"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 23:36:08 +0000 (UTC), Frank Erskine
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 21:17:16 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

This situation is changing with local loop unbundling.

The "local loop" of course being the result of many decades of public
expenditure by the GPO/PO, which is expected to be effectively given
away to the private sector who don't want to get their hands dirty
with tasks such as planting poles in the ground, laying dirty cables
in holes in the road...

The GPO and PO are relics of the past along with other state owned
infrastructure.

BT haven't exactly rushed into providing LLU, but have rightly been
dragged into it kicking and screaming by Oftel. It's far from being
free.


And why should they give up their infrastructure (that was given to them,
but that's another issue) or pay nothing to use it, if they so want such a
network why don't they invest in their own, but then NTL (and others) tried
but gave up when they realised the cost - far better to sponge off BT via
Oftel...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
:::Jerry:::: wrote:

I don't see any point in replying to such a extreme self cantered
person.

Running down the middle of the road perhaps?

Mr Hall is? You are on the same cloud if you think that. Brainwashed
Little Middle Englanders are easy to spot. Petty snobbery permeates all
they view.


He was commenting on my typo, but context is not your strong point is it?...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 01:05:12 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 00:09:11 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Shockwave wrote:
how about taxing copper pipework?

****s like u who r too stupid to use 'speedfit' would be taxed;
those
that can read instructions and use a piper cutter would be exempt.

Oi. Copper is not only cheaper, but makes a neater job. It requires
some
skill, but this is part of the fun.


You even have the opportunity to buy a pipecutter.

I think this Shockwave pillock works for Speedfit.

Well I don't know. When I think of 'pillock' and 'Speedfit' in the
same sentence, I am inevitably reminded of your hacksaw escapade.

Reminder: faulty fitting experience. Pipe cut brilliantly square. And you
put lots of Speeddfit in. Be afraid.


Well that is an oxymoron!

Hacksaw cuts are far from brilliantly square and far from smooth - hence why
they are called 'hack-saws' I suspect.

In article ,
":::Jerry::::" writes:

"Bert Coules" wrote in message
...
Would a conduit box be smaller than a standard single-socket surface plate?
Anyway, I'll investigate - thanks for the thought.

I gave you the size a few messages ago !

Conduit circular box is 50mm (2 inch).

That's the mounting hole distance.
Box itself is nearer 2.5", and accessories upto 3", which isn't
much less than a regular square faceplate.

--
Andrew Gabriel

Mike Clarke wrote:

The beam is not weaken any less by having a U shape.

The stress concentration factor for a sharp corner is _much_ greater
than a corner with a generous circular profile. How do you account for
the stress difference not affecting the strength?

He doesn't need to, Mike. He's IMM. Stress concentrations and crack
propagation don't happen in his world - talk of them is just a
conspiracy by the landowning classes from the snot universities. In his
material world, magickalmegnetickal descalers work, hacksaws cut without
burrs, and for all I know little fairies run to hold together composite
beams whenever their altheometers detect a cr*ck starting to spr**d.

In the dull ol' world the rest of us live in, portholes are round rather
than square...

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
Which are not as good.

The service offered by the NHS is a disgrace. Have you actually
tried any of the alternatives?

Pal of mine has what's thought to be some form of rheumatoid arthritis.
Covered at work by Bupa. And the money Bupa allow for out patient
treatment of this sort ran out after two private consultant appointments.
So back to the NHS, but now several weeks later in the queue.

Some private medical insurance is a disgrace.

--
*I wished the buck stopped here, as I could use a few.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
:::Jerry:::: wrote:

I don't see any point in replying to such a extreme self cantered
person.

Running down the middle of the road perhaps?

Mr Hall is? You are on the same cloud if you think that. Brainwashed
Little Middle Englanders are easy to spot. Petty snobbery permeates all
they view.


He was commenting on my typo, but context is not your strong point is
it?...

I'm brilliant at context.

":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 01:05:12 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 00:09:11 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Shockwave wrote:
how about taxing copper pipework?

****s like u who r too stupid to use 'speedfit' would be taxed;
those
that can read instructions and use a piper cutter would be
exempt.

Oi. Copper is not only cheaper, but makes a neater job. It
requires
some
skill, but this is part of the fun.


You even have the opportunity to buy a pipecutter.

I think this Shockwave pillock works for Speedfit.

Well I don't know. When I think of 'pillock' and 'Speedfit' in the
same sentence, I am inevitably reminded of your hacksaw escapade.

Reminder: faulty fitting experience. Pipe cut brilliantly square. And
you
put lots of Speeddfit in. Be afraid.


Well that is an oxymoron!

Hacksaw cuts are far from brilliantly
square

Mine was. Smoothed off with fine files, etc. Brilliantly square and smooth.

IMM wrote:

I did pillock.

What, as an exam course?


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
Which are not as good.

The service offered by the NHS is a disgrace. Have you actually
tried any of the alternatives?

Pal of mine has what's thought to be some form of rheumatoid arthritis.
Covered at work by Bupa. And the money Bupa allow for out patient
treatment of this sort ran out after two private consultant appointments.
So back to the NHS, but now several weeks later in the queue.

Some private medical insurance is a disgrace.

They are making money at any costs, so it should be good.

"Stefek Zaba" wrote in message
...
Mike Clarke wrote:

The beam is not weaken any less by having a U shape.

The stress concentration factor for a sharp corner is _much_ greater
than a corner with a generous circular profile. How do you account for
the stress difference not affecting the strength?

He doesn't need to, Mike. He's IMM. Stress concentrations and crack
propagation don't happen in his world - talk of them is just a
conspiracy by the landowning classes from the snot universities.

Too true.

In his
material world, magickalmegnetickal descalers work,

And that they do. He continues...

hacksaws cut without
burrs,

They do? Show me one please. He goes on....

and for all I know little fairies run to hold together composite
beams whenever their altheometers detect a cr*ck starting to spr**d.

You now see faires?

In the dull ol' world the rest of us live in, portholes are round rather
than square...

This thread is also about the NHS, they have some very good professional
services. Use them.

IMM wrote:

They didn't. And the state pension is not invested. The pensions are paid

That is the case now, but it was not the original intension. NI was
originally to be paid into a fund. Needless to say, governments could
not keep their hands of it.

out of current taxes. A problem previous governments never addressed. Or

and the current one has worsened to the tune of 6bn / year...

them are only doing what any MBA student would do. Private companies lead to
greed...overt greed with the customer a mere hindrance. The fats cats show

snip lefty clap tarp

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"IMM" wrote in message
...

snip

I'm brilliant at context.


Trouble is, it's only your version...

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

I did pillock.

What, as an exam course?

No. a brick course. Or was it the starter course.

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
":::Jerry::::" writes:

"Bert Coules" wrote in message
...
Would a conduit box be smaller than a standard single-socket surface
plate?
Anyway, I'll investigate - thanks for the thought.

I gave you the size a few messages ago !

Conduit circular box is 50mm (2 inch).

That's the mounting hole distance.
Box itself is nearer 2.5", and accessories upto 3", which isn't
much less than a regular square faceplate.


In the context of the problem I still suspect that it will fit into the
limited space available. As for accessories up to 3", there wouldn't be any
other than a lid (which is the same dia as the box) as the box will only be
used as means of protecting the joint between two cables IYSWIM.

"IMM" wrote in message
...
":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
...

snip

Well that is an oxymoron!

Hacksaw cuts are far from brilliantly
square

Mine was.

No it wasn't, as you go on to admit....

Smoothed off with fine files, etc. Brilliantly square and smooth.


But obviously not properly, other wise you would not have f*cked up that
repair you carried out.....

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 12:23:38 -0000, "IMM" strung
together this:


"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

I did pillock.

What, as an exam course?

No. a brick course. Or was it the starter course.

More likely a damp course.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd

"Lurch" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 12:23:38 -0000, "IMM" strung
together this:


"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

I did pillock.

What, as an exam course?

No. a brick course. Or was it the starter course.

More likely a damp course.

Might be better if it has been a 'foundation course', IMM giving a practical
demonstration of his abilities.....

"IMM" wrote
| "Owain" wrote
| | I have nor experienced a water cut in decades.
| Neither had I until a few weeks ago (and some people were
| off for 2 days).
| Oh, how I laughed at the thought of people with combi boilers.
| You are making this up.

I am not.

Owain

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

They didn't. And the state pension is not invested. The pensions are
paid

That is

snip Little Middle England tripe

":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

snip

I'm brilliant at context.


Trouble is, it's only your version...

I can't speak for yours. Sad but true.

":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...
":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
...

snip

Well that is an oxymoron!

Hacksaw cuts are far from brilliantly
square

Mine was.

No it wasn't, as you go on to admit....

You are a dork! Cutting square if different to remove rough edges and
making it smooth. Read and learn me by.

"Lurch" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 12:23:38 -0000, "IMM" strung
together this:


"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

I did pillock.

What, as an exam course?

No. a brick course. Or was it the starter course.

More likely a damp course.

That's another course of action.

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 13:14:33 -0000, "IMM" strung
together this:


"Lurch" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 12:23:38 -0000, "IMM" strung
together this:


"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

I did pillock.

What, as an exam course?

No. a brick course. Or was it the starter course.

More likely a damp course.

That's another course of action.

Well, of course.

--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ...

****s like u who r too stupid to use 'speedfit' would be taxed; those
that can read instructions and use a piper cutter would be exempt.

Oi. Copper is not only cheaper, but makes a neater job. It requires some
skill, but this is part of the fun.


shhh! i was pointing out that 'imm' is incapable of using speedfit so
would *have* to use copper hence incurring the new stupidity tax.

those of us that are more highly skilled (ie *anyone* other than
'imm') would have the option of successfully using speedfit and would
hence escape taxation.

shokk

"IMM" wrote in message
...

":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

snip

I'm brilliant at context.


Trouble is, it's only your version...

I can't speak for yours. Sad but true.


You can't speak for anyone, that is your trouble.
You are quite right though, you are sad...

"Shockwave" wrote in message
m...
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

****s like u who r too stupid to use 'speedfit' would be taxed; those
that can read instructions and use a piper cutter would be exempt.

Oi. Copper is not only cheaper, but makes a neater job. It requires some
skill, but this is part of the fun.


shhh! i was pointing out that 'imm'
is incapable of using speedfit

How long have you worked fro Speedfit?

"IMM" wrote in message
...

a dork!

You are?

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 08:23:19 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 01:01:09 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message


Not at all, although I do object to paying tax to support an
arrangement that belongs in the 1940s.

Have people grown two heads since then?

Most people haven't but perhaps Zaphod Beeblebrox is an aquaintance of
yours.

The notion of universal state run healthcare, free at the point of
delivery is a nonsense in the 21st century.

Have people changed sonce the 20th century, grown another leg as well?

The mix of health issues has changed considerably over the last 60
years.

With
the technology we have today to reduce manpower and make matters more
efficient, it makes even more sense to care for the sick.

I didn't say that it doesn't. I simply don't believe that the
government needs to be involved in its delivery. Come to think of it,
the government doesn't need to be involved in very much at all.




--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 08:25:47 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 01:03:03 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


State monopolies didn't use their customers as an interest free
lending
bank.

There's no need when the state is bankrolling their wastage with
taxpayer's money.

More obsessions. He thinks if it state owned then the people who work
in
these organisation are lazy and incompetent.

The bureaucratic elements undoubtedly are.

Bureaucracy comes with size. I have come across large private companies
that are more bureaucratic than government agencies.

Of course, which is why I was not proposing replacing state run
megaliths with privately run megaliths.


--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

In article ,
IMM wrote:
Well I don't know. When I think of 'pillock' and 'Speedfit' in the
same sentence, I am inevitably reminded of your hacksaw escapade.

Reminder: faulty fitting experience. Pipe cut brilliantly square. And
you put lots of Speeddfit in. Be afraid.

I'd be more afraid of the fact that you've learnt nothing. It's not the
squareness of the cut that made your joint fail, but the poor finish to
the end of the pipe that sawing causes. It makes the rubber seal 'pick up'.

--
*Ham and Eggs: Just a day's work for a chicken, but a lifetime commitment

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
IMM wrote:
As used by one soft in the head? If he could actually find a source of
soft copper tube. At an economic price. Not that that matters to an
IMM.

Our resident dork again. Soft copper can be threaded. He can't
understand that.

So enlighten us about the cost of fully soft 15 and 22mm copper tube?

--
*I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 10:14:50 -0000, ":::Jerry::::"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 01:03:03 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


State monopolies didn't use their customers as an interest free
lending
bank.

There's no need when the state is bankrolling their wastage with
taxpayer's money.

More obsessions. He thinks if it state owned then the people who work
in
these organisation are lazy and incompetent.

The bureaucratic elements undoubtedly are.

So why are you suggesting increasing the bureaucratic elements, with all
this talk about people handing out vouchers then, what you should be pushing
for is less bureaucratic elements running the NHS and let the front line
people manage rather than hoards of back room accountants that were brought
in to try and run the hospital [1] as if it was a private sector business.

The necessary levels of administration for a voucher or equivalent
funding scheme are already present in the Dept. of Health.

The public sector does not attract the best business entrepreneurs
which is actually what is required to cut out the rubbish and waste.


[1] note the word 'Hospital', as in a hospital not the whole NHS. Even when
there are trusts there in normally two or three hospitals in the group. You
really do need to get a clue were the NHS wastes money before spouting utter
extreme right wing clap-trap.

I'm not spouting extreme anything but simply pointing out that it is
time for people to realise that the existing NHS system is a total
disaster. One doesn't need to look at the detail to realise how
broken it is.

- Into the front end goes virtually unlimited sums of taxpayer's money
agreed by politicians who are too stupid or too afraid to grasp the
nettle and shut the white elephant down.

- At the back end, there are dedicated and grossly underpaid staff
working in filthy conditions in many cases. Patients are (badly)
treated as a commodity.

- This only leaves a set of overhead functions in the middle staffed
by or led by the clueless or in some cases the corrupt.

It certainly isn't the answer to put medical staff completely in
charge because it isn't their skill set any more than a business
entrepreneur can perform appendictomies.

The reality is that we are paying for an organisation that is outmoded
and outdated and has lost its way. Successive governments have tried
unsuccessfully to fix it. THe only effective solution is
euthanasia.



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 08:25:47 -0000, "IMM" wrote:

snip

Bureaucracy comes with size. I have come across large private companies
that are more bureaucratic than government agencies.

Of course, which is why I was not proposing replacing state run
megaliths with privately run megaliths.


But you are, when an organisation is larger than the British army how are
not going to have privately run megaliths, and don't just say split it up as
that would just increase the problems (both from an organisational PoV but
also for the patients).

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 10:23:21 -0000, ":::Jerry::::"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 23:36:08 +0000 (UTC), Frank Erskine
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 21:17:16 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

This situation is changing with local loop unbundling.

The "local loop" of course being the result of many decades of public
expenditure by the GPO/PO, which is expected to be effectively given
away to the private sector who don't want to get their hands dirty
with tasks such as planting poles in the ground, laying dirty cables
in holes in the road...

The GPO and PO are relics of the past along with other state owned
infrastructure.

BT haven't exactly rushed into providing LLU, but have rightly been
dragged into it kicking and screaming by Oftel. It's far from being
free.


And why should they give up their infrastructure (that was given to them,
but that's another issue)

That's precisely *the* issue. The investment in copper was largely
made when it was a public corporation, so it is reasonable that other
companies should have access to it for reasonable price levels.

The other companies still have to provide the switching and routing
infrastructure and that is far from cheap. They also have to satisfy
the customer.



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 09:19:56 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
IMM wrote:
Now look at the water industry. What a shambles. The service levels
are appalling. Every house should have 50 litres/min of water at 4 bar.
Do we get it like other countries? Not on your Nelly. We spend a
fortune on antiquated tank and cylinder systems to cope with the
appalling water supply. To have a shower in which you don't have to run
around in to get wet we have to install pumps.

I know of new houses which still only have 1/2" plastic mains pipes
fitted. Unbelievable.

So this means your continual recommendation to fit combis everywhere is
based, as I've always thought, on an argument made of straw?

Either the water supplies in this country are up to it or they're not.
You've said they're not, but still recommend combis which can't work as
well as a storage system. What a ******.

What a dork! My water supply can take about 5 combi's.

Really. So why haven't you got at least two?

Many others are
the same too. Sadly many supplies are not and feel sorry for these people
as they are being short changed.






--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 09:36:57 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 01:06:02 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
...

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

[ re the British tax system ]


The whole setup needs to be dramatically scaled down.


Tax cuts are very popular..... until the service you need is done away
with...

Land Value Tax is the way. No other tax except that.

Not even that.

Uh??

OK. Especially not that. Clear enough now?



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 08:28:05 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 01:05:12 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 00:09:11 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Shockwave wrote:
how about taxing copper pipework?

****s like u who r too stupid to use 'speedfit' would be taxed;
those
that can read instructions and use a piper cutter would be exempt.

Oi. Copper is not only cheaper, but makes a neater job. It requires
some
skill, but this is part of the fun.


You even have the opportunity to buy a pipecutter.

I think this Shockwave pillock works for Speedfit.

Well I don't know. When I think of 'pillock' and 'Speedfit' in the
same sentence, I am inevitably reminded of your hacksaw escapade.

Reminder: faulty fitting experience. Pipe cut brilliantly square. And you
put lots of Speeddfit in. Be afraid.

I've used quite a bit of lots of makes over the years, have followed
the instructions, used the right tools and never had any problems.



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 09:19:56 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
IMM wrote:
Now look at the water industry. What a shambles. The service levels
are appalling. Every house should have 50 litres/min of water at 4
bar.
Do we get it like other countries? Not on your Nelly. We spend a
fortune on antiquated tank and cylinder systems to cope with the
appalling water supply. To have a shower in which you don't have to
run
around in to get wet we have to install pumps.

I know of new houses which still only have 1/2" plastic mains pipes
fitted. Unbelievable.

So this means your continual recommendation to fit combis everywhere is
based, as I've always thought, on an argument made of straw?

Either the water supplies in this country are up to it or they're not.
You've said they're not, but still recommend combis which can't work as
well as a storage system. What a ******.

What a dork! My water supply can take about 5 combi's.

Really. So why haven't you got at least two?

That was a serious consideration until a £1000 thermal store came along for
buttons. Then I used that.

You should have two combi's, you know it makes sense.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 09:36:57 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 01:06:02 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
...

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

[ re the British tax system ]


The whole setup needs to be dramatically scaled down.


Tax cuts are very popular..... until the service you need is done
away
with...

Land Value Tax is the way. No other tax except that.

Not even that.

Uh??

OK. Especially not that. Clear enough now?

You need to know about land value tax and how it works. Oh that goes against
your inclination to keep rich parasites rich. What an odd one you are. How
much did you give to the rich this week?