I wonder if someone can advise please: stud wall around kitchen -
fire regs?

In a friend's 1960s house the kitchen is separated from the living
room by a stud wall. There is a doorway between the two but the door
has been removed. Both rooms have doors to the outside.

The stud wall is wood on both sides (plywood in kitchen, wood
panelling in living room) so it is not fire proof. I imagine it ought
to be firepoof and the door should be put back.

Would it be OK to replace the wood panelling on the living room side
with plasterboard? That would be much simpler than adding
plasterboard on the kitchen side.

I'd like to get an informal opinion from the group before approaching
BC.

Robert

There's no obligation to bring up old work to current BR standards.
However if the wall was being upgraded to current regs, that would be
plasterboard both sides plus sound insulation internally.

Are you sure there isn't plasterboard behind the wooden paneling?

How are these 2 rooms divided from the rest of the house?

If they're adequately separated from the rest of the house, this
partition might be regarded as decorative rather than functional -
i.e. it's a kitchen-diner.

If the wall was upgraded/replaced, possibly rules on adequate
ventilation might also kick in.

On Feb 11, 12:07*pm, " wrote:
There's no obligation to bring up old work to current BR standards.
However if the wall was being upgraded to current regs, that would be
plasterboard both sides plus sound insulation internally.

Are you sure there isn't plasterboard behind the wooden paneling?

No there's nothing in there, except pipes and cabling.

How are these 2 rooms divided from the rest of the house?

Hall (and stairs) are separated from living room by glazed door and
brick wall.
Living room has door to back garden, door to kitchen and door from
hall.
Kitchen has door to garden and door (missing) from living room.


If they're adequately separated from the rest of the house, this
partition might be regarded as decorative rather than functional -
i.e. it's a kitchen-diner.

If the wall was upgraded/replaced, possibly rules on adequate
ventilation might also kick in.

Hmm, I see, thanks.

It's quite odd the way this BC stuff works. You'd like to do a small
improvement but you have to choose between complete complicance and
leaving it alone.



Robert

On Feb 11, 12:42*pm, RobertL wrote:
On Feb 11, 12:07*pm, " wrote:

There's no obligation to bring up old work to current BR standards.
However if the wall was being upgraded to current regs, that would be
plasterboard both sides plus sound insulation internally.
Are you sure there isn't plasterboard behind the wooden paneling?

No there's nothing in there, except pipes and cabling.

How are these 2 rooms divided from the rest of the house?


Sorry, I was not very clear : the "kitchen diner" occupies the
whole of the ground floor apart from stairs/hall. It is separateed
from them by a glazed door and brick wall. The understairs is lined
with PB.

It doesn't sound like upgrading this wall will really improve fire
protection. Most likely source of the fire is the kitchen, and with no
door to the dining area it's hardly likely to go unnoticed if the ding
area is occupied.

It might be more worthwhile to upgrade the glazed door between the
dining area and the rest of the house - for the possibility of a
nighttime fire originating in this area. And mains-operated smoke and
heat detectors.

On Feb 11, 1:13*pm, " wrote:
It doesn't sound like upgrading this wall will really improve fire
protection. Most likely source of the fire is the kitchen, and with no
door to the dining area it's hardly likely to go unnoticed if the ding
area is occupied.

It might be more worthwhile to upgrade the glazed door between the
dining area and the rest of the house - for the possibility of a
nighttime fire originating in this area. And mains-operated smoke and
heat detectors.

now i think of it, several houses in the same area with idential
design, have had this wall removed making the whole place open plan.
Maybe I fret too much :-)


thank you for your helpful comments.

Robert

RobertL posted
It's quite odd the way this BC stuff works. You'd like to do a small
improvement but you have to choose between complete complicance and
leaving it alone.

So don't notify them. For a trivial job like this it isn't necessary.

--
Les

On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 06:08:13 -0800 (PST), RobertL wrote:

On Feb 11, 1:13*pm, " wrote:
It doesn't sound like upgrading this wall will really improve fire
protection. Most likely source of the fire is the kitchen, and with no
door to the dining area it's hardly likely to go unnoticed if the ding
area is occupied.

It might be more worthwhile to upgrade the glazed door between the
dining area and the rest of the house - for the possibility of a
nighttime fire originating in this area. And mains-operated smoke and
heat detectors.

now i think of it, several houses in the same area with idential
design, have had this wall removed making the whole place open plan.
Maybe I fret too much :-)

My kitchen to dining room is an open arch; I have put in a wall to reduce
the opening but used timber and plywood. I don't see this as contravening
any regs. as there was never a door there in the first place: the opening
was about 5' wide and it's now 3' 6", allowing space for another unit.
If it's not OK, I'll just take out the added bit and have the unit sticking
out!

There's no point in worrying about fire resistance of a partial division
within an open area.
--
Peter.
You don't understand Newton's Third Law of Motion?
It's not rocket science, you know.

So don't notify them. For a trivial job like this it isn't necessary.

The downside is potentially invalidating fire insurance.

" posted

So don't notify them. For a trivial job like this it isn't necessary.

The downside is potentially invalidating fire insurance.

I dunno how that would happen, when the insurance company wouldn't know
what the structure was like before, wouldn't know what it was like
after, and wouldn't ever be aware that any work had even been done.
Insurance companies only have the vaguest idea what houses are made of.

--
Les
If people know by taking part in protests there is a danger of being searched,
they should think about not putting themselves in that position.

I dunno how that would happen, when the insurance company wouldn't know
what the structure was like before, wouldn't know what it was like
after, and wouldn't ever be aware that any work had even been done.
Insurance companies only have the vaguest idea what houses are made of.

You're right that insurance companies aren't experts in building
construction, and for a small claim they're likely to pay up. But for
large claims they engage the services of companies that specialise in
this area.

On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 04:42:41 -0800 (PST), a certain chimpanzee,
RobertL randomly hit the keyboard and
produced:

It's quite odd the way this BC stuff works. You'd like to do a small
improvement but you have to choose between complete complicance and
leaving it alone.

As long as you're not changing a building's use, the work you do must
comply with the current requirements, and any work you do mustn't make
the building less compliant than before the work starts.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed"?

On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 03:31:14 -0800 (PST), a certain chimpanzee,
RobertL randomly hit the keyboard and
produced:

In a friend's 1960s house the kitchen is separated from the living
room by a stud wall. There is a doorway between the two but the door
has been removed. Both rooms have doors to the outside.

Would it be OK to replace the wood panelling on the living room side
with plasterboard? That would be much simpler than adding
plasterboard on the kitchen side.

Generally speaking, a two storey dwellinghouse doesn't require a lot
in the way of fire resistance to partitions. Provided that the ground
floor rooms have access to the hall or an external door, and the first
floor rooms have windows big enough to get out of, then there's no
requirement for fire resistance around the stairs, much less between
rooms.

A wall lined with plywood suggests to me that there is an outside
chance that it may be structural. Does it butt up to a long masonry
wall, or do the floor joists rest on this stud wall? If so check with
an engineer before removing.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed"?

On Feb 11, 8:47*pm, Hugo Nebula abuse@localhost wrote:
On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 03:31:14 -0800 (PST), a certain chimpanzee,
RobertL randomly hit the keyboard and
produced:

In a friend's 1960s house the kitchen is separated from the living
room by a stud wall. *There is a doorway between the two but the door
has been removed. *Both rooms have doors to the outside.
Would it be OK to replace the wood panelling on the living room side
with plasterboard? *That would be much simpler than adding
plasterboard on the kitchen side.

Generally speaking, a two storey dwellinghouse doesn't require a lot
in the way of fire resistance to partitions. Provided that the ground
floor rooms have access to the hall or an external door, and the first
floor rooms have windows big enough to get out of, then there's no
requirement for fire resistance around the stairs, much less between
rooms.

A wall lined with plywood suggests to me that there is an outside
chance that it may be structural. Does it butt up to a long masonry
wall, or do the floor joists rest on this stud wall? If so check with
an engineer before removing.


It's built just standing on the floor joists with no support
underneath.

it is two story with doors/windows as you describe so it sounds all
OK.

many thanks,


Robert

On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 06:39:46 -0800 (PST), a certain chimpanzee,
RobertL randomly hit the keyboard and
produced:

On Feb 11, 8:47*pm, Hugo Nebula abuse@localhost wrote:

A wall lined with plywood suggests to me that there is an outside
chance that it may be structural. Does it butt up to a long masonry
wall, or do the floor joists rest on this stud wall? If so check with
an engineer before removing.

It's built just standing on the floor joists with no support
underneath.

I meant the floor joists above (the first floor).
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed"?