On 17/02/2018 08:27, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 22:43:39 +0000, Fredxx wrote:

snip

It is Tim who has the fetish with left/right sided brain.

It's not a fetish, I find the general theory around brain
lateralization to be a handy tool to help understand why some think
and do as they do and therefore why some say and do such strange (to
someone opposite to them) things.

A theory that has been debunked. It's a typical Remoaner trait to live
in the past using outdated theories.

Perhaps you should move forward too, and embrace Brexit?

On 17/02/2018 11:00, T i m wrote:
On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 10:17:51 +0000, (Roger Hayter)
wrote:

T i m wrote:

On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 22:17:09 +0000, (Roger Hayter)
wrote:

T i m wrote:

On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 12:13:52 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Friday, 16 February 2018 16:25:42 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
snip

Maybe you really are JWS?

until you define 'jws' who knows


Classic left brainer response. Really, you can't work out who JWS is
or indeed that 'it's' a person!

You really can't make this stuff up (and with fanatic Brexiteers
roaming about you don't have to!).


One thing your much vaunted emotionally sensitive right brain doesn't
seem to have given you is even the slightest vestige of a sense of
humour.

Yeah, right!

I think you may take yourself a teensy bit too seriously.

Yeah, right!

But hey, 10/10 for coming to the aid of your fallen comrade. ;-)


But I'm not his comrade.

sigh, 'comrade' in the light of that particular discussion.

I agree with you politically.

I didn't think I was 'political'? ;-)

I like to think that is tongue in cheek, though on the one hand you
claim to sit on the fence, and on the other take pleasure abusing Brexiters.

(I am in
favour of the EU, which is fundamentally your position though you won't
admit it.

Probably because it isn't true Roger? I'm not 'in favour' of either
choice, I can't be because I'm not sure what the leave choice (and the
only 'choice' as such, remaining was simply what we had / have
already) actually means yet?

Proof of the pudding is in the eating. If your not in favour of 'either'
choice, prove it by abusing Remoaners.

I dislike single issue referenda - it would be easy to get
whoever is currently victim of the tabloids' ire hanged in one.)

Ok, we agree on that bit at least. ;-)

But
why must you set yourself up as being especially empathic

I'm not 'especially empathetic', I'm just not as un-empathetic as some
here (on the subject of Brexit)?

when your
posts demonstrate as much dogmatism, intolerance and lack of
consideration for others' point of view as any of the rest of us?

Do they though? Ok,

Yes, they do.

I'll admit to 'playing' some of the more fanatic
Brexiteers because I really can't take them seriously ... but I have
full respect for any POV, when it's clear it was born out of fact,
logic or common sense ... and when it's obvious that they are willing
to be honest and reasonable themselves.

Then prove your sitting on the fence by abusing Remoaners who regularly
denigrate Brexiters rather than being one.

On 17/02/2018 12:12, Fredxx wrote:
It's a typical Remoaner trait to live
in the past using outdated theories.

Its you that wants to go back to the past!
You should think before posting.


Perhaps you should move forward too, and embrace Brexit?

Maybe you should forget the past and move to the present and beyond?

On 17/02/2018 12:27, dennis@home wrote:
On 17/02/2018 12:12, Fredxx wrote:
It's a typical Remoaner trait to live in the past using outdated
theories.

Its you that wants to go back to the past!
You should think before posting.


Perhaps you should move forward too, and embrace Brexit?

Maybe you should forget the past and move to the present and beyond?

Oh I am, I am embracing change. Perhaps you should try it too.

In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
A theory that has been debunked. It's a typical Remoaner trait to live
in the past using outdated theories.

Really? So all those who wish to go back to when Britain ruled the waves
are remainers? All the talk about trade with the old commonwealth
countries?

Perhaps you should move forward too, and embrace Brexit?

Most who embark on a new journey these days will have a map of some sort.
There are no Americas to be discovered now.

--
*Save the whale - I'll have it for my supper*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 17/02/2018 12:27, dennis@home wrote:
On 17/02/2018 12:12, Fredxx wrote:
It's a typical Remoaner trait to live in the past using outdated
theories.

Its you that wants to go back to the past!
You should think before posting.


Perhaps you should move forward too, and embrace Brexit?

Maybe you should forget the past and move to the present and beyond?

Oh I am, I am embracing change. Perhaps you should try it too.

Keep on asking about this change. You've already said you don't want to
look to history of any sort. So must have a vision of the way forward.

Sadly, we all tend to know of someone who sees visions.

--
*If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving definitely isn't for you *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 17/02/2018 12:38, Fredxx wrote:
On 17/02/2018 12:27, dennis@home wrote:
On 17/02/2018 12:12, Fredxx wrote:
It's a typical Remoaner trait to live in the past using outdated
theories.

Its you that wants to go back to the past!
You should think before posting.


Perhaps you should move forward too, and embrace Brexit?

Maybe you should forget the past and move to the present and beyond?

Oh I am, I am embracing change. Perhaps you should try it too.


I am embracing change, I expect the EU to change, you want to go back to
how it was in the past.
You can't claim to embrace change when you obviously want to avoid the
changes that are happening and go back to the past.

--
Don't try to pull such obvious cons as you will be found out.

On 17/02/18 12:10, Fredxx wrote:
On 17/02/2018 08:51, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 23:21:38 +0000, (Roger Hayter)
wrote:

Fredxx wrote:
snip

I was always told the left side had the logic, and right side didn't.
Tim must therefore be right sided.

I see what you mean then.Â* True, he doesn't appear to accept that
corollary of his position.Â* I think he secretly suspects that he reaches
the conclusions he does because he simply has a *better* brain than the
rest of us.

And yet another classic 'left brainer' reply.

Are you suggesting it was a logical reply? Perhaps you are too wrapped
up in emotion and your creative side with making things up as you go along?

You know what it is, peole who lack quality X AND self esteem always
claim that quality X 'isn't everything' and in fact they are different
and superior because they have quality Y...

Anyone who has been married understands this.

T i m is very effeminate ... so he makes a virtue of it.

Pore Ole T i m.



--
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

On Sun, 11 Feb 2018 18:09:42 +0000, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Feb 2018 14:56:05 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
Is the current vogue for every young person gaining a meja degree
actually doing any good for the country?

No, In my view a lot of the people coming out of Uni with degree's are
filling jobs that have not traditionally required that level of
qualification.

Even more to the point, traditional skills like plumbing, electrics
mechanics etc that were once acquired via an apprenticeship seem to be
looked down upon by many. Resulting in those skills having to be imported
from other countries where blue collar jobs are still desired.


You could also blame industry. Why waste profits training staff when you
can get the taxpayer to do it? No point in planning for the future, when
there are present day shareholders to be satisfied.

I agree totally, I would add though that there is another common
approach by employers in the UK, that is a reluctance to train workers
because they will then go to join a competitor, thus wasting the
investment.

But it has been common for a very long time for people not to stay
long in their first job. They can usually get higher wages and
promotion more easily by moving companies.

--
insert witty sig here

On Sun, 11 Feb 2018 19:25:34 +0000, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Feb 2018 18:47:36 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
I agree totally, I would add though that there is another common
approach by employers in the UK, that is a reluctance to train workers
because they will then go to join a competitor, thus wasting the
investment.

If they go to a competitor, the firm needs to look at its pay and
conditions of service, etc.

That's what you would assume, but a large number of employers just go
down the dont train route.

A very short-sighted approach IMHO. We can't rely on a system where
no training is done otherwise companies won't be able to recruit
qualified workers.

--
insert witty sig here

In article ,
Mark wrote:
On Sun, 11 Feb 2018 19:25:34 +0000, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Feb 2018 18:47:36 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
I agree totally, I would add though that there is another common
approach by employers in the UK, that is a reluctance to train workers
because they will then go to join a competitor, thus wasting the
investment.

If they go to a competitor, the firm needs to look at its pay and
conditions of service, etc.

That's what you would assume, but a large number of employers just go
down the dont train route.

A very short-sighted approach IMHO. We can't rely on a system where
no training is done otherwise companies won't be able to recruit
qualified workers.

But short termism is the UK way. Never spend a penny on training etc if
you think you can just poach a trained person from elsewhere.

Rather negative thinking. Ignore any benefits of training just in case you
might lose out on the odd one or two.

--
*A woman drove me to drink and I didn't have the decency to thank her

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 12:09:15 +0000, Fredxx wrote:

On 17/02/2018 09:02, T i m wrote:
On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 03:01:47 +0000, Fredxx wrote:

On 16/02/2018 23:21, Roger Hayter wrote:
snip

I was always told the left side had the logic, and right side didn't.
Tim must therefore be right sided.

I see what you mean then. True, he doesn't appear to accept that
corollary of his position. I think he secretly suspects that he reaches
the conclusions he does because he simply has a *better* brain than the
rest of us.

That does seem to be a common Remoaner feature.

If you are talking about those people who voted Remain (I am
respectful enough to refer to you as Brexiteers and not Brexsh1teers)
then you could well be right.

A Remoaner will abuse a Brexiter calling him names and proffering abuse
to his like.

Are you sure that's because he's just a Brexiteer or just a deluded
fool?

You are this definition of a Remoaner until you stop using
terms to denigrate those who support Brexit.

I don't. I denigrate those who do so with 100% conviction but with 0%
fact to back their opinions, beliefs or fantasies up.

When you end your obsession
with left/right brainer

Not an obsession mate, a handy tool for differentiating those who care
for and about their fellow citizens and those who don't.

and incorrect implications towards Brexiters,

See above. Brexiteers I have little issue with (as they will admit
they are as much in the dark about the final outcome as any of us)
it's the fanatical arrogant left brained nutjobs I denigrate.

you will be no longer referred to as a Remoaner, or lumped in with this
group.

Awww, 'thanks'. (But no thanks, I'll stick where I am ... and a lovely
example of a left brainer at work BTW).

Let's say a 'right brainer' has a higher EQ than a 'left brainer' then
'of course' it's likely that a right brainer might be more willing /
interested to consider 'the will of the people', and not some
arbitrarily created process / threshold that is blatantly obvious to a
right brainer to be bogus (especially for that job).

You can say whatever you like about brain sidedness, the overall belief,
wrong or otherwise is left is for logic.

In your left-brained opinion I'm guessing?

https://www.healthline.com/health/le...t-brain-theory
https://www.verywellmind.com/left-br...-brain-2795005

And I quote from one article "Researchers have demonstrated that
right-brain/left-brain theory is a myth, yet its popularity persists.

I'll raise your left brainer BS (unread) with some science:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3767540/

Why? Unfortunately, many people are likely unaware that the theory is
outdated."

And as we still don't have a cure for the common cold or fully
understand how the brain works, you can believe what you like (as your
*belief system* seems to be better than mine, as you demonstrate with
your opinion on Brexit).

Your obsession of the left/right brainers can only be a right brainer,
Remoaner infatuation.

Aww, princess! ;-)

You seem most bitter you didn't vote for remain.

Of course I do, left brainer.

At least MM and Mark
Clayton voted for their convictions.

Good for them. Unfortunately my crystal ball wasn't working that day
so *I* couldn't vote.

However, *none* of this get's you any closer to answering the basic
questions, the questions no Brexiteer would try to answer (because
they know there isn't 'an answer' (yet especially)) and the fanatic
Brexiteers who think they know the answers but can't possibly (of I'm
guessing the governments of many countries would be coming to you for
answers).

Three ... simple ... questions.

1) What things do you think your (personal) leave vote included.

2) Re 1), How many of them do you think you will get?

3) Re 2), Of the things you get, how soft / hard do you think they
will end up being? (with 1 being soft and 10 being hard).

Cummon, you are telling us you have all the answers (allowing you to
vote leave with such certainty), put your money where you mouth is!


Cheers, T i m

On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 12:16:58 +0000, Fredxx wrote:

snip

I didn't think I was 'political'? ;-)

I like to think that is tongue in cheek,

Reinforcing again your left brainer inability to see the truth when
it's typed in front of you, because of your preconceptions. ;-(

though on the one hand you
claim to sit on the fence,

I don't 'claim' any such thing, it's where I am.

and on the other take pleasure abusing Brexiters.

No I don't. I 'abuse' (if that's how you see anyone standing their
ground against abuse themselves) anyone who spouts guesses as if they
are fact ... and attack others for not having the same view as them.
We know *why* the fanatical Brexiteers do so of course, it's to do
with how they are wired.


(I am in
favour of the EU, which is fundamentally your position though you won't
admit it.

Probably because it isn't true Roger? I'm not 'in favour' of either
choice, I can't be because I'm not sure what the leave choice (and the
only 'choice' as such, remaining was simply what we had / have
already) actually means yet?

Proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Of course, even if it turns out to be poisonous (and you have *no
idea* that it isn't.

If your not in favour of 'either'
choice, prove it by abusing Remoaners.

Aww, princess. Here is an idea then ... instead of just spouting your
opinions or fantasies ... give us some facts. What things did you vote
for that you *know* you will get and how *exactly* doing such *will*
make 'most people' in the UK better off?If you can't say what, or if
it turns out to be wrong, it (not me) will prove you are just a
reckless gambler gambling with other peoples lives and money.

I dislike single issue referenda - it would be easy to get
whoever is currently victim of the tabloids' ire hanged in one.)

Ok, we agree on that bit at least. ;-)

But
why must you set yourself up as being especially empathic

I'm not 'especially empathetic', I'm just not as un-empathetic as some
here (on the subject of Brexit)?

when your
posts demonstrate as much dogmatism, intolerance and lack of
consideration for others' point of view as any of the rest of us?

Do they though? Ok,

Yes, they do.

shrug

I'll admit to 'playing' some of the more fanatic
Brexiteers because I really can't take them seriously ... but I have
full respect for any POV, when it's clear it was born out of fact,
logic or common sense ... and when it's obvious that they are willing
to be honest and reasonable themselves.

Then prove your sitting on the fence by abusing Remoaners who regularly
denigrate Brexiters rather than being one.

Mate, if you don't 'get' why I couldn't vote then and still can't now
you have demonstrated a left brainer in action better than I ever
could.

Deal, I'll get off the fence and support the leave campaign when you
answer all my questions and with substantive proof of all of it.
Anything less will show you up for the bs'ing chancer I believe you to
be.

Cheers, T i m

On Saturday, 17 February 2018 09:15:51 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 23:43:10 -0800 (PST), tabbypurr wrote:

snip

I see what you mean then. True, he doesn't appear to accept that
corollary of his position. I think he secretly suspects that he reaches
the conclusions he does because he simply has a *better* brain than the
rest of us.

it's no secret, and yet his arguments are junk.

Mate, please try to start a new paragraph or sentence with a capital
letter, not doing so makes you look 'uneducated' (and not the same
thing as spelling, grammar (both within reason) or punctuation (other
than the likes of whisky-dave using a semicolon instead of an
apostrophe).

So, 'my arguments are junk', IYHO I'm guessing?

Imagine you are a spectator here and you see me asking you the
question of 'What did you vote on, what of what you voted on do you
think you are going to get and at what level', and you never
completely answering that, what would you think?

They are genuine questions and are asked because I'm trying to see how
you were able to be in a position that I'm not, and that how you seem
convinced that us leaving the EU *will* make things better for 'most
people' and as yet, I don't think we have actually seen an answer to
that, just a list of people hopes and dreams (ideology)?

If I were that spectator I would see the questions as reasonable and
the lack of accurate and tangible replies as 'junk'?

The thing is, you, along with all the other fanatic Brexiteers *know*
you can't actually answer those questions because like the very people
trying to force this farce though (our government), *no one* has the
answers yet. This means that we all (who voted) voted blind, something
I can't be a part of if it's supposed to be something that is supposed
to be the best for 'the people'.

Cheers, T i m

p.s. Did you know that if we leave the EU we can't be full members of
Interpol? Again, they are going to try to arrange some 'special'
arrangement with us, like dealing with some spoilt child. I'm pretty
sure that's not 'a good thing', especially considering how the world
is going these days. ;-(

more bs then

On Saturday, 17 February 2018 09:19:17 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 00:25:31 -0800 (PST), tabbypurr wrote:

snip

But hey, 10/10 for coming to the aid of your fallen comrade. ;-)


this is a small selection of the childishness that makes such discussions a waste of time.

Hey, who is lacking a sense of humour now eh, left brainer?

humour has nothing to do with it as everyone knows
Man you talk too much crap

On Saturday, 17 February 2018 12:09:22 UTC, Fredxx wrote:
On 17/02/2018 09:02, T i m wrote:
On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 03:01:47 +0000, Fredxx wrote:
On 16/02/2018 23:21, Roger Hayter wrote:
snip

I see what you mean then. True, he doesn't appear to accept that
corollary of his position. I think he secretly suspects that he reaches
the conclusions he does because he simply has a *better* brain than the
rest of us.

That does seem to be a common Remoaner feature.

If you are talking about those people who voted Remain (I am
respectful enough to refer to you as Brexiteers and not Brexsh1teers)
then you could well be right.

A Remoaner will abuse a Brexiter calling him names and proffering abuse
to his like. You are this definition of a Remoaner until you stop using
terms to denigrate those who support Brexit. When you end your obsession
with left/right brainer and incorrect implications towards Brexiters,
you will be no longer referred to as a Remoaner, or lumped in with this
group.

If he could put sensible points in a grown up way they might be worth discussing. Far too much childishness & stupidity for me.


NT

On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 14:32:54 -0800 (PST), wrote:

snip

p.s. Did you know that if we leave the EU we can't be full members of
Interpol? Again, they are going to try to arrange some 'special'
arrangement with us, like dealing with some spoilt child. I'm pretty
sure that's not 'a good thing', especially considering how the world
is going these days. ;-(

more bs then

So it seems ... but we hardly went into it with our eyes open did we
.... you lot just had your fingers crossed. ;-(

Anyway and talking of BS, I thought you killfiled me?

Cheers, T i m

On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 14:42:27 -0800 (PST), wrote:

snip

If he could put sensible points in a grown up way they might be worth discussing.

How would you know, you killfiled me. How grownup of you!

Far too much childishness & stupidity for me.

What, like *saying* you have killfiled someone but not?

And you *still* haven't answered my second and third questions ...

I'll repeat them as I know how selective your memory can be:

1) What did you think / expect your Leave vote to actually represent?

2) What facets of your vote hopes to you actually think you will get
(when they finally agree a deal)?

3) Of the facets you actually get, how diluted do you think they will
be (where 1 = soft Brexit, 10 = hard).

Real, straight, adult, serious questions that every Remainer would be
keen to hear the replies to.

Cheers, T i m

On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 14:34:06 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Saturday, 17 February 2018 09:19:17 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 00:25:31 -0800 (PST), tabbypurr wrote:

snip

But hey, 10/10 for coming to the aid of your fallen comrade. ;-)


this is a small selection of the childishness that makes such discussions a waste of time.

Hey, who is lacking a sense of humour now eh, left brainer?

humour has nothing to do with it

It does for me ... you fanatical Brexiteers do make me laugh!

as everyone knows
Man you talk too much crap

Talking of talking crap, how the repairs coming along to your killfile
then?


Cheers, T i m

"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Feb 2018 18:09:42 +0000, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Feb 2018 14:56:05 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
Is the current vogue for every young person gaining a meja degree
actually doing any good for the country?

No, In my view a lot of the people coming out of Uni with degree's are
filling jobs that have not traditionally required that level of
qualification.

Even more to the point, traditional skills like plumbing, electrics
mechanics etc that were once acquired via an apprenticeship seem to be
looked down upon by many. Resulting in those skills having to be imported
from other countries where blue collar jobs are still desired.


You could also blame industry. Why waste profits training staff when you
can get the taxpayer to do it? No point in planning for the future, when
there are present day shareholders to be satisfied.

I agree totally, I would add though that there is another common
approach by employers in the UK, that is a reluctance to train workers
because they will then go to join a competitor, thus wasting the
investment.

But it has been common for a very long time for people not to stay
long in their first job. They can usually get higher wages and
promotion more easily by moving companies.

Before I started freelancing, I jumped jobs a few times

In every case it was not because I wasn't being paid enough

It was because the current employer was not giving me a "career"
opportunity", they just expected that as a junior engineered I would just go
on being a junior engineer doing the same dull, lowest rung on the ladder,
job forever.

tim

On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 16:43:42 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
And you don't understand that without the vote of those in depressed areas
of the UK, Brexit would not have been carried. And they voted on a lie
from the likes of Farage that leaving would improve their lot.

There was no lie. No more than those in Project Fear.

So pray tell what is being done to help provide decent jobs in those
areas? Apart from plenty talk, of course.

Nothing, of course. Right now businesses are relocating to where they
can get workers, rather than trying to recruit in the UK, since they
can't.

And then explain just how leaving the EU will make things better for them?

It won't.

Perhaps if there was more economic and infrastructure uniformity over
the UK Brexit may never have happened. I expect in those areas wages
hadn't risen either over the previous 10 years or so.

They've not risen in real terms anywhere. Exactly what a good Tory wants.
A few are very much richer, but the majority not. The main aim of
capitalism.

Brexit may benefit a few very rich people, but most will lose out.

--
insert witty sig here

On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 12:09:15 +0000, Fredxx wrote:

On 17/02/2018 09:02, T i m wrote:
On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 03:01:47 +0000, Fredxx wrote:

On 16/02/2018 23:21, Roger Hayter wrote:
snip

I was always told the left side had the logic, and right side didn't.
Tim must therefore be right sided.

I see what you mean then. True, he doesn't appear to accept that
corollary of his position. I think he secretly suspects that he reaches
the conclusions he does because he simply has a *better* brain than the
rest of us.

That does seem to be a common Remoaner feature.

If you are talking about those people who voted Remain (I am
respectful enough to refer to you as Brexiteers and not Brexsh1teers)
then you could well be right.

A Remoaner will abuse a Brexiter calling him names and proffering abuse
to his like. You are this definition of a Remoaner until you stop using
terms to denigrate those who support Brexit. When you end your obsession
with left/right brainer and incorrect implications towards Brexiters,
you will be no longer referred to as a Remoaner, or lumped in with this
group.

Your use of the term "Remoaner" says much more about you than T i m.
Although low-grade the word is abusive and suggests you don't believe
anyone who disagrees with you has a right to their opinion. This is
inherently undemocratic, so I must assume you are opposed to
democracy.

Let's talk some statistics to look at the consequences of the vote:
- New car purchases dropped due to the uncertainty.
- Companies relocating out of the UK.
- Inflation up.
- Consumer spending falling.

--
insert witty sig here

On 18/02/18 16:47, Mark wrote:
Brexit may benefit a few very rich people, but most will lose out.
Brexit may harm most rich people but evertyone else will benfit mightily


--
"If you dont read the news paper, you are un-informed. If you read the
news paper, you are mis-informed."

Mark Twain

On 18/02/18 16:57, Mark wrote:
Let's talk some statistics to look at the consequences of the vote:
- New car purchases dropped due to the uncertainty.
- Companies relocating out of the UK.
- Inflation up.
- Consumer spending falling.

But everyone feeling much happier


--
"If you dont read the news paper, you are un-informed. If you read the
news paper, you are mis-informed."

Mark Twain

On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 09:57:41 -0000, "tim..."
wrote:



"Mark" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 11 Feb 2018 18:09:42 +0000, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Feb 2018 14:56:05 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
Is the current vogue for every young person gaining a meja degree
actually doing any good for the country?

No, In my view a lot of the people coming out of Uni with degree's are
filling jobs that have not traditionally required that level of
qualification.

Even more to the point, traditional skills like plumbing, electrics
mechanics etc that were once acquired via an apprenticeship seem to be
looked down upon by many. Resulting in those skills having to be imported
from other countries where blue collar jobs are still desired.


You could also blame industry. Why waste profits training staff when you
can get the taxpayer to do it? No point in planning for the future, when
there are present day shareholders to be satisfied.

I agree totally, I would add though that there is another common
approach by employers in the UK, that is a reluctance to train workers
because they will then go to join a competitor, thus wasting the
investment.

But it has been common for a very long time for people not to stay
long in their first job. They can usually get higher wages and
promotion more easily by moving companies.

Before I started freelancing, I jumped jobs a few times

In every case it was not because I wasn't being paid enough

Same here. It was down to poor working conditions and boring work.

--
insert witty sig here

On Sun, 11 Feb 2018 22:54:47 +0000, Fredxx wrote:

On 11/02/2018 12:47, T i m wrote:

I wouldn't have called myself fanatical, 99.9% of Brexiters.

Does anyone call themselves fanatical?

But I'm not sure you would be in a position to judge that.

Maybe not. I have my reasons for supporting Brexit and have given them
here numerous times. I'm no so fanatical I have joined in or paid any
subscription to further Brexit.


Fair enough, but I see no need for Brexiters to be called thick or any
other negative quantity.

I would call Brexiters deluded.

Many remainers come out as poor losers.

With Brexit we'll (nearly) all be losers.

Many
remainers have embraced the will of the British people and moved on. My
reference to Remoaners are to those who haven't moved forward and would
with to thwart Brexit against the will of the electorate.

A wafer-thin "majority" is not the will of the people.

I note you snipped that for every 100 remain votes there were 108 Brexit
votes.

See above.

And what do you think the 'limited movement of labour' is going to do?
It's foxes and rabbits out there mate, if there are no jobs then there
won't be people 'migrating (not immigrating note) to fill them.

Then the laws of supply and demand take over.

Yes, I just said that ...

And therefore we can expect an increase in wages.

If only. With many companies relocating out of the UK we can expect a
reduction in wages.

A great deal, it means you don't understand the consequence of
immigration of wages.

Negligable, compared with the negative effects of Brexit.


Do you deny the current housing shortage hasn't had an effect on the
Brexit vote?

Maybe. However there is no guarantee that the housing shortage will
improve.

Precisely. Many will never be able to own a house for so long. When was
the last time you knew a NQT purchase their house in the first year
after qualifying?

Brexit will do nothing to help NQTs.

See above. If you can sell every house you build, why aren't all the
developers jumping on the bandwagon?

Because they are land-grabbing. They are buying up land, getting
planning permission to build, but are waiting as they expect house
prices to rise, and hence they can make more profit that way.

Because no party showed the will to sort out the housing problem. As you
said earlier we should never believe politicians, hence Brexit.

So don't believe Boris or Farage.

--
insert witty sig here

On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 17:22:20 +0000, Mark
wrote:

snip


A great deal, it means you don't understand the consequence of
immigration of wages.

Negligable, compared with the negative effects of Brexit.

The problem we have here is that it has been proven that FredXX often
states misinformation as if it was fact.

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/work...e-from-britain

Basically it says:

"There seems to be a broad consensus among academics that the share of
immigrants in the workforce has little or no effect on native wages."

So yet more BS from FredXX. ;-(


Do you deny the current housing shortage hasn't had an effect on the
Brexit vote?

Maybe. However there is no guarantee that the housing shortage will
improve.

It was actually caused as a knock on of the banks crash / recession.

Precisely. Many will never be able to own a house for so long. When was
the last time you knew a NQT purchase their house in the first year
after qualifying?

Brexit will do nothing to help NQTs.

See above. If you can sell every house you build, why aren't all the
developers jumping on the bandwagon?

Because they are land-grabbing. They are buying up land, getting
planning permission to build, but are waiting as they expect house
prices to rise, and hence they can make more profit that way.

*Exactly*.

Because no party showed the will to sort out the housing problem. As you
said earlier we should never believe politicians, hence Brexit.

So don't believe Boris or Farage.

Or FredXX!

Cheers, T i m

On 18/02/2018 17:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/02/18 16:57, Mark wrote:
Let's talk some statistics to look at the consequences of the vote:
- New car purchases dropped due to the uncertainty.
- Companies relocating out of the UK.
- Inflation up.
- Consumer spending falling.

But everyone feeling much happier



You are in cloud cuckoo land if you think that is true.



At least 30% aren't happier.

Mind you things are getting better, it looks like brexit in name only
will be the worst that can happen and that we may stay.

On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 20:16:49 +0000, "dennis@home"
wrote:

On 18/02/2018 17:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/02/18 16:57, Mark wrote:
Let's talk some statistics to look at the consequences of the vote:
- New car purchases dropped due to the uncertainty.
- Companies relocating out of the UK.
- Inflation up.
- Consumer spending falling.

But everyone feeling much happier



You are in cloud cuckoo land if you think that is true.

He is because he (actually) does. ;-(



At least 30% aren't happier.

Quire, potentially a lot more ATM, including many of the (non
fanatic) Brexiteers.

Mind you things are getting better, it looks like brexit in name only
will be the worst that can happen and that we may stay.

What a mess though. Talk about 'trying to make a silk purse out of a
sows ear'.

How much easier it would all be if say 2/3rds of the electorate
actually supported it and we actually knew what 'it' was!

Once the 'it' was pinned down (with some red lines and priorities etc)
the government would be in a much better position to negotiate 'on our
behalf' as they would know we were actually behind it in principal.

But that boat has sailed (and been left with the wheel just tied off)
and so the next best thing (and what we should have done in the first
place of course) is have the referendum as it should be and that's an
'opinion poll' and if 2/3rds of the electorate say 'yes, let's look
into it', then that's what we do, actually voting on the final result
for real.

That all sounds perfectly reasonable and democratic to me, but then
I'm not on any crusade and would like to think any decision was made
on good information and actually represented the 'will of the people'.

Cheers, T i m

In article ,
Mark wrote:
But it has been common for a very long time for people not to stay
long in their first job. They can usually get higher wages and
promotion more easily by moving companies.

Before I started freelancing, I jumped jobs a few times

In every case it was not because I wasn't being paid enough

Same here. It was down to poor working conditions and boring work.

Exactly why tube drivers are well paid. ;-)

--
*If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

in 1669881 20180218 170209 The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/02/18 16:47, Mark wrote:
Brexit may benefit a few very rich people, but most will lose out.
Brexit may harm most rich people but evertyone else will benfit mightily

Turnip gets it arse-about-face as usual.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 18/02/2018 17:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/02/18 16:57, Mark wrote:
Let's talk some statistics to look at the consequences of the vote:
- New car purchases dropped due to the uncertainty.
- Companies relocating out of the UK.
- Inflation up.
- Consumer spending falling.

But everyone feeling much happier



You are in cloud cuckoo land if you think that is true.



At least 30% aren't happier.

Mind you things are getting better, it looks like brexit in name only will
be the worst that can happen

you are right

Brexit in name only will be the worst thing that can happen

1000 times worse than staying in

and that we may stay.

only if you naively believe that the EU will not (try to) extract an even
bigger price for this

tim

On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 00:12:43 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Mark wrote:
But it has been common for a very long time for people not to stay
long in their first job. They can usually get higher wages and
promotion more easily by moving companies.

Before I started freelancing, I jumped jobs a few times

In every case it was not because I wasn't being paid enough

Same here. It was down to poor working conditions and boring work.

Exactly why tube drivers are well paid. ;-)

As an aside and whilst I get the thought, has anyone here been a tube
driver to be able to say just how 'boring' it is (or isn't)?

Ok, I can understand how when observed from a job some might consider
'interesting', we are all different (psychometric profile) and
therefore would be 'entertained' by different things.

So, from a day-to-day POV I guess it's fundamentally fairly
straightforward but do they have rotas and rosters that mean they
could be driving different routes, either daily or occasionally?

Whilst 'most trips' are uneventful (certainly as seen by the
passengers), who knows what may have happened and was 'dealt with' by
the driver ... be it a signaling issue, minor malfunction or summat
else?

Or how would 'most people' deal with a jumper ... or some terrorist
action on their train?

Whilst there are accidents at work ... operating heavy machinery etc
you are probably more likely to only hurt yourself because you screw
up, rather than be hurt as a result of other peoples actions.
Similarly, I wouldn't think most blue collar workers are responsible
for thousands of peoples lives, every singe working day. That might
make the job 'interesting' to some?

And of course, for some people, 'trains' or even public transport in
general is something they love to be involved in, sometimes at any
level, with a 'driver' being the top of their list. ;-)

And then there is the 'community'. Such workers are usually in groups,
teams or gangs and often build up very good, strong and lifelong
relationships with their fellow workers.

I think it's deffo 'a career', rather than just 'a job' for most of
them.

Just thinking out loud ... ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 19/02/18 08:38, Bob Martin wrote:
in 1669881 20180218 170209 The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/02/18 16:47, Mark wrote:
Brexit may benefit a few very rich people, but most will lose out.
Brexit may harm most rich people but evertyone else will benfit mightily

Turnip gets it arse-about-face as usual.

Turnip gets its spot on as usual.

Do you REALLY think that the whole weight of the media and the state
propaganda machines would be all against brexit if a lot of rich people
were NOT going to lose out?

Does Gina Miller look poor to you?

Hoew much will YOU lose personally?

How much are you neing paid to oppose Brexit?



--
Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have
guns, why should we let them have ideas?

Josef Stalin

On 19/02/18 09:51, tim... wrote:
Brexit in name only will be the worst thing that can happen

1000 times worse than staying in

That is, of course, the Plan....
,
--
Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have
guns, why should we let them have ideas?

Josef Stalin

In article ,
T i m wrote:
Exactly why tube drivers are well paid. ;-)

As an aside and whilst I get the thought, has anyone here been a tube
driver to be able to say just how 'boring' it is (or isn't)?

Not me. But I know one who currently is, and one who was and moved into
management. The only reason the one who currently still does it is for the
money.

--
*Is there another word for synonym?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Turnip gets it arse-about-face as usual.

Turnip gets its spot on as usual.

Do you REALLY think that the whole weight of the media and the state
propaganda machines would be all against brexit if a lot of rich people
were NOT going to lose out?

Ah - right. Good to know you don't believe in that trickle down nonsense.
Also good to know you think something good for the rich cannot be good for
the less well off.
Progress at last. But surely those are left wing sentiments?

Which face are you using today?

--
*Constipated People Don't Give A Crap*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 10:39:43 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 19/02/18 09:51, tim... wrote:
Brexit in name only will be the worst thing that can happen

1000 times worse than staying in

That is, of course, the Plan....
,

That is, of course, a handy get out if Brexit falls flat on it's face
if it turns out the final deal *isn't* the will of the people ... or
if it limps though and costs us all (more of) a fortune. It would have
done so because it was scuppered, not just because it was a poorly
thought out and implement idea fantasy for a minority.

Cheers, T i m

On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 11:02:39 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
Exactly why tube drivers are well paid. ;-)

As an aside and whilst I get the thought, has anyone here been a tube
driver to be able to say just how 'boring' it is (or isn't)?

Not me. But I know one who currently is, and one who was and moved into
management.

Sometimes the way, especially after a time in service or if they have
some health issues.

The only reason the one who currently still does it is for the
money.

I guess there will be people doing it 'for the money' at the outset
and / or maybe times are changing?

Cheers, T i m

On Saturday, 17 February 2018 08:27:41 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 22:43:39 +0000, Fredxx wrote:

snip

It is Tim who has the fetish with left/right sided brain.

It's not a fetish, I find the general theory around brain
lateralization to be a handy tool to help understand why some think
and do as they do and therefore why some say and do such strange (to
someone opposite to them) things.

So try reading about it and understanding it.

http://brainmadesimple.com/left-and-...mispheres.html


Like, most of the fanatic Brexiteers don't just think us leaving the
EU could or might be 'a good idea', they are absolutely /
unconditionally convinced that we *will* and they seem to be
completely oblivious of the other ~50% of the electorate who actively
voted against them and the 2/3rs of the electorate who didn't vote
with them?

what sort of ****ing idiot would suggest that those that don't vote one way or the other should be counted as voting.


I was always told the left side had the logic, and right side didn't.

Yes, that's the (very( general idea but it's not as black and white as
that (left brainer g). We are talking 'dominance',


the concept that
whilst both brain hemispheres can and do duplicate each other on many
many things, just like most people have a preferred 'hand' and would
have a lead or dominant eye, they would also have a dominant brain
hemisphere.

That's why if you have a stroke in one side or another you can loose
your speech or motor functions on one side of your body but much of
the loss can be recovered with 'therapy to help the non-dominant
hemisphere better pick up the pieces etc.

Nothing to do with one side being dominant that's not how the brain works.


Tim must therefore be right sided.

It would be 'right brain dominant' and I think you could be right.

yes the left side being logical, yep makes sense lets decide what those that didn't vote actually wanted to vote for if they could be bothered to vote..
Left side is also numerical which is why you are so confused by the result thinking 1/3rd voted to leave 1/3 voted to remain and 1/3rd that didn't vote also wanted to remain that's why they didn't vote.

Yes the RH brained uses imagination rather than logic.
you imagine that all thos ethat didn't voted wanted to remain.



A mate who has looked into this in some depth has a general scale
where 0 would be whatever is considered 'neutral', where both brain
hemispheres are fairly balanced (re the tasks that aren't hemisphere
specific).

He rates anyone right brain dominant as being on a scale of +1 to +5,
where a +1 is a typical woman and a +5 would be a quivering mass of
emotion. A 'left brainer' would be on the scale of -1 to -5 where a -1
is a typical man and a -5, a(n emotional) robot.

no one realy gives a **** what your mate thinks.




He has been with his wife for many years and he has been unhappy for
much of the time.

Maybe his thought processes are screwed and that is the reason beciuase he gets everything wrong.

Most of the time the issues were masked by 'life',
getting engage, getting married, buying a house, having children etc.

Now the kids have left home, from his POV it's as if he's just
co-habiting with someone, he wants more and she seem completely
unaware of his (emotional) needs.

So he married the wrong person or took the wroing route in life is he a remainer too ?
why are yuo taking notice of someone telling yuo how he thinks the world works when he can't even sort his own life out !.



So, he has concluded she (unusually for a woman) is a left brainer and
he (again, unusually for a man) is a right brainer.

There;s no such things.

https://www.livescience.com/39373-le...rain-myth.html

It's the foundation of myriad personality assessment tests, self-motivation books and team-building exercises €“ and it's all bunk.

Popular culture would have you believe that logical, methodical and analytical people are left-brain dominant, while the creative and artistic types are right-brain dominant. Trouble is, science never really supported this notion.

Now, scientists at the University of Utah have debunked the myth with an analysis of more than 1,000 brains. They found no evidence that people preferentially use their left or right brain. All of the study participants €” and no doubt the scientists €” were using their entire brain equally, throughout the course of the experiment.

______________________________________