On 12/04/2021 14:58, polygonum_on_google wrote:
I have read doctor's letters (specifically one copied to my partner about her then recent appointment) in which the consultant completely confused hyper- and hypo-.

I wish I had taken the Cambridge Council to court for the (pre printed)
parking ticket for 'parking in a PREscribed place'



--
The biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly
diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential
survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations
into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with
what it actually is.

On 12/04/2021 19:26, charles wrote:
In article ,
JNugent wrote:
On 12/04/2021 10:54 am, charles wrote:
In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
charles wrote:

Steve Walker wrote:

I have long thought it wrong to mark down for spelling and grammar,
except in languages.

In chemisty? Is ita sulphate or a sulphide?

Sulfide or sulfate according to IUPAC

could well be, I never learned chemisty

Learning chemistry also crucially includes learning how to spell the
terms used, many of which are only subtly different from each other.

That was my real point.

Air controller to first airliner "What height are you at?"
"I am at thirty thousand feet"
Air controller to second airliner "And What height are you at?"
"I am at thirty, too.."

Oops!
Which is why they speak a slightly modified _standard_ English with
numbers spelt out.

--
Labour - a bunch of rich people convincing poor people to vote for rich
people by telling poor people that "other" rich people are the reason
they are poor.

Peter Thompson

In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
On 12/04/2021 21:30, RJH wrote:
On 12 Apr 2021 at 21:26:28 BST, "Paul" wrote:

#Paul wrote:
NY wrote:
It was quite a shock to read something which was *so* illiterate from
someone who would have passed his A levels to get to university ...

When I went though secondary school, it was not uncommon for
pupils on the science/maths side of the distribution to have
dropped any subject that required them to write essays; just
as the other "humanities" group had dropped science and
maths subjects as soon as possible; naturally, this greatly
exacerbated the weaknesses of both groups.

#Paul

But you know why this is.

It's not rocket science.

A humanities professor, by design, cannot give a mark
higher than C to a STEM student. The STEM students know
this.


IME, things have moved on, and grades in the 90s are not uncommon. I'm
expecting somebody to break the 100 barrier some time soon . . .

Back in the days of 'O'-level maths, the exam (JMB) consisted of two 3
hour papers, each marked out of 113. Pupils were not expected to get
above 100 and the numbers were used directly as percentages. So 90/113
on one paper and 80/113 on the other, got you 85% - yes, a very odd
idea, but that was how it worked.

In the mocks, a classmate scored something like 108/113 and 98/113, but
was only given 99% ... because "You are not allowed to score more than
100% on a single paper"

I had one 'A' level maths paper where I did get 101%. Max marks were 256,
but it was percentaged out of 250 (for easier calculation). I got 252 and a
classmate 254.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 12/04/2021 23:05, Tim Streater wrote:
On 12 Apr 2021 at 23:03:37 BST, Fredxx wrote:

On 12/04/2021 22:19, Rod Speed wrote:


"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 12/04/2021 18:31, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 07:12:18 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave
wrote:

snip

But then I guess that the focus (on technical content) may distract
from 'checking' for spelling (if they don't pop out at you). A classic
one seen here is 'teh' instead of 'the'?

I wonder if that is down to the brain being faster than being able
to type.

Possibly?

Don;t forget that the keyboard is designed to slow typing down.

The 'qwerty' keyboard you mean ... I thought it was more to balance
the speed out (and so make it faster)?

A disputed reason is so the hammers were less likely to interfere and
clash for high speed typing.

It isnt disputed by anyone with even half a clue.

There are a number of links to the history of the Query keyboard than
debunk the idea.

Just one of these with a greater 'clue':

https://www.newscientist.com/article...erty-keyboard/

Quote:
One often-repeated explanation is that it was designed to €œslow the
typist down€� in order to stop the mechanism from jamming, a bug that
dogged earlier designs. This was supposedly achieved by keeping common
letter pairs apart.

But that cannot be true. E and R, the second most common letter pair in
English, are next to one another. T and H, the most common of all, are
near neighbours. A statistical analysis in 1949 found that a QWERTY
keyboard actually has more close pairs than a keyboard arranged at random.

Another urban myth is that it enabled salesmen to impress customers by
rapidly typing €œTYPE WRITER QUOTE€� from the top row. Its a nice idea €“
and it does seem unlikely that these letters would appear together by
chance €“ but there is no historical evidence for it.

Perhaps a more convincing though prosaic reason is that the keyboard is
simply a semi-random rearrangement of the original piano-style keyboard.

Well probably never know. A century after Sholes finalised the
keyboard, historian Jan Noyes of Loughborough University published a
lengthy analysis concluding: €œThere appears €¦ to be no obvious reason
for the placement of letters in the QWERTY layout.

And, equally, there is no reason to change it.

I think that the typewriter layout *was* dictated by the mechanical
design, but that's lost in the mists of time.

What emerged was something that ArtStudents„¢ who argue endlessly about
which standards are best, fail to understand completely in their
complete lack of exposure to RealLife„¢. Namely that it doesn't matter
*what* the standard *is*, so long as everybody *knows* what it is, and
*uses* it.


--
WOKE is an acronym... Without Originality, Knowledge or Education.

On 12/04/2021 23:03, Fredxx wrote:
On 12/04/2021 22:19, Rod Speed wrote:
"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 12/04/2021 18:31, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 07:12:18 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave
wrote:

Don;t forget that the keyboard is designed to slow typing down.

The 'qwerty' keyboard you mean ... I thought it was more to balance
the speed out (and so make it faster)?

A disputed reason is so the hammers were less likely to interfere and
clash for high speed typing.

It isnt disputed by anyone with even half a clue.

There are a number of links to the history of the Query keyboard than
debunk the idea.

Just one of these with a greater 'clue':

https://www.newscientist.com/article...erty-keyboard/


Quote:
One often-repeated explanation is that it was designed to €œslow the
typist down€� in order to stop the mechanism from jamming, a bug that
dogged earlier designs. This was supposedly achieved by keeping common
letter pairs apart.

But that cannot be true. E and R, the second most common letter pair in
English, are next to one another. T and H, the most common of all, are
near neighbours. A statistical analysis in 1949 found that a QWERTY
keyboard actually has more close pairs than a keyboard arranged at random.

Another urban myth is that it enabled salesmen to impress customers by
rapidly typing €œTYPE WRITER QUOTE€� from the top row. Its a nice idea €“
and it does seem unlikely that these letters would appear together by
chance €“ but there is no historical evidence for it.

Perhaps a more convincing though prosaic reason is that the keyboard is
simply a semi-random rearrangement of the original piano-style keyboard.

Well probably never know. A century after Sholes finalised the
keyboard, historian Jan Noyes of Loughborough University published a
lengthy analysis concluding: €œThere appears €¦ to be no obvious reason
for the placement of letters in the QWERTY layout.

Doesn't explain why it isn't ABC...

--
Max Demian

Andrew wrote:
Plus automatic membership of a nice juicy final salary pension
scheme (that is probably massively in deficit) ??

If you are referring to USS, it hasn't been final salary for
a while - instead it's now "career average", which is fairer
and weeds out the anomalies (such as just before retirement
salary jumps, and perhaps even late career drops in salary
point).

There do seem to be some funding issues but they are not
being ignored; and debate mostly seems to involve USS,
universities, and the unions arguing how much needs to be
paid in, and by whom.

#Paul

On 13/04/2021 10:01, T i m wrote:
On 13 Apr 2021 07:08:43 GMT, Tim Streater
wrote:

snip troll ****e

It is said you could get more than a 10% increase in typing rate for a
fast touch typist if you had a more efficient layout.

Gosh, 10%, eh? That'll *really* get 'em going.

Don't forget, for *that* type of troll that hypothetical 10% would be
*way* more than enough to get into a one sided debate about.

Since I've only posted on the relevant subject in the sub-thread I'm
certainly not the troll, nor do I have a massive chip on my shoulder.

http://www.mit.edu/~jcb/Dvorak/
Suggests that a good typist going from the Querty the Dvorak keyboard
can attain a 74% advantage in speed and accuracy by 68%.

If you feel differently please explain.

Perhaps you feel the definition of a troll is someone who posts facts or
attributed claims you'd rather they didn't? Most people have a different
definition.

On Monday, 12 April 2021 at 16:14:04 UTC+1, Andrew wrote:
On 12/04/2021 16:09, whisky-dave wrote:


we don't get many like that, if anything we get those that are over qualified
that's what happened last time we put a post up.

Here's a list which would you be qualified to do ?

https://webapps2.is.qmul.ac.uk/jobs/jobs.action

Plus automatic membership of a nice juicy final salary pension
scheme (that is probably massively in deficit) ??

Not true they stopped that years ago.
I think that anyone that joined later than 1980 has been put on the standard average salery scheme.
I have. They do make it up a little with an added bonus, not worlked out mine yet but it only appears to amount to a few quid a week.
But there are two differnt schemes too, one for academic staff and one for technical.

Last time pre-covid it wasn;t in defict

https://mikeotsuka.medium.com/saul-c...g-1f51bf0cb351

On Monday, 12 April 2021 at 18:15:31 UTC+1, JNugent wrote:
On 12/04/2021 10:54 am, charles wrote:
In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
charles wrote:

Steve Walker wrote:

I have long thought it wrong to mark down for spelling and grammar,
except in languages.

In chemisty? Is ita sulphate or a sulphide?

Sulfide or sulfate according to IUPAC

could well be, I never learned chemisty
Learning chemistry also crucially includes learning how to spell the
terms used, many of which are only subtly different from each other.

Interestingly he said he'd never "learned" chemisty, I was taught it was "learnt" chemisty.

On Monday, 12 April 2021 at 18:31:28 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 07:12:18 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave
wrote:

snip

But then I guess that the focus (on technical content) may distract
from 'checking' for spelling (if they don't pop out at you). A classic
one seen here is 'teh' instead of 'the'?

I wonder if that is down to the brain being faster than being able to type.
Possibly?
Don;t forget that the keyboard is designed to slow typing down.
The 'qwerty' keyboard you mean ... I thought it was more to balance
the speed out (and so make it faster)?

I thought it was because if it was a ABCDE keyboard when you hit common
English words the hammers hit each other and stuck together, so they needed a way
of making sure they didn't hit.

I also have probs with the word yuo instead of you.


And while I'm here could you try the link below.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0jcu9o06ph...41.23.png?dl=0

it was on facebook an image whose colour showns you whether you or right brained or left brained.
For me it was left brained, but also my computer was using it;s left processors as I ttried colour picking
and that too was a green colour, maybe my right processors are missing :-0

anyway let me know what you see.
A trainer? ;-) Do you know anyone who sees any pink?

AT least you didn't say sneaker, not found anyone thats seen pink.
I was wondering whether it was some sort of new advertising method to get the image out on FB.

I remember that famous dress that some people saw in differnt colours to others.


The other thing I noticed was the annoying "UR" usage guess that will annoy you roo.

Yeah, I've never really received that sort of thing. It's not wrong,
it's just an abbreviation, like m8 (I don't think I've ever sent that
either) and not really the same as 'we was' or 'anythink'.

Back on the words / spelling thing, I am reminded constantly (TV and
ITRW) how many people *say* 'anythinK' but I wonder what percentage of
them would write is like that?

If I heard that I'd write it as anyfink.
Only by those who might also say 'fink' and 'fought'. I've heard
several otherwise well-spoken people on the TV, presenters and the
like repeatedly saying 'anythink'. It's nearly as annoying as hearing
them say the letter H. ;-(

My dad used to say the H in the word hour, it's sounds/looks like the H should be pronounced
but most people don't.

My mum used to say it's like the silent P in swimming.

and I'd say there's no P in swimming and she said there is when I swim in the sea.
and she'd giggle to herself.



And when young my parents corrected me if I ever said 'we was' and why
it seems so strange that so many people also seem to get that wrong?

Yes that is weird.
And it's so commonly used in conversation so comes up pretty
frequently.

I'll listen more closely as I'm not sure I've heard it.


Cheers, T i m

On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 08:47:03 +0100, nothanks wrote:

On 12/04/2021 22:06, Paul wrote:
... snipped

IBM was ahead of its time, when it instituted "entrance exams" for
prospective employees. Not trusting a transcript, that's what you do.
Make a separate filtering step. The few former IBM people I've run
into, will not tell you what goes on in that exam.

Â*Â* Paul
I'm an ex-IBMer who started at the Hursley lab as a so-called
"experienced grad" in 1982; there were several interviews but no
entrance exam.

I remember sitting a whole load of tests at IBM in 1973, before they
offered me a job. And then I turned them down. (to be fair, I also
turned down CAP, BT, and Imperial College)

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Monday, 12 April 2021 at 21:10:37 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Monday, 12 April 2021 at 14:19:03 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 13:36:15 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

snip


But then I guess that the focus (on technical content) may distract
from 'checking' for spelling (if they don't pop out at you). A classic
one seen here is 'teh' instead of 'the'?

I wonder if that is down to the brain being faster than being able to
type.
It appears to be more about not very good eyesight or not caring about
typos.

No try thinking about it.
If it's a common mistake then there's a logical reason for it.
It's got to have something to do with speed that each finger can reach a particular key.
If I type slowley I don't make the same mistake.


Don;t forget that the keyboard is designed to slow typing down.
And while I'm here could you try the link below.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0jcu9o06ph...41.23.png?dl=0

it was on facebook an image whose colour showns you whether you or right
brained or left brained.
Weird.
For me it was left brained,
Me too, but I forget what T I m claims about alleged left brainers.

That they are logical, whereas artists and emotional people are right brained.
A friend that teachs art at univ (he has a pHd in fine arts, not that I know what that means) but he didn't see pink either.



Tho it is clear that he claims he is right brained.

Yes that's what I remembered so the obvious one to teast it on.
But I think it was fake and just a way to get the image shared on facebook.

On Monday, 12 April 2021 at 23:03:41 UTC+1, Fredxx wrote:
On 12/04/2021 22:19, Rod Speed wrote:


"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 12/04/2021 18:31, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 07:12:18 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave
wrote:

snip

But then I guess that the focus (on technical content) may distract
from 'checking' for spelling (if they don't pop out at you). A classic
one seen here is 'teh' instead of 'the'?

I wonder if that is down to the brain being faster than being able
to type.

Possibly?

Don;t forget that the keyboard is designed to slow typing down.

The 'qwerty' keyboard you mean ... I thought it was more to balance
the speed out (and so make it faster)?

A disputed reason is so the hammers were less likely to interfere and
clash for high speed typing.

It isnt disputed by anyone with even half a clue.
There are a number of links to the history of the Query keyboard than
debunk the idea.

Just one of these with a greater 'clue':

https://www.newscientist.com/article...erty-keyboard/

Quote:
One often-repeated explanation is that it was designed to €œslow the
typist down€� in order to stop the mechanism from jamming, a bug that
dogged earlier designs. This was supposedly achieved by keeping common
letter pairs apart.

But that cannot be true. E and R, the second most common letter pair in
English, are next to one another. T and H, the most common of all, are
near neighbours. A statistical analysis in 1949 found that a QWERTY
keyboard actually has more close pairs than a keyboard arranged at random..

But this also depends how you learnt to type, I've never been taught to touch type.
I taught myslef by starting with one finger at a time and progressing to a resonable speed.
I don't use all 4+1 fingers I still mainly use just 2 fingers on each hand.
I never use my thumbs whereas my mum who worked in a typing pool used to
and used more fingers to type.

I've often wondered why there was a 'corect' way to type in the first place..





Another urban myth is that it enabled salesmen to impress customers by
rapidly typing €œTYPE WRITER QUOTE€� from the top row. Its a nice idea €“
and it does seem unlikely that these letters would appear together by
chance €“ but there is no historical evidence for it.

Never heard that one.


Perhaps a more convincing though prosaic reason is that the keyboard is
simply a semi-random rearrangement of the original piano-style keyboard.

Well probably never know. A century after Sholes finalised the
keyboard, historian Jan Noyes of Loughborough University published a
lengthy analysis concluding: €œThere appears €¦ to be no obvious reason
for the placement of letters in the QWERTY layout.

Well historians aren't always the best people to ask.

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Monday, 12 April 2021 at 21:10:37 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Monday, 12 April 2021 at 14:19:03 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 13:36:15 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

snip


But then I guess that the focus (on technical content) may distract
from 'checking' for spelling (if they don't pop out at you). A classic
one seen here is 'teh' instead of 'the'?

I wonder if that is down to the brain being faster than being able to
type.
It appears to be more about not very good eyesight or not caring about
typos.

No try thinking about it.

Not something you are capable of doing.

If it's a common mistake then there's a logical reason for it.

Yep, its a very common word and the letters are adjacent
and are typed with different hands, stupid.

It's got to have something to do with speed
that each finger can reach a particular key.

Nope.

If I type slowley I don't make the same mistake.

Because you dont transpose those two keys then, stupid.

Don;t forget that the keyboard is designed to slow typing down.
And while I'm here could you try the link below.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0jcu9o06ph...41.23.png?dl=0

it was on facebook an image whose colour showns
you whether you or right brained or left brained.

Weird.

Maybe not if no one sees pink.

For me it was left brained,

Me too, but I forget what T I m claims about alleged left brainers.

That they are logical, whereas artists and
emotional people are right brained.

But he claims to be right brained and clearly isnt an
artist and is only stupidly emotional about animals.

A friend that teachs art at univ (he has a pHd
in fine arts, not that I know what that means)
but he didn't see pink either.

But the left/right brain line has always been mindless bull****.

But we do know that that dress is seen differently
by two different groups of people.

Tho it is clear that he claims he is right brained.

Yes that's what I remembered so the obvious one to teast it on.
But I think it was fake and just a way to get the image shared on
facebook.

Unlikely given that its a pretty anonymous shoe.

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Monday, 12 April 2021 at 23:03:41 UTC+1, Fredxx wrote:
On 12/04/2021 22:19, Rod Speed wrote:


"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 12/04/2021 18:31, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 07:12:18 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave
wrote:

snip

But then I guess that the focus (on technical content) may distract
from 'checking' for spelling (if they don't pop out at you). A
classic
one seen here is 'teh' instead of 'the'?

I wonder if that is down to the brain being faster than being able
to type.

Possibly?

Don;t forget that the keyboard is designed to slow typing down.

The 'qwerty' keyboard you mean ... I thought it was more to balance
the speed out (and so make it faster)?

A disputed reason is so the hammers were less likely to interfere and
clash for high speed typing.

It isnt disputed by anyone with even half a clue.
There are a number of links to the history of the Query keyboard than
debunk the idea.

Just one of these with a greater 'clue':

https://www.newscientist.com/article...erty-keyboard/

Quote:
One often-repeated explanation is that it was designed to €œslow the
typist down€� in order to stop the mechanism from jamming, a bug that
dogged earlier designs. This was supposedly achieved by keeping common
letter pairs apart.

But that cannot be true. E and R, the second most common letter pair in
English, are next to one another. T and H, the most common of all, are
near neighbours. A statistical analysis in 1949 found that a QWERTY
keyboard actually has more close pairs than a keyboard arranged at
random.

But this also depends how you learnt to type, I've never been taught to
touch type.
I taught myslef by starting with one finger at a time and progressing to a
resonable speed.
I don't use all 4+1 fingers I still mainly use just 2 fingers on each
hand.
I never use my thumbs whereas my mum who worked in a typing pool used to
and used more fingers to type.

I've often wondered why there was a 'corect' way to type in the first
place.

It gives the best result speed and accuracy wise with most people.

Another urban myth is that it enabled salesmen to impress customers by
rapidly typing €œTYPE WRITER QUOTE€� from the top row. Its a nice idea €“
and it does seem unlikely that these letters would appear together by
chance €“ but there is no historical evidence for it.

Never heard that one.


Perhaps a more convincing though prosaic reason is that the keyboard is
simply a semi-random rearrangement of the original piano-style keyboard.

Well probably never know. A century after Sholes finalised the
keyboard, historian Jan Noyes of Loughborough University published a
lengthy analysis concluding: €œThere appears €¦ to be no obvious reason
for the placement of letters in the QWERTY layout.

Well historians aren't always the best people to ask.

On 13/04/2021 10:19, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


(I remember my Norfolk grandfather refused to accept the French invaders
pronunciation. The car lived in the 'garridge', not a poncey 'garage')...

That's an interesting one. My recollection from my upbringing in South
London was of 50-50 useage, perhaps a slight working class / middle
class split? I don't think I am consistent in Gloucestershire now but it
seems to me that both are equally acceptable. Here is another viewpoint
off the web; I think the phonetics essentially represents your two versions.


"When I grew up in North London, We said /ˈɡærɑ�ʒ/, and looked down on
the lower-class people around us who said /ˈɡærɪdʒ/. But when I moved to
Yorkshire, and gradually started talking Yorkshire (sometimes - depends
who I'm talking to), I found that /ˈɡærɑ�ʒ/ seemed alien to it, and
adopted /ˈɡærɪdʒ/. Now when I'm in the South and not talking Yorkshire,
I don't know which to use: I think I say /ˈɡærɪdʒ/ more often."

On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 05:45:09 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

On Monday, 12 April 2021 at 16:14:04 UTC+1, Andrew wrote:
On 12/04/2021 16:09, whisky-dave wrote:


we don't get many like that, if anything we get those that are over
qualified that's what happened last time we put a post up.

Here's a list which would you be qualified to do ?

https://webapps2.is.qmul.ac.uk/jobs/jobs.action

Plus automatic membership of a nice juicy final salary pension scheme
(that is probably massively in deficit) ??

Not true they stopped that years ago.
I think that anyone that joined later than 1980 has been put on the
standard average salery scheme.

SAUL was superseded by USS for most people. They went from defined
benefit to defined contribution in April 2016, althiugh people retained
the DB they had built up.

I retired 4 months before that.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 12:08:44 +0100, #Paul wrote:

Andrew wrote:
Plus automatic membership of a nice juicy final salary pension scheme
(that is probably massively in deficit) ??

If you are referring to USS, it hasn't been final salary for a while -
instead it's now "career average", which is fairer and weeds out the
anomalies (such as just before retirement salary jumps, and perhaps even
late career drops in salary point).

He was referring to SAUL.

USS moved from final salary in April 2016.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 13/04/2021 16:14, newshound wrote:
On 13/04/2021 10:19, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


(I remember my Norfolk grandfather refused to accept the French
invaders pronunciation. The car lived in the 'garridge', not a poncey
'garage')...

That's an interesting one. My recollection from my upbringing in South
London was of 50-50 useage, perhaps a slight working class / middle
class split? I don't think I am consistent in Gloucestershire now but it
seems to me that both are equally acceptable. Here is another viewpoint
off the web; I think the phonetics essentially represents your two
versions.


"When I grew up in North London, We said /ˈɡærɑ�ʒ/, and looked down on
the lower-class people around us who said /ˈɡærɪdʒ/. But when I moved to
Yorkshire, and gradually started talking Yorkshire (sometimes - depends
who I'm talking to), I found that /ˈɡærɑ�ʒ/ seemed alien to it, and
adopted /ˈɡærɪdʒ/. Now when I'm in the South and not talking Yorkshire,
I don't know which to use: I think I say /ˈɡærɪdʒ/ more often."

This link gives three English (and two American) sound clips

https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionari...age_1?q=garage

On Wed, 14 Apr 2021 01:00:40 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile cretin's latest troll**** unread

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newshound wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote

(I remember my Norfolk grandfather refused to accept the French invaders
pronunciation. The car lived in the 'garridge', not a poncey 'garage')...

That's an interesting one. My recollection from my upbringing in South
London was of 50-50 useage, perhaps a slight working class / middle class
split?

Bet it wasnt actually slight at all.

I don't think I am consistent in Gloucestershire now but it seems to me
that both are equally acceptable. Here is another viewpoint off the web; I
think the phonetics essentially represents your two versions.

"When I grew up in North London, We said /ˈɡærɑ�ʒ/, and looked down on the
lower-class people around us who said /ˈɡærɪdʒ/. But when I moved to
Yorkshire, and gradually started talking Yorkshire (sometimes - depends
who I'm talking to), I found that /ˈɡærɑ�ʒ/ seemed alien to it, and
adopted /ˈɡærɪdʒ/.

There are no middle class there, they are all plebs.

Now when I'm in the South and not talking Yorkshire, I don't know which to
use: I think I say /ˈɡærɪdʒ/ more often."

On Wed, 14 Apr 2021 02:10:07 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


That's an interesting one. My recollection from my upbringing in South
London was of 50-50 useage, perhaps a slight working class / middle class
split?

Bet it wasn¢t actually slight at all.

Bet you are just a trolling piece of senile ****, senile Rodent!

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On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 11:34:19 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

On 12/04/2021 11:10, Bob Eager wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 10:03:40 +0100, Steve Walker wrote:

The pretty well universal requirement for GCSE English Language should
ensure that students and workers can spell use grammar reasonably
correctly (if they make the effort) and should not be tested during
other exams.

A good friend of mine is dyslexic. During his Ph.D. in CS, he wrote a
number of Algol programs. We moved from an ICL/Elliott 4130 to an ICL
2960.

It was programming that taught me to spell words like "procedure" :-)


Good English was essential for Cobol, unlike Fortran where symbols
reigned. I liked Fortran.


--
AnthonyL

Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?

On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 10:51:18 +0000, Spike
wrote:

On 12/04/2021 10:22, Robin wrote:

I wonder if Hull and other universities have consulted potential
employers here and abroad. With English now the language of business as
well as science graduates from Hull might be at a disadvantage in the
jobs market compared with those from China, India etc who can spell and
write clearly.

Some 50 years ago a young Danish aeronautical engineer came to visit our
lab to discuss a problem of mutual interest, and attend the same
conference in London that we were going to. After the conference was
over we took him along to a pub. During the course of the evening I
commented that his English was very good. He put this down to the best
technical and scientific books and journals being written in English,
and if you wanted to progress you had to learn the language so they
could be read and understood.

If British universities are going to turn out educated scientists and
engineers that are otherwise semi-illiterate, then the source of leading
information will shift elsewhere and the country will sink that much lower.


We might even compete with some of the Chinese instructions that come
with appliances.


--
AnthonyL

Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?

On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 10:29:59 +0100, charles wrote:

snip

I had one 'A' level maths paper where I did get 101%. Max marks were
256, but it was percentaged out of 250 (for easier calculation).

That's kinda ironic.

T i m wrote:
Another Dave wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Pig (Nordic) Swine(Germanic) and Pork (Romance/French) shows us the real
value of being able to say the same thing in a common vulgar way, and
unpleasant way, and a upper class Norman, toff, sort of way..

I think it's totally appropriate that we use German words for the animal
(cow, pig etc) for the animal and French for the food (beef, pork etc).

The latter being better for maintaining the cognitive dissonance when
people are buying a nicely presented and comodified chunk of flesh in
a packet from the supermarket.

It's interesting to see vegans enjoying cognitive dissonance when
considering their chosen nutrient-poor diet, and the emotional lengths
they will go to to support their belief system against the facts of the
matter.

--
Spike

On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 11:59:04 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

snip

And where would we be without our bungalows and boomerangs?

'Boo' is an Aborigine word meaning "to return".

If you throw an ordinary meringue...

(Milton Jones)

On Tuesday, 13 April 2021 at 20:29:48 UTC+1, AnthonyL wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 10:51:18 +0000, Spike
wrote:

On 12/04/2021 10:22, Robin wrote:

I wonder if Hull and other universities have consulted potential
employers here and abroad. With English now the language of business as
well as science graduates from Hull might be at a disadvantage in the
jobs market compared with those from China, India etc who can spell and
write clearly.

Some 50 years ago a young Danish aeronautical engineer came to visit our
lab to discuss a problem of mutual interest, and attend the same
conference in London that we were going to. After the conference was
over we took him along to a pub. During the course of the evening I
commented that his English was very good. He put this down to the best
technical and scientific books and journals being written in English,
and if you wanted to progress you had to learn the language so they
could be read and understood.

If British universities are going to turn out educated scientists and
engineers that are otherwise semi-illiterate, then the source of leading
information will shift elsewhere and the country will sink that much lower.


We might even compete with some of the Chinese instructions that come
with appliances.

I try to sort out my students, I refuse to give them banana leads or aligator clips. !
They get 4mm leads and croc clips !!!
When they ask what the differnce is I tell them they are in the UK not the USA
and they should speak english like wot I do. ;-)



--
AnthonyL

Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?

On Wednesday, 14 April 2021 at 13:34:01 UTC+1, Scion wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 11:59:04 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

snip

And where would we be without our bungalows and boomerangs?

'Boo' is an Aborigine word meaning "to return".

https://youtu.be/XfTdnWLMLDA?t=74


If you throw an ordinary meringue...

(Milton Jones)

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 14 April 2021 at 13:34:01 UTC+1, Scion wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 11:59:04 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

snip

And where would we be without our bungalows and boomerangs?

'Boo' is an Aborigine word meaning "to return".

There are a vast number of abo languages, so that cant fly.

https://youtu.be/XfTdnWLMLDA?t=74


If you throw an ordinary meringue...

(Milton Jones)

On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 04:21:37 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

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On 12/04/2021 06:31 pm, T i m wrote:

whisky-dave wrote:

snip

Back on the words / spelling thing, I am reminded constantly (TV and
ITRW) how many people *say* 'anythinK' but I wonder what percentage of
them would write is like that?

That's not a spelling error, just a quirky regional pronunciation. I
still know lots of people who would say that it that way but would
always spell it correctly.

....

And when young my parents corrected me if I ever said 'we was' and why
it seems so strange that so many people also seem to get that wrong?

Yes that is weird.

And it's so commonly used in conversation so comes up pretty
frequently.

Very common in the counties around London.

On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 15:34:09 +0100, JNugent
wrote:

On 12/04/2021 06:31 pm, T i m wrote:

whisky-dave wrote:

snip

Back on the words / spelling thing, I am reminded constantly (TV and
ITRW) how many people *say* 'anythinK' but I wonder what percentage of
them would write is like that?

That's not a spelling error,

I didn't suggest it was, quite the opposite in fact.

just a quirky regional pronunciation.

I'm not sure I've seen any sign of that, other than maybe from people
from poorer areas who may not have enjoyed a good education, maybe
over several generations. That's often where I hear the 'we was' and
now the 'anythink'.

I
still know lots of people who would say that it that way but would
always spell it correctly.

Any that you are close enough to to ask *why* they pronounce it that
way? I have a mate who can easily 'lock in' a miss pronunciation of
something, if he reads / hears it incorrectly the first time. Like he
currently refers to the home automation software as 'Home Assist',
rather than 'Home Assistant'.

And when young my parents corrected me if I ever said 'we was' and why
it seems so strange that so many people also seem to get that wrong?

Yes that is weird.

And it's so commonly used in conversation so comes up pretty
frequently.

Very common in the counties around London.

In the 'old days' they employed / expected people 'on TV' to be able
to speak properly, 'BBC / received pronunciation etc.

I get that might not be so relevant today with all the inclusion stuff
however I think they do at least need to use real words and
pronunciations?

Ok, I get some people will use Tautologies ... "3am in the morning
...." or use the wrong names for things because they have only heard
others using them incorrectly ('Robin Reliant') and more cultural like
'aks' instead of 'ask', but where did the hard 'H' in 'aitch or
anythinK come from?

Cheers, T i m

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 15:34:09 +0100, JNugent
wrote:

On 12/04/2021 06:31 pm, T i m wrote:

whisky-dave wrote:

snip

Back on the words / spelling thing, I am reminded constantly (TV and
ITRW) how many people *say* 'anythinK' but I wonder what percentage of
them would write is like that?

That's not a spelling error,

I didn't suggest it was, quite the opposite in fact.

just a quirky regional pronunciation.

I'm not sure I've seen any sign of that, other than maybe from people
from poorer areas who may not have enjoyed a good education, maybe
over several generations. That's often where I hear the 'we was' and
now the 'anythink'.

I
still know lots of people who would say that it that way but would
always spell it correctly.

Any that you are close enough to to ask *why* they pronounce it that way?

They basically learn to say it that way from their parents etc.

I have a mate who can easily 'lock in' a miss pronunciation
of something, if he reads / hears it incorrectly the first time.
Like he currently refers to the home automation software
as 'Home Assist', rather than 'Home Assistant'.

Sure, but that's a quite different effect and doesn't
produce lots of people doing it like that.

And when young my parents corrected me if I ever said 'we was' and why
it seems so strange that so many people also seem to get that wrong?

Yes that is weird.

And it's so commonly used in conversation so comes up pretty
frequently.

Very common in the counties around London.

In the 'old days' they employed / expected people 'on TV' to
be able to speak properly, 'BBC / received pronunciation etc.

I get that might not be so relevant today with all
the inclusion stuff however I think they do at least
need to use real words and pronunciations?

Yeah, you don't hear too many of those employed
by the BBC etc using words like anythink.

Ok, I get some people will use Tautologies ... "3am in the morning
..." or use the wrong names for things because they have only heard
others using them incorrectly ('Robin Reliant') and more cultural like
'aks' instead of 'ask', but where did the hard 'H' in 'aitch or
anythinK come from?

Hell of a lot turns up with google, unsurprisingly.

On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 04:39:55 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

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Message-ID:

On Wednesday, 14 April 2021 at 19:21:51 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 14 April 2021 at 13:34:01 UTC+1, Scion wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 11:59:04 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

snip

And where would we be without our bungalows and boomerangs?

'Boo' is an Aborigine word meaning "to return".
There are a vast number of abo languages, so that cant fly.

I never said anything about languages

https://youtu.be/XfTdnWLMLDA?t=74


If you throw an ordinary meringue...

(Milton Jones)

On Thursday, 15 April 2021 at 17:24:33 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 15:34:09 +0100, JNugent
wrote:
On 12/04/2021 06:31 pm, T i m wrote:

whisky-dave wrote:

snip

Back on the words / spelling thing, I am reminded constantly (TV and
ITRW) how many people *say* 'anythinK' but I wonder what percentage of
them would write is like that?

That's not a spelling error,
I didn't suggest it was, quite the opposite in fact.

But the English langauge changes and evolves with time.
The word fag goes back years and it's meaning has changed over time and countries.
Accdents also change the way people say words, and that doesn't mean those same people
spell them differently too.
This come come from parents, friends, those around them or TV.
I'm pretty sure that in TV scripts where someone is speaking in the north of England
might well see the words "all right love" or "alright luv" or "arite duc.
This doesn't mean the scriptwriter deosn;t know how to spell the words even if he is a notherner.

It's your translation that is faulty here.

just a quirky regional pronunciation.
I'm not sure I've seen any sign of that, other than maybe from people
from poorer areas who may not have enjoyed a good education, maybe
over several generations. That's often where I hear the 'we was' and
now the 'anythink'.

Are you sure it's not just sounds that you fail to properly understand.
If I say to a friend "alright mate ?".
You shouldn't translate this to be "Are you feeling tickity boo my old fellow ?"


I
still know lots of people who would say that it that way but would
always spell it correctly.
Any that you are close enough to to ask *why* they pronounce it that
way?

For the same reason a swedish friend sounded swedish until she spent a year at the university of birmingham
studying English and sounded like a brummie when she returned to London.

A clever perons will adapt in order to communicate with those around them.
A think **** like Boris Johnson will quote in latin to try to elivate himself above the masses
only the really stupid would think that makes him cleverer than anyone else.



I have a mate who can easily 'lock in' a miss pronunciation of
something, if he reads / hears it incorrectly the first time. Like he
currently refers to the home automation software as 'Home Assist',
rather than 'Home Assistant'.

To me it just sounds like a shortened version.
I wish they'd shorten the pointlessly long emails we get here and just say what they mean
rather than waffle on.


And when young my parents corrected me if I ever said 'we was' and why
it seems so strange that so many people also seem to get that wrong?

Yes that is weird.

And it's so commonly used in conversation so comes up pretty
frequently.

Very common in the counties around London.
In the 'old days' they employed / expected people 'on TV' to be able
to speak properly, 'BBC / received pronunciation etc.

Yes true, and they expected peole to right with the correct hand which was the right hand.


I get that might not be so relevant today with all the inclusion stuff
however I think they do at least need to use real words and
pronunciations?

What about words like **** , what does that mean in the queen RP ?


Ok, I get some people will use Tautologies ... "3am in the morning
..." or use the wrong names for things because they have only heard
others using them incorrectly ('Robin Reliant') and more cultural like
'aks' instead of 'ask', but where did the hard 'H' in 'aitch or
anythinK come from?

No idea where did teh i before c excapt after e come from when it is clearly mostly wrong.
and as for shakespeare he couldn't spell to save his ****in' life.
There's loads of word he spelt diferntly to what we do today and I'm prettyy sure the pronounciation
wasn't the same.



Cheers, T i m

On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 08:35:46 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave
wrote:

snip

But the English langauge changes and evolves with time.

Of course.

The word fag goes back years and it's meaning has changed over time and countries.
Accdents also change the way people say words, and that doesn't mean those same people
spell them differently too.

Sure, but what was of interest in the case of 'anythinK' is *why*?

snip
I'm not sure I've seen any sign of that, other than maybe from people
from poorer areas who may not have enjoyed a good education, maybe
over several generations. That's often where I hear the 'we was' and
now the 'anythink'.

Are you sure it's not just sounds that you fail to properly understand.

In the case of 'anythinK', no.

snip

For the same reason a swedish friend sounded swedish until she spent a year at the university of birmingham
studying English and sounded like a brummie when she returned to London.#

Not talking about accents or dialects, I'm talking about the
mispronunciation of a very common and easily pronounced word,
'anythinG'.

A clever perons will adapt in order to communicate with those around them.

Of course. Still doesn't answer the question *why* anythinK though, or
the hard H on aitch after all these years with most people saying it
correctly.

snip

I have a mate who can easily 'lock in' a miss pronunciation of
something, if he reads / hears it incorrectly the first time. Like he
currently refers to the home automation software as 'Home Assist',
rather than 'Home Assistant'.

To me it just sounds like a shortened version.

I know him and it isn't.

snip

Very common in the counties around London.
In the 'old days' they employed / expected people 'on TV' to be able
to speak properly, 'BBC / received pronunciation etc.

Yes true,

and they expected peole to right with the correct hand which was the right hand.

Very different issue.

snip

Ok, I get some people will use Tautologies ... "3am in the morning
..." or use the wrong names for things because they have only heard
others using them incorrectly ('Robin Reliant') and more cultural like
'aks' instead of 'ask', but where did the hard 'H' in 'aitch or
anythinK come from?

snip

Cheers, T i m

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 14 April 2021 at 19:21:51 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 14 April 2021 at 13:34:01 UTC+1, Scion wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 11:59:04 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

snip

And where would we be without our bungalows and boomerangs?

'Boo' is an Aborigine word meaning "to return".
There are a vast number of abo languages, so that cant fly.

I never said anything about languages

Even you should have noticed that words are part of a language.

https://youtu.be/XfTdnWLMLDA?t=74


If you throw an ordinary meringue...

(Milton Jones)