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Old December 29th 18, 05:35 PM posted to alt.sci.physics,uk.d-i-y,alt.home.repair
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Default Slow microwave ovens

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:15:05 -0000, Bill Wright wrote:

On 29/12/2018 16:27, William Gothberg wrote:

It can take 5 minutes to warm something from frozen to eating
temperature. I see no reason that couldn't be made into 2 minutes.


Conduction


Which would be way faster if the water content the microwaves were hitting was heated hotter. Plus, make the microwave waveform more even, and you would need less conduction.

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Old December 29th 18, 05:42 PM posted to alt.sci.physics,uk.d-i-y,alt.home.repair
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Default Slow microwave ovens

I was just asking WHY. And people have already said that commercial ones are 2kW, so it's entirely possible.

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:19:48 -0000, ..shadow, me & my wrote:

So Mr Mouth when will you have this product on the market and how
much will it cost??

"William Gothberg" wrote in message
news ::
: It can take 5 minutes to warm something from frozen to eating temperature.
I see no reason that couldn't be made into 2 minutes.


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Old December 29th 18, 05:43 PM posted to alt.sci.physics,uk.d-i-y,alt.home.repair
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Default Slow microwave ovens

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:29:50 -0000, William Gothberg wrote:

On 2018-12-29 10:26 a.m., William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 14:46:52 -0000, Andy Bennet wrote:

On 29/12/2018 13:43, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW? They
were invented decades ago.

High power microwaves (1MW) are used in industry in for example ore
extraction/rock pulverizing.
1MW into a cup of water is not pretty, explodes the water contents and
breaks the cup.


I don't need a MW, but the usual 600W to 900W in domestic ovens is
pitiful. What's wrong with 2kW?


too expensive


You can get a 700W microwave for 30. Surely 2kW would be less than triple that, so under 90.
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Old December 29th 18, 05:43 PM posted to alt.sci.physics,uk.d-i-y,alt.home.repair
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Default Slow microwave ovens

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:34:10 -0000, William Gothberg wrote:

On 2018-12-29 10:32 a.m., William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 14:56:26 -0000, Andrew Gabriel
wrote:

In article ,
Bill Gill writes:
On 12/29/2018 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW? They
were invented decades ago.
Higher powered microwaves would require higher powered electric
outlets, probably 220VAC (in the USA).

Also it is questionable whether higher powered ovens would be
practical for use. Getting warming times down to a couple of
seconds might not be a good idea. More speed is not always better.

Most commercial microwave ovens are higher power - typically twice
that of a domestic oven (they often use a pair of magnetrons).
We have them in the office kitchen areas (I think they are 2kW).
One problem is that retail food products do not state cooking
times in commercial microwave ovens - we have warnings posted on
the ovens that they are much more powerful.


Is the average person not able to divide by two?

Also, not all food can
be heated faster - often heat conduction is still a critical part
of the process, and the ability of food to conduct heat limits
the power input some food products can absorb without burning
whilst other areas are still cold.


Then the oven needs to have a more even waveform.

There's no problem with standard socket outlets in most countries.
In Europe and many other countries outside America, standard sockets
are designed to provide 3kW or 3.5kW (depending on country).
Many domestic microwaves in Europe are combination ovens with
convection, fan, and infra-red (grill) heating too, and often
run at 2.5kW when using combination heating (with a 1kW magnetron).
In a domestic environment, combination heating is generally more
useful than simply a more powerful microwave.


Not when I want to heat something in 2 minutes, conventional heating
won't even get going in that time.


is that what your wife said


I'm not stupid enough to marry.
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Old December 29th 18, 05:47 PM posted to alt.sci.physics,uk.d-i-y,alt.home.repair
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Default Slow microwave ovens

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:34:22 -0000, Arthur Conan Doyle wrote:

"William Gothberg" wrote:

I don't need a MW, but the usual 600W to 900W in domestic ovens is pitiful. What's wrong with 2kW?


There are higher rating consumer units, but you have to look for them. I had a
1.2kw range hood type that worked much better than the 900w types. I think
commerical units (i.e. convenience store) can be found that are 1.8kw.

That said, what I find annoying is that the power control for every consumer
microwave I've seen is duty cycle based. That is, so many seconds of full power
followed by so many seconds of no power.

Some foods and defrosting would work much better if the actual power level could
be adjusted. Panasonic claims to make an inverter based design, but I'm not
convinced they actually adjust the outpout power.


I'm unsure how magnetrons work, but what's the big deal with running them at half power? Do they have to be on full power, and also can't be cycled more quickly?

Anyway, I've never used a microwave on anything other than full power - even when defrosting, which for some reason people think you have to select "defrost". Why? It just takes longer. I can defrost food much faster on full power.

Another weird thing my current (Hyundai 800W) microwave does is to switch off the heating completely for the last 15 seconds but continue to run the fan, light, and turntable (if you've selected at least 4 minutes time). So er like why not just remove the food 15 seconds earlier? Which I often do. Funnily enough nothing ever exploded.


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Old December 29th 18, 06:00 PM posted to alt.sci.physics,uk.d-i-y,alt.home.repair
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Default Slow microwave ovens

On 12/29/2018 11:29 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
On 2018-12-29 10:26 a.m., William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 14:46:52 -0000, Andy Bennet wrote:

On 29/12/2018 13:43, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW?* They
were invented decades ago.

High power microwaves (1MW) are used in industry in for example ore
extraction/rock pulverizing.
1MW into a cup of water is not pretty, explodes the water contents and
breaks the cup.


I don't need a MW, but the usual 600W to 900W in domestic ovens is
pitiful.* What's wrong with 2kW?


too expensive

1200 watt consumer microwaves are widely available. Check your
Walmart or whatever you have.

Bill
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Old December 29th 18, 06:05 PM posted to alt.sci.physics,uk.d-i-y,alt.home.repair
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Default Slow microwave ovens

William Gothberg wrote

Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW?


We do.

They were invented decades ago.

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Old December 29th 18, 06:06 PM posted to alt.home.repair,uk.d-i-y,alt.sci.physics,alt.electronics
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Default Slow microwave ovens

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:57:35 -0000, Bill Gill wrote:

On 12/29/2018 11:34 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 16:56:35 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 11:27:53 AM UTC-5, William Gothberg
wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 14:23:37 -0000, Bill Gill wrote:

On 12/29/2018 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW? They
were invented decades ago.
Higher powered microwaves would require higher powered electric
outlets, probably 220VAC (in the USA).

Not a problem in Europe where everything is 240V. Another reason you
ought to stop that low voltage crap! Do you seriously have to hard
wire all your washing machines, dishwashers, tumble dryers, etc,
etc? And what on earth do you do with hoovers?

No. Of those only a dishwasher is hardwired, typically. The rest are
plug
and cord, 240V in the case of electric dryers. Works for me.


So you do have sockets where you can plug in 240V 3kW devices, just like
in the UK. So no problem with a more powerful microwave then.

If you don't mind going to the garage/laundry room/etc. to use your
microwave.


In the UK we don't have that problem, my kitchen is full of 13A 240V sockets, just like every other room, it's what I plug my kettle, dishwasher, washing machine, bread maker, etc, etc into. All of which would be utterly useless on a 120V circuit. I thought the USA had 240V sockets in rooms where they're likely to be needed, like the kitchen? And where do you plug in a 2kW hoover? I plug mine in any room I'm hoovering.
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Old December 29th 18, 06:06 PM posted to alt.sci.physics,uk.d-i-y,alt.home.repair
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Default Slow microwave ovens

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 18:00:47 -0000, Bill Gill wrote:

On 12/29/2018 11:29 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
On 2018-12-29 10:26 a.m., William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 14:46:52 -0000, Andy Bennet wrote:

On 29/12/2018 13:43, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW? They
were invented decades ago.

High power microwaves (1MW) are used in industry in for example ore
extraction/rock pulverizing.
1MW into a cup of water is not pretty, explodes the water contents and
breaks the cup.

I don't need a MW, but the usual 600W to 900W in domestic ovens is
pitiful. What's wrong with 2kW?


too expensive

1200 watt consumer microwaves are widely available. Check your
Walmart or whatever you have.


1200W isn't much more than the 900W most are.
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Old December 29th 18, 06:10 PM posted to alt.home.repair,uk.d-i-y,alt.electronics,alt.sci.physics
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Default Slow microwave ovens

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 14:37:48 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 9:23:42 AM UTC-5, Bill Gill wrote:
On 12/29/2018 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW? They
were invented decades ago.

Higher powered microwaves would require higher powered electric
outlets, probably 220VAC (in the USA).

Also it is questionable whether higher powered ovens would be
practical for use. Getting warming times down to a couple of
seconds might not be a good idea. More speed is not always better.

Bill


+1

That about covers it. Not sure how useful more power would be. For example,
last night I was thawing out a tomato sauce in a quart plastic container.
The Panasonic has a defrost mode that uses about 30% power and cycles that.
Even so, after a couple mins you have to check, because the bottom gets
hotter and the plastic can soften or melt. Other things tend to heat unevenly
as well, eg you can have one area starting to spatter, while the other is
lower temp. If you had more power, those issues just become worse.


Only with a small number of things, where you'd just select half power. For example I often put in a large bowl of pasta or veg full of cold water, not covered. That water would easily handle 2kW. ONly packaged food in cheap plastic containers is a problem, and those will already melt in my 800W microwave. I always empty them into a real bowl first.

And for sure the fact that receptacles are 15 or 20 amps limits the practical
upside as well.


13A 240V in the UK, no problem to get 3kW. The USA has those too.

If people had a MW and it trips the breaker when they
use another small appliance, they wouldn't be very happy.


My socket circuit is 30A. More modern houses are 32A. Larger houses have two 32A circuits. At 240V, so enough for about 7kW.


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