On 12/02/15 17:24, Adrian wrote:
On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 16:57:44 +0000, Capitol wrote:

So 50% of legislation coming from an unelected source

s'funny. I seem to recall voting for the European Elections not that long
ago.


You dp0nt actually know anything about the EU do you?

What we elected was the 'house of lords' MEPS. They can block
legislation but they *have no sayat all* in proposing it.

not having your best interests at heart is a good thing?

Well, p'raps if a sizable proportion of UK MEPs actually rocked up and
pulled their weight, instead of taking the ****, skiving all the time,
and voting against everything regardless of merit?

In his time in the EU, Nick Clegg had a worse attendance record and
voting record than Nigel Farage.



--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 17:29:26 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

but the whole point of leaving the EU is to repair tyhe already ruined
economy.

Which it won't. Quite the opposite.

I visited Czechoslovakia a year after the wall came down. Britain today
resembles it.

You clearly live in a very different Britain to the one I live in.

UKIP should not have a policy on everything. In fact it should have
almost no policy on anything. That's not a weakness, that's a
strength.

You can't really believe that can you?

Absolutely6. No policy ion fo9xshubtning, gay marriage, plain wrappings
on cigarettes sod all that.

So what if I actually want my MP or MEP to represent me on those issues?
I should vote for somebody from a non-monomaniacal party? OK, great.

We are flat broke

No, we aren't. We're a G8 economy, and one of the more successful ones.

we are being invaded by LEGAL immigrants

No, we aren't. And, even if we were, there are more UK nationals living
elsewhere in the EU than there are EU nationals living here. If the UK
gets rid of "them", surely it is only fair for the EU to get rid of "us",
too?

Oh, and if you're conflating non-EU migration, then don't forget that's
something that is ENTIRELY in UK hands.

and we have no power to stop anything or change anything because the EU
sets the rules.

Yes, we do, and no, they don't. Even if "they" do, "we" are a substantial
part of "them", always assuming some of "our" elected representatives
actually bothered to do the job they get paid for.

Reality (as seen from outside the pages of the Daily Mail) really isn't
your strong point, is it?

On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 17:34:52 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

So 50% of legislation coming from an unelected source

s'funny. I seem to recall voting for the European Elections not that
long ago.

You dp0nt actually know anything about the EU do you?

One of us has a far better idea of the reality than the other.

What we elected was the 'house of lords' MEPS. They can block
legislation but they *have no sayat all* in proposing it.

So how much Westminster legislation comes from private member's bills?

On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 17:34:52 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

not having your best interests at heart is a good thing?

Well, p'raps if a sizable proportion of UK MEPs actually rocked up and
pulled their weight, instead of taking the ****, skiving all the time,
and voting against everything regardless of merit?

In his time in the EU, Nick Clegg had a worse attendance record and
voting record than Nigel Farage.

Oh, and...
http://blogs.channel4.com/michael-cr...oting-records-
ukip-lib-dems-compare/3867

On 12/02/2015 16:55, Tim Streater wrote:


That's because socialists don't believe in free speech. There was a
longish article in the Times the other day about this lefty tendency:

1) I am a nice person who believes in being nice to furry animals etc

2) You oppose me

3) Therefore you believe in being cruel to nice furry animals

4) Therefore you are a nasty person who has no right to speak and it is
therefore my duty to bash you over the head to prevent you speaking

It's really very simple and I wonder why you are so surprised.


********, really. Arseholes don't believe in free speech. There are
plenty of right wing arseholes around. So ********. QED.

Tim w

On 12/02/15 17:39, Adrian wrote:
On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 17:34:52 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

So 50% of legislation coming from an unelected source

s'funny. I seem to recall voting for the European Elections not that
long ago.

You dp0nt actually know anything about the EU do you?

One of us has a far better idea of the reality than the other.

What we elected was the 'house of lords' MEPS. They can block
legislation but they *have no sayat all* in proposing it.

So how much Westminster legislation comes from private member's bills?

That is not the point. It is voted on by the house of commons to
actuy7ally even GET to the upper house. It can be thrown out. And
largely it is intyrdi8cude because it fulfils eityer4 a real need, or a
political need. But at leasts we and the MSM have a chance to have our say.

Most Brussels legislation isn't even voted on by anybody. Its another
'regulation' that slides in under the radar.


--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

On 12/02/15 17:34, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Capitol wrote:
Despite UKIP's wild claims, the amount of UK legislation originating in
the EU is anything from 15% to 50%, depending upon how you define your
criteria. In practice, a high proportion of that legislation would have
been passed into UK law in similar form even if it had not been EU
legislation and some, such as regulations about tobacco and olive
growing, have little or no effect in the UK.


So 50% of legislation coming from an unelected source not having your
best interests at heart is a good thing?

Then who's interests do they have at heart?

the usual suspects, Big business and the political class.

IN the old SovBloc government owned big business. In the EU big business
owns the government.

You will buy what you are permitted to buy. You will pay whatever taxes
are demanded of you. You will not have the power to exercise chequebook
democracy, because all services that you need (as defined by the EU)
will be provided for you. Any savings you have will be taken from you
because you are obviously a rich toff. Anything that is not provided
you don't need. Because the EU is perfect and you are a ****.


--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I have been around since 1950. I have never seen people ion general more
depressed and miserable than the last 5 years.

Obviously. A Tory government run riot cutting the living standards of all
but the richest. That has been their vision since Thatcher.

--
*If a parsley farmer is sued, can they garnish his wages?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 12/02/15 17:50, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I have been around since 1950. I have never seen people ion general more
depressed and miserable than the last 5 years.

Obviously. A Tory government run riot cutting the living standards of all
but the richest. That has been their vision since Thatcher.

you really are a card. 15 years of Blair and 40 years of the EU has
destroyed peoples will to live.

It was worst under Blair.


--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

On 12/02/2015 17:14, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 12/02/2015 16:31, Bod wrote:
On 12/02/2015 15:58, Tim Watts wrote:
On 12/02/15 14:46, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 12/02/2015 10:53, Tim Watts wrote:

Now - tell me again why UKIP (or any other fringe party) are somehow
worse that all this?...

They want to take us out of the EU for a start.

They probably should - we are getting hamstrung in way too many central
dictacts.

I thought we joined the EU for the common market, not the dictatorship
that the EU has developed into.
THAT's what a *lot* of people are miffed about.
The EU has been a dripping tap, slowly but surely getting more and more
powers over us.

Much of that power comes from the Single Europe Act, which was very
strongly promoted by the British Government, so we were quite
instrumental in the EU becoming what it is today.

Yes, but the vast majority of the EU laws that have been added, have
been decided by our politicians. Did we get a vote on the landslide of
EU laws? It feels like the vast majority of the laws have been imposed
on us and we HAVE to accept them because Brussels says so and the EU
knows best (apparently).
In effect, we pay billions each year to overpaid ******* who tell us
what's best for us.

On 12/02/2015 4:55 pm, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ],
Another John wrote:

In article ,
"harryagain" wrote:

Something on the telly to watch.

http://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/c...kip_channel_4_
d
ocudrama_ukip_the/

The smear campaign continues.

The other day Farage was prevented from coming outside the UKIP office
in Rotherham by a "furious crowd"

That's because socialists don't believe in free speech. There was a
longish article in the Times the other day about this lefty tendency:

1) I am a nice person who believes in being nice to furry animals etc

2) You oppose me

3) Therefore you believe in being cruel to nice furry animals

4) Therefore you are a nasty person who has no right to speak and it is
therefore my duty to bash you over the head to prevent you speaking

It's really very simple and I wonder why you are so surprised.


That's about it - the real fascists are on the Left.

--
Bob
Tetbury, Gloucestershire, England

Work is the curse of the drinking classes. - Oscar Wilde

On 12/02/15 18:03, Bod wrote:
Yes, but the vast majority of the EU laws that have been added, have
been decided by our politicians.

Absolute total RUBBISH.


--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 12/02/15 09:14, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 12/02/2015 04:12, harryagain wrote:
Something on the telly to watch.
http://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/c...rama_ukip_the/


The smear campaign continues.

Channel 4 did offer Nigel Farage the chance to reply in an interview
with Jon Snow to be shown after the programme. He has declined the offer.


NOT addressed to you Colin - but a general muttering...



Labour f*ck up the economy *every time*[1] they get in.

The tories f*ck everyone over including the NHS every time.

The Libs had their chance but sold their bumhole to the highest bidder
then spent the next years lying over a barrel.

The Greens f*ck everything up without even being in power.

Now - tell me again why UKIP (or any other fringe party) are somehow worse
that all this?

Because they would produce a much more spectacular shambles if the
voters were ever actually stupid enough to let them run the country.

[1] This time was special - they might have had the choice not to get
involved in the vanity wars and save a fortune, but they might still have
been caught out by the bank crisis.

No might about it, they would certainly have been.

A couple of countries were not, particularly
Canada and Australia, but that was for reasons
that don’t apply to places like Britain.

On 12/02/2015 17:43, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/02/15 17:39, Adrian wrote:
On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 17:34:52 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

So 50% of legislation coming from an unelected source

s'funny. I seem to recall voting for the European Elections not that
long ago.

You dp0nt actually know anything about the EU do you?

One of us has a far better idea of the reality than the other.

What we elected was the 'house of lords' MEPS. They can block
legislation but they *have no sayat all* in proposing it.

So how much Westminster legislation comes from private member's bills?

That is not the point. It is voted on by the house of commons to
actuy7ally even GET to the upper house. It can be thrown out. And
largely it is intyrdi8cude because it fulfils eityer4 a real need, or a
political need. But at leasts we and the MSM have a chance to have our say.

Most Brussels legislation isn't even voted on by anybody. Its another
'regulation' that slides in under the radar.


YUp, one day we are buying our fruit and the next day we can't buy the
wrong shape of bananas.

On 12/02/15 18:21, john james wrote:
Now - tell me again why UKIP (or any other fringe party) are somehow
worse that all this?

Because they would produce a much more spectacular shambles if the
voters were ever actually stupid enough to let them run the country

And you know this how?


--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

On 12/02/2015 17:48, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/02/15 17:34, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Capitol wrote:
Despite UKIP's wild claims, the amount of UK legislation originating in
the EU is anything from 15% to 50%, depending upon how you define your
criteria. In practice, a high proportion of that legislation would have
been passed into UK law in similar form even if it had not been EU
legislation and some, such as regulations about tobacco and olive
growing, have little or no effect in the UK.


So 50% of legislation coming from an unelected source not having
your
best interests at heart is a good thing?

Then who's interests do they have at heart?

the usual suspects, Big business and the political class.

IN the old SovBloc government owned big business. In the EU big business
owns the government.

You will buy what you are permitted to buy. You will pay whatever taxes
are demanded of you. You will not have the power to exercise chequebook
democracy, because all services that you need (as defined by the EU)
will be provided for you. Any savings you have will be taken from you
because you are obviously a rich toff. Anything that is not provided
you don't need. Because the EU is perfect and you are a ****.


LOL.

On 12/02/2015 18:10, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/02/15 18:03, Bod wrote:
Yes, but the vast majority of the EU laws that have been added, have
been decided by our politicians.

Absolute total RUBBISH.


To clarify.......our politicians decided to allow the EU laws through, yes.

On 12/02/15 17:53, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/02/15 17:50, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I have been around since 1950. I have never seen people ion general more
depressed and miserable than the last 5 years.

Obviously. A Tory government run riot cutting the living standards of all
but the richest. That has been their vision since Thatcher.

you really are a card. 15 years of Blair and 40 years of the EU has
destroyed peoples will to live.

It was worst under Blair.

I'd say so.

Compare the amount of regulation on daily living now to the 1970s or
earlier. It's destroying my will to live.

We had a story in the local paper just before Xmas where a law firm was
advising employers (and practising themselves) not to have alcohol
fuelled Xmas parties as "employers were liable for their employees if
anyone did anything bad". For christs sake. When I was in the civil
service, an Xmas party involved a jolly good time and a certain amount
of arse related photocopying.

No body minded and the women were as game as the blokes for some serious
joking. Noone shagged anyone and noone acted in an offensive way
because, well, people could get mashed without starting a fight...

On 12/02/15 18:38, Bod wrote:
On 12/02/2015 18:10, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/02/15 18:03, Bod wrote:
Yes, but the vast majority of the EU laws that have been added, have
been decided by our politicians.

Absolute total RUBBISH.


To clarify.......our politicians decided to allow the EU laws through, yes.
even that is stretching it.

In a nutshell this is how it goes.
Lobbies spend money with bureaucrats and laws appear in the process
chain. These are for the advantage of narrow interests.
At some point they get voted on. Usually in piles about 6" thick that no
one reads.

MEPS have two choices. read them nit pick and get outvoted, or take the
money, ride the gravy train and have a great life in Brussels eating top
quality food and shagging hot and cold running Eurotarts.


--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 17:43:46 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

What we elected was the 'house of lords' MEPS. They can block
legislation but they *have no sayat all* in proposing it.

So how much Westminster legislation comes from private member's bills?

That is not the point.

It is, actually.

It is voted on by the house of commons

As it is by MEPs

to actuy7ally even GET to the upper house. It can be thrown out. And
largely it is intyrdi8cude because it fulfils eityer4 a real need

Your frothing is starting to short-circuit your keyboard.

"Nightjar.me.uk" "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 12/02/2015 15:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/02/15 14:46, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 12/02/2015 10:53, Tim Watts wrote:
On 12/02/15 09:14, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 12/02/2015 04:12, harryagain wrote:
Something on the telly to watch.
http://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/c...rama_ukip_the/





The smear campaign continues.

Channel 4 did offer Nigel Farage the chance to reply in an interview
with Jon Snow to be shown after the programme. He has declined the
offer.


NOT addressed to you Colin - but a general muttering...



Labour f*ck up the economy *every time*[1] they get in.

The tories f*ck everyone over including the NHS every time.

The Libs had their chance but sold their bumhole to the highest bidder
then spent the next years lying over a barrel.

The Greens f*ck everything up without even being in power.

Now - tell me again why UKIP (or any other fringe party) are somehow
worse that all this?...

They want to take us out of the EU for a start. They also don't seem to
have any polices, other than opposition to immigration and the EU.

First of all, they have more policies than any other party. So I am not
sure where you get the idea that they have no policies, unless you read
the Guardian

Few that don't effectively come down to leave the EU and stop immigration.

Secondly, name me one political party in the last 20 years that has
implemented the policies for which it got elected.

According to a BBC analysis in 2002, the Labour Party achieved nearly 80%
of its 1997 election promises.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/1961522.stm

This, somewhat less independent, analysis claims a number of current
successes for the Conservatives

http://www.jeremylefroy.org.uk/conse...dges-delivered

I can only think of scrapping ID cards and getting the first £10,000 of
everybody's income tax free as successes for the LibDems, but they had
rather less scope for implementing their policies.

Thirdly, what dont you understand about libertarianism? It is a
philosophy that doesn't go for ideological pre-empting of future events:
It is a philosophy that preaches a small government adapting to
situations with pragmatic policies as the need arises, but not before.

IOW, lets not tell people what to expect us to do, as it will leave us
with a free hand to do things they probably wouldn't want us to do if they
knew in advance what we planned.

UKIP should have as few policies as possible, and restrict itself to the
main thrust: To get rid of EU overlordship and restore power to national
government, and then to tackle serious issues on a rational basis as
they arise. And that's ALL the policy they need.

They need a policy to deal with the ruined economy that would result from
an exit from the EU.

UKIP should not have a policy on everything. In fact it should have
almost no policy on anything. That's not a weakness, that's a strength.

You can't really believe that can you?

Yes he can. And he isn't alone in believing that.

Yes, that approach has a real downside for voters deciding
who to vote for, but its a very viable approach never the less.

Not one that I personally agree with tho.

That
is not enough of a basis to run a country. However, it is not whether
they are any worse, but why should anybody support them over one of the
mainstream parties unless they were significantly better?

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
They want to take us out of the EU for a start. They also don't seem to
have any polices, other than opposition to immigration and the EU.

First of all, they have more policies than any other party. So I am not
sure where you get the idea that they have no policies, unless you read
the Guardian


Secondly, name me one political party in the last 20 years that has
implemented the policies for which it got elected.

Thirdly, what dont you understand about libertarianism? It is a
philosophy that doesn't go for ideological pre-empting of future events:
It is a philosophy that preaches a small government adapting to
situations with pragmatic policies as the need arises, but not before.

UKIP should have as few policies as possible,

Given you've stated 'they have more policies than any other party' I take
it you think them a total waste of space, then?

Right between the eyes.

and restrict itself to the
main thrust: To get rid of EU overlordship and restore power to national
government, and then to tackle serious issues on a rational basis as
they arise. And that's ALL the policy they need.

And not long after a third world war. Assuming there enough who think like
you round Europe. That is the logical outcome of 'my country above all
others'.

Not anymore. Nukes mean that there wont be another of those.

You don't need to look afar to see it these days.

Hasn’t happened between the western european
countrys that had been furiously attempting to
rip each other's throats out in almost every
generation for the centurys before that.

Sometimes, some do come to their senses.

Canada and the US wont be going to war against each other again either.

On 12/02/2015 18:56, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/02/15 18:38, Bod wrote:
On 12/02/2015 18:10, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/02/15 18:03, Bod wrote:
Yes, but the vast majority of the EU laws that have been added, have
been decided by our politicians.

Absolute total RUBBISH.


To clarify.......our politicians decided to allow the EU laws through,
yes.
even that is stretching it.

In a nutshell this is how it goes.
Lobbies spend money with bureaucrats and laws appear in the process
chain. These are for the advantage of narrow interests.
At some point they get voted on. Usually in piles about 6" thick that no
one reads.

MEPS have two choices. read them nit pick and get outvoted, or take the
money, ride the gravy train and have a great life in Brussels eating top
quality food and shagging hot and cold running Eurotarts.


Lol.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Bod wrote:
I thought we joined the EU for the common market, not the dictatorship
that the EU has developed into.
THAT's what a *lot* of people are miffed about.
The EU has been a dripping tap, slowly but surely getting more and more
powers over us.

If you think about it, a common market also requires lots of other things
being equalised, if it is to have any chance of working.

No it does not with the stupid stuff like with the naming
of wines etc or how vacuum cleaners are done.

On 12/02/2015 17:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/02/15 15:46, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 12/02/2015 15:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/02/15 14:46, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 12/02/2015 10:53, Tim Watts wrote:
On 12/02/15 09:14, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 12/02/2015 04:12, harryagain wrote:
Something on the telly to watch.
http://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/c...rama_ukip_the/







The smear campaign continues.

Channel 4 did offer Nigel Farage the chance to reply in an interview
with Jon Snow to be shown after the programme. He has declined the
offer.


NOT addressed to you Colin - but a general muttering...



Labour f*ck up the economy *every time*[1] they get in.

The tories f*ck everyone over including the NHS every time.

The Libs had their chance but sold their bumhole to the highest bidder
then spent the next years lying over a barrel.

The Greens f*ck everything up without even being in power.

Now - tell me again why UKIP (or any other fringe party) are somehow
worse that all this?...

They want to take us out of the EU for a start. They also don't seem to
have any polices, other than opposition to immigration and the EU.

First of all, they have more policies than any other party. So I am not
sure where you get the idea that they have no policies, unless you read
the Guardian

Few that don't effectively come down to leave the EU and stop
immigration.

Secondly, name me one political party in the last 20 years that has
implemented the policies for which it got elected.

According to a BBC analysis in 2002, the Labour Party achieved nearly
80% of its 1997 election promises.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/1961522.stm

This, somewhat less independent, analysis claims a number of current
successes for the Conservatives

http://www.jeremylefroy.org.uk/conse...dges-delivered



I can only think of scrapping ID cards and getting the first £10,000 of
everybody's income tax free as successes for the LibDems, but they had
rather less scope for implementing their policies.

Thirdly, what dont you understand about libertarianism? It is a
philosophy that doesn't go for ideological pre-empting of future events:
It is a philosophy that preaches a small government adapting to
situations with pragmatic policies as the need arises, but not before.

IOW, lets not tell people what to expect us to do, as it will leave us
with a free hand to do things they probably wouldn't want us to do if
they knew in advance what we planned.

UKIP should have as few policies as possible, and restrict itself to the
main thrust: To get rid of EU overlordship and restore power to national
government, and then to tackle serious issues on a rational basis as
they arise. And that's ALL the policy they need.

They need a policy to deal with the ruined economy that would result
from an exit from the EU.


but the whole point of leaving the EU is to repair tyhe already ruined
economy.

The recession has absolutely nothing to do with us being in the EU and
leaving will only divorce us from one of our largest overseas markets.
It would be a complete disaster.

I have been around since 1950. I have never seen people ion general more
depressed and miserable than the last 5 years.

Blame the banks that invested in toxic debts, not the EU.

I visited Czechoslovakia a year after the wall came down. Britain today
resembles it. Except there is no hope left in Britain.

You obviously live in a different part from me. What I see around me is
businesses expanding and an economy that is growing.

UKIP should not have a policy on everything. In fact it should have
almost no policy on anything. That's not a weakness, that's a strength.

You can't really believe that can you?

Absolutely6. No policy ion fo9xshubtning, gay marriage, plain wrappings
on cigarettes sod all that.

We have a few very urgent problems.

We are flat broke,.

Rubbish. Our national debt is 88% of our GDP, so we don't owe more than
we can pay and the national deficit is set to turn positive within a
couple of years, so we won't end up owning more than we can pay.

we are being invaded by LEGAL immigrants,

Who wouldn't be coming here is the situation were as bad as you make out
and they are far more likely to be making a contribution to the British
economy than native British.

and we
have no power to stop anything or change anything because the EU sets
the rules.

As I said elsewhere, the amount of UK legislation originating from the
EU is 15% to 50%, depending upon how you set the criteria. Even then,
much of that legislation would have been passed by a British government
in very similar form even if we had not been part of the EU.

That
is not enough of a basis to run a country. However, it is not whether
they are any worse, but why should anybody support them over one of the
mainstream parties unless they were significantly better?


I think no government at all especially no EU government would be
better than what we have.

Anarchy is not better than anything.


--
Colin Bignell

On 12/02/2015 17:11, Bod wrote:
On 12/02/2015 16:51, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 12/02/2015 15:58, Tim Watts wrote:
On 12/02/15 14:46, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 12/02/2015 10:53, Tim Watts wrote:

Now - tell me again why UKIP (or any other fringe party) are somehow
worse that all this?...

They want to take us out of the EU for a start.

They probably should - we are getting hamstrung in way too many central
dictacts.


Despite UKIP's wild claims, the amount of UK legislation originating in
the EU is anything from 15% to 50%, depending upon how you define your
criteria. In practice, a high proportion of that legislation would have
been passed into UK law in similar form even if it had not been EU
legislation and some, such as regulations about tobacco and olive
growing, have little or no effect in the UK.

Really!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ry-claims.html

As that says:

“All measurements have their problems and it is possible to justify any
measure between 15 per cent and 50 per cent or thereabouts.”
The study adds that “the answer lies somewhere in between” the two numbers.

--
Colin Bignell

"Capitol" wrote in message
...
Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Tim Watts
wrote:

Labour f*ck up the economy *every time*[1] they get in.

The tories f*ck everyone over including the NHS every time.

No, they fix the economy from last time. Don't ask me what Andrew
Lansley was smoking, however.

The Libs had their chance but sold their bumhole to the highest bidder
then spent the next years lying over a barrel.

What else d'ye suppose they should have done? And much as I despise the
Libs, to be fair to them, your comment just illustrates that people -
most people - don't appear to understand what a coalition entails.
Coalition
---------

Step 1. Tear up your manifesto in its entirety.
Step 2. Negotiate a coalition agreement with your new partners.
Step 3. Form a govt and present the agreement to the people as
what this govt will do.

Note that this agreement has not been voted on by the electorate (which
is why coalitions are generally a bad idea, and why we should resist
the notion of changing the electoral system away from FPTP). The
agreement may, or may not, contain elements from your manifesto.

The Greens f*ck everything up without even being in power.

Well they're in power in Brighton & Hove and it's been one long binmen
strike.

Now - tell me again why UKIP (or any other fringe party) are somehow
worse that all this?

Any political party is *already* a coalition and with my comments above
is why we need to avoid another (as in, more than one party of
government) at all costs. The Libs will demand more PR, they with the
Greens and SNP will destroy the nuclear industry and our National
Defence. If you really want Millibean at No. 10 supported by the SNP
and ShinFane (sp?) or some other revolting combination then feel free
to vote UKIP.

And don't tell me that the UKIP strategy is that after 5 years of this
everyone will vote a UKIP govt in then believe me, there'll be nothing
left.


So reelecting Camoron will solve all the problems?

No political group can solve all the problems, some are
intractable, like the fact that Britain is past its best by date.

I'm with self sufficiency and UKIP.

But clearly you are in a very small minority on that.

"Capitol" wrote in message
...
Nightjar cpb@ wrote:
On 12/02/2015 15:58, Tim Watts wrote:
On 12/02/15 14:46, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 12/02/2015 10:53, Tim Watts wrote:

Now - tell me again why UKIP (or any other fringe party) are somehow
worse that all this?...

They want to take us out of the EU for a start.

They probably should - we are getting hamstrung in way too many central
dictacts.


Despite UKIP's wild claims, the amount of UK legislation originating in
the EU is anything from 15% to 50%, depending upon how you define your
criteria. In practice, a high proportion of that legislation would have
been passed into UK law in similar form even if it had not been EU
legislation and some, such as regulations about tobacco and olive
growing, have little or no effect in the UK.


So 50% of legislation coming from an unelected source not having your best
interests at heart is a good thing?

Not having your best interests at heart is very arguable.

On 12/02/2015 18:28, Bod wrote:
On 12/02/2015 17:43, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
....
Most Brussels legislation isn't even voted on by anybody. Its another
'regulation' that slides in under the radar.


YUp, one day we are buying our fruit and the next day we can't buy the
wrong shape of bananas.

A decision by the British food standards agency, who implemented the EU
rules far more rigorously than their European counterparts. The relevant
regulations were later largely scrapped because of representations to
the EU from farmers, growers and retailers.

--
Colin Bignell

On 12/02/2015 19:17, Rod Speed wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Bod wrote:
I thought we joined the EU for the common market, not the dictatorship
that the EU has developed into.
THAT's what a *lot* of people are miffed about.
The EU has been a dripping tap, slowly but surely getting more and more
powers over us.

If you think about it, a common market also requires lots of other things
being equalised, if it is to have any chance of working.

No it does not with the stupid stuff like with the naming
of wines etc or how vacuum cleaners are done.

Where can I buy a straight banana these days or a slightly undersized
apple? I know it's naughty, but the EU says I can't buy them
Will I get prosecuted if I do find one? :-)

"Nightjar.me.uk" "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 12/02/2015 16:31, Bod wrote:
On 12/02/2015 15:58, Tim Watts wrote:
On 12/02/15 14:46, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 12/02/2015 10:53, Tim Watts wrote:

Now - tell me again why UKIP (or any other fringe party) are somehow
worse that all this?...

They want to take us out of the EU for a start.

They probably should - we are getting hamstrung in way too many central
dictacts.

I thought we joined the EU for the common market, not the dictatorship
that the EU has developed into.
THAT's what a *lot* of people are miffed about.
The EU has been a dripping tap, slowly but surely getting more and more
powers over us.

Much of that power comes from the Single Europe Act, which was very
strongly promoted by the British Government, so we were quite instrumental
in the EU becoming what it is today.

Doesn’t mean that that made any sense tho.

Interesting contrast to what has happened with Scotland and Britain.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Capitol wrote:
Despite UKIP's wild claims, the amount of UK legislation originating in
the EU is anything from 15% to 50%, depending upon how you define your
criteria. In practice, a high proportion of that legislation would have
been passed into UK law in similar form even if it had not been EU
legislation and some, such as regulations about tobacco and olive
growing, have little or no effect in the UK.


So 50% of legislation coming from an unelected source not having your
best interests at heart is a good thing?

Then who's interests do they have at heart?

The bureaucrats. More power for them basically.

On 12/02/2015 18:08, Bob Henson wrote:
On 12/02/2015 4:55 pm, Tim Streater wrote:


The other day Farage was prevented from coming outside the UKIP office
in Rotherham by a "furious crowd"

That's because socialists don't believe in free speech. There was a
longish article in the Times the other day about this lefty tendency:

1) I am a nice person who believes in being nice to furry animals etc

2) You oppose me

3) Therefore you believe in being cruel to nice furry animals

4) Therefore you are a nasty person who has no right to speak and it is
therefore my duty to bash you over the head to prevent you speaking

It's really very simple and I wonder why you are so surprised.


That's about it - the real fascists are on the Left.


Word games.

Tim W

On 12/02/2015 19:46, Rod Speed wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Capitol wrote:
Despite UKIP's wild claims, the amount of UK legislation
originating in
the EU is anything from 15% to 50%, depending upon how you define your
criteria. In practice, a high proportion of that legislation would
have
been passed into UK law in similar form even if it had not been EU
legislation and some, such as regulations about tobacco and olive
growing, have little or no effect in the UK.


So 50% of legislation coming from an unelected source not having your
best interests at heart is a good thing?

Then who's interests do they have at heart?

The bureaucrats. More power for them basically.

AND....more money for the fatcat dictators.

On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 19:18:51 +0000, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:

I have been around since 1950. I have never seen people ion general
more depressed and miserable than the last 5 years.

Blame the banks that invested in toxic debts, not the EU.

A financial sector that a certain ex-commodity trader wants to deregulate.

A financial sector that is about 10% of the country's GDP.

A financial sector that would almost certainly shift much of their
business to Frankfurt if the UK left the EU.

On 12/02/2015 18:30, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/02/15 18:21, john james wrote:
Now - tell me again why UKIP (or any other fringe party) are somehow
worse that all this?

Because they would produce a much more spectacular shambles if the
voters were ever actually stupid enough to let them run the country

And you know this how?


It's a self evident fact. They are a bunch of clowns at best. Nasty
fools at worst.

Tim W

On 12/02/2015 19:50, Adrian wrote:
On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 19:18:51 +0000, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:

I have been around since 1950. I have never seen people ion general
more depressed and miserable than the last 5 years.

Blame the banks that invested in toxic debts, not the EU.

A financial sector that a certain ex-commodity trader wants to deregulate.

A financial sector that is about 10% of the country's GDP.

A financial sector that would almost certainly shift much of their
business to Frankfurt if the UK left the EU.

Why?

On 12/02/2015 19:50, Tim w wrote:
On 12/02/2015 18:30, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/02/15 18:21, john james wrote:
Now - tell me again why UKIP (or any other fringe party) are somehow
worse that all this?

Because they would produce a much more spectacular shambles if the
voters were ever actually stupid enough to let them run the country

And you know this how?


It's a self evident fact. They are a bunch of clowns at best. Nasty
fools at worst.

Tim W

There you go, that's the typical patronising that the other partys like
to evoke.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 12/02/15 18:21, john james wrote:
Now - tell me again why UKIP (or any other fringe party) are somehow
worse that all this?

Because they would produce a much more spectacular shambles if the
voters were ever actually stupid enough to let them run the country

And you know this how?

They can't even manage to produce a policy document that
Farage is prepared to endorse. No chance that they could
actually run a country if they can't even manage to do that.

Why isn't he prepared to commit to having a referendum on
leaving the EU or is he proposing to just leave the EU without
having one and doesnt have the balls to say he will do that ?

"Bod" wrote in message
...
On 12/02/2015 19:17, Rod Speed wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Bod wrote:
I thought we joined the EU for the common market, not the dictatorship
that the EU has developed into.
THAT's what a *lot* of people are miffed about.
The EU has been a dripping tap, slowly but surely getting more and more
powers over us.

If you think about it, a common market also requires lots of other
things
being equalised, if it is to have any chance of working.

No it does not with the stupid stuff like with the naming
of wines etc or how vacuum cleaners are done.

Where can I buy a straight banana these days or a slightly undersized
apple? I know it's naughty, but the EU says I can't buy them
Will I get prosecuted if I do find one? :-)

No, just burnt at the stake.