On 21/04/15 10:15, Bob Eager wrote:
On Tue, 21 Apr 2015 08:56:29 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

On 21/04/15 02:16, MM wrote:
On Mon, 20 Apr 2015 07:02:06 +1000, "john james"
wrote:

You need to scale them back a lot.

A HECK of a lot! (Sorry, Tim.) Since I dropped 5 kilos my blood figures
have improved enormously, especially the HbA1C.

and watching like
a hawk on MyFatnessPal.

I lost more than 20%, from 70KG down to 55KG just by eating less.

And that is the ONLY way! Within 24 hours of eating less my scales show
a reduction. At the moment I'm trying to stick to 1500 cals a day,
though it's bloody difficult as I really do enjoy food and cooking it.
Hobby of mine. I'm always hungry. But I was always hungry when I
weighed 90 kg at only 168cm and stuffed myself with fast food,
cream cakes, and crisps. Weight down to 76kg now.

What sort of calories per day were you on?

Update, Tim. I have been putting on a bit of weight as I haven't been
sticking to the limits recently (various pains and comfort eating).

For the last week or so I've been on 1600 caloroes and kept to it. Lost
3lb, being careful to weigh under same conditions, same time of day etc.

MyFitnessPal again.

Thanks Bob.


I think MyFatnessPal is the key. With it you can watch what you're doing.

It's also possible that drink is a contributing factor - I like a few of
an evening, which is generally a spirit with a diet mixer or Coke Life.
The mixer's not got much in, but a couple of trebles of 40% probably
adds up. That's high stress, mostly due to external ******y but the
terminally stupid.

It would not take too much of a tweak to pull it down to maybe 1400 -
but if I go much lower, I feel feel hungry and irritable and that won't
last 5 minutes.

On 21/04/15 02:19, MM wrote:

Only this morning as I was driving to Screwfix for shopping I said
over and over, how I wish, I wish, I wish I were 40 years younger!
It's a real bugger growing old.

If I had one wish from the genie, it would be this:

To reset my life to 18 (and go back to 1986) but knowing everything I
know now.

Some mistakes were unavoidable and/or I could not avoid them again
because it would be too much for my basic character and intelligence.

But wow, all the stuff I could do so much better knowing what I know now!

And I'd start by crossing out Physics on the UCCA form and put Computer
Science (with a strong electronics component).

I'd also get to a few concerts before the band members snuffed it!

On 21/04/2015 10:59, Tim Watts wrote:
On 21/04/15 02:19, MM wrote:

Only this morning as I was driving to Screwfix for shopping I said
over and over, how I wish, I wish, I wish I were 40 years younger!
It's a real bugger growing old.

If I had one wish from the genie, it would be this:

To reset my life to 18 (and go back to 1986) but knowing everything I
know now.

Some mistakes were unavoidable and/or I could not avoid them again
because it would be too much for my basic character and intelligence.

But wow, all the stuff I could do so much better knowing what I know now!

And I'd start by crossing out Physics on the UCCA form and put Computer
Science (with a strong electronics component).

I'd also get to a few concerts before the band members snuffed it!

I think that's the standard wish of most of us with "significant life
experience". OOI, I'd cross-out Electronic Engineering on that form and
replace it with Medicine - but that would have required some different
choices 2 years earlier.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote
MM wrote

Don't you just hate people who never put on weight, eat what
they like and are as thin as a rake? I've known a few in my lifetime.

They don't exist.

Corse they do.

You can't put on weight without food.

Nothing like what he was talking about.

In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote
MM wrote

Don't you just hate people who never put on weight, eat what
they like and are as thin as a rake? I've known a few in my lifetime.

They don't exist.

Corse they do.

You can't put on weight without food.

Nothing like what he was talking about.

Another example of Wodney's crystal ball. It's probably worn oval.

--
*Time is fun when you're having flies... Kermit

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 21/04/15 11:07, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Tim Watts
wrote:

I'd also get to a few concerts before the band members snuffed it!

I on the other hand would avoid them. All of them.



Why - did you go deaf?

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .
In article , Tim Watts
wrote:

And I'd start by crossing out Physics on the UCCA form and put Computer
Science (with a strong electronics component).

That option wouldn't have existed for me. No such undergrad courses
existed.

Me too.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Dave Plowman (News) wrote
MM wrote

Don't you just hate people who never put on weight, eat what
they like and are as thin as a rake? I've known a few in my lifetime.

They don't exist.

Corse they do.

You can't put on weight without food.

Nothing like what he was talking about.

Another example of Wodney's crystal ball.

Don’t need any crystal ball to see what he was talking about.

On Tue, 21 Apr 2015 10:59:10 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

On 21/04/15 02:19, MM wrote:

Only this morning as I was driving to Screwfix for shopping I said over
and over, how I wish, I wish, I wish I were 40 years younger!
It's a real bugger growing old.

If I had one wish from the genie, it would be this:

To reset my life to 18 (and go back to 1986) but knowing everything I
know now.

Some mistakes were unavoidable and/or I could not avoid them again
because it would be too much for my basic character and intelligence.

But wow, all the stuff I could do so much better knowing what I know
now!

And I'd start by crossing out Physics on the UCCA form and put Computer
Science (with a strong electronics component).

Except you'd be hard pressed to find a Computer Science degree that year,
I think.


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On 21/04/15 12:25, Bob Eager wrote:
On Tue, 21 Apr 2015 10:59:10 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

On 21/04/15 02:19, MM wrote:

Only this morning as I was driving to Screwfix for shopping I said over
and over, how I wish, I wish, I wish I were 40 years younger!
It's a real bugger growing old.

If I had one wish from the genie, it would be this:

To reset my life to 18 (and go back to 1986) but knowing everything I
know now.

Some mistakes were unavoidable and/or I could not avoid them again
because it would be too much for my basic character and intelligence.

But wow, all the stuff I could do so much better knowing what I know
now!

And I'd start by crossing out Physics on the UCCA form and put Computer
Science (with a strong electronics component).

Except you'd be hard pressed to find a Computer Science degree that year,
I think.



York - I know because I did their elective course in Pascal

Bob Eager wrote:

On Tue, 21 Apr 2015 10:59:10 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

And I'd start by crossing out Physics on the UCCA form and put Computer
Science (with a strong electronics component).

Except you'd be hard pressed to find a Computer Science degree that year,
I think.

Simply because I wasn't too keen on chemistry, my A level
subjects were physics, maths and further maths. That wasn't my
best choice - resulting in an A in physics, E in maths and fail
in further maths. This was not a great surprise, and I had set up
my UCCA choices to cope with this. OTOH it may have been that
only with the double exposure to maths did I get to scrape
through at all.

One thing I never realised was how much of a university
engineering course is actually maths. There is just so much that
I never understood, and even the bits I did grasp are lost in the
mists of time. I remember my disappointment, having chosen a
"Machines" option (1), to be presented with a large matrix and
being told that, for the purposes of this analysis, the design
details were pretty irrelevant, all large machines reduced to
this grid of numbers.

It was also clearly my personal ceiling for physics - I had to
re-sit in my first year at university.

I think I had managed A level on what (to me) seemed like common
sense, and managed to avoid too many proofs. The university focus
was rather different, and additionally I suppose I allowed myself
to think I could get away with less revision than it actually
needed.

Luckily, I managed eventually to find myself in a field where, as
one of the old hands once told me, "All you need is Ohms law and
25 years' experience."

I was fortunate enough to find myself in some positions where my
engineering, organisational and computing skills were all able to
be used at once. Sadly, others were less rewarding, and
eventually VR was very welcome.

I never had a calculator with buttons more complicated than
square root, and that was quite sufficient for my needs.

(1) This was actually a second choice as I had originally
selected Computer Science, but this was over subscribed, and I
was persuaded to think again.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

On Tue, 21 Apr 2015 13:01:26 +0100, Chris J Dixon wrote:

Simply because I wasn't too keen on chemistry, my A level subjects were
physics, maths and further maths. That wasn't my best choice - resulting
in an A in physics, E in maths and fail in further maths. This was not a
great surprise, and I had set up my UCCA choices to cope with this. OTOH
it may have been that only with the double exposure to maths did I get
to scrape through at all.

I had to have two goes due to a senile maths master (really; the first
time, two out of 14 passed the A level, and the second time 3 out of 16;
the second time, 2 of the 3 were a friend and I, and we self-studied).

My science was Nuffield Physical Science, which was fine if a bit rough
round the edges (only the second year of its existence).

One thing I never realised was how much of a university engineering
course is actually maths. There is just so much that I never understood,
and even the bits I did grasp are lost in the mists of time. I remember
my disappointment, having chosen a "Machines" option (1), to be
presented with a large matrix and being told that, for the purposes of
this analysis, the design details were pretty irrelevant, all large
machines reduced to this grid of numbers.

I had the same problem with electronics.

It was also clearly my personal ceiling for physics - I had to re-sit in
my first year at university.

It didn't kick in until the second year for me.

Luckily, I managed eventually to find myself in a field where, as one of
the old hands once told me, "All you need is Ohms law and 25 years'
experience."

Same here. I got through the degree on some very selective marks, and a
very good project (I won the prize) [1]. Then I did a 'conversion'
Master's to CS at Essex (very hard work but fun all the way). At the
time, only two places offered that course and I was offered a place by
both. I rejected Imperial as their course was too basic.

[1] I modified a CPU (SSI technology) to change parts of its instruction
set.

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On 21/04/2015 11:19, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote
MM wrote

Don't you just hate people who never put on weight, eat what
they like and are as thin as a rake? I've known a few in my lifetime.

They don't exist.

Corse they do.

You can't put on weight without food.

Nothing like what he was talking about.

Another example of Wodney's crystal ball. It's probably worn oval.



had a few off those where I worked in the steel industry, three brothers
all ate like horses and never put on any weight. One of them went to the
doctors but there was nothing wrong with him. One of them was called
"Prick and Ribs" and my god was he!

---
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On Friday, 17 April 2015 22:44:33 UTC+1, tony sayer wrote:

At 63 the old arthritis is causing a bit of grief
some of it dodgy hip joints, runs in the family.

Really?

But a daily dose of ibuprofen helps keep it in check but no, not quite
as energetic and agile as I once was in the early 50's.

Back got a bit buggered in an accident some years ago as did the neck
but in that I very nearly died so I'm grateful to be still around.

Welcome to older age mate;!...

Colchicine and allopurinol should easy your pain greatly.

On Saturday, 18 April 2015 16:25:31 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
"Malcolm Race" wrote in message
...

although I played golf regularly

That is not a sport, an exercise.or DIY.

You mean he gets someone else to hit his balls with a stick?
He should get a job as your next apprentice. Would it upset you if he was making a profit on his hobby?

On Tue, 21 Apr 2015 19:19:01 +0100, critcher
wrote:

On 21/04/2015 11:19, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote
MM wrote

Don't you just hate people who never put on weight, eat what
they like and are as thin as a rake? I've known a few in my lifetime.

They don't exist.

Corse they do.

You can't put on weight without food.

Nothing like what he was talking about.

Another example of Wodney's crystal ball. It's probably worn oval.



had a few off those where I worked in the steel industry, three brothers
all ate like horses and never put on any weight. One of them went to the
doctors but there was nothing wrong with him. One of them was called
"Prick and Ribs" and my god was he!

I saw a woman at the bus stop the other day. She was early middle-age
and looked reasonably healthy. But my God was she thin! She literally
looked like a skeleton with a very thin covering of skin. Every
visible part of her face, neck, hands was incredibly thin. Yet she has
survived this long and presumably will survive another few years yet.

MM

"MM" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 20 Apr 2015 07:02:06 +1000, "john james"
wrote:



"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 19/04/15 12:54, Bob Eager wrote:
I used MFP for quite a while and 1600 is both do-able - and works.

I started at 294lb in June and was at 238lb by Christmas. My
'allowance'
was initially 1750 kcal but dropped to 1550 as I lost weight and burned
a
bit less.

I'm 262lbs and the best I've managed it to knock 4lbs off.

That is because you haven't scaled back the calories enough.

I'm going to try scaling back the calories a tiny bit

You need to scale them back a lot.

A HECK of a lot! (Sorry, Tim.) Since I dropped 5 kilos my blood
figures have improved enormously, especially the HbA1C.

and watching like
a hawk on MyFatnessPal.

I lost more than 20%, from 70KG down to 55KG just by eating less.

And that is the ONLY way!

No ****?


--
Adam

On Tue, 21 Apr 2015 08:56:29 +0100, Tim Watts
wrote:

On 21/04/15 02:16, MM wrote:
On Mon, 20 Apr 2015 07:02:06 +1000, "john james"
wrote:

You need to scale them back a lot.

A HECK of a lot! (Sorry, Tim.) Since I dropped 5 kilos my blood
figures have improved enormously, especially the HbA1C.

and watching like
a hawk on MyFatnessPal.

I lost more than 20%, from 70KG down to 55KG just by eating less.

And that is the ONLY way! Within 24 hours of eating less my scales
show a reduction. At the moment I'm trying to stick to 1500 cals a
day, though it's bloody difficult as I really do enjoy food and
cooking it. Hobby of mine. I'm always hungry. But I was always hungry
when I weighed 90 kg at only 168cm and stuffed myself with fast food,
cream cakes, and crisps. Weight down to 76kg now.

What sort of calories per day were you on?

Well.... I dunno now. Never kept any records. But I reckon I routinely
swallowed 2600 cals a day 20 years ago.

MM

On 21 Apr 2015 09:13:48 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:

On Tue, 21 Apr 2015 02:28:21 +0100, MM wrote:

Ah! I'm retired. I wouldn't work now if you paid me! After 44 years of
grafting I reckon I've had enough of work. Besides, I have so many
hobbies, including DIY, I could never find the time for working.

I'm looking forward to this.

I'm
really enjoying doing what the heck I like when I like without all the
stress of office politics in an environment where I was treated like a
granddad as the oldest staff member. Heck, I was older than my managers!

I'm older than nearly everyone; the problem is the incompetence of
management. What this means is that other people invent silly rules, and
he (being weak) just agrees. It gets really annoying sometimes.

Two things really ****ed me off: annual appraisals, and meetings.
Especially the latter made all the junior management feel so
self-important and they had meetings all the ruddy time. I never
wanted to become a manager, but preferred to work on my projects
(computer programmer), which was far more interesting than organising
people. I've never had a lot of time for managers, I'm afraid.

MM

On Tue, 21 Apr 2015 10:52:06 +0100, Tim Watts
wrote:

On 21/04/15 10:14, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
MM writes:
Heck, I was older than my managers!

That starts happening at about age 40 IME, and I think all my managers
since I was that age have been younger than me.


I'm older than my manager. I find no issue because he's a damn nice
bloke who knows what he's doing technically (slightly different specialism).

Also, because after a couple of goes at it, I HATE managing people so
have no wish to be bothered again. I manage machines and I like it that
way

I suspect he finds it more awkward than I do!

What do you feel about appraisals, then?!! We had to design our own
"mission statement" and other total ********. They'd always ask, what
do you want to be doing in five years' time -- expecting me to say
something positive like "running the company". I think even some of
the managers thought it was a complete waste of their time and mine.

MM

On 21/04/15 20:13, ARW wrote:

No ****?


Wouldn't that result in weight gain?

On 21/04/15 20:26, MM wrote:

What do you feel about appraisals, then?!! We had to design our own
"mission statement" and other total ********. They'd always ask, what
do you want to be doing in five years' time -- expecting me to say
something positive like "running the company". I think even some of
the managers thought it was a complete waste of their time and mine.

MM


What's an "appraisal"? Cannot remember the last time I did one!

(Andrew Gabriel) writes:

In article ,
tony sayer writes:


But what's the point moaning. My generation is lasting much better than our
parents generation. My father died at 56. My mother made it into her seventies
but suffered dementia for her last few years.


Very true, and what we tend to forget..

Hey ho. I still work 5 days a week and enjoy what I do.

I reckon thats a very good thing if you like what you do and have a
reason to get up in the morning.

My dad is in his eighties. He has just given up his office at work that
they let him keep for some years after officially retiring, but he is
still working at home on his complex mathematical modelling calculations
of the Sun's oscillating modes. (He's a research physicist, specialising
in the Sun.)

So a man who loves what he does. Was true of myself for many years,
but Goldsmith and his worldwide takeovers put paid to that.
(Maybe I didn't help by failing to react in whatever was the proper
way, whatever that might be.)


--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
J.R.R. Tolkien:- @ S c o t s h o m e . c o m
All that is gold does not glister / Not all who wander are lost

MM writes:

On 21 Apr 2015 09:13:48 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:

On Tue, 21 Apr 2015 02:28:21 +0100, MM wrote:

Ah! I'm retired. I wouldn't work now if you paid me! After 44 years of
grafting I reckon I've had enough of work. Besides, I have so many
hobbies, including DIY, I could never find the time for working.

I'm looking forward to this.

I'm
really enjoying doing what the heck I like when I like without all the
stress of office politics in an environment where I was treated like a
granddad as the oldest staff member. Heck, I was older than my managers!

I'm older than nearly everyone; the problem is the incompetence of
management. What this means is that other people invent silly rules, and
he (being weak) just agrees. It gets really annoying sometimes.

Two things really ****ed me off: annual appraisals, and meetings.
Especially the latter made all the junior management feel so
self-important and they had meetings all the ruddy time. I never
wanted to become a manager, but preferred to work on my projects
(computer programmer), which was far more interesting than organising
people. I've never had a lot of time for managers, I'm afraid.

Show me any real computer guy who *does* have time for 'the mgmt.'

--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
J.R.R. Tolkien:- @ S c o t s h o m e . c o m
All that is gold does not glister / Not all who wander are lost

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 21/04/15 02:19, MM wrote:

Only this morning as I was driving to Screwfix for shopping I said
over and over, how I wish, I wish, I wish I were 40 years younger!
It's a real bugger growing old.

If I had one wish from the genie, it would be this:

To reset my life to 18 (and go back to 1986) but knowing everything I know
now.

Some mistakes were unavoidable and/or I could not avoid them again because
it would be too much for my basic character and intelligence.



1986 was Helen.


--
Adam

On Tue, 21 Apr 2015 20:41:44 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

On 21/04/15 20:26, MM wrote:

What do you feel about appraisals, then?!! We had to design our own
"mission statement" and other total ********. They'd always ask, what
do you want to be doing in five years' time -- expecting me to say
something positive like "running the company". I think even some of the
managers thought it was a complete waste of their time and mine.

MM


What's an "appraisal"? Cannot remember the last time I did one!

The manager sent round requests for us to fill in all the forms. The
deadline was last November. He's taken on a lot of the 'interviews'
himself and as far as I know hasn't done any. Or perhaps he's just scared
of me. He's only spoken to me once (apart from a nod in the corridor)
since last September.

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On Tue, 21 Apr 2015 20:12:10 GMT, lid
(Windmill) wrote:

MM writes:

On 21 Apr 2015 09:13:48 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:

On Tue, 21 Apr 2015 02:28:21 +0100, MM wrote:

Ah! I'm retired. I wouldn't work now if you paid me! After 44 years of
grafting I reckon I've had enough of work. Besides, I have so many
hobbies, including DIY, I could never find the time for working.

I'm looking forward to this.

I'm
really enjoying doing what the heck I like when I like without all the
stress of office politics in an environment where I was treated like a
granddad as the oldest staff member. Heck, I was older than my managers!

I'm older than nearly everyone; the problem is the incompetence of
management. What this means is that other people invent silly rules, and
he (being weak) just agrees. It gets really annoying sometimes.

Two things really ****ed me off: annual appraisals, and meetings.
Especially the latter made all the junior management feel so
self-important and they had meetings all the ruddy time. I never
wanted to become a manager, but preferred to work on my projects
(computer programmer), which was far more interesting than organising
people. I've never had a lot of time for managers, I'm afraid.

Show me any real computer guy who *does* have time for 'the mgmt.'

Well, they were the ones who became managers. There's always one.

MM

On Tue, 21 Apr 2015 20:41:44 +0100, Tim Watts
wrote:

On 21/04/15 20:26, MM wrote:

What do you feel about appraisals, then?!! We had to design our own
"mission statement" and other total ********. They'd always ask, what
do you want to be doing in five years' time -- expecting me to say
something positive like "running the company". I think even some of
the managers thought it was a complete waste of their time and mine.

MM


What's an "appraisal"? Cannot remember the last time I did one!

It's much too late, but again I can't sleep (having problems with the
old insomnia again) so here's a brief recall: You meet up with your
manager on a one-to-one basis, similar to an initial job interview.
You and he are supposed to take on the role of being best buddies
together during the appraisal. Then there are various forms to fill
out, like the "mission statement" one I mentioned. There are "goals"
to set, "opportunities" for improvement (made me think I should shower
more often), and finally the manager would offer some words of advice
in order to become a better drone. A few days later you'd get a
printed report, i.e. "the appraisal", or even better, "The Appraisal",
with capital letters to show how really, really important it was. You
and he would sign it as a token of mutual love and understanding for
each other and for the fabulous company both of us worked for. Then it
was over for another year.

I believe some managers (the fascist tendency) enjoyed the process
because it gave them the opportunity to speak down to the employee and
tell him how he should pull his socks up.

Appraisals are all about self-aggrandizement -- for the management.

F**k knows what work feels like today, as I have been out of the
rat-race for 14 years. As I can avoid the rush hour now, I never see
workers going to work. They have become an invisible army. I know they
exist, because Cameron keeps telling us they do, but I never see them
any more. The only change I notice is when the schools are off and
Sainsbury's car park is full. (Usually there are plenty of free
spaces.)

Gonna have another stab at sleeping now...

MM

On 22/04/15 02:07, MM wrote:

Well, they were the ones who became managers. There's always one.

Not always true.

In academia, you might find the dept run more or less day to day by some
"administrator" who slides in sideways and has no academic
qualifications at all. Boy does that **** people off.

On 22/04/15 02:24, MM wrote:

Gonna have another stab at sleeping now...

Is the right answer

On 22/04/15 07:27, Tim Watts wrote:
On 22/04/15 02:07, MM wrote:

Well, they were the ones who became managers. There's always one.

Not always true.

In academia, you might find the dept run more or less day to day by some
"administrator" who slides in sideways and has no academic
qualifications at all. Boy does that **** people off.

Well, better than than leaving administration to academics. And yes,
academics are very status concious, really messes them up when the admin
have better academic qualifications then them.

On Wed, 22 Apr 2015 07:27:49 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

On 22/04/15 02:07, MM wrote:

Well, they were the ones who became managers. There's always one.

Not always true.

In academia, you might find the dept run more or less day to day by some
"administrator" who slides in sideways and has no academic
qualifications at all. Boy does that **** people off.

That happens particularly when the head of department is an academic who
*may* be a good researcher but is hopeless at management.

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On 22/04/15 07:44, DJC wrote:
On 22/04/15 07:27, Tim Watts wrote:
On 22/04/15 02:07, MM wrote:

Well, they were the ones who became managers. There's always one.

Not always true.

In academia, you might find the dept run more or less day to day by some
"administrator" who slides in sideways and has no academic
qualifications at all. Boy does that **** people off.

Well, better than than leaving administration to academics.

It's more than admin.

Nothing puts a professor's nose out of joint than having an admin person
approve his annual leave request.

More seriously, the admin person does not understand the business of the
department and thus frequently comes up with stupid pronouncements.

And yes,
academics are very status concious, really messes them up when the admin
have better academic qualifications then them.

On 22/04/15 07:58, Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 22 Apr 2015 07:27:49 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

On 22/04/15 02:07, MM wrote:

Well, they were the ones who became managers. There's always one.

Not always true.

In academia, you might find the dept run more or less day to day by some
"administrator" who slides in sideways and has no academic
qualifications at all. Boy does that **** people off.

That happens particularly when the head of department is an academic who
*may* be a good researcher but is hopeless at management.


I am lucky - my current place (at least my dept) does not have this
problem. For all our faults, it still feels like a university.

MM wrote:

It's much too late, but again I can't sleep (having problems with the
old insomnia again) so here's a brief recall: You meet up with your
manager on a one-to-one basis, similar to an initial job interview.
You and he are supposed to take on the role of being best buddies
together during the appraisal. Then there are various forms to fill
out, like the "mission statement" one I mentioned. There are "goals"
to set, "opportunities" for improvement (made me think I should shower
more often), and finally the manager would offer some words of advice
in order to become a better drone. A few days later you'd get a
printed report, i.e. "the appraisal", or even better, "The Appraisal",
with capital letters to show how really, really important it was. You
and he would sign it as a token of mutual love and understanding for
each other and for the fabulous company both of us worked for. Then it
was over for another year.

I believe some managers (the fascist tendency) enjoyed the process
because it gave them the opportunity to speak down to the employee and
tell him how he should pull his socks up.

That reminds me of assessments indicating an area where scope for
improvement was identified, when the concept that I might not
actually have the slightest desire to make any moves in that
direction was met with incomprehension.

My response during my annual review at age 59 to "Where do you
see yourself in 12 months' time?" was "Retired!"

Shortly afterwards the opportunity arose to apply for voluntary
redundancy. I thought that they would turn it down, as it would
cost them almost as much as keeping me, but my luck was in.

One of the best bits about my last few days at work was being
able to say to certain parties who had, whilst pressing me to
make progress on certain matters, singularly failed to engage in
enabling discussions in any meaningful way "If you really want to
talk about this, you've got X days left to do it."

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

On Wednesday, April 22, 2015 at 8:47:37 AM UTC+1, Chris J Dixon wrote:
MM wrote:

It's much too late, but again I can't sleep (having problems with the
old insomnia again) so here's a brief recall: You meet up with your
manager on a one-to-one basis, similar to an initial job interview.
You and he are supposed to take on the role of being best buddies
together during the appraisal. Then there are various forms to fill
out, like the "mission statement" one I mentioned. There are "goals"
to set, "opportunities" for improvement (made me think I should shower
more often), and finally the manager would offer some words of advice
in order to become a better drone. A few days later you'd get a
printed report, i.e. "the appraisal", or even better, "The Appraisal",
with capital letters to show how really, really important it was. You
and he would sign it as a token of mutual love and understanding for
each other and for the fabulous company both of us worked for. Then it
was over for another year.

I believe some managers (the fascist tendency) enjoyed the process
because it gave them the opportunity to speak down to the employee and
tell him how he should pull his socks up.

That reminds me of assessments indicating an area where scope for
improvement was identified, when the concept that I might not
actually have the slightest desire to make any moves in that
direction was met with incomprehension.

My response during my annual review at age 59 to "Where do you
see yourself in 12 months' time?" was "Retired!"

Shortly afterwards the opportunity arose to apply for voluntary
redundancy. I thought that they would turn it down, as it would
cost them almost as much as keeping me, but my luck was in.

One of the best bits about my last few days at work was being
able to say to certain parties who had, whilst pressing me to
make progress on certain matters, singularly failed to engage in
enabling discussions in any meaningful way "If you really want to
talk about this, you've got X days left to do it."

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

Best crack I got when on my last day in a particular job dealing with inevitably obnoxious members of the public was in taken one aside and telling him to f**k off.
'Ill tell your manager'
"Tell whoever the f**k you like. I'm off"

In article ,
Tim Watts writes:
On 22/04/15 02:24, MM wrote:

Gonna have another stab at sleeping now...

Is the right answer

Having read this sub-thread, I feel very lucky to have had a number of
very good managers in my career (not all, but many of them), and I believe
I have been a good manager myself, learning from the better ones, and also
from the bad ones (what not to do;-).

A good manager is a leader whose job is to get the best from the team,
understanding what drives each team member, what hinders them, and as
far as is possible/reasonable, pushing the former and removing the latter.
As a manager, you should be on sufficently familiar terms that your staff
can share their issues with you, and you should know what their longer
term aims are, and providing it matches the company's direction, you can
help them move towards those, even if it means losing someone good from
your team to another role in the company (which is always better than
losing them to a competitor).

If you get an unexpected resignation, then you weren't working well enough
with that staff member. Equally, if you get to an appraisal, there shouldn't
be any surprises on either side - everything mentioned should have been
covered in regular conversations and/or regular 1-2-1s in the period since
the last appraisal. It's also where the staff member gets a commitment
from the company on things like training needed over the following year.

Your manager rarely has complete control of compensation (pay, bonuses,
etc), and the appraisal is used to justify compensation changes higher up
the management and to HR, where they are not going to know the staff member
as well, if at all. (It's also necessary to protect companies from
discrimination cases which staff might bring if they think they have been
unfairly treated, if this was not the case.)

Companies which take management leadership seriously will usually have some
type of 360 degree appraisal system, where the staff also appraise their
manager via some type of anonymous or protected feedback (and sometimes
also their manager's manager). A poor manager/leader can seriously reduce
the productivity of whole teams, and that is an enormous unnecessary cost
for a company - indeed it is often the cause for a company to fail.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In ,
Tim writes:
On 22/04/15 02:24, MM wrote:

Gonna have another stab at sleeping now...

Is the right answer

Having read this sub-thread, I feel very lucky to have had a number of
very good managers in my career (not all, but many of them), and I believe
I have been a good manager myself, learning from the better ones, and also
from the bad ones (what not to do;-).

A good manager is a leader whose job is to get the best from the team,
understanding what drives each team member, what hinders them, and as
far as is possible/reasonable, pushing the former and removing the latter.
As a manager, you should be on sufficently familiar terms that your staff
can share their issues with you, and you should know what their longer
term aims are, and providing it matches the company's direction, you can
help them move towards those, even if it means losing someone good from
your team to another role in the company (which is always better than
losing them to a competitor).

If you get an unexpected resignation, then you weren't working well enough
with that staff member. Equally, if you get to an appraisal, there shouldn't
be any surprises on either side - everything mentioned should have been
covered in regular conversations and/or regular 1-2-1s in the period since
the last appraisal. It's also where the staff member gets a commitment
from the company on things like training needed over the following year.

Your manager rarely has complete control of compensation (pay, bonuses,
etc), and the appraisal is used to justify compensation changes higher up
the management and to HR, where they are not going to know the staff member
as well, if at all. (It's also necessary to protect companies from
discrimination cases which staff might bring if they think they have been
unfairly treated, if this was not the case.)

Companies which take management leadership seriously will usually have some
type of 360 degree appraisal system, where the staff also appraise their
manager via some type of anonymous or protected feedback (and sometimes
also their manager's manager). A poor manager/leader can seriously reduce
the productivity of whole teams, and that is an enormous unnecessary cost
for a company - indeed it is often the cause for a company to fail.


Someone once asked me how I determined if a salesman was any good. I
replied, put him on the road for a month and you will know!

IME appraisals are not worth the hot air they are written on. They're
about as reliable as 5 year business plans.

On 21/04/15 10:15, Bob Eager wrote:

MyFitnessPal again.

I see my mistake (not having entered anything on MFP for a while).

I appraised yesterday and today's meals.

I was 800 cals over 1600 yesterday - that would be the amount I drunk in
alcohol.


Yesterday and today - 2nd mistake. I thought buying a M&S salad and
lobbing some pickled herrings on top would be good. It's not. The fish
is 500 and sadly they do not do smaller portions (and no i do not trust
the decrepit old fridge at work).

Today - a ramen snack cost me 380 cals.

On the plus side a fruit salad pudding for lunch is great at 75.

On Wed, 22 Apr 2015 11:46:41 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

On 21/04/15 10:15, Bob Eager wrote:

MyFitnessPal again.

I see my mistake (not having entered anything on MFP for a while).

I appraised yesterday and today's meals.

I was 800 cals over 1600 yesterday - that would be the amount I drunk in
alcohol.


Yesterday and today - 2nd mistake. I thought buying a M&S salad and
lobbing some pickled herrings on top would be good. It's not. The fish
is 500 and sadly they do not do smaller portions (and no i do not trust
the decrepit old fridge at work).

Today - a ramen snack cost me 380 cals.

On the plus side a fruit salad pudding for lunch is great at 75.

I am constantly surprised at some things. I had a nice creme caramel from
Sainsburys and it was only 110. Low fat sandwiches aren't all bad. And
the Be Good To Yourself range from Sainsburys is pretty nice.

Today (for lunch) I am having four Ryvita, butter, Ardennes pate,
cucumber and spring onion, and a mug of coffee. 391 calories.




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