"IMM" wrote in message
...
A friend had an accident late yesterday. he rammed a nail through a CH
pipe
under the floor. He pleaded with me to fix it. It required a small
amount
SNIP
If you are a Pro and have been for so long, why did you have to go out and
buy such basic parts???????????
Baz

"IMM" wrote in message
...

300 kbytes cut

Then you should know better. That's if you are a pro and not just a
jobber.
Polyplumb is reusable, using a new O ring.

Actually it needs a new grab ring as well. But the idiots there have
stopped selling the O rings and grab rings separately and you now have to
buy all the plastic bits you don't need as well in a rebuild kit that makes
it cheaper to buy T pieces for replacements.

Suffice it to say I've stopped using PP.

On Wed, 5 May 2004 19:05:35 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 5 May 2004 18:07:05 +0100, "IMM" wrote:



I also read the instructions and used the recommended pipe cutter,
curve formers etc.

I don't bodge things or do them on the cheap, you see.

That is nice to know. Pity you know nothing of the design.

There's very little *to* know.

You follow the instructions and it works without problems.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Wed, 5 May 2004 19:07:05 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Stephen Dawson" wrote in message
news

I have been following this thread all along, and there is one thing
troubling me about the initial post, I cannot believe the sheds did not
have
a couple of No.1 compression and a length of copper.

The local shed a copper pipe, but only one 15mm compression tee. Much
sadness all around.

Still IMM seems to now everything about
JG and it's failings, shame he does
not admit his own.

I have no failings.

Like I said. There is only one way that you can go from that
position.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 5 May 2004 19:05:35 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 5 May 2004 18:07:05 +0100, "IMM" wrote:



I also read the instructions and used the recommended pipe cutter,
curve formers etc.

I don't bodge things or do them on the cheap, you see.

That is nice to know. Pity you know nothing of the design.

There's very little *to* know.

You follow the instructions and it works without problems.

tsk, tsk.

"pjdesign" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...
A friend had an accident late yesterday. he rammed a nail through a CH
pipe
under the floor. He pleaded with me to fix it. It required a small
amount
SNIP
If you are a Pro and have been for so long, why did you have to go out and
buy such basic parts???????????

If you read properly, which you didn't. It was a distress purchase.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 5 May 2004 19:07:05 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Stephen Dawson" wrote in message
news

I have been following this thread all along, and there is one thing
troubling me about the initial post, I cannot believe the sheds did not
have
a couple of No.1 compression and a length of copper.

The local shed a copper pipe, but only one 15mm compression tee. Much
sadness all around.

Still IMM seems to now everything about
JG and it's failings, shame he does
not admit his own.

I have no failings.

Like I said. There is only one way that you can go from that
position.

I just stay in the same position.

"pjdesign" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...
SNIP

Good quality compression fitting are highly unlikely to fail. You get
what
you pay for.

Don't think so.
Take a look at this.
http://www.wordsun.com/pip80.htm

I did and concluded you are mad. We are on about domestic pipe fitting, not
those on North Sea rigs.

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"pjdesign" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...
SNIP

Good quality compression fitting are highly unlikely to fail. You get
what
you pay for.

Don't think so.
Take a look at this.
http://www.wordsun.com/pip80.htm

I did and concluded you are mad. We are on about domestic pipe fitting,
not
those on North Sea rigs.


You said "Good Quality Compression Fittings" and Parker are in the top five.
Baz

"pjdesign" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"pjdesign" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...
SNIP

Good quality compression fitting are highly unlikely to fail. You
get
what
you pay for.

Don't think so.
Take a look at this.
http://www.wordsun.com/pip80.htm

I did and concluded you are mad. We are on about domestic pipe fitting,
not
those on North Sea rigs.


You said "Good Quality Compression Fittings" and Parker are in the top
five.
Baz

You obviously don't get it.

On Tue, 4 May 2004 16:37:04 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Grunff" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

A hacksaw and trimmed it off with Stanley knife to remove an burred
edges.

ROFL!! You're a real pro...

I am. No cutter available so did the same thing with two other tools. You
would have left the job and waited another day to buy a £20 cutter. Sad
isn't it. How amateur.

The insert butted right up against the pipe. The insert was not the
problem, the problem was the poor fittings...fittings made by an ex toy
maker. The toy box is the best place for them.

And for your junior hacksaw.

You have junior hacksaws in your kids toy box! How irresponsible!


No he'd have already had a cutter just in case, poor workman blames
his tools...

Mark S.

"Mark S." wrote in message
...
On Tue, 4 May 2004 16:37:04 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Grunff" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

A hacksaw and trimmed it off with Stanley knife to remove an burred
edges.

ROFL!! You're a real pro...

I am. No cutter available so did the same thing with two other tools.
You
would have left the job and waited another day to buy a £20 cutter. Sad
isn't it. How amateur.

The insert butted right up against the pipe. The insert was not the
problem, the problem was the poor fittings...fittings made by an ex
toy
maker. The toy box is the best place for them.

And for your junior hacksaw.

You have junior hacksaws in your kids toy box! How irresponsible!


No he'd have already had a cutter just in case, poor workman blames
his tools...

A cutter for the tots to play with? How bizarre.

In article , IMM
writes

I am. No cutter available so did the same thing with two other tools.

You've claimed in various posts over the years to have installed at
least several dozen boilers in addition to other plumbing work, and you
didn't "have a cutter available" for this job. I think you've just
outed yourself as an armchair critic with no real-life experience.

--
A. Top posters.
Q. What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

In article , IMM
writes

So, over 100% of the cost. No wonder they insist on their tools being used.

"A fool knows the price of everything and the value of nothing".
Sums you up to a T.

Also explains your propensity to buying cheap and nasty power tools when
buying a decent brand would be a far better investment.

--
A. Top posters.
Q. What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

In article , IMM
writes

No cock on my part.

All cock and no balls, I'd have said.

--
A. Top posters.
Q. What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

In article , IMM
writes

wrote in message
.. .
In article , IMM
writes

wrote in message
.. .
In article , IMM

writes

wrote in message
.. .
In article , IMM

writes
The product was faulty. Very clear. If I say it was faulty...it
was
faulty. I need no amateur to tell me that or not.

Bertie,..

snip tripe

Now lets count who hasn't had a failure, there's me...

So you have fitted a few of these. I know of many failures in the field.
Feedback is poor on these.

snip tripe by Bertie

Is that really the best you can do? what a nitwit

--
David

In article , Grunff
writes

But you've said on many occasions that you've "used xxx product" - does
that mean /used/ or /watched someone use/?

It means s/h/it's read the manufacturer's press release and believes
every word.

--
A. Top posters.
Q. What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

In article , IMM
writes
Bertie, NO mistake. Only mistake was to use Speedfit. I viewed as
temporary. It may be just that. Rippy outy is a 90% certainty.

That's OK John we all mistakes, its good that you can admit it, but if
you do it again make sure you use the right tools and procedure

Bertie, a temporary DIY solution it is. Best do it properly with real pipe
and fittings.

Now you're getting it, order a proper cutter tomorrow so that you have
one ready, you might get some spare plastic pipe and practice cutting it

--
David

In article , IMM
writes

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 5 May 2004 09:22:04 +0100, "IMM" wrote:

It would be a good idea to have the tools next time - it reduces the
chance of failure...

It would be a good idea not use plastic pipe in the first place. Now go and
rip that DIY plastic crap out of your house NOW, before the ceiling falls
though.

John don't judge the material on your inability to use it correctly,
there are millions of installations that have been carried out without
any problems, the material works well and will eventually replace copper
as the number one choice for the majority of pipework

--
David

In article , sPoNiX
writes
On 4 May 2004 10:13:39 -0700, (Stephen
Fasham) wrote:

appears to be capable of carrying fluids without leakage

snip

However, the rubber 'O' rings will need replacing in 15-20 years time
when they perish. You don't get that problem with copper systems.

sPoNiX

Why do you think the O rings will perish in that short a space of time?
we are installing plastic/rubber based waterproofing systems that have a
life expectancy of 60+years

--
David

In article , IMM
writes

wrote in message
.. .
In article , IMM
writes

wrote in message
.. .
In article , IMM

writes

wrote in message
.. .
In article , IMM

writes

Bertie, how is the clinic these days/?

At least I know how to use plastic pipe,

Bertie, you don't. And you do don't use Speedfit as it is a
poor
product.
A cautionary tale me old chap.

Yes I do,

You fool!

Bertie, you will have many leaks.

None yet because I did it properly,

Bertie, you are a cowboy type. That is clear.


Bertie, you don't them for a living. You don't know.

snip stuff by Bertie

I "don't" them, sorry John you'll have to explain that

--
David

--
David

In article , IMM
writes

wrote in message
.. .
In article , IMM
writes

wrote in message
.. .
In article , IMM
writes
In first fix on new builds I have seen professionals do soldered jobs
faster
than using plastic pushfit.

No you haven't, you're making that up, I've told you before about
telling porkies on newsgroups

Bertie, how is the cowboy game going?

Sorry John you've lost me there

Bertie, this means how are you going along incompetently fitting pipes and
making money out of it.

John I'm not a plumber like you, I don't make money out of fitting pipes

--
David

In message , Grunff
writes
IMM wrote:

Well time to fill up. I always fill with just fresh water in case of a
swift drains down in case of a problems and lose the inhibitor.
Lo-and-behold one Speedfit fitting was ****ing out. A swift drain down. On
inspection the O ring had been pushed out of its housing ring and was
bunched up further down the fitting. The pipe inserted was plastic that
pushed the O ring put.

This isn't the first time you've mentioned something like this. What
insert did you use? I've found it nearly impossible to intentionally
dislodge an O ring from a SpeedFit fitting.

Because, when it comes to doing practical things, computer simulations
just aren't up to it
--
geoff

In article , IMM
writes

"Stephen Fasham" wrote in message
. com...
Plastic might only have 10% of the market, but it might be worth
looking at the growth figures. I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm
wrong, but is that not an INCREASING market share. I have friends who
have recently bought new houses which were plumbed and heated in
plastic (and what's worse it was microbore!). The thing is that the
construction industry in general moves forward incredibly slowly in
the UK. Why are we still building houses like we did 50 years ago?
Mostly because it suits the construction industry to do so. We don't
use prefabrication since regulation (i.e. health and safety
requirements) is less stringent on site than in a factory environment.
Plus there is the simple point that plumbers etc. generally make their
money on labour costs NOT on parts, so where is the incentive
(particularly in refurbishment) to use labour saving techniques. If I
were getting paid for every joint I made (which is basically the case
when I employ a plumber) I'd use 3m lengths of pipe and a blowtorch
rather than a 25m coil.

Wake up! Smell the coffee! (It smells of plastic!)

Many new houses have the first fix in plastic. This is so unskilled labour
can fit it and the Pikies do not steal it overnight. The second fix is done
by a professional, who fits copper where pipe is seen, as many people will
not entertain plastic pipes in a house and are liable to walk and not buy.

Plastic is gaining market share, but very slowly. The designs have not
settled, with most big players constantly redesigning their fittings.
Hepworth and Speedfit have recently done this. This does not inspire
confidence in the professional trade. Some systems are better than others
too, and Speedfit is not one of the better systems. Also, 15mm plastic
fitting are restricted to approx 12mm by the pipe inserts of plastic.
Similar with 22mm and 28mm. A point many people forget.

A good pipe fitter can fit soldered copper as fast as any plastic. What
pipe fitters, especially the self employed, do not want is a call back where
they are not paid. Plastic has had too many failures, so they treat it with
caution, using it only when the need arises. Copper is a safer bet for
reliability and customer satisfaction.

I know many backup plumbers on sites, the ones that attend the problems
after the owner has moved in. Few have a good word for plastic. It is not
forgiving if the pipe and fitting are not square on and there is stress on
the fitting. A soldered or compression copper joint will not suffer this.
Once home, if soldered or tightened up they are sound. Good pipe fitters
will not use cheap compression joints either, only branded fittings. You
get what you pay for.

John, you're talking absolute ********, I suggest you get away from the
computer and go out and see what's happening in the real world,

Here cut and paste this "snip tripe from Bertie" it will save you the
trouble of typing

--
David

In message , IMM
writes
"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 4 May 2004 15:46:24 +0100, "IMM" wrote:

Well time to fill up. I always fill with just fresh water in case of a
swift drains down in case of a problems and lose the inhibitor.
Lo-and-behold one Speedfit fitting was ****ing out. A swift drain down.
On
inspection the O ring had been pushed out of its housing ring and was
bunched up further down the fitting. The pipe inserted was plastic that
pushed the O ring put.

What did you use to cut the pipe

A hacksaw and trimmed it off with Stanley knife to remove an burred edges.
The insert butted right up against the pipe. The insert was not the
problem, the problem was the poor fittings...fittings made by an ex toy
maker. The toy box is the best place for them.


Bad workman tools blames always his

please rearrange in the correct order

--
geoff

In article , IMM
writes

"pjdesign" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"pjdesign" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...
SNIP

Good quality compression fitting are highly unlikely to fail. You
get
what
you pay for.

Don't think so.
Take a look at this.
http://www.wordsun.com/pip80.htm

I did and concluded you are mad. We are on about domestic pipe fitting,
not
those on North Sea rigs.


You said "Good Quality Compression Fittings" and Parker are in the top
five.
Baz

You obviously don't get it.

Ahh the classic John Burns when he's losing an argument (hold on isn't
'john burns' what a hooker suffers from?)

--
David

In message , IMM
writes

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

A hacksaw and trimmed it off with Stanley knife to remove an burred
edges.

ROFL!! You're a real pro...

What Hepworth say...


We do recommend the use of a Hep2O pipe cutter, however any pipe cutter
designed to cut plastics pipes should be suitable. One of the major
advantages of a purpose designed cutter is speed, however the requirements
for the cutter are that it should cut the tube square without scoring or
scratching the pipe or leaving burrs or swarf which could get under the 'O'
ring. It is for this reason that hacksaws should not be used.

The inventive can find many ways of achieving a perfectly acceptable clean,
square cut using a variety of tools.

The Hepworth Plumbing Products Team


An amateur will make a hash of it if the cutters are not available. You see
a professional will achieve a nice burr free square cut with tools
available.


OK lets face it, you made a hash of it

See your post above



--
geoff

"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
In article , IMM
writes

I am. No cutter available so did the same thing with two other tools.

You've claimed in various posts over the years to have installed at
least several dozen boilers in addition to other plumbing work, and you
didn't "have a cutter available" for this job.

No. Tools elsewhere.

I think you've just
outed yourself as an armchair critic with no real-life experience.

You are a fool.

In article , IMM
writes

"RichardS" noaccess@invalid wrote in message
...
"MBQ" wrote in message
om...
snip


Do a Google and the failures on Speedfit is quite common.


You obviously haven't. If you have, shows us the evidence.

Google for "speedfit failure" and you get 58 hits. Having looked at a
few, none of them actually seem to talk about failure of speedfit
fittings.

Hardly common then, is it?

snivelling drip

screwfix plumbing forum has a few stories, but these are equally
distributed
between speedfit, hep2o, and also tales of compression fittings failing.

From The Screwfix plumbing Forum, which the first appears the problem I had,
so quite common....


speedfit
Posted: Jan 26, 2004 7:48 PM Reply

has any body else had a problem with the o ring on the inserts pushing the
ones in the fittings out on 22mm speedfit have admitted to have been sent a
bad batch around last august still waiting four compensation



speedfit
Posted: Jan 27, 2004 9:51 PM Reply


basically speedfit is a pile if ****
(stop ends are ok in the short term)
if the fittings were any good they wouldn't need 'O' rings in the inserts?
i know of a site plumber who had big probs a couple of years ago on a large
site & all that the manufacturer would say was that 'u ain't put em together
properly'
Then within a few weeks, new inserts are launched with 'o' rings
stick with hep2o chap!



hep2o or speedfit
Posted: Apr 21, 2004 9:28 PM Reply

I have had many problems with speedfit ie flux will dissolve grip rings and
insert fitted with dodgey o rings .hep has so far not been a problem


Interesting that two out of three would recommend Hep2o, that would be
my choice too.

--
David

"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...

snip tripe

In message , IMM
writes
,.

I folowed them too and the O ring went for a walk. Poor quality. Best you
rip out all this crap you have installed and do it properly.

I've never had any problems.

More you are lucky.

No. The hacksaw gives a square cut and the Stanley knife trims off. You
could just use a Stanley knife, but getting a square cut is difficult and
cutting though the pipe would be difficult.

The recommended way is to use a pipe cutter,

So do Hepworth but say you can get a square clean cut in other ways too. A
had a square clean cut.

and it is quite obvious why.

What are you on about?


I think he means you haven't got a clue, and shouldn't be let loose on a
half stuffed teddy bear
--
geoff

"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
In article , IMM
writes

No cock on my part.

All cock and no balls, I'd have said.

Oh you are so funny. You must be related to Ricky Tomlinson, as you are
definitely all my arse.

wrote in message
...
In article , IMM
writes

wrote in message
.. .
In article , IMM

writes

wrote in message
.. .
In article , IMM

writes

wrote in message
.. .
In article , IMM

writes
The product was faulty. Very clear. If I say it was
faulty...it
was
faulty. I need no amateur to tell me that or not.

Bertie,..

snip tripe

Now lets count who hasn't had a failure, there's me...

So you have fitted a few of these. I know of many failures in the
field.
Feedback is poor on these.

snip tripe by Bertie

snip tripe by Bertie

"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...

My arse, Tomilnson.

snip tripe

wrote in message
...
In article , IMM
writes
Bertie, NO mistake. Only mistake was to use Speedfit. I viewed as
temporary. It may be just that. Rippy outy is a 90% certainty.

That's OK John we all mistakes, its good that you can admit it, but if
you do it again make sure you use the right tools and procedure

Bertie, a temporary DIY solution it is. Best do it properly with real
pipe
and fittings.

Now you're getting it, order a proper cutter tomorrow

Bertie, I have a cutter.

wrote in message
news
In article , IMM
writes

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 5 May 2004 09:22:04 +0100, "IMM" wrote:

It would be a good idea to have the tools next time - it reduces the
chance of failure...

It would be a good idea not use plastic pipe in the first place. Now go
and
rip that DIY plastic crap out of your house NOW, before the ceiling falls
though.

snip tripe by Bertie

wrote in message
...
In article , sPoNiX
writes
On 4 May 2004 10:13:39 -0700, (Stephen
Fasham) wrote:

appears to be capable of carrying fluids without leakage

snip

However, the rubber 'O' rings will need replacing in 15-20 years time
when they perish. You don't get that problem with copper systems.

sPoNiX

Why do you think the O rings will perish in that short a space of time?
we are installing plastic/rubber based waterproofing systems that have a
life expectancy of 60+years

Bertie, who are these we? What systems?

wrote in message
...
In article , IMM
writes

wrote in message
.. .
In article , IMM

writes

wrote in message
.. .
In article , IMM

writes

wrote in message
.. .
In article , IMM

writes

Bertie, how is the clinic these days/?

At least I know how to use plastic pipe,

Bertie, you don't. And you do don't use Speedfit as it is
a
poor
product.
A cautionary tale me old chap.

Yes I do,

You fool!

Bertie, you will have many leaks.

None yet because I did it properly,

Bertie, you are a cowboy type. That is clear.


Bertie, you don't them for a living. You don't know.

snip stuff by Bertie

snip stuff by Bertie

wrote in message
...
In article , IMM
writes

"Stephen Fasham" wrote in message
. com...
Plastic might only have 10% of the market, but it might be worth
looking at the growth figures. I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm
wrong, but is that not an INCREASING market share. I have friends who
have recently bought new houses which were plumbed and heated in
plastic (and what's worse it was microbore!). The thing is that the
construction industry in general moves forward incredibly slowly in
the UK. Why are we still building houses like we did 50 years ago?
Mostly because it suits the construction industry to do so. We don't
use prefabrication since regulation (i.e. health and safety
requirements) is less stringent on site than in a factory environment.
Plus there is the simple point that plumbers etc. generally make their
money on labour costs NOT on parts, so where is the incentive
(particularly in refurbishment) to use labour saving techniques. If I
were getting paid for every joint I made (which is basically the case
when I employ a plumber) I'd use 3m lengths of pipe and a blowtorch
rather than a 25m coil.

Wake up! Smell the coffee! (It smells of plastic!)

Many new houses have the first fix in plastic. This is so unskilled
labour
can fit it and the Pikies do not steal it overnight. The second fix is
done
by a professional, who fits copper where pipe is seen, as many people
will
not entertain plastic pipes in a house and are liable to walk and not
buy.

Plastic is gaining market share, but very slowly. The designs have not
settled, with most big players constantly redesigning their fittings.
Hepworth and Speedfit have recently done this. This does not inspire
confidence in the professional trade. Some systems are better than
others
too, and Speedfit is not one of the better systems. Also, 15mm plastic
fitting are restricted to approx 12mm by the pipe inserts of plastic.
Similar with 22mm and 28mm. A point many people forget.

A good pipe fitter can fit soldered copper as fast as any plastic. What
pipe fitters, especially the self employed, do not want is a call back
where
they are not paid. Plastic has had too many failures, so they treat it
with
caution, using it only when the need arises. Copper is a safer bet for
reliability and customer satisfaction.

I know many backup plumbers on sites, the ones that attend the problems
after the owner has moved in. Few have a good word for plastic. It is
not
forgiving if the pipe and fitting are not square on and there is stress
on
the fitting. A soldered or compression copper joint will not suffer
this.
Once home, if soldered or tightened up they are sound. Good pipe fitters
will not use cheap compression joints either, only branded fittings. You
get what you pay for.

snip tripe from Bertie

wrote in message
...
In article , IMM
writes

"RichardS" noaccess@invalid wrote in message
...
"MBQ" wrote in message
om...
snip


Do a Google and the failures on Speedfit is quite common.


You obviously haven't. If you have, shows us the evidence.

Google for "speedfit failure" and you get 58 hits. Having looked at a
few, none of them actually seem to talk about failure of speedfit
fittings.

Hardly common then, is it?

snivelling drip

screwfix plumbing forum has a few stories, but these are equally
distributed
between speedfit, hep2o, and also tales of compression fittings
failing.

From The Screwfix plumbing Forum, which the first appears the problem I
had,
so quite common....


speedfit
Posted: Jan 26, 2004 7:48 PM Reply

has any body else had a problem with the o ring on the inserts pushing
the
ones in the fittings out on 22mm speedfit have admitted to have been sent
a
bad batch around last august still waiting four compensation



speedfit
Posted: Jan 27, 2004 9:51 PM Reply


basically speedfit is a pile if ****
(stop ends are ok in the short term)
if the fittings were any good they wouldn't need 'O' rings in the
inserts?
i know of a site plumber who had big probs a couple of years ago on a
large
site & all that the manufacturer would say was that 'u ain't put em
together
properly'
Then within a few weeks, new inserts are launched with 'o' rings
stick with hep2o chap!



hep2o or speedfit
Posted: Apr 21, 2004 9:28 PM Reply

I have had many problems with speedfit ie flux will dissolve grip rings
and
insert fitted with dodgey o rings .hep has so far not been a problem


Interesting that two out of three would recommend Hep2o, that would be
my choice too.

Bertie, then why are you defending the poor quality of Speedfit? My oh my!