IMM wrote:

I have never called Andy a ****, but I can understand this mans frustration.
What do normal people normally call you?

Errr, John.

What do you call me?

--
Cheers,

John.

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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 04:03:40 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

Replace snake with RTA....

Replace RTA with waiting for a heart operation in the NHS...

(500 a year die from that alone - Hansard 7 May 2003 : Column 726)...

Hi,

It was given by Alan Milburn as an arbritary estimate, but a look at
what is being debated is more revealing. Essentially the Govt believes
that lower waiting times means less deaths. However in reality this
may mean more urgent cases are being deferred in order that less
urgent cases are being treated within the maximum waiting time:

--------------

Mr. Milburn: I can give the hon. Gentleman a concrete example. It is
estimated that 500 patients die every year waiting for a heart
operation in the NHS. The shorter the waiting time, the fewer people
die. That has come about precisely because of setting a target,
focusing effort and getting the good will and commitment of NHS staff.
That is why, after 40 years of rising waiting times in the NHS,
waiting times are starting to fall, with improved outcomes for
patients.


Dr. Harris: I am grateful to the Secretary of State for choosing
cardiology. He should know that the people who die while waiting for
their procedure are the urgent cases—those with critical ischaemia,
left main-stem disease or severe valvular disease. Clear evidence is
emerging that people with those urgent conditions are being forced to
wait longer. Instead of waiting for only days, they have to wait for
weeks because so many slots have been given over to less urgent cases,
the long waiters who also need to be treated but who are political
rather than clinical priorities. I can cite for the right hon.
Gentleman cardiologists up and down the country who know that their
patients are now more at risk due to his maximal waiting-time target.
Surely, it is straightforward for the right hon. Gentleman to see that
the sickest are not being treated the quickest, because his maximum
waiting time targets apply only to the least urgent cases. He must
accept that there is a distortion of clinical priorities, and the hon.
Member for Wolverhampton, South-West (Rob Marris) should realise that
one can have quality inspection and quality standards without
distorting either resource allocation or clinical priorities. That is
what we want, not the political targets imposed on hospitals.

-----------

URL:
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200203/cmhansrd/vo030507/debtext/30507-14.htm#30507-14_spnew0

In any case quoting a statistic without any context is sometimes
misleading.

cheers,
Pete.

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Mike Tomlinson wrote:
Just installed a Freeview box for
her and got a chance to play with it. Not nearly as good as off air.

Strange. I've just given in and bought a Daewoo Freeview STB for 39
quid so I have something to watch in the winter evenings. The picture
quality is astounding and the sound is so much better (even I can tell
the difference, and I wear a hearing aid.

You snipped the bit that mattered. I was comparing FreeView to cable -
hence the bit about 'off air'.

Talking about off air ...

Does anyone know why I get BBC news 24 24 hours a day on my NTL box, but
not during the day on my freeview box ?


--
geoff

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Mike Tomlinson wrote:
Just installed a Freeview box for
her and got a chance to play with it. Not nearly as good as off air.

Strange. I've just given in and bought a Daewoo Freeview STB for 39
quid so I have something to watch in the winter evenings. The picture
quality is astounding and the sound is so much better (even I can tell
the difference, and I wear a hearing aid.

You snipped the bit that mattered. I was comparing FreeView to cable -
hence the bit about 'off air'.

Talking about off air ...

Does anyone know why I get BBC news 24 24 hours a day on my NTL box, but
not during the day on my freeview box ?

Maxie, which is the best reception? Calble or Freeview?

"IMM" wrote in message
...
":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
...

snip

and is probably a very
nice person in person IYSWIM.

Once a ****, always a ****.


Well, you would personally know all about that, no doubt...

"IMM" wrote in message
...
":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
...

snip

Stop showing off how little you know ! Do some basic research on flight
paths....

Did some work once on ILS: localisers, glide slope, etc. You see I am
brill
at everything.


You didn't learn much then, perhaps that's why you only did it once !...

":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...
":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
...

snip

and is probably a very
nice person in person IYSWIM.

Once a ****, always a ****.


Well, you would personally know all about that, no doubt...

Well you gave the assessment not me.

":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...
":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
...

snip

Stop showing off how little you know ! Do some basic research on
flight
paths....

Did some work once on ILS: localisers, glide slope, etc. You see I am
brill
at everything.


You didn't learn much then, perhaps that's why you only did it once !...

Many number of times my good man.

"IMM" wrote in message
...

":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...
":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
...

snip

Stop showing off how little you know ! Do some basic research on
flight
paths....

Did some work once on ILS: localisers, glide slope, etc. You see I am
brill
at everything.


You didn't learn much then, perhaps that's why you only did it once !...

Many number of times my good man.


That's not what you said above.... Ho hum, which version should we believe
?...

IMM wrote:

They use aeroplanes that fly. They don't use rails.


Hmm. Observant!

Regards
Capitol

"Capitol" wrote in message
...


IMM wrote:

They use aeroplanes that fly. They don't use rails.


Hmm. Observant!

very.

Pete C wrote:

It was given by Alan Milburn as an arbritary estimate, but a look at
what is being debated is more revealing. Essentially the Govt believes
that lower waiting times means less deaths. However in reality this
may mean more urgent cases are being deferred in order that less
urgent cases are being treated within the maximum waiting time:

The usual triumph of spin over substance (or in fact lives in this case).

URL:
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200203/cmhansrd/vo030507/debtext/30507-14.htm#30507-14_spnew0

In any case quoting a statistic without any context is sometimes
misleading.

Agreed, however for the purposes of the discussion in hand, it did not
seem that relevant, or more likely, would most likely only serve to
divert the discussion into ever new areas for claim and counter claim.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Pete C wrote:

It was given by Alan Milburn as an arbritary estimate, but a look at
what is being debated is more revealing. Essentially the Govt believes
that lower waiting times means less deaths. However in reality this
may mean more urgent cases are being deferred in order that less
urgent cases are being treated within the maximum waiting time:

The usual triumph of spin over substance (or in fact lives in this case).


And practised by all parties of what ever colour, politics having become
more about PR than policies in the last 25 years or so, why else do they
employ advertising and PR guru's....

John Hummphy's, like him or not, does have a point about the babble that is
now spoken by politicians.

In message , IMM writes

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Mike Tomlinson wrote:
Just installed a Freeview box for
her and got a chance to play with it. Not nearly as good as off air.

Strange. I've just given in and bought a Daewoo Freeview STB for 39
quid so I have something to watch in the winter evenings. The picture
quality is astounding and the sound is so much better (even I can tell
the difference, and I wear a hearing aid.

You snipped the bit that mattered. I was comparing FreeView to cable -
hence the bit about 'off air'.

Talking about off air ...

Does anyone know why I get BBC news 24 24 hours a day on my NTL box, but
not during the day on my freeview box ?

Maxie, which is the best reception? Calble or Freeview?

Both equally good round here, difficult to say

--
geoff

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , IMM writes

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Mike Tomlinson wrote:
Just installed a Freeview box for
her and got a chance to play with it. Not nearly as good as off
air.

Strange. I've just given in and bought a Daewoo Freeview STB for 39
quid so I have something to watch in the winter evenings. The
picture
quality is astounding and the sound is so much better (even I can
tell
the difference, and I wear a hearing aid.

You snipped the bit that mattered. I was comparing FreeView to cable -
hence the bit about 'off air'.

Talking about off air ...

Does anyone know why I get BBC news 24 24 hours a day on my NTL box,
but
not during the day on my freeview box ?

Maxie, which is the best reception? Calble or Freeview?

Both equally good round here, difficult to say

So a good aerial and good signal Free is the same.

In message , IMM writes

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

Neither have I. When I say to them people in the UK have not died on the
steps on hospitals with snake bites because they couldn't prove they
could
pay, they see the point.

Good one IMM....

I know. Thank you.

Given the size of the population of poisonous snakes indigenous in this
country, that should ram home the point with the characteristic thrust
of most of your arguments.

It did sink home.

Or just ........ sank

--
geoff