On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 16:24:27 -0500, "shu" wrote:

before you demonize the owner,
remember those are allegations that the illegal's put on him.

some of the OTHER illegals that were detained but didn't sue, said they were
given milk and cookies and water.

regardless, the "gubnerment" didn't come to protect him, and people have a
right to protect themselves and their property.

It is an absolute travesty, that these worthless Bums, and i'm including the
lawyer and judge in that. could basically steal this mans land.

It's improper to treat people that badly.
Even non-citizens.
Tough.
That was an armed assault by a felon in possession of a firearm.
That he seemed to be a typical winger is no excuse.
--
Cliff

On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 10:05:12 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 12:51:52 GMT, jeff
wrote:
Cliff wrote:
"... oil prices surged to a record-high at 70.80 a barrel early
Monday .... "
The suppliers -- mainly the mid-east -- have never regarded
pieces of paper with pictures of funny looking people on them as
"real" money. Real money to most of them is gold and silver.
This view was greatly reinforced when George Soros launched the
great currency raid after the American and European central banks
had requested their national central banks to cease currency
speculation / hedging. For insight into how the majority of
Arabs perceive oil prices, download the historical prices for
oil, gold, and silver, convert the price per bbl into gold and
silver, and plot this against time.
For some insight into the Islamic perceptions of "money" see
http://store.yahoo.com/islamicbookstore-com/b6616.html ,
http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywo...nce/adopt.html
,
http://islamic-world.net/economics/dinar.htm
http://www.bogvaerker.dk/Bookwright/Money.html

As for the run-up in prices. This was long overdue, based on the
simple fact that it is both easier and cheaper to sell one barrel
of oil for 70$ than 7 barrels of oil for 10$. It appears that
the Arabs with their massive financial resources have become
involved in a big way in the petroleum futures and derivatives
markets. This is a exceptionally stupid "investment" in that the
supply and thus the price can be set by one of the players, who
also has several thousand years of family experience in the
bazaar and as traders along the silk road.

Well, consider ..... it would probably be illegal to conspire
to raise prices, right?

Unless you do it this way .... while the neocons grin
and their friends pocket many dollars.

And things like the SEC have been about gutted ... even
as there has been huge growth in the number of government
employees and huge spending increases ....

I wish someone could explain to me how the reduction in the capacity
to process a feedstock results in an increased price for that raw feedstock.
==========================
This assumes that these are the "arms length" processes they used
to be.

A few moments consideration revels that most of the gasoline
producing companies are also in the crude oil business. Indeed,
because of the highly biased U.S. tax structure, a dollar profit
earned overseas and exempt from any taxes is worth considerably
more than a dollar profit earned in the U.S. subject to income,
franchise, and other taxes.

And, being bush-buddies, they all (mostly) just got huge
welfare checks from the US taxpayer ....
Gunner will be so very pleased.

This is exacerbated when generation
of the dollar profit in the U.S. entails enormous investments of
time and money into environmental studies, capital investments,
and considerable real/personal property taxes. Thus much of the
oil price run-up is actually transfer pricing to shift taxable US
profits to international tax free profits. BTW - you, I, and all
the other taxpayers will have to make up the tax shortfall this
will cause at all levels of government.

Naw, the wingers & neocons will claim that the price hikes
are tax cuts.

A major contributing factor is the passive (and possibly active)
participation of the U.S. government in the run-up of crude oil
prices. The capital transferred because of the massive imports
of petroleum and inexpensive Chinese manufactured goods is the
main source of capital to purchase the enormous amounts of
t-bills and government bonds at zero or in some cases negative
interest rates, after inflation.

Huge amounts of this import generated capital is also being
invested in commercial paper and corporate bonds that are being
used to support/inflate the housing bubble and sustain the
credit-card consumer binge. I have seen several places that as
much as 40% of Diatech/GMAC capital has come from China in the
last few years.

As long as the US government and the major [nominally] American
corporations are getting their cut, nothing will change, except
that the oil prices will go even higher. [look for 100$/bbl oil
by Xmas]

Note that this is not "free" money, but money that is
legitimately belongs to the people of the countries that are
exporting the oil.

IIRC The US is the only one where the mineral rights are
private. About anyplace else, the people as a whole (IE the
government) own all the rights.

It is simply being stolen by their
governments, with a large share going to the god-fathers [U.S.
government and corporations] for "protection."

--
Cliff

snip
IIRC The US is the only one where the mineral rights are
private. About anyplace else, the people as a whole (IE the
government) own all the rights.
=====================================
It was only on re-reading this observation that I made the
connections between it, the historical "Clearances of the
Scottish Highlands" [see
http://www.scotlandspast.org/highland.cfm ,
http://www.theclearances.org/ ,
http://www.electricscotland.com/history/clearances.htm and about
57,000 more], a book called the "Tragedy of the Commons" by
Garrett Hardin [see:
http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/T...heCommons.html ],
and an economic term called "vent for value."

"Vent for value" is easily described: "if there is anything of
value, someone will be there to take it for their own profit."
This is particularly true of "large" assets such as pasture,
timberland and mineral resources, which may have long established
but loosely defined communally ownership. Under the golden rule
["When you have the gold you make the rules"], it is easy in this
situation for a single individual or organization to allege and
enforce "ownership," and thus obtain the "vented value" for their
own use. Frequently this results in the depletion/destruction of
the asset, generally at great economic/social loss/hardship for
everyone else.

A European example was the conversion of the communally owned
clan lands of the Scottish Highlands, historically and
traditionally only administered and allocated according to long
established custom by the clan chieftain, to the personal
ownership of the clan chieftain, now self-styled as "the Laird of
the clan" to be used/disposed as he saw fit for his personal
gain. It was soon discovered that sheep raising on an industrial
scale was far more profitable to the "Laird" than the meager
rents paid by the now tenants/sharecroppers, practicing their
traditional subsistence agriculture. It was nothing personal,
just business, but all the clan members above those necessary to
herd sheep had to go, so these were deported to America,
Australia, or starved to death to make room for the sheep. The
only thing exceptional about this was it was necessary to get rid
of the people.

"Tragedy of the Commons" details how the obstinacy of the greedy
and shortsighted few in maximizing their immediate return, and
their refusal to invest in maintenance/upkeep, causes the
depletion/collapse of communal/common resources with horrific
losses for ever one else.

This seems to be a recap of the existing petroleum situation in a
"nutshell."

Can you say, "Proctologically Violated", boyzngerlz?
Can you say, "Proctological Violation is *inherent* in our "democratic
system" ", boyzngerlz?
Biological fact: The rich are much better hung than the poor.
Why?
Simple Darwinism, foo's, Natural Selection.

Free investment advice: Vaseline, Prep H, hemorrhoidal laser surgery
equipment..
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll
"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
...
snip
IIRC The US is the only one where the mineral rights are
private. About anyplace else, the people as a whole (IE the
government) own all the rights.
=====================================
It was only on re-reading this observation that I made the
connections between it, the historical "Clearances of the
Scottish Highlands" [see
http://www.scotlandspast.org/highland.cfm ,
http://www.theclearances.org/ ,
http://www.electricscotland.com/history/clearances.htm and about
57,000 more], a book called the "Tragedy of the Commons" by
Garrett Hardin [see:
http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/T...heCommons.html ],
and an economic term called "vent for value."

"Vent for value" is easily described: "if there is anything of
value, someone will be there to take it for their own profit."
This is particularly true of "large" assets such as pasture,
timberland and mineral resources, which may have long established
but loosely defined communally ownership. Under the golden rule
["When you have the gold you make the rules"], it is easy in this
situation for a single individual or organization to allege and
enforce "ownership," and thus obtain the "vented value" for their
own use. Frequently this results in the depletion/destruction of
the asset, generally at great economic/social loss/hardship for
everyone else.

A European example was the conversion of the communally owned
clan lands of the Scottish Highlands, historically and
traditionally only administered and allocated according to long
established custom by the clan chieftain, to the personal
ownership of the clan chieftain, now self-styled as "the Laird of
the clan" to be used/disposed as he saw fit for his personal
gain. It was soon discovered that sheep raising on an industrial
scale was far more profitable to the "Laird" than the meager
rents paid by the now tenants/sharecroppers, practicing their
traditional subsistence agriculture. It was nothing personal,
just business, but all the clan members above those necessary to
herd sheep had to go, so these were deported to America,
Australia, or starved to death to make room for the sheep. The
only thing exceptional about this was it was necessary to get rid
of the people.

"Tragedy of the Commons" details how the obstinacy of the greedy
and shortsighted few in maximizing their immediate return, and
their refusal to invest in maintenance/upkeep, causes the
depletion/collapse of communal/common resources with horrific
losses for ever one else.

This seems to be a recap of the existing petroleum situation in a
"nutshell."