Can you put a mains socket in a cupboard inside a bathroom?

Would be handy for connecting my washing machine, which is in the bathroom. Cupboard door is about 9" from basin, 3ft from toilet and 4'3" from bath.

"Eusebius" wrote in message
...
Can you put a mains socket in a cupboard inside a bathroom?

Would be handy for connecting my washing machine, which is in the
bathroom. Cupboard door is about 9" from basin, 3ft from toilet and 4'3"
from bath.

that old chestnut...no but it is coming so I was told years ago ....

On Wednesday, 30 November 2016 12:22:29 UTC, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
"Eusebius" wrote in message
...
Can you put a mains socket in a cupboard inside a bathroom?

Would be handy for connecting my washing machine, which is in the
bathroom. Cupboard door is about 9" from basin, 3ft from toilet and 4'3"
from bath.

that old chestnut...no but it is coming so I was told years ago ....

When my french flatmate complained that there was no socket in the bathroom
for her to plug her hairdryer in she then asked me for an extention lead, I said yuo;r not talking one into the bathroom it's illegal in the UK, she said I'm french so your laws aren't for me or words to that effect.
So I said **** off then.

that old chestnut...no but it is coming so I was told years ago ....

When my french flatmate complained that there was no socket in the bathroom
for her to plug her hairdryer in she then asked me for an extention lead, I said yuo;r not talking one into the bathroom it's illegal in the UK, she said I'm french so your laws aren't for me or words to that effect.
So I said **** off then.

Extension lead in bathroom..... whoa!

So not allowed at present. Drill hole in wall it seems and take the mains cable outside to the hallway wall. .

In article ,
Eusebius wrote:
Can you put a mains socket in a cupboard inside a bathroom?

Would be handy for connecting my washing machine, which is in the
bathroom. Cupboard door is about 9" from basin, 3ft from toilet and 4'3"
from bath.

I have four of them inside the cupboard that contains the hot water
cylinder. ;-) But they are RCD protected. Shelf under them to place things
on charge. Can't stand seeing such things lying around plugged into the
shaver socket.

--
*Rehab is for quitters

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 30/11/2016 12:14, Eusebius wrote:
Can you put a mains socket in a cupboard inside a bathroom?

Would be handy for connecting my washing machine, which is in the bathroom. Cupboard door is about 9" from basin, 3ft from toilet and 4'3" from bath.


The sockets are a legal no-no (I have some in mine, though) But
surely a Fixed connection unit, so that it is permanently wired and
cannot be unplugged, would be legal? After all that is what most
electric towel rails and heaters have, and a permanently wired solution
is legal for those.

On Wednesday, 30 November 2016 14:28:40 UTC, MrCheerful wrote:
On 30/11/2016 12:14, Eusebius wrote:
Can you put a mains socket in a cupboard inside a bathroom?

Would be handy for connecting my washing machine, which is in the bathroom. Cupboard door is about 9" from basin, 3ft from toilet and 4'3" from bath.


The sockets are a legal no-no (I have some in mine, though) But
surely a Fixed connection unit, so that it is permanently wired and
cannot be unplugged, would be legal? After all that is what most
electric towel rails and heaters have, and a permanently wired solution
is legal for those.

Yes I have a fan heater on the wall but it;s hardwired which is what the regs required in the late 1980s I assume it;s the same.

MrCheerful wrote:
On 30/11/2016 12:14, Eusebius wrote:
Can you put a mains socket in a cupboard inside a bathroom?

Would be handy for connecting my washing machine, which is in the bathroom.
Cupboard door is about 9" from basin, 3ft from toilet and 4'3" from bath.



The sockets are a legal no-no (I have some in mine, though) But

Surely 'legal' isn't the right word in this discussion. Something is
either according to the IEE wiring regulations or not. The
regulations aren't the law.

In fact I believe that you can wire to any EU standard (at least until
we leave the EU) and it would be 'legal'.

--
Chris Green
·

En el artículo , MrCheerful
escribió:

The sockets are a legal no-no (I have some in mine, though)

Me too, in another property. The builder who refurbished the bathroom threw
his hands up in horror when I asked for it. I insisted as it was the only
space available for the machine in the apartment. In the end, we agreed on
an outdoor one similar to this:

http://www.screwfix.com/p/lap-13a-1-...g-socket/30430

on its own circuit with an RCD in the CU. It's hidden behind the machine so
isn't accessible to Frenchwomen brandishing hairdryers.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) systemd: the Linux version of Windows 10
(")_(")

On 30/11/16 15:10, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

on its own circuit with an RCD in the CU. It's hidden behind the machine so
isn't accessible to Frenchwomen brandishing hairdryers.


But can presumably be made available if Scandinavian?

--
Adrian C

On 30/11/2016 12:14, Eusebius wrote:
Can you put a mains socket in a cupboard inside a bathroom?

Would be handy for connecting my washing machine, which is in the
bathroom. Cupboard door is about 9" from basin, 3ft from toilet and
4'3" from bath.

Sockets in bathrooms are now permitted (since 17th edition) *but* only
if 3m or more from the edge of zone 1 - so not much use in small
bathrooms. They would also be permitted if the cupboard could only be
accessed with a tool.

The normal way of connecting would be with a switched FCU.





--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 30/11/2016 15:02, Chris Green wrote:
MrCheerful wrote:
On 30/11/2016 12:14, Eusebius wrote:
Can you put a mains socket in a cupboard inside a bathroom?

Would be handy for connecting my washing machine, which is in the bathroom.
Cupboard door is about 9" from basin, 3ft from toilet and 4'3" from bath.



The sockets are a legal no-no (I have some in mine, though) But

Surely 'legal' isn't the right word in this discussion. Something is
either according to the IEE wiring regulations or not. The
regulations aren't the law.

In fact I believe that you can wire to any EU standard (at least until
we leave the EU) and it would be 'legal'.



OK against the regulations then. Either way, as far as I can tell from
the regs anything can be in there if it is hard wired.

En el artículo , Adrian Caspersz
escribió:

But can presumably be made available if Scandinavian?

That would be an ecumenical matter.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) systemd: the Linux version of Windows 10
(")_(")

On Wednesday, November 30, 2016 at 3:28:40 PM UTC+1, MrCheerful wrote:
On 30/11/2016 12:14, Eusebius wrote:
Can you put a mains socket in a cupboard inside a bathroom?

Would be handy for connecting my washing machine, which is in the bathroom. Cupboard door is about 9" from basin, 3ft from toilet and 4'3" from bath.


The sockets are a legal no-no (I have some in mine, though) But
surely a Fixed connection unit, so that it is permanently wired and
cannot be unplugged, would be legal? After all that is what most
electric towel rails and heaters have, and a permanently wired solution
is legal for those.

I may have recalled incorrectly, but it might be O.K. if

1) The cupboard can only be opened with a separate tool.
2) The closed cupboard meets the necessary Ingress Protection rating (IP rating) for its location in the bathroom.

*NOTE* I am not an electrician, and not qualified to advise. Please consult a qualified person, who is free to castigate me as fool who should not be allowed out without supervision.

Sid.

You can but why not simply wire in the machine permanently?
After all where would the wire come out when the door is closed?

Next question will no doubt be can I use an Arc welder in a Kitchen, or keep
Chickens in the bedroom? :-)
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Eusebius" wrote in message
...
Can you put a mains socket in a cupboard inside a bathroom?

Would be handy for connecting my washing machine, which is in the
bathroom. Cupboard door is about 9" from basin, 3ft from toilet and 4'3"
from bath.

I have that problem in a shower room. To wire in permanently means
removing a factory fitted, moulded on plug. Doing that negates the
guarantee,



In article ,
Brian Gaff wrote:
You can but why not simply wire in the machine permanently?
After all where would the wire come out when the door is closed?

Next question will no doubt be can I use an Arc welder in a Kitchen, or keep
Chickens in the bedroom? :-)
Brian

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
news
You can but why not simply wire in the machine permanently?
After all where would the wire come out when the door is closed?

Next question will no doubt be can I use an Arc welder in a Kitchen, or
keep Chickens in the bedroom? :-)
Brian

or a car IN a house like the merrycans did .....

seen loads of washing machines in bathrooms......we had a planning officer
with one...fun getting him to remove it...felt good....big Duncan

On 30/11/2016 18:00, charles wrote:
I have that problem in a shower room. To wire in permanently means
removing a factory fitted, moulded on plug. Doing that negates the
guarantee,



In article ,
Brian Gaff wrote:
You can but why not simply wire in the machine permanently?
After all where would the wire come out when the door is closed?

Next question will no doubt be can I use an Arc welder in a Kitchen, or keep
Chickens in the bedroom? :-)
Brian


So change the mains lead, in the event of guarantee problems replace the
original. Or just cut the plug off, many people do that where the
socket is above the worksurface, it should not be legal grounds to
invalidate the guarantee.

On 30/11/2016 15:23, MrCheerful wrote:
On 30/11/2016 15:02, Chris Green wrote:
MrCheerful wrote:
On 30/11/2016 12:14, Eusebius wrote:
Can you put a mains socket in a cupboard inside a bathroom?

Would be handy for connecting my washing machine, which is in the
bathroom.
Cupboard door is about 9" from basin, 3ft from toilet and 4'3" from
bath.



The sockets are a legal no-no (I have some in mine, though) But

Surely 'legal' isn't the right word in this discussion. Something is
either according to the IEE wiring regulations or not. The
regulations aren't the law.

In fact I believe that you can wire to any EU standard (at least until
we leave the EU) and it would be 'legal'.



OK against the regulations then. Either way, as far as I can tell from
the regs anything can be in there if it is hard wired.

That's generally the case - depending on the zone its in. Also it needs
to pass the sanity check of "is it suitable for the location?". So if
its somewhere its likely to routinely get splashed then a normal non
weather proof accessory may not be ideal.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
writes
On Wednesday, November 30, 2016 at 3:28:40 PM UTC+1, MrCheerful wrote:
On 30/11/2016 12:14, Eusebius wrote:
Can you put a mains socket in a cupboard inside a bathroom?

Would be handy for connecting my washing machine, which is in the
bathroom. Cupboard door is about 9" from basin, 3ft from toilet and
4'3" from bath.


The sockets are a legal no-no (I have some in mine, though) But
surely a Fixed connection unit, so that it is permanently wired and
cannot be unplugged, would be legal? After all that is what most
electric towel rails and heaters have, and a permanently wired solution
is legal for those.

I may have recalled incorrectly, but it might be O.K. if

1) The cupboard can only be opened with a separate tool.
2) The closed cupboard meets the necessary Ingress Protection rating
(IP rating) for its location in the bathroom.

*NOTE* I am not an electrician, and not qualified to advise. Please
consult a qualified person, who is free to castigate me as fool who
should not be allowed out without supervision.

Sid.
Ah, you're an apprentice.
--
bert

On 30/11/16 18:00, charles wrote:
I have that problem in a shower room. To wire in permanently means
removing a factory fitted, moulded on plug. Doing that negates the
guarantee,


I'm pretty sure it doesn't.

In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
On 30/11/16 18:00, charles wrote:
I have that problem in a shower room. To wire in permanently means
removing a factory fitted, moulded on plug. Doing that negates the
guarantee,


I'm pretty sure it doesn't.

Can't see why it would if the plug is correctly fitted.

--
*The hardness of the butter is proportional to the softness of the bread *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thursday, 1 December 2016 00:30:33 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
On 30/11/16 18:00, charles wrote:
I have that problem in a shower room. To wire in permanently means
removing a factory fitted, moulded on plug. Doing that negates the
guarantee,


I'm pretty sure it doesn't.

Can't see why it would if the plug is correctly fitted.

Isnt it simialr to a sticker falling off saying "warrenty void if removed".
All it means is the company refused to guarentee something that could have been '****ed' with and then put back together so it's not noticable.

I;'m not saying they are right to claim this it';s just what they say.

It;'s similar to lifetime guarantees where the con is that you have to have a reciept why ?
If a product is faulty it goers back to the manufacter for replacement NOT the store, as where you brought it should be irrelivant.

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 1 December 2016 00:30:33 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
On 30/11/16 18:00, charles wrote:
I have that problem in a shower room. To wire in permanently means
removing a factory fitted, moulded on plug. Doing that negates the
guarantee,


I'm pretty sure it doesn't.

Can't see why it would if the plug is correctly fitted.

Isnt it simialr to a sticker falling off saying "warrenty void if
removed". All it means is the company refused to guarentee something
that could have been '****ed' with and then put back together so it's
not noticable.

You can see if a plug has been replaced.

I;'m not saying they are right to claim this it';s just what they say.

They say lots of things. Just whether they would stand up in law is a
different matter.

It;'s similar to lifetime guarantees where the con is that you have to
have a reciept why ? If a product is faulty it goers back to the
manufacter for replacement NOT the store, as where you brought it should
be irrelivant.

A warranty goes to the person who purchased it unless specifically
transferrable like with some cars. So proof you are the original purchaser
isn't unreasonable. And sadly lifetime doesn't always mean what you might
think it does.

--
*People want trepanners like they want a hole in the head*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
It;'s similar to lifetime guarantees where the con is that you have to
have a reciept why ?
If a product is faulty it goers back to the manufacter for replacement NOT
the store, as where you brought it should be irrelivant.

Normally, the receipt is the proof of *when* as well as *where* the device
was bought. It's irrelevant whether you bought your vacuum cleaner (or
whatever) from Currys, John Lewis or a local one-off private electrical
shop, but if the warranty is for two years, then proving *when* you bought
the vac (and so when the warranty clock starts ticking) is crucial.

However you are talking about a lifetime warranty, so the concept of "when
the clock starts ticking" is irrelevant. All I can think is that the
manufacturer wants to make sure you've bought the appliance from an
authorised reseller and have not acquired it as a "grey import" that has
bypassed the normal distribution channels and may not even be authentic (it
could be a rip-off clone). Also, it's a check that the appliance isn't
nicked and bought from a man in a pub, no questions asked :-)

When I bought my camera (see 35 mm SLR thread) I had the choice of paying
more from some suppliers for one with a manufacturer's warranty, or less
from other suppliers for one that was a grey import that has the reseller's
warranty but no manufacturer's warranty. I took the calculated risk to go
for the grey import, hoping that I'd never need to call on a reseller's
warranty that might not be worth the paper it's written on. As it is, the
camera is just coming up to the end of the manufacturer's warranty period
and I've not had to claim, so I made the right decision.

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 1 December 2016 00:30:33 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Tim Watts
wrote:
On 30/11/16 18:00, charles wrote:
I have that problem in a shower room. To wire in permanently means
removing a factory fitted, moulded on plug. Doing that negates the
guarantee,


I'm pretty sure it doesn't.

Can't see why it would if the plug is correctly fitted.

Isnt it simialr to a sticker falling off saying "warrenty void if
removed". All it means is the company refused to guarentee something that
could have been '****ed' with and then put back together so it's not
noticable.

I;'m not saying they are right to claim this it';s just what they say.

It;'s similar to lifetime guarantees where the con is that you have to
have a reciept why ? If a product is faulty it goers back to the
manufacter for replacement NOT the store, as where you brought it should
be irrelivant.

If a product is faulty it goes back to the store from which you bought it.
You have no contract with the manufacturer.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

"charles" wrote in message
...
If a product is faulty it goes back to the store from which you bought it.
You have no contract with the manufacturer.

Though some appliances (eg our VAX vacuum cleaner) actually have a sticker
saying "in the event of a fault, do not return to store; instead phone
(manufacture's phone number)". I've always wondered how that squares with
contract law :-)

In article ,
charles wrote:
It;'s similar to lifetime guarantees where the con is that you have to
have a reciept why ? If a product is faulty it goers back to the
manufacter for replacement NOT the store, as where you brought it
should be irrelivant.

If a product is faulty it goes back to the store from which you bought
it. You have no contract with the manufacturer.

I think it depends. If it fails within what would normally be considered a
reasonable life, then yes the retailer is liable. But if it really is a
lifetime warranty, the maker can assume responsibility after that time.

--
*A fool and his money are soon partying *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thursday, 1 December 2016 11:16:01 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 1 December 2016 00:30:33 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
On 30/11/16 18:00, charles wrote:
I have that problem in a shower room. To wire in permanently means
removing a factory fitted, moulded on plug. Doing that negates the
guarantee,


I'm pretty sure it doesn't.

Can't see why it would if the plug is correctly fitted.

Isnt it simialr to a sticker falling off saying "warrenty void if
removed". All it means is the company refused to guarentee something
that could have been '****ed' with and then put back together so it's
not noticable.

You can see if a plug has been replaced.

and some say if the sticker has been removed they can tell especailly if you've lost or damaged it. Haven't you noticed that it;s only the sticker they are worried about not what you've done. This is partucually true for hard drives is where I still notice it most.
So if I removed the sticker even without even plugging in teh drive it's warrenty would be void NOT because I've used it or not used it purely because the sticker is removed.



I;'m not saying they are right to claim this it';s just what they say.

They say lots of things. Just whether they would stand up in law is a
different matter.

It most likely will as that's what you agreed to by purchasing the product,
if you don't agree don't buy.


It;'s similar to lifetime guarantees where the con is that you have to
have a reciept why ? If a product is faulty it goers back to the
manufacter for replacement NOT the store, as where you brought it should
be irrelivant.

A warranty goes to the person who purchased it unless specifically
transferrable like with some cars. So proof you are the original purchaser
isn't unreasonable. And sadly lifetime doesn't always mean what you might
think it does.

So lifetime warrently is that the life of the person buying teh product or the product itself I thought it wss the product itself rather than the purchaser.



--
*People want trepanners like they want a hole in the head*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thursday, 1 December 2016 11:19:04 UTC, NY wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
It;'s similar to lifetime guarantees where the con is that you have to
have a reciept why ?
If a product is faulty it goers back to the manufacter for replacement NOT
the store, as where you brought it should be irrelivant.

Normally, the receipt is the proof of *when* as well as *where* the device
was bought.

Why does that matter ?


It's irrelevant whether you bought your vacuum cleaner (or
whatever) from Currys, John Lewis or a local one-off private electrical
shop, but if the warranty is for two years, then proving *when* you bought
the vac (and so when the warranty clock starts ticking) is crucial.

Obvioulsy but I;'m talking about lifetime guarantees and guarantees of 50,000 hours for an LED bulb. All, they need to do is have a date stamp on the buld.
50k hours is over 5 years so if yuor 50k hour life bulb dies and the date stamp said it was made in 2015 you should be able to get a replacement from the maker without a recipt


However you are talking about a lifetime warranty, so the concept of "when
the clock starts ticking" is irrelevant. All I can think is that the
manufacturer wants to make sure you've bought the appliance from an
authorised reseller and have not acquired it as a "grey import"

why would that matter they are selling the product, so maybe they should sell it on the grey market.

that has
bypassed the normal distribution channels and may not even be authentic

Well such things a sfake can be sorted unless they truely are a s good as an orginal.

(it
could be a rip-off clone). Also,

So ....

it's a check that the appliance isn't
nicked and bought from a man in a pub, no questions asked :-)

why does that matter the buld has a lifetime guarantee.


When I bought my camera (see 35 mm SLR thread) I had the choice of paying
more from some suppliers for one with a manufacturer's warranty, or less
from other suppliers for one that was a grey import that has the reseller's
warranty but no manufacturer's warranty.

I had that choice in teh 70/80s too.


I took the calculated risk to go
for the grey import, hoping that I'd never need to call on a reseller's
warranty that might not be worth the paper it's written on.

I did the opposite lucky I did as the canon A1 didnlt work properly out of teh box. so it went back to the shop and they ordered a new one.

As it is, the
camera is just coming up to the end of the manufacturer's warranty period
and I've not had to claim, so I made the right decision.

Me too.
I didn;t think the risk of saving £20 or so worth it.

On Thursday, 1 December 2016 11:33:43 UTC, charles wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 1 December 2016 00:30:33 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Tim Watts
wrote:
On 30/11/16 18:00, charles wrote:
I have that problem in a shower room. To wire in permanently means
removing a factory fitted, moulded on plug. Doing that negates the
guarantee,


I'm pretty sure it doesn't.

Can't see why it would if the plug is correctly fitted.

Isnt it simialr to a sticker falling off saying "warrenty void if
removed". All it means is the company refused to guarentee something that
could have been '****ed' with and then put back together so it's not
noticable.

I;'m not saying they are right to claim this it';s just what they say.

It;'s similar to lifetime guarantees where the con is that you have to
have a reciept why ? If a product is faulty it goers back to the
manufacter for replacement NOT the store, as where you brought it should
be irrelivant.

If a product is faulty it goes back to the store from which you bought it.
You have no contract with the manufacturer.

A friend had a canon camecoder 500i that was sent back to canon under guarantee
NOT to the store.


--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On 01/12/2016 17:06, whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 1 December 2016 11:33:43 UTC, charles wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 1 December 2016 00:30:33 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Tim Watts
wrote:
On 30/11/16 18:00, charles wrote:
I have that problem in a shower room. To wire in permanently means
removing a factory fitted, moulded on plug. Doing that negates the
guarantee,


I'm pretty sure it doesn't.

Can't see why it would if the plug is correctly fitted.

Isnt it simialr to a sticker falling off saying "warrenty void if
removed". All it means is the company refused to guarentee something that
could have been '****ed' with and then put back together so it's not
noticable.

I;'m not saying they are right to claim this it';s just what they say.

It;'s similar to lifetime guarantees where the con is that you have to
have a reciept why ? If a product is faulty it goers back to the
manufacter for replacement NOT the store, as where you brought it should
be irrelivant.

If a product is faulty it goes back to the store from which you bought it.
You have no contract with the manufacturer.

A friend had a canon camecoder 500i that was sent back to canon under guarantee
NOT to the store.

That may well be the case in that situation.

However, the legal responsibility belongs to the merchant it was bought
from.

Now, they are perfectly entitled to appoint an agent to handle that
responsibility if they want, and that would include appointing the
manufacturer if the manufacturer agrees to it. The manufacturer may even
encourage merchants to let them handle returns and claims in some cases,
but all this is in addition to your statutory rights and not a
replacement of them.

None of that means there is any automatic requirement for the
manufacturer to honour any guarantee with an end user that they did not
sell to, since they have no contract with them - implied or otherwise.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Thu, 1 Dec 2016 08:55:13 -0800 (PST), whisky-dave
wrote:

On Thursday, 1 December 2016 11:16:01 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 1 December 2016 00:30:33 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
On 30/11/16 18:00, charles wrote:
I have that problem in a shower room. To wire in permanently means
removing a factory fitted, moulded on plug. Doing that negates the
guarantee,


I'm pretty sure it doesn't.

Can't see why it would if the plug is correctly fitted.

Isnt it simialr to a sticker falling off saying "warrenty void if
removed". All it means is the company refused to guarentee something
that could have been '****ed' with and then put back together so it's
not noticable.

You can see if a plug has been replaced.

and some say if the sticker has been removed they can tell especailly if you've lost or damaged it. Haven't you noticed that it;s only the sticker they are worried about not what you've done. This is partucually true for hard drives is where I still notice it most.
So if I removed the sticker even without even plugging in teh drive it's warrenty would be void NOT because I've used it or not used it purely because the sticker is removed.



I;'m not saying they are right to claim this it';s just what they say.

They say lots of things. Just whether they would stand up in law is a
different matter.

It most likely will as that's what you agreed to by purchasing the product,
if you don't agree don't buy.


It;'s similar to lifetime guarantees where the con is that you have to
have a reciept why ? If a product is faulty it goers back to the
manufacter for replacement NOT the store, as where you brought it should
be irrelivant.

A warranty goes to the person who purchased it unless specifically
transferrable like with some cars. So proof you are the original purchaser
isn't unreasonable. And sadly lifetime doesn't always mean what you might
think it does.

So lifetime warrently is that the life of the person buying teh product or the product itself I thought it wss the product itself rather than the purchaser.

It might be the life of the company, if the company goes into
administration (as Comet customers found out).

On Thu, 1 Dec 2016 17:49:44 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 01/12/2016 17:06, whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 1 December 2016 11:33:43 UTC, charles wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 1 December 2016 00:30:33 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Tim Watts
wrote:
On 30/11/16 18:00, charles wrote:
I have that problem in a shower room. To wire in permanently means
removing a factory fitted, moulded on plug. Doing that negates the
guarantee,


I'm pretty sure it doesn't.

Can't see why it would if the plug is correctly fitted.

Isnt it simialr to a sticker falling off saying "warrenty void if
removed". All it means is the company refused to guarentee something that
could have been '****ed' with and then put back together so it's not
noticable.

I;'m not saying they are right to claim this it';s just what they say.

It;'s similar to lifetime guarantees where the con is that you have to
have a reciept why ? If a product is faulty it goers back to the
manufacter for replacement NOT the store, as where you brought it should
be irrelivant.

If a product is faulty it goes back to the store from which you bought it.
You have no contract with the manufacturer.

A friend had a canon camecoder 500i that was sent back to canon under guarantee
NOT to the store.

That may well be the case in that situation.

However, the legal responsibility belongs to the merchant it was bought
from.

Now, they are perfectly entitled to appoint an agent to handle that
responsibility if they want, and that would include appointing the
manufacturer if the manufacturer agrees to it. The manufacturer may even
encourage merchants to let them handle returns and claims in some cases,
but all this is in addition to your statutory rights and not a
replacement of them.

None of that means there is any automatic requirement for the
manufacturer to honour any guarantee with an end user that they did not
sell to, since they have no contract with them - implied or otherwise.

Quid juris: do you think the retailer has a duty to honour a guarantee
that exceeds statutory rights?

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 1 December 2016 00:30:33 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
On 30/11/16 18:00, charles wrote:
I have that problem in a shower room. To wire in permanently means
removing a factory fitted, moulded on plug. Doing that negates the
guarantee,


I'm pretty sure it doesn't.

Can't see why it would if the plug is correctly fitted.

Isnt it simialr to a sticker falling off saying "warrenty void if
removed".

That has always been a lie. Removing that sticker
has no effect what so ever on your statutory rights.

All it means is the company refused to guarentee something

They dont get to do that. The law says its guaranteed anyway.

that could have been '****ed' with and
then put back together so it's not noticable.

That's their problem and is irrelevant to the law on that.

I;'m not saying they are right to claim this it';s just what they say.

It;'s similar to lifetime guarantees where the
con is that you have to have a reciept why ?

To prove that you didnt steal it.

If a product is faulty it goers back to the
manufacter for replacement OT the store,

That is just plain wrong legally too.

as where you brought it should be irrelivant.

Not when your rights are with the operation you bought it from.

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 1 December 2016 11:16:01 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 1 December 2016 00:30:33 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
On 30/11/16 18:00, charles wrote:
I have that problem in a shower room. To wire in permanently
means
removing a factory fitted, moulded on plug. Doing that negates
the
guarantee,


I'm pretty sure it doesn't.

Can't see why it would if the plug is correctly fitted.

Isnt it simialr to a sticker falling off saying "warrenty void if
removed". All it means is the company refused to guarentee something
that could have been '****ed' with and then put back together so it's
not noticable.

You can see if a plug has been replaced.

and some say if the sticker has been removed they
can tell especailly if you've lost or damaged it.
Haven't you noticed that it;s only the sticker they
are worried about not what you've done. This is
partucually true for hard drives is where I still notice
it most. So if I removed the sticker even without even
plugging in teh drive it's warrenty would be void NOT
because I've used it or not used it purely because the
sticker is removed.

Legally that is just plain wrong, particularly
with desktop systems and other appliances.

I;'m not saying they are right to claim this it';s just what they say.

They say lots of things. Just whether they would stand up in law is a
different matter.

It most likely will as that's what you agreed to by purchasing the
product,

Wrong, legally.

if you don't agree don't buy.

Anyone with even half a clue buys and knows they still have the warranty.

Same with the places that try to claim that they have no legal liability
for anything you leave with them for repair etc. That is a lie too.

It;'s similar to lifetime guarantees where the con is that you have to
have a reciept why ? If a product is faulty it goers back to the
manufacter for replacement NOT the store, as where you brought it
should
be irrelivant.

A warranty goes to the person who purchased it unless specifically
transferrable like with some cars. So proof you are the original
purchaser
isn't unreasonable. And sadly lifetime doesn't always mean what you might
think it does.

So lifetime warrently is that the life of the person buying teh product or
the
product itself I thought it wss the product itself rather than the
purchaser.

Not in the sense that one it has died, it has no warranty,
as you know full well you pathetic excuse for a troll.

whisky-dave wrote
NY wrote
whisky-dave wrote

It;'s similar to lifetime guarantees where the
con is that you have to have a reciept why ?

If a product is faulty it goers back to the manufacter for replacement
NOT the store, as where you brought it should be irrelivant.

Normally, the receipt is the proof of *when*
as well as *where* the device was bought.

Why does that matter ?

Because there is a time limit on the warranty, stupid.

It's irrelevant whether you bought your vacuum cleaner (or whatever)
from Currys, John Lewis or a local one-off private electrical shop, but
if the warranty is for two years, then proving *when* you bought
the vac (and so when the warranty clock starts ticking) is crucial.

Obvioulsy but I;'m talking about lifetime guarantees and guarantees of
50,000
hours for an LED bulb. All, they need to do is have a date stamp on the
buld.

Doesnt tell you when it was sold and that is what matters legally.

50k hours is over 5 years so if yuor 50k hour life bulb dies and
the date stamp said it was made in 2015 you should be able
to get a replacement from the maker without a recipt

You can, particularly if you make the claim with the manufacturer.

I got two replacement Culinare One Touch Automatic Jar Openers
just by sending the manufacturer a photo of the broken bit, when
they were outside the state warranty, no receipt required at all.

However you are talking about a lifetime warranty, so the concept
of "when the clock starts ticking" is irrelevant. All I can think is that
the manufacturer wants to make sure you've bought the appliance
from an authorised reseller and have not acquired it as a "grey import"
that has bypassed the normal distribution channels

Legally they can't do that here.

and may not even be authentic

Well such things a sfake can be sorted unless
they truely are a s good as an orginal.

Even if they are, the official manufacturer
isnt legally liable for failures of the fake.

(it could be a rip-off clone).

So ....

So the official manufacturer isnt legally liable when it fails.

Also, it's a check that the appliance isn't nicked and
bought from a man in a pub, no questions asked :-)

why does that matter the buld has a lifetime guarantee.

But no one paid for it, so there is no legal liability to fix it.

When I bought my camera (see 35 mm SLR thread) I had the choice
of paying more from some suppliers for one with a manufacturer's
warranty, or less from other suppliers for one that was a grey import
that has the reseller's warranty but no manufacturer's warranty.

I had that choice in teh 70/80s too.

I took the calculated risk to go for the grey import,
hoping that I'd never need to call on a reseller's
warranty that might not be worth the paper it's written on.

I did the opposite lucky I did as the canon A1 didnlt work properly out
of teh box. so it went back to the shop and they ordered a new one.

As it is, the camera is just coming up to the end of the manufacturer's
warranty period and I've not had to claim, so I made the right decision.

Me too.
I didn;t think the risk of saving £20 or so worth it.

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 1 December 2016 11:33:43 UTC, charles wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 1 December 2016 00:30:33 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Tim Watts
wrote:
On 30/11/16 18:00, charles wrote:
I have that problem in a shower room. To wire in permanently
means
removing a factory fitted, moulded on plug. Doing that negates
the
guarantee,


I'm pretty sure it doesn't.

Can't see why it would if the plug is correctly fitted.

Isnt it simialr to a sticker falling off saying "warrenty void if
removed". All it means is the company refused to guarentee something
that
could have been '****ed' with and then put back together so it's not
noticable.

I;'m not saying they are right to claim this it';s just what they say.

It;'s similar to lifetime guarantees where the con is that you have to
have a reciept why ? If a product is faulty it goers back to the
manufacter for replacement NOT the store, as where you brought it
should
be irrelivant.

If a product is faulty it goes back to the store from which you bought
it.
You have no contract with the manufacturer.

A friend had a canon camecoder 500i that was
sent back to canon under guarantee NOT to the store.

While there is no contract with the manufacturer,
the manufacturer is free to replace it if they want to.

Just got a full refund on a steaming turd of a mouse,
a Logitech M-950, direct from Logitech. Those ****wit
can't get their act into gear on the microswitch they use.

"Scott" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 1 Dec 2016 17:49:44 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 01/12/2016 17:06, whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 1 December 2016 11:33:43 UTC, charles wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 1 December 2016 00:30:33 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Tim Watts
wrote:
On 30/11/16 18:00, charles wrote:
I have that problem in a shower room. To wire in permanently means
removing a factory fitted, moulded on plug. Doing that negates the
guarantee,


I'm pretty sure it doesn't.

Can't see why it would if the plug is correctly fitted.

Isnt it simialr to a sticker falling off saying "warrenty void if
removed". All it means is the company refused to guarentee something
that
could have been '****ed' with and then put back together so it's not
noticable.

I;'m not saying they are right to claim this it';s just what they say.

It;'s similar to lifetime guarantees where the con is that you have to
have a reciept why ? If a product is faulty it goers back to the
manufacter for replacement NOT the store, as where you brought it
should
be irrelivant.

If a product is faulty it goes back to the store from which you bought
it.
You have no contract with the manufacturer.

A friend had a canon camecoder 500i that was sent back to canon under
guarantee
NOT to the store.

That may well be the case in that situation.

However, the legal responsibility belongs to the merchant it was bought
from.

Now, they are perfectly entitled to appoint an agent to handle that
responsibility if they want, and that would include appointing the
manufacturer if the manufacturer agrees to it. The manufacturer may even
encourage merchants to let them handle returns and claims in some cases,
but all this is in addition to your statutory rights and not a
replacement of them.

None of that means there is any automatic requirement for the
manufacturer to honour any guarantee with an end user that they did not
sell to, since they have no contract with them - implied or otherwise.

Quid juris: do you think the retailer has a duty to honour a guarantee
that exceeds statutory rights?

Yes, because that is what is stated when they sold it to you.