Something on the telly to watch.
http://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/c...rama_ukip_the/

The smear campaign continues.

On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 04:12:56 +0000, harryagain wrote:

Something on the telly to watch.
http://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/2veprh/
wildly_antiukip_channel_4_docudrama_ukip_the/

The smear campaign continues.

Good to see that you're waiting to actually watch it before condemning it.

Have you stopped to wonder why people might think that UKIP's full of
wierdos, bigots and monomaniacs?

thinks Still, at least you've found your natural home.

On 12/02/15 08:50, Adrian wrote:

Have you stopped to wonder why people might think that UKIP's full of
wierdos, bigots and monomaniacs?

I thought we were talking about UKIP? You've just described all the
parties...

On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 09:03:18 +0000, Tim Watts wrote:

Have you stopped to wonder why people might think that UKIP's full of
wierdos, bigots and monomaniacs?

I thought we were talking about UKIP? You've just described all the
parties...

True. But even more so.

On 12/02/2015 04:12, harryagain wrote:
Something on the telly to watch.
http://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/c...rama_ukip_the/

The smear campaign continues.

Channel 4 did offer Nigel Farage the chance to reply in an interview
with Jon Snow to be shown after the programme. He has declined the offer.

--
Colin Bignell

On 12/02/2015 08:50, Adrian wrote:
On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 04:12:56 +0000, harryagain wrote:

Something on the telly to watch.
http://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/2veprh/
wildly_antiukip_channel_4_docudrama_ukip_the/

The smear campaign continues.

Good to see that you're waiting to actually watch it before condemning it.

TBH, it is a docudrama on Channel 4, so the chances of it being any good
are not that high. :-) It is also obviously high in fantasy - it has an
Asian woman MP in UKIP.

http://www.ge2015.co.uk/meet-the-uki...tics/#more-204

Have you stopped to wonder why people might think that UKIP's full of
wierdos, bigots and monomaniacs?

thinks Still, at least you've found your natural home.



--
Colin Bignell

On 12/02/15 08:50, Adrian wrote:
On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 04:12:56 +0000, harryagain wrote:

Something on the telly to watch.
http://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/2veprh/
wildly_antiukip_channel_4_docudrama_ukip_the/

The smear campaign continues.

Good to see that you're waiting to actually watch it before condemning it.

Have you stopped to wonder why people might think that UKIP's full of
wierdos, bigots and monomaniacs?


No, its obvious. Because that is the narrative that has been created by
those that own fund and advertise in the MSM to discredit them prior to
the election.

Having met a great many ULKIP members candidates and MEPs it ois
glaringly obvious that they are nothing like that at all.

OTOH having also met CP MPs it is also glaringly obvious that concern
over their bank balances images and careers consistently outweighs
concern for their electorate, or the country.


thinks Still, at least you've found your natural home.



--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 09:50:08 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Have you stopped to wonder why people might think that UKIP's full of
wierdos, bigots and monomaniacs?

No, its obvious.

Yes, it is.

Having met a great many ULKIP members candidates and MEPs it ois
glaringly obvious that they are nothing like that at all.

So why on _earth_ does Farridge keep allowing so many wierdos, bigots and
monomaniacs to represent the party?

On 12/02/2015 09:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/02/15 08:50, Adrian wrote:
....
Have you stopped to wonder why people might think that UKIP's full of
wierdos, bigots and monomaniacs?


No, its obvious. Because that is the narrative that has been created by
those that own fund and advertise in the MSM to discredit them prior to
the election....

Ahhh - a conspiracy; that explains it.


--
Colin Bignell

On 12/02/15 09:55, Adrian wrote:
On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 09:50:08 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Have you stopped to wonder why people might think that UKIP's full of
wierdos, bigots and monomaniacs?

No, its obvious.

Yes, it is.

Having met a great many ULKIP members candidates and MEPs it ois
glaringly obvious that they are nothing like that at all.

So why on _earth_ does Farridge keep allowing so many wierdos, bigots and
monomaniacs to represent the party?

*Farage* doesn't. The MSM scour the media for anything they can use to
create the impression that he does.

Just about every time a rotten egg surfaces, it turns out he/she was a
(deliberate?)refugee from another political party.

Its a simply ploy. Leave CP/Labour. Join UKIP who welcome you with open
arms, wait for opportune moment to do most damage, then leave with an
unpleasant accusation that fits the narrative. And as much inside
informations as possible


Simples!

--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 10:24:01 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

So why on _earth_ does Farridge keep allowing so many wierdos, bigots
and monomaniacs to represent the party?

*Farage* doesn't.

Then he has bollock all control over the rest of his party.

The MSM scour the media for anything they can use to create the
impression that he does.

Because, of course, (to take just one example) re-appointing somebody as
first on the regional MEP candidate list years after a series of hugely
controversial views on rape, homosexuality, and almost every other
subject under the sun doesn't condone those kind of comments, at all,
does it? And then not taking any action when that self-same controversy-
on-legs is photographed leaving out of a knocking-shop, with his only
comment to the press being "Well, we all deserve a private life"?

Oh, wait. He's an ex-Tory MEP. Just wait - there'll be a wriggle coming
up in a sec...

Just about every time a rotten egg surfaces, it turns out he/she was a
(deliberate?)refugee from another political party.

Just like both MPs and the party leader, you mean?

The impression given by such a never-ending stream of wierdos, bigots and
monomaniacs being repeatedly appointed, re-appointed and tacitly approved
as candidates is of a party which either condones them or doesn't have a
lot of choice, because the choice is them or nobody. Which is it?

And, fwiw, the one UKIP Westminster candidate who I actually know is,
frankly, utterly hatstand. Most supporters are either utterly deluded or
just don't really know what UKIP are other than vaguely "It's all the
fault of Johnny Foreigner. I know, because the Daily Mail tells me so,
and they wouldn't lie to me."

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .
In article , Capitol
wrote:

And don't tell me that the UKIP strategy is that after 5 years of this
everyone will vote a UKIP govt in then believe me, there'll be nothing
left.

So reelecting Camoron will solve all the problems? I'm with self
sufficiency and UKIP.

Th only way to get a referendum is to elect Cameron with a majority
govt. None of the leftwing (Greens, Labour, Libs, SNP) parties will
support that in a coalition.

And if Cameron gets such a majority and then says that because the EU
has agreed to a rebate of tuppence-ha'penny a year starting in 2050, he
no longer supports a referendum, he'd be dumped as leader the same day.


Oh? Like the last "cast iron guarantee"?

On 12/02/2015 10:24, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/02/15 09:55, Adrian wrote:
On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 09:50:08 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Have you stopped to wonder why people might think that UKIP's full of
wierdos, bigots and monomaniacs?

No, its obvious.

Yes, it is.

Having met a great many ULKIP members candidates and MEPs it ois
glaringly obvious that they are nothing like that at all.

So why on _earth_ does Farridge keep allowing so many wierdos, bigots and
monomaniacs to represent the party?

*Farage* doesn't.

For some reason, I always think his name is Falange.

The MSM scour the media for anything they can use to
create the impression that he does.

They don't seem to need to dig very deeply.

Just about every time a rotten egg surfaces, it turns out he/she was a
(deliberate?)refugee from another political party.

As only 15% of UKIP candidates are new to politics, it is hardly
surprising that there are many who have transferred their allegiance
from another party.

Its a simply ploy. Leave CP/Labour. Join UKIP who welcome you with open
arms, wait for opportune moment to do most damage, then leave with an
unpleasant accusation that fits the narrative. And as much inside
informations as possible

Alternatively, they simply are the sort of people who are naturally
attracted to UKIP.


--
Colin Bignell

On 12/02/15 09:14, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 12/02/2015 04:12, harryagain wrote:
Something on the telly to watch.
http://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/c...rama_ukip_the/


The smear campaign continues.

Channel 4 did offer Nigel Farage the chance to reply in an interview
with Jon Snow to be shown after the programme. He has declined the offer.


NOT addressed to you Colin - but a general muttering...



Labour f*ck up the economy *every time*[1] they get in.

The tories f*ck everyone over including the NHS every time.

The Libs had their chance but sold their bumhole to the highest bidder
then spent the next years lying over a barrel.

The Greens f*ck everything up without even being in power.

Now - tell me again why UKIP (or any other fringe party) are somehow
worse that all this?


[1] This time was special - they might have had the choice not to get
involved in the vanity wars and save a fortune, but they might still
have been caught out by the bank crisis.

On 12/02/2015 10:24 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/02/15 09:55, Adrian wrote:
On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 09:50:08 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Have you stopped to wonder why people might think that UKIP's full of
wierdos, bigots and monomaniacs?

No, its obvious.

Yes, it is.

Having met a great many ULKIP members candidates and MEPs it ois
glaringly obvious that they are nothing like that at all.

So why on _earth_ does Farridge keep allowing so many wierdos, bigots and
monomaniacs to represent the party?

*Farage* doesn't. The MSM scour the media for anything they can use to
create the impression that he does.

Just about every time a rotten egg surfaces, it turns out he/she was a
(deliberate?)refugee from another political party.

Its a simply ploy. Leave CP/Labour. Join UKIP who welcome you with open
arms, wait for opportune moment to do most damage, then leave with an
unpleasant accusation that fits the narrative. And as much inside
informations as possible


Simples!


I amazes me that people find it so difficult to see that that is
happening. The other parties are running scared of UKIP, and I can't
ever recall them spending so much time trying every dirty trick in the
book to blacken another party's name. However, the election will speak
for itself, as indeed the recent by-elections already have - and a lot
of people will have to eat their words. I just hope the result will give
UKIP enough power to insist on an immediate referendum to get us out of
Europe (as indeed it surely would), and to remove the other politicians'
noses out of that particularly corrupt trough.

Strangely enough, the press and TV don't seem to be spending much time
discussing why both Cameron and Milligram are working so hard to stay in
an organisation whose auditors have refused to sign off the books for
fourteen years on the trot.

--
Bob
Tetbury, Gloucestershire, England

I can't see the point in the theatre. All that sex and violence. I get
enough of that at home. Apart from the sex, of course. - Baldrick -
Sense and Senility

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Its a simply ploy. Leave CP/Labour. Join UKIP who welcome you with open
arms, wait for opportune moment to do most damage, then leave with an
unpleasant accusation that fits the narrative. And as much inside
informations as possible

That could be written on the back of a fag packet.

--
*Why were the Indians here first? They had reservations.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 12/02/15 11:11, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Its a simply ploy. Leave CP/Labour. Join UKIP who welcome you with open
arms, wait for opportune moment to do most damage, then leave with an
unpleasant accusation that fits the narrative. And as much inside
informations as possible

That could be written on the back of a fag packet.

Can you write though?


--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

On 12/02/2015 10:53, Tim Watts wrote:
On 12/02/15 09:14, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 12/02/2015 04:12, harryagain wrote:
Something on the telly to watch.
http://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/c...rama_ukip_the/



The smear campaign continues.

Channel 4 did offer Nigel Farage the chance to reply in an interview
with Jon Snow to be shown after the programme. He has declined the offer.


NOT addressed to you Colin - but a general muttering...



Labour f*ck up the economy *every time*[1] they get in.

The tories f*ck everyone over including the NHS every time.

The Libs had their chance but sold their bumhole to the highest bidder
then spent the next years lying over a barrel.

The Greens f*ck everything up without even being in power.

Now - tell me again why UKIP (or any other fringe party) are somehow
worse that all this?...

They want to take us out of the EU for a start. They also don't seem to
have any polices, other than opposition to immigration and the EU. That
is not enough of a basis to run a country. However, it is not whether
they are any worse, but why should anybody support them over one of the
mainstream parties unless they were significantly better?



--
Colin Bignell

On 12/02/15 14:46, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 12/02/2015 10:53, Tim Watts wrote:
On 12/02/15 09:14, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 12/02/2015 04:12, harryagain wrote:
Something on the telly to watch.
http://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/c...rama_ukip_the/




The smear campaign continues.

Channel 4 did offer Nigel Farage the chance to reply in an interview
with Jon Snow to be shown after the programme. He has declined the
offer.


NOT addressed to you Colin - but a general muttering...



Labour f*ck up the economy *every time*[1] they get in.

The tories f*ck everyone over including the NHS every time.

The Libs had their chance but sold their bumhole to the highest bidder
then spent the next years lying over a barrel.

The Greens f*ck everything up without even being in power.

Now - tell me again why UKIP (or any other fringe party) are somehow
worse that all this?...

They want to take us out of the EU for a start. They also don't seem to
have any polices, other than opposition to immigration and the EU.

First of all, they have more policies than any other party. So I am not
sure where you get the idea that they have no policies, unless you read
the Guardian


Secondly, name me one political party in the last 20 years that has
implemented the policies for which it got elected.

Thirdly, what dont you understand about libertarianism? It is a
philosophy that doesn't go for ideological pre-empting of future events:
It is a philosophy that preaches a small government adapting to
situations with pragmatic policies as the need arises, but not before.

UKIP should have as few policies as possible, and restrict itself to the
main thrust: To get rid of EU overlordship and restore power to national
government, and then to tackle serious issues on a rational basis as
they arise. And that's ALL the policy they need.


UKIP should not have a policy on everything. In fact it should have
almost no policy on anything. That's not a weakness, that's a strength.


That
is not enough of a basis to run a country. However, it is not whether
they are any worse, but why should anybody support them over one of the
mainstream parties unless they were significantly better?





--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

On 12/02/2015 15:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/02/15 14:46, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 12/02/2015 10:53, Tim Watts wrote:
On 12/02/15 09:14, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 12/02/2015 04:12, harryagain wrote:
Something on the telly to watch.
http://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/c...rama_ukip_the/





The smear campaign continues.

Channel 4 did offer Nigel Farage the chance to reply in an interview
with Jon Snow to be shown after the programme. He has declined the
offer.


NOT addressed to you Colin - but a general muttering...



Labour f*ck up the economy *every time*[1] they get in.

The tories f*ck everyone over including the NHS every time.

The Libs had their chance but sold their bumhole to the highest bidder
then spent the next years lying over a barrel.

The Greens f*ck everything up without even being in power.

Now - tell me again why UKIP (or any other fringe party) are somehow
worse that all this?...

They want to take us out of the EU for a start. They also don't seem to
have any polices, other than opposition to immigration and the EU.

First of all, they have more policies than any other party. So I am not
sure where you get the idea that they have no policies, unless you read
the Guardian

Few that don't effectively come down to leave the EU and stop immigration.

Secondly, name me one political party in the last 20 years that has
implemented the policies for which it got elected.

According to a BBC analysis in 2002, the Labour Party achieved nearly
80% of its 1997 election promises.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/1961522.stm

This, somewhat less independent, analysis claims a number of current
successes for the Conservatives

http://www.jeremylefroy.org.uk/conse...dges-delivered

I can only think of scrapping ID cards and getting the first £10,000 of
everybody's income tax free as successes for the LibDems, but they had
rather less scope for implementing their policies.

Thirdly, what dont you understand about libertarianism? It is a
philosophy that doesn't go for ideological pre-empting of future events:
It is a philosophy that preaches a small government adapting to
situations with pragmatic policies as the need arises, but not before.

IOW, lets not tell people what to expect us to do, as it will leave us
with a free hand to do things they probably wouldn't want us to do if
they knew in advance what we planned.

UKIP should have as few policies as possible, and restrict itself to the
main thrust: To get rid of EU overlordship and restore power to national
government, and then to tackle serious issues on a rational basis as
they arise. And that's ALL the policy they need.

They need a policy to deal with the ruined economy that would result
from an exit from the EU.

UKIP should not have a policy on everything. In fact it should have
almost no policy on anything. That's not a weakness, that's a strength.

You can't really believe that can you?

That
is not enough of a basis to run a country. However, it is not whether
they are any worse, but why should anybody support them over one of the
mainstream parties unless they were significantly better?



--
Colin Bignell

"Bob Henson" wrote in message
...
On 12/02/2015 10:24 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/02/15 09:55, Adrian wrote:
On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 09:50:08 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Have you stopped to wonder why people might think that UKIP's full of
wierdos, bigots and monomaniacs?

No, its obvious.

Yes, it is.

Having met a great many ULKIP members candidates and MEPs it ois
glaringly obvious that they are nothing like that at all.

So why on _earth_ does Farridge keep allowing so many wierdos, bigots
and
monomaniacs to represent the party?

*Farage* doesn't. The MSM scour the media for anything they can use to
create the impression that he does.

Just about every time a rotten egg surfaces, it turns out he/she was a
(deliberate?)refugee from another political party.

Its a simply ploy. Leave CP/Labour. Join UKIP who welcome you with open
arms, wait for opportune moment to do most damage, then leave with an
unpleasant accusation that fits the narrative. And as much inside
informations as possible


Simples!


I amazes me that people find it so difficult to see that that is
happening. The other parties are running scared of UKIP, and I can't
ever recall them spending so much time trying every dirty trick in the
book to blacken another party's name. However, the election will speak
for itself, as indeed the recent by-elections already have - and a lot
of people will have to eat their words. I just hope the result will give
UKIP enough power to insist on an immediate referendum to get us out of
Europe (as indeed it surely would), and to remove the other politicians'
noses out of that particularly corrupt trough.

Strangely enough, the press and TV don't seem to be spending much time
discussing why both Cameron and Milligram are working so hard to stay in
an organisation whose auditors have refused to sign off the books for
fourteen years on the trot.

+ my vote

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
They want to take us out of the EU for a start. They also don't seem to
have any polices, other than opposition to immigration and the EU.

First of all, they have more policies than any other party. So I am not
sure where you get the idea that they have no policies, unless you read
the Guardian


Secondly, name me one political party in the last 20 years that has
implemented the policies for which it got elected.

Thirdly, what dont you understand about libertarianism? It is a
philosophy that doesn't go for ideological pre-empting of future events:
It is a philosophy that preaches a small government adapting to
situations with pragmatic policies as the need arises, but not before.

UKIP should have as few policies as possible,

Given you've stated 'they have more policies than any other party' I take
it you think them a total waste of space, then?


and restrict itself to the
main thrust: To get rid of EU overlordship and restore power to national
government, and then to tackle serious issues on a rational basis as
they arise. And that's ALL the policy they need.

And not long after a third world war. Assuming there enough who think like
you round Europe. That is the logical outcome of 'my country above all
others'.

You don't need to look afar to see it these days.

--
*Marriage changes passion - suddenly you're in bed with a relative*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 12/02/15 14:46, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 12/02/2015 10:53, Tim Watts wrote:

Now - tell me again why UKIP (or any other fringe party) are somehow
worse that all this?...

They want to take us out of the EU for a start.

They probably should - we are getting hamstrung in way too many central
dictacts.

In article ,
"harryagain" wrote:

Something on the telly to watch.
http://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/c...ip_channel_4_d
ocudrama_ukip_the/

The smear campaign continues.

The other day Farage was prevented from coming outside the UKIP office
in Rotherham by a "furious crowd"
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...kips-rotherham
-5115976

"Ay-ay," I thought: "next stop: Brown Shirts to ensure security for the
Party Leader."

J.

On 12/02/2015 15:58, Tim Watts wrote:
On 12/02/15 14:46, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 12/02/2015 10:53, Tim Watts wrote:

Now - tell me again why UKIP (or any other fringe party) are somehow
worse that all this?...

They want to take us out of the EU for a start.

They probably should - we are getting hamstrung in way too many central
dictacts.

I thought we joined the EU for the common market, not the dictatorship
that the EU has developed into.
THAT's what a *lot* of people are miffed about.
The EU has been a dripping tap, slowly but surely getting more and more
powers over us.

In article ,
Bod wrote:
I thought we joined the EU for the common market, not the dictatorship
that the EU has developed into.
THAT's what a *lot* of people are miffed about.
The EU has been a dripping tap, slowly but surely getting more and more
powers over us.

If you think about it, a common market also requires lots of other things
being equalised, if it is to have any chance of working.

--
*Virtual reality is its own reward*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 12/02/2015 15:58, Tim Watts wrote:
On 12/02/15 14:46, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 12/02/2015 10:53, Tim Watts wrote:

Now - tell me again why UKIP (or any other fringe party) are somehow
worse that all this?...

They want to take us out of the EU for a start.

They probably should - we are getting hamstrung in way too many central
dictacts.


Despite UKIP's wild claims, the amount of UK legislation originating in
the EU is anything from 15% to 50%, depending upon how you define your
criteria. In practice, a high proportion of that legislation would have
been passed into UK law in similar form even if it had not been EU
legislation and some, such as regulations about tobacco and olive
growing, have little or no effect in the UK.

--
Colin Bignell

Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Tim Watts
wrote:

Labour f*ck up the economy *every time*[1] they get in.

The tories f*ck everyone over including the NHS every time.

No, they fix the economy from last time. Don't ask me what Andrew
Lansley was smoking, however.

The Libs had their chance but sold their bumhole to the highest bidder
then spent the next years lying over a barrel.

What else d'ye suppose they should have done? And much as I despise the
Libs, to be fair to them, your comment just illustrates that people -
most people - don't appear to understand what a coalition entails.
Coalition
---------

Step 1. Tear up your manifesto in its entirety.
Step 2. Negotiate a coalition agreement with your new partners.
Step 3. Form a govt and present the agreement to the people as
what this govt will do.

Note that this agreement has not been voted on by the electorate (which
is why coalitions are generally a bad idea, and why we should resist
the notion of changing the electoral system away from FPTP). The
agreement may, or may not, contain elements from your manifesto.

The Greens f*ck everything up without even being in power.

Well they're in power in Brighton & Hove and it's been one long binmen
strike.

Now - tell me again why UKIP (or any other fringe party) are somehow
worse that all this?

Any political party is *already* a coalition and with my comments above
is why we need to avoid another (as in, more than one party of
government) at all costs. The Libs will demand more PR, they with the
Greens and SNP will destroy the nuclear industry and our National
Defence. If you really want Millibean at No. 10 supported by the SNP
and ShinFane (sp?) or some other revolting combination then feel free
to vote UKIP.

And don't tell me that the UKIP strategy is that after 5 years of this
everyone will vote a UKIP govt in then believe me, there'll be nothing
left.


So reelecting Camoron will solve all the problems? I'm with self
sufficiency and UKIP.

Nightjar cpb@ wrote:
On 12/02/2015 15:58, Tim Watts wrote:
On 12/02/15 14:46, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 12/02/2015 10:53, Tim Watts wrote:

Now - tell me again why UKIP (or any other fringe party) are somehow
worse that all this?...

They want to take us out of the EU for a start.

They probably should - we are getting hamstrung in way too many central
dictacts.


Despite UKIP's wild claims, the amount of UK legislation originating in
the EU is anything from 15% to 50%, depending upon how you define your
criteria. In practice, a high proportion of that legislation would have
been passed into UK law in similar form even if it had not been EU
legislation and some, such as regulations about tobacco and olive
growing, have little or no effect in the UK.


So 50% of legislation coming from an unelected source not having your
best interests at heart is a good thing?

On 12/02/2015 16:51, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 12/02/2015 15:58, Tim Watts wrote:
On 12/02/15 14:46, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 12/02/2015 10:53, Tim Watts wrote:

Now - tell me again why UKIP (or any other fringe party) are somehow
worse that all this?...

They want to take us out of the EU for a start.

They probably should - we are getting hamstrung in way too many central
dictacts.


Despite UKIP's wild claims, the amount of UK legislation originating in
the EU is anything from 15% to 50%, depending upon how you define your
criteria. In practice, a high proportion of that legislation would have
been passed into UK law in similar form even if it had not been EU
legislation and some, such as regulations about tobacco and olive
growing, have little or no effect in the UK.

Really!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ry-claims.html

On 12/02/2015 16:57, Capitol wrote:
Nightjar cpb@ wrote:
On 12/02/2015 15:58, Tim Watts wrote:
On 12/02/15 14:46, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 12/02/2015 10:53, Tim Watts wrote:

Now - tell me again why UKIP (or any other fringe party) are somehow
worse that all this?...

They want to take us out of the EU for a start.

They probably should - we are getting hamstrung in way too many central
dictacts.


Despite UKIP's wild claims, the amount of UK legislation originating in
the EU is anything from 15% to 50%, depending upon how you define your
criteria. In practice, a high proportion of that legislation would have
been passed into UK law in similar form even if it had not been EU
legislation and some, such as regulations about tobacco and olive
growing, have little or no effect in the UK.


So 50% of legislation coming from an unelected source not having
your best interests at heart is a good thing?

Perhaps you failed to read and understand my last sentence properly.

--
Colin Bignell

On 12/02/2015 16:31, Bod wrote:
On 12/02/2015 15:58, Tim Watts wrote:
On 12/02/15 14:46, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 12/02/2015 10:53, Tim Watts wrote:

Now - tell me again why UKIP (or any other fringe party) are somehow
worse that all this?...

They want to take us out of the EU for a start.

They probably should - we are getting hamstrung in way too many central
dictacts.

I thought we joined the EU for the common market, not the dictatorship
that the EU has developed into.
THAT's what a *lot* of people are miffed about.
The EU has been a dripping tap, slowly but surely getting more and more
powers over us.

Much of that power comes from the Single Europe Act, which was very
strongly promoted by the British Government, so we were quite
instrumental in the EU becoming what it is today.

--
Colin Bignell

On 12/02/2015 16:48, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Tim Watts
wrote:
....
The Greens f*ck everything up without even being in power.

Well they're in power in Brighton & Hove and it's been one long binmen
strike.
....

They did have to abandon Meat Free Monday though. The Council workers
didn't want to give up their bacon sarnies.


--
Colin Bignell

On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 10:54:32 +0000, Bob Henson wrote:

I just hope the result will give UKIP enough power to insist on an
immediate referendum to get us out of Europe (as indeed it surely would)

Umm, there's only one party who've said they'll have a referendum. And it
ain't UKIP.

Personally, I hope we _do_ have a referendum asap. But, then, I have
faith that sanity will prevail and we'll stay in the EU. Perhaps, then,
we can actually spend some time focussing on important stuff instead of
having this ******** waste so much time. But I don't hold my breath.

On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 14:46:16 +0000, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:

They also don't seem to have any polices, other than opposition to
immigration and the EU.

I guess we'll see, when an actual real national party manifesto gets
published. It can't be dafter or thinner on reality than the last one,
which even Nigel dismisses as "drivel", despite having signed the intro.

On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 16:57:44 +0000, Capitol wrote:

So 50% of legislation coming from an unelected source

s'funny. I seem to recall voting for the European Elections not that long
ago.

not having your best interests at heart is a good thing?

Well, p'raps if a sizable proportion of UK MEPs actually rocked up and
pulled their weight, instead of taking the ****, skiving all the time,
and voting against everything regardless of merit?

On 12/02/15 15:46, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 12/02/2015 15:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/02/15 14:46, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 12/02/2015 10:53, Tim Watts wrote:
On 12/02/15 09:14, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 12/02/2015 04:12, harryagain wrote:
Something on the telly to watch.
http://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/c...rama_ukip_the/






The smear campaign continues.

Channel 4 did offer Nigel Farage the chance to reply in an interview
with Jon Snow to be shown after the programme. He has declined the
offer.


NOT addressed to you Colin - but a general muttering...



Labour f*ck up the economy *every time*[1] they get in.

The tories f*ck everyone over including the NHS every time.

The Libs had their chance but sold their bumhole to the highest bidder
then spent the next years lying over a barrel.

The Greens f*ck everything up without even being in power.

Now - tell me again why UKIP (or any other fringe party) are somehow
worse that all this?...

They want to take us out of the EU for a start. They also don't seem to
have any polices, other than opposition to immigration and the EU.

First of all, they have more policies than any other party. So I am not
sure where you get the idea that they have no policies, unless you read
the Guardian

Few that don't effectively come down to leave the EU and stop immigration.

Secondly, name me one political party in the last 20 years that has
implemented the policies for which it got elected.

According to a BBC analysis in 2002, the Labour Party achieved nearly
80% of its 1997 election promises.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/1961522.stm

This, somewhat less independent, analysis claims a number of current
successes for the Conservatives

http://www.jeremylefroy.org.uk/conse...dges-delivered


I can only think of scrapping ID cards and getting the first £10,000 of
everybody's income tax free as successes for the LibDems, but they had
rather less scope for implementing their policies.

Thirdly, what dont you understand about libertarianism? It is a
philosophy that doesn't go for ideological pre-empting of future events:
It is a philosophy that preaches a small government adapting to
situations with pragmatic policies as the need arises, but not before.

IOW, lets not tell people what to expect us to do, as it will leave us
with a free hand to do things they probably wouldn't want us to do if
they knew in advance what we planned.

UKIP should have as few policies as possible, and restrict itself to the
main thrust: To get rid of EU overlordship and restore power to national
government, and then to tackle serious issues on a rational basis as
they arise. And that's ALL the policy they need.

They need a policy to deal with the ruined economy that would result
from an exit from the EU.


but the whole point of leaving the EU is to repair tyhe already ruined
economy.

I have been around since 1950. I have never seen people ion general more
depressed and miserable than the last 5 years.

I visited Czechoslovakia a year after the wall came down. Britain today
resembles it. Except there is no hope left in Britain.



UKIP should not have a policy on everything. In fact it should have
almost no policy on anything. That's not a weakness, that's a strength.

You can't really believe that can you?

Absolutely6. No policy ion fo9xshubtning, gay marriage, plain wrappings
on cigarettes sod all that.

We have a few very urgent problems.

We are flat broke,. we are being invaded by LEGAL immigrants, and we
have no power to stop anything or change anything because the EU sets
the rules.

That
is not enough of a basis to run a country. However, it is not whether
they are any worse, but why should anybody support them over one of the
mainstream parties unless they were significantly better?


I think no government at all especially no EU government would be
better than what we have.





--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

On 12/02/15 15:54, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
They want to take us out of the EU for a start. They also don't seem to
have any polices, other than opposition to immigration and the EU.

First of all, they have more policies than any other party. So I am not
sure where you get the idea that they have no policies, unless you read
the Guardian


Secondly, name me one political party in the last 20 years that has
implemented the policies for which it got elected.

Thirdly, what dont you understand about libertarianism? It is a
philosophy that doesn't go for ideological pre-empting of future events:
It is a philosophy that preaches a small government adapting to
situations with pragmatic policies as the need arises, but not before.

UKIP should have as few policies as possible,

Given you've stated 'they have more policies than any other party' I take
it you think them a total waste of space, then?


Nope.

As usually your lefty stupidity cannot understanbd that 'as few policies
as possible' = ' quite a few policies an#bout important things'



and restrict itself to the
main thrust: To get rid of EU overlordship and restore power to national
government, and then to tackle serious issues on a rational basis as
they arise. And that's ALL the policy they need.

And not long after a third world war. Assuming there enough who think like
you round Europe. That is the logical outcome of 'my country above all
others'.

As usual you are projecting your bigotry into other people



You don't need to look afar to see it these days.



--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

On 12/02/15 16:48, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Bod wrote:
I thought we joined the EU for the common market, not the dictatorship
that the EU has developed into.
THAT's what a *lot* of people are miffed about.
The EU has been a dripping tap, slowly but surely getting more and more
powers over us.

If you think about it, a common market also requires lots of other things
being equalised, if it is to have any chance of working.

No it doesn't.

All it requires is that people somehow trade.


--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

In article ,
Capitol wrote:
Despite UKIP's wild claims, the amount of UK legislation originating in
the EU is anything from 15% to 50%, depending upon how you define your
criteria. In practice, a high proportion of that legislation would have
been passed into UK law in similar form even if it had not been EU
legislation and some, such as regulations about tobacco and olive
growing, have little or no effect in the UK.


So 50% of legislation coming from an unelected source not having your
best interests at heart is a good thing?

Then who's interests do they have at heart?

--
*Cleaned by Stevie Wonder, checked by David Blunkett*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.