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Old February 23rd 18, 05:43 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Default What mostly makes a small engine "wheeze" fast & slow, fast & slow, fast & slow?

What mostly makes a small simple engine (such as the Honda GC 160 that runs
my pressure washer or the Honda engine that runs my lawnmower) "wheeze"
fast & slow, fast & slow, fast & slow while idling under no load?

I know it's always going to be the five things:
1. Gas
2. Air
---
3. Spark
---
4. Compression
5. Timing

Where compression and timing aren't likely to be changing on the fly, and
where spark "can" but also isn't likely to be uneven (given a reasonably
new and non-fouled plug) so that leaves gas and air.

I pulled the air filter in both engines, both of which I haven't used in
months, and they were both clean. I inspected the choke mechanism in both
engines (both of which have a fixed throttle below that) and it was clean,
even though I leave my gasoline in the tank full time all the time.

In the lawnmower, I just burned off the months' old gas (yes, I know most
of you do the "stabilizer" or drain over the winter task) and in the
sprayer, I dumped the years'old gas into a jar to use for cleaning label
glue off of bottles.

I assume the stoiciometric ratio is the problem, probably due to varnish,
I'm guessing, in the carb - but why the wheezing?

To be clear, I'm not asking about an engine that won't run, nor an engine
that isn't running at the right speed, but I'm asking about an engine whose
RPM goes from slow to normal to slow to normal to slow to normal in a never
ending no-load cycle.

Under load, the engines both work fine.

I should note this is a California set of engines, so there are no set
screws for the idle speed.

To summarize simply, it can't be a clogged orifice (I don't think) because
that wouldn't make the engines wheeze fast and slow and fast and slow
(would it? if so, how?).

If you need it, I can snap an audio or video but I hope that my
characterization of an idle speed that goes in and out is enough for you to
provide helpful advice (and not just advice to throw the gas away as even
if that is the cause - there has to be a physical reason for that to be the
cause).

I'm asking about the physical reason for the idle speed varying cyclically.

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Old February 23rd 18, 06:02 PM posted to alt.home.repair
Joe Joe is offline
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Default What mostly makes a small engine "wheeze" fast & slow, fast &slow, fast & slow?

On 02/23/2018 12:43 PM, ultred ragnusen wrote:
What mostly makes a small simple engine (such as the Honda GC 160 that runs
my pressure washer or the Honda engine that runs my lawnmower) "wheeze"
fast & slow, fast & slow, fast & slow while idling under no load?

I know it's always going to be the five things:
1. Gas
2. Air
---
3. Spark
---
4. Compression
5. Timing

Where compression and timing aren't likely to be changing on the fly, and
where spark "can" but also isn't likely to be uneven (given a reasonably
new and non-fouled plug) so that leaves gas and air.

I pulled the air filter in both engines, both of which I haven't used in
months, and they were both clean. I inspected the choke mechanism in both
engines (both of which have a fixed throttle below that) and it was clean,
even though I leave my gasoline in the tank full time all the time.

In the lawnmower, I just burned off the months' old gas (yes, I know most
of you do the "stabilizer" or drain over the winter task) and in the
sprayer, I dumped the years'old gas into a jar to use for cleaning label
glue off of bottles.

I assume the stoiciometric ratio is the problem, probably due to varnish,
I'm guessing, in the carb - but why the wheezing?

To be clear, I'm not asking about an engine that won't run, nor an engine
that isn't running at the right speed, but I'm asking about an engine whose
RPM goes from slow to normal to slow to normal to slow to normal in a never
ending no-load cycle.

Under load, the engines both work fine.

I should note this is a California set of engines, so there are no set
screws for the idle speed.

To summarize simply, it can't be a clogged orifice (I don't think) because
that wouldn't make the engines wheeze fast and slow and fast and slow
(would it? if so, how?).

If you need it, I can snap an audio or video but I hope that my
characterization of an idle speed that goes in and out is enough for you to
provide helpful advice (and not just advice to throw the gas away as even
if that is the cause - there has to be a physical reason for that to be the
cause).

I'm asking about the physical reason for the idle speed varying cyclically.


Empty out the old gas, put in fresh ethanol-free gas with some Sea Foam. Run it for 10 minutes, shut it off and let it sit over night. See how it runs in the morning.* .

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Old February 23rd 18, 07:04 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Default What mostly makes a small engine "wheeze" fast & slow, fast & slow, fast & slow?

Joe wrote:

Empty out the old gas, put in fresh ethanol-free gas with some Sea Foam.
Run it for 10 minutes, shut it off and let it sit over night.
See how it runs in the morning.


Thanks for that advice, which indicates that you're suggesting that the
wheezing is caused by clogged passageways, venturi's, and orifices, since
there are no injectors in such small engines.

Still, if it were clogged, then the stoichiometric ratio would be off from
14.5:7, but why the wheezing?

Why would a clogged passageway cause a speeding up and slowing down of the
engine, particularly engines that have a fixed throttle plate?
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Old February 23rd 18, 07:18 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Default What mostly makes a small engine "wheeze" fast & slow, fast &slow, fast & slow?

On 2/23/2018 11:43 AM, ultred ragnusen wrote:
What mostly makes a small simple engine (such as the Honda GC 160 that runs
my pressure washer or the Honda engine that runs my lawnmower) "wheeze"
fast & slow, fast & slow, fast & slow while idling under no load?

* snipperoo

I'm asking about the physical reason for the idle speed varying cyclically.


* It's called surging , and it's caused most often by clogged fuel
passages in the idle circuit or an improperly adjusted idle mixture
screw . But mostly the former . .

--
Snag
Ain't no dollar sign on
peace of mind - Zac Brown

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Old February 23rd 18, 08:24 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Default What mostly makes a small engine "wheeze" fast & slow, fast & slow, fast & slow?



Empty out the old gas, put in fresh ethanol-free gas with some Sea Foam.
Run it for 10 minutes, shut it off and let it sit over night.
See how it runs in the morning.* .



+ 1

The 10 hp Honda, on my generator acted-up once -
after about 6 months of inactivity. I didn't need any
extra additives - but a good test run with fresh gas
cleaned it up. I test it every 3 or 4 months now and
always use stabilizer.
John T.



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Old February 23rd 18, 10:51 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Default What mostly makes a small engine "wheeze" fast & slow, fast & slow, fast & slow?

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 09:43:12 -0800, ultred ragnusen
wrote:

I should note this is a California set of engines, so there are no set
screws for the idle speed.


You guys have "spark arrestors" on engines. I have read they need to
be removed an cleaned. Try that? Something about carbon build-up in
the arrestor. Maybe the engine is not exhausting burnt gases?

Surging engines often is because of improper air / fuel mixture.
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Old February 24th 18, 12:53 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Default What mostly makes a small engine "wheeze" fast & slow, fast & slow, fast & slow?

wrote:

The 10 hp Honda, on my generator acted-up once -
after about 6 months of inactivity. I didn't need any
extra additives - but a good test run with fresh gas
cleaned it up. I test it every 3 or 4 months now and
always use stabilizer.


For decades, I've been leaving the gas in engines, but these motors are
wheezing, fast and slow, and fast and slow, so I'm just asking to figure it
out.

As for "stabilizer", it seems like a worthless endeavor since it costs
almnost nothing for a gallon of gas versus what it must cost to buy and
stock stabilizer. Why bother? If stabilizing was my issue, I'd just dump
out the gas and use it for cleaning label goop off of kitchen jars.

I'm not against stabilizer - I just don't see the value since it has to
cost an appreciable portion of the gallon of gas price.

Is the reason for the stabilizer because you want LIQUID in the engine's
gas tank?

Otherwise, why not just dump the gas out to use as a cleaner?
(I guess a key question is how much does a gallon's worth of stabilizer
cost with respect to the $4 it costs for a gallon of gasoline?)
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Old February 24th 18, 12:55 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Default What mostly makes a small engine "wheeze" fast & slow, fast & slow, fast & slow?

Terry Coombs wrote:

* It's called surging , and it's caused most often by clogged fuel
passages in the idle circuit or an improperly adjusted idle mixture
screw . But mostly the former . .


Thanks for that word because it's apropos that the engine is idling and
surging periodically.

I don't think either of these California engines have an idle mixture
screw, as the engines are only about three or four years old, so it must be
the clogged passageways of the fuel passages.

I guess, in that case, Seafoam may be the trick as someone suggested.
Do you concur?

Or would you just run a few tanks of fuel?
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Old February 24th 18, 01:06 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Default What mostly makes a small engine "wheeze" fast & slow, fast & slow, fast & slow?

Oren wrote:

Surging engines often is because of improper air / fuel mixture.


Someone said it is likely surging due to clogged fuel passageways, which
makes sense because the air passageways aren't clogged.

If it's the clogged fuel passageways, it's likely because I don't start
these engines for months (sometimes years) at a time, where I leave the
fuel in them (sometimes I pour it out before use if it's really old).

But I wonder why it surges due to clogged fuel passageways?

If the passageway were VARIABLE in diameter, I could see it surging, but
it's a fixed diameter. So even with a clog, it's still a fixed diameter.

Anyway, once I have the word "surging", I can start Googling for Surging
Honda GCV 160, where I see it's a common problem but nobody seems to know
why.

http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/showth...ng-Honda-GC160
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...Number=1867275
http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/showth...CV-160-surging
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/108-sm...g-problem.html
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...1888530&page=2
etc.

It seems most people clean the carb, where there's no harm in that, but
nobody knows why it surges.

They say the orifices are small but that in and of itself can't cause
surging.

Something has to be VARIABLE for the surging to occur.
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Old February 24th 18, 01:41 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Default What mostly makes a small engine "wheeze" fast & slow, fast & slow, fast & slow?

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 17:06:38 -0800, ultred ragnusen
wrote:

Something has to be VARIABLE for the surging to occur.


Right, the engine is suffering starvation of fuel and oxygen (wrong
mixture). Seems you have spark so only two things allow surging;
starvation of fuel and/or oxygen.


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