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Old December 29th 18, 07:33 PM posted to alt.sci.physics,uk.d-i-y,alt.home.repair
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Default Slow microwave ovens

On 12/29/18 1:10 PM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 19:00:48 -0000, Dean Hoffman
wrote:

On 12/29/18 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW?* They
were invented decades ago.


****** Pretty much the same reason one doesn't always turn a conventional
oven up to broil.** 350 F.* is a pretty common setting if my memory is
working.
T4 has a good example.
*** It comes down to lack of demand.


Conventional ovens have to heat the food from the outside.* Microwaves
heat all the way through.


Well, the microwave cooking instructions on a lot of things say to
stir halfway
through cooking time. That would lead me to think microwaves have the same
issue as conventional ovens with the evenness factor.

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Old December 29th 18, 07:34 PM posted to alt.sci.physics,uk.d-i-y,alt.home.repair
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Default Slow microwave ovens



"William Gothberg" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:15:05 -0000, Bill Wright
wrote:

On 29/12/2018 16:27, William Gothberg wrote:

It can take 5 minutes to warm something from frozen to eating
temperature. I see no reason that couldn't be made into 2 minutes.


Conduction


Which would be way faster if the water content the microwaves were hitting
was heated hotter.


But that can grossly over cook the outer layer
of food and leave the inside uncooked when
there isnt enough time for the heat to be
conducted there.

Plus, make the microwave waveform more even, and you would need less
conduction.


The waveform has nothing to do with where
the microwaves get absorbed with big lumps
of food like say a leg of lamb etc.

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Old December 29th 18, 07:38 PM posted to alt.sci.physics,uk.d-i-y,alt.home.repair
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Default Slow microwave ovens

So just aother mouth with no real answers...
are you lymeboi or bod's off spring?



"William Gothberg" wrote in message
news :I was just asking WHY. And people have already said that commercial ones
are 2kW, so it's entirely possible.
:
: On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:19:48 -0000, ..shadow, me & my
wrote:
:
: So Mr Mouth when will you have this product on the market and how
: much will it cost??
:
: "William Gothberg" wrote in message
: news : ::
: : It can take 5 minutes to warm something from frozen to eating
temperature.
: I see no reason that couldn't be made into 2 minutes.
:
:


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Old December 29th 18, 07:41 PM posted to alt.sci.physics,uk.d-i-y,alt.home.repair
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Default Slow microwave ovens

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 19:33:24 -0000, Dean Hoffman wrote:

On 12/29/18 1:10 PM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 19:00:48 -0000, Dean Hoffman
wrote:

On 12/29/18 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW? They
were invented decades ago.

Pretty much the same reason one doesn't always turn a conventional
oven up to broil. 350 F. is a pretty common setting if my memory is
working.
T4 has a good example.
It comes down to lack of demand.


Conventional ovens have to heat the food from the outside. Microwaves
heat all the way through.


Well, the microwave cooking instructions on a lot of things say to
stir halfway
through cooking time. That would lead me to think microwaves have the same
issue as conventional ovens with the evenness factor.


They heat about an inch into the food. Good enough unless it's a huge meal.
  #65   Report Post  
Old December 29th 18, 07:46 PM posted to alt.sci.physics,uk.d-i-y,alt.home.repair
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Default Slow microwave ovens



"William Gothberg" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:34:22 -0000, Arthur Conan Doyle
wrote:

"William Gothberg" wrote:

I don't need a MW, but the usual 600W to 900W in domestic ovens is
pitiful. What's wrong with 2kW?


There are higher rating consumer units, but you have to look for them. I
had a
1.2kw range hood type that worked much better than the 900w types. I
think
commerical units (i.e. convenience store) can be found that are 1.8kw.

That said, what I find annoying is that the power control for every
consumer
microwave I've seen is duty cycle based. That is, so many seconds of full
power
followed by so many seconds of no power.

Some foods and defrosting would work much better if the actual power
level could
be adjusted. Panasonic claims to make an inverter based design, but I'm
not
convinced they actually adjust the outpout power.


I'm unsure how magnetrons work,


That's obvious.

but what's the big deal with running them at half power?


Not big deal so much as just easier to turn them on and off.

Do they have to be on full power,


No, the inverters don't, but that's more expensive to do.

and also can't be cycled more quickly?


The cycling speed doesn't matter.

Anyway, I've never used a microwave on anything other than full power -
even when defrosting,


Yes, you actually are that stupid/know it all.

which for some reason people think you have to select "defrost". Why?


Because that avoids cooking the outside
and leaving the inside still frozen solid.

It just takes longer. I can defrost food much faster on full power.


But with some food you end up with the
outside cooked and the inside still frozen.

Another weird thing my current (Hyundai 800W) microwave does is to switch
off the heating completely for the last 15 seconds but continue to run the
fan, light, and turntable (if you've selected at least 4 minutes time).
So er like why not just remove the food 15 seconds earlier?


Because some food that absorbs the microwaves in the outer
layer need time to let the heat conduct thru the food so you
don't end up with some food too hot to eat and the rest too cold.

Which I often do.


Yes, you actually are that stupid/know it all.

Funnily enough nothing ever exploded.


Its got nothing to do with exploding, everything to do with
not having hot spots and cold spots in the food. Yes, that
may not happen much with the vegy **** you choose to
eat but it does with other food that non freaks eat.



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Old December 29th 18, 07:59 PM posted to alt.home.repair,uk.d-i-y,alt.electronics,alt.sci.physics
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Default Slow microwave ovens



"William Gothberg" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:38:04 -0000, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 08:07:42 -0800, Bob F wrote:

On 12/29/2018 6:37 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 9:23:42 AM UTC-5, Bill Gill wrote:
On 12/29/2018 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW? They
were invented decades ago.
Higher powered microwaves would require higher powered electric
outlets, probably 220VAC (in the USA).

Also it is questionable whether higher powered ovens would be
practical for use. Getting warming times down to a couple of
seconds might not be a good idea. More speed is not always better.

Bill

+1

That about covers it. Not sure how useful more power would be. For
example,
last night I was thawing out a tomato sauce in a quart plastic
container.
The Panasonic has a defrost mode that uses about 30% power and cycles
that.


It gets the 30% power by cycling the 100% power on 30% of the time.

(By the way, adjusting the level does not actually change the wattage.
It simply means the microwave will pulse on and off at its fixed wattage
until the desired level is reached.)

https://lifehacker.com/5974788/famil...-cooking-a-joy

That was true of the first generation of Microwaves, but the current
"inverter" driver units actually CAN throttle the power. Inverter
microwaves are much better for defrosting AND cooking.

We've had ours for about 2 years now - replacing our original that we
bought in about 1985.

BIG difference (but the old one would likely still be working by the
time this one dies)


Why is it called an invertor?


Because that's how it works.

I thought an invertor was a device to increase the voltage - like running
240V devices off a 12V car battery.


As usual, you are so stupid that you havent even noticed
that most words have more than one meaning.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_oven

In most ovens, the magnetron is driven by a linear transformer
which can only feasibly be switched completely on or off. (One
variant of the GE Spacemaker had two taps on the transformer
primary, for high and low power modes.) Usually choice of
power level doesn't affect intensity of the microwave radiation;
instead, the magnetron is cycled on and off every few seconds,
thus altering the large scale duty cycle. Newer models use inverter
power supplies that use pulse-width modulation to provide
effectively continuous heating at reduced power settings, so that
foods are heated more evenly at a given power level and can be
heated more quickly without being damaged by uneven heating.

And why on earth would you not want to cook on full power? I've never had
a reason to lower the power from the maximum of 800W. I want the meal as
soon as possible!


Yeah, you know it all, no microwave designer knows anything.

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Old December 29th 18, 08:02 PM posted to alt.home.repair,uk.d-i-y,alt.electronics,alt.sci.physics
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Default Slow microwave ovens



"Arthur Conan Doyle" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
"William Gothberg" wrote:

Why is it called an invertor?


Typical microwaves use fixed AC power to drive the magnetron. Inverter
driven
magnetrons use DC power, which can be variable.


Pulse width modulation, actually.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_oven

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Old December 29th 18, 08:18 PM posted to alt.sci.physics,uk.d-i-y,alt.home.repair
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Default Slow microwave ovens

Dean Hoffman wrote:

Well, the microwave cooking instructions on a lot of things say to stir halfway
through cooking time. That would lead me to think microwaves have the same
issue as conventional ovens with the evenness factor.


They do. Some microwaves had rotating wave guides hidden above the cooking
chamber in an attempt to even things out. Haven't looked to see if they still do
or just rely on the turntable, which doesn't work all that well. Suspect the
density consistency and evenness of the water content of the item being cooked
is the reason.
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Old December 29th 18, 08:23 PM posted to alt.sci.physics,uk.d-i-y,alt.home.repair
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Default Slow microwave ovens

It was a question, not an answer.


On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 19:38:34 -0000, ..shadow, me & my wrote:

So just aother mouth with no real answers...
are you lymeboi or bod's off spring?



"William Gothberg" wrote in message
news :I was just asking WHY. And people have already said that commercial ones
are 2kW, so it's entirely possible.
:
: On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:19:48 -0000, ..shadow, me & my
wrote:
:
: So Mr Mouth when will you have this product on the market and how
: much will it cost??
:
: "William Gothberg" wrote in message
: news : ::
: : It can take 5 minutes to warm something from frozen to eating
temperature.
: I see no reason that couldn't be made into 2 minutes.
:
:


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Old December 29th 18, 09:03 PM posted to alt.home.repair,uk.d-i-y,alt.electronics,alt.sci.physics
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Default Troll-feeding Senile YANKIETARD Alert!

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 12:27:21 -0600, Arthur Conan Doyle, another mentally
challenged, troll-feeding senile Yankietard, blathered:


Why is it called an invertor?


Typical microwaves use fixed AC power to drive the magnetron. Inverter driven
magnetrons use DC power, which can be variable.


The abnormal troll asks, and the abnormal senile Yankietard delivers,
inevitably! LOL


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