A friend had an accident late yesterday. he rammed a nail through a CH pipe
under the floor. He pleaded with me to fix it. It required a small amount
of pipe and fitting. the first thing was to drain down. I didn't have any
fittings or soldering equipment to hand, and had to make a distress purchase
at the local shed. Only Speedfit was available, a system I really do not
like. I reluctantly bought the fittings and a 2 metre length of 15mm pipe.
The system was suffering from creaking around the puncture pipe point, so
plastic pipe should cure this too.

I cut back and cleaned the copper, inserted the Speedfit fittings and some
pipe. I explained that plastic fittings are reduced in size from 15mm to
approx 12mm because of the inserts.

Well time to fill up. I always fill with just fresh water in case of a
swift drains down in case of a problems and lose the inhibitor.
Lo-and-behold one Speedfit fitting was ****ing out. A swift drain down. On
inspection the O ring had been pushed out of its housing ring and was
bunched up further down the fitting. The pipe inserted was plastic that
pushed the O ring put. Straight out to buy another fitting before they
closed. Inserted the new fitting and all was fine...well for now. The
expansion creak has gone......but the fittings holding up for a period of
time is another matter. I told him to observe the fittings, and if he
wanted too, I could replace with Marley Equator, Osma Gold or Hep2O, or
better still replace with copper. He said he will let me know, which will
mean if it is OK for a week or so he will leave it because he can't be
bothered. Which will mean if they **** out again he comes around to me
again on a bank holiday Monday.

IMM wrote:

Well time to fill up. I always fill with just fresh water in case of a
swift drains down in case of a problems and lose the inhibitor.
Lo-and-behold one Speedfit fitting was ****ing out. A swift drain down. On
inspection the O ring had been pushed out of its housing ring and was
bunched up further down the fitting. The pipe inserted was plastic that
pushed the O ring put.

This isn't the first time you've mentioned something like this. What
insert did you use? I've found it nearly impossible to intentionally
dislodge an O ring from a SpeedFit fitting.

--
Grunff

On Tue, 4 May 2004 15:46:24 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


Well time to fill up. I always fill with just fresh water in case of a
swift drains down in case of a problems and lose the inhibitor.
Lo-and-behold one Speedfit fitting was ****ing out. A swift drain down. On
inspection the O ring had been pushed out of its housing ring and was
bunched up further down the fitting. The pipe inserted was plastic that
pushed the O ring put.

What did you use to cut the pipe and which insert did you use?



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

Well time to fill up. I always fill with just fresh water in case of a
swift drains down in case of a problems and lose the inhibitor.
Lo-and-behold one Speedfit fitting was ****ing out. A swift drain down.
On
inspection the O ring had been pushed out of its housing ring and was
bunched up further down the fitting. The pipe inserted was plastic
that
pushed the O ring put.

This isn't the first time you've mentioned something like this. What
insert did you use?

The older one without the O ring on them. All the shed sell only the older
type. That wasn't the problem though. Wickes and Homebase sell Speedfit
fitting under their own name, well Wickes does say Speedfit on it.

I've found it nearly impossible to intentionally
dislodge an O ring from a SpeedFit fitting.

This one was dislodged with relative ease.

IMM wrote:
down. On inspection the O ring had been pushed out of its housing
ring and was bunched up further down the fitting. The pipe inserted

Wow, shows what sort of a job a 'pro' can manage.
And you don't have any copper either?
I guess you don't keep spares or tools at IMM mansions.
Must all be down at that commercial unit.

Tip: Don't take it apart and fiddle with all the bits before wrongly
re-assembling it next time. Use Equator to avoid the temptation to meddle.

--
Toby.

'One day son, all this will be finished'

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 4 May 2004 15:46:24 +0100, "IMM" wrote:

Well time to fill up. I always fill with just fresh water in case of a
swift drains down in case of a problems and lose the inhibitor.
Lo-and-behold one Speedfit fitting was ****ing out. A swift drain down.
On
inspection the O ring had been pushed out of its housing ring and was
bunched up further down the fitting. The pipe inserted was plastic that
pushed the O ring put.

What did you use to cut the pipe

A hacksaw and trimmed it off with Stanley knife to remove an burred edges.
The insert butted right up against the pipe. The insert was not the
problem, the problem was the poor fittings...fittings made by an ex toy
maker. The toy box is the best place for them.

"Toby" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:
down. On inspection the O ring had been pushed out of its housing
ring and was bunched up further down the fitting. The pipe inserted

Wow, shows what sort of a job a 'pro' can manage.

You are right .....when using inferior fittings. Best avoided.

Toby wrote:

Tip: Don't take it apart and fiddle with all the bits before wrongly
re-assembling it next time. Use Equator to avoid the temptation to meddle.


SpeedFit fittings can't be taken apart like Hep ones. But I've gotta
say, I've never had any problems with either make.

--
Grunff

IMM wrote:

A hacksaw and trimmed it off with Stanley knife to remove an burred edges.

ROFL!! You're a real pro...


The insert butted right up against the pipe. The insert was not the
problem, the problem was the poor fittings...fittings made by an ex toy
maker. The toy box is the best place for them.

And for your junior hacksaw.

--
Grunff

A hacksaw and trimmed it off with Stanley knife to remove an burred edges.

Don't you have a pipe cutter?

Christian.

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

A hacksaw and trimmed it off with Stanley knife to remove an burred
edges.

ROFL!! You're a real pro...

I am. No cutter available so did the same thing with two other tools. You
would have left the job and waited another day to buy a £20 cutter. Sad
isn't it. How amateur.

The insert butted right up against the pipe. The insert was not the
problem, the problem was the poor fittings...fittings made by an ex toy
maker. The toy box is the best place for them.

And for your junior hacksaw.

You have junior hacksaws in your kids toy box! How irresponsible!

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
A hacksaw and trimmed it off with Stanley knife to remove an burred
edges.

Don't you have a pipe cutter?

Yes, but it wasn't to hand.

Grunff wrote:

SpeedFit fittings can't be taken apart like Hep ones. But I've gotta
say, I've never had any problems with either make.


Yes they can, I have one here in pieces. Though this is one of the
"tiwst lock" ones which also seem to hold better.

As a test I tried pulling a pipe out of a locked Speedfit fitting, and
they don't come out. Unlike the earlier ones...

Lee
--
Email address is valid, but is unlikely to be read.

IMM wrote:
A friend had an accident late yesterday. he rammed a nail through a CH pipe
under the floor. He pleaded with me to fix it. It required a small amount
of pipe and fitting. the first thing was to drain down. I didn't have any
fittings or soldering equipment to hand, and had to make a distress purchase
at the local shed. Only Speedfit was available, a system I really do not
like. I reluctantly bought the fittings and a 2 metre length of 15mm pipe.
The system was suffering from creaking around the puncture pipe point, so
plastic pipe should cure this too.

I cut back and cleaned the copper, inserted the Speedfit fittings and some
pipe. I explained that plastic fittings are reduced in size from 15mm to
approx 12mm because of the inserts.

Well time to fill up. I always fill with just fresh water in case of a
swift drains down in case of a problems and lose the inhibitor.
Lo-and-behold one Speedfit fitting was ****ing out. A swift drain down. On
inspection the O ring had been pushed out of its housing ring and was
bunched up further down the fitting. The pipe inserted was plastic that
pushed the O ring put. Straight out to buy another fitting before they
closed. Inserted the new fitting and all was fine...well for now. The
expansion creak has gone......but the fittings holding up for a period of
time is another matter. I told him to observe the fittings, and if he
wanted too, I could replace with Marley Equator, Osma Gold or Hep2O, or
better still replace with copper. He said he will let me know, which will
mean if it is OK for a week or so he will leave it because he can't be
bothered. Which will mean if they **** out again he comes around to me
again on a bank holiday Monday.




So you had no tools or parts to hand and in your expert opinion, only
poor quality parts were available. Perhaps you should have advised your
friend to call someone else.

Nick Brooks

"Nick Brooks" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:
A friend had an accident late yesterday. he rammed a nail through a CH
pipe
under the floor. He pleaded with me to fix it. It required a small
amount
of pipe and fitting. the first thing was to drain down. I didn't have
any
fittings or soldering equipment to hand, and had to make a distress
purchase
at the local shed. Only Speedfit was available, a system I really do
not
like. I reluctantly bought the fittings and a 2 metre length of 15mm
pipe.
The system was suffering from creaking around the puncture pipe point,
so
plastic pipe should cure this too.

I cut back and cleaned the copper, inserted the Speedfit fittings and
some
pipe. I explained that plastic fittings are reduced in size from 15mm
to
approx 12mm because of the inserts.

Well time to fill up. I always fill with just fresh water in case of a
swift drains down in case of a problems and lose the inhibitor.
Lo-and-behold one Speedfit fitting was ****ing out. A swift drain down.
On
inspection the O ring had been pushed out of its housing ring and was
bunched up further down the fitting. The pipe inserted was plastic
that
pushed the O ring put. Straight out to buy another fitting before they
closed. Inserted the new fitting and all was fine...well for now. The
expansion creak has gone......but the fittings holding up for a period
of
time is another matter. I told him to observe the fittings, and if he
wanted too, I could replace with Marley Equator, Osma Gold or Hep2O, or
better still replace with copper. He said he will let me know, which
will
mean if it is OK for a week or so he will leave it because he can't be
bothered. Which will mean if they **** out again he comes around to me
again on a bank holiday Monday.

So you had no tools or parts to hand and in your expert opinion, only
poor quality parts were available.

Poor quality they certainly were.

Perhaps you should have advised your
friend to call someone else.

On a bank holiday Monday? You are probably right.

Are you defending a poor quality system?

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

A hacksaw and trimmed it off with Stanley knife to remove an burred
edges.

ROFL!! You're a real pro...

What Hepworth say...


We do recommend the use of a Hep2O pipe cutter, however any pipe cutter
designed to cut plastics pipes should be suitable. One of the major
advantages of a purpose designed cutter is speed, however the requirements
for the cutter are that it should cut the tube square without scoring or
scratching the pipe or leaving burrs or swarf which could get under the 'O'
ring. It is for this reason that hacksaws should not be used.

The inventive can find many ways of achieving a perfectly acceptable clean,
square cut using a variety of tools.

The Hepworth Plumbing Products Team


An amateur will make a hash of it if the cutters are not available. You see
a professional will achieve a nice burr free square cut with tools
available.

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

A hacksaw and trimmed it off with Stanley knife to remove an burred
edges.

ROFL!! You're a real pro...

What Hepworth say...


We do recommend the use of a Hep2O pipe cutter, however any pipe cutter
designed to cut plastics pipes should be suitable. One of the major
advantages of a purpose designed cutter is speed, however the requirements
for the cutter are that it should cut the tube square without scoring or
scratching the pipe or leaving burrs or swarf which could get under the
'O'
ring. It is for this reason that hacksaws should not be used.

The inventive can find many ways of achieving a perfectly acceptable
clean,
square cut using a variety of tools.

The Hepworth Plumbing Products Team


An amateur will make a hash of it if the cutters are not available. You
see
a professional will achieve a nice burr free square cut with tools
available.


I have an open mind on plastic vs copper (and usually use copper).
Nevertheless (and just for interest)...

Call me simple minded (many have) but I can't quite see how quoting a piece
from the manufacturers saying "..hacksaws should not be used.", is in any
way a justification for using hacksaws.


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

IMM wrote:
"Nick Brooks" wrote in message
...

IMM wrote:

A friend had an accident late yesterday. he rammed a nail through a CH

pipe

under the floor. He pleaded with me to fix it. It required a small

amount

of pipe and fitting. the first thing was to drain down. I didn't have

any

fittings or soldering equipment to hand, and had to make a distress

purchase

at the local shed. Only Speedfit was available, a system I really do

not

like. I reluctantly bought the fittings and a 2 metre length of 15mm

pipe.

The system was suffering from creaking around the puncture pipe point,

so

plastic pipe should cure this too.

I cut back and cleaned the copper, inserted the Speedfit fittings and

some

pipe. I explained that plastic fittings are reduced in size from 15mm

to

approx 12mm because of the inserts.

Well time to fill up. I always fill with just fresh water in case of a
swift drains down in case of a problems and lose the inhibitor.
Lo-and-behold one Speedfit fitting was ****ing out. A swift drain down.

On

inspection the O ring had been pushed out of its housing ring and was
bunched up further down the fitting. The pipe inserted was plastic

that

pushed the O ring put. Straight out to buy another fitting before they
closed. Inserted the new fitting and all was fine...well for now. The
expansion creak has gone......but the fittings holding up for a period

of

time is another matter. I told him to observe the fittings, and if he
wanted too, I could replace with Marley Equator, Osma Gold or Hep2O, or
better still replace with copper. He said he will let me know, which

will

mean if it is OK for a week or so he will leave it because he can't be
bothered. Which will mean if they **** out again he comes around to me
again on a bank holiday Monday.

So you had no tools or parts to hand and in your expert opinion, only
poor quality parts were available.


Poor quality they certainly were.


Perhaps you should have advised your
friend to call someone else.


On a bank holiday Monday? You are probably right.

Are you defending a poor quality system?



No. I'm question your judgement in fitting parts YOU considered were
substandard

"Nick Brooks" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:
"Nick Brooks" wrote in message
...

IMM wrote:

A friend had an accident late yesterday. he rammed a nail through a CH

pipe

under the floor. He pleaded with me to fix it. It required a small

amount

of pipe and fitting. the first thing was to drain down. I didn't have

any

fittings or soldering equipment to hand, and had to make a distress

purchase

at the local shed. Only Speedfit was available, a system I really do

not

like. I reluctantly bought the fittings and a 2 metre length of 15mm

pipe.

The system was suffering from creaking around the puncture pipe point,

so

plastic pipe should cure this too.

I cut back and cleaned the copper, inserted the Speedfit fittings and

some

pipe. I explained that plastic fittings are reduced in size from 15mm

to

approx 12mm because of the inserts.

Well time to fill up. I always fill with just fresh water in case of a
swift drains down in case of a problems and lose the inhibitor.
Lo-and-behold one Speedfit fitting was ****ing out. A swift drain
down.

On

inspection the O ring had been pushed out of its housing ring and was
bunched up further down the fitting. The pipe inserted was plastic

that

pushed the O ring put. Straight out to buy another fitting before
they
closed. Inserted the new fitting and all was fine...well for now. The
expansion creak has gone......but the fittings holding up for a period

of

time is another matter. I told him to observe the fittings, and if he
wanted too, I could replace with Marley Equator, Osma Gold or Hep2O, or
better still replace with copper. He said he will let me know, which

will

mean if it is OK for a week or so he will leave it because he can't be
bothered. Which will mean if they **** out again he comes around to me
again on a bank holiday Monday.

So you had no tools or parts to hand and in your expert opinion, only
poor quality parts were available.

Poor quality they certainly were.

Perhaps you should have advised your
friend to call someone else.

On a bank holiday Monday? You are probably right.

Are you defending a poor quality system?

No. I'm question your judgement in fitting parts YOU considered were
substandard

A professional see can the merits of a good or bad design and quality of
materials used. Speedfit fail on both points. What amazes me, is that the
fittings are not exactly cheap either. Superior systems are generally
cheaper than Speedfit.

Polyplumb and Hep2O are superior in that you can ensure the O ring is on the
pipe by dismantling the fittings and sliding on the O ring and grab ring.
The problem with these is that they are bulky and ugly looking. Polyplumb
is the only plastic H&C pipe maker I know that an appliance maker does not
recommend.

"mrcheerful" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...
A friend had an accident late yesterday. he rammed a nail through a CH
pipe
under the floor. He pleaded with me to fix it. It required a small
amount
of pipe and fitting. the first thing was to drain down. I didn't have
any
fittings or soldering equipment to hand, and had to make a distress
purchase
at the local shed. Only Speedfit was available, a system I really do
not
like. I reluctantly bought the fittings and a 2 metre length of 15mm
pipe.
The system was suffering from creaking around the puncture pipe point,
so
plastic pipe should cure this too.

I cut back and cleaned the copper, inserted the Speedfit fittings and
some
pipe. I explained that plastic fittings are reduced in size from 15mm
to
approx 12mm because of the inserts.

Well time to fill up. I always fill with just fresh water in case of a
swift drains down in case of a problems and lose the inhibitor.
Lo-and-behold one Speedfit fitting was ****ing out. A swift drain down.
On
inspection the O ring had been pushed out of its housing ring and was
bunched up further down the fitting. The pipe inserted was plastic
that
pushed the O ring put. Straight out to buy another fitting before they
closed. Inserted the new fitting and all was fine...well for now. The
expansion creak has gone......but the fittings holding up for a period
of
time is another matter. I told him to observe the fittings, and if he
wanted too, I could replace with Marley Equator, Osma Gold or Hep2O, or
better still replace with copper. He said he will let me know, which
will
mean if it is OK for a week or so he will leave it because he can't be
bothered. Which will mean if they **** out again he comes around to me
again on a bank holiday Monday.

Just shows that even idiot proof systems are no match for you.

Idiot proof? You are marketing sucker. An ad' mans dream.

"IMM" wrote in message
...
A friend had an accident late yesterday. he rammed a nail through a CH
pipe
under the floor. He pleaded with me to fix it. It required a small
amount
of pipe and fitting. the first thing was to drain down. I didn't have
any
fittings or soldering equipment to hand, and had to make a distress
purchase
at the local shed. Only Speedfit was available, a system I really do not
like. I reluctantly bought the fittings and a 2 metre length of 15mm
pipe.
The system was suffering from creaking around the puncture pipe point, so
plastic pipe should cure this too.

I cut back and cleaned the copper, inserted the Speedfit fittings and some
pipe. I explained that plastic fittings are reduced in size from 15mm to
approx 12mm because of the inserts.

Well time to fill up. I always fill with just fresh water in case of a
swift drains down in case of a problems and lose the inhibitor.
Lo-and-behold one Speedfit fitting was ****ing out. A swift drain down.
On
inspection the O ring had been pushed out of its housing ring and was
bunched up further down the fitting. The pipe inserted was plastic that
pushed the O ring put. Straight out to buy another fitting before they
closed. Inserted the new fitting and all was fine...well for now. The
expansion creak has gone......but the fittings holding up for a period of
time is another matter. I told him to observe the fittings, and if he
wanted too, I could replace with Marley Equator, Osma Gold or Hep2O, or
better still replace with copper. He said he will let me know, which will
mean if it is OK for a week or so he will leave it because he can't be
bothered. Which will mean if they **** out again he comes around to me
again on a bank holiday Monday.

Just shows that even idiot proof systems are no match for you.

mrcheerful

Bob Mannix wrote

Call me simple minded (many have) but I can't quite see how quoting a piece
from the manufacturers saying "..hacksaws should not be used.", is in any
way a justification for using hacksaws.

Just what I was going to say. He says he trimmed it with a Stanley knife - it
would have been simpler, quicker and a better result to just cut the pipe with
that!

Peter

"Peter Taylor" wrote in message
...
Bob Mannix wrote

Call me simple minded (many have) but I
can't quite see how quoting a piece
from the manufacturers saying "..hacksaws should
not be used.", is in any
way a justification for using hacksaws.

It is clear they meant just cutting with a hacksaw and nothing else. They
also said "The inventive can find many ways of achieving a perfectly
acceptable clean,square cut using a variety of tools.". Which I did.

Just what I was going to say. He says he trimmed it with a Stanley
knife - it
would have been simpler, quicker and a better result to just cut the pipe
with
that!

No. The hacksaw gives a square cut and the Stanley knife trims off. You
could just use a Stanley knife, but getting a square cut is difficult and
cutting though the pipe would be difficult.

On Tue, 4 May 2004 16:19:30 +0100, "IMM" wrote:

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 4 May 2004 15:46:24 +0100, "IMM" wrote:

Well time to fill up. I always fill with just fresh water in case of a
swift drains down in case of a problems and lose the inhibitor.
Lo-and-behold one Speedfit fitting was ****ing out. A swift drain down.
On
inspection the O ring had been pushed out of its housing ring and was
bunched up further down the fitting. The pipe inserted was plastic that
pushed the O ring put.

What did you use to cut the pipe

A hacksaw and trimmed it off with Stanley knife to remove an burred edges.
The insert butted right up against the pipe. The insert was not the
problem, the problem was the poor fittings...fittings made by an ex toy
maker. The toy box is the best place for them.



That's wrong. They specifically tell you to use a proper cutter and
not a hacksaw so that the pipe is cut properly square and doesn't have
burred ends in the first place.

If you don't follow the manufacturer's instructions then any criticism
of the product is a waste of time.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Tue, 4 May 2004 17:03:44 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Grunff" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

A hacksaw and trimmed it off with Stanley knife to remove an burred
edges.

ROFL!! You're a real pro...

What Hepworth say...


We do recommend the use of a Hep2O pipe cutter, however any pipe cutter
designed to cut plastics pipes should be suitable. One of the major
advantages of a purpose designed cutter is speed, however the requirements
for the cutter are that it should cut the tube square without scoring or
scratching the pipe or leaving burrs or swarf which could get under the 'O'
ring. It is for this reason that hacksaws should not be used.

The inventive can find many ways of achieving a perfectly acceptable clean,
square cut using a variety of tools.

which does not include a hacksaw.



The Hepworth Plumbing Products Team


An amateur will make a hash of it if the cutters are not available. You see
a professional will achieve a nice burr free square cut with tools
available.

I think not. A professional would have the proper tools.

This is a typical example of your "doing it on the cheap" mentality,
and this time you have come unstuck.

Trying to then pretend that the product is faulty is ridiculous and
fools nobody except yourself.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

If you don't follow the manufacturer's instructions then any criticism
of the product is a waste of time.

Particularly as the result of using the hacksaw is exactly as they described
in the instructions.

Christian.

What is it with the copper thing?

Plastic pipe has a higher impact resistance than copper, is not prone
to
corrosion in harsh environments, is more insulating than copper
resulting in
reduced heat loss on pipe runs where it is wasted heat, appears (at
least
for most of us) to be capable of carrying fluids without leakage, is
more
flexible - enabling joists to be drilled not notched thereby improving
the
structural stability of my house and reducing the chances of "ramming"
a
nail through it in the first place, oh and its quicker to assemble and
easier for the layman (with appropriate tools I accept!) to get right,
thereby offsetting the increased purchase cost with reduced labour
charges,
on top of which its easier to make changes to layout. In fact having
entirely replumbed my last house central heating and all in plastic
(except
1st metre from boiler) the only place where I found copper more
attractive
was when it came to retro-fitting a garden tap, where it was only
preferable
because B&Q sold a garden tap kit including a self cutting tap, for
less
than the price of a bib tap with a non-return valve. Hence I undid 2
of my
plastic connectors (one speedfit, 1 Hep - easy job) and inserted a
short
length of copper pipe to enable the self cutter to work. Oh and by the
way I
forgot to mention that plastic pipe reduces the risk of electric shock
particularly in bathroom and kitchen environments.

Sorry to rant, but sometimes you just have to!

Fash

Incidentally I agree with most of the other posts on this subject and
suspect that knawing through the pipe with my teeth I could still
effect a water-tight joint.

On Tue, 4 May 2004 17:49:24 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Peter Taylor" wrote in message
.. .
Bob Mannix wrote

Call me simple minded (many have) but I
can't quite see how quoting a piece
from the manufacturers saying "..hacksaws should
not be used.", is in any
way a justification for using hacksaws.

It is clear they meant just cutting with a hacksaw and nothing else. They
also said "The inventive can find many ways of achieving a perfectly
acceptable clean,square cut using a variety of tools.". Which I did.

Clearly you didn't or you fumbled the job in some other way.

I've used Speedfit as well as other brands on numerous occasions and
simply followed the instructions,. I've never had any problems.


Just what I was going to say. He says he trimmed it with a Stanley
knife - it
would have been simpler, quicker and a better result to just cut the pipe
with
that!

No. The hacksaw gives a square cut and the Stanley knife trims off. You
could just use a Stanley knife, but getting a square cut is difficult and
cutting though the pipe would be difficult.

The recommended way is to use a pipe cutter, and it is quite obvious
why.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 4 May 2004 16:19:30 +0100, "IMM" wrote:

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 4 May 2004 15:46:24 +0100, "IMM" wrote:

Well time to fill up. I always fill with just fresh water in case of
a
swift drains down in case of a problems and lose the inhibitor.
Lo-and-behold one Speedfit fitting was ****ing out. A swift drain
down.
On
inspection the O ring had been pushed out of its housing ring and was
bunched up further down the fitting. The pipe inserted was plastic
that
pushed the O ring put.

What did you use to cut the pipe

A hacksaw and trimmed it off with Stanley knife to remove an burred
edges.
The insert butted right up against the pipe. The insert was not the
problem, the problem was the poor fittings...fittings made by an ex toy
maker. The toy box is the best place for them.



That's wrong. They specifically tell you to use a proper cutter and
not a hacksaw so that the pipe is cut properly square and doesn't have
burred ends in the first place.

If you don't follow the manufacturer's instructions then any criticism
of the product is a waste of time.

Total balls. I know how to cut plastic square with no sharp or burred edges.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 4 May 2004 17:03:44 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Grunff" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

A hacksaw and trimmed it off with Stanley knife to remove an burred
edges.

ROFL!! You're a real pro...

What Hepworth say...


We do recommend the use of a Hep2O pipe cutter, however any pipe cutter
designed to cut plastics pipes should be suitable. One of the major
advantages of a purpose designed cutter is speed, however the
requirements
for the cutter are that it should cut the tube square without scoring or
scratching the pipe or leaving burrs or swarf which could get under the
'O'
ring. It is for this reason that hacksaws should not be used.

The inventive can find many ways of achieving a perfectly acceptable
clean,
square cut using a variety of tools.

which does not include a hacksaw.

Never said that.

The Hepworth Plumbing Products Team


An amateur will make a hash of it if the cutters are not available. You
see
a professional will achieve a nice burr free square cut with tools
available.

I think not. A professional would have the proper tools.

If he was doing a job during the day, not helping out during the evening.

Trying to then pretend that the product
is faulty is ridiculous

The product is poor. How would you know anyway?

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
If you don't follow the manufacturer's instructions then any criticism
of the product is a waste of time.

Particularly as the result of using the hacksaw is exactly as they
described
in the instructions.

The idea is to get a square burr free cut. This was achieved. Even
Hepworth say you don't need the makers cutters.

"Stephen Fasham" wrote in message
om...
What is it with the copper thing?

Plastic pipe has a higher impact resistance
than copper,

You mean it is resilient.

is not prone to corrosion in harsh environments,

A domestic house is not a harsh environment.

is more insulating than copper
resulting in reduced heat loss on pipe
runs where it is wasted heat,

You are supposed to lag "all" pipes anyhow, so not relevant.

appears (at least for most of us) to be capable
of carrying fluids without leakage,

You have little experience of plastic then.

is more flexible - enabling joists to be drilled
not notched thereby improving
the structural stability of my house and
reducing the chances of "ramming"
a nail through it in the first place,

Poor workman ship cannot be accounted for.

oh and its quicker to assemble and
easier for the layman (with appropriate tools
I accept!) to get right, thereby offsetting the
increased purchase cost with reduced labour
charges, on top of which its easier to make
changes to layout.

In short, it is amied at naive DIYers.

In fact having entirely replumbed my last house
central heating and all in plastic (except
1st metre from boiler)

Wait and see.

the only place where I found copper more
attractive was when it came to retro-fitting
a garden tap, where it was only
preferable because B&Q sold a garden tap
kit including a self cutting tap, for
less than the price of a bib tap with a
non-return valve. Hence I undid 2
of my plastic connectors (one speedfit,
1 Hep - easy job) and inserted a
short length of copper pipe to enable the
self cutter to work.

A professional does not install such rubbish. He does it properly.

Oh and by the way I forgot to mention that
plastic pipe reduces the risk of electric shock
particularly in bathroom and kitchen environments.

You should have the earthing done properly.

Sorry to rant, but sometimes you just have to!

Best you don't and you made a fool of yourself.

Incidentally I agree with most of the
other posts on this subject

Which say what?

and suspect that knawing through the pipe
with my teeth I could still
effect a water-tight joint.

Could you prevent the O ring from taking a walk as well?

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 4 May 2004 17:49:24 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Peter Taylor" wrote in message
.. .
Bob Mannix wrote

Call me simple minded (many have) but I
can't quite see how quoting a piece
from the manufacturers saying "..hacksaws should
not be used.", is in any
way a justification for using hacksaws.

It is clear they meant just cutting with a hacksaw and nothing else.
They
also said "The inventive can find many ways of achieving a perfectly
acceptable clean,square cut using a variety of tools.". Which I did.

Clearly you didn't or you fumbled the job in some other way.

I did not. A square clean cut with no burrs.

I've used Speedfit as well as other brands
on numerous occasions and
simply followed the instructions,.

I folowed them too and the O ring went for a walk. Poor quality. Best you
rip out all this crap you have installed and do it properly.

I've never had any problems.

More you are lucky.

No. The hacksaw gives a square cut and the Stanley knife trims off. You
could just use a Stanley knife, but getting a square cut is difficult and
cutting though the pipe would be difficult.

The recommended way is to use a pipe cutter,

So do Hepworth but say you can get a square clean cut in other ways too. A
had a square clean cut.

and it is quite obvious why.

What are you on about?

"Mark" wrote in message
news:U9Rlc.113$3K6.85@newsfe1-win...
IMM typed:



What Hepworth say...


We do recommend the use of a Hep2O pipe cutter,

It is for this reason that
hacksaws should not be used.

The inventive can find many ways of achieving a perfectly acceptable
clean, square cut using a variety of tools.

An amateur will make a hash of it if the cutters are not available.

Well I think you have just quoted the problem,
If you had chamfered the edge of the pipe
correctly this would not have happened.
Amateur is perhaps a fair description.

You are defending a poor product. Use it if you like. Make them millions
while ceilings collapse because of failures. Be my guest. get flooded out,
you deserve too.

IMM typed:



What Hepworth say...


We do recommend the use of a Hep2O pipe cutter,

It is for this reason that
hacksaws should not be used.

The inventive can find many ways of achieving a perfectly acceptable
clean, square cut using a variety of tools.


An amateur will make a hash of it if the cutters are not available.

Well I think you have just quoted the problem,
If you had chamfered the edge of the pipe correctly this would not have
happened.
Amateur is perhaps a fair description.

In article , IMM
writes
A friend had an accident late yesterday. he rammed a nail through a CH pipe
under the floor. He pleaded with me to fix it. It required a small amount
of pipe and fitting. the first thing was to drain down. I didn't have any
fittings or soldering equipment to hand, and had to make a distress purchase
at the local shed. Only Speedfit was available, a system I really do not
like. I reluctantly bought the fittings and a 2 metre length of 15mm pipe.
The system was suffering from creaking around the puncture pipe point, so
plastic pipe should cure this too.

I cut back and cleaned the copper, inserted the Speedfit fittings and some
pipe. I explained that plastic fittings are reduced in size from 15mm to
approx 12mm because of the inserts.

Well time to fill up. I always fill with just fresh water in case of a
swift drains down in case of a problems and lose the inhibitor.
Lo-and-behold one Speedfit fitting was ****ing out. A swift drain down. On
inspection the O ring had been pushed out of its housing ring and was
bunched up further down the fitting. The pipe inserted was plastic that
pushed the O ring put. Straight out to buy another fitting before they
closed. Inserted the new fitting and all was fine...well for now. The
expansion creak has gone......but the fittings holding up for a period of
time is another matter. I told him to observe the fittings, and if he
wanted too, I could replace with Marley Equator, Osma Gold or Hep2O, or
better still replace with copper. He said he will let me know, which will
mean if it is OK for a week or so he will leave it because he can't be
bothered. Which will mean if they **** out again he comes around to me
again on a bank holiday Monday.

Can I suggest that your friend gets somebody next time who knows what
they are doing, getting the bloke up the road who professes to know how
to do things is a recipe for a disaster, better to stick with people who
have a proven track record rather than the local bodger, get him to ask
on this group where he can get some sound advice.

--
David

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 4 May 2004 17:03:44 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Grunff" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

A hacksaw and trimmed it off with Stanley knife to remove an burred
edges.

ROFL!! You're a real pro...

What Hepworth say...


We do recommend the use of a Hep2O pipe cutter, however any pipe cutter
designed to cut plastics pipes should be suitable. One of the major
advantages of a purpose designed cutter is speed, however the
requirements
for the cutter are that it should cut the tube square without scoring or
scratching the pipe or leaving burrs or swarf which could get under the
'O'
ring. It is for this reason that hacksaws should not be used.

The inventive can find many ways of achieving a perfectly acceptable
clean,
square cut using a variety of tools.

which does not include a hacksaw.



The Hepworth Plumbing Products Team


An amateur will make a hash of it if the cutters are not available. You
see
a professional will achieve a nice burr free square cut with tools
available.

I think not. A professional would have the proper tools.

This is a typical example of your "doing it on the cheap" mentality,
and this time you have come unstuck.

Trying to then pretend that the product is faulty is ridiculous and
fools nobody except yourself.


.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

I have been using speedfit for years and have only had one failure, and that
was using it on chromed pipe. On readnig the booklet it says not suitable
for chromed pipe. Learnt the hard way that day, however, I always use the
correct cutter and have never had a failure.

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
If you don't follow the manufacturer's instructions then any criticism
of the product is a waste of time.

Particularly as the result of using the hacksaw is exactly as they
described
in the instructions.

The idea is to get a square burr free cut. This was achieved. Even
Hepworth say you don't need the makers cutters.



But it is not Hepworth, it is JG Speedfit.

wrote in message
...
In article , IMM
writes
A friend had an accident late yesterday. he rammed a nail through a CH
pipe
under the floor. He pleaded with me to fix it. It required a small
amount
of pipe and fitting. the first thing was to drain down. I didn't have
any
fittings or soldering equipment to hand, and had to make a distress
purchase
at the local shed. Only Speedfit was available, a system I really do not
like. I reluctantly bought the fittings and a 2 metre length of 15mm
pipe.
The system was suffering from creaking around the puncture pipe point, so
plastic pipe should cure this too.

I cut back and cleaned the copper, inserted the Speedfit fittings and
some
pipe. I explained that plastic fittings are reduced in size from 15mm to
approx 12mm because of the inserts.

Well time to fill up. I always fill with just fresh water in case of a
swift drains down in case of a problems and lose the inhibitor.
Lo-and-behold one Speedfit fitting was ****ing out. A swift drain down.
On
inspection the O ring had been pushed out of its housing ring and was
bunched up further down the fitting. The pipe inserted was plastic that
pushed the O ring put. Straight out to buy another fitting before they
closed. Inserted the new fitting and all was fine...well for now. The
expansion creak has gone......but the fittings holding up for a period of
time is another matter. I told him to observe the fittings, and if he
wanted too, I could replace with Marley Equator, Osma Gold or Hep2O, or
better still replace with copper. He said he will let me know, which
will
mean if it is OK for a week or so he will leave it because he can't be
bothered. Which will mean if they **** out again he comes around to me
again on a bank holiday Monday.

snip drivel

Bertie, how is the clinic these days/?

"Stephen Dawson" wrote in message
news:VvRlc.95$3s2.4@newsfe6-win...

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 4 May 2004 17:03:44 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Grunff" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

A hacksaw and trimmed it off with Stanley knife to remove an burred
edges.

ROFL!! You're a real pro...

What Hepworth say...


We do recommend the use of a Hep2O pipe cutter, however any pipe cutter
designed to cut plastics pipes should be suitable. One of the major
advantages of a purpose designed cutter is speed, however the
requirements
for the cutter are that it should cut the tube square without scoring
or
scratching the pipe or leaving burrs or swarf which could get under the
'O'
ring. It is for this reason that hacksaws should not be used.

The inventive can find many ways of achieving a perfectly acceptable
clean,
square cut using a variety of tools.

which does not include a hacksaw.



The Hepworth Plumbing Products Team


An amateur will make a hash of it if the cutters are not available.
You
see
a professional will achieve a nice burr free square cut with tools
available.

I think not. A professional would have the proper tools.

This is a typical example of your "doing it on the cheap" mentality,
and this time you have come unstuck.

Trying to then pretend that the product is faulty is ridiculous and
fools nobody except yourself.


.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

I have been using speedfit for years and have only had one failure, and
that
was using it on chromed pipe. On readnig the booklet it says not suitable
for chromed pipe.

They now say it is suitable for chromed pipe. They can't make minds up.

Learnt the hard way that day, however, I always use the
correct cutter and have never had a failure.

You are a luck DIYer then. Take heed if you don't want a big problems.