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Old October 12th 04, 11:19 AM
coder
 
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Default IKEA kitchen wall cabinet hanging on plaster wall without stud

Hi,

Advice appreciated for the following task:

I'm installing an IKEA kitchen. One of the walls which will hold some
wall cabinets is plaster with studs. The IKEA wall cabinets each have
2 mounting brackets in fixed locations ('fixed' except for very minor
adjustment). Since the wall studs are not positioned so as to allow
each of the cabinet brackets to be screwed to a stud, what is the best
way to achieve a strong fixing? These are fairly heavy cabinets, even
before loading.

Do I need battens or some kind of special fixing behind the units to
spread the load across the studs?

Thanks in advance,
Bill

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Old October 12th 04, 01:30 PM
Dave Liquorice
 
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On 12 Oct 2004 03:19:34 -0700, coder wrote:

Do I need battens or some kind of special fixing behind the units to
spread the load across the studs?


You could try the metal "hollow wall anchors", the type with a machine
screw that pulls the back end of the plug in and spreads out a
multi-fingered metal flower on to the back of the plasterboard.

How thick is the plaster board, 9.5mm might bow over time under the
load, though most load from a wall cupboard is vertical rather than a
horizontal pull.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



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Old October 13th 04, 12:08 AM
Ed Sirett
 
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On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:30:40 +0100, Dave Liquorice wrote:

On 12 Oct 2004 03:19:34 -0700, coder wrote:

Do I need battens or some kind of special fixing behind the units to
spread the load across the studs?


You could try the metal "hollow wall anchors", the type with a machine
screw that pulls the back end of the plug in and spreads out a
multi-fingered metal flower on to the back of the plasterboard.

How thick is the plaster board, 9.5mm might bow over time under the
load, though most load from a wall cupboard is vertical rather than a
horizontal pull.


I may be a bit over cautious but these are are highly loaded fixings (more
so that say a radiator). Whilst the cabinets in a run can help each other
out they only have two top corner fixings per box.
I would suggest that you put a peice of 2x2 right the way across the top
of the run and anchor that to the studs with 80mm-100mm screws.
Fit the boxes with the normal fixings e.g Nailex or even just wall plugs.
( this gives a bit of pull to keep the boxes back to the wall.
The drill up through the roof of each box at about 150mm spacing,
countersink lightly and screw up into the batten with 50mm screws.
If you really want to carry on in the spirit of IKEA you can put little
plastic domes on the screw heads. 8-)

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html


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Old October 13th 04, 01:57 AM
Dave Plowman (News)
 
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In article om,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
Do I need battens or some kind of special fixing behind the units to
spread the load across the studs?


You could try the metal "hollow wall anchors", the type with a machine
screw that pulls the back end of the plug in and spreads out a
multi-fingered metal flower on to the back of the plasterboard.


I'd *really* not trust those on their own. A wall cupboard can be very
heavily loaded - it's the convenient place to store crockery. And tinned
food.

I'd carefully cut away the plasterboard and let in a wood batten flush -
preferably decent plywood.

--
*Dancing is a perpendicular expression of a horizontal desire *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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Old October 13th 04, 09:39 PM
coder
 
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Many thanks for the suggestions.

Looks like a pair of battens is in order, one underneath to take some
of the weight of the units, and one set at the height of the unit
brackets. I may still use anchor fittings on the upper batten.

It is interesting to me that so many of these 'diy' cabinets use fixed
position brackets when partition walls and plaster board are so common
- the odds of finding a stud are not good... I'm also surprised that
there seem to be no specific products available to suit this task
(perhaps a long metal bracket with movable hooks for modular
cabinets). Still I may fashion my own!

Thanks again.


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Old October 13th 04, 09:48 PM
Dave Liquorice
 
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On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 00:08:30 +0100, Ed Sirett wrote:

I may be a bit over cautious but these are are highly loaded fixings


Think of the vector for the load, most will be straight down, not a
great deal is pull.

Whilst the cabinets in a run can help each other out they only have
two top corner fixings per box.


True, in the box, the brackets I've seen have 3 holes per bracket so 6
fixings to the substrate.

I would suggest that you put a peice of 2x2 right the way across the
top of the run and anchor that to the studs with 80mm-100mm screws.
Fit the boxes with the normal fixings e.g Nailex or even just wall
plugs. ( this gives a bit of pull to keep the boxes back to the
wall. The drill up through the roof of each box at about 150mm
spacing, countersink lightly and screw up into the batten with 50mm
screws.


I think I'd rather "sit" the cupboards on a batten rather than try and
hang them, why fight gravity? You're not going to see a 1 x 3/4" or so
batten underneath the cupboards. Those little 2 screw angle brackets
will stop the cupboard pulling forward and off the batten and any
decent PB fixing will hold the top in.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



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Old October 13th 04, 09:53 PM
Dave Liquorice
 
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On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 01:57:30 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

You could try the metal "hollow wall anchors", ... plasterboard.


I'd *really* not trust those on their own.


The plaster board will fail first, of all the PB fixings I've used
these are the only ones that I have never had fail or the PB come to
that. I didn't use them on the cupboards hung on PB here as there
wasn't the clearance between the PB and the rubble stone wall. I used
the plastic "two petal" toggle type. Cupboards are still up PB hasn't
distorted but then these cupboards aren't heavly loaded, just pots and
pans.



--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



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Old October 14th 04, 01:19 AM
Dave Plowman (News)
 
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In article ,
coder wrote:
It is interesting to me that so many of these 'diy' cabinets use fixed
position brackets when partition walls and plaster board are so common
- the odds of finding a stud are not good... I'm also surprised that
there seem to be no specific products available to suit this task
(perhaps a long metal bracket with movable hooks for modular
cabinets). Still I may fashion my own!



I've certainly seem ones where they have a full length metal strip that
the adjustable fixing brackets clip into. You could drill holes anywhere
along it to line up with the studs. Dunno the make, though.

--
*If your feet smell and your nose runs, you're built upside down.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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Old October 14th 04, 01:21 AM
Dave Plowman (News)
 
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In article om,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
The plaster board will fail first, of all the PB fixings I've used
these are the only ones that I have never had fail or the PB come to
that. I didn't use them on the cupboards hung on PB here as there
wasn't the clearance between the PB and the rubble stone wall. I used
the plastic "two petal" toggle type. Cupboards are still up PB hasn't
distorted but then these cupboards aren't heavly loaded, just pots and
pans.


I had four wall cupboards fixed to a brick wall pull out. They were rather
full of heavy stuff. I replaced them with spur shelving and simply added
ends and doors. They're definitely not going anywhere...

--
*Organized Crime Is Alive And Well; It's Called Auto Insurance. *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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Old October 14th 04, 08:53 PM
Ed Sirett
 
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Default

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:48:46 +0100, Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 00:08:30 +0100, Ed Sirett wrote:

I may be a bit over cautious but these are are highly loaded fixings


Think of the vector for the load, most will be straight down, not a
great deal is pull.

Whilst the cabinets in a run can help each other out they only have
two top corner fixings per box.


True, in the box, the brackets I've seen have 3 holes per bracket so 6
fixings to the substrate.


No the two little holes fix the bracket to the cabinet sides with over
sized grub screws. The big hole at the back is for the single fixing to
the wall and has a square washer betwen your screw and their bracket.



I would suggest that you put a peice of 2x2 right the way across the
top of the run and anchor that to the studs with 80mm-100mm screws.
Fit the boxes with the normal fixings e.g Nailex or even just wall
plugs. ( this gives a bit of pull to keep the boxes back to the
wall. The drill up through the roof of each box at about 150mm
spacing, countersink lightly and screw up into the batten with 50mm
screws.


I think I'd rather "sit" the cupboards on a batten rather than try and
hang them, why fight gravity?

Because the 2x2 would be down at pelmet level and get int the way of the
under cupboard lights (?) and you would not be able to use a single peice
of timber for as you would over an fan bridge cupboard.

You're not going to see a 1 x 3/4" or so
batten underneath the cupboards. Those little 2 screw angle brackets
will stop the cupboard pulling forward and off the batten and any
decent PB fixing will hold the top in.


Yes, I guess that would work.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html




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