Ignoramus32687 wrote:

I just could not believe what I heard. (and still
have doubts about his veracity) Am I going crazy or does this sound
like a completely insane idea to you?

If he is in electronics and insane^Wengaged enough. :-)

Nick
--
Motormodelle / Engine Models:
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de
Ellwe 2FB * VTM 87 * DLM-S3a * cubic
more to come ...

Give some thought to this , a VFT takes 240V AC and converts to DC the
rectifier side of the VFD,The VFD inverter section sees the DC and inverts
it to 240 volt AC three phase. Using a VFD and supplying 240 DC from a
battery bank of sufficient size directly into the DC side of the VFD you
will create variable frequency AC hence variable speed.His project is very
doable although I doubt if anything smaller than a car will be a big enough
platform to carry sufficient battery storage.

Pete


""Nick Müller"" wrote in message
...
Ignoramus32687 wrote:

I just could not believe what I heard. (and still
have doubts about his veracity) Am I going crazy or does this sound
like a completely insane idea to you?

If he is in electronics and insane^Wengaged enough. :-)

Nick
--
Motormodelle / Engine Models:
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de
Ellwe 2FB * VTM 87 * DLM-S3a * cubic
more to come ...

I might have to start proof reading before I push send , should have read
VFD not VFT.

Pete

"Pete" wrote in message
news:_YjOe.284947$s54.244838@pd7tw2no...
Give some thought to this , a VFT takes 240V AC and converts to DC the
rectifier side of the VFD,The VFD inverter section sees the DC and inverts
it to 240 volt AC three phase. Using a VFD and supplying 240 DC from a
battery bank of sufficient size directly into the DC side of the VFD you
will create variable frequency AC hence variable speed.His project is very
doable although I doubt if anything smaller than a car will be a big
enough platform to carry sufficient battery storage.

Pete


""Nick Müller"" wrote in message
...
Ignoramus32687 wrote:

I just could not believe what I heard. (and still
have doubts about his veracity) Am I going crazy or does this sound
like a completely insane idea to you?

If he is in electronics and insane^Wengaged enough. :-)

Nick
--
Motormodelle / Engine Models:
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de
Ellwe 2FB * VTM 87 * DLM-S3a * cubic
more to come ...

http://www.segway.com/segway/component_details.html

jw

http://www.segway.com/segway/component_details.html

States the motors are brushless servo technology. Sounds like a brushless
DC motor. Bottom line; the motor is running on DC, not AC.

They also appear to be use high tech magnets etc to pack 2.5HP into
a small package.

A far cry from using an old Heavy industrial 7.5HP AC motor that will
have a very limited speed range too.

I think anyone attempting to build an electric motorcycle by scrounging
up parts won't get very far.

I own 4 electric scooters. The better ones use three 12volt batterys
feeding a 36V DC motor. Surprisingly quick for a 350watt motor.
The whole scooter weighs 65 lbs and will carry an adult very well.
Very simple and works.

"Our engineers were so obsessed with the details on the Segway HT that they
designed the meshes in the gearbox to produce sound exactly two musical
octaves apart--when the Segway HT moves, it makes music, not noise"


Uhh... this gear box makes too much noise. How can we make this sound like
a benefit?

Mark

"M" mark@maxmachinedotcom wrote in message
...
"Our engineers were so obsessed with the details on the Segway HT that
they
designed the meshes in the gearbox to produce sound exactly two musical
octaves apart--when the Segway HT moves, it makes music, not noise"


Uhh... this gear box makes too much noise. How can we make this sound
like
a benefit?

Mark

Mark

I submit that the engineer's design of the gearbox provided the sound that
the salesman made into Music.

Jerry

M wrote:
"Our engineers were so obsessed with the details on the Segway HT that they
designed the meshes in the gearbox to produce sound exactly two musical
octaves apart--when the Segway HT moves, it makes music, not noise"


Uhh... this gear box makes too much noise. How can we make this sound like
a benefit?

I'd be way more impressed if the two "notes"
were a 5th apart.

Pete wrote:
Give some thought to this , a VFT takes 240V AC and converts to DC the
rectifier side of the VFD,The VFD inverter section sees the DC and inverts
it to 240 volt AC three phase. Using a VFD and supplying 240 DC from a
battery bank of sufficient size directly into the DC side of the VFD you
will create variable frequency AC hence variable speed.His project is very
doable although I doubt if anything smaller than a car will be a big enough
platform to carry sufficient battery storage.
Actually, you need to supply a 240 V VFD with about 340 - 360 V DC,
which is the peak voltage of a 240 V line. You probably want to use
a 240 V battery stack or a bidirectional voltage converter, as the VFD
will pull energy back from the motor on deceleration. How the HELL
you will pack all of that PLUS the 7.5 Hp motor into even a large
motorcycle frame is beyond me. I've seen it done to a Ford Taurus
station wagon, and there WAS enough room there. But a motorcycle?
Better be miniaturized electronics and batteries!

Finally, is 7.5 Hp enough? I have my doubts.

Jon

Hey! Not so far fetched. We hadda a guy here in our ward a while back that
modified a large block V-8 to run on steam. For his beta model, the boiler
was mounted in the bed of a pickup. Production models have more efficient
boilers behind the back seat of SUVs. Your guy may not be so lucky with the
motorcycle though - he may run into a weight problem with all those
batteries. Now, if he could put them in a little trailer to pull behind . .
.. hmmnnn.

Bob Swinney

"Ignoramus32687" wrote in message
...
I had a visitor yesterday who responded to my craigslist ad about a
free 200V 7.5 HP 3 phase motor. A pleasant, intelligent young man. I
asked him what he was doing with the motor, and he replied that he was
going to build an electric motorcycle. His plan is, apparently, to
have a motorcycle based on batteries, inverter, phase converter, and a
3 phase motor drive. I just could not believe what I heard. (and still
have doubts about his veracity) Am I going crazy or does this sound
like a completely insane idea to you?

i

Sounds silly. Why not a DC motor?

Ignoramus32687 wrote:
I had a visitor yesterday who responded to my craigslist ad about a
free 200V 7.5 HP 3 phase motor. A pleasant, intelligent young man. I
asked him what he was doing with the motor, and he replied that he was
going to build an electric motorcycle. His plan is, apparently, to
have a motorcycle based on batteries, inverter, phase converter, and a
3 phase motor drive. I just could not believe what I heard. (and still
have doubts about his veracity) Am I going crazy or does this sound
like a completely insane idea to you?

i

http://www.killacycle.com/pages/index.html

On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 11:27:55 GMT, Ignoramus32687
wrote:

I had a visitor yesterday who responded to my craigslist ad about a
free 200V 7.5 HP 3 phase motor. A pleasant, intelligent young man. I
asked him what he was doing with the motor, and he replied that he was
going to build an electric motorcycle. His plan is, apparently, to
have a motorcycle based on batteries, inverter, phase converter, and a
3 phase motor drive. I just could not believe what I heard. (and still
have doubts about his veracity) Am I going crazy or does this sound
like a completely insane idea to you?

Maybe he enjoys doing things in an unusual way. It's not a project
I would want to help him with, though. Induction motors are not
well-suited for propulsion because of the rather narrow speed range in
which they develop much torque. DC motors or switched-reluctance
motors are much better suited for variable-speed, have much better
low-end torque , and they tend to be lighter weight for given HP.

Brushless DC motors are really polyphase machines, but they are not
induction motors; they have either a permanent magnet field or a
driven wound field. SR motors are also polyphase machines with *no*
field. They pack a lot of power in a small, lightweight motor -- but
torque ripple can be a problem. A guy I know developed SR motors
and controls for a bus running in (I think) Taiwan. The Maytag
Neptune washing machine originally used an SR motor, maybe it still
does. Got rid of the transmission.

For the curious:
http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/...Pb02R&tid=tMfp

Batteries: a 105 amp-hour 12-volt deep cycle battery weighs about 50
lb, contains about 101 hp-minutes. At 7.5 HP this would be about
13 minutes of operation -- at 100% efficiency. Having all those
conversion will reduce efficiency quite a lot. More importantly a
105 AH battery will NOT supply 466 amps, which is 7.5 HP at 12 volts.
They're better suited to loads of up to 50 amps. He'd need 8
batteries (400 to 500 lb worth). Maybe a forklift battery.....
hey, Ig, do you see any submarines in your surplus shopping
adventures?

My guess is that he may use the free motor for some bench testing, and
then figure that it is not the motor to use. But what the hey, it was
free and within driving range to pickup. I am sure he will learn
something from this.

Dan

Ignoramus32687 wrote:

I had a visitor yesterday who responded to my craigslist ad about a
free 200V 7.5 HP 3 phase motor. A pleasant, intelligent young man. I
asked him what he was doing with the motor, and he replied that he was
going to build an electric motorcycle. His plan is, apparently, to
have a motorcycle based on batteries, inverter, phase converter, and a
3 phase motor drive. I just could not believe what I heard. (and still
have doubts about his veracity) Am I going crazy or does this sound
like a completely insane idea to you?

i

Induction motors are bigger and heavier than the equivalent brushless
motor with permanent magnets, and an inverter is much less efficient
than rewinding the motor to whatever the battery voltage is.

Other than that...

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

You could always put the batteries in a trailer or a sidecar. Still
sorta cobby but it might get him around the block.
Wait till Doug Goncz reads this and tells about his super capacitor
powered bicycle.

On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 11:27:55 GMT, Ignoramus32687
wrote:

I had a visitor yesterday who responded to my craigslist ad about a
free 200V 7.5 HP 3 phase motor. A pleasant, intelligent young man. I
asked him what he was doing with the motor, and he replied that he was
going to build an electric motorcycle. His plan is, apparently, to
have a motorcycle based on batteries, inverter, phase converter, and a
3 phase motor drive. I just could not believe what I heard. (and still
have doubts about his veracity) Am I going crazy or does this sound
like a completely insane idea to you?

i

It will work just fine, as soon as he gets his Shipstone Batteries. Or
the Mr. Fusion in the proper place on the bike.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Since a friend cooked an $800 inverter, trying to make an electric boat
driven from multiple drill motors (!), I'd need some reassurance that
the electronics wouldn't give up the ghost first.

Jordan

have a motorcycle based on batteries, inverter, phase converter, and a
3 phase motor drive.

I was thinking of this ,too bad you don't know if this going to be a
trike or a 2 wheeled motorcycle ,or if he is going to be running a
motorcycle transmission or not ,if he built a trike then he can easily
get a generator head from harbour freight for like a couple hundred
bucks and you can buy small engines of different sizes all over the
place to power it for little bit of money and put it in a small trailer
with a small battery bank in it you could actually have almost limitless
range with it (when the power gets down just hit a switch to start the
generator run off it while the residual power is recharging the
batteries then when charged up switch off the generator and run off
batteries) if i remember right the new electric conversion kits run a 3
phase motor hooked to the stock transmission ,because they go better in
traffic
and since they do have an electric motor you can't stall it and it don't
really have a torque range so you get plenty of power to the wheels i
wont be surprised if he is building a trike like that ,but if it is a 2
wheeled bike you can still hook it up to the tranny using a 3" belt to
the tranny and adjust the sprockets for best speed
and would be a great little runabout for the local area he wouldn't have
to use gas for little runs
which could save him hundreds of dollars in gas (this would be my second
guess ) since a car uses more gas on short runs
just my 2 cents

"Ignoramus32687" wrote in message
...
| I had a visitor yesterday who responded to my craigslist ad about a
| free 200V 7.5 HP 3 phase motor. A pleasant, intelligent young man. I
| asked him what he was doing with the motor, and he replied that he was
| going to build an electric motorcycle. His plan is, apparently, to
| have a motorcycle based on batteries, inverter, phase converter, and a
| 3 phase motor drive. I just could not believe what I heard. (and still
| have doubts about his veracity) Am I going crazy or does this sound
| like a completely insane idea to you?
|
| i

Not insane. Just ignorant. Not his fault. I bet that he's got just
enough knowledge under his belt to be dangerous, so if I were you, I'd let
him have it. He can't kill himself (I doubt it, anyway!) with it but I'm
sure he'll learn a whole lot about efficiency in the process, which coupled
with his real understanding of how things work, will undoubtedly be useful
some day. Let him know that you'd like to be there if he has any issues,
which will for sure be the case. You never know, he just might come up with
something useful, although not what he started out to do!
I've done far worse than that when I was a kid. My dad really got fed
up with all the fuses I was blowing in the house from junk I was whipping up
and plugging into the wall! I'd say I've done a bit better as I got older
and just slightly wiser.

as carl said - not insanity, but a bit misguided - your motor will be very
heavy for his app - there are 300 HP motors (!!!) that are about 4in
diameterX8 inches long (if I remember right) - used in aircraft
applications - not 300 HP continuous, mind you - that type of motor is what
he really needs. probably more than 3 phase, but it's been a while and I
don't remember the details - it did have a PM armature
"carl mciver" wrote in message
.net...
"Ignoramus32687" wrote in message
...
| I had a visitor yesterday who responded to my craigslist ad about a
| free 200V 7.5 HP 3 phase motor. A pleasant, intelligent young man. I
| asked him what he was doing with the motor, and he replied that he was
| going to build an electric motorcycle. His plan is, apparently, to
| have a motorcycle based on batteries, inverter, phase converter, and a
| 3 phase motor drive. I just could not believe what I heard. (and still
| have doubts about his veracity) Am I going crazy or does this sound
| like a completely insane idea to you?
|
| i

Not insane. Just ignorant. Not his fault. I bet that he's got just
enough knowledge under his belt to be dangerous, so if I were you, I'd let
him have it. He can't kill himself (I doubt it, anyway!) with it but I'm
sure he'll learn a whole lot about efficiency in the process, which
coupled
with his real understanding of how things work, will undoubtedly be useful
some day. Let him know that you'd like to be there if he has any issues,
which will for sure be the case. You never know, he just might come up
with
something useful, although not what he started out to do!
I've done far worse than that when I was a kid. My dad really got fed
up with all the fuses I was blowing in the house from junk I was whipping
up
and plugging into the wall! I'd say I've done a bit better as I got older
and just slightly wiser.

--Check out the National Electric Drag Racing Association, heh.

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : My shop is open to
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : visiting dog-nitaries...
http://www.nmpproducts.com/intro.htm
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

I pedaled my 100lb Puch moped about 3 miles in a pouring rain late at
night and part of it was up a very long steep hill. I had run ot of gas
and there was a girl (and gas) waiting for me at the destination so I
was motivated and only 19 years old.