it sounds as if someone is sprinkling rice for a second or two onto the top of
the ceiling boards. Happens just for a second or two and then nothing else for
hours or more. Is this typical of mice?
I have noticed it several times in the small hours recently. One time at about
3am there was quite a fluttering sound, like wings going beserk, which lasted a
while but it really wasn't the time to get the step ladder out and wake the
whole household! Sceptical friends have suggest birds perched on the gutter
can sound as if they're in the loft, or may have dropped small items that roll
the roof.

I can't see anything knawed in the loft, or any droppings.

One side of the house is fairly rough natural stone, easily climbed by critters
I'm sure, and at the top there are plenty of gaps which the builders tried to
plug with some sort of metal mesh (though not very well) after we complained
about the starling we once chased out of the place.

Obviously I'd like to seal things up good and proper while still allowing
ventilation. Any suggestions? The smallest mesh I can find is 6mm squares,
and another usenet posting suggests some small fiends can still get through
something even as fine as that!

If I can find a smaller mesh, would that keep out most wee beasties? Is
that yellow-y spray foam stuff suitable for pluggin any other small holes,
do rodents feed upon it happily, is it a toxic nightmare to spray it in a
confined space on all fours?

The other noise we're getting sounds like something falling down inside the
cavity wall... which leads to another question... the top of the cavity wall
is open in the loft, so if anything can get into the cavity via the recent
conservatory work it can in theory get into the loft. Am I OK to cover the
top of the cavity wall, or does it need to 'breathe'?

I just want a quiet loft devoid of all lifeforms from mould upwards in size!
HELP!

thanks.

(Diphthong) wrote:

Hello Diphthong

D| it sounds as if someone is sprinkling rice for a second or
D| two onto the top of the ceiling boards. Happens just for a
D| second or two and then nothing else for hours or more. Is
D| this typical of mice? I have noticed it several times in the
D| small hours recently. One time at about 3am there was quite
D| a fluttering sound, like wings going beserk, which lasted a
D| while but it really wasn't the time to get the step ladder
D| out and wake the

Sounds like bats - although they tend to be more active at dawn/dusk
than 3am. They also dump guano everywhere (almost identical to mouse
crap).

It could be a bird, mouse or squirrel. Check for chewed stuff,
especially wiring and plastic pipes - look behind boxes and in
corners.

If a bird, most likely got trapped and is probably dead by now.

D| Obviously I'd like to seal things up good and proper while
D| still allowing ventilation. Any suggestions? The smallest
D| mesh I can find is 6mm squares, and another usenet posting
D| suggests some small fiends can still get through something
D| even as fine as that!

That'll be fine. I think mice can get down to about 10mm (by
dislocating their jaw) but 6mm is /tiny/. Anything loud enough to
bother you wouldn't stand a chance.

Always put some poison up there just to make sure that you haven't
trapped anything in.

D| If I can find a smaller mesh, would that keep out most wee
D| beasties? Is that yellow-y spray foam stuff suitable for
D| pluggin any other small holes, do rodents feed upon it
D| happily, is it a toxic nightmare to spray it in a confined
D| space on all fours?

You rightly wanted to keep ventilation - ignore expanding foam.

D| The other noise we're getting sounds like something falling
D| down inside the cavity wall... which leads to another
D| question... the top of the cavity wall is open in the loft,
D| so if anything can get into the cavity via the
D| recent conservatory work it can in theory get into the
D| loft. Am I OK to cover the top of the cavity wall, or does
D| it need to 'breathe'?

Yes, it does need to breathe or you could end up with damp walls. Ok
to use mesh over it though, if there is a chance of things getting up.

--
Simon Avery, Dartmoor, UK
uk.d-i-y FAQ: http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/

Diphthong wrote:
it sounds as if someone is sprinkling rice for a second or two onto
the top of the ceiling boards. Happens just for a second or two and
then nothing else for hours or more. Is this typical of mice?
I have noticed it several times in the small hours recently. One time
at about 3am there was quite a fluttering sound, like wings going
beserk, which lasted a while but it really wasn't the time to get the
step ladder out and wake the whole household! Sceptical friends have
suggest birds perched on the gutter can sound as if they're in the
loft, or may have dropped small items that roll the roof.

I can't see anything knawed in the loft, or any droppings.

One side of the house is fairly rough natural stone, easily climbed
by critters I'm sure, and at the top there are plenty of gaps which
the builders tried to plug with some sort of metal mesh (though not
very well) after we complained about the starling we once chased out
of the place.

Obviously I'd like to seal things up good and proper while still
allowing ventilation. Any suggestions? The smallest mesh I can find
is 6mm squares,
and another usenet posting suggests some small fiends can still get
through something even as fine as that!

If I can find a smaller mesh, would that keep out most wee beasties?
Is
that yellow-y spray foam stuff suitable for pluggin any other small
holes,
do rodents feed upon it happily, is it a toxic nightmare to spray it
in a confined space on all fours?
A had a rat in the roof once that ate the fibreglass insulation..

The other noise we're getting sounds like something falling down
inside the cavity wall... which leads to another question... the top
of the cavity wall is open in the loft, so if anything can get into
the cavity via the recent conservatory work it can in theory get
into the loft. Am I OK to cover the top of the cavity wall, or does
it need to 'breathe'?

I just want a quiet loft devoid of all lifeforms from mould upwards
in size! HELP!

thanks.

Mice can get through a space that just allows their skull through, basically
about the size of a pencil.
So mesh unless very fine, won't keep 'em out

On 5 Dec 2003 08:14:20 -0800, Diphthong wrote:

I just want a quiet loft devoid of all lifeforms from mould upwards in size!
HELP!

Be careful if it might be bats, as it is a criminal offence to disturb a
bat's roost or block the bat's access.
It is permissible in a house, but only under the supervision of English
Nature. See http://www.bats.org.uk/batlaw.htm

snip

Sounds like either Mice, Bats or Demonic Possesion!
Have a look for any droppings, if you can't find any it's probably the
latter option.

"Diphthong" wrote in message
om...
it sounds as if someone is sprinkling rice for a second or two onto the
top of
the ceiling boards. Happens just for a second or two and then nothing else
for
hours or more. Is this typical of mice?
I have noticed it several times in the small hours recently. One time at
about
3am there was quite a fluttering sound, like wings going beserk, which
lasted a
while but it really wasn't the time to get the step ladder out and wake
the
whole household! Sceptical friends have suggest birds perched on the
gutter
can sound as if they're in the loft, or may have dropped small items that
roll
the roof.

Years ago we used to hear small noises from the loft. One day I decided to
investigate and pushed open the trap door.

You know those rolls of old wallpaper you keep up there? One was thrown at
me, I'll swear it didn't just fall. I thought Hitler must be still around.

Spouse went up and found a dead, stinking, squirrel in some more wallpaper
and evidence of at least one other, live one. He put netting over any holes
big enough for them and there was no more noise.

In our case they'd jump to the roof from a tree and somehow gain ingress
once there. I used to see them jumping from the tree while I was sitting at
the computer but thought no more of it.

Mary

"Diphthong" wrote in message
om...
[snip]

If it's any consolation, my house is normally rodent-free but at this time
of year we
get a few little "visitors".
So the RAT trap is set and makes a nice indent on the mice dispatched by it.

I'd clearly like to devise some sort of humane mice-excluder device that
lures them
to (say) the soffit area and then gives them a choice of one direction down
a
pipe and out of the house. Something with quite a few one-way ratchets so
that
once excluded there is no easy return.
I'm getting tired of emptying the traps too.

HTH

Mungo

On Fri, 5 Dec 2003 23:08:58 +0000 (UTC), Mungo Henning wrote:

I'd clearly like to devise some sort of humane mice-excluder device
that lures them to (say) the soffit area and then gives them a
choice of one direction down a pipe and out of the house.

They'd love that! Make your house into a playground for them
wonderful. Experience has shown that the ones that come in when it
gets cold outside will just keep coming back in unless you bump 'me
off or transport them a good few miles.

I'm getting tired of emptying the traps too.

Since we started the transportation of our "visitors" 4 miles up onto
the fell tops we don't see them again. Our first ones where mid
October, about half a dozen or so, haven't had one for weeks now.
Previously, when we released at the bottom of the paddock, it would 3
or 4 per week nearly all winter...

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Sounds like mice or rats.

Whatever they are, if you put some bait down and that kills the ones there,
then that normally solves the problem and no others tend to return - so you
don't have to bother trying to seal every possible hole

dg


"Diphthong" wrote in message
om...
it sounds as if someone is sprinkling rice for a second or two onto the
top of
the ceiling boards. Happens just for a second or two and then nothing else
for
hours or more. Is this typical of mice?
I have noticed it several times in the small hours recently. One time at
about
3am there was quite a fluttering sound, like wings going beserk, which
lasted a
while but it really wasn't the time to get the step ladder out and wake
the
whole household! Sceptical friends have suggest birds perched on the
gutter
can sound as if they're in the loft, or may have dropped small items that
roll
the roof.

I can't see anything knawed in the loft, or any droppings.

One side of the house is fairly rough natural stone, easily climbed by
critters
I'm sure, and at the top there are plenty of gaps which the builders tried
to
plug with some sort of metal mesh (though not very well) after we
complained
about the starling we once chased out of the place.

Obviously I'd like to seal things up good and proper while still allowing
ventilation. Any suggestions? The smallest mesh I can find is 6mm squares,
and another usenet posting suggests some small fiends can still get
through
something even as fine as that!

If I can find a smaller mesh, would that keep out most wee beasties? Is
that yellow-y spray foam stuff suitable for pluggin any other small holes,
do rodents feed upon it happily, is it a toxic nightmare to spray it in a
confined space on all fours?

The other noise we're getting sounds like something falling down inside
the
cavity wall... which leads to another question... the top of the cavity
wall
is open in the loft, so if anything can get into the cavity via the recent
conservatory work it can in theory get into the loft. Am I OK to cover
the
top of the cavity wall, or does it need to 'breathe'?

I just want a quiet loft devoid of all lifeforms from mould upwards in
size!
HELP!

thanks.

On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 23:54:49 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

Since we started the transportation of our "visitors" 4 miles up onto
the fell tops we don't see them again. Our first ones where mid
October, about half a dozen or so, haven't had one for weeks now.
Previously, when we released at the bottom of the paddock, it would 3
or 4 per week nearly all winter...

Could be that you are bumping them off anyway. Maybe they are making
their way back to your place and on the way get confronted by some
wild animal looking for its lunch.....

PoP

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
. 1...
On Fri, 5 Dec 2003 23:08:58 +0000 (UTC), Mungo Henning wrote:

I'd clearly like to devise some sort of humane mice-excluder device
that lures them to (say) the soffit area and then gives them a
choice of one direction down a pipe and out of the house.

They'd love that! Make your house into a playground for them
wonderful. Experience has shown that the ones that come in when it
gets cold outside will just keep coming back in unless you bump 'me
off or transport them a good few miles.

I'm getting tired of emptying the traps too.

Since we started the transportation of our "visitors" 4 miles up onto
the fell tops we don't see them again. Our first ones where mid
October, about half a dozen or so, haven't had one for weeks now.
Previously, when we released at the bottom of the paddock, it would 3
or 4 per week nearly all winter...

It's very comforting to read that posters are prepared to admit that they
have rodents.

When I've said that we live in an unintended menagerie people express
horror - but I believe that there must be few houses without the odd 'pest'.
Perhaps they just don't see them or the evidence, or perhaps don't recognise
the evidence ... or are in denial?

Thanks to those here who do acknowledge 'pest' hosting, I'm in good company
:-)

Mary

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On Sat, 6 Dec 2003 10:04:30 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

It's very comforting to read that posters are prepared to admit that they
have rodents.

When I showed my grand daughter, 8yo, the paper that had been used by
our "visitor" and the gnaw marks in a mars bar she took fright. She
won't stay overnight now nor go upstairs un accompanied. This despite
my having shown her nests with occupants in the wild.

Having trapped (break back trap) them in the past and found them to be
woodmice I'm leaving this one alone (well I have set a mikk bottle
with chocolate but doubt it will work).

AJH

Mary Fisher wrote:

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
. 1...

On Fri, 5 Dec 2003 23:08:58 +0000 (UTC), Mungo Henning wrote:


I'd clearly like to devise some sort of humane mice-excluder device
that lures them to (say) the soffit area and then gives them a
choice of one direction down a pipe and out of the house.

They'd love that! Make your house into a playground for them
wonderful. Experience has shown that the ones that come in when it
gets cold outside will just keep coming back in unless you bump 'me
off or transport them a good few miles.


I'm getting tired of emptying the traps too.

Since we started the transportation of our "visitors" 4 miles up onto
the fell tops we don't see them again. Our first ones where mid
October, about half a dozen or so, haven't had one for weeks now.
Previously, when we released at the bottom of the paddock, it would 3
or 4 per week nearly all winter...


It's very comforting to read that posters are prepared to admit that they
have rodents.

When I've said that we live in an unintended menagerie people express
horror - but I believe that there must be few houses without the odd 'pest'.
Perhaps they just don't see them or the evidence, or perhaps don't recognise
the evidence ... or are in denial?

Thanks to those here who do acknowledge 'pest' hosting, I'm in good company
:-)



I have never lived in a house that didn't at one time or anoher have the
odd mouse in it. They will come in through teh doors anyway if left open
in summer. I trap and elminate. Letting them go outside is probabl
vcertan death anyway as thats why they came inside. No food.

Ive have had birds in the attic as well - very small holes will allow
ingress, which is why meshed vents are now de rigeur for eaves. I had a
rough hole punched through to allow a soil stack vent outside, and I
think some got in that way. We found droppings, heard scuttlings, but no
birds.

I have had two small birds fall dwon into teh large pen fireplaces via
the chimney, and two large birds - a pigeon and a crow - fell down teh
6" flue pipe to a wood burning stove. I assumed the pigeon got out, but
hwen the grow arrived just above teh stove, I had to lever the pigein
reamins out of the flue past the flap valve, whereupon the crow flew
into the bedroom. Fortunately he had emptied his bowels on the pigeon,
and eventually found the open windows.

Rats are about, because we see them and find their corpses, but so far
they haven't got inside. Or worse still into the thatch...aprrently rats
in thatch is istant end of thatch.

We put back the mummified cat we found in the old thatch, into the new
thatch. Apparently keeps witches away. Must be working because we
haven't had any witch infestations.



Mary

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

"Andrew Heggie" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 6 Dec 2003 10:04:30 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

It's very comforting to read that posters are prepared to admit that they
have rodents.

When I showed my grand daughter, 8yo, the paper that had been used by
our "visitor" and the gnaw marks in a mars bar she took fright.

I wonder why? Such a little thing compared with even an eight year old.

But people are irrationally frightened of all sorts of tiny things, such as
flying insects (even moths which can't bite or sting!) and yet are happy
enough to walk alongside or cross a busy road risking several hundredweights
of metal hitting them.

She
won't stay overnight now nor go upstairs un accompanied. This despite
my having shown her nests with occupants in the wild.

That's a shame.

Having trapped (break back trap) them in the past and found them to be
woodmice I'm leaving this one alone (well I have set a mikk bottle
with chocolate but doubt it will work).

A house mouse was killed in our Ratzapper last night. I'm not frightened of
mice but don't want them in the house. Why? I don't know. They're not in the
pantry.

I'm as irrational as the next man - who set the trap, not me.

Mary

AJH

On Sat, 6 Dec 2003 10:04:30 -0000, Mary Fisher wrote:

It's very comforting to read that posters are prepared to admit that
they have rodents.

Whats the problem? The mice are just outside the door along with
shrews, voles and rats. What do people expect an sensible animal to do
when it gets cold? It's not going to stay out in the cold when there
is a nice warm place with plentifull food supply just through that
hole...

We get an annual invasion around about mid October, when the first
cold nights/frosts occur. The rest of the time the house is rodent
free, well free of obvious signs of rodent... B-)

With young children there are small particles of food under the dining
table or on the kitchen floor, you'd have to hoover after every meal
to not have. One of the first indications of a "visitor" is a clean
carpet under the dining table or clean kitchen floor. I've watched
them foraging in the kitchen, they don't miss the tinyest a crumb. I
guess townies aren't used to the wildlife being quite so obvious and
close.

When I've said that we live in an unintended menagerie people
express horror - but I believe that there must be few houses without
the odd 'pest'.

None, dust mites are everywhere that humans live. What do they quote?
Half the weight of a 2 year old duvet is dust mite droppings or at
least a significant percentage... I bet there aren't many places
without woodlice somewhere or silverfish.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On Sat, 6 Dec 2003 12:03:20 -0000, Mary Fisher wrote:

When I showed my grand daughter, 8yo, the paper that had been used
by our "visitor" and the gnaw marks in a mars bar she took fright.

I wonder why? Such a little thing compared with even an eight year
old.

Most odd, maybe she hadn't realised that mice have teeth and very
effective teeth. Or perhaps the nibbling of "human food" rather than
"mouse food" upset her, young children can have a very black and white
world view.

yet are happy enough to walk alongside or cross a busy road risking
several hundredweights of metal hitting them.

Make that over a tonne for the average car, 20cwt+...

A house mouse was killed in our Ratzapper last night. I'm not
frightened of mice but don't want them in the house.

I don't want them in the house because of the damage they cause.
They'll nibble anything, cables, pipes you name it. I also don't want
them wandering over the kitchen worktops where we prepare food, they
leave a urine trail or finding their way to our food stores...

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 05:30:34 +0000, PoP wrote:

Could be that you are bumping them off anyway. Maybe they are making
their way back to your place and on the way get confronted by some
wild animal looking for its lunch.....

Thats fine by me. I'm happier about possibly feeding the local
predators than simply killing in cold blood and dumping in the compost
heap. After all the Merlin, Brown Owls, Hen Harriers, Buzzards,
Stoats, Weasles, Pole Cats, etc all have to live on something.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Most odd, maybe she hadn't realised that mice have teeth and very
effective teeth. Or perhaps the nibbling of "human food" rather than
"mouse food" upset her, young children can have a very black and white
world view.

I must have been about that age when I went to see my mother in the kitchen
of the nursery where she was a dinner lady (this more than 50 years ago).

She told me to sit very still and quiet and watch the floor near the gas
cooker. I did and was rewarded by seeing a mouse come out from behind the
stove. I was fascinated.

Oh - those were the days when children did as they were told ... :-)

(and Mars bars were on coupons and hardly seen)

Mary

It's very comforting to read that posters are prepared to admit that
they have rodents.

Whats the problem?

I don't know. I have no problem, I don't know why others do.

The mice are just outside the door along with
shrews, voles and rats.

I know that, you know that, but very many people can't bear the thought of
it.

What do people expect an sensible animal to do
when it gets cold? It's not going to stay out in the cold when there
is a nice warm place with plentifull food supply just through that
hole...

Absolutely.

We get an annual invasion around about mid October, when the first
cold nights/frosts occur. The rest of the time the house is rodent
free, well free of obvious signs of rodent... B-)

Ah - you've hit the nail on the head. Absence of evidence is not evidence of
absence ...

With young children there are small particles of food under the dining
table or on the kitchen floor, you'd have to hoover after every meal
to not have. One of the first indications of a "visitor" is a clean
carpet under the dining table or clean kitchen floor. I've watched
them foraging in the kitchen, they don't miss the tinyest a crumb. I
guess townies aren't used to the wildlife being quite so obvious and
close.

Some of us are ... some of us understand that there are more rats per square
whatever than there are in the country.

When I've said that we live in an unintended menagerie people
express horror - but I believe that there must be few houses without
the odd 'pest'.

None, dust mites are everywhere that humans live. What do they quote?
Half the weight of a 2 year old duvet is dust mite droppings or at
least a significant percentage... I bet there aren't many places
without woodlice somewhere or silverfish.

Now silverfish is the one thing I haven't seen in forty years in this house.
I once saw a couple in an only occasionally inhabited ancient cottage on the
North Yorkshire Moors.

I don't mind the mammals. I'm not worried about most lepidoptera or
hymenoptera.

I don't warm to slugs or maggots (yes I KNOW some of them are baby
lepidoptera). Woodlice are snapped up by the hens. We haven't had evidence
of fleas since the cat went for his last trip to the vets.

But mostly we don't mind sharing our living quarters with other life, we
share the Earth with far more than come in here. And as you say, there are
Things which we don't know about and mostly can't see.

Mary



--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 05:30:34 +0000, PoP wrote:


Could be that you are bumping them off anyway. Maybe they are making
their way back to your place and on the way get confronted by some
wild animal looking for its lunch.....


Thats fine by me. I'm happier about possibly feeding the local
predators than simply killing in cold blood and dumping in the compost
heap. After all the Merlin, Brown Owls, Hen Harriers, Buzzards,
Stoats, Weasles, Pole Cats, etc all have to live on something.



So give them freshly slaughtered corpses. And save you them and the
mouse all that extra effort.

Mary Fisher wrote:


But mostly we don't mind sharing our living quarters with other life, we
share the Earth with far more than come in here. And as you say, there are
Things which we don't know about and mostly can't see.


Its the things that do damage that are the pain.

I had some serious mice in the last house...a 3/4 full bag of dried dog
food vanished down to a few crumps *overnight*. I THOUHT it was rats,
but on setting traps, we caught half a dozen enormous sleek fat mice.

Ive seen then sherd square meters of carpet, destroy car woring looms
and underbonnet isnulation making nets in the air filters of laid up cars.

I like animals. I like the butterflies hat winter over. I like the bess
that come in. I kill the wasp, and teh mice, because one stings and teh
other is a dsease carrioer and dmagaes my stuff.

Rats are attacked on sight, I am afraid, as are pigeons and rabbits. And
Muntjac deer too.

They are all utterly destructive and/or carry serious dieases I don't want.




Mary



--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 13:42:49 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

After all the Merlin, Brown Owls, Hen Harriers, Buzzards,
Stoats, Weasles, Pole Cats, etc all have to live on something.

So give them freshly slaughtered corpses. And save you them and the
mouse all that extra effort.

Some of those don't take carrion...

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail