Albert wrote:

Steve Firth wrote:
Spamlet wrote:

You may have got off lightly too. Plenty of places seem to insist that you
need new discs as well...

TBH replacing pads and disks is such a simple job that it's aggravating
to see what garages charge. Charging 1.5 hours to replace pads is a
rip-off.

How much do you think the tools cost to do the job? How much the council
taxes for the premises? Staff bill? Public Insurance liability?
Electricity? Being blamed for the exhaust pipe falling off after
changing the spark plugs?

What in all that list justifies charging for hours that were not worked?
I have an hourly rate for my work, does the fact that I have to pay
council tax, rent on business premises, staff wages, public liability
and professional indemnity, electricity, heating oil, incredibly high
charges for "tools of the trade"[1] and cope with customer complaints if
they occur justify me charging the customer extra hours for work not
done?

If being a mechanic is so easy you try having a go at it.

Where did I say that being a mechanic was easy? Perhaps you could
confine your whining to the realm of reality?


[1] If you think mechanics have to pay a high price for tools, you
should try being in my industry where licensing fees on tools can cost
as much per year as an "executive" car. And then there are the annual
professional membership fees, the routine examinations, audit etc that
mechanics don't have to do or pay for. So whine me no whines.

ARWadsworth wrote:

One of the times I broke down was on the motorway. The police pulled up
behind me and warned me that I only had 1 hour to get off the hard shoulder
or they would arrange recovery for me and I would be billed for it. I am not
sure that if I am 200 or more miles away from home on a Mway that I would be
able to arrange recovery as easily as calling my breakdown company and
saying "help". So yes, the lack of a number bothers me when so far from
home.

I agree with you, that and the high motorway mileage I do each year is
why I have breakdown cover. The most likely faults to occur on the
vehicles I own would not be fixable at the side of the road. Good
maintenance covers the majority of the rest.

My only quibble with RAC/AA is that they are poor VFM and the other
recovery services offer better value and often superior call out times.

On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 13:58:10 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

because for years the makers have been allowed to get away with the
fiction that dual-circuit brakes fill the requirements for primary and
secondary braking systems.
It is an utter fallacy that such systems work reliably.
Twice I've been in a car that suffered brake failure of one side of a
dual circuit braking system and guess what? - the pedal did buggerall
with the second circuit.

One assumes you did what anyone who "knows how to drive" would do. ie
press the pedal *far* harder than normal and if you run out travel,
or get close to running out of travel, pump it fast and hard.

Most people probably don't realise how much the servos (brakes or
steering) are assisting them these days. Yes you still have brakes or
steering without 'em but boy do you have to put some serious effort
into them. Brakes can catch people out as there can be enough vacuum
in the system for the first application to be normal but once that
vacuum has been used...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 13:30:16 +0100, ARWadsworth wrote:

I believe that you are only allowed so many call outs a year before they
stop your membership.

This is true and it's not very many, I don't think they cease your
membership just make you cough up some or all of the costs.

Over the years that I have had cover I would have been better off
banking my money and paying for a tow truck for the two occasions that I
have used them. Both recoveries were less than 30miles and were not due
to a lack of maintainance.

Probably the same here as far as the money goes but with two
recoveries from motorways of the 100+ mile range and then recovery
from home to the garage for repairs of 20+ miles. It's probably quite
close. Also the car is maintained by a st^H^Hdealers.

--
Cheers
Dave.

ARWadsworth wrote:
"Albert" wrote in message
...
Steve Firth wrote:
Spamlet wrote:

You may have got off lightly too. Plenty of places seem to insist that
you
need new discs as well...
TBH replacing pads and disks is such a simple job that it's aggravating
to see what garages charge. Charging 1.5 hours to replace pads is a
rip-off.
How much do you think the tools cost to do the job? How much the council
taxes for the premises? Staff bill? Public Insurance liability?
Electricity? Being blamed for the exhaust pipe falling off after changing
the spark plugs?

Steve did not question the hourly rate. He questioned the number of hours
that the garage charged for.

If being a mechanic is so easy you try having a go at it.

He did. And he can change his pads on a DIY basis on his car in less than 1
hour as can most people with a brain cell or two. So a garage charging 1.5
hours labour is a ripoff.

Adam
##
Its taken me up to 4 hours to free up seized callipers, and seized brake
drums ..

The strange assumption is that old rusty cars that cost less to buy,
ought to cost less to fix....

ARWadsworth wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
ARWadsworth wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...


What transpires is that people join the AA as a way of NOT doing car
maintenance at all.

which is why its expensive.
I believe that you are only allowed so many call outs a year before they
stop your membership.

I actually do have breakdown cover due to the long distances I sometimes
travel and often with a disabled passenger. Over the years that I have
had cover I would have been better off banking my money and paying for a
tow truck for the two occasions that I have used them. Both recoveries
were less than 30miles and were not due to a lack of maintainance.

I agree.

I think that the AA/RAC is simply only justified if you know sod all about
cars, and the thought of being stranded somewhere without a number to
call bothers you.

One of the times I broke down was on the motorway. The police pulled up
behind me and warned me that I only had 1 hour to get off the hard shoulder
or they would arrange recovery for me and I would be billed for it. I am not
sure that if I am 200 or more miles away from home on a Mway that I would be
able to arrange recovery as easily as calling my breakdown company and
saying "help". So yes, the lack of a number bothers me when so far from
home.


When my clapped out Sierra (student days) decided to seize it's diff in
Tintwhistle I just left it and hitched a lift home. I never saw the car
again. I left the keys in the glovebox and called a scrap yard to take it
away the next morning and posted off the log book.

It is not always my van or car that I am driving. I am not sure that the
owners would like me to leave their car/van if it broke down and let me
hitch home.


Then it is their responsibility to not end or hire it to you, or arrange
suitable cover.


Adam

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...
ARWadsworth wrote:

One of the times I broke down was on the motorway. The police pulled up
behind me and warned me that I only had 1 hour to get off the hard
shoulder
or they would arrange recovery for me and I would be billed for it. I am
not
sure that if I am 200 or more miles away from home on a Mway that I would
be
able to arrange recovery as easily as calling my breakdown company and
saying "help". So yes, the lack of a number bothers me when so far from
home.

I agree with you, that and the high motorway mileage I do each year is
why I have breakdown cover. The most likely faults to occur on the
vehicles I own would not be fixable at the side of the road. Good
maintenance covers the majority of the rest.

My only quibble with RAC/AA is that they are poor VFM and the other
recovery services offer better value and often superior call out times.

I swap them from time to time for special offers.

Another good example of where breakdown cover is needed is my Mother.

She cannot change a wheel. That is because she is not strong enough to
actually undo the nuts and lift a wheel. There is no guarantee that she can
call me, my brother or my Dad for help.

And the days of a passing driver giving a helping hand are almost gone.

Adam

Steve Firth wrote:

Albert wrote:

Steve Firth wrote:
Spamlet wrote:

You may have got off lightly too. Plenty of places seem to
insist that you need new discs as well...

TBH replacing pads and disks is such a simple job that it's
aggravating to see what garages charge. Charging 1.5 hours to
replace pads is a rip-off.

How much do you think the tools cost to do the job? How much the
council taxes for the premises? Staff bill? Public Insurance
liability? Electricity? Being blamed for the exhaust pipe
falling off after changing the spark plugs?

What in all that list justifies charging for hours that were not
worked? I have an hourly rate for my work, does the fact that I
have to pay council tax, rent on business premises, staff wages,
public liability and professional indemnity, electricity, heating
oil, incredibly high charges for "tools of the trade"[1] and cope
with customer complaints if they occur justify me charging the
customer extra hours for work not done?

If being a mechanic is so easy you try having a go at it.

Where did I say that being a mechanic was easy? Perhaps you could
confine your whining to the realm of reality?


[1] If you think mechanics have to pay a high price for tools, you
should try being in my industry where licensing fees on tools can
cost as much per year as an "executive" car. And then there are the
annual professional membership fees, the routine examinations,
audit etc that mechanics don't have to do or pay for. So whine me
no whines.

Some of those diagnostic tools aint cheap , many are vehicle specific
and you pay the manufacturers a licence fee every year.

Have you seen the price of a tow truck these days

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...


It is not always my van or car that I am driving. I am not sure that the
owners would like me to leave their car/van if it broke down and let me
hitch home.


Then it is their responsibility to not end or hire it to you, or arrange
suitable cover.

Not alway. I sometimes ask them if I can borrow their cars/vans. I am
getting them for free.

Adam

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 13:58:10 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

because for years the makers have been allowed to get away with the
fiction that dual-circuit brakes fill the requirements for primary and
secondary braking systems.
It is an utter fallacy that such systems work reliably.
Twice I've been in a car that suffered brake failure of one side of a
dual circuit braking system and guess what? - the pedal did buggerall
with the second circuit.

One assumes you did what anyone who "knows how to drive" would do. ie
press the pedal *far* harder than normal and if you run out travel,
or get close to running out of travel, pump it fast and hard.

Most people probably don't realise how much the servos (brakes or
steering) are assisting them these days. Yes you still have brakes or
steering without 'em but boy do you have to put some serious effort
into them. Brakes can catch people out as there can be enough vacuum
in the system for the first application to be normal but once that
vacuum has been used...

...assuming they are vacuum assisted.

Lots of systems these days have hydraulic pumps I think. Easier to make
ABS work.

ARWadsworth wrote:
"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...
ARWadsworth wrote:

One of the times I broke down was on the motorway. The police pulled up
behind me and warned me that I only had 1 hour to get off the hard
shoulder
or they would arrange recovery for me and I would be billed for it. I am
not
sure that if I am 200 or more miles away from home on a Mway that I would
be
able to arrange recovery as easily as calling my breakdown company and
saying "help". So yes, the lack of a number bothers me when so far from
home.
I agree with you, that and the high motorway mileage I do each year is
why I have breakdown cover. The most likely faults to occur on the
vehicles I own would not be fixable at the side of the road. Good
maintenance covers the majority of the rest.

My only quibble with RAC/AA is that they are poor VFM and the other
recovery services offer better value and often superior call out times.

I swap them from time to time for special offers.

Another good example of where breakdown cover is needed is my Mother.

She cannot change a wheel. That is because she is not strong enough to
actually undo the nuts and lift a wheel. There is no guarantee that she can
call me, my brother or my Dad for help.

And the days of a passing driver giving a helping hand are almost gone.


The classic case of not knowing one end of a spanner from the other, and
buying peace of mind.
Adam

"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...
Spamlet wrote:


You may have got off lightly too. Plenty of places seem to insist
that you
need new discs as well...

On accasions when the job has needed doing and I have been too busy
to
do it mself I've been charged up to £600 + VAT by a main dealer for
replacement of two disks and pads.

I could replace my car for £600:-)

But even a non mechanic like me can swap a set of front pads in the
street
Ummmm -- isn't that illegal????? )

in less than 1 hour using a trolley jack and a few basic tools. On a
ramp with air tools it is even easier.

I actually got the local garage to change the pads last time as it
was in for an MOT and it was minus 3 outside in the daytime. I
supplied the pads and they charged me half an hours labour. Well
worth the money in those temperatures. It was not much warmer in
their garage.

Adam

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Alex Heney saying
something like:

And even then, that seems exceptional. When I have looked it up
previously, it has always been suggested that "normal" life for a set
of front brake pads is around 15000 - 25000 miles, depending on the
style and type of driving.

I routinely get 60K+ from front pads, but then, I don't drive on the
brakes, touching them for every corner when it's quite unnecessary.

My Peugeot has just had its OEM pads and disks replaced at 26,000

On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 15:57:03 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Most people probably don't realise how much the servos (brakes or
steering) are assisting them these days. Yes you still have brakes
or
steering without 'em but boy do you have to put some serious
effort
into them. Brakes can catch people out as there can be enough
vacuum
in the system for the first application to be normal but once that
vacuum has been used...

...assuming they are vacuum assisted.

Lots of systems these days have hydraulic pumps I think. Easier to make
ABS work.

Vacuum pumps or hydraulic pumps can fail or there are other method(s)
of losing the servos.

There was a recent comment about getting tow from someone when the
engine had failed, but it had a smilely so I didn't comment at the
time.

I wouldn't want to geta tow in a modern car, it would be very hard
work not to keep ramming the towing vehicle and steering without the
servos.

Ramming might be avoided with a solid tow but I'm not sure I'd trust
the towing points strength or your average Halfrauds solid tow bar...
Doesn't help with the steering though.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 17 July, 13:52, (Steve Firth) wrote:
Spamlet wrote:

You may have got off lightly too. *Plenty of places seem to insist that you
need new discs as well...

TBH replacing pads and disks is such a simple job that it's aggravating
to see what garages charge. Charging 1.5 hours to replace pads is a
rip-off. That's too long even if the job was to replace both front and
rear pads. It takes about 30 - 45 minutes to change every single pad on
the cars that I own, and I'm fussy anout cleaning everything in sight
while I do it. It is the sort of job that anyone with reasonable DIY
knowledge could do. With 90 minutes to spare I actually changed all four
calipers and pads on one of my cars. After all, all it needs is to
undo/redo a total of eight to 12 bolts (depending on the vehicle) and a
willingness to get one's hands slightly mucky. I've changed everything
in that area of the vehicle (bearings, disks, pads, change of brake
fluid) in an afternoon taking lots of time off for tea and pondering.
After all I'm not in a hurry and not getting paid.

An hour is normally reasonable for 4 pads if the job is
straightforward. However rear shoes (where present) invariably take
far longer, and excessive corrosion can also make the job more
difficult. I must admit I'd struggle to change four pads in 30 minutes
(7.5 minutes per wheel), even if I was going like the clappers.



On accasions when the job has needed doing and I have been too busy to
do it mself I've been charged up to £600 + VAT by a main dealer for
replacement of two disks and pads. If I buy all four disks, calipers and
pads from a motor factors, using original parts, I can expect to pay
£260 for the parts. The price of the calipers includes the brake pads.
The main dealer marks these prices up to three times the parts cost and
then charges almost as much again to fit them.

Lol. You wuz robbed, mate.

"geoff" wrote in message
...

Think how much I've saved in nearly 40 years of driving

Bet denboi has the whole 5 star plan

It comes with the car.
Only used it once when I got the AA to come and change the tyre while I sat
the other side of the crash barrier wandering if the next truck was going to
hit him.

"geoff" wrote in message
...


Dennis stated only a few days ago that he did 30,000 miles last year

Surely the rest of the world must be wrong

No its just that you are thick.
If you need me to explain it then just ask.


That is quite a wide range, and there will always be people outside
even that, but more than three times the upper end of the "normal"
range seems very high.

--
geoff

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
a GOOD handbrake will lock the rear wheels. Typically .3-.5g.

More cr@p. A good handbrake will easily lock the rear wheels but you
won't have enough grip to get .5G.

You're talking FWD here where the wheels lock because there's no weight
over them. On a RWD car with 50:50 weight distribution, you could
theoretically get 0.5g, as there is no weight transfer when braking just
the rear wheels. As indeed I did get with a Rover P6.

If you get .5G then the weight will transfer to the front and the rear
wheels will lock, then the weight will transfer back.
This will repeat at some frequency dependent on the car.


Also you can expect the rear end to slide with the wheels locked as
anyone that has done so would be able to tell you. Why don't you go and
try it somewhere and see before you make stuff up.

Perhaps you'd tell me about any modern RWD car which will lock the rear
wheels using the handbrake.

A smart, maybe.

My BMW which has separate drums for the
parking brake certainly won't. It is purely for parking - not emergency
use. My SD1 Rover with 10 in rear drums won't lock the wheels using the
handbrake either. But achieves 0.35g at MOT time.

On a static rolling road, not under driving conditions.

"Ste" wrote in message
...

On accasions when the job has needed doing and I have been too busy to
do it mself I've been charged up to £600 + VAT by a main dealer for
replacement of two disks and pads. If I buy all four disks, calipers and
pads from a motor factors, using original parts, I can expect to pay
£260 for the parts. The price of the calipers includes the brake pads.
The main dealer marks these prices up to three times the parts cost and
then charges almost as much again to fit them.

Lol. You wuz robbed, mate.

Without a doubt, the main dealer I use doesn't charge any extra on parts and
is frequently cheaper than the "genuine" parts sold at the motor factors.

In article , Steve Firth
scribeth thus
Spamlet wrote:


You may have got off lightly too. Plenty of places seem to insist that you
need new discs as well...

TBH replacing pads and disks is such a simple job that it's aggravating
to see what garages charge. Charging 1.5 hours to replace pads is a
rip-off.

In the instance quoted how do you know that something wasn't sized or
needed some other work doing that might have taken that bit longer?..

That's too long even if the job was to replace both front and
rear pads. It takes about 30 - 45 minutes to change every single pad on
the cars that I own, and I'm fussy anout cleaning everything in sight
while I do it. It is the sort of job that anyone with reasonable DIY
knowledge could do. With 90 minutes to spare I actually changed all four
calipers and pads on one of my cars. After all, all it needs is to
undo/redo a total of eight to 12 bolts (depending on the vehicle) and a
willingness to get one's hands slightly mucky. I've changed everything
in that area of the vehicle (bearings, disks, pads, change of brake
fluid) in an afternoon taking lots of time off for tea and pondering.
After all I'm not in a hurry and not getting paid.

On accasions when the job has needed doing and I have been too busy to
do it mself I've been charged up to £600 + VAT by a main dealer for
replacement of two disks and pads. If I buy all four disks, calipers and
pads from a motor factors, using original parts, I can expect to pay
£260 for the parts. The price of the calipers includes the brake pads.
The main dealer marks these prices up to three times the parts cost and
then charges almost as much again to fit them.

Yes rather pricey..

Never mind, when the OP qualifies and is up to being a consultant then I
suppose she'll be grumbling about what main dealers charge;!!.
--
Tony Sayer

steve robinson wrote:


Some of those diagnostic tools aint cheap , many are vehicle specific
and you pay the manufacturers a licence fee every year.

You'll have to remind me which "diagnostic tools" are required to change
a brake pad.

Have you seen the price of a tow truck these days

Very few garages have them and those tend to be the ones with a contract
to recover vehicles from the motorway. About three contractors per
county and at present very few of them do routing vehicle servicing and
repairs.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "Dave Liquorice"
saying something like:

Twice I've been in a car that suffered brake failure of one side of a
dual circuit braking system and guess what? - the pedal did buggerall
with the second circuit.

One assumes you did what anyone who "knows how to drive" would do. ie
press the pedal *far* harder than normal and if you run out travel,
or get close to running out of travel, pump it fast and hard.

Of course I did. Useless.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember The Natural Philosopher
saying something like:

Its taken me up to 4 hours to free up seized callipers, and seized brake
drums ..

The strange assumption is that old rusty cars that cost less to buy,
ought to cost less to fix....

Exactly. It's hardly the garage's fault the car is a ****heap with
seized bolts, calipers, etc.

On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 01:11:16 +0100, geoff wrote:

In message , Alex Heney
writes
On Fri, 16 Jul 2010 09:05:28 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:



"Alex Heney" wrote in message
...


No set of front brake pads would get near to lasting me a year at
present, from new. But I am driving 40,000 miles per year, which seems
unlikely for somebody who (from her other posts) is a pretty new
driver.

How do you manage to wear them so quickly?

By driving normally.


I have never managed to wear out a set of pads on a car yet and I do about
80,000 (about 3 years) miles before changing cars.


You must be driving almost entirely on motorways then.

And even then, that seems exceptional. When I have looked it up
previously, it has always been suggested that "normal" life for a set
of front brake pads is around 15000 - 25000 miles, depending on the
style and type of driving.

How can this be so?

Dennis stated only a few days ago that he did 30,000 miles last year


So last year was a little above average for him, but not much if 80K
is his normal amount over 3 years.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
Positive: Mistaken at the top of one's voice.
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 14:08:06 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote:

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Alex Heney saying
something like:

Slowing down using the gearbox is definitely bad practice and
uneconomic on fuel too.

Utter ****ing ********.

That is a very unusual way to say "completely correct".

Which he was..

You should *always* be in the right gear to accelerate away in.

Are you stupid enough to believe that comment had any relevance
whatsoever to the previous one?

Here's an idea - why don't you **** off?

So no answer then.

Probably you are that stupid.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
If it jams, force it. If it breaks, it needed replacing
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

On 17 Jul 2010 05:51:14 GMT, Adrian wrote:

Alex Heney gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying:

Since the tester isn't permitted to dismantle the car at all, the pad
thickness quite simply can't be checked on many cars.

The don't have to check for MOT. However there is a little hole in the
caliper where the pad thickness can be seen. All cars. No problem. On
some cars you don't even have to take the wheel off.

They *do* have to check at the MOT.

http://www.ukmot.com/3-5.asp#Text_top

Item f on that page.

Not quite so simple...
http://www.motinfo.gov.uk/htdocs/m4s03000501.htm
"A visual and physical check must be carried out on all mechanical
components _that are visible and accessible_"

Yes, but as Harry says, most modern cars do have them at least partly
visible.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
This mind intentionally left blank.
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

dennis@home wrote:

If you get .5G then the weight will transfer to the front and the rear
wheels will lock, then the weight will transfer back.
This will repeat at some frequency dependent on the car.


Not if the car has shock absorbers.

Which of course all legal cars do.

Andy

"Andy Champ" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:

If you get .5G then the weight will transfer to the front and the rear
wheels will lock, then the weight will transfer back.
This will repeat at some frequency dependent on the car.


Not if the car has shock absorbers.

The shock absorbers will not stop it happening.
The force is cyclical and the shock absorbers are part of what determines
the frequency.

Andy Champ wrote:
dennis@home wrote:

If you get .5G then the weight will transfer to the front and the rear
wheels will lock, then the weight will transfer back.
This will repeat at some frequency dependent on the car.


Not if the car has shock absorbers.

Which of course all legal cars do.

Andy
well strictly not as MUCH if the car has shock absorbers. There are few
cars that are overdamped. Theres always a bit of 'overshoot and ring'

In message o.uk, Dave
Liquorice writes
On Fri, 16 Jul 2010 23:32:56 +0100, geoff wrote:

Anyway, I phoned around and found a chap who would do it for 60
quid.

once in 15 years, its not worth joining the RAC.

Always been my philosophy

Think how much I've saved in nearly 40 years of driving

How much does the lack of hassle cost in at?

No idea - not had it happen in 38 years


Try phoning around to find a chap to come out, recover you and do the
repair late on a Sunday night when you are 200 miles from home and
don't know the area or it's garages. Or if the car will take a day or
two to repair getting you home or to a hotel and a hire car
delivered... Both paid for.

A wage slave can just phone up and say "the cars bust, I won't be
in", it doesn't matter to them they'll still get paid(*). A
freelancer doesn't get paid unless they do the work.


The boss of a proper company just phones in and says he'll be late

get a less pikey job


--
geoff

On Jul 17, 8:52*pm, (Steve Firth) wrote:


Have you seen the price of a tow truck these days

Very few garages have them and those tend to be the ones with a contract
to recover vehicles from the motorway. About three contractors per
county and at present very few of them do routing vehicle servicing and
repairs.

Two out of three garages in our village have recovery trucks, the
third may have as well, but b=never seen it. Neither, as far as I
know, contracted to any of the national recovery services. All three
do servicing.

MBQ

Man at B&Q wrote:

On Jul 17, 8:52 pm, (Steve Firth) wrote:


Have you seen the price of a tow truck these days

Very few garages have them and those tend to be the ones with a contract
to recover vehicles from the motorway. About three contractors per
county and at present very few of them do routing vehicle servicing and
repairs.

Two out of three garages in our village have recovery trucks, the
third may have as well, but b=never seen it. Neither, as far as I
know, contracted to any of the national recovery services.

I wasn't talking about contracting to national recovery. Many small
garages contract to the police/HA to recover vehicles from the
motorways. Sadly both organisations have been "knobbled" and are
reducing the number of rota garages that are permitted to take the work.
This has led to a reduction in the number of garages with recovery
vehicles. If it hasn't hit your region yet then it probably will soon.


All three do servicing.

Whoopee.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Andy Champ wrote:
dennis@home wrote:

If you get .5G then the weight will transfer to the front and the
rear wheels will lock, then the weight will transfer back.
This will repeat at some frequency dependent on the car.


Not if the car has shock absorbers.

Which of course all legal cars do.

Andy
well strictly not as MUCH if the car has shock absorbers. There are few
cars that are overdamped. Theres always a bit of 'overshoot and ring'

I'll be amazed if you can trigger it just by pulling the handbrake. It
would require a very large polar moment. I've only ever once felt it
getting out of hand on a bumpy road.

Andy

Andy Champ wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Andy Champ wrote:
dennis@home wrote:

If you get .5G then the weight will transfer to the front and the
rear wheels will lock, then the weight will transfer back.
This will repeat at some frequency dependent on the car.


Not if the car has shock absorbers.

Which of course all legal cars do.

Andy
well strictly not as MUCH if the car has shock absorbers. There are
few cars that are overdamped. Theres always a bit of 'overshoot and ring'

I'll be amazed if you can trigger it just by pulling the handbrake. It
would require a very large polar moment. I've only ever once felt it
getting out of hand on a bumpy road.


MM, I'll take you for a spin one day...;-)

However the point is well made that about 60% of the car weight tends to
transfer to the front under braking. for a 50/50 split before. So rear
wheels locked is never going to be that brilliant.



Andy

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

MM, I'll take you for a spin one day...;-)

However the point is well made that about 60% of the car weight tends to
transfer to the front under braking. for a 50/50 split before. So rear
wheels locked is never going to be that brilliant.


Oh, spins I can do. Just not in that axis I know my wife's car
(tall, short hatchback) will just lock the rears, no oscillation;
mine's lower and longer so I have no doubt it will do the same.

Andy