I just picked up 3 Marples protouch chisels, wasted my time to sharpen
the 3/8" one and then proceeded to put chisel to wood; namely red oak.
Before getting more than 4 sides of a mortise started the chisel's edge
was so nicked that I could see it without my reading glasses! That's
saying something. BTW, I sharpened it on 3 diamond stones and then up
to around 5k+ papers. I used the Lee Valley honing guide...

I've got a Sears chisel, 3/4" that holds an edge for quite a while.
What's up with these Marples?

dave

"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
...
snippage
What's up with these Marples?

You need to get a Marple BlueChip chisel. They are the ones we all say are good.

Myx

I hope the steel is MUCH tougher in their other line. I can't believe
that my old sears chisel goes on and on with a sharp edge and I
literally wiped out the Marples edge (ground exactly the same way as the
Sears) in a few moments. I ran over to Sears to see what they have but
there are no 3/8" and they didn't have a separate 1/4" in stock so I'll
consider a better Marples or something else at Lee Valley.


Here is what one reviewer said about the Bluechips:
"
Don't be fooled. This chisels are not worth their price. I was given a
set two years ago. I never used them until three months ago. I was using
my old reliable set. I took this chisels out of the box and went to hone
them. Come to find out, the still is severly deformed. The facets are
totally out of place and you can not get a smooth bevel on
them---There's NO WAY you could double bevel these. I reground them
myself to as square as possible. No sooner than I did that, the half
inch chisel started breaking the corners! I did not blue the steel as I
use a Tormek sharpening system. Plus, I was using them without a
mallet---by hand! Cheap metal, cheap craftsmanship, poor quality! "

sounds like he had almost the same problem I did: the edge fell apart.

Other reviewers were more kind.

dave

dave

Myxylplyk wrote:

"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
...

snippage
What's up with these Marples?


You need to get a Marple BlueChip chisel. They are the ones we all say are good.

Myx

It's marketing hype. The tool is so soft it is all but worthless. I
have a set that I let the "grandkids" play with. The others come from
Japan.

I called LN this week. Sometime this quarter they promise to have their
chisels out.

RB

Bay Area Dave wrote:
I just picked up 3 Marples protouch chisels, wasted my time to sharpen
the 3/8" one and then proceeded to put chisel to wood; namely red oak.
Before getting more than 4 sides of a mortise started the chisel's edge
was so nicked that I could see it without my reading glasses! That's
saying something. BTW, I sharpened it on 3 diamond stones and then up
to around 5k+ papers. I used the Lee Valley honing guide...

I've got a Sears chisel, 3/4" that holds an edge for quite a while.
What's up with these Marples?

dave

thanks for the confirmation. too bad they didn't work out for me; I
liked the handles!

dave

RB wrote:

It's marketing hype. The tool is so soft it is all but worthless. I
have a set that I let the "grandkids" play with. The others come from
Japan.

I called LN this week. Sometime this quarter they promise to have their
chisels out.

RB

Bay Area Dave wrote:

I just picked up 3 Marples protouch chisels, wasted my time to sharpen
the 3/8" one and then proceeded to put chisel to wood; namely red oak.
Before getting more than 4 sides of a mortise started the chisel's
edge was so nicked that I could see it without my reading glasses!
That's saying something. BTW, I sharpened it on 3 diamond stones and
then up to around 5k+ papers. I used the Lee Valley honing guide...

I've got a Sears chisel, 3/4" that holds an edge for quite a while.
What's up with these Marples?

dave

Bay Area Dave wrote in
:

I just picked up 3 Marples protouch chisels, wasted my time to sharpen
the 3/8" one and then proceeded to put chisel to wood; namely red oak.
Before getting more than 4 sides of a mortise started the chisel's edge
was so nicked that I could see it without my reading glasses! That's
saying something. BTW, I sharpened it on 3 diamond stones and then up
to around 5k+ papers. I used the Lee Valley honing guide...

I've got a Sears chisel, 3/4" that holds an edge for quite a while.
What's up with these Marples?

dave


Dave,
If you want some SERIOUS chisels, drive on up to Alameda, and visit The
Japan Woodworker. Make certain you bring your high limit credit card,
though. They are rightly proud of their tools.

On the other hand, your grandchildren will be trying to decide who gets
them when you're gone....

Patriarch

Dave,
If you want some SERIOUS chisels, drive on up to Alameda, and visit The
Japan Woodworker. Make certain you bring your high limit credit card,
though. They are rightly proud of their tools.

On the other hand, your grandchildren will be trying to decide who gets
them when you're gone....



I've been looking at just buying a couple of chisels from Japan
Woodworker. My limited set of 1/4, 1/2, and 1" of cheap stanleys have
seen only use of the smaller two. And they are better suited to glue
line scraping than mortising.

What does one need to spend on individual chisels to get a good
mortising chisel? $30 $50 $150?

Thanks for those who have used them.

(Alan W) writes:


Dave,
If you want some SERIOUS chisels, drive on up to Alameda, and visit The

[...]

I've been looking at just buying a couple of chisels from Japan
Woodworker. My limited set of 1/4, 1/2, and 1" of cheap stanleys have
seen only use of the smaller two. And they are better suited to glue
line scraping than mortising.

What does one need to spend on individual chisels to get a good
mortising chisel? $30 $50 $150?

I have a 6mm mortising chisel from E.C. Emmerich (ECE) and am very
plaesed with it, although before the initial honing i had to re-grind
the bevel because it was slightly skewed, but 5 minutes on a coarse
cheap waterstone mended that. It cost me 23.50 EUR, including 16% VAT.

For "general" use i wouyld recommend cheap chinese HSS chisels as seen
he
http://www.dick-gmbh.com/shop/prodau...ChineseChisels
or (if you want really wide ones) he
http://www.dick-gmbh.com/shop/prodau...seBroadChisels

They take an edge very well, are very sturdy and keep their edge
exceptionally well. They look a bit strange (especially the broad
ones), so you are not going to impress someone by their exceptional
beauty, but they are extremely useful and handy. Wish i had a complete
et of them and also that smaller sizes (most narrow is 12.5mm) were
available.



--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23

While we are on the subject of Japanese chisels, has anyone tried that
set offered by Grizzly? From what you can tell in a catalog they look
and sound pretty good but the price seems too good to be true. Has
anyone out there taken the chance?

Thanks in advance,
Bill

--

"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are."
-Theodore Roosevelt


"Alan W" wrote in message
om...

Dave,
If you want some SERIOUS chisels, drive on up to Alameda, and visit
The
Japan Woodworker. Make certain you bring your high limit credit
card,
though. They are rightly proud of their tools.

On the other hand, your grandchildren will be trying to decide who
gets
them when you're gone....



I've been looking at just buying a couple of chisels from Japan
Woodworker. My limited set of 1/4, 1/2, and 1" of cheap stanleys have
seen only use of the smaller two. And they are better suited to glue
line scraping than mortising.

What does one need to spend on individual chisels to get a good
mortising chisel? $30 $50 $150?

Thanks for those who have used them.

Yes, SWMBO gave me the set of 10 last Christmas. Before using them I
spent a little time sharpening them (using the scary sharp system).
Once I had put an edge on the 1" chisel, I used it to shave off some
end grain from a scrap of maple. Sweet! Now, I can't really compare
them to the Marples since these were my first chisels, but I can say
that after a year they are still a pleasure to use.

Ian

"Wm Gardner" wrote in message news:dLRQb.149168$na.246764@attbi_s04...
While we are on the subject of Japanese chisels, has anyone tried that
set offered by Grizzly? From what you can tell in a catalog they look
and sound pretty good but the price seems too good to be true. Has
anyone out there taken the chance?

Thanks in advance,
Bill

--

"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are."
-Theodore Roosevelt


"Alan W" wrote in message
om...

Dave,
If you want some SERIOUS chisels, drive on up to Alameda, and visit
The
Japan Woodworker. Make certain you bring your high limit credit
card,
though. They are rightly proud of their tools.

On the other hand, your grandchildren will be trying to decide who
gets
them when you're gone....



I've been looking at just buying a couple of chisels from Japan
Woodworker. My limited set of 1/4, 1/2, and 1" of cheap stanleys have
seen only use of the smaller two. And they are better suited to glue
line scraping than mortising.

What does one need to spend on individual chisels to get a good
mortising chisel? $30 $50 $150?

Thanks for those who have used them.

Thanks for the input Ian. Just had that phrase ("if is sounds too good
to be true.....") running around in my head. Better to hear of someone
else's experience.

Bill

--

"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are."
-Theodore Roosevelt


"Ian Dodd" wrote in message
om...
Yes, SWMBO gave me the set of 10 last Christmas. Before using them I
spent a little time sharpening them (using the scary sharp system).
Once I had put an edge on the 1" chisel, I used it to shave off some
end grain from a scrap of maple. Sweet! Now, I can't really compare
them to the Marples since these were my first chisels, but I can say
that after a year they are still a pleasure to use.

Ian

"Wm Gardner" wrote in message
news:dLRQb.149168$na.246764@attbi_s04...
While we are on the subject of Japanese chisels, has anyone tried
that
set offered by Grizzly? From what you can tell in a catalog they
look
and sound pretty good but the price seems too good to be true. Has
anyone out there taken the chance?

Thanks in advance,
Bill

--

"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are."
-Theodore Roosevelt


"Alan W" wrote in message
om...

Dave,
If you want some SERIOUS chisels, drive on up to Alameda, and
visit
The
Japan Woodworker. Make certain you bring your high limit credit
card,
though. They are rightly proud of their tools.

On the other hand, your grandchildren will be trying to decide
who
gets
them when you're gone....



I've been looking at just buying a couple of chisels from Japan
Woodworker. My limited set of 1/4, 1/2, and 1" of cheap stanleys
have
seen only use of the smaller two. And they are better suited to
glue
line scraping than mortising.

What does one need to spend on individual chisels to get a good
mortising chisel? $30 $50 $150?

Thanks for those who have used them.

I've the chisels you mention, but have not tried them. Japanese are
like any other tool when it comes to value. You usually get what you
pay for. I wouldn't doubt that the chisels offered by Grizzly are
okay, but they were probably made by lesser craftsmen. It takes an
apprentice years to learn just how to work the metals so that the
chisel has all the right working qualities. You might want to take a
look at the Mastumura chisels offered by JapanWoodworker.com. You'll
get a handcrafted Japanese chisel made by a bonafide master
chiselmaker. They're a great value. Then you can drool over the other
chisels like those made by Tasai. When you get to that level you're
not just buying a tool you're buying a work of art.

Layne
ps, usual disclaimers apply.

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 16:01:13 GMT, "Wm Gardner"
wrote:

While we are on the subject of Japanese chisels, has anyone tried that
set offered by Grizzly? From what you can tell in a catalog they look
and sound pretty good but the price seems too good to be true. Has
anyone out there taken the chance?

Thanks in advance,
Bill

Not necessarily unless you include marketing & hype as part of what you pay
for. This is a really long thread, but in one of my answers I mentioned a
FWW chisel test from issue #139 Dec/99. They measured hardness and
toughness of 17 chisels. A couple of comparisons that might be interesting:

The most expensive chisels ("you get what you pay for", right?) were ones
from Barr Specialty Tools at about $75 per chisel. These had a Rockwell
hardness of 61C and ranked 5th in toughness. Pretty disappointing for the
most expensive tool tested. However, the article also pointed out the feel
of it is a "delight to hold and behold".

A $20 chisel from Hirsch was even harder (59C) and ranked higher at 4th in
toughness. So for $55 less per chisel you could get a harder and tougher
chisel.

The least expensive chisel was from Sears at $6/chisel and ranked 9th in
toughness with a hardness of 60C which wasn't too bad compared to the
others.

In the test the top three spots went to Japanese chisels, but then down
below the cheap Craftsman came another Japanese chisel so it wasn't a give
that a Japanese chisel would outperform all others. I guess the bottom line
is that you can't be sure the Grizzly chisel is good just because it's a
Japanese chisel. OTOH, you can't be sure that it isn't good just because it
costs less than expected.

I should point out that the article also came to the conclusion that none of
the 17 chisels tested were "junk". They also came to the conclusion that
it's probably more important how the chisel feels in your hand than it's
toughness because the quality of the metal really just dictates how often
you have to sharpen it. As the FWW article says "What's the point of buying
a chisel made of super-tough steel if it feels lousy in your hand?" Seems
like good advice.

--
Larry C in Auburn, WA



Layne wrote in message ...
I've the chisels you mention, but have not tried them. Japanese are
like any other tool when it comes to value. You usually get what you
pay for. I wouldn't doubt that the chisels offered by Grizzly are
okay, but they were probably made by lesser craftsmen. It takes an
apprentice years to learn just how to work the metals so that the
chisel has all the right working qualities. You might want to take a
look at the Mastumura chisels offered by JapanWoodworker.com. You'll
get a handcrafted Japanese chisel made by a bonafide master
chiselmaker. They're a great value. Then you can drool over the other
chisels like those made by Tasai. When you get to that level you're
not just buying a tool you're buying a work of art.

Layne
ps, usual disclaimers apply.

While I agree with you in principle, budgets do eventually come into
play also. For the chisels you mentioned, the 1.5" (alone) is 1/2 the
price of the entire Grizzly set. Frankly this is more than I intended to
spend on chisels.

Don't misunderstand, I am not questioning the quality/price/value of the
higher end Japanese chisels, I was just hoping to get something of
reasonable quality for an affordable price. If these chisels are of low
quality, I will likely purchase the Freud set instead. Though I would
like Japanese chisels, I do not want a poor quality tool just because it
is Japanese.

Thanks for the advice (domo arigato),
Bill

--

"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are."
-Theodore Roosevelt


Layne wrote in message
...
I've the chisels you mention, but have not tried them. Japanese are
like any other tool when it comes to value. You usually get what you
pay for. I wouldn't doubt that the chisels offered by Grizzly are
okay, but they were probably made by lesser craftsmen. It takes an
apprentice years to learn just how to work the metals so that the
chisel has all the right working qualities. You might want to take a
look at the Mastumura chisels offered by JapanWoodworker.com. You'll
get a handcrafted Japanese chisel made by a bonafide master
chiselmaker. They're a great value. Then you can drool over the other
chisels like those made by Tasai. When you get to that level you're
not just buying a tool you're buying a work of art.

Layne
ps, usual disclaimers apply.

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 16:01:13 GMT, "Wm Gardner"
wrote:

While we are on the subject of Japanese chisels, has anyone tried
that
set offered by Grizzly? From what you can tell in a catalog they look
and sound pretty good but the price seems too good to be true. Has
anyone out there taken the chance?

Thanks in advance,
Bill

Hi Dave,

I have a set of the Marples Blue Chip and I'd rate them as "o.k.". A
reasonable value for the money, but they definitely require a bit more
diligent work to use regularly.

I subsequently purchased these:
http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html/...o_cherries.htm

(I got the 6 piece promotional boxed set).

They are MUCH higher quality than the Marples, and for $100, I think an even
better value. These promotional chisels aren't polished, but they are made
with the same steel as the "regular" two cherries chisels. If you want a
shiny chisel you can pay $65 more.

Anyway, that's my recommendation.

Mike

"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
...
I just picked up 3 Marples protouch chisels, wasted my time to sharpen
the 3/8" one and then proceeded to put chisel to wood; namely red oak.
Before getting more than 4 sides of a mortise started the chisel's edge
was so nicked that I could see it without my reading glasses! That's
saying something. BTW, I sharpened it on 3 diamond stones and then up
to around 5k+ papers. I used the Lee Valley honing guide...

I've got a Sears chisel, 3/4" that holds an edge for quite a while.
What's up with these Marples?

dave

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 12:25:46 GMT, "Mike in Mystic"
wrote:


They are MUCH higher quality than the Marples, and for $100, I think an even
better value.

Mike,
How flat was the back of the two cherries when you got them?
They look good, and I'm thinking of picking some up myself.

Thanks,
Barry

I spent a fair amount of time flattening them with some 150 grit wet/dry
sandpaper. I didn't time it exactly, but let's just say it took more than
30 seconds but less than 5 minutes. As these things go, I'd say that they
were pretty flat right out of the box. Keep in mind, I only flattened the
1-2 inches right near the edge.

Mike

"B a r r y B u r k e J r ." wrote
in message ...
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 12:25:46 GMT, "Mike in Mystic"
wrote:


They are MUCH higher quality than the Marples, and for $100, I think an
even
better value.

Mike,
How flat was the back of the two cherries when you got them?
They look good, and I'm thinking of picking some up myself.

Thanks,
Barry

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 21:25:05 GMT, "Mike in Mystic"
wrote:

I spent a fair amount of time flattening them with some 150 grit wet/dry
sandpaper. I didn't time it exactly, but let's just say it took more than
30 seconds but less than 5 minutes. As these things go, I'd say that they
were pretty flat right out of the box.

Sounds like that to me, as well.

Keep in mind, I only flattened the
1-2 inches right near the edge.

As is all you need to.

Thanks!
Barry

Bay Area Dave wrote in message m...

I just picked up 3 Marples protouch chisels, wasted my time to sharpen
the 3/8" one and then proceeded to put chisel to wood; namely red oak.
Before getting more than 4 sides of a mortise started the chisel's edge
was so nicked that I could see it without my reading glasses! That's
saying something. BTW, I sharpened it on 3 diamond stones and then up
to around 5k+ papers. I used the Lee Valley honing guide...

I've got a Sears chisel, 3/4" that holds an edge for quite a while.
What's up with these Marples?

Why were you using a standard bevel-edge chisel to chop mortises in
the first place?

FWIW, I've been using Blue Chips for several years now without any
real complaints. I also have some nicer chisels, but I've gotten
about what I expected from a $20 set of chisels.


Chuck Vance

I bought a Marples chisel twenty years ago that was in the same category as
yours. Looks nice but performs like pasta. I am glad you posted.
Dave
"Conan the Librarian" wrote in message
om...
Bay Area Dave wrote in message
m...

I just picked up 3 Marples protouch chisels, wasted my time to sharpen
the 3/8" one and then proceeded to put chisel to wood; namely red oak.
Before getting more than 4 sides of a mortise started the chisel's edge
was so nicked that I could see it without my reading glasses! That's
saying something. BTW, I sharpened it on 3 diamond stones and then up
to around 5k+ papers. I used the Lee Valley honing guide...

I've got a Sears chisel, 3/4" that holds an edge for quite a while.
What's up with these Marples?

Why were you using a standard bevel-edge chisel to chop mortises in
the first place?

FWIW, I've been using Blue Chips for several years now without any
real complaints. I also have some nicer chisels, but I've gotten
about what I expected from a $20 set of chisels.


Chuck Vance

I also have had the same experience . It should be noted that the honing a
ngle should vary according to the hardness of the material they are used on
, oak for instance would require a greater angle than say pine . In
particular mortise chisel edges really take beating that is why they are
more robust in design.

One other consideration is the old saying what you loose on the roundablouts
you gain on the swings , personally one has to weigh using a softer material
and consequently sharpening the tool more frequently against using a harder
material and sharpening it less frequently but the proceedure taking half
the day .

My SET of Marples blue chips ran me at the time $25 from Highland hardware
[it used to be somewhat of a specialty with them]. The UK pound is currently
higher against the dollar so I would expect them currently to be 10 to 15%
higher....mjh

--




"Conan the Librarian" wrote in message
om...
Bay Area Dave wrote in message
m...

I just picked up 3 Marples protouch chisels, wasted my time to sharpen
the 3/8" one and then proceeded to put chisel to wood; namely red oak.
Before getting more than 4 sides of a mortise started the chisel's edge
was so nicked that I could see it without my reading glasses! That's
saying something. BTW, I sharpened it on 3 diamond stones and then up
to around 5k+ papers. I used the Lee Valley honing guide...

I've got a Sears chisel, 3/4" that holds an edge for quite a while.
What's up with these Marples?

Why were you using a standard bevel-edge chisel to chop mortises in
the first place?

FWIW, I've been using Blue Chips for several years now without any
real complaints. I also have some nicer chisels, but I've gotten
about what I expected from a $20 set of chisels.


Chuck Vance

SHARPEN a chisel?!? Damn ... I've just been moving them over to the
screwdriver rack when they get dull.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 1/23/04


"Mike Hide" wrote in message

and consequently sharpening the tool more frequently against using a
harder
material and sharpening it less frequently but the proceedure taking half
the day .

Chuck, did you miss the part where I mentioned that my old Sears chisel
performs the same cuts with nary a blemish?? I decimated the edge on
the Marples in just a few moments. I didn't even get past 3/16" deep
into the wood. That's pretty pathetic.

dave

Conan the Librarian wrote:
Bay Area Dave wrote in message m...


I just picked up 3 Marples protouch chisels, wasted my time to sharpen
the 3/8" one and then proceeded to put chisel to wood; namely red oak.
Before getting more than 4 sides of a mortise started the chisel's edge
was so nicked that I could see it without my reading glasses! That's
saying something. BTW, I sharpened it on 3 diamond stones and then up
to around 5k+ papers. I used the Lee Valley honing guide...

I've got a Sears chisel, 3/4" that holds an edge for quite a while.
What's up with these Marples?


Why were you using a standard bevel-edge chisel to chop mortises in
the first place?

FWIW, I've been using Blue Chips for several years now without any
real complaints. I also have some nicer chisels, but I've gotten
about what I expected from a $20 set of chisels.


Chuck Vance

Bay Area Dave wrote:

Chuck, did you miss the part where I mentioned that my old Sears chisel
performs the same cuts with nary a blemish??

Uh, no ... because you didn't say that. You said you have a 3/4"
Sears chisel that holds an edge nicely, but that you were using a 3/8"
Marples for cutting a mortise.

I don't know about you, but I don't use a 3/4" chisel to cut a 3/8"
mortise or vice versa.

I decimated the edge on
the Marples in just a few moments. I didn't even get past 3/16" deep
into the wood. That's pretty pathetic.

I have several recent-vintage Stanleys that I keep ground to fairly
steep angles. They work great for pounding into things. I keep my Blue
Chips sharpened at pretty low bevel-angles. Guess what? They don't
work so great for pounding into things. But they do work well for
paring cuts.


Chuck Vance

Another point of view. . . .

When I made the rocking chair at Homestead Heritage, The class used nothing
but blue handled Marples chisels. The chair has 42 M&T joints, all hand
made. :-)
I wonder how we managed that. There were 10 chairs made in that class.

Having said that, I have purchased some mortise chisels. I tend not to use
them because the bench chisels are always out and always scalpel sharp. I
learned to keep the stones out on the bench when working, and it is easy to
touch up the edge when required. We learned to sharpen chisels and plane
irons without grinders or honing jigs at Homestead Heritage.
I've started using files to clean up the edges on damaged chisels ala The
Furniture Doctor (George Grotz).
I really think it is more a matter of technique than some realize.

If I were chopping mortises in mesquite though like you do, I'm sure my
attitude would change. Has anybody here tried Jim Cummings instructions for
tempering chisels with propane torches. I think I will try it on one of my
really soft chisels (old Stanley Defiance) and report back.

Woodworking is largely a matter of personal preferences. I'll spend $140 for
a dovetail saw, and $200 for a hand plane, but I've never purchased a $100
chisel.

"Conan The Librarian" wrote in message
...
Bay Area Dave wrote:

Chuck, did you miss the part where I mentioned that my old Sears chisel
performs the same cuts with nary a blemish??
snip
I have several recent-vintage Stanleys that I keep ground to fairly
steep angles. They work great for pounding into things. I keep my Blue
Chips sharpened at pretty low bevel-angles. Guess what? They don't
work so great for pounding into things. But they do work well for
paring cuts.


Chuck Vance

Lowell Holmes wrote:

Another point of view. . . .

When I made the rocking chair at Homestead Heritage, The class used nothing
but blue handled Marples chisels. The chair has 42 M&T joints, all hand
made. :-)
I wonder how we managed that. There were 10 chairs made in that class.

You have my utmost respect. :-)

Having said that, I have purchased some mortise chisels. I tend not to use
them because the bench chisels are always out and always scalpel sharp. I
learned to keep the stones out on the bench when working, and it is easy to
touch up the edge when required. We learned to sharpen chisels and plane
irons without grinders or honing jigs at Homestead Heritage.
I've started using files to clean up the edges on damaged chisels ala The
Furniture Doctor (George Grotz).
I really think it is more a matter of technique than some realize.

Your technique is probably better than mine. I find that I need the
thick cross-section and square sides to make my mortises come out
halfway decent.

If I were chopping mortises in mesquite though like you do, I'm sure my
attitude would change. Has anybody here tried Jim Cummings instructions for
tempering chisels with propane torches. I think I will try it on one of my
really soft chisels (old Stanley Defiance) and report back.

Please do. While I don't know that I'll experiment much with the
metallurgical side of things, it might be interesting to see the results
and compare that back to the chisels we buy and see if we can draw
conclusions on how they were tempered. (Or why we report such wildly
different results with some of the same brands of chisels.)

Woodworking is largely a matter of personal preferences. I'll spend $140 for
a dovetail saw, and $200 for a hand plane, but I've never purchased a $100
chisel.

Funny you should mention that. I guess I've figured mine are "good
enough", because I'm like you. I don't think I've spent more than $40
for a chisel, and that was for a big old 1-1/2" honker I bought when
building my bench.

But they still seem to do what I need them to do. Go figure. :-)


Chuck Vance

chuck, chuck, chuck. I was TESTING the Sears to see that it could
handle the same wood under the same conditions. I wasn't doing a real
project!

dave

Conan The Librarian wrote:

Bay Area Dave wrote:

Chuck, did you miss the part where I mentioned that my old Sears
chisel performs the same cuts with nary a blemish??


Uh, no ... because you didn't say that. You said you have a 3/4"
Sears chisel that holds an edge nicely, but that you were using a 3/8"
Marples for cutting a mortise.

I don't know about you, but I don't use a 3/4" chisel to cut a 3/8"
mortise or vice versa.

I decimated the edge on the Marples in just a few moments. I didn't
even get past 3/16" deep into the wood. That's pretty pathetic.


I have several recent-vintage Stanleys that I keep ground to fairly
steep angles. They work great for pounding into things. I keep my Blue
Chips sharpened at pretty low bevel-angles. Guess what? They don't
work so great for pounding into things. But they do work well for
paring cuts.


Chuck Vance

Did you grind off the first 1/8" to get to the good steel? I've got Buck,
Ashley Isles, Marples and they all are the ****s right out of the box. Some
of the guys at the shop have 2 Cherries and they say thiers were good right
out of the box, but I don't know if they were trying to chop oak or
something just as hard.

"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
m...
Chuck, did you miss the part where I mentioned that my old Sears chisel
performs the same cuts with nary a blemish?? I decimated the edge on
the Marples in just a few moments. I didn't even get past 3/16" deep
into the wood. That's pretty pathetic.

dave

Conan the Librarian wrote:
Bay Area Dave wrote in message
m...


I just picked up 3 Marples protouch chisels, wasted my time to sharpen
the 3/8" one and then proceeded to put chisel to wood; namely red oak.
Before getting more than 4 sides of a mortise started the chisel's edge
was so nicked that I could see it without my reading glasses! That's
saying something. BTW, I sharpened it on 3 diamond stones and then up
to around 5k+ papers. I used the Lee Valley honing guide...

I've got a Sears chisel, 3/4" that holds an edge for quite a while.
What's up with these Marples?


Why were you using a standard bevel-edge chisel to chop mortises in
the first place?

FWIW, I've been using Blue Chips for several years now without any
real complaints. I also have some nicer chisels, but I've gotten
about what I expected from a $20 set of chisels.


Chuck Vance

you mean they are tipped with sh*t for steel but the rest of the tool is
better??

dave

blabla wrote:

Did you grind off the first 1/8" to get to the good steel? I've got Buck,
Ashley Isles, Marples and they all are the ****s right out of the box. Some
of the guys at the shop have 2 Cherries and they say thiers were good right
out of the box, but I don't know if they were trying to chop oak or
something just as hard.

"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
m...

Chuck, did you miss the part where I mentioned that my old Sears chisel
performs the same cuts with nary a blemish?? I decimated the edge on
the Marples in just a few moments. I didn't even get past 3/16" deep
into the wood. That's pretty pathetic.

dave

Conan the Librarian wrote:

Bay Area Dave wrote in message

m...


I just picked up 3 Marples protouch chisels, wasted my time to sharpen
the 3/8" one and then proceeded to put chisel to wood; namely red oak.
Before getting more than 4 sides of a mortise started the chisel's edge
was so nicked that I could see it without my reading glasses! That's
saying something. BTW, I sharpened it on 3 diamond stones and then up
to around 5k+ papers. I used the Lee Valley honing guide...

I've got a Sears chisel, 3/4" that holds an edge for quite a while.
What's up with these Marples?


Why were you using a standard bevel-edge chisel to chop mortises in
the first place?

FWIW, I've been using Blue Chips for several years now without any
real complaints. I also have some nicer chisels, but I've gotten
about what I expected from a $20 set of chisels.


Chuck Vance

Bay Area Dave writes:

you mean they are tipped with sh*t for steel but the rest of the tool
is better??

or got hot during grinding, as should not happen...

--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23

Most chisels tips have been de-tempered from the final grinding and
polishing processes at the factory.


"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
om...
you mean they are tipped with sh*t for steel but the rest of the tool is
better??

dave

blabla wrote:

Did you grind off the first 1/8" to get to the good steel? I've got
Buck,
Ashley Isles, Marples and they all are the ****s right out of the box.
Some
of the guys at the shop have 2 Cherries and they say thiers were good
right
out of the box, but I don't know if they were trying to chop oak or
something just as hard.

"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
m...

Chuck, did you miss the part where I mentioned that my old Sears chisel
performs the same cuts with nary a blemish?? I decimated the edge on
the Marples in just a few moments. I didn't even get past 3/16" deep
into the wood. That's pretty pathetic.

dave

Conan the Librarian wrote:

Bay Area Dave wrote in message

m...


I just picked up 3 Marples protouch chisels, wasted my time to sharpen
the 3/8" one and then proceeded to put chisel to wood; namely red oak.
Before getting more than 4 sides of a mortise started the chisel's
edge
was so nicked that I could see it without my reading glasses! That's
saying something. BTW, I sharpened it on 3 diamond stones and then up
to around 5k+ papers. I used the Lee Valley honing guide...

I've got a Sears chisel, 3/4" that holds an edge for quite a while.
What's up with these Marples?


Why were you using a standard bevel-edge chisel to chop mortises in
the first place?

FWIW, I've been using Blue Chips for several years now without any
real complaints. I also have some nicer chisels, but I've gotten
about what I expected from a $20 set of chisels.


Chuck Vance

on a number of occations I have run into this- the first few
sharpenings of a new chisel don't last. I assume that it has to do
with the manufacturers being a bit agressive about the initial
grinding of the bevel and cooking the temper right at the edge.



On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 18:39:19 GMT, "blabla" wrote:

Did you grind off the first 1/8" to get to the good steel? I've got Buck,
Ashley Isles, Marples and they all are the ****s right out of the box. Some
of the guys at the shop have 2 Cherries and they say thiers were good right
out of the box, but I don't know if they were trying to chop oak or
something just as hard.

"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
om...
Chuck, did you miss the part where I mentioned that my old Sears chisel
performs the same cuts with nary a blemish?? I decimated the edge on
the Marples in just a few moments. I didn't even get past 3/16" deep
into the wood. That's pretty pathetic.

dave

Conan the Librarian wrote:
Bay Area Dave wrote in message
om...


I just picked up 3 Marples protouch chisels, wasted my time to sharpen
the 3/8" one and then proceeded to put chisel to wood; namely red oak.
Before getting more than 4 sides of a mortise started the chisel's edge
was so nicked that I could see it without my reading glasses! That's
saying something. BTW, I sharpened it on 3 diamond stones and then up
to around 5k+ papers. I used the Lee Valley honing guide...

I've got a Sears chisel, 3/4" that holds an edge for quite a while.
What's up with these Marples?


Why were you using a standard bevel-edge chisel to chop mortises in
the first place?

FWIW, I've been using Blue Chips for several years now without any
real complaints. I also have some nicer chisels, but I've gotten
about what I expected from a $20 set of chisels.


Chuck Vance

This is really bumming me out. My Marples chisels ARE my good
chisels. I bought them to use instead of my Stanley's, which are
probably just as good.


--
The software said it ran under Windows 98/NT/2000, or better.
So I installed it on Linux...
"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
m...
Chuck, did you miss the part where I mentioned that my old Sears chisel
performs the same cuts with nary a blemish?? I decimated the edge on
the Marples in just a few moments. I didn't even get past 3/16" deep
into the wood. That's pretty pathetic.

dave

Conan the Librarian wrote:
Bay Area Dave wrote in message
m...


I just picked up 3 Marples protouch chisels, wasted my time to sharpen
the 3/8" one and then proceeded to put chisel to wood; namely red oak.
Before getting more than 4 sides of a mortise started the chisel's edge
was so nicked that I could see it without my reading glasses! That's
saying something. BTW, I sharpened it on 3 diamond stones and then up
to around 5k+ papers. I used the Lee Valley honing guide...

I've got a Sears chisel, 3/4" that holds an edge for quite a while.
What's up with these Marples?


Why were you using a standard bevel-edge chisel to chop mortises in
the first place?

FWIW, I've been using Blue Chips for several years now without any
real complaints. I also have some nicer chisels, but I've gotten
about what I expected from a $20 set of chisels.


Chuck Vance



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.566 / Virus Database: 357 - Release Date: 1/22/2004

not to worry, David. the pundits here think it's MY fault the edge fell
apart. and I didn't get the Blue Chip chisels.

dave

David Binkowski wrote:

This is really bumming me out. My Marples chisels ARE my good
chisels. I bought them to use instead of my Stanley's, which are
probably just as good.

Bay Area Dave wrote:

I just picked up 3 Marples protouch chisels, wasted my time to sharpen
the 3/8" one and then proceeded to put chisel to wood; namely red oak.
Before getting more than 4 sides of a mortise started the chisel's edge
was so nicked that I could see it without my reading glasses! That's
saying something. BTW, I sharpened it on 3 diamond stones and then up
to around 5k+ papers. I used the Lee Valley honing guide...

Just a couple of comments. Are these chisels actually mortising
chisels? If not, you might consider picking up a set of them for that
purpose. That said, you can get a special on a four chisel unpolished
Two Cherries bench chisel set in a wooden box for $75 at:

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/M...ry_Code=TXQ1-2

I've got a Sears chisel, 3/4" that holds an edge for quite a while.
What's up with these Marples?

dave

No they weren't mortising chisels. But they have a metal top, mentioned
on the package as being able to withstand mallet blows and the
"occasional" hammer blow! Besides, if I were to want to make a hinge
mortise, I can't believe I need to use a beefy mortising chisel instead
of a bench chisel.

dave

Joseph Crowe wrote:

Bay Area Dave wrote:

I just picked up 3 Marples protouch chisels, wasted my time to sharpen
the 3/8" one and then proceeded to put chisel to wood; namely red oak.
Before getting more than 4 sides of a mortise started the chisel's
edge was so nicked that I could see it without my reading glasses!
That's saying something. BTW, I sharpened it on 3 diamond stones and
then up to around 5k+ papers. I used the Lee Valley honing guide...


Just a couple of comments. Are these chisels actually mortising
chisels? If not, you might consider picking up a set of them for that
purpose. That said, you can get a special on a four chisel unpolished
Two Cherries bench chisel set in a wooden box for $75 at:

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/M...ry_Code=TXQ1-2



I've got a Sears chisel, 3/4" that holds an edge for quite a while.
What's up with these Marples?

dave

Bay Area Dave wrote:

No they weren't mortising chisels. But they have a metal top, mentioned
on the package as being able to withstand mallet blows and the
"occasional" hammer blow! Besides, if I were to want to make a hinge
mortise, I can't believe I need to use a beefy mortising chisel instead
of a bench chisel.

You use a hammer on your chisels when cutting hinge mortises?


Chuck Vance
Just say (tmPL) Well, that explains a lot.

I didn't use a hammer, Chuck. You aren't reading my posts very closely,
are you?

dave

Conan The Librarian wrote:

Bay Area Dave wrote:

No they weren't mortising chisels. But they have a metal top,
mentioned on the package as being able to withstand mallet blows and
the "occasional" hammer blow! Besides, if I were to want to make a
hinge mortise, I can't believe I need to use a beefy mortising chisel
instead of a bench chisel.


You use a hammer on your chisels when cutting hinge mortises?


Chuck Vance
Just say (tmPL) Well, that explains a lot.

Bay Area Dave wrote:

I didn't use a hammer, Chuck. You aren't reading my posts very closely,
are you?

I give them them as much attention as they deserve. (And in this
case, sadly, a lot more.)

In one sentence you mentioned that they were supposed to be able to
withstand mallet and hammer blows. In the next sentence you talked
about chopping hinge mortises.

Can you see how someone might logically infer that the two were related?

OK, fine ... you win. All Blue Chips are a piece of crap (despite
my experiences to the contrary). And you don't need mortising chisels
to chop mortises. And you should be able to do everything from opening
paintcans to paring a paper thin slice of endgrain with the same chisel.
And it should never get dull or chip. And you should be able to buy
it for less than $20. Happy now?


Chuck Vance

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/w00116.asp

I bought bench chisels. this webpage says what you can use them for.

dave

Conan The Librarian wrote:

Bay Area Dave wrote:

No they weren't mortising chisels. But they have a metal top,
mentioned on the package as being able to withstand mallet blows and
the "occasional" hammer blow! Besides, if I were to want to make a
hinge mortise, I can't believe I need to use a beefy mortising chisel
instead of a bench chisel.


You use a hammer on your chisels when cutting hinge mortises?


Chuck Vance
Just say (tmPL) Well, that explains a lot.