On 29/04/15 09:31, Huge wrote:
On 2015-04-29, Simon Brown wrote:


"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Wed, 29 Apr 2015 02:34:56 +0100, MM wrote:

But in rural Britain, i.e. practically the whole of Lincolnshire for
example, there isn't. People pay either with a card (inserted, not
swiped) or cash.

Almost ceratainly because a weekly shop will come to more than the
contactless limit of £20/transaction, even if the EPOS system can
handle contactless payment.

That is a completely stupid limit.

Indeed. It should be £5.



Indeed. I would use contactless only on a card that I can treat like a
wallet and put a known small mount in it.

On 23/04/2015 11:00, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Chris J Dixon writes:


However, the other end of the scale, where promotion is based
only on engineering ability, is not without snags. There was a
time when my chief engineer and engineering manager, whilst both
excellent engineers, had no management skills. This was such a
shame, as their real talents were wasted, and their ineptitude
diminished the work of those in their charge.

Yes, this is common - people keep getting promoted until they reach
a level at which they are not compitent, and then stay there. It's
not helped by most companies having a structure where you can only
be promoted a little before becoming a manager. I was lucky to work
at Sun Microsystems, where there were equivalent management and
engineering roles at every level up the hierarchy, which is how you
retain the world's best engineers without forcing them to do
something else they are often no good at, or losing them.

At one point in my career, we had a management team from Westinghouse
parachuted in to run a "technical support" group made up of a couple of
hundred high quality UK engineers and scientists.

We waited for this with considerable skepticism. They came from all
sorts of backgrounds, only one of them was Ivy League, but they were
outstandingly good managers. If you went to one with a problem, they
found a way to fix it. Like Sun, they had parallel hierarchies for
engineers and managers. I have no problem being managed by someone half
my age (and probably on a lower basic salary) provided they do it well!

(This was in the days when BNFL owned Westinghouse Nuclear, before they
sold it off).

(One of them had been a captain of a nuclear sub. He had a nice story
about being asked by a Russian if he had ever visited Vladivostok and he
was able to say no, but that he had sat off-shore spying on it for a while).

On 29 Apr 2015 08:31:11 GMT, Huge wrote:

Almost ceratainly because a weekly shop will come to more than
the
contactless limit of £20/transaction, even if the EPOS system
can
handle contactless payment.

That is a completely stupid limit.

Indeed. It should be £5.

Fiver is a bit low IMHO. Can you escape from a Costa/Starbucks or WHY
with a sandwhich and coffee for less than a fiver? The "all you can
eat" buffet restraunts in Newcastles China Town are around £7 inc a
drink.

I agree £20 is too high a tenner would be better.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On 29 Apr 2015 08:31:11 GMT, Huge wrote:

Almost ceratainly because a weekly shop will come to more than
the
contactless limit of £20/transaction, even if the EPOS system
can
handle contactless payment.

That is a completely stupid limit.

Indeed. It should be £5.

Fiver is a bit low IMHO. Can you escape from a Costa/Starbucks or WHY
with a sandwhich and coffee for less than a fiver? The "all you can
eat" buffet restraunts in Newcastles China Town are around £7 inc a
drink.

I agree £20 is too high a tenner would be better.

The only reason for a limit is the situation where the card
gets stolen or lost and it takes some time to notice that
it has been stolen or lost and to get the card blocked.

There isn't a significant difference between
£10 and say £50 in that regard.

In article ,
wrote:
On Tuesday, 28 April 2015 17:28:04 UTC+1, Dave Liquorice wrote:
Unless it's a very small amount of groceries it'll be over the
£20/transaction limit on contactless payment anyway.

Maybe it's because I'm single, or cheap, but £20 would be by considered
large for my weekly grocery bill.

Do you live on takeaways or something?

--
*Never test the depth of the water with both feet.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article o.uk,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
Pretty sure UHT was about when real sterilised milk was. Sterilised
milk is nothing like UHT or milk come to that, other than being a
white(ish) liquid.

What I mean by sterilised dates from WW2 when obviously fresh milk could
be in short supply. It actually tastes worse in coffee than creamer. If
that is possible.

--
*Why are a wise man and a wise guy opposites? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2015-04-29, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On 29 Apr 2015 08:31:11 GMT, Huge wrote:

Almost ceratainly because a weekly shop will come to more than
the
contactless limit of £20/transaction, even if the EPOS system
can
handle contactless payment.

That is a completely stupid limit.

Indeed. It should be £5.

Fiver is a bit low IMHO. Can you escape from a Costa/Starbucks or WHY
with a sandwhich and coffee for less than a fiver? The "all you can
eat" buffet restraunts in Newcastles China Town are around £7 inc a
drink.

I agree £20 is too high a tenner would be better.

The limit should be 1/4 of what you're prepared to have stolen if you
lose the card - the cards can be used 4 times without on-line
verification,
so if you lose it and don't report it immediately, the finder can steal 4
x
the limit.

No, because most will notice the card has been lost or stolen.

I rarely have £50 in cash in my pocket,

Irrelevant to what others have.

so a limit around a tenner is probably right.

Nothing like it in fact.

Problem is, there is market pressure to increase it, from people
who aren't aware of the implications of an increased limit.

From people who understand that few cards
get lost or stolen without that being noticed.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
wrote:
On Tuesday, 28 April 2015 17:28:04 UTC+1, Dave Liquorice wrote:
Unless it's a very small amount of groceries it'll be over the
£20/transaction limit on contactless payment anyway.

Maybe it's because I'm single, or cheap, but £20 would be by considered
large for my weekly grocery bill.

Do you live on takeaways or something?

I don't and don't often exceed that value.

On 29/04/2015 03:41, Rod Speed wrote:

"MM" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 29 Apr 2015 01:10:38 +0100, Fredxxx wrote:

On 28/04/2015 09:29, Rod Speed wrote:


"MM" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 07:35:02 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"Fredxxx" wrote in message
...
On 26/04/2015 08:03, Rod Speed wrote:


"MM" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 25 Apr 2015 13:21:43 +0100, Fredxxx
wrote:

On 25/04/2015 10:40, Rod Speed wrote:


"MM" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 25 Apr 2015 14:18:39 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

I personally use self checkouts whenever I can.

The Aldis I frequent don't have them.

More fool Aldi.

No, more fool the other chains.

No need, as the checkouts are faster
anyway than any self-checkout.

You don't frequent Aldis very much do you. The checkout operators
are
like lightening. I'm happy to stand in a line there knowing
that the
goods on the belt will be placed back in the trolley in a near
flash.

Last time at Morrisons, I counted 13 people in my queue and it
took 10
minutes just to get to the till. The self-service side was
queued well
into an isle.

Exactly.

Only because they don't have enough self checkouts, stupid.

You're missing the point.

Nope.

An Aldi checkout operator can outperform by a factor of 2 or 3
those at
other grocers.

I don't believe that. Yes, they are faster but not that much faster.

Oh yes they are!

Oh no they aren't.

They see it as a kind of battle which they always win.

Sure, but that only means that they are faster, NOT 2 OR 3 TIMES
FASTER.

The difference is simple, on the one hand you have an operator working
as fast as they can, and where the bar codes actually seem to work.

On the other, the operator waits for the customer they've just served to
leave, say hello to the new one, then ask if they need packing, and then
wait for the customer to open a bag which doesn't and to wait until the
customer has finished filling their bags. If there is any issue a
request to a supervisor.

I can go on. They really just don't compare. 2 - 3 times faster will be
about right.

Thank you. I rest my case, m'lud.

You never had a case, y'dud.

It helps to view the evidence rather than taking a blinkered view of a
case. It makes denial look less obvious.

"Fredxxx" wrote in message
...
On 29/04/2015 03:41, Rod Speed wrote:

"MM" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 29 Apr 2015 01:10:38 +0100, Fredxxx wrote:

On 28/04/2015 09:29, Rod Speed wrote:


"MM" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 07:35:02 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"Fredxxx" wrote in message
...
On 26/04/2015 08:03, Rod Speed wrote:


"MM" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 25 Apr 2015 13:21:43 +0100, Fredxxx
wrote:

On 25/04/2015 10:40, Rod Speed wrote:


"MM" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 25 Apr 2015 14:18:39 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

I personally use self checkouts whenever I can.

The Aldis I frequent don't have them.

More fool Aldi.

No, more fool the other chains.

No need, as the checkouts are faster
anyway than any self-checkout.

You don't frequent Aldis very much do you. The checkout
operators
are
like lightening. I'm happy to stand in a line there knowing
that the
goods on the belt will be placed back in the trolley in a near
flash.

Last time at Morrisons, I counted 13 people in my queue and it
took 10
minutes just to get to the till. The self-service side was
queued well
into an isle.

Exactly.

Only because they don't have enough self checkouts, stupid.

You're missing the point.

Nope.

An Aldi checkout operator can outperform by a factor of 2 or 3
those at
other grocers.

I don't believe that. Yes, they are faster but not that much faster.

Oh yes they are!

Oh no they aren't.

They see it as a kind of battle which they always win.

Sure, but that only means that they are faster, NOT 2 OR 3 TIMES
FASTER.

The difference is simple, on the one hand you have an operator working
as fast as they can, and where the bar codes actually seem to work.

On the other, the operator waits for the customer they've just served
to
leave, say hello to the new one, then ask if they need packing, and
then
wait for the customer to open a bag which doesn't and to wait until the
customer has finished filling their bags. If there is any issue a
request to a supervisor.

I can go on. They really just don't compare. 2 - 3 times faster will be
about right.

Thank you. I rest my case, m'lud.

You never had a case, y'dud.

It helps to view the evidence

Been there, done that, you are wrong.

In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
wrote:
On Tuesday, 28 April 2015 17:28:04 UTC+1, Dave Liquorice wrote:
Unless it's a very small amount of groceries it'll be over the
£20/transaction limit on contactless payment anyway.

Maybe it's because I'm single, or cheap, but £20 would be by considered
large for my weekly grocery bill.

Do you live on takeaways or something?

I don't and don't often exceed that value.

Doesn't much surprise me. You obviously don't care what you eat.

--
*ATHEISM IS A NON-PROPHET ORGANIZATION.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 29 Apr 2015 20:13:50 +1000, Simon Brown wrote:

Fiver is a bit low IMHO. Can you escape from a Costa/Starbucks or
WHY
with a sandwhich and coffee for less than a fiver? The "all you
can
eat" buffet restraunts in Newcastles China Town are around £7 inc
a
drink.

I agree £20 is too high a tenner would be better.

The only reason for a limit is the situation where the card
gets stolen or lost and it takes some time to notice that
it has been stolen or lost and to get the card blocked.

There isn't a significant difference between
£10 and say £50 in that regard.

I thought there was a limit on the number of contactless transactions
per day as well but the 'web doesn't suppport that idea at all.

Also looks like the transaction limit will be going up in September
to £30. The hook being used being the average supermarket bill being
£25, cor I wish, ours is £50 ish/week, plus about another £15.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Wed, 29 Apr 2015 20:33:09 +1000, Simon Brown wrote:

The limit should be 1/4 of what you're prepared to have stolen if
you
lose the card - the cards can be used 4 times without on-line
verification, so if you lose it and don't report it immediately,
the
finder can steal 4 x the limit.

Ah maybe that's what I half remember on a "daily limit", how ever the
only reference to that sort of thing is "from time to time" or
"occasionally". I guess they don't want the tea leaves to know that
the nth transaction will be checked so they stop at n-1.

No, because most will notice the card has been lost or stolen.

Eventually it doesn't take lomg to visit four shops and buy £20 of
goods in each.

I rarely have £50 in cash in my pocket,

Irrelevant to what others have.

so a limit around a tenner is probably right.

Nothing like it in fact.

According to you. I normally have only a tenner or fiver in my wallet
and perhaps another fiver in coins. Cash is a PITA you have to keep
going to get it and no sooner than you have you've spent it and have
to get some more. Always assuming there is any in your bank account
without shuffling it from somewhere else first.

We ought to be able to set the transaction limit ourselves and how
many contactless transactions can take place in a day. For me I'd set
it to £10 and 2, after all it's only a convience to avoid entering
the PIN. If I want to use the card more than twice I can simply enter
the PIN.

Problem is, there is market pressure to increase it, from people
who aren't aware of the implications of an increased limit.

From people who understand that few cards get lost or stolen without
that being noticed.

Eventually. I "lost track" of my wallet the other week. Must have
been a good six hours before I notice it wasn't where it should have
been. And only then because I was going out again, if hadn't gone out
it would have been next day, another 12+ hours on top of the 6, at
the earliest.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 29/04/2015 11:32, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article o.uk,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
Pretty sure UHT was about when real sterilised milk was. Sterilised
milk is nothing like UHT or milk come to that, other than being a
white(ish) liquid.

What I mean by sterilised dates from WW2 when obviously fresh milk could
be in short supply. It actually tastes worse in coffee than creamer. If
that is possible.


I drink skimmed milk but only UHT, it tastes fine but the fresh stuff is
horrible.

On Wednesday, 29 April 2015 10:35:13 UTC+1, Huge wrote:
On 2015-04-29, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On 29 Apr 2015 08:31:11 GMT, Huge wrote:

Almost ceratainly because a weekly shop will come to more than
the
contactless limit of £20/transaction, even if the EPOS system
can
handle contactless payment.

That is a completely stupid limit.

Indeed. It should be £5.

Fiver is a bit low IMHO. Can you escape from a Costa/Starbucks or WHY
with a sandwhich and coffee for less than a fiver? The "all you can
eat" buffet restraunts in Newcastles China Town are around £7 inc a
drink.

I agree £20 is too high a tenner would be better.

The limit should be 1/4 of what you're prepared to have stolen if you
lose the card - the cards can be used 4 times without on-line verification,
so if you lose it and don't report it immediately, the finder can steal
4 x the limit. I rarely have £50 in cash in my pocket, so a limit around
a tenner is probably right.

Problem is, there is market pressure to increase it, from people who aren't
aware of the implications of an increased limit.

I'd prefer to set my own limit, whats wrong with that ?

I use my card about twice a week and most days I don;t take it out anyway.

In message o.uk, Dave
Liquorice writes
On Wed, 29 Apr 2015 20:13:50 +1000, Simon Brown wrote:

Fiver is a bit low IMHO. Can you escape from a Costa/Starbucks or
WHY
with a sandwhich and coffee for less than a fiver? The "all you
can
eat" buffet restraunts in Newcastles China Town are around £7 inc
a
drink.

I agree £20 is too high a tenner would be better.

The only reason for a limit is the situation where the card
gets stolen or lost and it takes some time to notice that
it has been stolen or lost and to get the card blocked.

There isn't a significant difference between
£10 and say £50 in that regard.

I thought there was a limit on the number of contactless transactions
per day as well but the 'web doesn't suppport that idea at all.

Also looks like the transaction limit will be going up in September
to £30. The hook being used being the average supermarket bill being
£25, cor I wish, ours is £50 ish/week, plus about another £15.


The average supermarket transaction being £25 doesn't mean that is
someone's average weekly spend.

The bulk of our stuff is ordered online, so when I go to the supermarket
it's normally just for a topup of a few things
--
Chris French

On Wednesday, 29 April 2015 11:32:48 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Maybe it's because I'm single, or cheap, but £20 would be by considered
large for my weekly grocery bill.
Do you live on takeaways or something?

Quite a lot of 'value' things in tins and packets. Certainly not a takeaway very often. A haggis supper is £4.20 now (and would be included in my weekly grocery, i.e. food, bill).

Owain

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
wrote:
On Tuesday, 28 April 2015 17:28:04 UTC+1, Dave Liquorice wrote:
Unless it's a very small amount of groceries it'll be over the
£20/transaction limit on contactless payment anyway.

Maybe it's because I'm single, or cheap, but £20 would be by
considered
large for my weekly grocery bill.

Do you live on takeaways or something?

I don't and don't often exceed that value.

Doesn't much surprise me. You obviously don't care what you eat.

Even more stupid than you usually manage.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Wed, 29 Apr 2015 20:13:50 +1000, Simon Brown wrote:

Fiver is a bit low IMHO. Can you escape from a Costa/Starbucks or
WHY
with a sandwhich and coffee for less than a fiver? The "all you
can
eat" buffet restraunts in Newcastles China Town are around £7 inc
a
drink.

I agree £20 is too high a tenner would be better.

The only reason for a limit is the situation where the card
gets stolen or lost and it takes some time to notice that
it has been stolen or lost and to get the card blocked.

There isn't a significant difference between
£10 and say £50 in that regard.

I thought there was a limit on the number of contactless transactions
per day as well but the 'web doesn't suppport that idea at all.

Also looks like the transaction limit will be going up in September to
£30. The hook being used being the average supermarket bill being £25,

Makes no sense at all to only cover the average bill.

cor I wish, ours is £50 ish/week, plus about another £15.