Ignoramus32687 wrote:

I just could not believe what I heard. (and still
have doubts about his veracity) Am I going crazy or does this sound
like a completely insane idea to you?

If he is in electronics and insane^Wengaged enough. :-)

Nick
--
Motormodelle / Engine Models:
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de
Ellwe 2FB * VTM 87 * DLM-S3a * cubic
more to come ...

Give some thought to this , a VFT takes 240V AC and converts to DC the
rectifier side of the VFD,The VFD inverter section sees the DC and inverts
it to 240 volt AC three phase. Using a VFD and supplying 240 DC from a
battery bank of sufficient size directly into the DC side of the VFD you
will create variable frequency AC hence variable speed.His project is very
doable although I doubt if anything smaller than a car will be a big enough
platform to carry sufficient battery storage.

Pete


""Nick Müller"" wrote in message
...
Ignoramus32687 wrote:

I just could not believe what I heard. (and still
have doubts about his veracity) Am I going crazy or does this sound
like a completely insane idea to you?

If he is in electronics and insane^Wengaged enough. :-)

Nick
--
Motormodelle / Engine Models:
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de
Ellwe 2FB * VTM 87 * DLM-S3a * cubic
more to come ...

I might have to start proof reading before I push send , should have read
VFD not VFT.

Pete

"Pete" wrote in message
news:_YjOe.284947$s54.244838@pd7tw2no...
Give some thought to this , a VFT takes 240V AC and converts to DC the
rectifier side of the VFD,The VFD inverter section sees the DC and inverts
it to 240 volt AC three phase. Using a VFD and supplying 240 DC from a
battery bank of sufficient size directly into the DC side of the VFD you
will create variable frequency AC hence variable speed.His project is very
doable although I doubt if anything smaller than a car will be a big
enough platform to carry sufficient battery storage.

Pete


""Nick Müller"" wrote in message
...
Ignoramus32687 wrote:

I just could not believe what I heard. (and still
have doubts about his veracity) Am I going crazy or does this sound
like a completely insane idea to you?

If he is in electronics and insane^Wengaged enough. :-)

Nick
--
Motormodelle / Engine Models:
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de
Ellwe 2FB * VTM 87 * DLM-S3a * cubic
more to come ...

Hey! Not so far fetched. We hadda a guy here in our ward a while back that
modified a large block V-8 to run on steam. For his beta model, the boiler
was mounted in the bed of a pickup. Production models have more efficient
boilers behind the back seat of SUVs. Your guy may not be so lucky with the
motorcycle though - he may run into a weight problem with all those
batteries. Now, if he could put them in a little trailer to pull behind . .
.. hmmnnn.

Bob Swinney

"Ignoramus32687" wrote in message
...
I had a visitor yesterday who responded to my craigslist ad about a
free 200V 7.5 HP 3 phase motor. A pleasant, intelligent young man. I
asked him what he was doing with the motor, and he replied that he was
going to build an electric motorcycle. His plan is, apparently, to
have a motorcycle based on batteries, inverter, phase converter, and a
3 phase motor drive. I just could not believe what I heard. (and still
have doubts about his veracity) Am I going crazy or does this sound
like a completely insane idea to you?

i

Ignoramus32687 wrote:

I see not much reason to use inversion, AC, phase conversion etc.

He could also use about 170 NiCads. :-)


Nick
--
Motormodelle / Engine Models:
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de
Ellwe 2FB * VTM 87 * DLM-S3a * cubic
more to come ...

Nasty question, iggy, real nasty! If you must know, the cylinder did rust
up on the first stroke causing a boiler explosion. Blew the whole ass-end
off of the pickup! That's when he began putting 4 inch armor plate between
the boiler and passenger area.

Bob Swinney


"Ignoramus32687" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 08:23:48 -0500, Robert Swinney
wrote:
Hey! Not so far fetched. We hadda a guy here in our ward a while back
that
modified a large block V-8 to run on steam. For his beta model, the
boiler
was mounted in the bed of a pickup. Production models have more
efficient
boilers behind the back seat of SUVs. Your guy may not be so lucky with
the
motorcycle though - he may run into a weight problem with all those
batteries. Now, if he could put them in a little trailer to pull behind
. .
. hmmnnn.

not only batteries, the motor, idler, etc all add up the
weight. Weight and size are my main concern.

Regarding that steam powered V8, I am curious how come the cylinders
did not rust very quickly, from all that heated water.

i

Bob Swinney

"Ignoramus32687" wrote in message
...
I had a visitor yesterday who responded to my craigslist ad about a
free 200V 7.5 HP 3 phase motor. A pleasant, intelligent young man. I
asked him what he was doing with the motor, and he replied that he was
going to build an electric motorcycle. His plan is, apparently, to
have a motorcycle based on batteries, inverter, phase converter, and a
3 phase motor drive. I just could not believe what I heard. (and still
have doubts about his veracity) Am I going crazy or does this sound
like a completely insane idea to you?

i





--

If I was doing an electric motorcycle, I would use a
DC motor and several small, garden tractor type
batteries. I would select how many batteries are
in the circuit to control voltage and speed.

More sense would be to have a "series/parallel" acceleration control
(just like in DC traction power applications).

I see not much reason to use inversion, AC, phase
conversion etc.

With a motorcycle, battery weight is gonna be a big issue. Anything
you can do to increase efficiency (including AC drive, regeneration,
etc.) is a big win.

There are several companies marketing rather smartly designed electric
bikes using AC propulsion and regeneration. I'm not so sure they'll
ever make money but they are technologically on or ahead of the cruve.

I'm not sure what the market would be for a battery-powered motorcycle,
exactly. Engine-powered bikes are already pretty energy efficient and
way way overpowered for my tastes. Maybe a good-performing (in terms
of endurance, not in terms of getting from 0 to 150MPH in 5 seconds...)
battery-powered unit would find a market. 7.5HP would be just about
the right size.

Tim.

Hey! I'm outta here. Gotta go mow the yard with my steam-powered
lawnmower. Don't ask.

Bob Swinney
"Robert Swinney" wrote in message
...
Nasty question, iggy, real nasty! If you must know, the cylinder did rust
up on the first stroke causing a boiler explosion. Blew the whole ass-end
off of the pickup! That's when he began putting 4 inch armor plate
between the boiler and passenger area.

Bob Swinney


"Ignoramus32687" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 08:23:48 -0500, Robert Swinney
wrote:
Hey! Not so far fetched. We hadda a guy here in our ward a while back
that
modified a large block V-8 to run on steam. For his beta model, the
boiler
was mounted in the bed of a pickup. Production models have more
efficient
boilers behind the back seat of SUVs. Your guy may not be so lucky with
the
motorcycle though - he may run into a weight problem with all those
batteries. Now, if he could put them in a little trailer to pull behind
. .
. hmmnnn.

not only batteries, the motor, idler, etc all add up the
weight. Weight and size are my main concern.

Regarding that steam powered V8, I am curious how come the cylinders
did not rust very quickly, from all that heated water.

i

Bob Swinney

"Ignoramus32687" wrote in message
...
I had a visitor yesterday who responded to my craigslist ad about a
free 200V 7.5 HP 3 phase motor. A pleasant, intelligent young man. I
asked him what he was doing with the motor, and he replied that he was
going to build an electric motorcycle. His plan is, apparently, to
have a motorcycle based on batteries, inverter, phase converter, and a
3 phase motor drive. I just could not believe what I heard. (and still
have doubts about his veracity) Am I going crazy or does this sound
like a completely insane idea to you?

i





--

snip


If I was doing an electric motorcycle, I would use a DC motor and
several small, garden tractor type batteries. I would select how many
batteries are in the circuit to control voltage and speed.

Different strokes for different folks. Going the VFD route has a lot of
merit. 20 garden tractor lead acid batteries would be around 300 pounds,
fit in a space 20"x32" x7" high.


I see not much reason to use inversion, AC, phase conversion etc.

Using all electronics might not be cheap but the VFD unit only weighs 20
pounds or so, is completely computer controlled with lots of feedback on
speed and torque, and frees you from all the heavy duty contactors and
similar.

Downside is that there is not a lot of avialable torque at low speeds
where you need it the most.

He could look at one of these
http://www.cyclesmaximus.com/electricassist.htm#lynch .
They're made locally and i've seen one go off a a rate of knots on the
flat. One of the guys who builds them said the motor is rated upto about
70V IIRC which would be scary. The 12V system goes pretty well.

Ignoramus32687 wrote:

On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 12:57:30 GMT, Pete wrote:

Give some thought to this , a VFT takes 240V AC and converts to DC the
rectifier side of the VFD,The VFD inverter section sees the DC and inverts
it to 240 volt AC three phase. Using a VFD and supplying 240 DC from a
battery bank of sufficient size directly into the DC side of the VFD you
will create variable frequency AC hence variable speed.His project is very
doable although I doubt if anything smaller than a car will be a big enough
platform to carry sufficient battery storage.


Yes, weight and size is my main issue with that project. I asked him
to keep me posted, dunno if he actually will go ahead with his project
or keep me posted if he does.

If I was doing an electric motorcycle, I would use a DC motor and
several small, garden tractor type batteries. I would select how many
batteries are in the circuit to control voltage and speed.

I see not much reason to use inversion, AC, phase conversion etc.

i

http://www.segway.com/segway/component_details.html

jw

Sounds silly. Why not a DC motor?

Ignoramus32687 wrote:
I had a visitor yesterday who responded to my craigslist ad about a
free 200V 7.5 HP 3 phase motor. A pleasant, intelligent young man. I
asked him what he was doing with the motor, and he replied that he was
going to build an electric motorcycle. His plan is, apparently, to
have a motorcycle based on batteries, inverter, phase converter, and a
3 phase motor drive. I just could not believe what I heard. (and still
have doubts about his veracity) Am I going crazy or does this sound
like a completely insane idea to you?

i

http://www.killacycle.com/pages/index.html

On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 11:27:55 GMT, Ignoramus32687
wrote:

I had a visitor yesterday who responded to my craigslist ad about a
free 200V 7.5 HP 3 phase motor. A pleasant, intelligent young man. I
asked him what he was doing with the motor, and he replied that he was
going to build an electric motorcycle. His plan is, apparently, to
have a motorcycle based on batteries, inverter, phase converter, and a
3 phase motor drive. I just could not believe what I heard. (and still
have doubts about his veracity) Am I going crazy or does this sound
like a completely insane idea to you?

Maybe he enjoys doing things in an unusual way. It's not a project
I would want to help him with, though. Induction motors are not
well-suited for propulsion because of the rather narrow speed range in
which they develop much torque. DC motors or switched-reluctance
motors are much better suited for variable-speed, have much better
low-end torque , and they tend to be lighter weight for given HP.

Brushless DC motors are really polyphase machines, but they are not
induction motors; they have either a permanent magnet field or a
driven wound field. SR motors are also polyphase machines with *no*
field. They pack a lot of power in a small, lightweight motor -- but
torque ripple can be a problem. A guy I know developed SR motors
and controls for a bus running in (I think) Taiwan. The Maytag
Neptune washing machine originally used an SR motor, maybe it still
does. Got rid of the transmission.

For the curious:
http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/...Pb02R&tid=tMfp

Batteries: a 105 amp-hour 12-volt deep cycle battery weighs about 50
lb, contains about 101 hp-minutes. At 7.5 HP this would be about
13 minutes of operation -- at 100% efficiency. Having all those
conversion will reduce efficiency quite a lot. More importantly a
105 AH battery will NOT supply 466 amps, which is 7.5 HP at 12 volts.
They're better suited to loads of up to 50 amps. He'd need 8
batteries (400 to 500 lb worth). Maybe a forklift battery.....
hey, Ig, do you see any submarines in your surplus shopping
adventures?

[series vs parallel for DC traction power]
That's beyond my knowledge...

It's very simple: idea is to not use "half the batteries" at half power
but to use all the batteries.

Traction motors had several windings which could be connected in series
(for low speeds) or in parallel (for high speeds) depending on the
application.

In a battery application with one winding you'd bank the batteries to
be in series or parallel based upon need.

But that's mostly historical... all DC traction power applications now
use "smart" electronics to drive AC motors (often 3 phase... sometimes
more!).

Tim.

Iggy sez: "Maybe he BSed me and had other purposes in mind. Which is fine
with me"

What is really scary is if he wasn't BS'ing you!

Bob (Hey! it didn't kill Ben Franklin) Swinney

Ignoramus32687 wrote:

I had a visitor yesterday who responded to my craigslist ad about a
free 200V 7.5 HP 3 phase motor. A pleasant, intelligent young man. I
asked him what he was doing with the motor, and he replied that he was
going to build an electric motorcycle. His plan is, apparently, to
have a motorcycle based on batteries, inverter, phase converter, and a
3 phase motor drive. I just could not believe what I heard. (and still
have doubts about his veracity) Am I going crazy or does this sound
like a completely insane idea to you?

i

Induction motors are bigger and heavier than the equivalent brushless
motor with permanent magnets, and an inverter is much less efficient
than rewinding the motor to whatever the battery voltage is.

Other than that...

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

My guess is that he may use the free motor for some bench testing, and
then figure that it is not the motor to use. But what the hey, it was
free and within driving range to pickup. I am sure he will learn
something from this.

Dan

http://www.segway.com/segway/component_details.html

States the motors are brushless servo technology. Sounds like a brushless
DC motor. Bottom line; the motor is running on DC, not AC.

They also appear to be use high tech magnets etc to pack 2.5HP into
a small package.

A far cry from using an old Heavy industrial 7.5HP AC motor that will
have a very limited speed range too.

I think anyone attempting to build an electric motorcycle by scrounging
up parts won't get very far.

I own 4 electric scooters. The better ones use three 12volt batterys
feeding a 36V DC motor. Surprisingly quick for a 350watt motor.
The whole scooter weighs 65 lbs and will carry an adult very well.
Very simple and works.

On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 14:18:11 GMT, the opaque Ignoramus32687
clearly wrote:

On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 08:55:15 -0500, Robert Swinney wrote:
Hey! I'm outta here. Gotta go mow the yard with my steam-powered
lawnmower. Don't ask.

you could just exterminate the grass with steam...

That's a PERFECT idea for those "lawn" thingies. I hate mowing
and wear a mask nowadays.

And the answer to your question is an unqualified "YES!"
That 7.5hp motor is what, 150# by itself? Let's see, if
he pulls the 20kW generator trailer behind him...

One thing I'd like to ask you to do, though, is to videotape
the reaction this guy has when he comes to pick up that monster.
That oughta be PRICELESS!


--

If it weren't for jumping to conclusions, some of us wouldn't get any exercise.
www.diversify.com - Jump-free website programming

"Our engineers were so obsessed with the details on the Segway HT that they
designed the meshes in the gearbox to produce sound exactly two musical
octaves apart--when the Segway HT moves, it makes music, not noise"


Uhh... this gear box makes too much noise. How can we make this sound like
a benefit?

Mark

"M" mark@maxmachinedotcom wrote in message
...
"Our engineers were so obsessed with the details on the Segway HT that
they
designed the meshes in the gearbox to produce sound exactly two musical
octaves apart--when the Segway HT moves, it makes music, not noise"


Uhh... this gear box makes too much noise. How can we make this sound
like
a benefit?

Mark

Mark

I submit that the engineer's design of the gearbox provided the sound that
the salesman made into Music.

Jerry

I am not so sure.
I bought two DC motors for next to nothing: a 90V 1 HP Leeson ($5),
and a 180V 1.5 HP Dayton with controller ($20).

Add to it a few electronic relays, this and that, and I could quickly
have a power unit built on a cart.

Getting 90V DC would require some fairly expensive and heavy batteries.
180VDc would probably be insane. You will spend way more money on
batteries than you saved on the motor. All the components have to
work together and thats pretty tough to do with scrounged parts.
You will spend so much time trying to make it work and still have
a compromised product.

I have degrees in electrical engineering. I use to think I could
design and build things cheaper than I could buy them. In college
we would build our own audio amps, digital clocks etc. It was fun
and educational, but not really cheap when you take into account
the burned out parts that are part of the learning curve.

I use the same concepts for metalworking. I repair things and build
what I cannot buy. I cannot build things for the same price they
are available commercially.


I own 4 electric scooters. The better ones use three 12volt batterys
feeding a 36V DC motor. Surprisingly quick for a 350watt motor.
The whole scooter weighs 65 lbs and will carry an adult very well.
Very simple and works.

Yes, that's what I would do as well.

My point here is simplicity. An electric motor with a chain drive
to the rear wheel. An electric speed controller and some batteries.
Very basic; leave the fancy electric vehicles to the pros with
big bucks.

M wrote:
"Our engineers were so obsessed with the details on the Segway HT that they
designed the meshes in the gearbox to produce sound exactly two musical
octaves apart--when the Segway HT moves, it makes music, not noise"


Uhh... this gear box makes too much noise. How can we make this sound like
a benefit?

I'd be way more impressed if the two "notes"
were a 5th apart.

Chuck Sherwood wrote:

I am not so sure.
I bought two DC motors for next to nothing: a 90V 1 HP Leeson ($5),
and a 180V 1.5 HP Dayton with controller ($20).


Add to it a few electronic relays, this and that, and I could quickly
have a power unit built on a cart.


Getting 90V DC would require some fairly expensive and heavy batteries.
180VDc would probably be insane. You will spend way more money on
batteries than you saved on the motor. All the components have to
work together and thats pretty tough to do with scrounged parts.
You will spend so much time trying to make it work and still have
a compromised product.

I have degrees in electrical engineering. I use to think I could
design and build things cheaper than I could buy them. In college
we would build our own audio amps, digital clocks etc. It was fun
and educational, but not really cheap when you take into account
the burned out parts that are part of the learning curve.

But when you get to be a productive engineer,
you can usually get free samples to burn out.

On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 11:27:55 GMT, Ignoramus32687
wrote:

I had a visitor yesterday who responded to my craigslist ad about a
free 200V 7.5 HP 3 phase motor. A pleasant, intelligent young man. I
asked him what he was doing with the motor, and he replied that he was
going to build an electric motorcycle. His plan is, apparently, to
have a motorcycle based on batteries, inverter, phase converter, and a
3 phase motor drive. I just could not believe what I heard. (and still
have doubts about his veracity) Am I going crazy or does this sound
like a completely insane idea to you?

i

It will work just fine, as soon as he gets his Shipstone Batteries. Or
the Mr. Fusion in the proper place on the bike.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Pete wrote:
Give some thought to this , a VFT takes 240V AC and converts to DC the
rectifier side of the VFD,The VFD inverter section sees the DC and inverts
it to 240 volt AC three phase. Using a VFD and supplying 240 DC from a
battery bank of sufficient size directly into the DC side of the VFD you
will create variable frequency AC hence variable speed.His project is very
doable although I doubt if anything smaller than a car will be a big enough
platform to carry sufficient battery storage.
Actually, you need to supply a 240 V VFD with about 340 - 360 V DC,
which is the peak voltage of a 240 V line. You probably want to use
a 240 V battery stack or a bidirectional voltage converter, as the VFD
will pull energy back from the motor on deceleration. How the HELL
you will pack all of that PLUS the 7.5 Hp motor into even a large
motorcycle frame is beyond me. I've seen it done to a Ford Taurus
station wagon, and there WAS enough room there. But a motorcycle?
Better be miniaturized electronics and batteries!

Finally, is 7.5 Hp enough? I have my doubts.

Jon

Ignoramus32687 wrote:
On 22 Aug 2005 09:53:42 -0700, Tim Shoppa wrote:

[series vs parallel for DC traction power]

That's beyond my knowledge...

It's very simple: idea is to not use "half the batteries" at half power
but to use all the batteries.

Traction motors had several windings which could be connected in series
(for low speeds) or in parallel (for high speeds) depending on the
application.

In a battery application with one winding you'd bank the batteries to
be in series or parallel based upon need.

But that's mostly historical... all DC traction power applications now
use "smart" electronics to drive AC motors (often 3 phase... sometimes
more!).


I got it, thanks.

What I was thinking about, idly, was to make a 3 phase inverter. Can't
see why it would be impossible.
But, that's a VFD, right off the shelf.

Jon

On 22 Aug 2005 09:53:42 -0700, "Tim Shoppa"
wrote:

[series vs parallel for DC traction power]
That's beyond my knowledge...

It's very simple: idea is to not use "half the batteries" at half power
but to use all the batteries.

Traction motors had several windings which could be connected in series
(for low speeds) or in parallel (for high speeds) depending on the
application.

In a battery application with one winding you'd bank the batteries to
be in series or parallel based upon need.

But that's mostly historical... all DC traction power applications now
use "smart" electronics to drive AC motors (often 3 phase... sometimes
more!).

They are polyphase AC motors, but they're not induction motors.

There's really no such thing as a "DC motor". In motors that run on
DC, commutation is accomplished either with brushes on a commutator,
or with electronics. In either case, the windings are driven with
AC. That's why even DC motors are made with steel laminations, not
just big chunks of cast or forged iron or steel.

Don Foreman wrote:

On 22 Aug 2005 09:53:42 -0700, "Tim Shoppa"
wrote:


[series vs parallel for DC traction power]

That's beyond my knowledge...

It's very simple: idea is to not use "half the batteries" at half power
but to use all the batteries.

Traction motors had several windings which could be connected in series
(for low speeds) or in parallel (for high speeds) depending on the
application.

In a battery application with one winding you'd bank the batteries to
be in series or parallel based upon need.

But that's mostly historical... all DC traction power applications now
use "smart" electronics to drive AC motors (often 3 phase... sometimes
more!).


They are polyphase AC motors, but they're not induction motors.

There's really no such thing as a "DC motor". In motors that run on
DC, commutation is accomplished either with brushes on a commutator,
or with electronics. In either case, the windings are driven with
AC. That's why even DC motors are made with steel laminations, not
just big chunks of cast or forged iron or steel.

If you'll excuse my pedantics, I believe
a homopolar motor could be called a true
"DC motor".

Ignoramus32687 wrote:

On 22 Aug 2005 18:50:44 GMT, Chuck Sherwood wrote:

I am not so sure.
I bought two DC motors for next to nothing: a 90V 1 HP Leeson ($5),
and a 180V 1.5 HP Dayton with controller ($20).

Add to it a few electronic relays, this and that, and I could quickly
have a power unit built on a cart.

Getting 90V DC would require some fairly expensive and heavy batteries.


Hm, he could just buy 8 garden tractor batteries. Not exactly cheap,
but not that expensive.


180VDc would probably be insane.


Agreed.


You will spend way more money on batteries than you saved on the
motor. All the components have to work together and thats pretty
tough to do with scrounged parts.


Well, that's a part of fun of life. After all, it is much easier to
buy a working gasoline motorcycle than it is to dick around with
strange motors.

Based on my limited experience, it's easier
to buy a *broke* gasoline motocycle and fix
it than to dick around with strange motors.

Hm, he could just buy 8 garden tractor batteries. Not exactly cheap,
but not that expensive.

But not really suited to the job, becasue they are not deep cycle
batteries.


I use the same concepts for metalworking. I repair things and build
what I cannot buy. I cannot build things for the same price they
are available commercially.

That statement is too broad. The guys who made compressed homemade air
dryers are way ahead, money wise and likely functionality wise.

You are correct.

But I still think making a motorcycle with a large heavy 3phase motor
is the wrong approach.
chuck

On 22 Aug 2005 18:50:44 GMT, (Chuck
Sherwood) wrote:



I have degrees in electrical engineering. I use to think I could
design and build things cheaper than I could buy them. In college
we would build our own audio amps, digital clocks etc. It was fun
and educational, but not really cheap when you take into account
the burned out parts that are part of the learning curve.

It's hard to get cheaper than mass production, particularly offshore
mass production, with a one-off. However....

take a look at electric drives for boat lifts.
http://boatliftmotor.com/products/boatliftmotors.htm

Not counting enjoyable shop time, I'm quite sure you or I could
design and build something like that for a whole lot less
than what they're asking.

Motor & gear train: Harbor Freight, item # 92860, $49.99.
Drive wheel: haven't figured that out yet. Maybe Tim Williams
would pour me one out of aluminum if I sent him a pattern......???

On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 11:56:08 -0700, Jim Stewart
wrote:

Chuck Sherwood wrote:

I am not so sure.
I bought two DC motors for next to nothing: a 90V 1 HP Leeson ($5),
and a 180V 1.5 HP Dayton with controller ($20).


Add to it a few electronic relays, this and that, and I could quickly
have a power unit built on a cart.


Getting 90V DC would require some fairly expensive and heavy batteries.
180VDc would probably be insane. You will spend way more money on
batteries than you saved on the motor. All the components have to
work together and thats pretty tough to do with scrounged parts.
You will spend so much time trying to make it work and still have
a compromised product.

I have degrees in electrical engineering. I use to think I could
design and build things cheaper than I could buy them. In college
we would build our own audio amps, digital clocks etc. It was fun
and educational, but not really cheap when you take into account
the burned out parts that are part of the learning curve.

But when you get to be a productive engineer,
you can usually get free samples to burn out.

Having a son that is a silicon peddler works too!

Since a friend cooked an $800 inverter, trying to make an electric boat
driven from multiple drill motors (!), I'd need some reassurance that
the electronics wouldn't give up the ghost first.

Jordan

have a motorcycle based on batteries, inverter, phase converter, and a
3 phase motor drive.

I was thinking of this ,too bad you don't know if this going to be a
trike or a 2 wheeled motorcycle ,or if he is going to be running a
motorcycle transmission or not ,if he built a trike then he can easily
get a generator head from harbour freight for like a couple hundred
bucks and you can buy small engines of different sizes all over the
place to power it for little bit of money and put it in a small trailer
with a small battery bank in it you could actually have almost limitless
range with it (when the power gets down just hit a switch to start the
generator run off it while the residual power is recharging the
batteries then when charged up switch off the generator and run off
batteries) if i remember right the new electric conversion kits run a 3
phase motor hooked to the stock transmission ,because they go better in
traffic
and since they do have an electric motor you can't stall it and it don't
really have a torque range so you get plenty of power to the wheels i
wont be surprised if he is building a trike like that ,but if it is a 2
wheeled bike you can still hook it up to the tranny using a 3" belt to
the tranny and adjust the sprockets for best speed
and would be a great little runabout for the local area he wouldn't have
to use gas for little runs
which could save him hundreds of dollars in gas (this would be my second
guess ) since a car uses more gas on short runs
just my 2 cents

A friend of mine built an electric motorcycle from scratch.
He used 2 12v deep cycle marine batteries, but was unhappy with the
performance.
He opted for nickel metal hydride cells.
About 210 of them, IIRC
It did work to his satisfaction.

He got bored with it, though, removed the battery pack, and installed a Wren
brand model turboprop engine unit.
Also a success, and turn way more heads in traffic.
If you follow behind him, you can read peoples' lips...
"what the ..."


""Nick Müller"" wrote in message
...
Ignoramus32687 wrote:

I see not much reason to use inversion, AC, phase conversion etc.

He could also use about 170 NiCads. :-)


Nick
--
Motormodelle / Engine Models:
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de
Ellwe 2FB * VTM 87 * DLM-S3a * cubic
more to come ...

I'd like to know what his range was.
Steam power consumes an awful lot of water.


"Ignoramus32687" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 08:23:48 -0500, Robert Swinney
wrote:
Hey! Not so far fetched. We hadda a guy here in our ward a while back
that
modified a large block V-8 to run on steam. For his beta model, the
boiler
was mounted in the bed of a pickup. Production models have more
efficient
boilers behind the back seat of SUVs. Your guy may not be so lucky with
the
motorcycle though - he may run into a weight problem with all those
batteries. Now, if he could put them in a little trailer to pull behind
. .
. hmmnnn.

not only batteries, the motor, idler, etc all add up the
weight. Weight and size are my main concern.

Regarding that steam powered V8, I am curious how come the cylinders
did not rust very quickly, from all that heated water.

i

Bob Swinney

"Ignoramus32687" wrote in message
...
I had a visitor yesterday who responded to my craigslist ad about a
free 200V 7.5 HP 3 phase motor. A pleasant, intelligent young man. I
asked him what he was doing with the motor, and he replied that he was
going to build an electric motorcycle. His plan is, apparently, to
have a motorcycle based on batteries, inverter, phase converter, and a
3 phase motor drive. I just could not believe what I heard. (and still
have doubts about his veracity) Am I going crazy or does this sound
like a completely insane idea to you?

i





--

On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 14:36:30 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On 22 Aug 2005 18:50:44 GMT, (Chuck
Sherwood) wrote:



I have degrees in electrical engineering. I use to think I could
design and build things cheaper than I could buy them. In college
we would build our own audio amps, digital clocks etc. It was fun
and educational, but not really cheap when you take into account
the burned out parts that are part of the learning curve.

It's hard to get cheaper than mass production, particularly offshore
mass production, with a one-off. However....

take a look at electric drives for boat lifts.
http://boatliftmotor.com/products/boatliftmotors.htm

I like the Sidewinder Remote control Direct "Dive" motor myself. :-)

Not counting enjoyable shop time, I'm quite sure you or I could
design and build something like that for a whole lot less
than what they're asking.

Motor & gear train: Harbor Freight, item # 92860, $49.99.
Drive wheel: haven't figured that out yet. Maybe Tim Williams
would pour me one out of aluminum if I sent him a pattern......???

I think the wheel needs to be rubber coated. Say a good heavy duty
rubber tired caster wheel.


Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm

"Ignoramus32687" wrote in message
...
| I had a visitor yesterday who responded to my craigslist ad about a
| free 200V 7.5 HP 3 phase motor. A pleasant, intelligent young man. I
| asked him what he was doing with the motor, and he replied that he was
| going to build an electric motorcycle. His plan is, apparently, to
| have a motorcycle based on batteries, inverter, phase converter, and a
| 3 phase motor drive. I just could not believe what I heard. (and still
| have doubts about his veracity) Am I going crazy or does this sound
| like a completely insane idea to you?
|
| i

Not insane. Just ignorant. Not his fault. I bet that he's got just
enough knowledge under his belt to be dangerous, so if I were you, I'd let
him have it. He can't kill himself (I doubt it, anyway!) with it but I'm
sure he'll learn a whole lot about efficiency in the process, which coupled
with his real understanding of how things work, will undoubtedly be useful
some day. Let him know that you'd like to be there if he has any issues,
which will for sure be the case. You never know, he just might come up with
something useful, although not what he started out to do!
I've done far worse than that when I was a kid. My dad really got fed
up with all the fuses I was blowing in the house from junk I was whipping up
and plugging into the wall! I'd say I've done a bit better as I got older
and just slightly wiser.