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Old December 29th 18, 06:16 PM posted to alt.sci.physics,uk.d-i-y,alt.home.repair
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Default Slow microwave ovens



"Bill Gill" wrote in message
...
On 12/29/2018 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW? They
were invented decades ago.

Higher powered microwaves would require higher powered electric
outlets, probably 220VAC (in the USA).


Yes, but that's only a problem in the USA and other 110V countrys.

Also it is questionable whether higher powered ovens would be
practical for use. Getting warming times down to a couple of
seconds might not be a good idea. More speed is not always better.


Any decent microwave fixes that problem already with you being able to
use other than full power for what works better at lower power settings.


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Old December 29th 18, 06:16 PM posted to alt.home.repair,uk.d-i-y,alt.electronics,alt.sci.physics
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Default Slow microwave ovens

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:38:04 -0000, Clare Snyder wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 08:07:42 -0800, Bob F wrote:

On 12/29/2018 6:37 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 9:23:42 AM UTC-5, Bill Gill wrote:
On 12/29/2018 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW? They
were invented decades ago.
Higher powered microwaves would require higher powered electric
outlets, probably 220VAC (in the USA).

Also it is questionable whether higher powered ovens would be
practical for use. Getting warming times down to a couple of
seconds might not be a good idea. More speed is not always better.

Bill

+1

That about covers it. Not sure how useful more power would be. For example,
last night I was thawing out a tomato sauce in a quart plastic container.
The Panasonic has a defrost mode that uses about 30% power and cycles that.



It gets the 30% power by cycling the 100% power on 30% of the time.

(By the way, adjusting the level does not actually change the wattage.
It simply means the microwave will pulse on and off at its fixed wattage
until the desired level is reached.)

https://lifehacker.com/5974788/famil...-cooking-a-joy

That was true of the first generation of Microwaves, but the current
"inverter" driver units actually CAN throttle the power. Inverter
microwaves are much better for defrosting AND cooking.

We've had ours for about 2 years now - replacing our original that we
bought in about 1985.

BIG difference (but the old one would likely still be working by the
time this one dies)


Why is it called an invertor? I thought an invertor was a device to increase the voltage - like running 240V devices off a 12V car battery.

And why on earth would you not want to cook on full power? I've never had a reason to lower the power from the maximum of 800W. I want the meal as soon as possible!
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Old December 29th 18, 06:19 PM posted to alt.sci.physics,uk.d-i-y,alt.home.repair
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Default Slow microwave ovens

On 2018-12-29 10:43 a.m., William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:34:10 -0000, William Gothberg wrote:

On 2018-12-29 10:32 a.m., William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 14:56:26 -0000, Andrew Gabriel
wrote:

In article ,
*** Bill Gill writes:
On 12/29/2018 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW?* They
were invented decades ago.
Higher powered microwaves would require higher powered electric
outlets, probably 220VAC (in the USA).

Also it is questionable whether higher powered ovens would be
practical for use.* Getting warming times down to a couple of
seconds might not be a good idea.* More speed is not always better.

Most commercial microwave ovens are higher power - typically twice
that of a domestic oven (they often use a pair of magnetrons).
We have them in the office kitchen areas (I think they are 2kW).
One problem is that retail food products do not state cooking
times in commercial microwave ovens - we have warnings posted on
the ovens that they are much more powerful.

Is the average person not able to divide by two?

Also, not all food can
be heated faster - often heat conduction is still a critical part
of the process, and the ability of food to conduct heat limits
the power input some food products can absorb without burning
whilst other areas are still cold.

Then the oven needs to have a more even waveform.

There's no problem with standard socket outlets in most countries.
In Europe and many other countries outside America, standard sockets
are designed to provide 3kW or 3.5kW (depending on country).
Many domestic microwaves in Europe are combination ovens with
convection, fan, and infra-red (grill) heating too, and often
run at 2.5kW when using combination heating (with a 1kW magnetron).
In a domestic environment, combination heating is generally more
useful than simply a more powerful microwave.

Not when I want to heat something in 2 minutes, conventional heating
won't even get going in that time.


is that what your wife said


I'm not stupid enough to marry.


yes you are
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Old December 29th 18, 06:21 PM posted to alt.sci.physics,uk.d-i-y,alt.home.repair
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Default Slow microwave ovens

On 2018-12-29 10:43 a.m., William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:29:50 -0000, William Gothberg wrote:

On 2018-12-29 10:26 a.m., William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 14:46:52 -0000, Andy Bennet wrote:

On 29/12/2018 13:43, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW?* They
were invented decades ago.

High power microwaves (1MW) are used in industry in for example ore
extraction/rock pulverizing.
1MW into a cup of water is not pretty, explodes the water contents and
breaks the cup.

I don't need a MW, but the usual 600W to 900W in domestic ovens is
pitiful.* What's wrong with 2kW?


too expensive


You can get a 700W microwave for 30.* Surely 2kW would be less than
triple that, so under 90.


and then re wire the house and when you use it ,
you can watch the hydro disk spin like a top
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Old December 29th 18, 06:21 PM posted to alt.sci.physics,uk.d-i-y,alt.home.repair
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Default Slow microwave ovens

"William Gothberg" wrote:

Anyway, I've never used a microwave on anything other than full power - even when defrosting, which for some reason people think you have to select "defrost". Why? It just takes longer. I can defrost food much faster on full power.


The idea is not to cook the food as its defrosting. Full power is fine if you
want the end item hot. It's not good if you want something room tempurature or
slightly cooler to use as a part of preparation of something else.


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Old December 29th 18, 06:25 PM posted to alt.home.repair,uk.d-i-y,alt.sci.physics,alt.electronics
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Default Slow microwave ovens

"William Gothberg" wrote:

I thought the USA had 240V sockets in rooms where they're likely to be needed, like the kitchen?


In the US 240v sockets are typically found in the kitchen for use by an electric
range, or in a dedicated laundry room for use by an electric dryer. Sometimes
they can be found in a garage. The interior outlets are typicaly located behind
the appliance - in effect dedicated for that appliance and not intended for
general use.
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Old December 29th 18, 06:27 PM posted to alt.home.repair,uk.d-i-y,alt.electronics,alt.sci.physics
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Default Slow microwave ovens

"William Gothberg" wrote:

Why is it called an invertor?


Typical microwaves use fixed AC power to drive the magnetron. Inverter driven
magnetrons use DC power, which can be variable.
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Old December 29th 18, 06:44 PM posted to alt.sci.physics,uk.d-i-y,alt.home.repair
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Default Slow microwave ovens

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 18:21:45 -0000, Arthur Conan Doyle wrote:

"William Gothberg" wrote:

Anyway, I've never used a microwave on anything other than full power - even when defrosting, which for some reason people think you have to select "defrost". Why? It just takes longer. I can defrost food much faster on full power.


The idea is not to cook the food as its defrosting. Full power is fine if you
want the end item hot. It's not good if you want something room tempurature or
slightly cooler to use as a part of preparation of something else.


Then I just use less cooking time. Full power will defrost to room temperature much faster than that pointless defrost mode. And if you're about to say it won't be even, so what? If it's for part of preparation of something else, it has plenty time to even out.
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Old December 29th 18, 06:45 PM posted to alt.home.repair,uk.d-i-y,alt.sci.physics,alt.electronics
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Default Slow microwave ovens

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 18:25:05 -0000, Arthur Conan Doyle wrote:

"William Gothberg" wrote:

I thought the USA had 240V sockets in rooms where they're likely to be needed, like the kitchen?


In the US 240v sockets are typically found in the kitchen for use by an electric
range, or in a dedicated laundry room for use by an electric dryer. Sometimes
they can be found in a garage. The interior outlets are typicaly located behind
the appliance - in effect dedicated for that appliance and not intended for
general use.


I'd find that severely limiting. 2kW hoover, 2kW kettle, breadmaker, toaster, etc, etc.
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Old December 29th 18, 06:45 PM posted to alt.sci.physics,uk.d-i-y,alt.home.repair
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Default Slow microwave ovens

On 12/29/2018 06:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW? They
were invented decades ago.


I worked for a company around 1970 that developed a few high power
microwaves that were placed in area restaurants. The idea, now
completely familiar, was the restaurant could prepare quantities of
food, freeze them, and thaw on demand. Other companies had similar
industrial ovens.

The core business of the company was industrial plastics preheaters
which functioned at around 100 MHz rather than microwave frequencies.
They completely missed the consumer microwave market that was to grow in
the later '70s.

We always had a couple of the smaller preheaters hanging around
engineering. They did wonders for stale donuts. Even the factory workers
in the molding plants caught on. 'I bet if that thing can heat a
phenolic biscuit to 300 degrees it would work on my sandwich.' We didn't
explicitly mention it when installing new equipment other than vague
cautions about not putting aluminum foil in the cavity. The larger
models were 15 KW and could generate some Tesla quality fireworks.

As the various RF technologies like heat sealers made it to the
workplace a whole folklore grew up. Working around them could either
make you sterile or incredibly fertile, take your pick.

The technology has been around for over 50 years. What you find at Tesco
is what sells.


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