On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 18:25:56 -0000, wrote:

On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 1:06:23 PM UTC-5, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:57:35 -0000, Bill Gill wrote:

On 12/29/2018 11:34 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 16:56:35 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 11:27:53 AM UTC-5, William Gothberg
wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 14:23:37 -0000, Bill Gill wrote:

On 12/29/2018 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW? They
were invented decades ago.
Higher powered microwaves would require higher powered electric
outlets, probably 220VAC (in the USA).

Not a problem in Europe where everything is 240V. Another reason you
ought to stop that low voltage crap! Do you seriously have to hard
wire all your washing machines, dishwashers, tumble dryers, etc,
etc? And what on earth do you do with hoovers?

No. Of those only a dishwasher is hardwired, typically. The rest are
plug
and cord, 240V in the case of electric dryers. Works for me.

So you do have sockets where you can plug in 240V 3kW devices, just like
in the UK. So no problem with a more powerful microwave then.
If you don't mind going to the garage/laundry room/etc. to use your
microwave.

In the UK we don't have that problem, my kitchen is full of 13A 240V sockets, just like every other room, it's what I plug my kettle, dishwasher, washing machine, bread maker, etc, etc into. All of which would be utterly useless on a 120V circuit. I thought the USA had 240V sockets in rooms where they're likely to be needed, like the kitchen? And where do you plug in a 2kW hoover? I plug mine in any room I'm hoovering.

If there's a 240V socket in the kitchen, it's quite likely behind the stove,
which is plugged into it.

I wasn't conveniently able to find the power consumption of my vacuum
cleaner, but I'm sure it isn't 2 kW. My floors are hardwood, so that
kind of power isn't required.

1kW hoovers are ****, especially if you have pets or carpets.

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 18:27:21 -0000, Arthur Conan Doyle wrote:

"William Gothberg" wrote:

Why is it called an invertor?

Typical microwaves use fixed AC power to drive the magnetron. Inverter driven
magnetrons use DC power, which can be variable.

So they rectify the AC, then boost the DC voltage as required by the user setting?

But even without an invertor, surely you could have a few tappings on a transformer to change the AC voltage to the magnetron? It's not like you need infinite control, just 3 or 4 would do.

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 18:45:47 -0000, rbowman wrote:

On 12/29/2018 06:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW? They
were invented decades ago.

I worked for a company around 1970 that developed a few high power
microwaves that were placed in area restaurants. The idea, now
completely familiar, was the restaurant could prepare quantities of
food, freeze them, and thaw on demand. Other companies had similar
industrial ovens.

The core business of the company was industrial plastics preheaters
which functioned at around 100 MHz rather than microwave frequencies.
They completely missed the consumer microwave market that was to grow in
the later '70s.

We always had a couple of the smaller preheaters hanging around
engineering. They did wonders for stale donuts. Even the factory workers
in the molding plants caught on. 'I bet if that thing can heat a
phenolic biscuit to 300 degrees it would work on my sandwich.' We didn't
explicitly mention it when installing new equipment other than vague
cautions about not putting aluminum foil in the cavity. The larger
models were 15 KW and could generate some Tesla quality fireworks.

I've watched countless Youtube videos of people abusing microwaves. The funniest one was a teenager who thought it would be a good idea to microwave one of those chemical lights - the ones you shake and they glow green. It exploded and got him in the eyes, followed by his father yelling "I told you not to do that!". I fell off my chair laughing.

As the various RF technologies like heat sealers made it to the
workplace a whole folklore grew up. Working around them could either
make you sterile or incredibly fertile, take your pick.

The technology has been around for over 50 years. What you find at Tesco
is what sells.

I'm surprised people aren't going for "super fast microwave, cook your meal in 5 minutes" varieties.

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 18:48:38 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 1:21:48 PM UTC-5, Arthur Conan Doyle wrote:
"William Gothberg" wrote:

Anyway, I've never used a microwave on anything other than full power - even when defrosting, which for some reason people think you have to select "defrost". Why? It just takes longer. I can defrost food much faster on full power.

The idea is not to cook the food as its defrosting. Full power is fine if you
want the end item hot. It's not good if you want something room tempurature or
slightly cooler to use as a part of preparation of something else.

+1

I already tried to explain that to him with my frozen tomato sauce example.
You put a quart plastic container in the microwave and even on the defrost
setting, where it runs at like 30% power and also pulses that on for maybe
75 secs, then off for 20 or so, the bottom gets hot to the point that the
plastic container can start to soften, while the upper portion is still
frozen solid. You're right, defrosting meat is an even better example.
You'd be cooking part of it while the rest is still frozen. It already
happens with the current ovens, if you're not careful.

Microwaving something in a cheap **** plastic container is insane. I always cook or eat things in a real pot bowl. Plastic melts!

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 18:50:02 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 1:45:03 PM UTC-5, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 18:21:45 -0000, Arthur Conan Doyle wrote:

"William Gothberg" wrote:

Anyway, I've never used a microwave on anything other than full power - even when defrosting, which for some reason people think you have to select "defrost". Why? It just takes longer. I can defrost food much faster on full power.

The idea is not to cook the food as its defrosting. Full power is fine if you
want the end item hot. It's not good if you want something room tempurature or
slightly cooler to use as a part of preparation of something else.

Then I just use less cooking time. Full power will defrost to room temperature much faster than that pointless defrost mode. And if you're about to say it won't be even, so what? If it's for part of preparation of something else, it has plenty time to even out.

The so what is that the plastic container will melt or part of the meat
will be cooked via steaming, instead of being able to make it into a
burger and grill it. Capiche? No, of course not.

I don't seem to have that problem, full power defrosts things evenly enough. Some bits are probably a bit hotter than others, but it's evened out by the time I eat it.

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:15:05 +0000, Bill Wright, yet another braindamaged,
troll-feeding senile idiot, blathered:


Conduction

Yes, senile idiot, even a single-word feedback helps the troll to keep going
and going.... ****ed up stupid seniles! tsk

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 12:00:47 -0600, Bill Gill, another brain damaged,
troll-feeding, senile Yankietard, blathered:


1200 watt consumer microwaves are widely available. Check your
Walmart or whatever you have.

Bill

Yeah, KEEP feeding the retarded Scottish attention whore ...and see what you
get for it! LOL IDIOT!

Brian Gaff wrote

I am not sure what you mean.

He wants a higher power microwave that heats
say a cup of water in less time. Trivially buyable.

You can also get commercial microwaves that
have two magnetrons put a lot more microwaves
into want is being cooked to cook it faster.

Surely the speed of heating depends on the absorption of the energy by
what is inside the machine.

But that depends on how much microwave power the
magnetron is putting into the oven chamber itself.

He's talking about cooking food or heating water.

If its not high enough in things that can get hot, like water content, you
can cook it as long as you like with little effect at all.

"William Gothberg" wrote in message
news
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW? They
were
invented decades ago.

On 12/29/18 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW?* They
were invented decades ago.

Pretty much the same reason one doesn't always turn a conventional
oven up to broil. 350º F. is a pretty common setting if my memory is
working.
T4 has a good example.
It comes down to lack of demand.

In article ,
"William Gothberg" writes:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:38:04 -0000, Clare Snyder wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 08:07:42 -0800, Bob F wrote:

On 12/29/2018 6:37 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 9:23:42 AM UTC-5, Bill Gill wrote:
On 12/29/2018 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW? They
were invented decades ago.
Higher powered microwaves would require higher powered electric
outlets, probably 220VAC (in the USA).

Also it is questionable whether higher powered ovens would be
practical for use. Getting warming times down to a couple of
seconds might not be a good idea. More speed is not always better.

Bill

+1

That about covers it. Not sure how useful more power would be. For example,
last night I was thawing out a tomato sauce in a quart plastic container.
The Panasonic has a defrost mode that uses about 30% power and cycles that.


It gets the 30% power by cycling the 100% power on 30% of the time.

(By the way, adjusting the level does not actually change the wattage.
It simply means the microwave will pulse on and off at its fixed wattage
until the desired level is reached.)

https://lifehacker.com/5974788/famil...-cooking-a-joy
That was true of the first generation of Microwaves, but the current
"inverter" driver units actually CAN throttle the power. Inverter
microwaves are much better for defrosting AND cooking.

We've had ours for about 2 years now - replacing our original that we
bought in about 1985.

BIG difference (but the old one would likely still be working by the
time this one dies)

Why is it called an invertor? I thought an invertor was a device to increase the voltage - like running 240V devices off a 12V car battery.

To run a 5kV magnetron from 240V.

And why on earth would you not want to cook on full power? I've never had a reason to lower the power from the maximum of 800W. I want the meal as soon as possible!

Microwaves do not penetrate all the way through larger volumes of
food - the heating is done in the outer 1-2cm. Heating the middle
is done by conduction (and by convection if the food is a fluid).
If you pile in energy faster than it can conduct all the way through,
you will have a burned outside and a cold middle.

Domestic microwave food products are not designed to be heated in
2kW ovens. Many would fail to cook properly/safely.
Commercial microwave food products (some anyway) are designed to be
heated in 2kW microwaves.

And in reference to your other post, it's not simply a matter of
dividing the cooking time by two. The amount of energy absorbed by
a food product also depends on the surface area exposed to the
microwaves (1 pea in a 2kW oven will not absord 2kW), so the cooking
time in a 2kW oven depends on the size and shape of the item - it
would have to be calculated by the manufacturer and included on the
packaging, but in practice, most domestic food products will not have
sufficient heat conduction to be able to absord 2kW and cook properly.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 11:34:22 -0600, Arthur Conan Doyle, another mentally
challenged, troll-feeding senile Yankietard, blathered:


There are higher rating consumer units, but you have to look for them.

The ONLY thing he will look for is how many senile idiots are going to take
his latest idiotic baits in this thread again, you dumbass!

On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 05:05:56 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rot Speed,
the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW?

We do.

Both of you exceptional retards DO make complete asses of yourselves, EVERY
day! BG

--
Another retarded "conversation" between Birdbrain and senile Rot:

Senile Rot: " Did you ever dig a hole to bury your own ****?"

Birdbrain: "I do if there's no flush toilet around."

Senile Rot: "Yeah, I prefer camping like that, off by myself with
no dunnys around and have always buried the ****."

MID:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 19:00:48 -0000, Dean Hoffman wrote:

On 12/29/18 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW? They
were invented decades ago.

Pretty much the same reason one doesn't always turn a conventional
oven up to broil. 350º F. is a pretty common setting if my memory is
working.
T4 has a good example.
It comes down to lack of demand.

Conventional ovens have to heat the food from the outside. Microwaves heat all the way through.

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 19:02:23 -0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

In article ,
"William Gothberg" writes:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:38:04 -0000, Clare Snyder wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 08:07:42 -0800, Bob F wrote:

On 12/29/2018 6:37 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 9:23:42 AM UTC-5, Bill Gill wrote:
On 12/29/2018 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW? They
were invented decades ago.
Higher powered microwaves would require higher powered electric
outlets, probably 220VAC (in the USA).

Also it is questionable whether higher powered ovens would be
practical for use. Getting warming times down to a couple of
seconds might not be a good idea. More speed is not always better.

Bill

+1

That about covers it. Not sure how useful more power would be. For example,
last night I was thawing out a tomato sauce in a quart plastic container.
The Panasonic has a defrost mode that uses about 30% power and cycles that.


It gets the 30% power by cycling the 100% power on 30% of the time.

(By the way, adjusting the level does not actually change the wattage.
It simply means the microwave will pulse on and off at its fixed wattage
until the desired level is reached.)

https://lifehacker.com/5974788/famil...-cooking-a-joy
That was true of the first generation of Microwaves, but the current
"inverter" driver units actually CAN throttle the power. Inverter
microwaves are much better for defrosting AND cooking.

We've had ours for about 2 years now - replacing our original that we
bought in about 1985.

BIG difference (but the old one would likely still be working by the
time this one dies)

Why is it called an invertor? I thought an invertor was a device to increase the voltage - like running 240V devices off a 12V car battery.

To run a 5kV magnetron from 240V.

That could be done with a transformer, with a few tappings to allow lower power.

And why on earth would you not want to cook on full power? I've never had a reason to lower the power from the maximum of 800W. I want the meal as soon as possible!

Microwaves do not penetrate all the way through larger volumes of
food - the heating is done in the outer 1-2cm. Heating the middle
is done by conduction (and by convection if the food is a fluid).
If you pile in energy faster than it can conduct all the way through,
you will have a burned outside and a cold middle.

I never have that problem, water (which most foods are primarily made of) conducts pretty quick.

Domestic microwave food products are not designed to be heated in
2kW ovens. Many would fail to cook properly/safely.
Commercial microwave food products (some anyway) are designed to be
heated in 2kW microwaves.

And in reference to your other post, it's not simply a matter of
dividing the cooking time by two. The amount of energy absorbed by
a food product also depends on the surface area exposed to the
microwaves (1 pea in a 2kW oven will not absord 2kW), so the cooking
time in a 2kW oven depends on the size and shape of the item - it
would have to be calculated by the manufacturer and included on the
packaging, but in practice, most domestic food products will not have
sufficient heat conduction to be able to absord 2kW and cook properly.

Most meals are way bigger than a pea. Everything I cook is in a dish and about 1 inch deep. I'm sure that most if it would be hit by microwaves directly.

"William Gothberg" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 14:23:37 -0000, Bill Gill wrote:

On 12/29/2018 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW? They
were invented decades ago.
Higher powered microwaves would require higher powered electric
outlets, probably 220VAC (in the USA).

Not a problem in Europe where everything is 240V. Another reason you
ought to stop that low voltage crap!

Another pathetic excuse for a troll.

Do you seriously have to hard wire all your washing machines, dishwashers,
tumble dryers, etc, etc?

Nope the higher power devices plug in.

And what on earth do you do with hoovers?

They work fine on 110V, stupid.

Also it is questionable whether higher powered ovens would be
practical for use. Getting warming times down to a couple of
seconds might not be a good idea. More speed is not always better.

It can take 5 minutes to warm something from frozen to eating temperature.

Hardly the end of civilisation as we know it.

I see no reason that couldn't be made into 2 minutes.

You can buy them like that and have been able to for decades.

"%" wrote in message
...
On 2018-12-29 9:27 a.m., William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 14:23:37 -0000, Bill Gill wrote:

On 12/29/2018 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW? They
were invented decades ago.
Higher powered microwaves would require higher powered electric
outlets, probably 220VAC (in the USA).

Not a problem in Europe where everything is 240V. Another reason you
ought to stop that low voltage crap! Do you seriously have to hard wire
all your washing machines, dishwashers, tumble dryers, etc, etc? And
what on earth do you do with hoovers?

Also it is questionable whether higher powered ovens would be
practical for use. Getting warming times down to a couple of
seconds might not be a good idea. More speed is not always better.

It can take 5 minutes to warm something from frozen to eating
temperature. I see no reason that couldn't be made into 2 minutes.

don't use microwaves if you don't like them ,
use an oven , i want a fast freeze machine ,
i want to freeze things in 5 minutes

You can buy those too, used to snap freeze fresh veg.

"William Gothberg" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 14:46:52 -0000, Andy Bennet wrote:

On 29/12/2018 13:43, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW? They
were invented decades ago.

High power microwaves (1MW) are used in industry in for example ore
extraction/rock pulverizing.
1MW into a cup of water is not pretty, explodes the water contents and
breaks the cup.

I don't need a MW, but the usual 600W to 900W in domestic ovens

That's a lie.

is pitiful. What's wrong with 2kW?

Nothing, trivially buyable with commercial microwaves
which are normally used in fast food places and restaurants.

"William Gothberg" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 14:56:26 -0000, Andrew Gabriel
wrote:

In article ,
Bill Gill writes:
On 12/29/2018 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW? They
were invented decades ago.
Higher powered microwaves would require higher powered electric
outlets, probably 220VAC (in the USA).

Also it is questionable whether higher powered ovens would be
practical for use. Getting warming times down to a couple of
seconds might not be a good idea. More speed is not always better.

Most commercial microwave ovens are higher power - typically twice
that of a domestic oven (they often use a pair of magnetrons).
We have them in the office kitchen areas (I think they are 2kW).
One problem is that retail food products do not state cooking
times in commercial microwave ovens - we have warnings posted on
the ovens that they are much more powerful.

Is the average person not able to divide by two?

It isnt that simple with some food because with some
food the microwaves are absorbed by the outer layer
and the inside is heated by conduction.

Also, not all food can
be heated faster - often heat conduction is still a critical part
of the process, and the ability of food to conduct heat limits
the power input some food products can absorb without burning
whilst other areas are still cold.

Then the oven needs to have a more even waveform.

It isnt the evenness of the waveform that matters when
the outer layer of the food absorbs all the microwaves
and the inside is heated by conduction.

There's no problem with standard socket outlets in most countries.
In Europe and many other countries outside America, standard sockets
are designed to provide 3kW or 3.5kW (depending on country).
Many domestic microwaves in Europe are combination ovens with
convection, fan, and infra-red (grill) heating too, and often
run at 2.5kW when using combination heating (with a 1kW magnetron).
In a domestic environment, combination heating is generally more
useful than simply a more powerful microwave.

Not when I want to heat something in 2 minutes, conventional heating won't
even get going in that time.

"William Gothberg" wrote in message
news
Most food is very high in water content. Double the microwaves, double
the speed the water heats up.

But with some food you get the outer layer cooked
to death because that's where all the microwaves get
absorbed and the inside isnt cooked because there
isnt enough time for the heat to be conducted there.

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 15:33:12 -0000, Brian Gaff
wrote:

I am not sure what you mean.
Surely the speed of heating depends on the absorption of the energy by
what
is inside the machine.
If its not high enough in things that can get hot, like water content,
you
can cook it as long as you like with little effect at all.

Brian

"Arthur Conan Doyle" wrote in message
news:qmbf2eljuqbcn7v6tgsit6cstjemuo04iq@None...
"William Gothberg" wrote:

I don't need a MW, but the usual 600W to 900W in domestic ovens is
pitiful. What's wrong with 2kW?

There are higher rating consumer units, but you have to look for them. I
had a
1.2kw range hood type that worked much better than the 900w types. I think
commerical units (i.e. convenience store) can be found that are 1.8kw.

That said, what I find annoying is that the power control for every
consumer
microwave I've seen is duty cycle based. That is, so many seconds of full
power
followed by so many seconds of no power.

Some foods and defrosting would work much better if the actual power level
could
be adjusted. Panasonic claims to make an inverter based design, but I'm
not
convinced they actually adjust the outpout power.

They do actually and its trivial to prove that by
monitoring the power consumption over time.

On 12/29/18 1:10 PM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 19:00:48 -0000, Dean Hoffman
wrote:

On 12/29/18 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW?* They
were invented decades ago.

****** Pretty much the same reason one doesn't always turn a conventional
oven up to broil.** 350º F.* is a pretty common setting if my memory is
working.
T4 has a good example.
*** It comes down to lack of demand.

Conventional ovens have to heat the food from the outside.* Microwaves
heat all the way through.

Well, the microwave cooking instructions on a lot of things say to
stir halfway
through cooking time. That would lead me to think microwaves have the same
issue as conventional ovens with the evenness factor.

"William Gothberg" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:15:05 -0000, Bill Wright
wrote:

On 29/12/2018 16:27, William Gothberg wrote:

It can take 5 minutes to warm something from frozen to eating
temperature. I see no reason that couldn't be made into 2 minutes.

Conduction

Which would be way faster if the water content the microwaves were hitting
was heated hotter.

But that can grossly over cook the outer layer
of food and leave the inside uncooked when
there isnt enough time for the heat to be
conducted there.

Plus, make the microwave waveform more even, and you would need less
conduction.

The waveform has nothing to do with where
the microwaves get absorbed with big lumps
of food like say a leg of lamb etc.

So just aother mouth with no real answers...
are you lymeboi or bod's off spring?



"William Gothberg" wrote in message
news :I was just asking WHY. And people have already said that commercial ones
are 2kW, so it's entirely possible.
:
: On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:19:48 -0000, ..shadow, me & my
wrote:
:
: So Mr Mouth when will you have this product on the market and how
: much will it cost??
:
: "William Gothberg" wrote in message
: news : ::
: : It can take 5 minutes to warm something from frozen to eating
temperature.
: I see no reason that couldn't be made into 2 minutes.
:
:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 19:33:24 -0000, Dean Hoffman wrote:

On 12/29/18 1:10 PM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 19:00:48 -0000, Dean Hoffman
wrote:

On 12/29/18 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW? They
were invented decades ago.

Pretty much the same reason one doesn't always turn a conventional
oven up to broil. 350º F. is a pretty common setting if my memory is
working.
T4 has a good example.
It comes down to lack of demand.

Conventional ovens have to heat the food from the outside. Microwaves
heat all the way through.

Well, the microwave cooking instructions on a lot of things say to
stir halfway
through cooking time. That would lead me to think microwaves have the same
issue as conventional ovens with the evenness factor.

They heat about an inch into the food. Good enough unless it's a huge meal.

"William Gothberg" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:34:22 -0000, Arthur Conan Doyle
wrote:

"William Gothberg" wrote:

I don't need a MW, but the usual 600W to 900W in domestic ovens is
pitiful. What's wrong with 2kW?

There are higher rating consumer units, but you have to look for them. I
had a
1.2kw range hood type that worked much better than the 900w types. I
think
commerical units (i.e. convenience store) can be found that are 1.8kw.

That said, what I find annoying is that the power control for every
consumer
microwave I've seen is duty cycle based. That is, so many seconds of full
power
followed by so many seconds of no power.

Some foods and defrosting would work much better if the actual power
level could
be adjusted. Panasonic claims to make an inverter based design, but I'm
not
convinced they actually adjust the outpout power.

I'm unsure how magnetrons work,

That's obvious.

but what's the big deal with running them at half power?

Not big deal so much as just easier to turn them on and off.

Do they have to be on full power,

No, the inverters don't, but that's more expensive to do.

and also can't be cycled more quickly?

The cycling speed doesn't matter.

Anyway, I've never used a microwave on anything other than full power -
even when defrosting,

Yes, you actually are that stupid/know it all.

which for some reason people think you have to select "defrost". Why?

Because that avoids cooking the outside
and leaving the inside still frozen solid.

It just takes longer. I can defrost food much faster on full power.

But with some food you end up with the
outside cooked and the inside still frozen.

Another weird thing my current (Hyundai 800W) microwave does is to switch
off the heating completely for the last 15 seconds but continue to run the
fan, light, and turntable (if you've selected at least 4 minutes time).
So er like why not just remove the food 15 seconds earlier?

Because some food that absorbs the microwaves in the outer
layer need time to let the heat conduct thru the food so you
don't end up with some food too hot to eat and the rest too cold.

Which I often do.

Yes, you actually are that stupid/know it all.

Funnily enough nothing ever exploded.

Its got nothing to do with exploding, everything to do with
not having hot spots and cold spots in the food. Yes, that
may not happen much with the vegy **** you choose to
eat but it does with other food that non freaks eat.

"William Gothberg" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:38:04 -0000, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 08:07:42 -0800, Bob F wrote:

On 12/29/2018 6:37 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 9:23:42 AM UTC-5, Bill Gill wrote:
On 12/29/2018 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW? They
were invented decades ago.
Higher powered microwaves would require higher powered electric
outlets, probably 220VAC (in the USA).

Also it is questionable whether higher powered ovens would be
practical for use. Getting warming times down to a couple of
seconds might not be a good idea. More speed is not always better.

Bill

+1

That about covers it. Not sure how useful more power would be. For
example,
last night I was thawing out a tomato sauce in a quart plastic
container.
The Panasonic has a defrost mode that uses about 30% power and cycles
that.


It gets the 30% power by cycling the 100% power on 30% of the time.

(By the way, adjusting the level does not actually change the wattage.
It simply means the microwave will pulse on and off at its fixed wattage
until the desired level is reached.)

https://lifehacker.com/5974788/famil...-cooking-a-joy
That was true of the first generation of Microwaves, but the current
"inverter" driver units actually CAN throttle the power. Inverter
microwaves are much better for defrosting AND cooking.

We've had ours for about 2 years now - replacing our original that we
bought in about 1985.

BIG difference (but the old one would likely still be working by the
time this one dies)

Why is it called an invertor?

Because that's how it works.

I thought an invertor was a device to increase the voltage - like running
240V devices off a 12V car battery.

As usual, you are so stupid that you havent even noticed
that most words have more than one meaning.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_oven

In most ovens, the magnetron is driven by a linear transformer
which can only feasibly be switched completely on or off. (One
variant of the GE Spacemaker had two taps on the transformer
primary, for high and low power modes.) Usually choice of
power level doesn't affect intensity of the microwave radiation;
instead, the magnetron is cycled on and off every few seconds,
thus altering the large scale duty cycle. Newer models use inverter
power supplies that use pulse-width modulation to provide
effectively continuous heating at reduced power settings, so that
foods are heated more evenly at a given power level and can be
heated more quickly without being damaged by uneven heating.

And why on earth would you not want to cook on full power? I've never had
a reason to lower the power from the maximum of 800W. I want the meal as
soon as possible!

Yeah, you know it all, no microwave designer knows anything.

"Arthur Conan Doyle" wrote in message
news:n1ff2el7b5fc6megbeihv069t05gouso10@None...
"William Gothberg" wrote:

Why is it called an invertor?

Typical microwaves use fixed AC power to drive the magnetron. Inverter
driven
magnetrons use DC power, which can be variable.

Pulse width modulation, actually.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_oven

Dean Hoffman wrote:

Well, the microwave cooking instructions on a lot of things say to stir halfway
through cooking time. That would lead me to think microwaves have the same
issue as conventional ovens with the evenness factor.

They do. Some microwaves had rotating wave guides hidden above the cooking
chamber in an attempt to even things out. Haven't looked to see if they still do
or just rely on the turntable, which doesn't work all that well. Suspect the
density consistency and evenness of the water content of the item being cooked
is the reason.

It was a question, not an answer.


On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 19:38:34 -0000, ..shadow, me & my wrote:

So just aother mouth with no real answers...
are you lymeboi or bod's off spring?



"William Gothberg" wrote in message
news :I was just asking WHY. And people have already said that commercial ones
are 2kW, so it's entirely possible.
:
: On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:19:48 -0000, ..shadow, me & my
wrote:
:
: So Mr Mouth when will you have this product on the market and how
: much will it cost??
:
: "William Gothberg" wrote in message
: news : ::
: : It can take 5 minutes to warm something from frozen to eating
temperature.
: I see no reason that couldn't be made into 2 minutes.
:
:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 12:27:21 -0600, Arthur Conan Doyle, another mentally
challenged, troll-feeding senile Yankietard, blathered:


Why is it called an invertor?

Typical microwaves use fixed AC power to drive the magnetron. Inverter driven
magnetrons use DC power, which can be variable.

The abnormal troll asks, and the abnormal senile Yankietard delivers,
inevitably! LOL

On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 06:59:14 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rot Speed,
the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Yeah, you know it all, no microwave designer knows anything.

Yeah, he obviously doesn't yet know that YOU *REALLY REALLY* know it all,
eh, senile Mr Know-it-all? LOL

--
pamela about Rot Speed:
"His off the cuff expertise demonstrates how little he knows..."
MID:

On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 06:27:44 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rot Speed,
the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

Is the average person not able to divide by two?

It isnt that simple

It's VERY simple for him to keep baiting you senile idiots with the dumbest
questions ...as often as he wants! LOL

--
Norman Wells addressing senile Rot:
"Ah, the voice of scum speaks."
MID:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 12:25:05 -0600, Arthur Conan Doyle, another mentally
challenged, troll-feeding senile Yankietard, blathered:


In the US 240v sockets are typically found in the kitchen for use by an electric
range, or in a dedicated laundry room for use by an electric dryer. Sometimes
they can be found in a garage.

Good Lord! Not the SAME **** again! How OFTEN have you retarded senile Yanks
and the troll you like to suck off so much been through with the same ****
over the last year? tsk

On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 06:34:17 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rot Speed,
the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


The waveform has nothing to do with where
the microwaves get absorbed with big lumps
of food like say a leg of lamb etc.

I'd love to put your and his head inside a microwave! Might be the one thing
to make you two prize idiots stop babbling! BG

--
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp addressing Rot Speed:
"You really are a clueless pillock."
MID:

On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 06:15:50 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rot Speed,
the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Another pathetic excuse for a troll.

Good to see that you KEEP reading all my posts (including my sigs). LOL

--
Richard addressing Rot Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID:

On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 05:16:15 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rot Speed,
the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Also it is questionable whether higher powered ovens would be
practical for use. Getting warming times down to a couple of
seconds might not be a good idea. More speed is not always better.

Any decent microwave fixes that problem

It those ONLY could fix that problem with your senile head, eh, senile Rot?
G

--
Java Jive to senile Rot:
You're getting there, it's clear that you've now reached the level of
"Nyah nyah nanyah nyah!", but surely you can be even more juvenile than
that?
MID:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 12:21:45 -0600, Arthur Conan Doyle, another mentally
challenged, troll-feeding senile Yankietard, blathered:


The idea is not to cook the food as its defrosting.

LOL! There is NO bait idiotic enough set out by the Scottish ****** that YOU
will NOT take, eh, senile Yankietard?

On 12/29/2018 10:16 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:38:04 -0000, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 08:07:42 -0800, Bob F wrote:

On 12/29/2018 6:37 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 9:23:42 AM UTC-5, Bill Gill wrote:
On 12/29/2018 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW? They
were invented decades ago.
Higher powered microwaves would require higher powered electric
outlets, probably 220VAC (in the USA).

Also it is questionable whether higher powered ovens would be
practical for use. Getting warming times down to a couple of
seconds might not be a good idea. More speed is not always better.

Bill

+1

That about covers it. Not sure how useful more power would be. For
example,
last night I was thawing out a tomato sauce in a quart plastic
container.
The Panasonic has a defrost mode that uses about 30% power and
cycles that.


It gets the 30% power by cycling the 100% power on 30% of the time.

(By the way, adjusting the level does not actually change the wattage.
It simply means the microwave will pulse on and off at its fixed wattage
until the desired level is reached.)

https://lifehacker.com/5974788/famil...-cooking-a-joy

That was true of the first generation of Microwaves, but the current
"inverter" driver units actually CAN throttle the power. Inverter
microwaves are much better for defrosting AND cooking.

We've had ours for about 2 years now - replacing our original that we
bought in about 1985.

BIG difference (but the old one would likely still be working by the
time this one dies)

Why is it called an invertor? I thought an invertor was a device to
increase the voltage - like running 240V devices off a 12V car battery.

And why on earth would you not want to cook on full power? I've never
had a reason to lower the power from the maximum of 800W. I want the
meal as soon as possible!

There's been a lot of nitpicking in this thread.

All microwaves reduce power by cycling between 0 and 100% power.
The relative power level is the duty factor of that on/off cycle.

Older microwaves switch the INPUT to the power transformer.
That also runs the filament. The time to heat up the filament
is the limiting factor in how short you can make the on-time.
You get a minimum of about 10 seconds on-time.
That minimum time is plenty to make food explode.

Better microwaves are called "Inverter" microwaves.
I believe they're all licensed from Panasonic.
When I bought mine, it seemed that all the licensees had
dried up leaving Panasonic as the only locally available units.

It's my understanding that they heat the filament independently
and can have very short on-times. Duty factor is the same as
the older microwaves, but the on-time can be much shorter.

Foods don't explode on low power like they used to.

Food is not uniform. The effectiveness of microwaves decreases
as the food thickness increases. There's a thermal time constant.
So, if you cook at lower average power for longer time,
you can warm the inside without seriously overcooking the outside
or having local boiling that makes food explode.

The minimum on-time really helps with that. I haven't had food
explode since I got an Inverter microwave. The defrost cycle
really does work well.

They're slightly more expensive, but it's worth it.

On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 06:46:21 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rot Speed,
the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the two prize idiots' endless sick troll**** unread again

--
Another TYPICAL retarded "conversation" between Birdbrain and senile Rot:

Senile Rot: " Did you ever dig a hole to bury your own ****?"

Birdbrain: "I do if there's no flush toilet around."

Senile Rot: "Yeah, I prefer camping like that, off by myself with
no dunnys around and have always buried the ****."

MID:

On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 06:29:48 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rot Speed,
the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


But with some food you get the outer layer cooked
to death because that's where all the microwaves get
absorbed and the inside isnt cooked because there
isnt enough time for the heat to be conducted there.

Just for HOW long can all you idiots here still go on like that? tsk

--
pamela about Rot Speed:
"His off the cuff expertise demonstrates how little he knows..."
MID: