I was in my garop (garage shop) yesterday fiddling around. Late last year I
bought a clock for the garop that has time, temperature, and humidity dials on
it. It was going to be a hot day outside so I thought it would be interesting
to see just what happened in the heat.

I was doing ok as the temperature rose from a starting point of about 80 when I
started. When it said 85 I was still ok. Sweating a little, but it was
tolerable. When it said 90 I wasn't ok anymore, but I kept fiddling anyway.
Sweating a lot too. When I would go back into the house, the 82 degrees in
there (a/c is great isn't it?) felt GREAT. When the temperature got to 95, my
clothes would almost instantly stick to me when I would go out there because of
the sweat. Not fun anymore. I started thinking to myself that I must really be
a pussy. (Any women out there, please substitute the word wussy from now on)
Can't even take 95 degrees anymore. Then I thought to myself, "So what if I'm a
pussy!" and went into the house. The last time I looked it got up to 98 in the
garop. I think it probbly hit a hunnerd in there before it was all over.

So I started wondering how many other pussies are out there. I like to think I
have earned my "pussyship". I remember in my younger years working with my dad
wrenching on his trucks in 110 deg heat with no shade. Had to be VERY careful
where you put your tools down because if laid them down in the direct sunlight
you weren't picking them back up again without getting some serious burns (well,
that's what it felt like anyway). I can remember driving across the SoCal
desert in 125 heat with no a/c. I can also remember much more recently being
out in my son's back yard digging trenches (by hand shovel) for his sprinkler
system and it was well over 100 that day. I have quite a few other heat related
memories too. So I have earned it.

The outside temp finally got up to 105 yesterday and for the first time in
several weeks THERE WAS NO BREEZE. The humidity hovered in the 45% range which
is a little bit higher than usual for this heat. At that temp it is usually
more like 15% to maybe 30% (I have other gauges around, just a new on in the
garop). Also my uninsulated aluminum garop doors face west so I get the full
sun in the late afternoon. If I open the garop doors all I get is hot air
coming across the concrete in front, PLUS the sun heating up everything else
inside. If I leave the doors closed I can't get too near them because they feel
like tools left laying in the sun.

But back to the question, how hot is too hot?, etc. Obviously, this question
will only apply to people that do not have air conditioned work shops. Many if
not most of you probably don't even have a thermometer. But about what
temperature do you finally give it up and go back into a less hostile
environment? I know you can't say "I go in at 90 degrees." Too many weather
variable for that. But for me, I think I'll probably stick to around 90 or so
for heat, and maybe 50ish for cold. Any colder than that and my hands start
hurting from the cold and I just hate wearing gloves. Any hotter than 90 or so
and I could ruin a perfectly good piece of wood with sweat droppings. :-) I
have pushed both ends of the scale for shorter periods of time (couple of hours
or so) and I'll do it again, but as a general rule of thumb I think these limits
are close. Won't really take a thermometer to tell either. If my hands start
aching from the chill, I'll go in. If I lay my arm on the bench and I have to
peel a piece of wood off of my arm, I'll go in.


Wayne

"NoOne N Particular" wrote in message

So I started wondering how many other pussies are out there. I like to
think I have earned my "pussyship". But back to the question, how hot is
too hot?, etc.


I quit at about 90 in summer, 40 in winter. That is 40 inside with the heat
on. If the outside is below 15F, I don't even try to turn on the heat.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"NoOne N Particular" wrote in message
So I started wondering how many other pussies are out there. I like to
think I have earned my "pussyship". But back to the question, how hot is
too hot?, etc.


I quit at about 90 in summer, 40 in winter. That is 40 inside with the heat
on. If the outside is below 15F, I don't even try to turn on the heat.


Fortunately for me, it doesn't get down to 15F here. There will be a week or
two where we may get down below freezing a time or two, but the humidity at that
temp will still be 60-70% and it just chills you to the bone. I have a propane
jobsite heater for the ol' garop, but to use it you need good ventilation which
jut lets in more cold air. Plus it's noisy.

What kind of heater do you have?

Wayne

"NoOne N Particular" wrote in message
. net...
I was in my garop (garage shop) yesterday fiddling around. Late last year
I bought a clock for the garop that has time, temperature, and humidity
dials on it. It was going to be a hot day outside so I thought it would be
interesting to see just what happened in the heat.

I was doing ok as the temperature rose from a starting point of about 80
when I started. When it said 85 I was still ok. Sweating a little, but
it was tolerable. When it said 90 I wasn't ok anymore, but I kept
fiddling anyway. Sweating a lot too. When I would go back into the house,
the 82 degrees in there (a/c is great isn't it?) felt GREAT. When the
temperature got to 95, my clothes would almost instantly stick to me when
I would go out there because of the sweat. Not fun anymore. I started
thinking to myself that I must really be a pussy. (Any women out there,
please substitute the word wussy from now on) Can't even take 95 degrees
anymore. Then I thought to myself, "So what if I'm a pussy!" and went
into the house. The last time I looked it got up to 98 in the garop. I
think it probbly hit a hunnerd in there before it was all over.

So I started wondering how many other pussies are out there. I like to
think I have earned my "pussyship". I remember in my younger years
working with my dad wrenching on his trucks in 110 deg heat with no shade.
Had to be VERY careful where you put your tools down because if laid them
down in the direct sunlight you weren't picking them back up again without
getting some serious burns (well, that's what it felt like anyway). I can
remember driving across the SoCal desert in 125 heat with no a/c. I can
also remember much more recently being out in my son's back yard digging
trenches (by hand shovel) for his sprinkler system and it was well over
100 that day. I have quite a few other heat related memories too. So I
have earned it.

The outside temp finally got up to 105 yesterday and for the first time in
several weeks THERE WAS NO BREEZE. The humidity hovered in the 45% range
which is a little bit higher than usual for this heat. At that temp it is
usually more like 15% to maybe 30% (I have other gauges around, just a new
on in the garop). Also my uninsulated aluminum garop doors face west so I
get the full sun in the late afternoon. If I open the garop doors all I
get is hot air coming across the concrete in front, PLUS the sun heating
up everything else inside. If I leave the doors closed I can't get too
near them because they feel like tools left laying in the sun.

But back to the question, how hot is too hot?, etc. Obviously, this
question will only apply to people that do not have air conditioned work
shops. Many if not most of you probably don't even have a thermometer.
But about what temperature do you finally give it up and go back into a
less hostile environment? I know you can't say "I go in at 90 degrees."
Too many weather variable for that. But for me, I think I'll probably
stick to around 90 or so for heat, and maybe 50ish for cold. Any colder
than that and my hands start hurting from the cold and I just hate wearing
gloves. Any hotter than 90 or so and I could ruin a perfectly good piece
of wood with sweat droppings. :-) I have pushed both ends of the scale
for shorter periods of time (couple of hours or so) and I'll do it again,
but as a general rule of thumb I think these limits are close. Won't
really take a thermometer to tell either. If my hands start aching from
the chill, I'll go in. If I lay my arm on the bench and I have to peel a
piece of wood off of my arm, I'll go in.


Wayne

it's the humidity that'll get you. it reached about 115 yesterday here and i
was outside working in it most of the day. however, our humidity probably
was in the 15% range. any sweat almost instantly evaporated, and as long as
i kept drinking enough, it wasn't too bad.

granted i was standing in a puddle of water and being splashed most of that
time too (i'm diamond honing some concrete countertops with a wet grinder).

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

NoOne N Particular wrote:
....

But back to the question, how hot is too hot?, etc. ...

Depends...

Ventilation, shade, humidity, work level, etc., etc., etc., ...

My general rule is 100F is hot, 105F is HOT, 110F+ is too hot for
anything except that which MUST be done (and a farmer's work is never
done, either)...

--

Wayne,

Was listening to a show today about dehydration and the expert
said that you should drink 20 oz of water BEFORE you
go and work/exercise in the heat (here it means above 90 degrees).
The body takes about 20 minutes to absorb the water. Also
water in any form - coffee, tea is fine, but not soft drinks.
Electrolyte
liquids like Gaterade are also good.

Also, keep drinking. dehydration crepts up on you. I remember
last year I was helping a friend with his massive shed , I kept
drinking some water and and after about 2 hrs I was l feeling
lousy (headache, "loopy"). I was
having some water problems for sure. Sat down, kept drinking water
and in about 20 minutes or more, things got back to normal. Temp
that day was about 100 and we were standing on a concrete pad
which meant that it had to be hotter than that. Should have had 10 oz
of
water every 15 minutes.

As far shop work - I'd say - if you need to work in the heat (90
degrees, 40%
humidity or greater) - get a fan or cooler (air or swamp). I leave
when the sun hits the
shop directly which is late afternoon around 4:30 or so. Also my
shop is insulated which also helps.

Stay cool and healthy!

MJ Wallace

While not applicable to cold, the following make working when it's
hot semi-OK

Attitude - when you're laying on the beach in Maui and it's 98 degrees
that's no problem brah. So a sound generator doing waves and
sea gull cries can help.

Create a breeze - even a little breeze makes you feel cooler - so
a simple fan - set on low so as not to blow stuff around - helps.

Loose clothes - people in the middle east don't go with tank tops
or tight shirts or pants for a reason.

Stay ahead of thirst. When it's hot, by the time you feel thirsty
you're already dehydrated. Lots of fluids, preferably without
caffiene or salt will let you keep working - without falling down
every once in a while.

Music selection - just about any Christmas album. Think "cold",
feel cooler.

"It's not the heat, but the humidity, that gets you." - yeah right.

charlie b
(if you want temperature extremes - head for Central Texas -
30 degree low, 105 degree high the next day, then hail the next
day followed by a week of cloudless 100 -107 degree days. Then
there's a frost. Wait a day or two and you've got lightening storms
you can't imagine 'til you've experienced it, with torrential
rains - blowing horizontally by 40-50 mph winds. Did I mention
the wasps and locust? I think God does all his testing for
things to get sinners' attention in Central Texas)

"NoOne N Particular" wrote in message

What kind of heater do you have?

Wayne

30,000 Btu Reddy Heater, propane. Good for what I do, but not enough for
truly cold days, thus the 15 degree limit. I did insulate the walls last
year and that helps.

On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 18:34:33 GMT, NoOne N Particular
wrote:

I was in my garop (garage shop) yesterday fiddling around. Late last year I

I am fortunate to have an air-conditioned shop where it is kept about
76 degrees in the summer. But, when doing outdoor work anything over
the 90-degree mark I struggle after 30 minutes. I prefer to avoid the
outdoors from 1 to 4 PM during the summer. I don't feel cold until
the (room) temperature drops to below 62, and I dislike going outdoors
for more than 20 minutes when the temperature rises above 100 or dips
below 10. Excessive heat wears me out (I have a couple attic jobs on
hold until fall).

I suggest you bend the needle on the thermometer of your gague so that when
the actual temperature is 100 or so, it only reads 90. That should solve
your problem on most days.


--
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation
with the average voter. (Winston Churchill)

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

charlieb wrote:
....
(if you want temperature extremes - head for Central Texas -
30 degree low, 105 degree high the next day, then hail the next
day followed by a week of cloudless 100 -107 degree days. Then
there's a frost. Wait a day or two and you've got lightening storms
you can't imagine 'til you've experienced it, with torrential
rains - blowing horizontally by 40-50 mph winds. Did I mention
the wasps and locust? I think God does all his testing for
things to get sinners' attention in Central Texas)

In general, don't disagree, but that's a pretty apt description of
anywhere on the High Plains from W TX to SK, not _just_ wherever you are
in TX...

While extremes are common here, too, (SW KS) along w/ all the other
niceties you mention, I'd like to see the weather record of the day that
had a 30F low w/ a 105F high... That's a TX exaggeration, I'm
thinking!

(Greatest 24 hr swing I can recall is from roughly 100F to low 40s
during spring chinooks or cold fronts.) I can't recall ever having an
actual frost on the day of or before a 100-deg buster.

Wonder if the NWS has a searchable archive for that kind of trivia???
Never actually looked for it, but would be kinda' interesting...

--

NoOne N Particular wrote:

| last year I bought a clock for the garop that has time,
| temperature, and humidity dials on it.

Hang a small mirror at eye level alongside your clock and make a habit
of taking a quick glance at it - it can provide advance warning of
heat stroke/exhaustion.

Any significant deviation from your normal skin coloration is a signal
to take an _immediate_ pause for fluids and cooling.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Its too hot when your sweat keeps dripping on your project wood.

Thu, Jul 5, 2007, 6:34pm (EDT+4)
(NoOne*N*Particular) did burble:
I was in my garop SNIP of a buncha stuff

So you're a sissy.



JOAT
If a man does his best, what else is there?
- General George S. Patton

dpb wrote:
charlieb wrote:
...
(if you want temperature extremes - head for Central Texas -
30 degree low, 105 degree high the next day, then hail the next
day followed by a week of cloudless 100 -107 degree days. Then
there's a frost. Wait a day or two and you've got lightening storms
you can't imagine 'til you've experienced it, with torrential
rains - blowing horizontally by 40-50 mph winds. Did I mention
the wasps and locust? I think God does all his testing for
things to get sinners' attention in Central Texas)

In general, don't disagree, but that's a pretty apt description of
anywhere on the High Plains from W TX to SK, not _just_ wherever you are
in TX...


Well I'm not from Texas but it sounds like a good place to be FROM. :-) I was
raised in Albuquerque so I know a little about the weather swings. I can
remember waking up to beautiful bright sunny skies and in a couple of hours it
would be raining so hard that we truly could not see the houses across the
street. Then two hours later everything is nice and clear, warm and DRY. I can
also remember looking out into the deserts in the west and seeing huge clouds of
blowing sand coming our way. We would have to go inside and close all the
windows (and chink them in some places) and ride out the dust storms. I hated
those. Imagine being in a house that you have had to seal against the sand and
this house has no ventilation of any kind. No Swamp cooler or even fans.

Out here in Oakley, (California's newest city about 60 miles inland from San
Francisco along the San Joaquin River) it is quite different. We are just on
the western side of the interior valley and summers are just about always clear
and hot with, at most, about a 40 degree swing in temps. Summer highs probably
would average out to be in the 100 to 105 range and the lows at night would be
from 70 to about 75 or so. The highest temp I have seen is a 117 on two or
three bank signs. Don't know how accurate the signs were but it was HOT HOT
HOT!!! Humidity be damned. 110's and 112's are not nearly rare enough. :-)
You'd think that the evenings would be great, and they would be except for
mosquitoes in the two hours surrounding sunset. Winter high temps are usually
in the fifties with occasional dips into the 40's. Winter lows rarely ever go
below freezing but we have had some mid twenties.

One of the things that gets me the most is the "delta breezes". You get up in
the morning and the weather is beautiful. Clear skies, moderate temps, and no
wind. Then about 1:00 or 1:30 you will feel a slight puff of wind on your face,
but it doesn't stop. The wind speed just keeps building until about sunset and
by that time it is 20-25 mph. As soon as the sun sets the breezes start to
diminish and within an hour they are gone.

Well anyway, It is now 1:30 in the afternoon and we have a 101 degrees outside
right now with about two and a half hours to go until the hottest part of the
day. I hafta go sit on the a/c vent with a brewski.

Wayne





While extremes are common here, too, (SW KS) along w/ all the other
niceties you mention, I'd like to see the weather record of the day that
had a 30F low w/ a 105F high... That's a TX exaggeration, I'm
thinking!

(Greatest 24 hr swing I can recall is from roughly 100F to low 40s
during spring chinooks or cold fronts.) I can't recall ever having an
actual frost on the day of or before a 100-deg buster.

Wonder if the NWS has a searchable archive for that kind of trivia???
Never actually looked for it, but would be kinda' interesting...

--

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message

Any significant deviation from your normal skin coloration is a signal
to take an _immediate_ pause for fluids and cooling.

LOL ... gee, thanks! Normally a dark white, so I'm told, I'm barely able to
tell the red 3's in Canasta when the lighting is just right, so I guess I'll
have to stick to fainting over the table saw as an indicator in these hot
Houston summers.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 6/1/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

NoOne N Particular wrote:
dpb wrote:
charlieb wrote:
...
(if you want temperature extremes - head for Central Texas -
30 degree low, 105 degree high the next day, then hail the next
day followed by a week of cloudless 100 -107 degree days. Then
there's a frost. Wait a day or two and you've got lightening storms
you can't imagine 'til you've experienced it, with torrential
rains - blowing horizontally by 40-50 mph winds. Did I mention
the wasps and locust? I think God does all his testing for
things to get sinners' attention in Central Texas)

In general, don't disagree, but that's a pretty apt description of
anywhere on the High Plains from W TX to SK, not _just_ wherever you
are in TX...


Well I'm not from Texas but it sounds like a good place to be FROM.
:-) I was raised in Albuquerque so I know a little about the weather
swings. I can remember waking up to beautiful bright sunny skies and in
a couple of hours it would be raining so hard that we truly could not
see the houses across the street. Then two hours later everything is
nice and clear, warm and DRY. I can also remember looking out into the
deserts in the west and seeing huge clouds of blowing sand coming our
way. We would have to go inside and close all the windows (and chink
them in some places) and ride out the dust storms. I hated those.
Imagine being in a house that you have had to seal against the sand and
this house has no ventilation of any kind. No Swamp cooler or even fans.

Out here in Oakley, (California's newest city about 60 miles inland from
San Francisco along the San Joaquin River) it is quite different. We
are just on the western side of the interior valley and summers are just
about always clear and hot with, at most, about a 40 degree swing in
temps. Summer highs probably would average out to be in the 100 to 105
range and the lows at night would be from 70 to about 75 or so. The
highest temp I have seen is a 117 on two or three bank signs. Don't
know how accurate the signs were but it was HOT HOT HOT!!! Humidity be
damned. 110's and 112's are not nearly rare enough. :-) You'd think
that the evenings would be great, and they would be except for
mosquitoes in the two hours surrounding sunset. Winter high temps are
usually in the fifties with occasional dips into the 40's. Winter lows
rarely ever go below freezing but we have had some mid twenties.

One of the things that gets me the most is the "delta breezes". You get
up in the morning and the weather is beautiful. Clear skies, moderate
temps, and no wind. Then about 1:00 or 1:30 you will feel a slight puff
of wind on your face, but it doesn't stop. The wind speed just keeps
building until about sunset and by that time it is 20-25 mph. As soon
as the sun sets the breezes start to diminish and within an hour they
are gone.

The mountains generate weather in high country, yes, and it is indeed
quite variable.

Don't need to tell somebody in the center of what was the 30s what
blowing dirt is, either... While I'm not _that_ old I do remember
the 50s that were a mini-version.

Your CA "delta breezes" are a poor cousin of the High Plains
heating-generated winds we have. 20-30 is still pretty near "calm" in
our dictionary

While it sounds bad, the nice days are really appreciated for one and
who wants the same ol' same ol' every day, anyway?

When in TN/VA I really missed two things -- seeing the horizon and the
massive building of thunderstorms. Of course, once in a while they get
just a little out of hand, but...

--

Leon wrote:
Its too hot when your sweat keeps dripping on your project wood.

No, it's too humid when your sweat _drips_ at all -- in any reasonable
locale it's supposed to evaporate in place!

--

"Swingman" wrote in message
...

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message

Any significant deviation from your normal skin coloration is a signal
to take an _immediate_ pause for fluids and cooling.

LOL ... gee, thanks! Normally a dark white, so I'm told, I'm barely able
to
tell the red 3's in Canasta when the lighting is just right, so I guess
I'll
have to stick to fainting over the table saw as an indicator in these hot
Houston summers.


And fortunately this summer Houston has be MILD. I heard a couple of days
ago that in Houston the high temperature for the first 2 days in July had
set a 120 year record of being the lowest Highs.

"dpb" wrote in message ...
Leon wrote:
Its too hot when your sweat keeps dripping on your project wood.

No, it's too humid when your sweat _drips_ at all -- in any reasonable
locale it's supposed to evaporate in place!

--

Evaporate????? That is a scarce word in Houston.

Swingman wrote:
| "Morris Dovey" wrote in message
|
|| Any significant deviation from your normal skin coloration is a
|| signal to take an _immediate_ pause for fluids and cooling.
|
| LOL ... gee, thanks! Normally a dark white, so I'm told, I'm barely
| able to tell the red 3's in Canasta when the lighting is just
| right, so I guess I'll have to stick to fainting over the table saw
| as an indicator in these hot Houston summers.

Hmm. That's a tough one. The only other clue that I know to watch for
is having really dry skin in situations when you know you should be
sweating like a hog. I remember from earlier days that the people from
Texas weren't any less vulnerable than the folks from New Jersey - and
I recall that a number of Aramcons didn't survive rapid transitions
from A/C to outdoor (and outdoor to A/C) temperatures.

Although it probably doesn't apply to you or me, vulnerability
increases with age...

:-)

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Subject

Had a very high tech sailing instrument taped to the mast of the boat.

It was a glass tube filled with mercury called a thermometer.

When it got to 80F, it was time to sail South.

When it got to 60F, it was time to sail North.

Lew

Lew Hodgett wrote:
Subject

Had a very high tech sailing instrument taped to the mast of the boat.

It was a glass tube filled with mercury called a thermometer.

When it got to 80F, it was time to sail South.

When it got to 60F, it was time to sail North.

Lew
That sounds just bass ackwards to me. I'm assuming that you are in the northern
hemisphere sailing north when it gets up to 80, so you go south to get
cooler????? Are you down under???

Wayne

NoOne N Particular wrote:

That sounds just bass ackwards to me. I'm assuming that you are in
the
northern hemisphere sailing north when it gets up to 80, so you go
south
to get cooler????? Are you down under???


Somebody's reading.

You pass the testG.

Lew

In article . com,
says...
Also, keep drinking. dehydration crepts up on you. I remember
last year I was helping a friend with his massive shed , I kept
drinking some water and and after about 2 hrs I was l feeling
lousy (headache, "loopy").


Interesting. Me, I'm a cold climate person. Anything over 27C - that's just a
shade over 80F (nopunintended) - knocks me flat with the symptoms you describe:
bad headaches, woozyness, visual disturbances. Funny thing is though, I always
drink like a fish all day, water, coffee, more water ... so I don't really
think it's dehydration that gets me. Will try to remember and look into it next
summer though (it's the middle of winter here a.t.m.).

cheers, -P.

--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com

Leon wrote:
"dpb" wrote in message ...
Leon wrote:
Its too hot when your sweat keeps dripping on your project wood.
No, it's too humid when your sweat _drips_ at all -- in any reasonable
locale it's supposed to evaporate in place!

--

Evaporate????? That is a scarce word in Houston.

I said _reasonable_. Houston (actually, anywhere along the Gulf Coast
or deep SE) doesn't fit my definition of reasonable for non-winter
months, anyway...

--

Nobody has mentioned what they are doing or what they are wearing at the
time in question. It's one thing if I'm running a board through a
table saw. It's quite another if I'm beating on iron for hours at a
time at the coal forge. Or being off-bearer at a well run sawmill. Or
putting up sheet rock.
As for sweating on the wood, wear a sweat band. It also keeps sweat
of of your eyes. When IT starts to drip, take a break. Don't drink
beer while working in the shop on a hot day. I don't know about you,
but it runs right out my sweat glands!
I guess I have different rules for different jobs. My shop isn't
aircondtioned, but it is dehumidified (no condensing environment for my
tools). Also extremely well insulated. It usually runs at about 48% RH.
Temperature gets up to low 80's at worst in summer.
In winter, the issue is what the temp is at floor level, particularly
when doing relatively sedantary activities. At 55 degrees I am
uncomfortable. But, if I am moving around, 45 degrees at the floor line
is okay.
It also depends upon how I dress. Bermuda-type shorts are good for
about 5 or 10 extra degress of heat.
Long johns and GOOD insulated boots are good for 5 or 10 degrees colder.
For winter, consider gloves with the thumb and first two fingers cut
off at the first knuckle (except where safety prohibits it).

Pete Stanaitis
----------------------------------------------------------------

NoOne N Particular wrote:
I was in my garop (garage shop) yesterday fiddling around. Late last
year I bought a clock for the garop that has time, temperature, and
humidity dials on it. It was going to be a hot day outside so I thought
it would be interesting to see just what happened in the heat.

I was doing ok as the temperature rose from a starting point of about 80
when I started. When it said 85 I was still ok. Sweating a little, but
it was tolerable. When it said 90 I wasn't ok anymore, but I kept
fiddling anyway. Sweating a lot too. When I would go back into the
house, the 82 degrees in there (a/c is great isn't it?) felt GREAT.
When the temperature got to 95, my clothes would almost instantly stick
to me when I would go out there because of the sweat. Not fun anymore.
I started thinking to myself that I must really be a pussy. (Any women
out there, please substitute the word wussy from now on) Can't even take
95 degrees anymore. Then I thought to myself, "So what if I'm a pussy!"
and went into the house. The last time I looked it got up to 98 in the
garop. I think it probbly hit a hunnerd in there before it was all over.

So I started wondering how many other pussies are out there. I like to
think I have earned my "pussyship". I remember in my younger years
working with my dad wrenching on his trucks in 110 deg heat with no
shade. Had to be VERY careful where you put your tools down because if
laid them down in the direct sunlight you weren't picking them back up
again without getting some serious burns (well, that's what it felt like
anyway). I can remember driving across the SoCal desert in 125 heat
with no a/c. I can also remember much more recently being out in my
son's back yard digging trenches (by hand shovel) for his sprinkler
system and it was well over 100 that day. I have quite a few other heat
related memories too. So I have earned it.

The outside temp finally got up to 105 yesterday and for the first time
in several weeks THERE WAS NO BREEZE. The humidity hovered in the 45%
range which is a little bit higher than usual for this heat. At that
temp it is usually more like 15% to maybe 30% (I have other gauges
around, just a new on in the garop). Also my uninsulated aluminum garop
doors face west so I get the full sun in the late afternoon. If I open
the garop doors all I get is hot air coming across the concrete in
front, PLUS the sun heating up everything else inside. If I leave the
doors closed I can't get too near them because they feel like tools left
laying in the sun.

But back to the question, how hot is too hot?, etc. Obviously, this
question will only apply to people that do not have air conditioned work
shops. Many if not most of you probably don't even have a thermometer.
But about what temperature do you finally give it up and go back into a
less hostile environment? I know you can't say "I go in at 90
degrees." Too many weather variable for that. But for me, I think I'll
probably stick to around 90 or so for heat, and maybe 50ish for cold.
Any colder than that and my hands start hurting from the cold and I just
hate wearing gloves. Any hotter than 90 or so and I could ruin a
perfectly good piece of wood with sweat droppings. :-) I have pushed
both ends of the scale for shorter periods of time (couple of hours or
so) and I'll do it again, but as a general rule of thumb I think these
limits are close. Won't really take a thermometer to tell either. If
my hands start aching from the chill, I'll go in. If I lay my arm on
the bench and I have to peel a piece of wood off of my arm, I'll go in.


Wayne

spaco wrote:


As for sweating on the wood, wear a sweat band. It also keeps sweat
of of your eyes. When IT starts to drip, take a break.

Around here it's known as a "Dew Rag".

Bags of 25 available from your favorite supplier, Harbor Freight.

Lew

NoOne N Particular wrote:
I was in my garop (garage shop) yesterday fiddling around. Late last
year I bought a clock for the garop that has time, temperature, and
humidity dials on it. It was going to be a hot day outside so I
thought it would be interesting to see just what happened in the heat.

I was doing ok as the temperature rose from a starting point of about
80 when I started. When it said 85 I was still ok. Sweating a
little, but it was tolerable. When it said 90 I wasn't ok anymore,
but I kept fiddling anyway. Sweating a lot too. When I would go back
into the house, the 82 degrees in there (a/c is great isn't it?) felt
GREAT. When the temperature got to 95, my clothes would almost
instantly stick to me when I would go out there because of the sweat.
Not fun anymore. I started thinking to myself that I must really be
a pussy. (Any women out there, please substitute the word wussy from
now on) Can't even take 95 degrees anymore. Then I thought to
myself, "So what if I'm a pussy!" and went into the house. The last
time I looked it got up to 98 in the garop. I think it probbly hit a
hunnerd in there before it was all over.

So I started wondering how many other pussies are out there. I like
to think I have earned my "pussyship". I remember in my younger
years working with my dad wrenching on his trucks in 110 deg heat
with no shade. Had to be VERY careful where you put your tools down
because if laid them down in the direct sunlight you weren't picking
them back up again without getting some serious burns (well, that's
what it felt like anyway). I can remember driving across the SoCal
desert in 125 heat with no a/c. I can also remember much more
recently being out in my son's back yard digging trenches (by hand
shovel) for his sprinkler system and it was well over 100 that day.
I have quite a few other heat related memories too. So I have earned
it.

The outside temp finally got up to 105 yesterday and for the first
time in several weeks THERE WAS NO BREEZE. The humidity hovered in
the 45% range which is a little bit higher than usual for this heat.
At that temp it is usually more like 15% to maybe 30% (I have other
gauges around, just a new on in the garop). Also my uninsulated
aluminum garop doors face west so I get the full sun in the late
afternoon. If I open the garop doors all I get is hot air coming
across the concrete in front, PLUS the sun heating up everything else
inside. If I leave the doors closed I can't get too near them
because they feel like tools left laying in the sun.

But back to the question, how hot is too hot?, etc. Obviously, this
question will only apply to people that do not have air conditioned
work shops. Many if not most of you probably don't even have a
thermometer. But about what temperature do you finally give it up
and go back into a less hostile environment? I know you can't say "I
go in at 90 degrees." Too many weather variable for that. But for
me, I think I'll probably stick to around 90 or so for heat, and
maybe 50ish for cold. Any colder than that and my hands start
hurting from the cold and I just hate wearing gloves. Any hotter
than 90 or so and I could ruin a perfectly good piece of wood with
sweat droppings. :-) I have pushed both ends of the scale for
shorter periods of time (couple of hours or so) and I'll do it again,
but as a general rule of thumb I think these limits are close. Won't
really take a thermometer to tell either. If my hands start aching
from the chill, I'll go in. If I lay my arm on the bench and I have
to peel a piece of wood off of my arm, I'll go in.

You might find http://www.usna.edu/USMCInfo/Heat%20Condition.htm to be
of interest. The Boat School follows the same rules as the Marines in
that regard, and the Marines are not famous for coddling their recruits.

The wikipedia article on WBGT
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_Bulb_Globe_Temperature describes the
procedure for computing the index.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)


Wayne

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Peter Huebner wrote:
In article . com,
says...
Also, keep drinking. dehydration crepts up on you. I remember
last year I was helping a friend with his massive shed , I kept
drinking some water and and after about 2 hrs I was l feeling
lousy (headache, "loopy").


Interesting. Me, I'm a cold climate person. Anything over 27C -
that's just a shade over 80F (nopunintended) - knocks me flat with
the symptoms you describe: bad headaches, woozyness, visual
disturbances

I don't mean to be a worry-wart, but heat related visual disturbances
can be symptomatic of Multiple Sclerosis--you might want to talk to your
physician about this next time you see him--MS is something you don't
want to screw around with.

Funny thing is though, I always drink like a fish all
day, water, coffee,

Careful with the coffee, or cola, or anything with caffeine. Caffeine
is a diuretic--drinking cola or coffee can make you _more_ dehydrated.
While a Coke can taste awful good on a hot day, water or an
electrolyte-balanced sport drink is a safer bet.

Next summer try Gatorade and no coffee and see if that improves the
situation. Note that Gatorade is to some extent self-controlling--if
it tastes like crap you're probably adequately hydrated--don't know if
that's intentional but it's been my observation.

Wear a hat outdoors when working in direct sunlight.

more water ... so I don't really think it's
dehydration that gets me. Will try to remember and look into it next
summer though (it's the middle of winter here a.t.m.).

cheers, -P.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

I keep the shop at 69f.

Hard labor makes it necessary and my employees love it. We still sweat
plenty and change tee-shirts sometimes, etc.... Can't imagine doing this in
80+ without the humidity removed...

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R

On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 18:34:33 GMT, NoOne N Particular
wrote:

I was in my garop (garage shop) yesterday fiddling around. Late last year I
bought a clock for the garop that has time, temperature, and humidity dials on
it. It was going to be a hot day outside so I thought it would be interesting
to see just what happened in the heat.

The hottest documented temperature I've worked in was a "heat index"
of 107 while installing a ceiling fan on a screened porch last year.
It was a "work 20 minutes - cool off 20 minutes" process. The day was
hot enough that the grandkids - both pre-school and usually nose-deep
in any type of "work" - didn't want to stay outside and watch.

I don't (yet) have a sawdust-confining area in the basement, so I move
the table saw out onto the (mostly shaded) back driveway when using
it. This limits me to your rules:
not so cold that my hands hurt (so usually above 55F)
not so hot that I drip sweat on the wood (depends on temperature plus
humidity)

At age 64, I've learned to invoke the "time to wimp-out" rules when
necessary ;-)

I still cut, edge, and trim 1/4 acre of yard, just not in one
continuous effort - I stop for water and shade a couple of times...

And when my wife wanted her grandmother's treadle sewing machine moved
to the second floor, I waited until both 30-something sons-in-law were
here and had them carry it up the stairs. There is some return on
paying for two weddings ;-)

John

In article , says...
Careful with the coffee, or cola, or anything with caffeine. Caffeine
is a diuretic--drinking cola or coffee can make you _more_ dehydrated.

That's a rumor that has been debunked. Yes, coffee is a duretic and makes you
pee more, but you still have a net-gain of fluid in your system, you may just
have to drink more often to keep it topped up. It's not like I am a 37 cups
a day man, you know.
Dunno about coke, I don't do fizzy soft-drinks.

Since I bin heat sensitive like that for 40 years that I _recall_, I don't
think I am about to break out with MS, but we have a friend who has it so I
know what to look out for. That "imagine you're lying on a beach" thing that
someone suggested, got a grin on my face: I last about 3 minutes on that beach
before I either go for a dive or seek some deep deep shade. Doh!

cheers, -P.

--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com

Fluids

You can't buy either coffee or beer.

Usually you just rent them, sometimes you can negotiate a short term
leaseG.

DAMHIKT

Lew

On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 00:01:22 GMT, Lew Hodgett
wrote:

Fluids

You can't buy either coffee or beer.

Usually you just rent them, sometimes you can negotiate a short term
leaseG.

I've been to some places that seemed to have a well-done recycling
program.

---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------

Sat, Jul 7, 2007, 12:01am (EDT+4)
(Lew*Hodgett)
Fluids
You can't buy either coffee or beer.
Usually you just rent them, sometimes you can negotiate a short term
leaseG.
DAMHIKT

Make a lousy name for a bar.
The House Of Temporary Beer



JOAT
I do things I don't know how to do, so that I might learn how to do
them.
- Picasso

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
ink.net...
Fluids

You can't buy either coffee or beer.

Usually you just rent them, sometimes you can negotiate a short term
leaseG.

DAMHIKT



One of the things I think should be taught in schools is "uniculturalism."

Includes universal truths like the one you mentioned. It's not in my
_Dictionary of Russian Proverbs and Sayings_, but after a few (recycled?)
Cuban beers my Soviet counterparts and I were looking for the facilities and
mentioning the same thing.

Used to be handled in footnotes in literature and poetry texts, but few can
read anymore, and teachers are often so narrowly grounded themselves that it
gets no mention.

Peter Huebner wrote:
In article ,
says...
Careful with the coffee, or cola, or anything with caffeine.
Caffeine is a diuretic--drinking cola or coffee can make you _more_
dehydrated.

That's a rumor that has been debunked. Yes, coffee is a duretic and
makes you pee more, but you still have a net-gain of fluid in your
system, you may just have to drink more often to keep it topped
up. It's not like I am a 37 cups a day man, you know.
Dunno about coke, I don't do fizzy soft-drinks.

If you check the source for the "debunking" you'll find that he doesn't
say that it's a "rumor" or that it has been "debunked"--what he does say
is that in certain circumstances 4 or fewer cups of coffee per day won't
result in chronic dehydration in a healthy person who is consuming a
balanced diet.

There's also the little issue that his study was funded by the National
Coffee Foundation and the one that he seems to be the _only_ researcher
finding evidence to support this contention.

Do what you want to but you're the one having the problems with heat.

Since I bin heat sensitive like that for 40 years that I _recall_, I
don't think I am about to break out with MS, but we have a friend who
has it so I know what to look out for. That "imagine you're lying on
a beach" thing that someone suggested, got a grin on my face: I last
about 3 minutes on that beach before I either go for a dive or seek
some deep deep shade. Doh!

cheers, -P.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

J T wrote:
Sat, Jul 7, 2007, 12:01am (EDT+4)
(Lew Hodgett)
Fluids
You can't buy either coffee or beer.
Usually you just rent them, sometimes you can negotiate a short term
leaseG.
DAMHIKT

Make a lousy name for a bar.
The House Of Temporary Beer

I seem to recall drinking in a tavern once called "The Golden Hertz".
So perhaps "Hertz Rent A Beer"?

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)