been using blue chip for 30 years and am quite happy with the
product. My projects being rudimentary probably are not so demanding of
my
chisels as they are of Dave's..

I suppose Marples must be either fooling a bunch of people or at least
producing an acceptable product, after all they have only been doing it
for
a hundred years or so ....mjh

--




"Conan the Librarian" wrote in message
om...

Bay Area Dave wrote in message

. com...

I wasn't intending to chop deep mortises without getting dedicated
mortising chisels, but what I'm trying to explain in this thread is
that
by cutting into red oak four times less than 3/16" deep, for testing
the
chisel, I found the edge destroyed. my Sears did the same thing and
came away none the worse for wear. I don't intended to use a beveled
edge chisel to chop inch deep mortises, but I should be able to tap the
chisel into the wood to "mark" it.

Fine. Buy Sears chisels then. Some of us will continue to use our
Marples chisels. And guess what? We will post about our own
experiences with them. And guess what? We might not agree with you.
Get used to it.


Thanks for the snide comment.

I'm glad you enjoyed it. I assumed that you must, seeing how often
you you beg for it.


I didn't say I had the Bluechip chisels. they are Protouch.

I know that. My mistake to include the words "Blue Chip" in my
previous post. But I have Blue Chips. And guess what? They're made
by the same company. And guess what? They perform about as well as I
would expect for a set that runs less than $30.


Again, you aren't reading my posts closely. I know, I know, my posts
don't deserve any attention...

Not nearly as much as you seem to think they do.


Chuck Vance

Larry, THANK YOU for this info! I started my subscription to FWW about
a year ago so that one isn't in my library. Nice to see that their test
ing bears out my very LIMITED experience with the Pro touch vs the one
Sears venerable chisel that has survived from the 70's.

Did they give a rating for "Best Buy"?

dave

Larry C in Auburn, WA wrote:

I was just looking through some old FWW mags and ran across an article on
chisels in the Dec/1999, issue 139. They looked at 17 different chisels and
tested their hardness and toughness. It might be worth looking at if you
have a copy although it's 4 years old now.

FWIW, they ranked the Marples Blue Chip as coming in 16th out of the 17
chisels tested, IOW almost dead last. Craftsman came in 9th. The chisels
that tested best for toughness were White Steel ($32 for a 1/2" chisel)
first, then Blue Steel ($38 for a 1/2" chisel), and in third was Iyori ($156
for a set of 4 chisels).

Double FWIW, the Craftsman rated better for toughness than Japan Woodworker
(10th), Garrett Wade (11th), Robert Sorby Gilt-Edge (12th), Lee Valley
(13th), Robert Sorby Octagonal (14th), Stanley 5002 (15th), Marples Blue
Chip (16th), and Pfeil (17th).

Again, this test is now 4 years old and they were only testing current
models of chisels and they didn't test all models (e.g. Marples Protech),
but maybe this helps explain why your Sears holds up better than your
Marples.

I'd send it to you, but I've gotten a refund on it already.

Nice try, Jim!

dave

Jim Wilson wrote:

Bay Area Dave wrote...

perhaps the quality of the one ProTouch that I purchased isn't the same
as your 30 year old blue chips, Mike.


Tell you what, Dave. Send me your ProTouch chisel and I'll test it for
you. I am reasonably confident that a thorough examination of the
specific tool in question will reveal the reason it didn't perform well.
If it has a correctable problem, I'll fix it.

Either way, I'll return it to you. There's a very good chance the mystery
will be resolved, and you might even get a better tool back than you
bought. Although it is highly unlikely that I'll harm the tool in any
substantial way [1], if I do somehow manage to damage it, I'll gladly
repay you its purchase price.

See? There *is* such a thing as a free lunch. Well, you pay postage, ok?

Cheers!

Jim

[1] The hardness tester leaves a tiny dimple at the test point. I expect
to do that particular test in probably four or five places. It is
possible that I'll need to test the face (or do you call it the back?)
near the edge, in which case I'll restore that area to flat. Any other
test marks will be left behind, as they will not impair the tool's
function.

Nope.

--
Larry C in Auburn, WA

"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
om...
Larry, THANK YOU for this info! I started my subscription to FWW about
a year ago so that one isn't in my library. Nice to see that their test
ing bears out my very LIMITED experience with the Pro touch vs the one
Sears venerable chisel that has survived from the 70's.

Did they give a rating for "Best Buy"?

dave

Larry C in Auburn, WA wrote:

I was just looking through some old FWW mags and ran across an article
on
chisels in the Dec/1999, issue 139. They looked at 17 different chisels
and
tested their hardness and toughness. It might be worth looking at if
you
have a copy although it's 4 years old now.

FWIW, they ranked the Marples Blue Chip as coming in 16th out of the 17
chisels tested, IOW almost dead last. Craftsman came in 9th. The
chisels
that tested best for toughness were White Steel ($32 for a 1/2" chisel)
first, then Blue Steel ($38 for a 1/2" chisel), and in third was Iyori
($156
for a set of 4 chisels).

Double FWIW, the Craftsman rated better for toughness than Japan
Woodworker
(10th), Garrett Wade (11th), Robert Sorby Gilt-Edge (12th), Lee Valley
(13th), Robert Sorby Octagonal (14th), Stanley 5002 (15th), Marples Blue
Chip (16th), and Pfeil (17th).

Again, this test is now 4 years old and they were only testing current
models of chisels and they didn't test all models (e.g. Marples
Protech),
but maybe this helps explain why your Sears holds up better than your
Marples.

While we are on the subject of Japanese chisels, has anyone tried that
set offered by Grizzly? From what you can tell in a catalog they look
and sound pretty good but the price seems too good to be true. Has
anyone out there taken the chance?

Thanks in advance,
Bill

--

"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are."
-Theodore Roosevelt


"Alan W" wrote in message
om...

Dave,
If you want some SERIOUS chisels, drive on up to Alameda, and visit
The
Japan Woodworker. Make certain you bring your high limit credit
card,
though. They are rightly proud of their tools.

On the other hand, your grandchildren will be trying to decide who
gets
them when you're gone....



I've been looking at just buying a couple of chisels from Japan
Woodworker. My limited set of 1/4, 1/2, and 1" of cheap stanleys have
seen only use of the smaller two. And they are better suited to glue
line scraping than mortising.

What does one need to spend on individual chisels to get a good
mortising chisel? $30 $50 $150?

Thanks for those who have used them.

Bay Area Dave wrote:

I'd send it to you, but I've gotten a refund on it already.

Nice try, Jim!

dave


In the event that anyone's unaware of who Jim Wilson is and
why Dave missed a great opportunity - Jim made the mortising
chisels Steve Knight carried. He's a tool maker and knows
his stuff. I recall that he's gotten back into making his
mortising chisels again after a hiatus. Can't find the new
url but here's his old one. Perhaps he'll provide his new
url

www.paragoncode.com/toolmaking/

I'm certain that when you got your chisel back it'd be
sharper than you could make it and the back would be
dead flat.

As for his mortising chisels - well you can try one out
when the lock miter joints are done

charlie b

In article ,
charlie b wrote:

In the event that anyone's unaware of who Jim Wilson is and
why Dave missed a great opportunity - Jim made the mortising
chisels Steve Knight carried. He's a tool maker and knows
his stuff. I recall that he's gotten back into making his
mortising chisels again after a hiatus.

I tried to order a set from him a couple of months ago. His response
was that he's back out again. He's finishing up the backlog of orders
he's got and not taking any new orders.

Yes, SWMBO gave me the set of 10 last Christmas. Before using them I
spent a little time sharpening them (using the scary sharp system).
Once I had put an edge on the 1" chisel, I used it to shave off some
end grain from a scrap of maple. Sweet! Now, I can't really compare
them to the Marples since these were my first chisels, but I can say
that after a year they are still a pleasure to use.

Ian

"Wm Gardner" wrote in message news:dLRQb.149168$na.246764@attbi_s04...
While we are on the subject of Japanese chisels, has anyone tried that
set offered by Grizzly? From what you can tell in a catalog they look
and sound pretty good but the price seems too good to be true. Has
anyone out there taken the chance?

Thanks in advance,
Bill

--

"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are."
-Theodore Roosevelt


"Alan W" wrote in message
om...

Dave,
If you want some SERIOUS chisels, drive on up to Alameda, and visit
The
Japan Woodworker. Make certain you bring your high limit credit
card,
though. They are rightly proud of their tools.

On the other hand, your grandchildren will be trying to decide who
gets
them when you're gone....



I've been looking at just buying a couple of chisels from Japan
Woodworker. My limited set of 1/4, 1/2, and 1" of cheap stanleys have
seen only use of the smaller two. And they are better suited to glue
line scraping than mortising.

What does one need to spend on individual chisels to get a good
mortising chisel? $30 $50 $150?

Thanks for those who have used them.

cool!

dave

charlie b wrote:

Bay Area Dave wrote:

I'd send it to you, but I've gotten a refund on it already.

Nice try, Jim!

dave



In the event that anyone's unaware of who Jim Wilson is and
why Dave missed a great opportunity - Jim made the mortising
chisels Steve Knight carried. He's a tool maker and knows
his stuff. I recall that he's gotten back into making his
mortising chisels again after a hiatus. Can't find the new
url but here's his old one. Perhaps he'll provide his new
url

www.paragoncode.com/toolmaking/

I'm certain that when you got your chisel back it'd be
sharper than you could make it and the back would be
dead flat.

As for his mortising chisels - well you can try one out
when the lock miter joints are done

charlie b

charlie b wrote...
In the event that anyone's unaware of who Jim Wilson is and
why Dave missed a great opportunity - Jim made the mortising
chisels Steve Knight carried. He's a tool maker and knows
his stuff. I recall that he's gotten back into making his
mortising chisels again after a hiatus.

Hi, Charlie, and thank you for your kind words!

Roy's right. I had to stop taking orders again in October. I was able to
get a few hundred chisels out over the summer but had to shut down soon
after, owing once again to lack of time. I sure love making tools, but
haven't yet been able to set aside enough time to it to keep pace with
demand. Unfortunately, I still have other commitments that prevent me
from devoting all my time to tool making. Perhaps someday...

Can't find the new
url but here's his old one. Perhaps he'll provide his new
url

www.paragoncode.com/toolmaking/

The pages are still intact, and that's as good a start point as any.
Folks interested in making their own chisels might find some useful
information. The mortise chisel pages start at

www.paragoncode.com/toolmaking/mortise_chisels

Cheers!

Jim

Thanks for the input Ian. Just had that phrase ("if is sounds too good
to be true.....") running around in my head. Better to hear of someone
else's experience.

Bill

--

"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are."
-Theodore Roosevelt


"Ian Dodd" wrote in message
om...
Yes, SWMBO gave me the set of 10 last Christmas. Before using them I
spent a little time sharpening them (using the scary sharp system).
Once I had put an edge on the 1" chisel, I used it to shave off some
end grain from a scrap of maple. Sweet! Now, I can't really compare
them to the Marples since these were my first chisels, but I can say
that after a year they are still a pleasure to use.

Ian

"Wm Gardner" wrote in message
news:dLRQb.149168$na.246764@attbi_s04...
While we are on the subject of Japanese chisels, has anyone tried
that
set offered by Grizzly? From what you can tell in a catalog they
look
and sound pretty good but the price seems too good to be true. Has
anyone out there taken the chance?

Thanks in advance,
Bill

--

"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are."
-Theodore Roosevelt


"Alan W" wrote in message
om...

Dave,
If you want some SERIOUS chisels, drive on up to Alameda, and
visit
The
Japan Woodworker. Make certain you bring your high limit credit
card,
though. They are rightly proud of their tools.

On the other hand, your grandchildren will be trying to decide
who
gets
them when you're gone....



I've been looking at just buying a couple of chisels from Japan
Woodworker. My limited set of 1/4, 1/2, and 1" of cheap stanleys
have
seen only use of the smaller two. And they are better suited to
glue
line scraping than mortising.

What does one need to spend on individual chisels to get a good
mortising chisel? $30 $50 $150?

Thanks for those who have used them.

"Jim Wilson" wrote in message
k.net...

Roy's right. I had to stop taking orders again in October. I was able to
get a few hundred chisels out over the summer but had to shut down soon
after, owing once again to lack of time. I sure love making tools, but
haven't yet been able to set aside enough time to it to keep pace with
demand. Unfortunately, I still have other commitments that prevent me
from devoting all my time to tool making. Perhaps someday...

If the demand is that great, why not do it full time?
No or low profit?

Myx

Myxylplyk wrote...
If the demand is that great, why not do it full time?
No or low profit?

Well, profit is controllable, and it could be used to moderate demand,
too, but income isn't the real issue for me. It's time.

In order to keep pace with demand and maintain control of the time spent
on tool making, I would have to change my methods a bit. I would need to
hire employees, subcontract parts, deal with vendors, purchase and use
more modern equipment and production methods, manage retail channels, and
so on. In short, I'd need to start running a company again.

Now, there's nothing wrong with running a company, if that's what you
want to spend your time doing, or if you are trying to earn an income.
It's a great way to make a living, especially if you are a hard-working
and diligent person. But it's not how I want to spend my days at this
point in my life. There are too many other things I'd rather do with the
time. One of them is making tools. (G)

One potential solution that I've been considering is to handle things
more like an art studio than a manufacturer. Instead of taking and
fulfilling orders for copies of tools that I've made in the past, I could
get back to making interesting and new (to me) things, perhaps filling
the occasional commission. I would like to keep the prices low enough
that my tools can be purchased by folks who will actually put them to
good use. Unfortunately, it's hard to do that in a cottage
industry, without giving things away.

Cheers!

Jim

Aw, cut the poor guy some slack for change.


--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland