On 17/02/2015 15:33, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/02/15 14:00, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 17/02/2015 09:49, Rod Speed wrote:


"Nightjar.me.uk" "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote in message
...
...
So why aren't we making those exports now?

Because the EU system stops that or makes it less
convenient than with your competitors like the US....

The correct answer is that Britain has long failed to exploit emerging
overseas markets and was being criticised for that failure well before
the recession.


It is not up to Britain to negotiate trade deals with the rest of the
world. That is what the EU does.

That is wrong its up to the UK to negotiated export deals.
The EU has some say on import deals.


Including onward shipments through EU ports, Britain does more trade
outside the EU than in it.

On 17/02/2015 15:33, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/02/15 14:00, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 17/02/2015 09:49, Rod Speed wrote:


"Nightjar.me.uk" "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote in message
...
...
So why aren't we making those exports now?

Because the EU system stops that or makes it less
convenient than with your competitors like the US....

The correct answer is that Britain has long failed to exploit emerging
overseas markets and was being criticised for that failure well before
the recession.


It is not up to Britain to negotiate trade deals with the rest of the
world. That is what the EU does...

Germany is in the EU, but it exports twice the percentage of its total
exports and over five times the value to China, as compared to the UK.
It exports nearly as much to Brazil as we do to China.

There is nothing to stop British companies from exporting to anywhere in
the world. However, many prefer to deal with the EU as they only have to
make a single product to a single standard to sell into 28 countries,
instead of having to meet the product standards of each individual
country they sell to. Germany chose to diversify and reaped the benefit
of that when the recession hit.


--
Colin Bignell

In message , Adrian
writes
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 10:22:43 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I rather suspect you're conflating the Gov'ts income/expenditure with
the country's income/expenditure.

Until we achieve full Eurocommunist integration, they are not the same
thing.

I'll add "conflate" to the long list of words and concepts you don't
understand, shall I?

No.

Read again carefully.

shrug Fine. So you were pointing out that two different things were
different, in reply to a post suggesting somebody might have confused
them.
You seem very ready to jump to the conclusion that other people don't
understand something rather than accept that you are wrong.
--
bert

Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Capitol wrote
Dave Plowman (News) wrote

Which is what happens with a settlement. ;-)

I prefer the Reagan solution.

Getting shot?

Getting sacked.

Dennis@home wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote
Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote
Capitol wrote
Nightjar cpb@ wrote

That is assuming that we stay in the EU and don't convert an economy
currently growing at 2.6% to one that is shrinks by about 2.25%.

I think you have that assumption back to front.

What ever you may want to think, 2.25% is the projected permanent loss
we would suffer, according to the National Institute of Economic and
Social Research, largely due to the loss of foreign direct investment.

I wonder who funds the National Institute of Economic and Social
Research...

...and how they missed the extra exports we would make to the rest of the
world.

If there are extra exports what's stopping us doing it now?

The stupid EU regulations on VAT collection, particularly
with intangible exports rather than with physical goods.

Some exporters can't be bothered farting around complying.

Is this just another one of UKIPs empty promises?

Nope, its a statement of fact, that SOME exports
would be easier if Britain was not in the EU.

Not that its going to be enough to matter to even to
compensate for the reduction in exports to the EU countrys.

Maybe you mean selling arms to terrorists or something like that?

Nope. Britain already does that.

Nightjar.me.uk" "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Nightjar.me.uk" "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote

So why aren't we making those exports now?

Because the EU system stops that or makes it less
convenient than with your competitors like the US....

The correct answer

Mine is the correct answer.

is that Britain has long failed to exploit emerging overseas markets and
was being criticised for that failure well before the recession.

Separate issue entirely to those who dont bother with
exports because the stupid EU system makes it too much
trouble and that would be gone if Britain left the EU.

Yes, its likely to be considerably less value than the
exports to EU countrys that Britain would lose if it
left the EU, particularly with stuff like cars etc, but
that wasnt the question I chose to answer.

"Adrian" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 15:33:48 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

So why aren't we making those exports now?

Because the EU system stops that or makes it less convenient than
with your competitors like the US....

The correct answer is that Britain has long failed to exploit emerging
overseas markets and was being criticised for that failure well before
the recession.

It is not up to Britain to negotiate trade deals with the rest of the
world. That is what the EU does.

And the exact same trade deals apply to the UK - which is apparently
failing to export - as to Germany - which is exporting hand-over-fist.

That isn't because of trade deals, it's because the collapse in the euro
has made German cars very attractively priced outside the eurozone.

So I guess it can't be those, then.

"Dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 17/02/2015 15:33, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/02/15 14:00, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 17/02/2015 09:49, Rod Speed wrote:


"Nightjar.me.uk" "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote in message
...
...
So why aren't we making those exports now?

Because the EU system stops that or makes it less
convenient than with your competitors like the US....

The correct answer is that Britain has long failed to exploit emerging
overseas markets and was being criticised for that failure well before
the recession.


It is not up to Britain to negotiate trade deals with the rest of the
world. That is what the EU does.

That is wrong

Nope.

its up to the UK to negotiated export deals.

But not free trade agreements etc, those have to
be done by the EU, not the individual countrys.

The EU has some say on import deals.

And on free trade agreements too.

Including onward shipments through EU ports, Britain does more trade
outside the EU than in it.

Nightjar.me.uk" "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote
Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Nightjar.me.uk" "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote

So why aren't we making those exports now?

Because the EU system stops that or makes it less
convenient than with your competitors like the US....

The correct answer is that Britain has long failed to exploit emerging
overseas markets and was being criticised for that failure well before
the recession.

It is not up to Britain to negotiate trade deals with the rest of the
world. That is what the EU does...

Germany is in the EU, but it exports twice the percentage of its total
exports and over five times the value to China, as compared to the UK.

That's because the slump in the value of the euro has made
what they export very attractive to buyers outside the eurozone.

It exports nearly as much to Brazil as we do to China.

Because the slump in the value of the euro has made what
they export very attractive to buyers outside the eurozone.

Britain hasn't got that result because it isn't in the eurozone.

There is nothing to stop British companies from exporting to anywhere in
the world.

Yes, but because they aren't in the eurozone, Britain
doesnt get to benefit from the slump in the euro.

However, many prefer to deal with the EU as they only have to make a
single product to a single standard to sell into 28 countries,

That's not right, most obviously with the mains plug alone.

instead of having to meet the product standards of each individual country
they sell to. Germany chose to diversify and reaped the benefit of that
when the recession hit.

They actually reaped the benefit of the slump in the euro.

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 07:06:29 +1100, john james wrote:

So why aren't we making those exports now?

Because the EU system stops that or makes it less convenient than
with your competitors like the US....

The correct answer is that Britain has long failed to exploit
emerging overseas markets and was being criticised for that failure
well before the recession.

It is not up to Britain to negotiate trade deals with the rest of the
world. That is what the EU does.

And the exact same trade deals apply to the UK - which is apparently
failing to export - as to Germany - which is exporting hand-over-fist.

That isn't because of trade deals, it's because the collapse in the euro
has made German cars very attractively priced outside the eurozone.

Not just the motor industry, and not just recently.

"Adrian" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 07:06:29 +1100, john james wrote:

So why aren't we making those exports now?

Because the EU system stops that or makes it less convenient than
with your competitors like the US....

The correct answer is that Britain has long failed to exploit
emerging overseas markets and was being criticised for that failure
well before the recession.

It is not up to Britain to negotiate trade deals with the rest of the
world. That is what the EU does.

And the exact same trade deals apply to the UK - which is apparently
failing to export - as to Germany - which is exporting hand-over-fist.

That isn't because of trade deals, it's because the collapse in the euro
has made German cars very attractively priced outside the eurozone.

Not just the motor industry,

True, but that does dominate the recent export success.

and not just recently.

For different reasons, much better designs and decent quality control.

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 08:01:18 +1100, john james wrote:

It is not up to Britain to negotiate trade deals with the rest of
the world. That is what the EU does.

And the exact same trade deals apply to the UK - which is apparently
failing to export - as to Germany - which is exporting
hand-over-fist.

That isn't because of trade deals, it's because the collapse in the
euro has made German cars very attractively priced outside the
eurozone.

Not just the motor industry,

True, but that does dominate the recent export success.

Not really. There are a lot of industries which Germany does very well in.
Road vehicles are 18% of German exports by value, US$250bn in 2013. And,
yes, that's ten times the UK's vehicle exports - not to mention that UK
vehicle manufacturing is mainly foreign-owned plants, and so liable to
move to wherever international trading conditions best suit, rather than
UK-owned.

and not just recently.

For different reasons, much better designs and decent quality control.

So, back to the original assertion that it's all the EU's fault that the
UK can't export, and as soon as we leave, we will...?

On 17/02/2015 21:17, Adrian wrote:

Not really. There are a lot of industries which Germany does very well in.
Road vehicles are 18% of German exports by value, US$250bn in 2013. And,
yes, that's ten times the UK's vehicle exports - not to mention that UK
vehicle manufacturing is mainly foreign-owned plants, and so liable to
move to wherever international trading conditions best suit, rather than
UK-owned.

You mean Spain if the UK pulls out of Europe?

"Adrian" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 08:01:18 +1100, john james wrote:

It is not up to Britain to negotiate trade deals with the rest of
the world. That is what the EU does.

And the exact same trade deals apply to the UK - which is apparently
failing to export - as to Germany - which is exporting
hand-over-fist.

That isn't because of trade deals, it's because the collapse in the
euro has made German cars very attractively priced outside the
eurozone.

Not just the motor industry,

True, but that does dominate the recent export success.

Not really.

Fraid so, particularly with the exports out of the eurozone
that have benefitted from the slump in the value of the euro.

There are a lot of industries which Germany does very well in.
Road vehicles are 18% of German exports by value, US$250bn in 2013.

What matters with regard to what is being discussed
is exports outside the eurozone, not exports in general.

And, yes, that's ten times the UK's vehicle exports - not to mention
that UK vehicle manufacturing is mainly foreign-owned plants, and
so liable to move to wherever international trading conditions best
suit, rather than UK-owned.

and not just recently.

For different reasons, much better designs and decent quality control.

So, back to the original assertion that it's all the EU's fault that the
UK can't export, and as soon as we leave, we will...?

I didn't commented on that, just pointed out that some
exports, particularly by small exporters, would be easier
if Britain was outside the EU because then the exporters
would not have to bother with the EU requirements on
charging the VAT due in the country it is exported to
with intangible stuff as opposed to tangible goods.

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 08:57:42 +1100, john james wrote:

There are a lot of industries which Germany does very well in.
Road vehicles are 18% of German exports by value, US$250bn in 2013.

What matters with regard to what is being discussed is exports outside
the eurozone, not exports in general.

I didn't commented on that, just pointed out that some exports,
particularly by small exporters, would be easier if Britain was outside
the EU because then the exporters would not have to bother with the EU
requirements on charging the VAT due in the country it is exported to
with intangible stuff as opposed to tangible goods.

Exporting to countries within the EU, the only time the situation you
describe would come into play, would be far _more_ complicated, not less.

Unless, of course, the UK were to remain within the EU free trade or VAT
areas after leaving the EU itself, in which case the _exact_ same
situation as currently would still apply, except we'd have no say at all
in future trade negotiations.

All of EEA and EFTA members except for Svalbard are EU Free Trade
members, btw, but none are VAT members currently, although several non-EEA
and EFTA overseas territories of EU countries are.

On 17/02/2015 21:57, john james wrote:

I didn't commented on that, just pointed out that some
exports, particularly by small exporters, would be easier
if Britain was outside the EU because then the exporters
would not have to bother with the EU requirements on
charging the VAT due in the country it is exported to
with intangible stuff as opposed to tangible goods.

What VAT, its only the EU that charges VAT not the rest of the world.
Exports to the EU would be rather harder if we were not in the EU as
they try to block imports for stuff already made in the EU.

On 17/02/2015 20:39, Rod Speed wrote:
Nightjar.me.uk" "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote
Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Nightjar.me.uk" "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote

So why aren't we making those exports now?

Because the EU system stops that or makes it less
convenient than with your competitors like the US....

The correct answer is that Britain has long failed to exploit
emerging overseas markets and was being criticised for that failure
well before the recession.

It is not up to Britain to negotiate trade deals with the rest of the
world. That is what the EU does...

Germany is in the EU, but it exports twice the percentage of its total
exports and over five times the value to China, as compared to the UK.

That's because the slump in the value of the euro has made
what they export very attractive to buyers outside the eurozone....

They were doing it when the Euro was strong.


--
Colin Bignell

Adrian wrote:
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 08:57:42 +1100, john james wrote:

There are a lot of industries which Germany does very well in.
Road vehicles are18% of German exports by value, US$250bn in 2013.

What matters with regard to what is being discussed is exports outside
the eurozone, not exports in general.

I didn't commented on that, just pointed out that some exports,
particularly by small exporters, would be easier if Britain was outside
the EU because then the exporters would not have to bother with the EU
requirements on charging the VAT due in the country it is exported to
with intangible stuff as opposed to tangible goods.

Exporting to countries within the EU, the only time the situation you
describe would come into play, would be far _more_ complicated, not less.

Unless, of course, the UK were to remain within the EU free trade or VAT
areas after leaving the EU itself, in which case the _exact_ same
situation as currently would still apply, except we'd have no say at all
in future trade negotiations.

All of EEA and EFTA members except for Svalbard are EU Free Trade
members, btw, but none are VAT members currently, although several non-EEA
and EFTA overseas territories of EU countries are.

The sooner we replace VAT the better. An administrative nightmare.

On 17/02/2015 22:54, Capitol wrote:
....
The sooner we replace VAT the better. An administrative nightmare.

Not IME, even though some of my supplies were exempt, which always
attracted the attention of inspectors.

--
Colin Bignell

In message , Adrian
writes
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 07:06:29 +1100, john james wrote:

So why aren't we making those exports now?

Because the EU system stops that or makes it less convenient than
with your competitors like the US....

The correct answer is that Britain has long failed to exploit
emerging overseas markets and was being criticised for that failure
well before the recession.

It is not up to Britain to negotiate trade deals with the rest of the
world. That is what the EU does.

And the exact same trade deals apply to the UK - which is apparently
failing to export - as to Germany - which is exporting hand-over-fist.

That isn't because of trade deals, it's because the collapse in the euro
has made German cars very attractively priced outside the eurozone.

Not just the motor industry, and not just recently.
Germany has benefited from the value of the euro being held lower by the
economies and debt of the poorer countries in the eurozone.
--
bert

"Adrian" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 08:57:42 +1100, john james wrote:

There are a lot of industries which Germany does very well in.
Road vehicles are 18% of German exports by value, US$250bn in 2013.

What matters with regard to what is being discussed is exports outside
the eurozone, not exports in general.

I didn't commented on that, just pointed out that some exports,
particularly by small exporters, would be easier if Britain was outside
the EU because then the exporters would not have to bother with the EU
requirements on charging the VAT due in the country it is exported to
with intangible stuff as opposed to tangible goods.

Exporting to countries within the EU, the only time the situation you
describe would come into play,

That isn't correct with the change that came in at the start of this year.

news.individual.net did in fact decide not to bother to
accept subscribers who were not in Germany because of
the new tax arrangements that came in at the start of this
year.

would be far _more_ complicated, not less.

That is not correct with the tax change that came in at the start of this
year.

Unless, of course, the UK were to remain within the EU free
trade or VAT areas after leaving the EU itself, in which case
the _exact_ same situation as currently would still apply,

But that does see some not bother to export because
of the extra hassle involved in doing that.

except we'd have no say at all in future trade negotiations.

All of EEA and EFTA members except for Svalbard are EU Free Trade
members, btw, but none are VAT members currently, although
several non-EEA and EFTA overseas territories of EU countries are.

That's all a separate issue to the exporter charging the vat that
is due in the country the intangible goods have been exported
to and forwarding them to the buyer's country. Quite a few of
the smaller exporters just can't be bothered with the hassle that
doing that involves, particularly getting VAT registered in every
country that they might export to or using the scheme that
simplifies that in Britain currently.

"Dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 17/02/2015 21:57, john james wrote:

I didn't commented on that, just pointed out that some
exports, particularly by small exporters, would be easier
if Britain was outside the EU because then the exporters
would not have to bother with the EU requirements on
charging the VAT due in the country it is exported to
with intangible stuff as opposed to tangible goods.

What VAT, its only the EU that charges VAT not the rest of the world.

That is not correct. Quite a bit of the rest of the world does charge a VAT
tho they don't all call it that. Its a VAT in the sense that it applies to
both
goods and services and applies to the value added with each transaction.

Exports to the EU would be rather harder if we were not in the EU as they
try to block imports for stuff already made in the EU.

That isn't correct either, Britain is currently free to import lots
of stuff from China and the US that is currently made in the EU.

"Nightjar.me.uk" "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 17/02/2015 20:39, Rod Speed wrote:
Nightjar.me.uk" "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote
Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Nightjar.me.uk" "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote

So why aren't we making those exports now?

Because the EU system stops that or makes it less
convenient than with your competitors like the US....

The correct answer is that Britain has long failed to exploit
emerging overseas markets and was being criticised for that failure
well before the recession.

It is not up to Britain to negotiate trade deals with the rest of the
world. That is what the EU does...

Germany is in the EU, but it exports twice the percentage of its total
exports and over five times the value to China, as compared to the UK.

That's because the slump in the value of the euro has made
what they export very attractive to buyers outside the eurozone....

They were doing it when the Euro was strong.

They have done a lot better now when the euro is so weak.

On 17/02/15 19:45, bert wrote:
In message , Adrian
writes
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 10:22:43 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I rather suspect you're conflating the Gov'ts income/expenditure with
the country's income/expenditure.

Until we achieve full Eurocommunist integration, they are not the same
thing.

I'll add "conflate" to the long list of words and concepts you don't
understand, shall I?

No.

Read again carefully.

shrug Fine. So you were pointing out that two different things were
different, in reply to a post suggesting somebody might have confused
them.
You seem very ready to jump to the conclusion that other people don't
understand something rather than accept that you are wrong.

pot kettle black


--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 22:20:18 +0000, Dennis@home wrote:

What VAT, its only the EU that charges VAT not the rest of the world.

No, it isn't. Almost every country charges VAT in some form.

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 22:54:09 +0000, Capitol wrote:

The sooner we replace VAT the better. An administrative nightmare.

You ever run a VAT-reg business? If your accounting software's even
quarter-way competent, it's a piece of ****.

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 11:03:13 +1100, john james wrote:

news.individual.net did in fact decide not to bother to accept
subscribers who were not in Germany because of the new tax arrangements
that came in at the start of this year.

Which is actually due to the German tax authorities choosing to make life
very difficult for German companies, compared to the way HMRC have chosen
to implement it.

https://www.gov.uk/vat-on-digital-services-in-the-eu

In article ,
Adrian wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 22:54:09 +0000, Capitol wrote:

The sooner we replace VAT the better. An administrative nightmare.

You ever run a VAT-reg business? If your accounting software's even
quarter-way competent, it's a piece of ****.

now, Purchase Tax ...

--
From KT24 in Surrey

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

On 18/02/2015 08:41, Adrian wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 22:54:09 +0000, Capitol wrote:

The sooner we replace VAT the better. An administrative nightmare.

You ever run a VAT-reg business? If your accounting software's even
quarter-way competent, it's a piece of ****.


I worked for an import / export company in the days before VAT. If you
want an administrative nightmare, the purchase tax we had then would be
an excellent contender.

--
Colin Bignell

"Adrian" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 11:03:13 +1100, john james wrote:

news.individual.net did in fact decide not to bother to accept
subscribers who were not in Germany because of the new tax arrangements
that came in at the start of this year.

Which is actually due to the German tax authorities choosing to make life
very difficult for German companies, compared to the way HMRC have chosen
to implement it.

No, Germany has the same system.

https://www.gov.uk/vat-on-digital-services-in-the-eu

Plenty of the smaller exporters choose not to bother with that system.

On 18/02/2015 00:06, john james wrote:


"Dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 17/02/2015 21:57, john james wrote:

I didn't commented on that, just pointed out that some
exports, particularly by small exporters, would be easier
if Britain was outside the EU because then the exporters
would not have to bother with the EU requirements on
charging the VAT due in the country it is exported to
with intangible stuff as opposed to tangible goods.

What VAT, its only the EU that charges VAT not the rest of the world.

That is not correct. Quite a bit of the rest of the world does charge a VAT
tho they don't all call it that. Its a VAT in the sense that it applies
to both
goods and services and applies to the value added with each transaction.

VAT is what we are required to charge when selling to members of the EU.
We are not required to do any of that stuff when exporting to elsewhere.
You may be charged import duty by the other country if they are trying
to restrict their imports just like the EU does.


Exports to the EU would be rather harder if we were not in the EU as
they try to block imports for stuff already made in the EU.

That isn't correct either, Britain is currently free to import lots
of stuff from China and the US that is currently made in the EU.

So I am imagining the duty charged on imports fro outside the EU?

"Dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 18/02/2015 00:06, john james wrote:


"Dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 17/02/2015 21:57, john james wrote:

I didn't commented on that, just pointed out that some
exports, particularly by small exporters, would be easier
if Britain was outside the EU because then the exporters
would not have to bother with the EU requirements on
charging the VAT due in the country it is exported to
with intangible stuff as opposed to tangible goods.

What VAT, its only the EU that charges VAT not the rest of the world.

That is not correct. Quite a bit of the rest of the world does charge a
VAT
tho they don't all call it that. Its a VAT in the sense that it applies
to both
goods and services and applies to the value added with each transaction.

VAT is what we are required to charge when selling to members of the EU.

Yes.

We are not required to do any of that stuff when exporting to elsewhere.

But if Britain chose to leave the EU, an exporter would not be
required to charge the VAT that applies in the buyer's country
and forward that VAT collected to the buyer's country.

You may be charged import duty by the other country if they are trying to
restrict their imports just like the EU does.

They dont do that to restrict anything, they just collect the VAT that is
due.

In other words its collected on entry to the country, not by the seller.

And it isn't possible for the EU to do it like that, because goods
that move between EU countries dont go through the same
customs system as goods that come in from outside the EU.

And with the intangibles being discussed, the VAT that is due
can not be charged by customs, because intangible transactions
never go anywhere near customs, even with imports from outside
the EU. That is why the change was made at the start of the year
to force the exporter to collect the VAT and send it to the buyer's
country.

Exports to the EU would be rather harder if we were not in the EU as
they try to block imports for stuff already made in the EU.

That isn't correct either, Britain is currently free to import lots
of stuff from China and the US that is currently made in the EU.

So I am imagining the duty charged on imports fro outside the EU?

There is no duty on quite a bit of the imports.

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 21:04:00 +1100, john james wrote:

But if Britain chose to leave the EU, an exporter would not be required
to charge the VAT that applies in the buyer's country and forward that
VAT collected to the buyer's country.

If somebody in the UK buys something from France, now, they pay French
TVA on it in the same way as a French resident would.

If somebody in France buys something from the UK, now, they pay UK VAT on
it in the same way as a UK resident would.

If somebody in the UK buys something from France, after we leave the EU,
they would pay UK VAT (and any duty that might be applicable) on it on
import, involving declarations of value and usually a handling charge
from the courier in the same way as if it came from outside the EU
currently.

If somebody in France buys something from the UK, after we leave the EU,
they would pay French TVA (and any duty that might be applicable) on it
on import, involving declarations of value and usually a handling charge
from the courier in the same way as if it came from outside the EU
currently.

Seems to me that the current way of dealing with other EU countries is by
far and away the easier one. Unless, of course, you really believe that
the UK would get shot of any kind of value-added/goods-and-services/
purchase/sales tax if we left the EU?

Can't see that happening, not least because it would leave a roughly
£100bn hole in the Gov'ts income each year that'd need to be filled with
something else.

Adrian wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 22:54:09 +0000, Capitol wrote:

The sooner we replace VAT the better. An administrative nightmare.

You ever run a VAT-reg business? If your accounting software's even
quarter-way competent, it's a piece of ****.

Yes. VAT is an unneccessary administrative nightmare. Purchase tax
required a workforce of 30 people, VAT misemploys thousands.

On 18/02/15 08:41, Adrian wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 22:54:09 +0000, Capitol wrote:

The sooner we replace VAT the better. An administrative nightmare.

You ever run a VAT-reg business? If your accounting software's even
quarter-way competent, it's a piece of ****.

you mean you could afford accounting software?
And the time to enter in all those petrol receipts?


--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

Adrian wrote:
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 21:04:00 +1100, john james wrote:

But if Britain chose to leave the EU, an exporter would not be required
to charge the VAT that applies in the buyer's country and forward that
VAT collected to the buyer's country.

If somebody in the UK buys something from France, now, they pay French
TVA on it in the same way as a French resident would.

If somebody in France buys something from the UK, now, they pay UK VAT on
it in the same way as a UK resident would.

If somebody in the UK buys something from France, after we leave the EU,
they would pay UK VAT (and any duty that might be applicable) on it on
import, involving declarations of value and usually a handling charge
from the courier in the same way as if it came from outside the EU
currently.

If somebody in France buys something from the UK, after we leave the EU,
they would pay French TVA (and any duty that might be applicable) on it
on import, involving declarations of value and usually a handling charge
from the courier in the same way as if it came from outside the EU
currently.

Seems to me that the current way of dealing with other EU countries is by
far and away the easier one. Unless, of course, you really believe that
the UK would get shot of any kind of value-added/goods-and-services/
purchase/sales tax if we left the EU?

Can't see that happening, not least because it would leave a roughly
£100bn hole in the Gov'ts income each year that'd need to be filled with
something else.

Yes, sales tax.

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 10:58:10 +0000, Capitol wrote:

Seems to me that the current way of dealing with other EU countries is
by far and away the easier one. Unless, of course, you really believe
that the UK would get shot of any kind of
value-added/goods-and-services/ purchase/sales tax if we left the EU?

Can't see that happening, not least because it would leave a roughly
£100bn hole in the Gov'ts income each year that'd need to be filled
with something else.

Yes, sales tax.

Other than the name, care to explain the difference?

On 18/02/15 11:02, Adrian wrote:
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 10:58:10 +0000, Capitol wrote:

Seems to me that the current way of dealing with other EU countries is
by far and away the easier one. Unless, of course, you really believe
that the UK would get shot of any kind of
value-added/goods-and-services/ purchase/sales tax if we left the EU?

Can't see that happening, not least because it would leave a roughly
£100bn hole in the Gov'ts income each year that'd need to be filled
with something else.

Yes, sales tax.

Other than the name, care to explain the difference?

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015...uropean-union/

interesting article.


--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 11:04:32 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Seems to me that the current way of dealing with other EU countries
is by far and away the easier one. Unless, of course, you really
believe that the UK would get shot of any kind of
value-added/goods-and-services/ purchase/sales tax if we left the EU?

Can't see that happening, not least because it would leave a roughly
£100bn hole in the Gov'ts income each year that'd need to be filled
with something else.

Yes, sales tax.

Other than the name, care to explain the difference?

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015...hrive-outside-
the-european-union/

interesting article.

....written by one of the most profoundly anti-EU of MEPs, outside of
UKIP. So hardly an unbiased reflection.

But about the difference between a sales tax and a value-added tax?

On 18/02/15 11:12, Adrian wrote:
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 11:04:32 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Seems to me that the current way of dealing with other EU countries
is by far and away the easier one. Unless, of course, you really
believe that the UK would get shot of any kind of
value-added/goods-and-services/ purchase/sales tax if we left the EU?

Can't see that happening, not least because it would leave a roughly
£100bn hole in the Gov'ts income each year that'd need to be filled
with something else.

Yes, sales tax.

Other than the name, care to explain the difference?

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015...hrive-outside-
the-european-union/

interesting article.

...written by one of the most profoundly anti-EU of MEPs, outside of
UKIP. So hardly an unbiased reflection.


That is what is so interesting. The most anti EU politician isn't in UKIP...


The second interesting thing is that you haven't challenged his
arguments - merely attempted to discredit his competence to make an
argument at all.

But about the difference between a sales tax and a value-added tax?



--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll