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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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trailer brakes
I had dropped a project and just finished it this weekend. Only one thing
left on the big trailer, making the ramps narrower so I can load the forklift. Anyway, I now have a trailer brake controller based on brake line hydraulic pressure. http://www.brakecontroller.com/maxbrake.htm The trailer brakes come on just before the truck. For those that don't remember every one of my projects, this is a 24,000 lb. double dually thirty six foot trailer. My question, this unit has a gain setting 0 to 1000 for weight on the trailer. Set it too high and you skid the trailer tires. Other than looking for smoke, is there a good way to set this gain? I want to come up with a really good number for empty, and also only the forklift on. Karl |
#2
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trailer brakes
Karl Townsend wrote: I had dropped a project and just finished it this weekend. Only one thing left on the big trailer, making the ramps narrower so I can load the forklift. Anyway, I now have a trailer brake controller based on brake line hydraulic pressure. http://www.brakecontroller.com/maxbrake.htm The trailer brakes come on just before the truck. For those that don't remember every one of my projects, this is a 24,000 lb. double dually thirty six foot trailer. My question, this unit has a gain setting 0 to 1000 for weight on the trailer. Set it too high and you skid the trailer tires. Other than looking for smoke, is there a good way to set this gain? I want to come up with a really good number for empty, and also only the forklift on. Karl You want the gain set so that the trailer brakes are in balance with the truck brakes, i.e. the trailer hitch isn't being slammed forward or yanked backward when braking. You want both the truck brakes and the trailer brakes sharing the braking load or else you will have excessive wear on one or the other as well as poor to dangerous handling. What did you find on the truck's GCRW? I seem to recall that this trailer was well over your trucks capacity if fully loaded, and close to capacity with the trailer empty. This is not something to screw around with, especially if you are commercial. Towing a camper that is a couple percent over your GCRW isn't likely to be a problem, but something that is considered commercial and is substantially over GCRW will get you in a lot of trouble. That trailer will put you over into the 26,000#+ commercial range without a lot of cargo on it, and at the same time put you over your GCRW by 4,000#+. |
#3
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trailer brakes
On 2010-06-21, Karl Townsend wrote:
I had dropped a project and just finished it this weekend. Only one thing left on the big trailer, making the ramps narrower so I can load the forklift. Anyway, I now have a trailer brake controller based on brake line hydraulic pressure. http://www.brakecontroller.com/maxbrake.htm The trailer brakes come on just before the truck. For those that don't remember every one of my projects, this is a 24,000 lb. double dually thirty six foot trailer. My question, this unit has a gain setting 0 to 1000 for weight on the trailer. Set it too high and you skid the trailer tires. Other than looking for smoke, is there a good way to set this gain? I want to come up with a really good number for empty, and also only the forklift on. I would start with setting it low, and then increasing it so that when you hit the brake, the trailer pulls back, but gently. Note that everything depends on how hard you brake also. I have electric brakes on my trailer. I figured that for empty it should be 1.4, for 1.5-2k lbs it should be 2 or so, for 4000 lbs it should be 3.4 or so. i |
#4
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trailer brakes
I would start with setting it low, and then increasing it so that when you hit the brake, the trailer pulls back, but gently. Note that everything depends on how hard you brake also. I have electric brakes on my trailer. I figured that for empty it should be 1.4, for 1.5-2k lbs it should be 2 or so, for 4000 lbs it should be 3.4 or so. i In other words, just go by feel. I guess i figured that's the only way. Karl |
#5
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trailer brakes
"Pete C." wrote in message ter.com... Karl Townsend wrote: I had dropped a project and just finished it this weekend. Only one thing left on the big trailer, making the ramps narrower so I can load the forklift. Anyway, I now have a trailer brake controller based on brake line hydraulic pressure. http://www.brakecontroller.com/maxbrake.htm The trailer brakes come on just before the truck. For those that don't remember every one of my projects, this is a 24,000 lb. double dually thirty six foot trailer. My question, this unit has a gain setting 0 to 1000 for weight on the trailer. Set it too high and you skid the trailer tires. Other than looking for smoke, is there a good way to set this gain? I want to come up with a really good number for empty, and also only the forklift on. Karl You want the gain set so that the trailer brakes are in balance with the truck brakes, i.e. the trailer hitch isn't being slammed forward or yanked backward when braking. You want both the truck brakes and the trailer brakes sharing the braking load or else you will have excessive wear on one or the other as well as poor to dangerous handling. What did you find on the truck's GCRW? I seem to recall that this trailer was well over your trucks capacity if fully loaded, and close to capacity with the trailer empty. This is not something to screw around with, especially if you are commercial. Towing a camper that is a couple percent over your GCRW isn't likely to be a problem, but something that is considered commercial and is substantially over GCRW will get you in a lot of trouble. That trailer will put you over into the 26,000#+ commercial range without a lot of cargo on it, and at the same time put you over your GCRW by 4,000#+. Yep, this is a back road only unit if I'm up to what the tires can carry without popping. But I do want to run the highways when hauling only a forklift or payloads under 10,000. You're like Iggy's advice, "Go by feel". I was hoping for a bit more, but I guess I'm not surprised. Karl |
#6
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trailer brakes
Karl Townsend wrote: "Pete C." wrote in message ter.com... Karl Townsend wrote: I had dropped a project and just finished it this weekend. Only one thing left on the big trailer, making the ramps narrower so I can load the forklift. Anyway, I now have a trailer brake controller based on brake line hydraulic pressure. http://www.brakecontroller.com/maxbrake.htm The trailer brakes come on just before the truck. For those that don't remember every one of my projects, this is a 24,000 lb. double dually thirty six foot trailer. My question, this unit has a gain setting 0 to 1000 for weight on the trailer. Set it too high and you skid the trailer tires. Other than looking for smoke, is there a good way to set this gain? I want to come up with a really good number for empty, and also only the forklift on. Karl You want the gain set so that the trailer brakes are in balance with the truck brakes, i.e. the trailer hitch isn't being slammed forward or yanked backward when braking. You want both the truck brakes and the trailer brakes sharing the braking load or else you will have excessive wear on one or the other as well as poor to dangerous handling. What did you find on the truck's GCRW? I seem to recall that this trailer was well over your trucks capacity if fully loaded, and close to capacity with the trailer empty. This is not something to screw around with, especially if you are commercial. Towing a camper that is a couple percent over your GCRW isn't likely to be a problem, but something that is considered commercial and is substantially over GCRW will get you in a lot of trouble. That trailer will put you over into the 26,000#+ commercial range without a lot of cargo on it, and at the same time put you over your GCRW by 4,000#+. Yep, this is a back road only unit if I'm up to what the tires can carry without popping. But I do want to run the highways when hauling only a forklift or payloads under 10,000. You're like Iggy's advice, "Go by feel". I was hoping for a bit more, but I guess I'm not surprised. Ok, install a load cell on the hitch assembly so you can measure the forces on it during braking and then adjust it so there is between zero and a small negative force on it during braking (trailer brakes leading). |
#7
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trailer brakes
Karl sez: In other words, just go by feel. I guess i figured that's the only way.
Good call, Karl ! As in most mechanical endeavors, one is usually well guided by his own intuition.. Bob Swinney "Karl Townsend" wrote in message anews.com... I would start with setting it low, and then increasing it so that when you hit the brake, the trailer pulls back, but gently. Note that everything depends on how hard you brake also. I have electric brakes on my trailer. I figured that for empty it should be 1.4, for 1.5-2k lbs it should be 2 or so, for 4000 lbs it should be 3.4 or so. i Karl |
#8
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trailer brakes
On 06/21/2010 04:12 AM, Karl Townsend wrote:
I had dropped a project and just finished it this weekend. Only one thing left on the big trailer, making the ramps narrower so I can load the forklift. Anyway, I now have a trailer brake controller based on brake line hydraulic pressure. http://www.brakecontroller.com/maxbrake.htm The trailer brakes come on just before the truck. For those that don't remember every one of my projects, this is a 24,000 lb. double dually thirty six foot trailer. My question, this unit has a gain setting 0 to 1000 for weight on the trailer. Set it too high and you skid the trailer tires. Other than looking for smoke, is there a good way to set this gain? I want to come up with a really good number for empty, and also only the forklift on. Karl I diddle with mine until it "feels right". My trailer's brakes are odd, in that they start normal, then wind up harder and harder, so I have to pulse the truck brakes if I'm trying to stop gently. So "feels right" is a quite perceptible difference from the trailer brakes at first, but no smoke from the tires unless I've been on the brakes for several seconds. With better brakes on the trailer, "feels right" would be an attempt to nicely balance the brakes between truck and trailer. It's easy to do once you've done it a few times -- I wouldn't spend much time coming up with an algorithm for it. -- Tim Wescott Control system and signal processing consulting www.wescottdesign.com |
#9
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trailer brakes
On 2010-06-21, Karl Townsend wrote:
I would start with setting it low, and then increasing it so that when you hit the brake, the trailer pulls back, but gently. Note that everything depends on how hard you brake also. I have electric brakes on my trailer. I figured that for empty it should be 1.4, for 1.5-2k lbs it should be 2 or so, for 4000 lbs it should be 3.4 or so. i In other words, just go by feel. I guess i figured that's the only way. What I described is not exactly go by feel, it is a procedure. i |
#10
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trailer brakes
On Jun 21, 10:38*am, "Karl Townsend"
wrote: ... In other words, just go by feel. I guess i figured that's the only way. Karl Do you have a dirt road to practice on? Maybe have someone with a cell phone watch and tell you which wheels lock up first. jsw |
#11
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trailer brakes
"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message ... On Jun 21, 10:38 am, "Karl Townsend" wrote: ... In other words, just go by feel. I guess i figured that's the only way. Karl Do you have a dirt road to practice on? Maybe have someone with a cell phone watch and tell you which wheels lock up first. jsw Good suggestion. i like it. Looks like I get the acid test next week. They just scrapped out a 20,000 lb. commercial laser where my son works. He gets to take it home. For this much weight, I'll have a follow car with flashers. I'm pretty sure max gain won't be too much. Karl |
#12
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trailer brakes
Karl Townsend wrote:
I had dropped a project and just finished it this weekend. Only one thing left on the big trailer, making the ramps narrower so I can load the forklift. Anyway, I now have a trailer brake controller based on brake line hydraulic pressure. http://www.brakecontroller.com/maxbrake.htm The trailer brakes come on just before the truck. For those that don't remember every one of my projects, this is a 24,000 lb. double dually thirty six foot trailer. My question, this unit has a gain setting 0 to 1000 for weight on the trailer. Set it too high and you skid the trailer tires. Other than looking for smoke, is there a good way to set this gain? I want to come up with a really good number for empty, and also only the forklift on. Karl I hope you have class A CDL to drive that trailer. It is an articulated vehicle over 18,000 lbs. and falls in the same category as a tractor trailer. John |
#13
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trailer brakes
What's that Lassie? You say that Karl Townsend fell down the old
rec.crafts.metalworking mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue by Mon, 21 Jun 2010 06:12:07 -0500: Anyway, I now have a trailer brake controller based on brake line hydraulic pressure. http://www.brakecontroller.com/maxbrake.htm The trailer brakes come on just before the truck. For those that don't remember every one of my projects, this is a 24,000 lb. double dually thirty six foot trailer. My question, this unit has a gain setting 0 to 1000 for weight on the trailer. Set it too high and you skid the trailer tires. Other than looking for smoke, is there a good way to set this gain? I want to come up with a really good number for empty, and also only the forklift on. Are the trailer brakes proportional to the tow trucks breaking force? If it is, then I would try going down a hill, and riding the brakes as you turn up the gain until you feel the slack in the coupler get taken up. You should be able to adjust the gain above and below the balance point and feel the coupler slack chatter back and forth. -- Dan H. northshore MA. |
#14
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trailer brakes
Looks like I get the acid test next week. They just scrapped out a 20,000
lb. commercial laser where my son works. He gets to take it home. Ooh, ooh, tell us (ok, me :-)) more! What kind of laser, what shape is it in, is he going to try to get it running? ----- Regards, Carl Ijames |
#15
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trailer brakes
"Carl Ijames" wrote in message ... Looks like I get the acid test next week. They just scrapped out a 20,000 lb. commercial laser where my son works. He gets to take it home. Ooh, ooh, tell us (ok, me :-)) more! What kind of laser, what shape is it in, is he going to try to get it running? His company was running "lights out" with this machine. There was a fire and the control wiring burnt up. As the machine was slated for replacement in a year, they scrapped it out. Somebody has to help get rid of this monster laser, might as well be us. the laser itself is only for 4x10 sheets up to 3/8 thick, but it includes a material handling system to feed off a stack of input and send the finished parts and scrap down a conveyor to a part pick and place unit. Karl |
#16
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trailer brakes
Karl Townsend wrote:
"Carl Ijames" wrote in message ... Looks like I get the acid test next week. They just scrapped out a 20,000 lb. commercial laser where my son works. He gets to take it home. Ooh, ooh, tell us (ok, me :-)) more! What kind of laser, what shape is it in, is he going to try to get it running? His company was running "lights out" with this machine. There was a fire and the control wiring burnt up. As the machine was slated for replacement in a year, they scrapped it out. Somebody has to help get rid of this monster laser, might as well be us. the laser itself is only for 4x10 sheets up to 3/8 thick, but it includes a material handling system to feed off a stack of input and send the finished parts and scrap down a conveyor to a part pick and place unit. Karl Oh man, Karl. That is going to be the all time best gloat - ever! -- Richard Lamb |
#17
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trailer brakes
On 2010-06-22, Karl Townsend wrote:
"Carl Ijames" wrote in message ... Looks like I get the acid test next week. They just scrapped out a 20,000 lb. commercial laser where my son works. He gets to take it home. Ooh, ooh, tell us (ok, me :-)) more! What kind of laser, what shape is it in, is he going to try to get it running? His company was running "lights out" with this machine. There was a fire and the control wiring burnt up. As the machine was slated for replacement in a year, they scrapped it out. Somebody has to help get rid of this monster laser, might as well be us. the laser itself is only for 4x10 sheets up to 3/8 thick, but it includes a material handling system to feed off a stack of input and send the finished parts and scrap down a conveyor to a part pick and place unit. Sounds exciting. What are you going to do with it? Part out? i |
#18
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trailer brakes
"Ignoramus3314" wrote in message ... On 2010-06-22, Karl Townsend wrote: "Carl Ijames" wrote in message ... Looks like I get the acid test next week. They just scrapped out a 20,000 lb. commercial laser where my son works. He gets to take it home. Ooh, ooh, tell us (ok, me :-)) more! What kind of laser, what shape is it in, is he going to try to get it running? His company was running "lights out" with this machine. There was a fire and the control wiring burnt up. As the machine was slated for replacement in a year, they scrapped it out. Somebody has to help get rid of this monster laser, might as well be us. the laser itself is only for 4x10 sheets up to 3/8 thick, but it includes a material handling system to feed off a stack of input and send the finished parts and scrap down a conveyor to a part pick and place unit. Sounds exciting. What are you going to do with it? Part out? i "The Kid" says it won't take me long to get it running again. He's always generous with my time. I haven't seen it yet, and I'm sure the key is if the head itself can be saved. The fire was not near this part. I should be able to get a laser running for less than you have in your CNC mill after selling off the handling system and Mazatrol control parts Karl |
#19
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trailer brakes
On 2010-06-22, Karl Townsend wrote:
"Ignoramus3314" wrote in message ... On 2010-06-22, Karl Townsend wrote: "Carl Ijames" wrote in message ... Looks like I get the acid test next week. They just scrapped out a 20,000 lb. commercial laser where my son works. He gets to take it home. Ooh, ooh, tell us (ok, me :-)) more! What kind of laser, what shape is it in, is he going to try to get it running? His company was running "lights out" with this machine. There was a fire and the control wiring burnt up. As the machine was slated for replacement in a year, they scrapped it out. Somebody has to help get rid of this monster laser, might as well be us. the laser itself is only for 4x10 sheets up to 3/8 thick, but it includes a material handling system to feed off a stack of input and send the finished parts and scrap down a conveyor to a part pick and place unit. Sounds exciting. What are you going to do with it? Part out? i "The Kid" says it won't take me long to get it running again. He's always generous with my time. I haven't seen it yet, and I'm sure the key is if the head itself can be saved. The fire was not near this part. I should be able to get a laser running for less than you have in your CNC mill after selling off the handling system and Mazatrol control parts Sounds cool. Without the handling system, it is just a glorified XY table moving a torch, right? I am slowly progressing with the mill, adding 220v 1 phase wiring, VFD etc. My kids are really generous with my time also, I am only free after putting them to bed at 10:30pm. i |
#20
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trailer brakes
On 6/21/2010 10:03 PM, John wrote:
I hope you have class A CDL to drive that trailer. It is an articulated vehicle over 18,000 lbs. and falls in the same category as a tractor trailer. John Aye, but you only need the CDL if your driving commercially. If wanted, any bloke could go out and buy a semi with a trailer and as long as it was for personal use only there is no need for a CDL. Scary eh? heh |
#21
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trailer brakes
On 2010-06-22, tnik wrote:
On 6/21/2010 10:03 PM, John wrote: I hope you have class A CDL to drive that trailer. It is an articulated vehicle over 18,000 lbs. and falls in the same category as a tractor trailer. Aye, but you only need the CDL if your driving commercially. If wanted, any bloke could go out and buy a semi with a trailer and as long as it was for personal use only there is no need for a CDL. Scary eh? heh What is scarier is that police almost impounded the trailer that I was towing, with a Bridgeport mill, even though it was not commercial. I was lucky to have a laptop with me with Internet and I showed them the rules. i |
#22
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trailer brakes
On Jun 22, 8:51*am, Ignoramus9757
wrote: On 2010-06-22, tnik wrote: On 6/21/2010 10:03 PM, John wrote: I hope you have class A CDL to drive that trailer. It is an articulated vehicle over 18,000 lbs. and falls in the same category as a tractor trailer. Aye, but you only need the CDL if your driving commercially. If wanted, any bloke could go out and buy a semi with a trailer and as long as it was for personal use only there is no need for a CDL. Scary eh? heh What is scarier is that police almost impounded the trailer that I was towing, with a Bridgeport mill, even though it was not commercial. I was lucky to have a laptop with me with Internet and I showed them the rules. i Iggy, Upon what premise/law was he trying to impound the trailer? Maybe he wanted a Bridgeport mill? |
#23
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trailer brakes
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 22:40:42 -0500, "Karl Townsend"
wrote the following: "Carl Ijames" wrote in message ... Looks like I get the acid test next week. They just scrapped out a 20,000 lb. commercial laser where my son works. He gets to take it home. Ooh, ooh, tell us (ok, me :-)) more! What kind of laser, what shape is it in, is he going to try to get it running? His company was running "lights out" with this machine. There was a fire and the control wiring burnt up. As the machine was slated for replacement in a year, they scrapped it out. Somebody has to help get rid of this monster laser, might as well be us. the laser itself is only for 4x10 sheets up to 3/8 thick, but it includes a material handling system to feed off a stack of input and send the finished parts and scrap down a conveyor to a part pick and place unit. Very cool! What'll it cut? -- Peace of mind is that mental condition in which you have accepted the worst. -- Lin Yutang |
#24
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trailer brakes
Larry Jaques wrote: On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 22:40:42 -0500, "Karl Townsend" wrote the following: "Carl Ijames" wrote in message ... Looks like I get the acid test next week. They just scrapped out a 20,000 lb. commercial laser where my son works. He gets to take it home. Ooh, ooh, tell us (ok, me :-)) more! What kind of laser, what shape is it in, is he going to try to get it running? His company was running "lights out" with this machine. There was a fire and the control wiring burnt up. As the machine was slated for replacement in a year, they scrapped it out. Somebody has to help get rid of this monster laser, might as well be us. the laser itself is only for 4x10 sheets up to 3/8 thick, but it includes a material handling system to feed off a stack of input and send the finished parts and scrap down a conveyor to a part pick and place unit. Very cool! What'll it cut? A really big pizza... |
#25
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trailer brakes
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 09:38:29 -0500, "Karl Townsend"
wrote: I would start with setting it low, and then increasing it so that when you hit the brake, the trailer pulls back, but gently. Note that everything depends on how hard you brake also. I have electric brakes on my trailer. I figured that for empty it should be 1.4, for 1.5-2k lbs it should be 2 or so, for 4000 lbs it should be 3.4 or so. i In other words, just go by feel. I guess i figured that's the only way. Karl Risking not reading ahead and seeing this already covered, how about one of those RV back up cameras and a monitor so you could watch what's going on behind while you try different settings? Newb |
#26
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trailer brakes
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#27
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trailer brakes
"Karl Townsend" writes:
I would start with setting it low, and then increasing it so that when you hit the brake, the trailer pulls back, but gently. Note that everything depends on how hard you brake also. I have electric brakes on my trailer. I figured that for empty it should be 1.4, for 1.5-2k lbs it should be 2 or so, for 4000 lbs it should be 3.4 or so. i In other words, just go by feel. I guess i figured that's the only way. You need an ABS but it would be very non-trivial to add..... -- A host is a host from coast to & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433 |
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