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Default TV in kitchen - regs?

I've searched around for the answer to this but haven't found it as yet: is
there any regulation concerning placing a small wall-mounted 12V TV set in a
kitchen?

I have a blank area above a draining board, partly protected from splashes
and steam by a 6" deep shelf which runs the length of that wall. It seems
like the obvious place to mount a smallish TV, say 17" or so. There are
specially-designed water- and steam-proof sets intended for bathrooms but
would one of them be overkill for a kitchen? Is there any reason why I
shouldn't use a conventional set?

Many thanks.




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On 02/09/16 09:30, Bert Coules wrote:
I've searched around for the answer to this but haven't found it as yet:
is there any regulation concerning placing a small wall-mounted 12V TV
set in a kitchen?

I have a blank area above a draining board, partly protected from
splashes and steam by a 6" deep shelf which runs the length of that
wall. It seems like the obvious place to mount a smallish TV, say 17"
or so. There are specially-designed water- and steam-proof sets
intended for bathrooms but would one of them be overkill for a kitchen?
Is there any reason why I shouldn't use a conventional set?

Many thanks.






Might be OK as there is not really that much steam emitted from a sink,
other than when you drain boiling water into it.
Try dumping a pan of water down the sink and see where the steam cloud goes.
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On 02/09/16 11:11, Tim Watts wrote:
On 02/09/16 09:30, Bert Coules wrote:
I've searched around for the answer to this but haven't found it as yet:
is there any regulation concerning placing a small wall-mounted 12V TV
set in a kitchen?

I have a blank area above a draining board, partly protected from
splashes and steam by a 6" deep shelf which runs the length of that
wall. It seems like the obvious place to mount a smallish TV, say 17"
or so. There are specially-designed water- and steam-proof sets
intended for bathrooms but would one of them be overkill for a kitchen?
Is there any reason why I shouldn't use a conventional set?

Many thanks.






Might be OK as there is not really that much steam emitted from a sink,
other than when you drain boiling water into it.
Try dumping a pan of water down the sink and see where the steam cloud
goes.


I've had two kitchens with TVS so far. Mount high up LCDs beat CRTs for
safety .


--
"If you dont read the news paper, you are un-informed. If you read the
news paper, you are mis-informed."

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Default TV in kitchen - regs?

Tim,

Thanks for that. There's an extractor fan very close by, so steam shouldn't
really be a serious problem. And if I don't need to pay extra for a
specialist waterproof set, that's a pleasant bonus.

Bert

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The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I've had two kitchens with TVs so far. Mount high up LCDs
beat CRTs for safety.


Thanks. A small-screen LCD or similar set, perhaps slightly recessed into
the wall and with a shelf beneath, ought to be pretty safe, I think.

Bert



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On 02/09/16 11:28, Bert Coules wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I've had two kitchens with TVs so far. Mount high up LCDs
beat CRTs for safety.


Thanks. A small-screen LCD or similar set, perhaps slightly recessed
into the wall and with a shelf beneath, ought to be pretty safe, I think.

Bert

Listening to one on a wall bracket right now. 20" or so.

Its above a kettle. Samsung. hasn't missed a beat. Best way to do
cooking is watching some crap like NCIS...

I SHOULD have got a smart one so I could watch stored videos on the
server, too..





--
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making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people
who pay no price for being wrong.€

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Default TV in kitchen - regs?

Thanks again.

The whole smart TV/central server/whole house distribution area is something
I'm trying to get into. I've been looking for a straightforward guide,
online or off.

Bert

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On 02/09/16 11:53, Bert Coules wrote:
Thanks again.

The whole smart TV/central server/whole house distribution area is
something I'm trying to get into. I've been looking for a
straightforward guide, online or off.

Bert

Well what I did was pretty simple.

I ran up minidlna on a linux server I have - I admit I ended up
compiling from source and hacking it a little, but if you are happy to
accept its default behaviour that's not needed.

I told it where the videos are.

And that's it. Any TV style client on the home network can 'see' it, and
as its a network drive as well, so can any PC that has that drive mounted.

IF you are going that route I strongly suggest you use an old PC and
install ****loads of disk, and Linux. Then remove screen and keyboard
and let it gurgle.

Basically you will need NFS server for linux clients, SAMBA for PC and
MAC clients and minidlna for TVs and I think Xboxen..

If your TV aint smart, a DVD player that is, is peanuts.


If you keep a screen and keyboard on the server you can use that to
strip DVDS and edit recordings, and if you install a TV dongle, you can
record off air onto it as well.

Add second drive and some scripts and you can backup automatically
every night, and of course it becomes a handy place for the family to
share data on as well.



Build your own NAS is a very good DIY project using a scrap XP style PC.

You don't need speed fast video or a lot of RAM 1GB is plenty. Just a
reliable MB with ethernet, and as much disk as you can afford.

And a Linux installation disk. TBH for a server debian is good enough,
But I went all mint.

Happy to help anyone through the issues.

And there are half a dozen other people here just as good at linux.

Would make a good wiki article maybe.




--
A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on
its shoes.
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Default TV in kitchen - regs?

In article ,
Bert Coules wrote:
I've searched around for the answer to this but haven't found it as yet:
is there any regulation concerning placing a small wall-mounted 12V TV
set in a kitchen?


I have a blank area above a draining board, partly protected from
splashes and steam by a 6" deep shelf which runs the length of that
wall. It seems like the obvious place to mount a smallish TV, say 17"
or so. There are specially-designed water- and steam-proof sets
intended for bathrooms but would one of them be overkill for a kitchen?
Is there any reason why I shouldn't use a conventional set?


I'd look for one with an external power supply. That converts 240v to the
low volts for the set, and have that out of the danger area. I'd not
really like the possibility of someone operating a mains switch with wet
hands while touching a good ground like a metal sink.

Or site it so high it can't be touched at all.

I have an LV in my kitchen that has such a power supply - but it's not
sited where you could touch it while working at the sink anyway.

--
*IF A TURTLE DOESN'T HAVE A SHELL, IS HE HOMELESS OR NAKED?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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On 02/09/2016 09:30, Bert Coules wrote:
I've searched around for the answer to this but haven't found it as yet:
is there any regulation concerning placing a small wall-mounted 12V TV
set in a kitchen?

I have a blank area above a draining board, partly protected from
splashes and steam by a 6" deep shelf which runs the length of that
wall. It seems like the obvious place to mount a smallish TV, say 17"
or so. There are specially-designed water- and steam-proof sets
intended for bathrooms but would one of them be overkill for a kitchen?
Is there any reason why I shouldn't use a conventional set?

Many thanks.

It's continuous or near continuous steam that causes the problem. If the
steam is of short duration it won't do any harm.

Bill



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Bill Wright wrote:

It's continuous or near continuous steam that causes the problem. If the
steam is of short duration it won't do any harm.


Thanks for that. I can't imagine there being any particularly continuous
steam: the kitchen doesn't get that sort of use.

Bert

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Dave Plowman wrote:

I'd look for one with an external power supply. That converts 240v to the
low volts for the set, and have that out of the danger area. I'd not
really like the possibility of someone operating a mains switch with wet
hands while touching a good ground like a metal sink.


Thanks for that: it's a good point, though there are already plenty of
mains-operated appliances in the kitchen and (so far) I've been wary enough
not to switch any of them on or off while my hands were wet.

Bert

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The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Basically you will need NFS server for linux clients...


Apart from material I've downloaded, all my audio and video collection is on
old-fashioned CDs and DVDs (and audio cassettes, VHS tapes and reel-to-reel
tapes). I've considered copying it all onto hard disks but it's a somewhat
daunting thought and in truth I like having the individual items on my
shelves. I ought to do it for the older and more fragile stuff though.

Away from TV, I'd like to set up a system which would essentially have the
same effect as putting a DAB radio into every room (which of course I could
do, but I'm interested in alternatives): from some centralised source I'd
like to be able to select a channel and control the volume in each room.
The source would only ever have to provide one channel at a time, though I'd
like to be able to play it in more than one room simultaneously if I wanted.

What would be the simplest way to achieve that?

Thanks.

Bert

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Default TV in kitchen - regs?

I didn't explain that very well.

I'd like to be able to walk into any room and select what I hear and the
volume I hear it at from a control (wall mounted, maybe?) in that room.

There would ideally be a single centralised source which fed a signal to
every room.

Bert

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I'd imagine it depends on whether you make a lot of splashes and steam in
that area. To me I've never liked mains powered radios and tvs in kitchens,
but to be fair none of my friends have ever electrocuted themselves or
damaged the equipment. If you do do this though you might want to see if
that area does get damp at any time before deciding and route all cables
well away from the sink.

Back in the day we used to have an old 13 inch trinitron set and it was
often used in a bathroom. One day when the push buttons broke I had need to
get inside and was amazed that the main chassis had spots of rust and
pealing plating on it, so obviously condensation did it no good at all, but
it never actually went wrong in a major way even then.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Bert Coules" wrote in message
...
I've searched around for the answer to this but haven't found it as yet:
is there any regulation concerning placing a small wall-mounted 12V TV set
in a kitchen?

I have a blank area above a draining board, partly protected from splashes
and steam by a 6" deep shelf which runs the length of that wall. It seems
like the obvious place to mount a smallish TV, say 17" or so. There are
specially-designed water- and steam-proof sets intended for bathrooms but
would one of them be overkill for a kitchen? Is there any reason why I
shouldn't use a conventional set?

Many thanks.








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On Friday, 2 September 2016 11:25:46 UTC+1, Bert Coules wrote:
Thanks for that. There's an extractor fan very close by, so steam shouldn't
really be a serious problem.


Steam and grease will be deposited in the path to the extractor fan.

Main hazard is dropping the remote into the washing up. :-)

Personally I have installed 4 x data points and a sat point in the kitchen-to-be.

Owain

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Thanks, Owen,

Main hazard is dropping the remote into the washing up. :-)


I did look at specialised bathroom TVs: on one model, a particular selling
point was that the remote is not only waterproof, it floats.

Bert

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Brian that's very reassuring. And even if the conditions did eventually
affect the set, with the money saved by not buying a special water- and
steam-proof telly I could probably replace a conventional set several times
if I ever had to...

Bert

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On 02/09/16 15:07, Bert Coules wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Basically you will need NFS server for linux clients...


Apart from material I've downloaded, all my audio and video collection
is on old-fashioned CDs and DVDs (and audio cassettes, VHS tapes and
reel-to-reel tapes). I've considered copying it all onto hard disks but
it's a somewhat daunting thought and in truth I like having the
individual items on my shelves. I ought to do it for the older and more
fragile stuff though.


The CDs and DVDS rip very fast, though they may need format converting
to MP3/MP4.

My pragmatic advice there would be 'if you want to watch it, rip it' and
then its done for good and you can keep the oroigianls as backupop


Tapes - that's a BIG job. can really only be done in real time. Replace
with CD/DVD wherever possible




Away from TV, I'd like to set up a system which would essentially have
the same effect as putting a DAB radio into every room (which of course
I could do, but I'm interested in alternatives): from some centralised
source I'd like to be able to select a channel and control the volume in
each room. The source would only ever have to provide one channel at a
time, though I'd like to be able to play it in more than one room
simultaneously if I wanted.

What would be the simplest way to achieve that?


I am not sure.

If you have a DTV adapter for a PC you can use freeview radio channels,
and there is supposed to be some sort of LAN broadcast protocol but I
never used it. Easer to simply have the PCs tuned to whatever radio
station is wanted over the internet.

Hmm there are several audio over IP options, but I have not played with
any of them. So cannot really offer any useful advice

http://www.videolan.org/vlc/streaming.html

is probably a good place to start.

VLC can read a Digital terrestrial TC or DAB dingle under linux IIRC.
and can act as a LAN server and other VLC instances can pick up the
audio/video stream and reproduce it locally.

Raspberry Pis can run VLC too.

I think I once got this working, but it didnt do what *I* was after.
Which was essentially DLNA serving.





Thanks.

Bert



--
Canada is all right really, though not for the whole weekend.

"Saki"
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On Friday, 2 September 2016 09:30:31 UTC+1, Bert Coules wrote:

is
there any regulation concerning placing a small wall-mounted 12V TV set in a
kitchen?


No

would one of them be overkill for a kitchen? Is there any reason why I
shouldn't use a conventional set?


Splashes, steam, water vapour. And 240v is a no-no if too close to water.


NT


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On 02/09/16 15:13, Bert Coules wrote:
I didn't explain that very well.

I'd like to be able to walk into any room and select what I hear and the
volume I hear it at from a control (wall mounted, maybe?) in that room.

There would ideally be a single centralised source which fed a signal to
every room.

Bert

TBH, this is where Id be thinking of running '100V line' kit round the
house....



--
"In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is
true: it is true because it is powerful."

Lucas Bergkamp
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In article ,
Bert Coules wrote:
I didn't explain that very well.


I'd like to be able to walk into any room and select what I hear and the
volume I hear it at from a control (wall mounted, maybe?) in that room.


There would ideally be a single centralised source which fed a signal to
every room.


I did this with audio many many years ago. I have 5 analogue stereo
circuits running round the house. One carries the audio from the main
sound system in the lounge. The other four have radio tuners - preset to
those I listen to.

The TV in the kitchen has an HDMI feed from the PVR in the lounge - but I
usually have the sound via the analogue system.

The big snag when you go to any form of digital for audio is differing
delays. Very annoying if you can hear two at once.

--
*Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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On 02/09/16 15:22, Bert Coules wrote:
Brian that's very reassuring. And even if the conditions did eventually
affect the set, with the money saved by not buying a special water- and
steam-proof telly I could probably replace a conventional set several
times if I ever had to...

Bert

Think I paid Β£130 for mine.

Yup. Still there at Curries

http://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/tv-and-...27019-pdt.html

Smashing little kitchen set.

I remember when a 19" B & W TV with UHF was the bees knees...

--
"In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is
true: it is true because it is powerful."

Lucas Bergkamp
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Thanks for that but these concerns have been answered by others, I think.

Bert


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In message
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 02/09/16 11:53, Bert Coules wrote:
Thanks again.

The whole smart TV/central server/whole house distribution area is
something I'm trying to get into. I've been looking for a
straightforward guide, online or off.

Bert


Well what I did was pretty simple.


[snip]

Would make a good wiki article maybe.


Please !

--
Jim White
Wimbledon London England
I will not aim for the head
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On Friday, 2 September 2016 15:30:53 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I'd like to be able to walk into any room and select what I hear and the
volume I hear it at from a control (wall mounted, maybe?) in that room.
There would ideally be a single centralised source which fed a signal to
every room.

TBH, this is where Id be thinking of running '100V line' kit round the
house....


That is what I did (I had some spare wiring from a former underfloor heating installation).

Doesn't provide channel changing though. I suppose it might be possible to extend the 'up' and 'down' buttons on the DAB radio round the house too.

Owain
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Owain wrote:

Doesn't provide channel changing though.


That does seem to be a stumbling point. If I put a DAB tuner with its own
amp in a central location, and then find a way to feed the output of the amp
to four or five different rooms (if such a way exists) then I would need
control over the tuner (up/down through preset channels) and the amp (volume
only) from each room. I don't know if that can be done.

Bert

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In article ,
wrote:
On Friday, 2 September 2016 15:30:53 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
I'd like to be able to walk into any room and select what I hear and
the volume I hear it at from a control (wall mounted, maybe?) in
that room. There would ideally be a single centralised source which
fed a signal to every room.

TBH, this is where Id be thinking of running '100V line' kit round the
house....


That is what I did (I had some spare wiring from a former underfloor
heating installation).


Doesn't provide channel changing though. I suppose it might be possible
to extend the 'up' and 'down' buttons on the DAB radio round the house
too.


100v line isn't ideal these days. Not where you want a semblance of
quality.

It dates from the days when amplifiers were very expensive and sound
quality didn't much matter. It tends to be reserved for public address
systems these days.

--
*Funny, I don't remember being absent minded.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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In article ,
Bert Coules wrote:
That does seem to be a stumbling point. If I put a DAB tuner with its
own amp in a central location, and then find a way to feed the output
of the amp to four or five different rooms (if such a way exists) then
I would need control over the tuner (up/down through preset channels)
and the amp (volume only) from each room. I don't know if that can be
done.


How many radio channels do you regularly listen to? I came up with 4 here.
And FreeView tuners are cheap as chips. I still have tuners on the main
system I can select to anything I want.

--
*One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.


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Dave Plowman wrote:

How many radio channels do you regularly listen to?


That's a very good point. Certainly no more than three or four regularly.

And FreeView tuners are cheap as chips.


Are you suggesting one Freeview tuner for each radio station? It would be
necessary to split (and perhaps amplify) the incoming aerial signal, but I
imagine that could be done.

I could feed each tuner to a different input on a central amp, then the
individual room controls would only need to work on the amp in order to
change both channel (ie input) and volume.

It's slightly messy and rather depends on the control system, but it would
surely work. Thanks.

Bert

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On 02/09/16 16:20, Jim White wrote:
In message
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 02/09/16 11:53, Bert Coules wrote:
Thanks again.

The whole smart TV/central server/whole house distribution area is
something I'm trying to get into. I've been looking for a
straightforward guide, online or off.

Bert


Well what I did was pretty simple.


[snip]

Would make a good wiki article maybe.


Please !

Problem is: mine is already built. Need someone with an old XP style
machine to do it so that every step is documented



--
Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead
to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.
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On 02/09/2016 09:30, Bert Coules wrote:
I've searched around for the answer to this but haven't found it as yet:
is there any regulation concerning placing a small wall-mounted 12V TV
set in a kitchen?


no.

I have a blank area above a draining board, partly protected from
splashes and steam by a 6" deep shelf which runs the length of that
wall. It seems like the obvious place to mount a smallish TV, say 17"
or so. There are specially-designed water- and steam-proof sets
intended for bathrooms but would one of them be overkill for a kitchen?


Probably - so long as its in a location where its not going to get
splashed all the time it should be fine.

Is there any reason why I shouldn't use a conventional set?


Not that I can think of.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/
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On 02/09/2016 15:07, Bert Coules wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Basically you will need NFS server for linux clients...


I would suggest the easiest way is with an off the shelf NAS box
(essentially its a small Linux box all ready to go and setup for file
sharing). Most have DLNA support as standard these days.

Apart from material I've downloaded, all my audio and video collection
is on old-fashioned CDs and DVDs (and audio cassettes, VHS tapes and
reel-to-reel tapes). I've considered copying it all onto hard disks but
it's a somewhat daunting thought and in truth I like having the
individual items on my shelves. I ought to do it for the older and more
fragile stuff though.


CDs are easy - get a copy of Exact Audio Copy (any number of other
similar progs out there - many of them free). That will rip music CDs to
files, and the better ones will also look up all the track names for you
online so you get sensible names etc.

For DVDs get a copy of Handbrake. That will rip DVDs to a single mk4 file.

(you will need a copy of AnyDVD to make the whole process easy -
especially if you want to rip blueray discs)

Anything on analogue media is a tad more tedious! You will need to
digitise each in turn, and possibly have the occasional other hoop to
jump through for copy protected VHS recordings.

Away from TV, I'd like to set up a system which would essentially have
the same effect as putting a DAB radio into every room (which of course
I could do, but I'm interested in alternatives): from some centralised
source I'd like to be able to select a channel and control the volume in
each room. The source would only ever have to provide one channel at a
time, though I'd like to be able to play it in more than one room
simultaneously if I wanted.

What would be the simplest way to achieve that?


There are plenty of Raspberry Pi based streamer projects that can do
this kind of stuff. (although you may want an add on sound card for it
to get the best hifi from it - the default PWM audio is "ok" but not
stunning)



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John.

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The Natural Philosopher wrote:

My pragmatic advice there would be 'if you want to watch it, rip it' and
then its done for good and you can keep the originals as backup.


Thanks. It would certainly free a good deal of shelf space and I can see
the convenience, but I'm still slightly dubious about the long-term
reliability of hard drives.

Tapes - that's a BIG job. can really only be done in real time. Replace
with CD/DVD wherever possible


Alas that's quite impossible with my collection, virtually none of which
consists of commercial recordings. But as I said, I would like to do this,
as and when time permits.

What would be the simplest way to achieve that?

I'm not sure.


For simplicity, I rather like Dave Plowman's idea of using several tuners,
each permanently set to a particular channel. If all are connected to a
single amp, then the individual room remotes only need to be able to control
the amp in order to change both channel and volume.

Bert




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On 02/09/2016 16:36, Bert Coules wrote:
Owain wrote:

Doesn't provide channel changing though.


That does seem to be a stumbling point. If I put a DAB tuner with its
own amp in a central location, and then find a way to feed the output of
the amp to four or five different rooms (if such a way exists) then I
would need control over the tuner (up/down through preset channels) and
the amp (volume only) from each room. I don't know if that can be done.


Would you be happy to use a smart phone or tablet to do the controlling?

For an out of the box solution you could look at the Sonos speakers.
They do a very good job of keeping in sync while streaming to multiple
speakers over a mixture of ethernet and wifi.


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John.

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On 02/09/2016 15:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/09/16 15:07, Bert Coules wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Basically you will need NFS server for linux clients...


Apart from material I've downloaded, all my audio and video collection
is on old-fashioned CDs and DVDs (and audio cassettes, VHS tapes and
reel-to-reel tapes). I've considered copying it all onto hard disks but
it's a somewhat daunting thought and in truth I like having the
individual items on my shelves. I ought to do it for the older and more
fragile stuff though.


The CDs and DVDS rip very fast, though they may need format converting
to MP3/MP4.

My pragmatic advice there would be 'if you want to watch it, rip it' and
then its done for good and you can keep the oroigianls as backupop


Tapes - that's a BIG job. can really only be done in real time. Replace
with CD/DVD wherever possible




Away from TV, I'd like to set up a system which would essentially have
the same effect as putting a DAB radio into every room (which of course
I could do, but I'm interested in alternatives): from some centralised
source I'd like to be able to select a channel and control the volume in
each room. The source would only ever have to provide one channel at a
time, though I'd like to be able to play it in more than one room
simultaneously if I wanted.

What would be the simplest way to achieve that?


I am not sure.

If you have a DTV adapter for a PC you can use freeview radio channels,
and there is supposed to be some sort of LAN broadcast protocol but I
never used it. Easer to simply have the PCs tuned to whatever radio
station is wanted over the internet.

Hmm there are several audio over IP options, but I have not played with
any of them. So cannot really offer any useful advice

http://www.videolan.org/vlc/streaming.html

is probably a good place to start.

VLC can read a Digital terrestrial TC or DAB dingle under linux IIRC.
and can act as a LAN server and other VLC instances can pick up the
audio/video stream and reproduce it locally.

Raspberry Pis can run VLC too.

I think I once got this working, but it didnt do what *I* was after.
Which was essentially DLNA serving.


Or cheat and download the tape albums you have...


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John.

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John Rumm wrote:

CDs are easy...


Thanks for this, and the DVD-ripping advice.

There are plenty of Raspberry Pi based streamer projects that can do
this kind of stuff...


I'll investigate that, thanks again.

Bert

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John Rumm wrote:

Would you be happy to use a smart phone or tablet to do the controlling?


Only if I could have one permanently kept in each room. But if I were to do
that, could I use them as (very) remote controls? How would that work?

Software permitting, perhaps I could have the input selection options
displayed as "Radio channel 1, 2, 3..." and so on (only with the actual
names) rather than "Amp input 1, 2, 3...") I should like that.

Bert

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Dave,

I've just seen a possible drawback to the multiple-tuners approach.

Given this setup: tuners -- amp - speaker distribution hub --
separate rooms

then using individual remotes to switch between tuners (and therefore radio
channels) would work, but I wouldn't have individual-room control over the
volume: the output would be audible in every location simultaneously.
That's not really ideal.

Bert

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