"Stephen Dawson" wrote in message
news

I have been following this thread all along, and there is one thing
troubling me about the initial post, I cannot believe the sheds did not
have
a couple of No.1 compression and a length of copper.


I can believe it - I once needed a 15mm straight compression connector and
B&Q had run out. I ended up having to pay 4 times as much at Homebase.

That said, I can't believe that *ALL* the local DIY suppliers had sold out.

Bob

On Wed, 05 May 2004 09:50:24 +0100, Grunff wrote:

sPoNiX wrote:

Not convinced of that really. I have a fuel pump with several neoprene O
rings in it that's pushing 20 years old, with no signs of failure.
That's a much harsher environment too.

A similar-ish application is the rubber washer used in washing machine
hoses. It's a circular piece of rubber under compression and with
mains water pressure behind it. These fail regularly.

Similarly, the internals of dishwashers/washing machines contain many
rubber pipes and occasionally a few 'o' rings on things like pumps. I
have known these to fail in less than five years. Yes, some last
longer but what is important is when these things *start* to give
problems.

What makes you think that an 'o' ring in a pipe fitting is going to
miraculously last at least four times longer than one in a dishwasher
or wherever?

sPoNiX

On Wed, 5 May 2004 22:06:48 +0100,
wrote:

Why do you think the O rings will perish in that short a space of time?
we are installing plastic/rubber based waterproofing systems that have a
life expectancy of 60+years

Are these "systems" under compression? Do they have to contain water
at mains pressure and above?

sPoNiX

"IMM" wrote in message ...
"pjdesign" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...
snip
Do a Google and the failures on Speedfit is quite common.
snip
I did, found nothing much apart from someone called IMIM, what version of
Google are you using?

Look again. Also look at the screwfix plumbing forum.


That's right, everytime we catch you out just tell us to look
somewhere else.

Why don't you look on Google yourself, tells us what search criteria
you use and show us the results. Then we might start to believe you
LOL!

MBQ

snivelling drip

In article , IMM wrote:

BTW, I returned the defective Speedfit tee and they refunded the money and
made a report of the failure.

Returned it to who? The Shed or JG?

What shed was it anyway who supplied the defective product? (no, not where
were you born - where did you buy the speedfit?)

Darren

wrote in message
...
In article , IMM
writes

wrote in message
.. .
In article , IMM
writes

"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
In article , IMM

writes

I am. No cutter available so did the same thing with two other
tools.

You've claimed in various posts over the years to have installed at
least several dozen boilers in addition to other plumbing work, and
you
didn't "have a cutter available" for this job.

No. Tools elsewhere.

Where were your tools then, out on another job?

Why? Are you out to pinch them?

No I just wondered, you obviously still had your hacksaw, don't you keep
all your tools in the van?

I possess no van. The Aston would be crapped up in no time if I put tools in
it.

wrote in message
...
In article , IMM
writes

wrote in message
.. .
In article , IMM

writes
e

Bertie, a temporary DIY solution it is. Best do it properly
with
real
pipe
and fittings.

Now you're getting it, order a proper cutter tomorrow

Bertie, I have a cutter.

No, I don't mean your hacksaw I mean a

Bertie, you are very confused. Now get back the clinic before they
send
the
van out.

Bertie, you work in a factory. Now hold tight there boy. The van will
be
along from the clinic soon.

snip tripe by Bertie

wrote in message
news
In article , IMM
writes

wrote in message
.. .
In article , IMM

writes

"fred" wrote in message
.. .

"IMM" wrote in message
...
I don't do drains.
I really feel that you should, you talk enough crap.
You appear to be far better at trolling than plumbing.

I am not a plumber.

obviously! you don't have the skills (or the tools)

Bertie, do you do the night shift at the factory?

snip tripe by Bertie

wrote in message
news
In article , IMM
writes

wrote in message
.. .
In article , IMM
writes

wrote in message
.. .
In article , sPoNiX
writes
On 4 May 2004 10:13:39 -0700, (Stephen
Fasham) wrote:

appears to be capable of carrying fluids without leakage

snip

However, the rubber 'O' rings will need replacing in 15-20 years
time
when they perish. You don't get that problem with copper systems.

sPoNiX

Why do you think the O rings will perish in that short a space of
time?
we are installing plastic/rubber based waterproofing systems that
have
a
life expectancy of 60+years

Bertie, who are these we? What systems?

Polyethylene, polypropylene membranes with butyl rubber gaskets for
below ground waterproofing, we supply them all over the world on some
of
the worlds most prestigious contracts

Bertie, so you work in the factory puling the lever!

So Bertie does pull the levers.

snip tripe by Bertie

wrote in message
...
In article , IMM
writes
You obviously don't get it.

Ahh the classic John Burns when he's losing an argument (hold on isn't
'john burns' what a hooker suffers from?)

Bertie, you are loosing it. You are totally confused. The van will be
along from the clinic soon. Not to worry. Maxie knows about hookers.

snip tripe by Bertie

In article ,
wrote:
Bertie, I am not a plumber. It obvious you don't make money out of
fitting pipes. You know nothing about them.

I know how to join plastic pipes without a problem John, which is a lot
more than you, now next time get the proper tools and do the job
properly and take heed of the good advice you've had from the group,
there are people here who obviously know a lot more than you.

It certainly shows that quoting maker's specs off the internet and having
catalogues for bedtime reading is no substitute for actual hands on
experience, but then we've known this about IMM or Adam before him for
years. Anyone know what he really does do for a living? All the *actual*
things we read about him doing involve it being for friends, and things
going wrong...

--
*What do little birdies see when they get knocked unconscious? *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

"dmc" wrote in message ...
In article , IMM
wrote:

BTW, I returned the defective Speedfit tee and they refunded the money
and
made a report of the failure.

Returned it to who? The Shed or JG?

Shed.

What shed was it anyway who supplied the defective product? (no, not where
were you born - where did you buy the speedfit?)

It was Homebase.

"MBQ" wrote in message
m...
"IMM" wrote in message
...
"pjdesign" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...
snip
Do a Google and the failures on Speedfit is quite common.
snip
I did, found nothing much apart from someone called IMIM, what version
of
Google are you using?

Look again. Also look at the screwfix plumbing forum.


That's right, everytime we catch you out just tell us to look
somewhere else.

You don't look and just babble.

sPoNiX wrote:

Not convinced of that really. I have a fuel pump with several neoprene O
rings in it that's pushing 20 years old, with no signs of failure.
That's a much harsher environment too.


A similar-ish application is the rubber washer used in washing machine
hoses. It's a circular piece of rubber under compression and with
mains water pressure behind it. These fail regularly.

Do you mean similar-ish as in the way the poor washer is under constant
slicing pressure from the end of the male fitting, or in the low
quality, low density rubber used for the washers??


What makes you think that an 'o' ring in a pipe fitting is going to
miraculously last at least four times longer than one in a dishwasher
or wherever?

'Rubber' covers a very wide range of materials, and how you use an O
ring makes a huge difference to its life expectancy.

The chemistry lab I used to work in had an old RO system. This made use
of many 8mm pushfit connections which were frequently de/remounted for
servicing. It lived in a highly corrosive and hostile lab environment
where it was abused by successive generations of students. When I left,
the machine was probably 20 years old, with all original fittings.

I'm not trying to sell this to anyone - I've chosen to use pushfit
fittings all over the place based on my knowledge and experience of
materials. If I'm wrong, a replumb will be in order in about 15-20 years
time.

--
Grunff

In article , geoff

Sorry - it was you that used the stuff and couldn't hack it

Au contraire! That's what caused the problem!

--
AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk

In article ,
URL:mailto
Bertie, you are loosing it. You are totally confused. The van will be
along from the clinic soon. Not to worry. Maxie knows about hookers.

Will the van have "John Burns "Plumbing & Heating, no job too small" on
the side?

No job too loose. :-)

--
AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk

"Grunff" wrote in message
...

I'm not trying to sell this to anyone - I've chosen to use pushfit
fittings all over the place based on my knowledge and experience of
materials. If I'm wrong, a replumb will be in order in about 15-20 years
time.

Put the money aside to re-do it right now.

In article , wrote:
Polyethylene, polypropylene membranes with butyl rubber gaskets for
below ground waterproofing, we supply them all over the world on
some of the worlds most prestigious contracts

So not (to any great extent) exposed to dust, thermal movement,
pressure changes, movement etc. Far more ideal than a floating
connection on a plastic CH pipe which is repeatedly going through
cold/hot cycles.

As a comparison more or less the same bitumen felt material will last
60+ years as a dpc and less than 10 on a flat roof.

Realistically lots of modern boilers are assembled with O-ring and
spring clip connections, but if one leaks you'll know about it pretty
quick. It's the idea of psuh-fit connections buried in floors and all
but totally inaccessible that leaves me uneasy, though I appreciate
that one of virtues of plastic plumbing should be long continuous
lengths of pipe with no joints,

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

IMM wrote:

Put the money aside to re-do it right now.

It's ok - I've put in two identical, parallel systems. If one fails,
I'll just use the other. No downtime. :-)

--
Grunff

"Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)" wrote in message
. ..
In article , geoff

Sorry - it was you that used the stuff and couldn't hack it

Au contraire! That's what caused the problem!

Cor...

"Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)" wrote in message
. ..
In article ,
URL:mailto
Bertie, you are loosing it. You are totally confused. The van will be
along from the clinic soon. Not to worry. Maxie knows about hookers.

Will the van have "John Burns "Plumbing & Heating, no job too small" on
the side?

No job too loose. :-)

Cor....

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

Put the money aside to re-do it right now.

It's ok - I've put in two identical, parallel systems. If one fails,
I'll just use the other. No downtime. :-)

Fabulous. The Starship Enterprise has backup systems too. I see where you
get this from.

In article , IMM
writes

wrote in message
.. .
In article , IMM
writes

wrote in message
.. .
In article , IMM
writes

"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
In article , IMM

writes

I am. No cutter available so did the same thing with two other
tools.

You've claimed in various posts over the years to have installed at
least several dozen boilers in addition to other plumbing work, and
you
didn't "have a cutter available" for this job.

No. Tools elsewhere.

Where were your tools then, out on another job?

Why? Are you out to pinch them?

No I just wondered, you obviously still had your hacksaw, don't you keep
all your tools in the van?

I possess no van. The Aston would be crapped up in no time if I put tools in
it.

What sort of trade in did you get on the Avensis then?

--
David

In article , IMM
writes

wrote in message
.. .
In article , IMM
writes

wrote in message
.. .
In article , IMM

writes
e

Bertie, a temporary DIY solution it is. Best do it properly
with
real
pipe
and fittings.

Now you're getting it, order a proper cutter tomorrow

Bertie, I have a cutter.

No, I don't mean your hacksaw I mean a

Bertie, you are very confused. Now get back the clinic before they
send
the
van out.

Bertie, you work in a factory. Now hold tight there boy. The van will
be
along from the clinic soon.

snip tripe by Bertie

Why don't you just make that your sig? especially as you seem to be too
intellectually challenged to come up with anything else

--
David

In article , IMM
writes

wrote in message
news
In article , IMM
writes

wrote in message
.. .
In article , IMM

writes

"fred" wrote in message
.. .

"IMM" wrote in message
...
I don't do drains.
I really feel that you should, you talk enough crap.
You appear to be far better at trolling than plumbing.

I am not a plumber.

obviously! you don't have the skills (or the tools)

Bertie, do you do the night shift at the factory?

snip tripe by Bertie

Yawn

--
David

IMM wrote:

Fabulous. The Starship Enterprise has backup systems too. I see where you
get this from.

They certainly do. But it's always a plasma relay that blows. You'd
think they'd improve the design of those plasma relays.

--
Grunff

In article , sPoNiX
writes
On Wed, 05 May 2004 09:50:24 +0100, Grunff wrote:

sPoNiX wrote:

Not convinced of that really. I have a fuel pump with several neoprene O
rings in it that's pushing 20 years old, with no signs of failure.
That's a much harsher environment too.

A similar-ish application is the rubber washer used in washing machine
hoses. It's a circular piece of rubber under compression and with
mains water pressure behind it. These fail regularly.

I can't say I have had to replace any, have you just been unlucky?

Similarly, the internals of dishwashers/washing machines contain many
rubber pipes and occasionally a few 'o' rings on things like pumps. I
have known these to fail in less than five years. Yes, some last
longer but what is important is when these things *start* to give
problems.

Are you talking about shaft seals? in which case there is a wear factor
to take into consideration

What makes you think that an 'o' ring in a pipe fitting is going to
miraculously last at least four times longer than one in a dishwasher
or wherever?

Better quality? I can tell you that plastics and rubber technology is
being improved all the time, we could probably make you a material that
will never degrade (well a few hundred years anyway)

--
David

In article , IMM
writes

"Grunff" wrote in message
...

I'm not trying to sell this to anyone - I've chosen to use pushfit
fittings all over the place based on my knowledge and experience of
materials. If I'm wrong, a replumb will be in order in about 15-20 years
time.

Put the money aside to re-do it right now.

John, don't assume everybody is as useless as you

--
David

In article , IMM
writes

wrote in message
news
In article , IMM
writes

wrote in message
.. .
In article , IMM
writes

wrote in message
.. .
In article , sPoNiX
writes
On 4 May 2004 10:13:39 -0700, (Stephen
Fasham) wrote:

appears to be capable of carrying fluids without leakage

snip

However, the rubber 'O' rings will need replacing in 15-20 years
time
when they perish. You don't get that problem with copper systems.

sPoNiX

Why do you think the O rings will perish in that short a space of
time?
we are installing plastic/rubber based waterproofing systems that
have
a
life expectancy of 60+years

Bertie, who are these we? What systems?

Polyethylene, polypropylene membranes with butyl rubber gaskets for
below ground waterproofing, we supply them all over the world on some
of
the worlds most prestigious contracts

Bertie, so you work in the factory puling the lever!

So Bertie does pull the levers.

Having visited a factory yesterday that supplies us I have actually seen
the material being made, not a lever in site, you're getting confused
with signal boxes are you?

--
David

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

Fabulous. The Starship Enterprise has backup systems too. I see where
you
get this from.

They certainly do. But it's always a plasma relay that blows. You'd
think they'd improve the design of those plasma relays.

Probably made by John Guest.

In article , Tony Bryer
writes
In article , wrote:
Polyethylene, polypropylene membranes with butyl rubber gaskets for
below ground waterproofing, we supply them all over the world on
some of the worlds most prestigious contracts

So not (to any great extent) exposed to dust, thermal movement,
pressure changes, movement etc.
I would say they are subject to all those things but not cycled as
frequently

Far more ideal than a floating
connection on a plastic CH pipe which is repeatedly going through
cold/hot cycles.

Agreed, I'm not so sure about the amount of movement going on within the
fitting though
As a comparison more or less the same bitumen felt material will last
60+ years as a dpc and less than 10 on a flat roof.

Yes its the weathering effect and UV attack, for weathering you need
lots of protection UV protection can be built in but they don't really
bother for roofing felt

Realistically lots of modern boilers are assembled with O-ring and
spring clip connections, but if one leaks you'll know about it pretty
quick. It's the idea of psuh-fit connections buried in floors and all
but totally inaccessible that leaves me uneasy, though I appreciate
that one of virtues of plastic plumbing should be long continuous
lengths of pipe with no joints,

From the few failures that are about, they seem to fail immediately if
they are going to fail at all, O rings and push fit connections are in
wide spread use now on many applications. Should any pipework be
inaccessible? the recent problems I have had on my current house is
cheap imported copper pipe developing pinholes and leaking, how do you
insure against ever eventuality?

--
David

In article , sPoNiX
writes
On Wed, 5 May 2004 22:06:48 +0100,
wrote:

Why do you think the O rings will perish in that short a space of time?
we are installing plastic/rubber based waterproofing systems that have a
life expectancy of 60+years

Based on personal experience of 'o' rings in similar applications I'd
expect failures to start in 15 to 20 years.

We can expect mass failures any day now then
--
David

In article , sPoNiX
writes
On Wed, 5 May 2004 22:06:48 +0100,
wrote:

Why do you think the O rings will perish in that short a space of time?
we are installing plastic/rubber based waterproofing systems that have a
life expectancy of 60+years

Are these "systems" under compression? Do they have to contain water
at mains pressure and above?

You said that O rings will perish, what do actually think perishing is?
do you think pressure causes rubber to perish?
--
David

On Thu, 06 May 2004 11:05:28 +0100, Dave Plowman
wrote:
Anyone know what he really does do for a living? All the *actual*
things we read about him doing involve it being for friends, and things
going wrong...

In a previous splinter of the original thread, when I asked why he had
so much time to post, he said - and I quote -



my conclusion was that he's either on the dole or retired. He posts
*way* too regularly to be holding down a proper job (or if he's self
employed then he's got no customers)

Tim

On Thu, 06 May 2004 11:05:28 +0100, Dave Plowman
wrote:

Anyone know what he really does do for a living? All the *actual*
things we read about him doing involve it being for friends, and things
going wrong...

In a previous splinter of the original thread, when I asked why he had
so much time to post, he said - and I quote -

"Yep. I am on-line almost all times."

My conclusion was that he's either on the dole or retired. He posts
*way* too regularly to be holding down a proper job (or if he's self
employed then he's got no customers)

Tim

In article , IMM wrote:

It was Homebase.

And they made a report of the failure?? Blimey - your homebase is somewhat
more organised than my local then. I'm impressed!

Darren

Having let it stew at the back of my mind for a couple of days, something
just struck me. What I don't understand is why it matters whether or not the
'sheds' had any solder or compression fittings...surely the consummate
professional would always have a certain amount of stock of what are likely
to be essential items (I know I do!) Particularly the consummate
professional who owns shares in a copper mine!

Fash

"Bob" wrote in message
...

"Stephen Dawson" wrote in message
news

I have been following this thread all along, and there is one thing
troubling me about the initial post, I cannot believe the sheds did not
have
a couple of No.1 compression and a length of copper.


I can believe it - I once needed a 15mm straight compression connector and
B&Q had run out. I ended up having to pay 4 times as much at Homebase.

That said, I can't believe that *ALL* the local DIY suppliers had sold
out.

Bob

"IMM" wrote in message ...
"MBQ" wrote in message
m...
"IMM" wrote in message
...
"pjdesign" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...
snip
Do a Google and the failures on Speedfit is quite common.
snip
I did, found nothing much apart from someone called IMIM, what version
of
Google are you using?

Look again. Also look at the screwfix plumbing forum.


That's right, everytime we catch you out just tell us to look
somewhere else.

You don't look and just babble.

Are you going to tell us how to find the evidence of "common" failures
in speedfit using Google, or not?

No you're not, because you cannot, because it does not exist.

MBQ

"MBQ" wrote in message
m...
"IMM" wrote in message
...
"MBQ" wrote in message
m...
"IMM" wrote in message
...
"pjdesign" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...
snip
Do a Google and the failures on Speedfit is quite common.
snip
I did, found nothing much apart from someone called IMIM, what
version
of
Google are you using?

Look again. Also look at the screwfix plumbing forum.


That's right, everytime we catch you out just tell us to look
somewhere else.

You don't look and just babble.

Are you going to tell us how to find the evidence of "common" failures
in speedfit using Google, or not?

In fact just look on this ng. Another failure. And this is just the tip of
the iceberg. How many time bombs are waiting to happen? My oh my!

"Fash" wrote in message
...
Having let it stew at the back of my mind for a couple of days, something
just struck me. What I don't understand is why it matters whether or not
the
'sheds' had any solder or compression fittings...surely the consummate
professional would always have a certain amount of stock of what are
likely
to be essential items (I know I do!) Particularly the consummate
professional who owns shares in a copper mine!

You have to read all the posts on this thread again.