What mostly makes a small simple engine (such as the Honda GC 160 that runs
my pressure washer or the Honda engine that runs my lawnmower) "wheeze"
fast & slow, fast & slow, fast & slow while idling under no load?

I know it's always going to be the five things:
1. Gas
2. Air
---
3. Spark
---
4. Compression
5. Timing

Where compression and timing aren't likely to be changing on the fly, and
where spark "can" but also isn't likely to be uneven (given a reasonably
new and non-fouled plug) so that leaves gas and air.

I pulled the air filter in both engines, both of which I haven't used in
months, and they were both clean. I inspected the choke mechanism in both
engines (both of which have a fixed throttle below that) and it was clean,
even though I leave my gasoline in the tank full time all the time.

In the lawnmower, I just burned off the months' old gas (yes, I know most
of you do the "stabilizer" or drain over the winter task) and in the
sprayer, I dumped the years'old gas into a jar to use for cleaning label
glue off of bottles.

I assume the stoiciometric ratio is the problem, probably due to varnish,
I'm guessing, in the carb - but why the wheezing?

To be clear, I'm not asking about an engine that won't run, nor an engine
that isn't running at the right speed, but I'm asking about an engine whose
RPM goes from slow to normal to slow to normal to slow to normal in a never
ending no-load cycle.

Under load, the engines both work fine.

I should note this is a California set of engines, so there are no set
screws for the idle speed.

To summarize simply, it can't be a clogged orifice (I don't think) because
that wouldn't make the engines wheeze fast and slow and fast and slow
(would it? if so, how?).

If you need it, I can snap an audio or video but I hope that my
characterization of an idle speed that goes in and out is enough for you to
provide helpful advice (and not just advice to throw the gas away as even
if that is the cause - there has to be a physical reason for that to be the
cause).

I'm asking about the physical reason for the idle speed varying cyclically.

On 02/23/2018 12:43 PM, ultred ragnusen wrote:
What mostly makes a small simple engine (such as the Honda GC 160 that runs
my pressure washer or the Honda engine that runs my lawnmower) "wheeze"
fast & slow, fast & slow, fast & slow while idling under no load?

I know it's always going to be the five things:
1. Gas
2. Air
---
3. Spark
---
4. Compression
5. Timing

Where compression and timing aren't likely to be changing on the fly, and
where spark "can" but also isn't likely to be uneven (given a reasonably
new and non-fouled plug) so that leaves gas and air.

I pulled the air filter in both engines, both of which I haven't used in
months, and they were both clean. I inspected the choke mechanism in both
engines (both of which have a fixed throttle below that) and it was clean,
even though I leave my gasoline in the tank full time all the time.

In the lawnmower, I just burned off the months' old gas (yes, I know most
of you do the "stabilizer" or drain over the winter task) and in the
sprayer, I dumped the years'old gas into a jar to use for cleaning label
glue off of bottles.

I assume the stoiciometric ratio is the problem, probably due to varnish,
I'm guessing, in the carb - but why the wheezing?

To be clear, I'm not asking about an engine that won't run, nor an engine
that isn't running at the right speed, but I'm asking about an engine whose
RPM goes from slow to normal to slow to normal to slow to normal in a never
ending no-load cycle.

Under load, the engines both work fine.

I should note this is a California set of engines, so there are no set
screws for the idle speed.

To summarize simply, it can't be a clogged orifice (I don't think) because
that wouldn't make the engines wheeze fast and slow and fast and slow
(would it? if so, how?).

If you need it, I can snap an audio or video but I hope that my
characterization of an idle speed that goes in and out is enough for you to
provide helpful advice (and not just advice to throw the gas away as even
if that is the cause - there has to be a physical reason for that to be the
cause).

I'm asking about the physical reason for the idle speed varying cyclically.

Empty out the old gas, put in fresh ethanol-free gas with some Sea Foam. Run it for 10 minutes, shut it off and let it sit over night. See how it runs in the morning.Â* .

Joe wrote:

Empty out the old gas, put in fresh ethanol-free gas with some Sea Foam.
Run it for 10 minutes, shut it off and let it sit over night.
See how it runs in the morning.

Thanks for that advice, which indicates that you're suggesting that the
wheezing is caused by clogged passageways, venturi's, and orifices, since
there are no injectors in such small engines.

Still, if it were clogged, then the stoichiometric ratio would be off from
14.5:7, but why the wheezing?

Why would a clogged passageway cause a speeding up and slowing down of the
engine, particularly engines that have a fixed throttle plate?

On 2/23/2018 11:43 AM, ultred ragnusen wrote:
What mostly makes a small simple engine (such as the Honda GC 160 that runs
my pressure washer or the Honda engine that runs my lawnmower) "wheeze"
fast & slow, fast & slow, fast & slow while idling under no load?

Â* snipperoo

I'm asking about the physical reason for the idle speed varying cyclically.

Â* It's called surging , and it's caused most often by clogged fuel
passages in the idle circuit or an improperly adjusted idle mixture
screw . But mostly the former . .

--
Snag
Ain't no dollar sign on
peace of mind - Zac Brown

Empty out the old gas, put in fresh ethanol-free gas with some Sea Foam.
Run it for 10 minutes, shut it off and let it sit over night.
See how it runs in the morning.* .


+ 1

The 10 hp Honda, on my generator acted-up once -
after about 6 months of inactivity. I didn't need any
extra additives - but a good test run with fresh gas
cleaned it up. I test it every 3 or 4 months now and
always use stabilizer.
John T.

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 09:43:12 -0800, ultred ragnusen
wrote:

I should note this is a California set of engines, so there are no set
screws for the idle speed.

You guys have "spark arrestors" on engines. I have read they need to
be removed an cleaned. Try that? Something about carbon build-up in
the arrestor. Maybe the engine is not exhausting burnt gases?

Surging engines often is because of improper air / fuel mixture.

wrote:

The 10 hp Honda, on my generator acted-up once -
after about 6 months of inactivity. I didn't need any
extra additives - but a good test run with fresh gas
cleaned it up. I test it every 3 or 4 months now and
always use stabilizer.

For decades, I've been leaving the gas in engines, but these motors are
wheezing, fast and slow, and fast and slow, so I'm just asking to figure it
out.

As for "stabilizer", it seems like a worthless endeavor since it costs
almnost nothing for a gallon of gas versus what it must cost to buy and
stock stabilizer. Why bother? If stabilizing was my issue, I'd just dump
out the gas and use it for cleaning label goop off of kitchen jars.

I'm not against stabilizer - I just don't see the value since it has to
cost an appreciable portion of the gallon of gas price.

Is the reason for the stabilizer because you want LIQUID in the engine's
gas tank?

Otherwise, why not just dump the gas out to use as a cleaner?
(I guess a key question is how much does a gallon's worth of stabilizer
cost with respect to the $4 it costs for a gallon of gasoline?)

Terry Coombs wrote:

* It's called surging , and it's caused most often by clogged fuel
passages in the idle circuit or an improperly adjusted idle mixture
screw . But mostly the former . .

Thanks for that word because it's apropos that the engine is idling and
surging periodically.

I don't think either of these California engines have an idle mixture
screw, as the engines are only about three or four years old, so it must be
the clogged passageways of the fuel passages.

I guess, in that case, Seafoam may be the trick as someone suggested.
Do you concur?

Or would you just run a few tanks of fuel?

Oren wrote:

Surging engines often is because of improper air / fuel mixture.

Someone said it is likely surging due to clogged fuel passageways, which
makes sense because the air passageways aren't clogged.

If it's the clogged fuel passageways, it's likely because I don't start
these engines for months (sometimes years) at a time, where I leave the
fuel in them (sometimes I pour it out before use if it's really old).

But I wonder why it surges due to clogged fuel passageways?

If the passageway were VARIABLE in diameter, I could see it surging, but
it's a fixed diameter. So even with a clog, it's still a fixed diameter.

Anyway, once I have the word "surging", I can start Googling for Surging
Honda GCV 160, where I see it's a common problem but nobody seems to know
why.

http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/showth...ng-Honda-GC160
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...Number=1867275
http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/showth...CV-160-surging
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/108-sm...g-problem.html
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...1888530&page=2
etc.

It seems most people clean the carb, where there's no harm in that, but
nobody knows why it surges.

They say the orifices are small but that in and of itself can't cause
surging.

Something has to be VARIABLE for the surging to occur.

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 17:06:38 -0800, ultred ragnusen
wrote:

Something has to be VARIABLE for the surging to occur.

Right, the engine is suffering starvation of fuel and oxygen (wrong
mixture). Seems you have spark so only two things allow surging;
starvation of fuel and/or oxygen.

Anyway, once I have the word "surging", I can start Googling for Surging
Honda GCV 160, where I see it's a common problem but nobody seems to know
why.



I have always used the term " hunting " ...

the periodic oscillating of a rotating electromechanical system about
a mean space position, as in a synchronous motor.

John T.

On 2/23/2018 6:55 PM, ultred ragnusen wrote:
Terry Coombs wrote:

Â* It's called surging , and it's caused most often by clogged fuel
passages in the idle circuit or an improperly adjusted idle mixture
screw . But mostly the former . .
Thanks for that word because it's apropos that the engine is idling and
surging periodically.

I don't think either of these California engines have an idle mixture
screw, as the engines are only about three or four years old, so it must be
the clogged passageways of the fuel passages.

I guess, in that case, Seafoam may be the trick as someone suggested.
Do you concur?

Or would you just run a few tanks of fuel?

Â* I'd disassemble the carb and clean it *thoroughly* . The problem is ,
for Seafoam to do any good it must reach the goop that's causing the
problems . If the passage is plugged ... the Seafoam can't reach the
clog . Ultrasonic cleaners sometimes work . Fine stiff wire (along with
cleaning solvent) *always* works .

--
Snag
Ain't no dollar sign on
peace of mind - Zac Brown

On 2/23/2018 7:06 PM, ultred ragnusen wrote:
Oren wrote:

Surging engines often is because of improper air / fuel mixture.
Someone said it is likely surging due to clogged fuel passageways, which
makes sense because the air passageways aren't clogged.

If it's the clogged fuel passageways, it's likely because I don't start
these engines for months (sometimes years) at a time, where I leave the
fuel in them (sometimes I pour it out before use if it's really old).

But I wonder why it surges due to clogged fuel passageways?
Â* snipped

Something has to be VARIABLE for the surging to occur.

Â* That's the action of the governer . As the motor dies due to fuel
starvation the governer opens the throttle to bring it back up to speed
.. The throttle must open far enough to run on the main jet , which
causes the motor to overspeed , causing the governer to close the
throttle to slow it down - right back into the fuel starvation zone
which causes the governer to open the throttle ... over and over and
over . As soon as you load it enough to run on the main jet it'll smooth
right out .

--
Snag
Ain't no dollar sign on
peace of mind - Zac Brown

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 13:18:04 -0600, Terry Coombs
wrote:

On 2/23/2018 11:43 AM, ultred ragnusen wrote:
What mostly makes a small simple engine (such as the Honda GC 160 that runs
my pressure washer or the Honda engine that runs my lawnmower) "wheeze"
fast & slow, fast & slow, fast & slow while idling under no load?

* snipperoo

I'm asking about the physical reason for the idle speed varying cyclically.

* It's called surging , and it's caused most often by clogged fuel
passages in the idle circuit or an improperly adjusted idle mixture
screw . But mostly the former . .


Almost definitely a lean surge - caused by either varnish or
"greenies" in the jets.

Get some SeaFoam. Drain the gas. Refill with fresh (preferably ethanol
free, but I realize that is a problem for some) and SeaFoam according
to the instructions on the can. start and run on part choke for about
5 minutes. Let sit for a couple hours and restart. If still surging
run on part choke for another few minutes and let it sit again. Then
run the heck out of it to run the tank of fuel; though it and see what
happens. This will fix varnish issues virtually every time - and will
often solve "greenies" as well. Bad "greenies" will require
dissassembling the carb and poking and blowing the jets clear. A bit
of Seafoam in each tank will prevent greenies or varnish. Do not store
long-term with ethanol gas - even with Stabil (Or Sea-Foam) in the gas

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 23 Feb 2018 16:53:40 -0800, ultred ragnusen
wrote:

wrote:

The 10 hp Honda, on my generator acted-up once -
after about 6 months of inactivity. I didn't need any
extra additives - but a good test run with fresh gas
cleaned it up. I test it every 3 or 4 months now and
always use stabilizer.

For decades, I've been leaving the gas in engines, but these motors are
wheezing, fast and slow, and fast and slow, so I'm just asking to figure it
out.

As for "stabilizer", it seems like a worthless endeavor since it costs
almnost nothing for a gallon of gas versus what it must cost to buy and
stock stabilizer. Why bother? If stabilizing was my issue, I'd just dump
out the gas and use it for cleaning label goop off of kitchen jars.

I've run out of kitchen jars to clean the label goop off of. We had
10,000 of them but my cousins car broke down in our back yard, and he
had 15 gallons of gas in his tank.

I'm not against stabilizer - I just don't see the value since it has to
cost an appreciable portion of the gallon of gas price.

Is the reason for the stabilizer because you want LIQUID in the engine's
gas tank?

Otherwise, why not just dump the gas out to use as a cleaner?

Where do you put the gas when you dump it I poured some in a desolate
corner of the yard and 2 years later, no grass.

(I guess a key question is how much does a gallon's worth of stabilizer
cost with respect to the $4 it costs for a gallon of gasoline?)

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 23 Feb 2018 16:55:36 -0800, ultred ragnusen
wrote:

Terry Coombs wrote:

* It's called surging , and it's caused most often by clogged fuel
passages in the idle circuit or an improperly adjusted idle mixture
screw . But mostly the former . .

Thanks for that word because it's apropos that the engine is idling and
surging periodically.

I don't think either of these California engines have an idle mixture
screw, as the engines are only about three or four years old, so it must be
the clogged passageways of the fuel passages.

And don't you think Sta-Bil might have prevented that?

That's why people use it.

I guess, in that case, Seafoam may be the trick as someone suggested.
Do you concur?

Or would you just run a few tanks of fuel?

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 23 Feb 2018 20:22:55 -0600, Terry Coombs
wrote:

On 2/23/2018 7:06 PM, ultred ragnusen wrote:
Oren wrote:

Surging engines often is because of improper air / fuel mixture.
Someone said it is likely surging due to clogged fuel passageways, which
makes sense because the air passageways aren't clogged.

If it's the clogged fuel passageways, it's likely because I don't start
these engines for months (sometimes years) at a time, where I leave the
fuel in them (sometimes I pour it out before use if it's really old).

But I wonder why it surges due to clogged fuel passageways?
* snipped

Something has to be VARIABLE for the surging to occur.

* That's the action of the governer . As the motor dies due to fuel
starvation the governer opens the throttle to bring it back up to speed
. The throttle must open far enough to run on the main jet , which
causes the motor to overspeed , causing the governer to close the
throttle to slow it down - right back into the fuel starvation zone
which causes the governer to open the throttle ... over and over and
over . As soon as you load it enough to run on the main jet it'll smooth
right out .

That's a great answer. I knew it related to the governor, but I didn't
know details. Do they still use a plastic leaf that catches the wind
that comes somehow from the spinning crankshaft? The leaf pulls in one
direction and a spring pulls it back and opens the throttle farther when
the engine slows and the wind is less.

On 2/23/2018 9:08 PM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 23 Feb 2018 20:22:55 -0600, Terry Coombs
wrote:

On 2/23/2018 7:06 PM, ultred ragnusen wrote:
Oren wrote:

Surging engines often is because of improper air / fuel mixture.
Someone said it is likely surging due to clogged fuel passageways, which
makes sense because the air passageways aren't clogged.

If it's the clogged fuel passageways, it's likely because I don't start
these engines for months (sometimes years) at a time, where I leave the
fuel in them (sometimes I pour it out before use if it's really old).

But I wonder why it surges due to clogged fuel passageways?
Â* snipped
Something has to be VARIABLE for the surging to occur.
Â* That's the action of the governer . As the motor dies due to fuel
starvation the governer opens the throttle to bring it back up to speed
. The throttle must open far enough to run on the main jet , which
causes the motor to overspeed , causing the governer to close the
throttle to slow it down - right back into the fuel starvation zone
which causes the governer to open the throttle ... over and over and
over . As soon as you load it enough to run on the main jet it'll smooth
right out .
That's a great answer. I knew it related to the governor, but I didn't
know details. Do they still use a plastic leaf that catches the wind
that comes somehow from the spinning crankshaft? The leaf pulls in one
direction and a spring pulls it back and opens the throttle farther when
the engine slows and the wind is less.

Â* Yeah , some of the small engines do it that way . Those that need
more precise control use an internal flyweight type gov .

--
Snag
Ain't no dollar sign on
peace of mind - Zac Brown

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 2:04:26 PM UTC-5, ultred ragnusen wrote:
Joe wrote:

Empty out the old gas, put in fresh ethanol-free gas with some Sea Foam..
Run it for 10 minutes, shut it off and let it sit over night.
See how it runs in the morning.

Thanks for that advice, which indicates that you're suggesting that the
wheezing is caused by clogged passageways, venturi's, and orifices, since
there are no injectors in such small engines.

Still, if it were clogged, then the stoichiometric ratio would be off from
14.5:7, but why the wheezing?

Why would a clogged passageway cause a speeding up and slowing down of the
engine, particularly engines that have a fixed throttle plate?

Look at it this way. The engine is designed to idle at x rpm. It tries to get there, but with a partially clogged fuel path, it can't get enough fuel. So it starts to struggle and slow down a bit. At the lower rpm it has sufficient fuel, so it runs better again and starts to speed up. That might account for the hunting. In any case, I would disassemble the carb and clean it, blow it out. You can get a rebuild kit on ebay for $10 that has gaskets, welch plugs, needle valve, etc. For a little more you can get a new Chinese carb.

On 2/23/2018 12:43 PM, ultred ragnusen wrote:
What mostly makes a small simple engine (such as the Honda GC 160 that runs
my pressure washer or the Honda engine that runs my lawnmower) "wheeze"
fast & slow, fast & slow, fast & slow while idling under no load?

I know it's always going to be the five things:
1. Gas
2. Air
---
3. Spark
---
4. Compression
5. Timing

Where compression and timing aren't likely to be changing on the fly, and
where spark "can" but also isn't likely to be uneven (given a reasonably
new and non-fouled plug) so that leaves gas and air.

I pulled the air filter in both engines, both of which I haven't used in
months, and they were both clean. I inspected the choke mechanism in both
engines (both of which have a fixed throttle below that) and it was clean,
even though I leave my gasoline in the tank full time all the time.

In the lawnmower, I just burned off the months' old gas (yes, I know most
of you do the "stabilizer" or drain over the winter task) and in the
sprayer, I dumped the years'old gas into a jar to use for cleaning label
glue off of bottles.

I assume the stoiciometric ratio is the problem, probably due to varnish,
I'm guessing, in the carb - but why the wheezing?

To be clear, I'm not asking about an engine that won't run, nor an engine
that isn't running at the right speed, but I'm asking about an engine whose
RPM goes from slow to normal to slow to normal to slow to normal in a never
ending no-load cycle.

Under load, the engines both work fine.

I should note this is a California set of engines, so there are no set
screws for the idle speed.

To summarize simply, it can't be a clogged orifice (I don't think) because
that wouldn't make the engines wheeze fast and slow and fast and slow
(would it? if so, how?).

If you need it, I can snap an audio or video but I hope that my
characterization of an idle speed that goes in and out is enough for you to
provide helpful advice (and not just advice to throw the gas away as even
if that is the cause - there has to be a physical reason for that to be the
cause).

I'm asking about the physical reason for the idle speed varying cyclically.


It's the diaphragm. Replace it.

In article ,
says...

Terry Coombs wrote:

* It's called surging , and it's caused most often by clogged fuel
passages in the idle circuit or an improperly adjusted idle mixture
screw . But mostly the former . .

Thanks for that word because it's apropos that the engine is idling and
surging periodically.

I don't think either of these California engines have an idle mixture
screw, as the engines are only about three or four years old, so it must be
the clogged passageways of the fuel passages.

I guess, in that case, Seafoam may be the trick as someone suggested.
Do you concur?

Or would you just run a few tanks of fuel?


I have a 5 kw generator and it did the surging while unloaded and around
500 to 1000 watts of load it would run fine. I drained out all the old
gas, cleaned the carborator some, and started using the ethanol free
gas. After running about 10 minutes it quit the surging and now idles
fine with no load.

I have started using the ethanol free gas in all the small engines.I do
add the Stable to the gas as an extra measure as it may be a few months
before I use some of them.

On 2/23/2018 9:52 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...
Terry Coombs wrote:

* It's called surging , and it's caused most often by clogged fuel
passages in the idle circuit or an improperly adjusted idle mixture
screw . But mostly the former . .
Thanks for that word because it's apropos that the engine is idling and
surging periodically.

I don't think either of these California engines have an idle mixture
screw, as the engines are only about three or four years old, so it must be
the clogged passageways of the fuel passages.

I guess, in that case, Seafoam may be the trick as someone suggested.
Do you concur?

Or would you just run a few tanks of fuel?

I have a 5 kw generator and it did the surging while unloaded and around
500 to 1000 watts of load it would run fine. I drained out all the old
gas, cleaned the carborator some, and started using the ethanol free
gas. After running about 10 minutes it quit the surging and now idles
fine with no load.

I have started using the ethanol free gas in all the small engines.I do
add the Stable to the gas as an extra measure as it may be a few months
before I use some of them.

* I buy "yard gas" 10 gallons at a time - non-ethanol only . Since I
never know how long it's going to be around I add Sta-Bil as soon as I
get home . I went thru the last 10 pretty quick , a month or so . Been
doing a lot of cuttin' - haulin' - splittin' firewood , plus pushing
dirt around with Rusty the Tractor .

--
Snag
Ain't no dollar sign on
peace of mind - Zac Brown

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 22:03:41 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 23 Feb 2018 16:55:36 -0800, ultred ragnusen
wrote:

Terry Coombs wrote:

* It's called surging , and it's caused most often by clogged fuel
passages in the idle circuit or an improperly adjusted idle mixture
screw . But mostly the former . .

Thanks for that word because it's apropos that the engine is idling and
surging periodically.

I don't think either of these California engines have an idle mixture
screw, as the engines are only about three or four years old, so it must be
the clogged passageways of the fuel passages.

And don't you think Sta-Bil might have prevented that?

That's why people use it.

I guess, in that case, Seafoam may be the trick as someone suggested.
Do you concur?

Or would you just run a few tanks of fuel?


Normal StaBil is not effective with ethanol.
There is a special version, but it is still not as effective as the
old stuff onpure gas. It is a simple oxidation inhibitor - I believe
it is BHT - the same stuff used to keep oily foods from going rancid.
butylated hydroxytoluene.
Either that or BHA - butylated hydroxyanisole.

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 22:08:20 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 23 Feb 2018 20:22:55 -0600, Terry Coombs
wrote:

On 2/23/2018 7:06 PM, ultred ragnusen wrote:
Oren wrote:

Surging engines often is because of improper air / fuel mixture.
Someone said it is likely surging due to clogged fuel passageways, which
makes sense because the air passageways aren't clogged.

If it's the clogged fuel passageways, it's likely because I don't start
these engines for months (sometimes years) at a time, where I leave the
fuel in them (sometimes I pour it out before use if it's really old).

But I wonder why it surges due to clogged fuel passageways?
* snipped

Something has to be VARIABLE for the surging to occur.

* That's the action of the governer . As the motor dies due to fuel
starvation the governer opens the throttle to bring it back up to speed
. The throttle must open far enough to run on the main jet , which
causes the motor to overspeed , causing the governer to close the
throttle to slow it down - right back into the fuel starvation zone
which causes the governer to open the throttle ... over and over and
over . As soon as you load it enough to run on the main jet it'll smooth
right out .

That's a great answer. I knew it related to the governor, but I didn't
know details. Do they still use a plastic leaf that catches the wind
that comes somehow from the spinning crankshaft? The leaf pulls in one
direction and a spring pulls it back and opens the throttle farther when
the engine slows and the wind is less.


Only the real cheap crap uses an air vane governor - most use
cetrifugal governor inside the crankcase.

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 22:50:01 -0500, Meanie wrote:

On 2/23/2018 12:43 PM, ultred ragnusen wrote:
What mostly makes a small simple engine (such as the Honda GC 160 that runs
my pressure washer or the Honda engine that runs my lawnmower) "wheeze"
fast & slow, fast & slow, fast & slow while idling under no load?

I know it's always going to be the five things:
1. Gas
2. Air
---
3. Spark
---
4. Compression
5. Timing

Where compression and timing aren't likely to be changing on the fly, and
where spark "can" but also isn't likely to be uneven (given a reasonably
new and non-fouled plug) so that leaves gas and air.

I pulled the air filter in both engines, both of which I haven't used in
months, and they were both clean. I inspected the choke mechanism in both
engines (both of which have a fixed throttle below that) and it was clean,
even though I leave my gasoline in the tank full time all the time.

In the lawnmower, I just burned off the months' old gas (yes, I know most
of you do the "stabilizer" or drain over the winter task) and in the
sprayer, I dumped the years'old gas into a jar to use for cleaning label
glue off of bottles.

I assume the stoiciometric ratio is the problem, probably due to varnish,
I'm guessing, in the carb - but why the wheezing?

To be clear, I'm not asking about an engine that won't run, nor an engine
that isn't running at the right speed, but I'm asking about an engine whose
RPM goes from slow to normal to slow to normal to slow to normal in a never
ending no-load cycle.

Under load, the engines both work fine.

I should note this is a California set of engines, so there are no set
screws for the idle speed.

To summarize simply, it can't be a clogged orifice (I don't think) because
that wouldn't make the engines wheeze fast and slow and fast and slow
(would it? if so, how?).

If you need it, I can snap an audio or video but I hope that my
characterization of an idle speed that goes in and out is enough for you to
provide helpful advice (and not just advice to throw the gas away as even
if that is the cause - there has to be a physical reason for that to be the
cause).

I'm asking about the physical reason for the idle speed varying cyclically.


It's the diaphragm. Replace it.
Except most small engine carbs don't use diaphragms.

An engine that surges even with the carb totally clean on ethanol gas
with generally run perfectly on clear gas. The ethanol leans out the
mixture.

This is totally disregarding the FACT that ethanol gas, because it
absorbs moisture, tends to corrode copper containing (can you say
BRASS" ) parts - the "greenies".

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 11:50:39 PM UTC-6, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 22:50:01 -0500, Meanie wrote:

On 2/23/2018 12:43 PM, ultred ragnusen wrote:
What mostly makes a small simple engine (such as the Honda GC 160 that runs
my pressure washer or the Honda engine that runs my lawnmower) "wheeze"
fast & slow, fast & slow, fast & slow while idling under no load?

I know it's always going to be the five things:
1. Gas
2. Air
---
3. Spark
---
4. Compression
5. Timing

Where compression and timing aren't likely to be changing on the fly, and
where spark "can" but also isn't likely to be uneven (given a reasonably
new and non-fouled plug) so that leaves gas and air.

I pulled the air filter in both engines, both of which I haven't used in
months, and they were both clean. I inspected the choke mechanism in both
engines (both of which have a fixed throttle below that) and it was clean,
even though I leave my gasoline in the tank full time all the time.

In the lawnmower, I just burned off the months' old gas (yes, I know most
of you do the "stabilizer" or drain over the winter task) and in the
sprayer, I dumped the years'old gas into a jar to use for cleaning label
glue off of bottles.

I assume the stoiciometric ratio is the problem, probably due to varnish,
I'm guessing, in the carb - but why the wheezing?

To be clear, I'm not asking about an engine that won't run, nor an engine
that isn't running at the right speed, but I'm asking about an engine whose
RPM goes from slow to normal to slow to normal to slow to normal in a never
ending no-load cycle.

Under load, the engines both work fine.

I should note this is a California set of engines, so there are no set
screws for the idle speed.

To summarize simply, it can't be a clogged orifice (I don't think) because
that wouldn't make the engines wheeze fast and slow and fast and slow
(would it? if so, how?).

If you need it, I can snap an audio or video but I hope that my
characterization of an idle speed that goes in and out is enough for you to
provide helpful advice (and not just advice to throw the gas away as even
if that is the cause - there has to be a physical reason for that to be the
cause).

I'm asking about the physical reason for the idle speed varying cyclically.


It's the diaphragm. Replace it.
Except most small engine carbs don't use diaphragms.

An engine that surges even with the carb totally clean on ethanol gas
with generally run perfectly on clear gas. The ethanol leans out the
mixture.

This is totally disregarding the FACT that ethanol gas, because it
absorbs moisture, tends to corrode copper containing (can you say
BRASS" ) parts - the "greenies".


There are Public Service Announcements running quite often on talk radio stations from the president of the Outdoor Power Equipment Institute admonishing listeners not to run their small gasoline powered equipment on fuel that contains ethanol. It's been several years since I fooled around with a recalcitrant lawnmower but I simply ordered a carburetor off Amazon for less than $20.00 and made the vile machine and me happy. I imagine I could have rebuilt the original carb but why go through the hassle and expense? ^_^

http://opei.org/

https://www.amazon.com/Carburetor-Te.../dp/B01LW89Z5Z

[8~{} Uncle Yard Monster

In article , says...
* I buy "yard gas" 10 gallons at a time - non-ethanol only . Since I
never know how long it's going to be around I add Sta-Bil as soon as I
get home . I went thru the last 10 pretty quick , a month or so . Been
doing a lot of cuttin' - haulin' - splittin' firewood , plus pushing
dirt around with Rusty the Tractor .

--



That is about what I do. I try to put the Stabil in the 2 5 gallon gas
tanks I usually fill up at a time with the ethanol free gas before I
leave the house. That should really mix it up as the gas goes in the
cans. I have 3 of the 5 gallon cans so when 2 of the get empty I fill
them up. Summer time is not too bad as I use about 2 or 3 gallons per
week. However I may go from November to March or so and not use any. I
do like to have atleast 10 or more gallons round for the small generator
incase the power goes out in the winter. It seldom does, but one never
knows.

Sofar all the small engines start up on the 'old gas'. Best starting
engine I have is the tiller. I usually just run it once or twice in the
spring or late winter to get a small garden ready. Then I let it run
all the way out of gas. For the last 10 years it will start on one or
at the most 2 pulls of the starting rope. That is with a fresh fill up
of the 4 month old gas.

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 09:43:12 -0800, ultred ragnusen
wrote:

What mostly makes a small simple engine (such as the Honda GC 160 that runs
my pressure washer or the Honda engine that runs my lawnmower) "wheeze"
fast & slow, fast & slow, fast & slow while idling under no load?


Had that problem with my John Deere X300. After a lot of google
research, I found a possible cause as "clogged air filter." I removed
mine, washed out the foam prefilter and tapped out the paper filter.
Reinstalled, and everything ran fine. Started surging again about a
month later, so I replaced the paper filter. Been fine ever since.

-dan z-


--
Someone who thinks logically provides
a nice contrast to the real world.
(Anonymous)

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 10:40:37 -0500, slate_leeper
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 09:43:12 -0800, ultred ragnusen
wrote:

What mostly makes a small simple engine (such as the Honda GC 160 that runs
my pressure washer or the Honda engine that runs my lawnmower) "wheeze"
fast & slow, fast & slow, fast & slow while idling under no load?


Had that problem with my John Deere X300. After a lot of google
research, I found a possible cause as "clogged air filter." I removed
mine, washed out the foam prefilter and tapped out the paper filter.
Reinstalled, and everything ran fine. Started surging again about a
month later, so I replaced the paper filter. Been fine ever since.

-dan z-

Good point and correct. It leads back to fuel OR oxygen starvation. In
your case the dirty filter restricted the air mixture.

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 19:49:59 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 10:40:37 -0500, slate_leeper
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 09:43:12 -0800, ultred ragnusen
wrote:

What mostly makes a small simple engine (such as the Honda GC 160 that runs
my pressure washer or the Honda engine that runs my lawnmower) "wheeze"
fast & slow, fast & slow, fast & slow while idling under no load?


Had that problem with my John Deere X300. After a lot of google
research, I found a possible cause as "clogged air filter." I removed
mine, washed out the foam prefilter and tapped out the paper filter.
Reinstalled, and everything ran fine. Started surging again about a
month later, so I replaced the paper filter. Been fine ever since.

-dan z-

Good point and correct. It leads back to fuel OR oxygen starvation. In
your case the dirty filter restricted the air mixture.
You get lean hunt and rich roll. With rich roll the muffler turns
black.
With lean hunt pulling on a bit of choke makes it better. Rich roll
gets worse. Generally the "period" of lean hunt is longer than the
"period" of rich roll - or put another way the lean cadence is slower.

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 19:49:59 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 10:40:37 -0500, slate_leeper
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 09:43:12 -0800, ultred ragnusen
wrote:

What mostly makes a small simple engine (such as the Honda GC 160 that runs
my pressure washer or the Honda engine that runs my lawnmower) "wheeze"
fast & slow, fast & slow, fast & slow while idling under no load?


Had that problem with my John Deere X300. After a lot of google
research, I found a possible cause as "clogged air filter." I removed
mine, washed out the foam prefilter and tapped out the paper filter.
Reinstalled, and everything ran fine. Started surging again about a
month later, so I replaced the paper filter. Been fine ever since.

-dan z-

Good point and correct. It leads back to fuel OR oxygen starvation. In
your case the dirty filter restricted the air mixture.

A bad spark plug did it on my lawn tractor. I guessed both the fuel
and air filters before settling on the plug. The next step was to
pack it up and take it to someone who knows something about engines.
;-)

On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 20:21:55 -0500, wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 19:49:59 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 10:40:37 -0500, slate_leeper
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 09:43:12 -0800, ultred ragnusen
wrote:

What mostly makes a small simple engine (such as the Honda GC 160 that runs
my pressure washer or the Honda engine that runs my lawnmower) "wheeze"
fast & slow, fast & slow, fast & slow while idling under no load?


Had that problem with my John Deere X300. After a lot of google
research, I found a possible cause as "clogged air filter." I removed
mine, washed out the foam prefilter and tapped out the paper filter.
Reinstalled, and everything ran fine. Started surging again about a
month later, so I replaced the paper filter. Been fine ever since.

-dan z-

Good point and correct. It leads back to fuel OR oxygen starvation. In
your case the dirty filter restricted the air mixture.

A bad spark plug did it on my lawn tractor. I guessed both the fuel
and air filters before settling on the plug. The next step was to
pack it up and take it to someone who knows something about engines.
;-)

Yep, a fouled plug can be a problem. Just need fuel, oxygen and spark
to get 'er runnin'.
--
"Dodgeball in Burkas" -- Greg Gutfeld

On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 11:22:20 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 20:21:55 -0500, wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 19:49:59 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 10:40:37 -0500, slate_leeper
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 09:43:12 -0800, ultred ragnusen
wrote:

What mostly makes a small simple engine (such as the Honda GC 160 that runs
my pressure washer or the Honda engine that runs my lawnmower) "wheeze"
fast & slow, fast & slow, fast & slow while idling under no load?


Had that problem with my John Deere X300. After a lot of google
research, I found a possible cause as "clogged air filter." I removed
mine, washed out the foam prefilter and tapped out the paper filter.
Reinstalled, and everything ran fine. Started surging again about a
month later, so I replaced the paper filter. Been fine ever since.

-dan z-

Good point and correct. It leads back to fuel OR oxygen starvation. In
your case the dirty filter restricted the air mixture.

A bad spark plug did it on my lawn tractor. I guessed both the fuel
and air filters before settling on the plug. The next step was to
pack it up and take it to someone who knows something about engines.
;-)

Yep, a fouled plug can be a problem. Just need fuel, oxygen and spark
to get 'er runnin'.
But "generally" if it starts OK but rolls at idle, the plug is not
the problem. A plug will - and again I say "generally" either cause
difficult starting or cutting out under load -VERY seldom an idle
surge, or hunt.

If allowed to run too long with a "rich roll" the plug will
eventually foul.

If run too long too lean under load a plug will "glaze" - but MUCH
less likely on unleaded fuel than it was with leaded gas -
particularly high sulpher leaded, which produced a yellow-green lead
sulphide glaze - also known as Galena - one of the earliest used
semi-conductors.

Used to see a lot of "4 transistor" Toyotas back in the day - - -