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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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OT - UKIP
Something on the telly to watch.
http://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/c...rama_ukip_the/ The smear campaign continues. |
#2
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OT - UKIP
On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 04:12:56 +0000, harryagain wrote:
Something on the telly to watch. http://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/2veprh/ wildly_antiukip_channel_4_docudrama_ukip_the/ The smear campaign continues. Good to see that you're waiting to actually watch it before condemning it. Have you stopped to wonder why people might think that UKIP's full of wierdos, bigots and monomaniacs? thinks Still, at least you've found your natural home. |
#3
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OT - UKIP
On 12/02/15 08:50, Adrian wrote:
Have you stopped to wonder why people might think that UKIP's full of wierdos, bigots and monomaniacs? I thought we were talking about UKIP? You've just described all the parties... |
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OT - UKIP
On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 09:03:18 +0000, Tim Watts wrote:
Have you stopped to wonder why people might think that UKIP's full of wierdos, bigots and monomaniacs? I thought we were talking about UKIP? You've just described all the parties... True. But even more so. |
#5
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OT - UKIP
On 12/02/2015 08:50, Adrian wrote:
On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 04:12:56 +0000, harryagain wrote: Something on the telly to watch. http://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/2veprh/ wildly_antiukip_channel_4_docudrama_ukip_the/ The smear campaign continues. Good to see that you're waiting to actually watch it before condemning it. TBH, it is a docudrama on Channel 4, so the chances of it being any good are not that high. :-) It is also obviously high in fantasy - it has an Asian woman MP in UKIP. http://www.ge2015.co.uk/meet-the-uki...tics/#more-204 Have you stopped to wonder why people might think that UKIP's full of wierdos, bigots and monomaniacs? thinks Still, at least you've found your natural home. -- Colin Bignell |
#6
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OT - UKIP
On 12/02/15 08:50, Adrian wrote:
On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 04:12:56 +0000, harryagain wrote: Something on the telly to watch. http://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/2veprh/ wildly_antiukip_channel_4_docudrama_ukip_the/ The smear campaign continues. Good to see that you're waiting to actually watch it before condemning it. Have you stopped to wonder why people might think that UKIP's full of wierdos, bigots and monomaniacs? No, its obvious. Because that is the narrative that has been created by those that own fund and advertise in the MSM to discredit them prior to the election. Having met a great many ULKIP members candidates and MEPs it ois glaringly obvious that they are nothing like that at all. OTOH having also met CP MPs it is also glaringly obvious that concern over their bank balances images and careers consistently outweighs concern for their electorate, or the country. thinks Still, at least you've found your natural home. -- Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. Erwin Knoll |
#7
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OT - UKIP
On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 09:50:08 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Have you stopped to wonder why people might think that UKIP's full of wierdos, bigots and monomaniacs? No, its obvious. Yes, it is. Having met a great many ULKIP members candidates and MEPs it ois glaringly obvious that they are nothing like that at all. So why on _earth_ does Farridge keep allowing so many wierdos, bigots and monomaniacs to represent the party? |
#8
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OT - UKIP
On 12/02/15 09:55, Adrian wrote:
On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 09:50:08 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote: Have you stopped to wonder why people might think that UKIP's full of wierdos, bigots and monomaniacs? No, its obvious. Yes, it is. Having met a great many ULKIP members candidates and MEPs it ois glaringly obvious that they are nothing like that at all. So why on _earth_ does Farridge keep allowing so many wierdos, bigots and monomaniacs to represent the party? *Farage* doesn't. The MSM scour the media for anything they can use to create the impression that he does. Just about every time a rotten egg surfaces, it turns out he/she was a (deliberate?)refugee from another political party. Its a simply ploy. Leave CP/Labour. Join UKIP who welcome you with open arms, wait for opportune moment to do most damage, then leave with an unpleasant accusation that fits the narrative. And as much inside informations as possible Simples! -- Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. Erwin Knoll |
#9
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OT - UKIP
On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 10:24:01 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
So why on _earth_ does Farridge keep allowing so many wierdos, bigots and monomaniacs to represent the party? *Farage* doesn't. Then he has bollock all control over the rest of his party. The MSM scour the media for anything they can use to create the impression that he does. Because, of course, (to take just one example) re-appointing somebody as first on the regional MEP candidate list years after a series of hugely controversial views on rape, homosexuality, and almost every other subject under the sun doesn't condone those kind of comments, at all, does it? And then not taking any action when that self-same controversy- on-legs is photographed leaving out of a knocking-shop, with his only comment to the press being "Well, we all deserve a private life"? Oh, wait. He's an ex-Tory MEP. Just wait - there'll be a wriggle coming up in a sec... Just about every time a rotten egg surfaces, it turns out he/she was a (deliberate?)refugee from another political party. Just like both MPs and the party leader, you mean? The impression given by such a never-ending stream of wierdos, bigots and monomaniacs being repeatedly appointed, re-appointed and tacitly approved as candidates is of a party which either condones them or doesn't have a lot of choice, because the choice is them or nobody. Which is it? And, fwiw, the one UKIP Westminster candidate who I actually know is, frankly, utterly hatstand. Most supporters are either utterly deluded or just don't really know what UKIP are other than vaguely "It's all the fault of Johnny Foreigner. I know, because the Daily Mail tells me so, and they wouldn't lie to me." |
#10
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OT - UKIP
On 12/02/2015 10:24, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/02/15 09:55, Adrian wrote: On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 09:50:08 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote: Have you stopped to wonder why people might think that UKIP's full of wierdos, bigots and monomaniacs? No, its obvious. Yes, it is. Having met a great many ULKIP members candidates and MEPs it ois glaringly obvious that they are nothing like that at all. So why on _earth_ does Farridge keep allowing so many wierdos, bigots and monomaniacs to represent the party? *Farage* doesn't. For some reason, I always think his name is Falange. The MSM scour the media for anything they can use to create the impression that he does. They don't seem to need to dig very deeply. Just about every time a rotten egg surfaces, it turns out he/she was a (deliberate?)refugee from another political party. As only 15% of UKIP candidates are new to politics, it is hardly surprising that there are many who have transferred their allegiance from another party. Its a simply ploy. Leave CP/Labour. Join UKIP who welcome you with open arms, wait for opportune moment to do most damage, then leave with an unpleasant accusation that fits the narrative. And as much inside informations as possible Alternatively, they simply are the sort of people who are naturally attracted to UKIP. -- Colin Bignell |
#11
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OT - UKIP
On 12/02/2015 10:24 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/02/15 09:55, Adrian wrote: On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 09:50:08 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote: Have you stopped to wonder why people might think that UKIP's full of wierdos, bigots and monomaniacs? No, its obvious. Yes, it is. Having met a great many ULKIP members candidates and MEPs it ois glaringly obvious that they are nothing like that at all. So why on _earth_ does Farridge keep allowing so many wierdos, bigots and monomaniacs to represent the party? *Farage* doesn't. The MSM scour the media for anything they can use to create the impression that he does. Just about every time a rotten egg surfaces, it turns out he/she was a (deliberate?)refugee from another political party. Its a simply ploy. Leave CP/Labour. Join UKIP who welcome you with open arms, wait for opportune moment to do most damage, then leave with an unpleasant accusation that fits the narrative. And as much inside informations as possible Simples! I amazes me that people find it so difficult to see that that is happening. The other parties are running scared of UKIP, and I can't ever recall them spending so much time trying every dirty trick in the book to blacken another party's name. However, the election will speak for itself, as indeed the recent by-elections already have - and a lot of people will have to eat their words. I just hope the result will give UKIP enough power to insist on an immediate referendum to get us out of Europe (as indeed it surely would), and to remove the other politicians' noses out of that particularly corrupt trough. Strangely enough, the press and TV don't seem to be spending much time discussing why both Cameron and Milligram are working so hard to stay in an organisation whose auditors have refused to sign off the books for fourteen years on the trot. -- Bob Tetbury, Gloucestershire, England I can't see the point in the theatre. All that sex and violence. I get enough of that at home. Apart from the sex, of course. - Baldrick - Sense and Senility |
#12
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OT - UKIP
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote: Its a simply ploy. Leave CP/Labour. Join UKIP who welcome you with open arms, wait for opportune moment to do most damage, then leave with an unpleasant accusation that fits the narrative. And as much inside informations as possible That could be written on the back of a fag packet. -- *Why were the Indians here first? They had reservations.* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#13
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OT - UKIP
On 12/02/2015 09:55, Adrian wrote:
So why on _earth_ does Farridge keep allowing so many wierdos, bigots and monomaniacs to represent the party? He probably has no more wierdos etc. than any other political party. What he doesn't have is the 3 line whip system to keep them in check. -- mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk |
#14
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OT - UKIP
On 12/02/2015 09:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/02/15 08:50, Adrian wrote: .... Have you stopped to wonder why people might think that UKIP's full of wierdos, bigots and monomaniacs? No, its obvious. Because that is the narrative that has been created by those that own fund and advertise in the MSM to discredit them prior to the election.... Ahhh - a conspiracy; that explains it. -- Colin Bignell |
#15
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OT - UKIP
On 12/02/2015 08:50, Adrian wrote:
On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 04:12:56 +0000, harryagain wrote: Something on the telly to watch. http://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/2veprh/ wildly_antiukip_channel_4_docudrama_ukip_the/ The smear campaign continues. Good to see that you're waiting to actually watch it before condemning it. Have you stopped to wonder why people might think that UKIP's full of wierdos, bigots and monomaniacs? thinks Still, at least you've found your natural home. Given that TNP and harry like UKIP then its best to vote for anyone else. |
#16
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OT - UKIP
On 12/02/2015 20:21, Dennis@home wrote:
On 12/02/2015 08:50, Adrian wrote: On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 04:12:56 +0000, harryagain wrote: Something on the telly to watch. http://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/2veprh/ wildly_antiukip_channel_4_docudrama_ukip_the/ The smear campaign continues. Good to see that you're waiting to actually watch it before condemning it. Have you stopped to wonder why people might think that UKIP's full of wierdos, bigots and monomaniacs? thinks Still, at least you've found your natural home. Given that TNP and harry like UKIP then its best to vote for anyone else. Hmm! Is that method your idea of an intelligent way to decide who to vote for? :-) |
#17
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OT - UKIP
On 12/02/2015 04:12, harryagain wrote:
Something on the telly to watch. http://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/c...rama_ukip_the/ The smear campaign continues. Channel 4 did offer Nigel Farage the chance to reply in an interview with Jon Snow to be shown after the programme. He has declined the offer. -- Colin Bignell |
#18
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OT - UKIP
On 12/02/15 09:14, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 12/02/2015 04:12, harryagain wrote: Something on the telly to watch. http://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/c...rama_ukip_the/ The smear campaign continues. Channel 4 did offer Nigel Farage the chance to reply in an interview with Jon Snow to be shown after the programme. He has declined the offer. NOT addressed to you Colin - but a general muttering... Labour f*ck up the economy *every time*[1] they get in. The tories f*ck everyone over including the NHS every time. The Libs had their chance but sold their bumhole to the highest bidder then spent the next years lying over a barrel. The Greens f*ck everything up without even being in power. Now - tell me again why UKIP (or any other fringe party) are somehow worse that all this? [1] This time was special - they might have had the choice not to get involved in the vanity wars and save a fortune, but they might still have been caught out by the bank crisis. |
#19
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OT - UKIP
On 12/02/2015 10:53, Tim Watts wrote:
On 12/02/15 09:14, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote: On 12/02/2015 04:12, harryagain wrote: Something on the telly to watch. http://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/c...rama_ukip_the/ The smear campaign continues. Channel 4 did offer Nigel Farage the chance to reply in an interview with Jon Snow to be shown after the programme. He has declined the offer. NOT addressed to you Colin - but a general muttering... Labour f*ck up the economy *every time*[1] they get in. The tories f*ck everyone over including the NHS every time. The Libs had their chance but sold their bumhole to the highest bidder then spent the next years lying over a barrel. The Greens f*ck everything up without even being in power. Now - tell me again why UKIP (or any other fringe party) are somehow worse that all this?... They want to take us out of the EU for a start. They also don't seem to have any polices, other than opposition to immigration and the EU. That is not enough of a basis to run a country. However, it is not whether they are any worse, but why should anybody support them over one of the mainstream parties unless they were significantly better? -- Colin Bignell |
#20
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OT - UKIP
On 12/02/15 14:46, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 12/02/2015 10:53, Tim Watts wrote: On 12/02/15 09:14, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote: On 12/02/2015 04:12, harryagain wrote: Something on the telly to watch. http://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/c...rama_ukip_the/ The smear campaign continues. Channel 4 did offer Nigel Farage the chance to reply in an interview with Jon Snow to be shown after the programme. He has declined the offer. NOT addressed to you Colin - but a general muttering... Labour f*ck up the economy *every time*[1] they get in. The tories f*ck everyone over including the NHS every time. The Libs had their chance but sold their bumhole to the highest bidder then spent the next years lying over a barrel. The Greens f*ck everything up without even being in power. Now - tell me again why UKIP (or any other fringe party) are somehow worse that all this?... They want to take us out of the EU for a start. They also don't seem to have any polices, other than opposition to immigration and the EU. First of all, they have more policies than any other party. So I am not sure where you get the idea that they have no policies, unless you read the Guardian Secondly, name me one political party in the last 20 years that has implemented the policies for which it got elected. Thirdly, what dont you understand about libertarianism? It is a philosophy that doesn't go for ideological pre-empting of future events: It is a philosophy that preaches a small government adapting to situations with pragmatic policies as the need arises, but not before. UKIP should have as few policies as possible, and restrict itself to the main thrust: To get rid of EU overlordship and restore power to national government, and then to tackle serious issues on a rational basis as they arise. And that's ALL the policy they need. UKIP should not have a policy on everything. In fact it should have almost no policy on anything. That's not a weakness, that's a strength. That is not enough of a basis to run a country. However, it is not whether they are any worse, but why should anybody support them over one of the mainstream parties unless they were significantly better? -- Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. Erwin Knoll |
#21
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OT - UKIP
On 12/02/2015 15:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/02/15 14:46, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote: On 12/02/2015 10:53, Tim Watts wrote: On 12/02/15 09:14, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote: On 12/02/2015 04:12, harryagain wrote: Something on the telly to watch. http://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/c...rama_ukip_the/ The smear campaign continues. Channel 4 did offer Nigel Farage the chance to reply in an interview with Jon Snow to be shown after the programme. He has declined the offer. NOT addressed to you Colin - but a general muttering... Labour f*ck up the economy *every time*[1] they get in. The tories f*ck everyone over including the NHS every time. The Libs had their chance but sold their bumhole to the highest bidder then spent the next years lying over a barrel. The Greens f*ck everything up without even being in power. Now - tell me again why UKIP (or any other fringe party) are somehow worse that all this?... They want to take us out of the EU for a start. They also don't seem to have any polices, other than opposition to immigration and the EU. First of all, they have more policies than any other party. So I am not sure where you get the idea that they have no policies, unless you read the Guardian Few that don't effectively come down to leave the EU and stop immigration. Secondly, name me one political party in the last 20 years that has implemented the policies for which it got elected. According to a BBC analysis in 2002, the Labour Party achieved nearly 80% of its 1997 election promises. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/1961522.stm This, somewhat less independent, analysis claims a number of current successes for the Conservatives http://www.jeremylefroy.org.uk/conse...dges-delivered I can only think of scrapping ID cards and getting the first Β£10,000 of everybody's income tax free as successes for the LibDems, but they had rather less scope for implementing their policies. Thirdly, what dont you understand about libertarianism? It is a philosophy that doesn't go for ideological pre-empting of future events: It is a philosophy that preaches a small government adapting to situations with pragmatic policies as the need arises, but not before. IOW, lets not tell people what to expect us to do, as it will leave us with a free hand to do things they probably wouldn't want us to do if they knew in advance what we planned. UKIP should have as few policies as possible, and restrict itself to the main thrust: To get rid of EU overlordship and restore power to national government, and then to tackle serious issues on a rational basis as they arise. And that's ALL the policy they need. They need a policy to deal with the ruined economy that would result from an exit from the EU. UKIP should not have a policy on everything. In fact it should have almost no policy on anything. That's not a weakness, that's a strength. You can't really believe that can you? That is not enough of a basis to run a country. However, it is not whether they are any worse, but why should anybody support them over one of the mainstream parties unless they were significantly better? -- Colin Bignell |
#22
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OT - UKIP
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote: They want to take us out of the EU for a start. They also don't seem to have any polices, other than opposition to immigration and the EU. First of all, they have more policies than any other party. So I am not sure where you get the idea that they have no policies, unless you read the Guardian Secondly, name me one political party in the last 20 years that has implemented the policies for which it got elected. Thirdly, what dont you understand about libertarianism? It is a philosophy that doesn't go for ideological pre-empting of future events: It is a philosophy that preaches a small government adapting to situations with pragmatic policies as the need arises, but not before. UKIP should have as few policies as possible, Given you've stated 'they have more policies than any other party' I take it you think them a total waste of space, then? and restrict itself to the main thrust: To get rid of EU overlordship and restore power to national government, and then to tackle serious issues on a rational basis as they arise. And that's ALL the policy they need. And not long after a third world war. Assuming there enough who think like you round Europe. That is the logical outcome of 'my country above all others'. You don't need to look afar to see it these days. -- *Marriage changes passion - suddenly you're in bed with a relative* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#23
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OT - UKIP
On 12/02/15 14:46, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 12/02/2015 10:53, Tim Watts wrote: Now - tell me again why UKIP (or any other fringe party) are somehow worse that all this?... They want to take us out of the EU for a start. They probably should - we are getting hamstrung in way too many central dictacts. |
#24
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OT - UKIP
On 12/02/2015 15:58, Tim Watts wrote:
On 12/02/15 14:46, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote: On 12/02/2015 10:53, Tim Watts wrote: Now - tell me again why UKIP (or any other fringe party) are somehow worse that all this?... They want to take us out of the EU for a start. They probably should - we are getting hamstrung in way too many central dictacts. I thought we joined the EU for the common market, not the dictatorship that the EU has developed into. THAT's what a *lot* of people are miffed about. The EU has been a dripping tap, slowly but surely getting more and more powers over us. |
#25
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OT - UKIP
On 12/02/2015 15:58, Tim Watts wrote:
On 12/02/15 14:46, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote: On 12/02/2015 10:53, Tim Watts wrote: Now - tell me again why UKIP (or any other fringe party) are somehow worse that all this?... They want to take us out of the EU for a start. They probably should - we are getting hamstrung in way too many central dictacts. Despite UKIP's wild claims, the amount of UK legislation originating in the EU is anything from 15% to 50%, depending upon how you define your criteria. In practice, a high proportion of that legislation would have been passed into UK law in similar form even if it had not been EU legislation and some, such as regulations about tobacco and olive growing, have little or no effect in the UK. -- Colin Bignell |
#26
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OT - UKIP
On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 14:46:16 +0000, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
They also don't seem to have any polices, other than opposition to immigration and the EU. I guess we'll see, when an actual real national party manifesto gets published. It can't be dafter or thinner on reality than the last one, which even Nigel dismisses as "drivel", despite having signed the intro. |
#27
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OT - UKIP
Nightjar posted
They want to take us out of the EU for a start. They also don't seem to have any polices, other than opposition to immigration and the EU. That is not enough of a basis to run a country. Do you really believe that UKIP's aim is to "run the country"? Is it not clear to you that their purpose is to gain sufficient leverage to force a referendum on EU membership? -- Les |
#28
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OT - UKIP
On 13/02/15 10:44, Big Les Wade wrote:
Nightjar posted They want to take us out of the EU for a start. They also don't seem to have any polices, other than opposition to immigration and the EU. That is not enough of a basis to run a country. Do you really believe that UKIP's aim is to "run the country"? Is it not clear to you that their purpose is to gain sufficient leverage to force a referendum on EU membership? First of all UKIP per se is not a unitary organism and different people are in it for different reasons. The common them however is that all who are in it find that whatever they consider needs doing *cannot be dome on account of the EU*. And largely even out of the EU, could not be be done without dismantling fairly large swathes of existing QUANGOS etc. So the aim is very simple: exit the EU and save a huge amount, then stop funding useless NGOS and save a lot more - obviously the useless members of those NGOS then become a social security burden, but any that are any good will get jobs in a newly de regulated private sector that will flourish because it has the minimum level of bureaucracy standing in its way. Just as Thatcher was elected to do a specific task, take on and reduce Union power for the good of the non Union nation, so UKIP will be elected to do a specific job. Reduce centralised government interference and burden to improve economic productivity. Once done arguably UKIP has no reason left to exist. Once the UK is an independent self-governing nation again then politics can resume its usual tawdry course: The difference being that the politicians who subsequently get elected will have the power to carry out any electoral promises and will be accountable for the results of their meddling. -- Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. Erwin Knoll |
#29
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OT - UKIP
Not addressing this point specifically and replying to BLW for no good reason other than, well, I was here anyway... Isn't it interesting that any argument involving UKIP basically settles out to a homogenous blend of: 1 Argumentum ad ignorantiam 2 Guilt by association 3 Argumentum ad populum 4 and a sprinkling of argumentum ad hominem And these are used by both sides! 1 - Noone knows how competent UKIP would be in power until they actually prove themselves (one way or another) 2 - Some swivel eyed loons were senior UKIP members (and there might still be some). All groups, political or otherwise are guaranteed to have a certain number of undesirables even if it is not in line with the group's stated position. Look at the 2 main parties for plenty of examples. 3 - Guaranteed in any political debate. 4 - well... I say, if you like UKIP, vote for them. They clearly are not the EDL. And if you think they are all swivel eyed loons, don't. |
#30
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OT - UKIP
"Tim Watts" wrote in message ... On 12/02/15 09:14, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote: On 12/02/2015 04:12, harryagain wrote: Something on the telly to watch. http://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/c...rama_ukip_the/ The smear campaign continues. Channel 4 did offer Nigel Farage the chance to reply in an interview with Jon Snow to be shown after the programme. He has declined the offer. NOT addressed to you Colin - but a general muttering... Labour f*ck up the economy *every time*[1] they get in. The tories f*ck everyone over including the NHS every time. The Libs had their chance but sold their bumhole to the highest bidder then spent the next years lying over a barrel. The Greens f*ck everything up without even being in power. Now - tell me again why UKIP (or any other fringe party) are somehow worse that all this? Because they would produce a much more spectacular shambles if the voters were ever actually stupid enough to let them run the country. [1] This time was special - they might have had the choice not to get involved in the vanity wars and save a fortune, but they might still have been caught out by the bank crisis. No might about it, they would certainly have been. A couple of countries were not, particularly Canada and Australia, but that was for reasons that dont apply to places like Britain. |
#31
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OT - UKIP
On 12/02/15 18:21, john james wrote:
Now - tell me again why UKIP (or any other fringe party) are somehow worse that all this? Because they would produce a much more spectacular shambles if the voters were ever actually stupid enough to let them run the country And you know this how? -- Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. Erwin Knoll |
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OT - UKIP
On 12/02/2015 18:30, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/02/15 18:21, john james wrote: Now - tell me again why UKIP (or any other fringe party) are somehow worse that all this? Because they would produce a much more spectacular shambles if the voters were ever actually stupid enough to let them run the country And you know this how? It's a self evident fact. They are a bunch of clowns at best. Nasty fools at worst. Tim W |
#33
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OT - UKIP
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message ... On 12/02/15 18:21, john james wrote: Now - tell me again why UKIP (or any other fringe party) are somehow worse that all this? Because they would produce a much more spectacular shambles if the voters were ever actually stupid enough to let them run the country And you know this how? They can't even manage to produce a policy document that Farage is prepared to endorse. No chance that they could actually run a country if they can't even manage to do that. Why isn't he prepared to commit to having a referendum on leaving the EU or is he proposing to just leave the EU without having one and doesnt have the balls to say he will do that ? |
#34
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OT - UKIP
Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Tim Watts wrote: Labour f*ck up the economy *every time*[1] they get in. The tories f*ck everyone over including the NHS every time. No, they fix the economy from last time. Don't ask me what Andrew Lansley was smoking, however. The Libs had their chance but sold their bumhole to the highest bidder then spent the next years lying over a barrel. What else d'ye suppose they should have done? And much as I despise the Libs, to be fair to them, your comment just illustrates that people - most people - don't appear to understand what a coalition entails. Coalition --------- Step 1. Tear up your manifesto in its entirety. Step 2. Negotiate a coalition agreement with your new partners. Step 3. Form a govt and present the agreement to the people as what this govt will do. Note that this agreement has not been voted on by the electorate (which is why coalitions are generally a bad idea, and why we should resist the notion of changing the electoral system away from FPTP). The agreement may, or may not, contain elements from your manifesto. The Greens f*ck everything up without even being in power. Well they're in power in Brighton & Hove and it's been one long binmen strike. Now - tell me again why UKIP (or any other fringe party) are somehow worse that all this? Any political party is *already* a coalition and with my comments above is why we need to avoid another (as in, more than one party of government) at all costs. The Libs will demand more PR, they with the Greens and SNP will destroy the nuclear industry and our National Defence. If you really want Millibean at No. 10 supported by the SNP and ShinFane (sp?) or some other revolting combination then feel free to vote UKIP. And don't tell me that the UKIP strategy is that after 5 years of this everyone will vote a UKIP govt in then believe me, there'll be nothing left. So reelecting Camoron will solve all the problems? I'm with self sufficiency and UKIP. |
#35
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OT - UKIP
"Capitol" wrote in message ... Tim Streater wrote: In article , Tim Watts wrote: Labour f*ck up the economy *every time*[1] they get in. The tories f*ck everyone over including the NHS every time. No, they fix the economy from last time. Don't ask me what Andrew Lansley was smoking, however. The Libs had their chance but sold their bumhole to the highest bidder then spent the next years lying over a barrel. What else d'ye suppose they should have done? And much as I despise the Libs, to be fair to them, your comment just illustrates that people - most people - don't appear to understand what a coalition entails. Coalition --------- Step 1. Tear up your manifesto in its entirety. Step 2. Negotiate a coalition agreement with your new partners. Step 3. Form a govt and present the agreement to the people as what this govt will do. Note that this agreement has not been voted on by the electorate (which is why coalitions are generally a bad idea, and why we should resist the notion of changing the electoral system away from FPTP). The agreement may, or may not, contain elements from your manifesto. The Greens f*ck everything up without even being in power. Well they're in power in Brighton & Hove and it's been one long binmen strike. Now - tell me again why UKIP (or any other fringe party) are somehow worse that all this? Any political party is *already* a coalition and with my comments above is why we need to avoid another (as in, more than one party of government) at all costs. The Libs will demand more PR, they with the Greens and SNP will destroy the nuclear industry and our National Defence. If you really want Millibean at No. 10 supported by the SNP and ShinFane (sp?) or some other revolting combination then feel free to vote UKIP. And don't tell me that the UKIP strategy is that after 5 years of this everyone will vote a UKIP govt in then believe me, there'll be nothing left. So reelecting Camoron will solve all the problems? No political group can solve all the problems, some are intractable, like the fact that Britain is past its best by date. I'm with self sufficiency and UKIP. But clearly you are in a very small minority on that. |
#36
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OT - UKIP
"Tim Streater" wrote in message .. . In article , Capitol wrote: And don't tell me that the UKIP strategy is that after 5 years of this everyone will vote a UKIP govt in then believe me, there'll be nothing left. So reelecting Camoron will solve all the problems? I'm with self sufficiency and UKIP. Th only way to get a referendum is to elect Cameron with a majority govt. None of the leftwing (Greens, Labour, Libs, SNP) parties will support that in a coalition. And if Cameron gets such a majority and then says that because the EU has agreed to a rebate of tuppence-ha'penny a year starting in 2050, he no longer supports a referendum, he'd be dumped as leader the same day. Oh? Like the last "cast iron guarantee"? |
#37
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OT - UKIP
Tim Streater wrote:
In article , harryagain wrote: "Tim Streater" wrote in message .. . In article , Capitol wrote: And don't tell me that the UKIP strategy is that after 5 years of this everyone will vote a UKIP govt in then believe me, there'll be nothing left. So reelecting Camoron will solve all the problems? I'm with self sufficiency and UKIP. Th only way to get a referendum is to elect Cameron with a majority govt. None of the leftwing (Greens, Labour, Libs, SNP) parties will support that in a coalition. And if Cameron gets such a majority and then says that because the EU has agreed to a rebate of tuppence-ha'penny a year starting in 2050, he no longer supports a referendum, he'd be dumped as leader the same day. Oh? Like the last "cast iron guarantee"? The party members are giving you a cast iron guarantee sunshine. What party members, most of them have left. |
#38
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OT - UKIP
Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Capitol wrote: And don't tell me that the UKIP strategy is that after 5 years of this everyone will vote a UKIP govt in then believe me, there'll be nothing left. So reelecting Camoron will solve all the problems? I'm with self sufficiency and UKIP. Th only way to get a referendum is to elect Cameron with a majority govt. None of the leftwing (Greens, Labour, Libs, SNP) parties will support that in a coalition. And if Cameron gets such a majority and then says that because the EU has agreed to a rebate of tuppence-ha'penny a year starting in 2050, he no longer supports a referendum, he'd be dumped as leader the same day. You really do believe in fairies at the bottom of the garden, don't you? Camoron will weasel out immediately if he had a majority. The only hope is UKIP and a change at Westminster. |
#39
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OT - UKIP
"Capitol" wrote in message o.uk... Tim Streater wrote: In article , Capitol wrote: And don't tell me that the UKIP strategy is that after 5 years of this everyone will vote a UKIP govt in then believe me, there'll be nothing left. So reelecting Camoron will solve all the problems? I'm with self sufficiency and UKIP. Th only way to get a referendum is to elect Cameron with a majority govt. None of the leftwing (Greens, Labour, Libs, SNP) parties will support that in a coalition. And if Cameron gets such a majority and then says that because the EU has agreed to a rebate of tuppence-ha'penny a year starting in 2050, he no longer supports a referendum, he'd be dumped as leader the same day. You really do believe in fairies at the bottom of the garden, don't you? Camoron will weasel out immediately if he had a majority. The only hope is UKIP and a change at Westminster. + my vote |
#40
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OT - UKIP
"Capitol" wrote in message o.uk... Tim Streater wrote: In article , Capitol wrote: And don't tell me that the UKIP strategy is that after 5 years of this everyone will vote a UKIP govt in then believe me, there'll be nothing left. So reelecting Camoron will solve all the problems? I'm with self sufficiency and UKIP. Th only way to get a referendum is to elect Cameron with a majority govt. None of the leftwing (Greens, Labour, Libs, SNP) parties will support that in a coalition. And if Cameron gets such a majority and then says that because the EU has agreed to a rebate of tuppence-ha'penny a year starting in 2050, he no longer supports a referendum, he'd be dumped as leader the same day. You really do believe in fairies at the bottom of the garden, don't you? Camoron will weasel out immediately if he had a majority. The only hope is UKIP and a change at Westminster. There is no chance that UKIP will ever be the govt, you watch. |
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