Well the new apprentice does charity work. And not any old voluntary charity
work - he has paid to take a course to be allowed to do this work.

Does anyone else find this impressive?

--
Adam

On Saturday 07 September 2013 10:11 ARW wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Well the new apprentice does charity work. And not any old voluntary
charity work - he has paid to take a course to be allowed to do this work.

Does anyone else find this impressive?


Very. A rare find.

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

ARW wrote:
Well the new apprentice does charity work. And not any old voluntary charity
work - he has paid to take a course to be allowed to do this work.

Does anyone else find this impressive?

Yes, very.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 09/07/2013 10:11 AM, ARW wrote:
Well the new apprentice does charity work. And not any old voluntary charity
work - he has paid to take a course to be allowed to do this work.

Does anyone else find this impressive?


JOOI, how long are these guys apprentices and how are they qualified at
the end of it? You seem to have a very high turnover.

Andy C

In message , ARW
writes
Well the new apprentice does charity work. And not any old voluntary charity
work - he has paid to take a course to be allowed to do this work.

Does anyone else find this impressive?


Most impressive.

You sound as though you may actually like this one?
--
Bill

Andy Cap wrote:
On 09/07/2013 10:11 AM, ARW wrote:
Well the new apprentice does charity work. And not any old voluntary
charity work - he has paid to take a course to be allowed to do this
work. Does anyone else find this impressive?


JOOI, how long are these guys apprentices and how are they qualified
at the end of it? You seem to have a very high turnover.

Fully qualified (AM2 passed) if they make it to the end. And the turnover is
due to their own makings in most cases.

Three have gone in the last two months. The reasons were - one for refusing
to sign or adhere to the mobile phone behaviour contract [1],one for drink
driving, and the last one for lying, being lazy and answering back.

[1] We now have a contract due to some of them spending all day texting or
facebooking. Basically this says their phones should be left with the
electrician they are working with unless otherwise approved. Apprentice said
"It's my phone and you cannot take it off me and you cannot make me sign
that contract". No, but we can fire you:-). And his precious was more
important to him than his job.


--
Adam

Bill wrote:
In message , ARW
writes
Well the new apprentice does charity work. And not any old voluntary
charity work - he has paid to take a course to be allowed to do this
work. Does anyone else find this impressive?


Most impressive.

You sound as though you may actually like this one?

I prefer the one that can do funny impressions (both voice and mannerisms)
of people just after meeting them. He did one of the headmistress at a
school the other day - and halfway through the impression she appeared
behind him from a classroom door and watched him. And he must be good
because she was amused.

--
Adam

"ARW" wrote in message
...
Well the new apprentice does charity work. And not any old voluntary
charity work - he has paid to take a course to be allowed to do this work.

Does anyone else find this impressive?

Depends on his reasons and motives I suppose. At face value, very
impressive.

On 09/07/2013 01:00 PM, ARW wrote:

Three have gone in the last two months. The reasons were - one for refusing
to sign or adhere to the mobile phone behaviour contract [1],one for drink
driving, and the last one for lying, being lazy and answering back.

[1] We now have a contract due to some of them spending all day texting or
facebooking. Basically this says their phones should be left with the
electrician they are working with unless otherwise approved. Apprentice said
"It's my phone and you cannot take it off me and you cannot make me sign
that contract". No, but we can fire you:-). And his precious was more
important to him than his job.



What a nightmare !

Andy Cap wrote:
On 09/07/2013 01:00 PM, ARW wrote:

Three have gone in the last two months. The reasons were - one for
refusing to sign or adhere to the mobile phone behaviour contract
[1],one for drink driving, and the last one for lying, being lazy
and answering back. [1] We now have a contract due to some of them
spending all day
texting or facebooking. Basically this says their phones should be
left with the electrician they are working with unless otherwise
approved. Apprentice said "It's my phone and you cannot take it off
me and you cannot make me sign that contract". No, but we can fire
you:-). And his precious was more important to him than his job.



What a nightmare !

And we will just get another three and start again.

--
Adam

On 07/09/2013 15:33, ARW wrote:

And we will just get another three and start again.


I find it hard to believe that it makes commercial sense to have such a
high turnover. It takes time to train them, and even just having to
process the payroll for them costs money. Selecting fewer, better ones,
and nurturing them more, would make more sense to most organisations.

GB wrote:
On 07/09/2013 15:33, ARW wrote:

And we will just get another three and start again.


I find it hard to believe that it makes commercial sense to have such
a high turnover. It takes time to train them, and even just having to
process the payroll for them costs money. Selecting fewer, better
ones, and nurturing them more, would make more sense to most
organisations.

Are you an expert on choosing 16 year olds suitable for the trade?

--
Adam

ARW wrote:

Are you an expert on choosing 16 year olds suitable for the trade?

Sounds a bit dodgy...

Bill

On 07/09/2013 17:46, ARW wrote:
GB wrote:
On 07/09/2013 15:33, ARW wrote:

And we will just get another three and start again.


I find it hard to believe that it makes commercial sense to have such
a high turnover. It takes time to train them, and even just having to
process the payroll for them costs money. Selecting fewer, better
ones, and nurturing them more, would make more sense to most
organisations.

Are you an expert on choosing 16 year olds suitable for the trade?


Nope. Does your firm take all comers? If the firm is actually selecting
the ones you moan about, maybe you should alter the selection process.
Or motivate them more in some way?

"ARW" wrote in message
...
GB wrote:
On 07/09/2013 15:33, ARW wrote:

And we will just get another three and start again.


I find it hard to believe that it makes commercial sense to have such
a high turnover. It takes time to train them, and even just having to
process the payroll for them costs money. Selecting fewer, better
ones, and nurturing them more, would make more sense to most
organisations.

Are you an expert on choosing 16 year olds suitable for the trade?

Who interviews these kids?

"GB" wrote in message
...
On 07/09/2013 17:46, ARW wrote:
GB wrote:
On 07/09/2013 15:33, ARW wrote:

And we will just get another three and start again.


I find it hard to believe that it makes commercial sense to have such
a high turnover. It takes time to train them, and even just having to
process the payroll for them costs money. Selecting fewer, better
ones, and nurturing them more, would make more sense to most
organisations.

Are you an expert on choosing 16 year olds suitable for the trade?


Nope. Does your firm take all comers? If the firm is actually selecting
the ones you moan about, maybe you should alter the selection process. Or
motivate them more in some way?

It might be that these lads have heard how much a qualified sparky earns and
get a shock (no pun) when they realise how much work (and how little pay) it
takes to get there, get bored or disillusioned and can't be arsed. You can't
tell most 16-year-olds that if they dedicate themselves & put up with the
**** now, they'll be laughing at the end of it, most of them can't even see
past lunchtime.

In article ,
GB writes:
On 07/09/2013 17:46, ARW wrote:
GB wrote:
On 07/09/2013 15:33, ARW wrote:

And we will just get another three and start again.


I find it hard to believe that it makes commercial sense to have such
a high turnover. It takes time to train them, and even just having to
process the payroll for them costs money. Selecting fewer, better
ones, and nurturing them more, would make more sense to most
organisations.

Are you an expert on choosing 16 year olds suitable for the trade?


Nope. Does your firm take all comers? If the firm is actually selecting
the ones you moan about, maybe you should alter the selection process.
Or motivate them more in some way?

Jamie Oliver was recently saying it's very difficult to find
students with a suitable work ethic.

What sort of interview or vetting do you do before you accept
them? What sort of qualifications do they need before they start?

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In message , Bill
writes
In message , ARW
writes
Well the new apprentice does charity work. And not any old voluntary charity
work - he has paid to take a course to be allowed to do this work.

Does anyone else find this impressive?


Most impressive.

You sound as though you may actually like this one?

An apprentice who joined in my year turned out to be a member of the
Plymouth Brethren. He wasn't allowed to do anything *worldly*. Someone
didn't ask enough questions.

--
Tim Lamb

On Saturday, September 7, 2013 1:09:16 PM UTC+1, wrote:
Bill wrote:

In message , ARW

writes

Well the new apprentice does charity work. And not any old voluntary

charity work - he has paid to take a course to be allowed to do this

work. Does anyone else find this impressive?





Most impressive.



You sound as though you may actually like this one?



I prefer the one that can do funny impressions (both voice and mannerisms)

of people just after meeting them. He did one of the headmistress at a

school the other day - and halfway through the impression she appeared

behind him from a classroom door and watched him. And he must be good

because she was amused.



--

Adam

Have you heard the impressionists impression of yourself yet Adam? Remember to smile.

GB wrote:
On 07/09/2013 17:46, ARW wrote:
GB wrote:
On 07/09/2013 15:33, ARW wrote:

And we will just get another three and start again.


I find it hard to believe that it makes commercial sense to have
such a high turnover. It takes time to train them, and even just
having to process the payroll for them costs money. Selecting
fewer, better ones, and nurturing them more, would make more sense
to most organisations.

Are you an expert on choosing 16 year olds suitable for the trade?


Nope. Does your firm take all comers? If the firm is actually
selecting the ones you moan about, maybe you should alter the
selection process. Or motivate them more in some way?

Well one went because he chose his mobile phone over work, there is not a
lot I can do about that. One left because he lost his driving license and
could no longer get to work. Other than the mobile phone I had no issues
with them

Now the third one. I did not work much with him. But how do you motivate
someone who deliberately does half a job, lies, refuses to do what you ask
him and answers back. Well I got sick it so I grabbed him by the throat
slammed him against a wall put my fist to his face and shouted "answer back
to me once more and I'll smash your face in". Well that stopped the
answering back but he still had no interest in the job so he was fired. You
cannot force them to be interested.


--
Adam

most of them can't even see past lunchtime.

That's it in a nutshell

"ARW" wrote in message
...
GB wrote:
On 07/09/2013 15:33, ARW wrote:

And we will just get another three and start again.


I find it hard to believe that it makes commercial sense to have such
a high turnover. It takes time to train them, and even just having to
process the payroll for them costs money. Selecting fewer, better
ones, and nurturing them more, would make more sense to most
organisations.

Are you an expert on choosing 16 year olds suitable for the trade?

Why does one need to be an expert in something to be allowed to suggest,
from anecdotal evidence, that someone else might be doing something wrong.

There must be a way of filtering out some of the no-hopers here.

People who aren't interested when they get the job usually aren't convincing
when interviewed about why they want it (I accept that there are some false
positives and negatives).

tim

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
GB writes:
On 07/09/2013 17:46, ARW wrote:
GB wrote:
On 07/09/2013 15:33, ARW wrote:

And we will just get another three and start again.


I find it hard to believe that it makes commercial sense to have
such a high turnover. It takes time to train them, and even just
having to process the payroll for them costs money. Selecting
fewer, better ones, and nurturing them more, would make more sense
to most organisations.

Are you an expert on choosing 16 year olds suitable for the trade?


Nope. Does your firm take all comers? If the firm is actually
selecting the ones you moan about, maybe you should alter the
selection process. Or motivate them more in some way?

Jamie Oliver was recently saying it's very difficult to find
students with a suitable work ethic.

What sort of interview or vetting do you do before you accept
them? What sort of qualifications do they need before they start?

Maths and English are normally a must.

They are all pretty much the same at interview. 16 years old and wishing
they were still in bed and that their Mother could take the interview for
them. These are not the A* students you have to interview:-). You only find
out what they are like when they start. The obvious rubbish can be spotted
and rejected at interview but generally you are looking at clones.

Remember the 35 year old apprentice? He passed all his exams but after a
year on the tools he was no better than when he started. He could not be
left on his own unless it was simple tasks and you were constantly covering
old ground eg if he had not wired a timed fan up for 2 months then you would
have to show him how to do it again.

And there those that have already done a year at college, they seem to be
the worst when it comes to work ethic.

--
Adam

"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message , Bill
writes
In message , ARW
writes
Well the new apprentice does charity work. And not any old voluntary
charity
work - he has paid to take a course to be allowed to do this work.

Does anyone else find this impressive?


Most impressive.

You sound as though you may actually like this one?

An apprentice who joined in my year turned out to be a member of the
Plymouth Brethren. He wasn't allowed to do anything *worldly*.

and what do you mean by that? Does it stop the person doing the job?

Someone didn't ask enough questions.

It's a question that if you did ask (and act upon the answer) could see you
on the wrong end of a discrimination suit

tim


--
Tim Lamb

In article ,
Tim Lamb wrote:
An apprentice who joined in my year turned out to be a member of the
Plymouth Brethren. He wasn't allowed to do anything *worldly*. Someone
didn't ask enough questions.

The Plymouth Brethren manage to fish on the high seas doing all the jobs
on board (and on land) required for that. Their restrictions tend to be
confined to what would be broadly called leisure activities. Since Adam
seems to complain most about his 'lads' not concentrating on their work,
is this a bad thing?
It would be if you want a companion down the pub to talk about last
night's TV, etc, I suppose.

--
*Errors have been made. Others will be blamed.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , tim.....
scribeth thus

"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
.. .
In message , Bill
writes
In message , ARW
writes
Well the new apprentice does charity work. And not any old voluntary
charity
work - he has paid to take a course to be allowed to do this work.

Does anyone else find this impressive?


Most impressive.

You sound as though you may actually like this one?

An apprentice who joined in my year turned out to be a member of the
Plymouth Brethren. He wasn't allowed to do anything *worldly*.

and what do you mean by that? Does it stop the person doing the job?

Someone didn't ask enough questions.

It's a question that if you did ask (and act upon the answer) could see you
on the wrong end of a discrimination suit

tim


--
Tim Lamb



Place where we go sometimes has a young lady there who's miss industry
herself, an excellent worker and just gets on with the job no problems
at all. Her guv'nor speaks very highly of her and can't praise her
enough.

But don't expect her to join in with any outside work activities she
just won't do that at all .. Shes in the witnesses ..

--
Tony Sayer

On 08/09/13 10:16, stuart noble wrote:
most of them can't even see past lunchtime.

That's it in a nutshell

Those who are interested should google 'time-span of discretion'

Essentially how far ahead people think or can be trusted to think, in
terms of theoractions and decisions.

Interestingly., people who routinely lie have very short time spans of
discretion. They are not concerned about anything beyond the moment, and
getting through it.



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

On 08/09/13 10:25, tim..... wrote:

"ARW" wrote in message
...
GB wrote:
On 07/09/2013 15:33, ARW wrote:

And we will just get another three and start again.


I find it hard to believe that it makes commercial sense to have such
a high turnover. It takes time to train them, and even just having to
process the payroll for them costs money. Selecting fewer, better
ones, and nurturing them more, would make more sense to most
organisations.

Are you an expert on choosing 16 year olds suitable for the trade?

Why does one need to be an expert in something to be allowed to
suggest, from anecdotal evidence, that someone else might be doing
something wrong.

There must be a way of filtering out some of the no-hopers here.

very hard.

Most of them do it because they can get a bit more benefit f it looks
like they are trying to get work.

People who aren't interested when they get the job usually aren't
convincing when interviewed about why they want it (I accept that
there are some false positives and negatives).

tim











--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

On 09/08/2013 12:48 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

There must be a way of filtering out some of the no-hopers here.

very hard.

Most of them do it because they can get a bit more benefit f it looks
like they are trying to get work.


Why not ask them some simple questions about electricity, wiring, use of
tools etc. If they had any genuine interest, they would have surely
turned their hands to something along those lines. If they know nothing,
I wouldn't give them the time of day because it's just a waste on time
and money.

As for the phone contract, that should also be explained and accepted
during the interview.

But the bottom line is that they're raised on a diet of entitlement and
not responsibility but addressing that is like trying to turn the Titanic.

Andy C

Huge wrote:
On 2013-09-07, ARW wrote:
Well the new apprentice does charity work. And not any old voluntary
charity work - he has paid to take a course to be allowed to do this
work.

Does anyone else find this impressive?

Yes. Keep him.

He might be qualified, but he has not actually done any charity work yet. He
relies on call outs to use his skills and he has not had a call out yet.
Still it's good to know that if needed he will be there.

--
Adam

Andy Cap wrote:
On 09/08/2013 12:48 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

There must be a way of filtering out some of the no-hopers here.

very hard.

Most of them do it because they can get a bit more benefit f it looks
like they are trying to get work.


Why not ask them some simple questions about electricity, wiring, use
of tools etc. If they had any genuine interest, they would have surely
turned their hands to something along those lines. If they know
nothing, I wouldn't give them the time of day because it's just a
waste on time and money.

As for the phone contract, that should also be explained and accepted
during the interview.

But the bottom line is that they're raised on a diet of entitlement
and not responsibility but addressing that is like trying to turn the
Titanic.
I probably have not made clear how many are ****ed off at the interview
stage. Turning up with trousers hanging down their arse, hands in pockets,
slouching and absolutely nothing to say. One of them burst into tears when
asked why he wanted to become an electrician. FFS what chance did he have?.

Now the mobile phone contract is new, this one already worked for us when it
was brought in and he refused to sign it. Other than that he was a good
worker and learner, but he is paid to do 8 hours work a day not 6 hours work
and 2 hours ****ing about on facebook.


--
Adam

"ARW" wrote in message
...
Andy Cap wrote:
On 09/08/2013 12:48 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

There must be a way of filtering out some of the no-hopers here.

very hard.

Most of them do it because they can get a bit more benefit f it looks
like they are trying to get work.


Why not ask them some simple questions about electricity, wiring, use
of tools etc. If they had any genuine interest, they would have surely
turned their hands to something along those lines. If they know
nothing, I wouldn't give them the time of day because it's just a
waste on time and money.

As for the phone contract, that should also be explained and accepted
during the interview.

But the bottom line is that they're raised on a diet of entitlement
and not responsibility but addressing that is like trying to turn the
Titanic.
I probably have not made clear how many are ****ed off at the interview
stage. Turning up with trousers hanging down their arse, hands in pockets,
slouching and absolutely nothing to say. One of them burst into tears when
asked why he wanted to become an electrician. FFS what chance did he
have?.

Now the mobile phone contract is new, this one already worked for us when
it was brought in and he refused to sign it. Other than that he was a good
worker and learner, but he is paid to do 8 hours work a day not 6 hours
work and 2 hours ****ing about on facebook.

Hmmmm, when I got my first job as an apprentice I would probably have
floundered if asked why I wanted to become a heating engineer.
Who interviews them Adam? Somebody hands on or somebody sat all day in the
office?

On 08/09/2013 09:48, ARW wrote:


Now the third one. I did not work much with him. But how do you motivate
someone who deliberately does half a job

Bonus for doing the job right, even if that's just you digging into your
pocket to buy him a Mars bar? Or even just praise for doing well? It
does sound like you (maybe the whole firm) haven't got the hang of how
to deal with these kids.


, lies

Maybe because you are down on him like a ton of bricks every time he
makes a mistake?



, refuses to do what you ask
him

I have given up having staff, as they never did what I wanted. It turns
out that I was lousy at managing staff and giving clear instructions ....






and answers back.

Ohmigod! Never!

What's the point, anyway, as you probably don't listen?



Well I got sick it so I grabbed him by the throat
slammed him against a wall put my fist to his face and shouted "answer back
to me once more and I'll smash your face in".

I'm quite surprised that he didn't get his phone out and dial 999.


Well that stopped the
answering back but he still had no interest in the job so he was fired. You
cannot force them to be interested.

No, you can't make them interested. Well, you can't. Other people might
be able to.

On 08/09/2013 14:33, Mr Pounder wrote:

Hmmmm, when I got my first job as an apprentice I would probably have
floundered if asked why I wanted to become a heating engineer.
Who interviews them Adam? Somebody hands on or somebody sat all day in the
office?

It's a daft question, really. Some jobs are a vocation - missionary,
teacher, doctor, etc. But nobody has a vocation to be an electrician.
It's just a way to earn a living that's quite interesting and involves a
mixture of mental and manual skills.

Well I got sick it so I grabbed him by the throat
slammed him against a wall put my fist to his face and shouted "answer back
to me once more and I'll smash your face in".


Probably .. If someone else or more then the someone else had tried to
drum a few things into him when he was younger then you wouldn't have to
be doing that now;!...

I'm quite surprised that he didn't get his phone out and dial 999.


Well that stopped the
answering back but he still had no interest in the job so he was fired. You
cannot force them to be interested.

No, you can't make them interested. Well, you can't. Other people might
be able to.

Well from what I've seen of young people I can see where Adam is coming
from. There're not all spoilt poorly bought up and unmotivated 'tho a
lot are sadly .. they have sod all idea of what its like being out at
work and having to get of their arses and earn their own money...


--
Tony Sayer

On 08/09/2013 14:38, GB wrote:
On 08/09/2013 09:48, ARW wrote:


Now the third one. I did not work much with him. But how do you motivate
someone who deliberately does half a job

Bonus for doing the job right, even if that's just you digging into your
pocket to buy him a Mars bar? Or even just praise for doing well? It
does sound like you (maybe the whole firm) haven't got the hang of how
to deal with these kids.


, lies

Maybe because you are down on him like a ton of bricks every time he
makes a mistake?



, refuses to do what you ask
him

I have given up having staff, as they never did what I wanted. It turns
out that I was lousy at managing staff and giving clear instructions ....






and answers back.

Ohmigod! Never!

What's the point, anyway, as you probably don't listen?



Well I got sick it so I grabbed him by the throat
slammed him against a wall put my fist to his face and shouted "answer
back
to me once more and I'll smash your face in".

I'm quite surprised that he didn't get his phone out and dial 999.


Well that stopped the
answering back but he still had no interest in the job so he was
fired. You
cannot force them to be interested.

No, you can't make them interested. Well, you can't. Other people might
be able to.




Can't believe what I'm hearing. These kids certainly *look* like a waste
of space, but to have it verified from the coal face is a little
disturbing. I wonder if they know how close they are to the scrap heap,
which won't be much fun in 10 years time. Perhaps they'll be penned in
on reservations, along with anyone else society doesn't need.

In article ,
GB wrote:
On 08/09/2013 14:33, Mr Pounder wrote:

Hmmmm, when I got my first job as an apprentice I would probably have
floundered if asked why I wanted to become a heating engineer.
Who interviews them Adam? Somebody hands on or somebody sat all day in the
office?

It's a daft question, really. Some jobs are a vocation - missionary,
teacher, doctor, etc. But nobody has a vocation to be an electrician.

No wonder manual skills are so much looked down on in the UK.

It's just a way to earn a living that's quite interesting and involves a
mixture of mental and manual skills.

Plenty of teachers just fall into the job because it's one they think they
understand - after all everyone goes to school. That, and the short hours,
holidays and pension.

--
*He who laughs last has just realised the joke.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 08 Sep 2013 11:53:41 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

Place where we go sometimes has a young lady there who's miss industry
herself, an excellent worker and just gets on with the job no problems
at all. Her guv'nor speaks very highly of her and can't praise her
enough.

But don't expect her to join in with any outside work activities she
just won't do that at all .. Shes in the witnesses ..

When I've wanted building work done that's outside my area of ability/
time, I try to get one local building firm (but they're very booked up).

All Witnesses.

--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
My posts (including this one) are my copyright and if @diy_forums on
Twitter wish to tweet them they can pay me £30 a post
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Sun, 08 Sep 2013 15:08:03 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Plenty of teachers just fall into the job because it's one they think
they understand - after all everyone goes to school. That, and the short
hours,
holidays and pension.

I'm not sure what short hours they would be.

--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
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In article ,
Bob Eager wrote:
On Sun, 08 Sep 2013 15:08:03 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Plenty of teachers just fall into the job because it's one they think
they understand - after all everyone goes to school. That, and the
short hours, holidays and pension.

I'm not sure what short hours they would be.

The myth that all teachers work many hours in excess of actual teaching
ones is just that,

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*The longest recorded flightof a chicken is thirteen seconds *

Dave Plowman London SW
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