I had dropped a project and just finished it this weekend. Only one thing
left on the big trailer, making the ramps narrower so I can load the
forklift.

Anyway, I now have a trailer brake controller based on brake line hydraulic
pressure.
http://www.brakecontroller.com/maxbrake.htm
The trailer brakes come on just before the truck. For those that don't
remember every one of my projects, this is a 24,000 lb. double dually
thirty six foot trailer.

My question, this unit has a gain setting 0 to 1000 for weight on the
trailer. Set it too high and you skid the trailer tires. Other than looking
for smoke, is there a good way to set this gain? I want to come up with a
really good number for empty, and also only the forklift on.

Karl

Karl Townsend wrote:

I had dropped a project and just finished it this weekend. Only one thing
left on the big trailer, making the ramps narrower so I can load the
forklift.

Anyway, I now have a trailer brake controller based on brake line hydraulic
pressure.
http://www.brakecontroller.com/maxbrake.htm
The trailer brakes come on just before the truck. For those that don't
remember every one of my projects, this is a 24,000 lb. double dually
thirty six foot trailer.

My question, this unit has a gain setting 0 to 1000 for weight on the
trailer. Set it too high and you skid the trailer tires. Other than looking
for smoke, is there a good way to set this gain? I want to come up with a
really good number for empty, and also only the forklift on.

Karl

You want the gain set so that the trailer brakes are in balance with the
truck brakes, i.e. the trailer hitch isn't being slammed forward or
yanked backward when braking. You want both the truck brakes and the
trailer brakes sharing the braking load or else you will have excessive
wear on one or the other as well as poor to dangerous handling.

What did you find on the truck's GCRW? I seem to recall that this
trailer was well over your trucks capacity if fully loaded, and close to
capacity with the trailer empty. This is not something to screw around
with, especially if you are commercial.

Towing a camper that is a couple percent over your GCRW isn't likely to
be a problem, but something that is considered commercial and is
substantially over GCRW will get you in a lot of trouble. That trailer
will put you over into the 26,000#+ commercial range without a lot of
cargo on it, and at the same time put you over your GCRW by 4,000#+.

On 2010-06-21, Karl Townsend wrote:
I had dropped a project and just finished it this weekend. Only one thing
left on the big trailer, making the ramps narrower so I can load the
forklift.

Anyway, I now have a trailer brake controller based on brake line hydraulic
pressure.
http://www.brakecontroller.com/maxbrake.htm
The trailer brakes come on just before the truck. For those that don't
remember every one of my projects, this is a 24,000 lb. double dually
thirty six foot trailer.

My question, this unit has a gain setting 0 to 1000 for weight on the
trailer. Set it too high and you skid the trailer tires. Other than looking
for smoke, is there a good way to set this gain? I want to come up with a
really good number for empty, and also only the forklift on.

I would start with setting it low, and then increasing it so that when
you hit the brake, the trailer pulls back, but gently. Note that
everything depends on how hard you brake also. I have electric brakes
on my trailer. I figured that for empty it should be 1.4, for 1.5-2k lbs
it should be 2 or so, for 4000 lbs it should be 3.4 or so.

i

I would start with setting it low, and then increasing it so that when
you hit the brake, the trailer pulls back, but gently. Note that
everything depends on how hard you brake also. I have electric brakes
on my trailer. I figured that for empty it should be 1.4, for 1.5-2k lbs
it should be 2 or so, for 4000 lbs it should be 3.4 or so.

i

In other words, just go by feel. I guess i figured that's the only way.

Karl

"Pete C." wrote in message
ter.com...

Karl Townsend wrote:

I had dropped a project and just finished it this weekend. Only one thing
left on the big trailer, making the ramps narrower so I can load the
forklift.

Anyway, I now have a trailer brake controller based on brake line
hydraulic
pressure.
http://www.brakecontroller.com/maxbrake.htm
The trailer brakes come on just before the truck. For those that don't
remember every one of my projects, this is a 24,000 lb. double dually
thirty six foot trailer.

My question, this unit has a gain setting 0 to 1000 for weight on the
trailer. Set it too high and you skid the trailer tires. Other than
looking
for smoke, is there a good way to set this gain? I want to come up with a
really good number for empty, and also only the forklift on.

Karl

You want the gain set so that the trailer brakes are in balance with the
truck brakes, i.e. the trailer hitch isn't being slammed forward or
yanked backward when braking. You want both the truck brakes and the
trailer brakes sharing the braking load or else you will have excessive
wear on one or the other as well as poor to dangerous handling.

What did you find on the truck's GCRW? I seem to recall that this
trailer was well over your trucks capacity if fully loaded, and close to
capacity with the trailer empty. This is not something to screw around
with, especially if you are commercial.

Towing a camper that is a couple percent over your GCRW isn't likely to
be a problem, but something that is considered commercial and is
substantially over GCRW will get you in a lot of trouble. That trailer
will put you over into the 26,000#+ commercial range without a lot of
cargo on it, and at the same time put you over your GCRW by 4,000#+.

Yep, this is a back road only unit if I'm up to what the tires can carry
without popping. But I do want to run the highways when hauling only a
forklift or payloads under 10,000. You're like Iggy's advice, "Go by feel".
I was hoping for a bit more, but I guess I'm not surprised.

Karl

Karl Townsend wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
ter.com...

Karl Townsend wrote:

I had dropped a project and just finished it this weekend. Only one thing
left on the big trailer, making the ramps narrower so I can load the
forklift.

Anyway, I now have a trailer brake controller based on brake line
hydraulic
pressure.
http://www.brakecontroller.com/maxbrake.htm
The trailer brakes come on just before the truck. For those that don't
remember every one of my projects, this is a 24,000 lb. double dually
thirty six foot trailer.

My question, this unit has a gain setting 0 to 1000 for weight on the
trailer. Set it too high and you skid the trailer tires. Other than
looking
for smoke, is there a good way to set this gain? I want to come up with a
really good number for empty, and also only the forklift on.

Karl

You want the gain set so that the trailer brakes are in balance with the
truck brakes, i.e. the trailer hitch isn't being slammed forward or
yanked backward when braking. You want both the truck brakes and the
trailer brakes sharing the braking load or else you will have excessive
wear on one or the other as well as poor to dangerous handling.

What did you find on the truck's GCRW? I seem to recall that this
trailer was well over your trucks capacity if fully loaded, and close to
capacity with the trailer empty. This is not something to screw around
with, especially if you are commercial.

Towing a camper that is a couple percent over your GCRW isn't likely to
be a problem, but something that is considered commercial and is
substantially over GCRW will get you in a lot of trouble. That trailer
will put you over into the 26,000#+ commercial range without a lot of
cargo on it, and at the same time put you over your GCRW by 4,000#+.

Yep, this is a back road only unit if I'm up to what the tires can carry
without popping. But I do want to run the highways when hauling only a
forklift or payloads under 10,000.

You're like Iggy's advice, "Go by feel".
I was hoping for a bit more, but I guess I'm not surprised.

Ok, install a load cell on the hitch assembly so you can measure the
forces on it during braking and then adjust it so there is between zero
and a small negative force on it during braking (trailer brakes
leading).

Karl sez: In other words, just go by feel. I guess i figured that's the only way.

Good call, Karl ! As in most mechanical endeavors, one is usually well guided by his own
intuition..

Bob Swinney

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
anews.com...


I would start with setting it low, and then increasing it so that when
you hit the brake, the trailer pulls back, but gently. Note that
everything depends on how hard you brake also. I have electric brakes
on my trailer. I figured that for empty it should be 1.4, for 1.5-2k lbs
it should be 2 or so, for 4000 lbs it should be 3.4 or so.

i


Karl

On 06/21/2010 04:12 AM, Karl Townsend wrote:
I had dropped a project and just finished it this weekend. Only one thing
left on the big trailer, making the ramps narrower so I can load the
forklift.

Anyway, I now have a trailer brake controller based on brake line hydraulic
pressure.
http://www.brakecontroller.com/maxbrake.htm
The trailer brakes come on just before the truck. For those that don't
remember every one of my projects, this is a 24,000 lb. double dually
thirty six foot trailer.

My question, this unit has a gain setting 0 to 1000 for weight on the
trailer. Set it too high and you skid the trailer tires. Other than looking
for smoke, is there a good way to set this gain? I want to come up with a
really good number for empty, and also only the forklift on.

Karl

I diddle with mine until it "feels right".

My trailer's brakes are odd, in that they start normal, then wind up
harder and harder, so I have to pulse the truck brakes if I'm trying to
stop gently. So "feels right" is a quite perceptible difference from
the trailer brakes at first, but no smoke from the tires unless I've
been on the brakes for several seconds. With better brakes on the
trailer, "feels right" would be an attempt to nicely balance the brakes
between truck and trailer.

It's easy to do once you've done it a few times -- I wouldn't spend much
time coming up with an algorithm for it.

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com

On 2010-06-21, Karl Townsend wrote:


I would start with setting it low, and then increasing it so that when
you hit the brake, the trailer pulls back, but gently. Note that
everything depends on how hard you brake also. I have electric brakes
on my trailer. I figured that for empty it should be 1.4, for 1.5-2k lbs
it should be 2 or so, for 4000 lbs it should be 3.4 or so.

i

In other words, just go by feel. I guess i figured that's the only way.

What I described is not exactly go by feel, it is a procedure.

i

On Jun 21, 10:38*am, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:
...
In other words, just go by feel. I guess i figured that's the only way.
Karl

Do you have a dirt road to practice on? Maybe have someone with a cell
phone watch and tell you which wheels lock up first.

jsw

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...
On Jun 21, 10:38 am, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:
...
In other words, just go by feel. I guess i figured that's the only way.
Karl

Do you have a dirt road to practice on? Maybe have someone with a cell
phone watch and tell you which wheels lock up first.

jsw

Good suggestion. i like it.

Looks like I get the acid test next week. They just scrapped out a 20,000
lb. commercial laser where my son works. He gets to take it home.

For this much weight, I'll have a follow car with flashers. I'm pretty sure
max gain won't be too much.

Karl

Karl Townsend wrote:
I had dropped a project and just finished it this weekend. Only one thing
left on the big trailer, making the ramps narrower so I can load the
forklift.

Anyway, I now have a trailer brake controller based on brake line hydraulic
pressure.
http://www.brakecontroller.com/maxbrake.htm
The trailer brakes come on just before the truck. For those that don't
remember every one of my projects, this is a 24,000 lb. double dually
thirty six foot trailer.

My question, this unit has a gain setting 0 to 1000 for weight on the
trailer. Set it too high and you skid the trailer tires. Other than looking
for smoke, is there a good way to set this gain? I want to come up with a
really good number for empty, and also only the forklift on.

Karl





I hope you have class A CDL to drive that trailer. It is an articulated
vehicle over 18,000 lbs. and falls in the same category as a tractor
trailer.


John

What's that Lassie? You say that Karl Townsend fell down the old
rec.crafts.metalworking mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue
by Mon, 21 Jun 2010 06:12:07 -0500:

Anyway, I now have a trailer brake controller based on brake line hydraulic
pressure.
http://www.brakecontroller.com/maxbrake.htm
The trailer brakes come on just before the truck. For those that don't
remember every one of my projects, this is a 24,000 lb. double dually
thirty six foot trailer.

My question, this unit has a gain setting 0 to 1000 for weight on the
trailer. Set it too high and you skid the trailer tires. Other than looking
for smoke, is there a good way to set this gain? I want to come up with a
really good number for empty, and also only the forklift on.

Are the trailer brakes proportional to the tow trucks breaking force?

If it is, then I would try going down a hill, and riding the brakes as
you turn up the gain until you feel the slack in the coupler get taken
up. You should be able to adjust the gain above and below the balance
point and feel the coupler slack chatter back and forth.
--

Dan H.
northshore MA.

Looks like I get the acid test next week. They just scrapped out a 20,000
lb. commercial laser where my son works. He gets to take it home.

Ooh, ooh, tell us (ok, me :-)) more! What kind of laser, what shape is it
in, is he going to try to get it running?

-----
Regards,
Carl Ijames

"Carl Ijames" wrote in message
...
Looks like I get the acid test next week. They just scrapped out a 20,000
lb. commercial laser where my son works. He gets to take it home.

Ooh, ooh, tell us (ok, me :-)) more! What kind of laser, what shape is it
in, is he going to try to get it running?

His company was running "lights out" with this machine. There was a fire and
the control wiring burnt up. As the machine was slated for replacement in a
year, they scrapped it out.

Somebody has to help get rid of this monster laser, might as well be us. the
laser itself is only for 4x10 sheets up to 3/8 thick, but it includes a
material handling system to feed off a stack of input and send the finished
parts and scrap down a conveyor to a part pick and place unit.

Karl

Karl Townsend wrote:
"Carl Ijames" wrote in message
...
Looks like I get the acid test next week. They just scrapped out a 20,000
lb. commercial laser where my son works. He gets to take it home.
Ooh, ooh, tell us (ok, me :-)) more! What kind of laser, what shape is it
in, is he going to try to get it running?

His company was running "lights out" with this machine. There was a fire and
the control wiring burnt up. As the machine was slated for replacement in a
year, they scrapped it out.

Somebody has to help get rid of this monster laser, might as well be us. the
laser itself is only for 4x10 sheets up to 3/8 thick, but it includes a
material handling system to feed off a stack of input and send the finished
parts and scrap down a conveyor to a part pick and place unit.

Karl





Oh man, Karl. That is going to be the all time best gloat - ever!

--

Richard Lamb

On 2010-06-22, Karl Townsend wrote:

"Carl Ijames" wrote in message
...
Looks like I get the acid test next week. They just scrapped out a 20,000
lb. commercial laser where my son works. He gets to take it home.

Ooh, ooh, tell us (ok, me :-)) more! What kind of laser, what shape is it
in, is he going to try to get it running?

His company was running "lights out" with this machine. There was a fire and
the control wiring burnt up. As the machine was slated for replacement in a
year, they scrapped it out.

Somebody has to help get rid of this monster laser, might as well be us. the
laser itself is only for 4x10 sheets up to 3/8 thick, but it includes a
material handling system to feed off a stack of input and send the finished
parts and scrap down a conveyor to a part pick and place unit.

Sounds exciting. What are you going to do with it? Part out?

i

"Ignoramus3314" wrote in message
...
On 2010-06-22, Karl Townsend wrote:

"Carl Ijames" wrote in message
...
Looks like I get the acid test next week. They just scrapped out a
20,000
lb. commercial laser where my son works. He gets to take it home.

Ooh, ooh, tell us (ok, me :-)) more! What kind of laser, what shape is
it
in, is he going to try to get it running?

His company was running "lights out" with this machine. There was a fire
and
the control wiring burnt up. As the machine was slated for replacement in
a
year, they scrapped it out.

Somebody has to help get rid of this monster laser, might as well be us.
the
laser itself is only for 4x10 sheets up to 3/8 thick, but it includes a
material handling system to feed off a stack of input and send the
finished
parts and scrap down a conveyor to a part pick and place unit.

Sounds exciting. What are you going to do with it? Part out?

i

"The Kid" says it won't take me long to get it running again. He's always
generous with my time. I haven't seen it yet, and I'm sure the key is if the
head itself can be saved. The fire was not near this part. I should be able
to get a laser running for less than you have in your CNC mill after selling
off the handling system and Mazatrol control parts

Karl

On 2010-06-22, Karl Townsend wrote:

"Ignoramus3314" wrote in message
...
On 2010-06-22, Karl Townsend wrote:

"Carl Ijames" wrote in message
...
Looks like I get the acid test next week. They just scrapped out a
20,000
lb. commercial laser where my son works. He gets to take it home.

Ooh, ooh, tell us (ok, me :-)) more! What kind of laser, what shape is
it
in, is he going to try to get it running?

His company was running "lights out" with this machine. There was a fire
and
the control wiring burnt up. As the machine was slated for replacement in
a
year, they scrapped it out.

Somebody has to help get rid of this monster laser, might as well be us.
the
laser itself is only for 4x10 sheets up to 3/8 thick, but it includes a
material handling system to feed off a stack of input and send the
finished
parts and scrap down a conveyor to a part pick and place unit.

Sounds exciting. What are you going to do with it? Part out?

i

"The Kid" says it won't take me long to get it running again. He's always
generous with my time. I haven't seen it yet, and I'm sure the key is if the
head itself can be saved. The fire was not near this part. I should be able
to get a laser running for less than you have in your CNC mill after selling
off the handling system and Mazatrol control parts

Sounds cool. Without the handling system, it is just a glorified XY
table moving a torch, right?

I am slowly progressing with the mill, adding 220v 1 phase wiring, VFD
etc. My kids are really generous with my time also, I am only free
after putting them to bed at 10:30pm.

i

On 6/21/2010 10:03 PM, John wrote:


I hope you have class A CDL to drive that trailer. It is an articulated
vehicle over 18,000 lbs. and falls in the same category as a tractor
trailer.


John

Aye, but you only need the CDL if your driving commercially. If wanted,
any bloke could go out and buy a semi with a trailer and as long as it
was for personal use only there is no need for a CDL.

Scary eh? heh

On 2010-06-22, tnik wrote:
On 6/21/2010 10:03 PM, John wrote:
I hope you have class A CDL to drive that trailer. It is an articulated
vehicle over 18,000 lbs. and falls in the same category as a tractor
trailer.

Aye, but you only need the CDL if your driving commercially. If wanted,
any bloke could go out and buy a semi with a trailer and as long as it
was for personal use only there is no need for a CDL.

Scary eh? heh

What is scarier is that police almost impounded the trailer that I was
towing, with a Bridgeport mill, even though it was not commercial. I
was lucky to have a laptop with me with Internet and I showed them the
rules.

i

On Jun 22, 8:51*am, Ignoramus9757
wrote:
On 2010-06-22, tnik wrote:

On 6/21/2010 10:03 PM, John wrote:
I hope you have class A CDL to drive that trailer. It is an articulated
vehicle over 18,000 lbs. and falls in the same category as a tractor
trailer.

Aye, but you only need the CDL if your driving commercially. If wanted,
any bloke could go out and buy a semi with a trailer and as long as it
was for personal use only there is no need for a CDL.

Scary eh? heh

What is scarier is that police almost impounded the trailer that I was
towing, with a Bridgeport mill, even though it was not commercial. I
was lucky to have a laptop with me with Internet and I showed them the
rules.

i

Iggy,

Upon what premise/law was he trying to impound the trailer?

Maybe he wanted a Bridgeport mill?

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 22:40:42 -0500, "Karl Townsend"
wrote the following:


"Carl Ijames" wrote in message
...
Looks like I get the acid test next week. They just scrapped out a 20,000
lb. commercial laser where my son works. He gets to take it home.

Ooh, ooh, tell us (ok, me :-)) more! What kind of laser, what shape is it
in, is he going to try to get it running?

His company was running "lights out" with this machine. There was a fire and
the control wiring burnt up. As the machine was slated for replacement in a
year, they scrapped it out.

Somebody has to help get rid of this monster laser, might as well be us. the
laser itself is only for 4x10 sheets up to 3/8 thick, but it includes a
material handling system to feed off a stack of input and send the finished
parts and scrap down a conveyor to a part pick and place unit.

Very cool! What'll it cut?

--
Peace of mind is that mental condition in which you have accepted the worst.
-- Lin Yutang

Larry Jaques wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 22:40:42 -0500, "Karl Townsend"
wrote the following:


"Carl Ijames" wrote in message
...
Looks like I get the acid test next week. They just scrapped out a 20,000
lb. commercial laser where my son works. He gets to take it home.

Ooh, ooh, tell us (ok, me :-)) more! What kind of laser, what shape is it
in, is he going to try to get it running?

His company was running "lights out" with this machine. There was a fire and
the control wiring burnt up. As the machine was slated for replacement in a
year, they scrapped it out.

Somebody has to help get rid of this monster laser, might as well be us. the
laser itself is only for 4x10 sheets up to 3/8 thick, but it includes a
material handling system to feed off a stack of input and send the finished
parts and scrap down a conveyor to a part pick and place unit.

Very cool! What'll it cut?

A really big pizza...

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 09:38:29 -0500, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:



I would start with setting it low, and then increasing it so that when
you hit the brake, the trailer pulls back, but gently. Note that
everything depends on how hard you brake also. I have electric brakes
on my trailer. I figured that for empty it should be 1.4, for 1.5-2k lbs
it should be 2 or so, for 4000 lbs it should be 3.4 or so.

i

In other words, just go by feel. I guess i figured that's the only way.

Karl


Risking not reading ahead and seeing this already covered, how about
one of those RV back up cameras and a monitor so you could watch
what's going on behind while you try different settings?

Newb

On 2010-06-22, wrote:
Risking not reading ahead and seeing this already covered, how about
one of those RV back up cameras and a monitor so you could watch
what's going on behind while you try different settings?

I heard about a clever invention called a "rearview mirror".

i

"Karl Townsend" writes:



I would start with setting it low, and then increasing it so that when
you hit the brake, the trailer pulls back, but gently. Note that
everything depends on how hard you brake also. I have electric brakes
on my trailer. I figured that for empty it should be 1.4, for 1.5-2k lbs
it should be 2 or so, for 4000 lbs it should be 3.4 or so.

i

In other words, just go by feel. I guess i figured that's the only way.

You need an ABS but it would be very non-trivial to add.....


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