Hi folks,

I am trying to teach a young lad how to set up binary addressable fire alarm
systems and no matter how I explain it, or how much I write it down or draw
it for him, he just can't seem to grasp the concept. Now I know it is the
way I'm trying teach him and not the way he learns (?) so I'm looking for
any suggestions on ways to get this principle over to him.

He's bright when it comes to learning everything else, so it must be the way
I'm doing it that has him confused. What it the simplest way to describe
this numbering system. I've even given him homework to do, using the binary
system to count to one hundred, but he still gets it wrong time and time
again.

He needs to know how the DIP switches are configured in each detector to
give them a unique number on the control panel. But I'm now tearing my hair
out trying to get it through to him. HELP !!!


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In uk.d-i-y, BigWallop wrote:
Hi folks,

I am trying to teach a young lad how to set up binary addressable fire alarm
systems and no matter how I explain it, or how much I write it down or draw
it for him, he just can't seem to grasp the concept. Now I know it is the
way I'm trying teach him and not the way he learns (?) so I'm looking for
any suggestions on ways to get this principle over to him.

He's bright when it comes to learning everything else, so it must be the way
I'm doing it that has him confused. What it the simplest way to describe
this numbering system. I've even given him homework to do, using the binary
system to count to one hundred, but he still gets it wrong time and time
again.

He needs to know how the DIP switches are configured in each detector to
give them a unique number on the control panel. But I'm now tearing my hair
out trying to get it through to him. HELP !!!

I don't know how many bits you're talking about, but consider supplying
him with a simple look-up table rather than trying to teach him the
system.

--
Mike Barnes

Mike Barnes wrote:


I am trying to teach a young lad how to set up binary addressable fire alarm
systems and no matter how I explain it, or how much I write it down or draw
it for him, he just can't seem to grasp the concept.
snip


I don't know how many bits you're talking about, but consider supplying
him with a simple look-up table rather than trying to teach him the
system.


I use a binary/hex/decimal calculator myself, whilst I know how to do
the conversions I just can't be bothered with it

Lee

--
Never summon Anything you can't banish.
-
To reply use lee.blaver and ntlworld com

In article , BigWallop
writes
Hi folks,

I am trying to teach a young lad how to set up binary addressable fire alarm
systems and no matter how I explain it, or how much I write it down or draw
it for him, he just can't seem to grasp the concept. Now I know it is the
way I'm trying teach him and not the way he learns (?) so I'm looking for
any suggestions on ways to get this principle over to him.

He's bright when it comes to learning everything else, so it must be the way
I'm doing it that has him confused. What it the simplest way to describe
this numbering system. I've even given him homework to do, using the binary
system to count to one hundred, but he still gets it wrong time and time
again.

He needs to know how the DIP switches are configured in each detector to
give them a unique number on the control panel. But I'm now tearing my hair
out trying to get it through to him. HELP !!!

I design DMX disco lighting which uses dip switches, and have to deal
with DJ's, who are not well known for their mental agility.

This is the way I explain it (your switch numbering might be different).
Switch 1 counts for 1.
Switch 2 counts for 2.
Switch 3 counts for 4.
Switch 4 counts for 8.
Switch 5 counts for 16.
Switch 6 counts for 32. (repeat for all your switches).

Look at the number you need to set. What's the biggest switch number
will fit into the number? example: 19, switch 6 is too big but switch 5
will fit.
Then take off the value of that switch. Example, take off the value of
switch 5, which is 16, leaving 3.
What's the next biggest switch number which fits into the left over
number? switch 2. Take off 2, leaving 1. Switch 1 fits, and there you
are, switches 5 2 and 1 are on.

Some people just can't do it. I eventually designed a website to work it
out for those people. It may or may not work for you depending how the
dip switches relate to the number.
http://www.tega.co.uk/calc.asp
--
Tim Mitchell

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:12:54 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:

He needs to know how the DIP switches are configured in each detector to
give them a unique number on the control panel. But I'm now tearing my hair
out trying to get it through to him. HELP !!!

Some people have mental blocks about this and lots of other things.

I'm the same when it comes to chemistry. I could never, ever, figure
out all those chemical symbols and so on - and yet everyone around me
had no problem at all.

You may have entered into a battle which you will never win.

PoP

"Mike Barnes" wrote in message
...
In uk.d-i-y, BigWallop wrote:
Hi folks,

I am trying to teach a young lad how to set up binary addressable fire
alarm
systems and no matter how I explain it, or how much I write it down or
draw
it for him, he just can't seem to grasp the concept. Now I know it is
the
way I'm trying teach him and not the way he learns (?) so I'm looking for
any suggestions on ways to get this principle over to him.

He's bright when it comes to learning everything else, so it must be the
way
I'm doing it that has him confused. What it the simplest way to describe
this numbering system. I've even given him homework to do, using the
binary
system to count to one hundred, but he still gets it wrong time and time
again.

He needs to know how the DIP switches are configured in each detector to
give them a unique number on the control panel. But I'm now tearing my
hair
out trying to get it through to him. HELP !!!

I don't know how many bits you're talking about, but consider supplying
him with a simple look-up table rather than trying to teach him the
system.

--
Mike Barnes

As I say Mike, I've given him tables to take home and work out how to make
the switch number 100 say, and he still gets it wrong most of the time. I'm
getting tired following him around or sending another guy out. He's making
the numbers up as he goes along I think. :-))


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"Lee Blaver" wrote in message
...
Mike Barnes wrote:


I am trying to teach a young lad how to set up binary addressable fire
alarm
systems and no matter how I explain it, or how much I write it down or
draw
it for him, he just can't seem to grasp the concept.
snip


I don't know how many bits you're talking about, but consider supplying
him with a simple look-up table rather than trying to teach him the
system.


I use a binary/hex/decimal calculator myself, whilst I know how to do
the conversions I just can't be bothered with it

Lee


I've given him a calculator to use when he needs to, and he knows how to
convert the decimal number into binary on it. But then he tells me it gets
him even more confused because the number that comes up on the screen is
just 1's and 0's and he doesn't know how to make the DIP switches look the
same as them.

I've even explained that when it shows a 1 it means it's ON, and similarly
when O it is OFF, but then he'll either turn it upside down or make a
balustrade of swapping it over to the switches themselves.

I'm now down to only a couple of hairs in my head, so to stop me going bald,
I think I'll leave him in the workshop. :-))


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"PoP" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:12:54 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:

He needs to know how the DIP switches are configured in each detector to
give them a unique number on the control panel. But I'm now tearing my
hair
out trying to get it through to him. HELP !!!

Some people have mental blocks about this and lots of other things.

I'm the same when it comes to chemistry. I could never, ever, figure
out all those chemical symbols and so on - and yet everyone around me
had no problem at all.

You may have entered into a battle which you will never win.

PoP


Aaaarrrrgggghhhh! It is getting to that stage PoP. I know he's bright and
I don't want to lose him on site because of this silly problem. I'll
persevere a bit longer with it I think and maybe just find a way of getting
him to pick it up.

Patience is a virtue and frustration is a real pain in proverbial. :-))


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"PoP" wrote
| Some people have mental blocks about this and lots of other things.
| I'm the same when it comes to chemistry. I could never, ever, figure
| out all those chemical symbols and so on - and yet everyone around me
| had no problem at all.

My chemistry teacher once assured my mother that I would pick up symbols and
valencies just as easily as I'd learned multiplication tables.

My mother looked at him and just said "but he never learnt them either"

Owain

"BigWallop" wrote
| I don't know how many bits you're talking about, but consider
| supplying him with a simple look-up table rather than trying
| to teach him the system.
| I've given him a calculator to use when he needs to, and he knows how to
| convert the decimal number into binary on it. But then he tells me it
gets
| him even more confused because the number that comes up on the screen is
| just 1's and 0's and he doesn't know how to make the DIP switches look the
| same as them.
| I've even explained that when it shows a 1 it means it's ON, and similarly
| when O it is OFF, but then he'll either turn it upside down or make a
| balustrade of swapping it over to the switches themselves.

Then you either give him a lookup table with ONs and OFFs in the same layout
as the DIPs on the detectors like (assuming ON is UP):

1 ON
OFF OFF

-----------------------------
2 ON
OFF OFF

-----------------------------
3 ON ON


-----------------------------
4 ON
OFF OFF
-----------------------------

OR you spend half-an-hour one evening setting all the dip switches on the
detectors to different, then writing in magic-marker the number in 'normal'
inside the cover, so Laddo just has to copy the 'normal' number off the
detector onto the plan or location list as he installs each one.

OR you spend an hour one evening, setting all the dip switches in the
detectors, writing the number in magic-marker inside the cover, making the
list of locations or marked up plan, so all Laddo has to do is put detector
318 in location 318 on the plan.

Owain

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:12:54 UTC, "BigWallop"
wrote:

I am trying to teach a young lad how to set up binary addressable fire alarm
systems and no matter how I explain it, or how much I write it down or draw
it for him, he just can't seem to grasp the concept. Now I know it is the
way I'm trying teach him and not the way he learns (?) so I'm looking for
any suggestions on ways to get this principle over to him.

If there are N switches, make 2^N pictures of the actual switch block.
Draw in the switches that are ON or OFF in each picture. Write a number
beside each picture.
--
Bob Eager
rde at tavi.co.uk
PC Server 325*4; PS/2s 9585, 8595, 9595*2, 8580*3,
P70...

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:12:54 UTC, "BigWallop"
wrote:

I am trying to teach a young lad how to set up binary addressable fire
alarm
systems and no matter how I explain it, or how much I write it down or
draw
it for him, he just can't seem to grasp the concept. Now I know it is
the
way I'm trying teach him and not the way he learns (?) so I'm looking
for
any suggestions on ways to get this principle over to him.

If there are N switches, make 2^N pictures of the actual switch block.
Draw in the switches that are ON or OFF in each picture. Write a number
beside each picture.
--
Bob Eager
rde at tavi.co.uk
PC Server 325*4; PS/2s 9585, 8595, 9595*2, 8580*3,
P70...


Now that's a good point Bob. But I'm now wondering how many pages of
drawings I'll have to make up if the system goes to the full ten switches.
:-))

9,999 detectors on one system is highly unlikely though, so I might give him
a try on this.

Thank you.


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"BigWallop" wrote in message
...

"Mike Barnes" wrote in message
...
....
I don't know how many bits you're talking about, but consider supplying
him with a simple look-up table rather than trying to teach him the
system.

--
Mike Barnes

As I say Mike, I've given him tables to take home and work out how to make
the switch number 100 say, and he still gets it wrong most of the time.

I think that what Mike is suggesting is a table with numbers 1 to 128
(assuming 8 switches) and a picture or diagram of the DIP switches in the
correct places for each number. It might take a bit of work to create it,
but, once done, you wouldn't need to teach anybody binary for them to be
able to set the switches properly.

Colin Bignell

"nightjar .uk.com" nightjar@insert my surname here wrote in message
. ..

"BigWallop" wrote in message
...

"Mike Barnes" wrote in message
...
...
I don't know how many bits you're talking about, but consider
supplying
him with a simple look-up table rather than trying to teach him the
system.

--
Mike Barnes

As I say Mike, I've given him tables to take home and work out how to
make
the switch number 100 say, and he still gets it wrong most of the time.

I think that what Mike is suggesting is a table with numbers 1 to 128
(assuming 8 switches) and a picture or diagram of the DIP switches in the
correct places for each number. It might take a bit of work to create it,
but, once done, you wouldn't need to teach anybody binary for them to be
able to set the switches properly.

Colin Bignell




Thanks Colin. I've already started this, but I'm running out of paper
already. :-))


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"Owain" wrote in message
...
"PoP" wrote
| Some people have mental blocks about this and lots of other things.
| I'm the same when it comes to chemistry. I could never, ever, figure
| out all those chemical symbols and so on - and yet everyone around me
| had no problem at all.

My chemistry teacher once assured my mother that I would pick up symbols
and
valencies just as easily as I'd learned multiplication tables.

My mother looked at him and just said "but he never learnt them either"

Owain



ROFL !!!


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"Owain" wrote in message
...
"BigWallop" wrote
| I don't know how many bits you're talking about, but consider
| supplying him with a simple look-up table rather than trying
| to teach him the system.
| I've given him a calculator to use when he needs to, and he knows how to
| convert the decimal number into binary on it. But then he tells me it
gets
| him even more confused because the number that comes up on the screen is
| just 1's and 0's and he doesn't know how to make the DIP switches look
the
| same as them.
| I've even explained that when it shows a 1 it means it's ON, and
similarly
| when O it is OFF, but then he'll either turn it upside down or make a
| balustrade of swapping it over to the switches themselves.

Then you either give him a lookup table with ONs and OFFs in the same
layout
as the DIPs on the detectors like (assuming ON is UP):

1 ON
OFF OFF

-----------------------------
2 ON
OFF OFF

-----------------------------
3 ON ON


-----------------------------
4 ON
OFF OFF
-----------------------------

OR you spend half-an-hour one evening setting all the dip switches on the
detectors to different, then writing in magic-marker the number in
'normal'
inside the cover, so Laddo just has to copy the 'normal' number off the
detector onto the plan or location list as he installs each one.

OR you spend an hour one evening, setting all the dip switches in the
detectors, writing the number in magic-marker inside the cover, making the
list of locations or marked up plan, so all Laddo has to do is put
detector
318 in location 318 on the plan.

Owain



One engineer spent all day doing this for him on one job, but when he went
back to commission it he still found detectors in the wrong place.

With the materials mostly being delivered direct to site in a big box, it's
not really practical to take all the heads out and set them up for him. I
just wish I could make him understand that it can only be ON (1) or OFF (0)
and that the base number is two. But this is where he gets confused. He
says that "If the base number is 2, then why is there only zero's and
one's".

Aaaarrrrggghhhh !!!!


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BigWallop wrote:

Now that's a good point Bob. But I'm now wondering how many pages of
drawings I'll have to make up if the system goes to the full ten switches.
:-))

9,999 detectors on one system is highly unlikely though, so I might give him
a try on this.

What is the likely highest number?

I agree that he clearly has a mental block, and the anxiety induced by
constantly getting it wrong (and knowning that you know) will be making
it worse.

You definately need to make a fresh start, beginning with what he can
do and feels confident with, and building on that.

I'd prepare sheets with drawings of actual switch settings and the
associated numbers. On A4 sheets in landscape you ought to be able to
to get 8 diagrams across the page in a line. So the first line will
have 0-7, the second 8-15 etc.

You might get 16 lines to a sheet so that would allow 0-255 on a
double side which could be laminated. With luck, he may work out
the pattern for himself, but don't push it. Otherwise limit his
responsibilities to jobs which are within his capabilities using
the crib sheet.

Nick

BigWallop wrote:

He needs to know how the DIP switches are configured in each detector to
give them a unique number on the control panel. But I'm now tearing my hair
out trying to get it through to him. HELP !!!

I would go for either printing up a little booklet of numbers 0 to 1023
and the associated switch positions, or finding something programmable
(like an old Psion series 3, or even one of those nice new Java
compatible mobile phones) and knocking up a little program to do the
conversion for him on the fly with a pictorial output.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
BigWallop wrote:


Thanks Colin. I've already started this, but I'm running out of paper
already. :-))


Ahem :-)


0 00000000
1 00000001
2 00000010
3 00000011
4 00000100
5 00000101
6 00000110
7 00000111
8 00001000
9 00001001
10 00001010
11 00001011
12 00001100
13 00001101
14 00001110
15 00001111
16 00010000
17 00010001
18 00010010
19 00010011
20 00010100
21 00010101
22 00010110
23 00010111
24 00011000
25 00011001
26 00011010
27 00011011
28 00011100
29 00011101
30 00011110
31 00011111
32 00100000
33 00100001
34 00100010
35 00100011
36 00100100
37 00100101
38 00100110
39 00100111
40 00101000
41 00101001
42 00101010
43 00101011
44 00101100
45 00101101
46 00101110
47 00101111
48 00110000
49 00110001
50 00110010
51 00110011
52 00110100
53 00110101
54 00110110
55 00110111
56 00111000
57 00111001
58 00111010
59 00111011
60 00111100
61 00111101
62 00111110
63 00111111
64 01000000
65 01000001
66 01000010
67 01000011
68 01000100
69 01000101
70 01000110
71 01000111
72 01001000
73 01001001
74 01001010
75 01001011
76 01001100
77 01001101
78 01001110
79 01001111
80 01010000
81 01010001
82 01010010
83 01010011
84 01010100
85 01010101
86 01010110
87 01010111
88 01011000
89 01011001
90 01011010
91 01011011
92 01011100
93 01011101
94 01011110
95 01011111
96 01100000
97 01100001
98 01100010
99 01100011
100 01100100
101 01100101
102 01100110
103 01100111
104 01101000
105 01101001
106 01101010
107 01101011
108 01101100
109 01101101
110 01101110
111 01101111
112 01110000
113 01110001
114 01110010
115 01110011
116 01110100
117 01110101
118 01110110
119 01110111
120 01111000
121 01111001
122 01111010
123 01111011
124 01111100
125 01111101
126 01111110
127 01111111

"G.W. Walker" wrote in message
...
In article ,
BigWallop wrote:


Thanks Colin. I've already started this, but I'm running out of paper
already. :-))


Ahem :-)


0 00000000
1 00000001
2 00000010
3 00000011
4 00000100
5 00000101
snipped
124 01111100
125 01111101
126 01111110
127 01111111



Been there. Done all this for him. But he still doesn't grasp the concept.


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In article , G.W. Walker
writes
In article ,
BigWallop wrote:


Thanks Colin. I've already started this, but I'm running out of paper
already. :-))


Ahem :-)


0 00000000
1 00000001
2 00000010

.... translating this to the actual switches is not that straight forward
though. Switch 1 (the least significant bit) is usually on the left not
the right. And people can't work out that 0 is "OFF" and 1 is "ON", or
indeed which way the switch has to be for off and on.

--
Tim Mitchell

"Nick Nelson" wrote in message
...


BigWallop wrote:

Now that's a good point Bob. But I'm now wondering how many pages of
drawings I'll have to make up if the system goes to the full ten
switches.
:-))

9,999 detectors on one system is highly unlikely though, so I might give
him
a try on this.

What is the likely highest number?

I agree that he clearly has a mental block, and the anxiety induced by
constantly getting it wrong (and knowning that you know) will be making
it worse.

You definately need to make a fresh start, beginning with what he can
do and feels confident with, and building on that.

I'd prepare sheets with drawings of actual switch settings and the
associated numbers. On A4 sheets in landscape you ought to be able to
to get 8 diagrams across the page in a line. So the first line will
have 0-7, the second 8-15 etc.

You might get 16 lines to a sheet so that would allow 0-255 on a
double side which could be laminated. With luck, he may work out
the pattern for himself, but don't push it. Otherwise limit his
responsibilities to jobs which are within his capabilities using
the crib sheet.

Nick


Thanks for this reply Nick. Maybe I've just pushed it to far this passed
couple of weeks and he needs a rest from it. I'll see what I can do about
the drawings for him, and maybe make a point of personally being with him on
more of sites to see if I can spot where the failing is coming from.

Thank you sir. You've made me sit back and relax a bit more on this. I
knew it was me that was at fault somewhere here. I'm being to pushy. :-))


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In article ,
BigWallop wrote:

"G.W. Walker" wrote in message
...
In article ,
BigWallop wrote:


Thanks Colin. I've already started this, but I'm running out of paper
already. :-))


Ahem :-)


0 00000000
1 00000001
2 00000010
3 00000011
4 00000100
5 00000101
snipped
124 01111100
125 01111101
126 01111110
127 01111111



Been there. Done all this for him. But he still doesn't grasp the concept.

Ah well, it was worth a go :-)

Maybe he's just getting confused by the terminology, which
is why he's wondering why it's base 2 when there are no 2s,
just ones and zeros? Are there any software learning tools
which might help him I wonder?

G.

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:02:22 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:


"G.W. Walker" wrote in message
...

0 00000000
1 00000001
2 00000010
3 00000011
4 00000100
5 00000101
snipped
124 01111100
125 01111101
126 01111110
127 01111111



Been there. Done all this for him. But he still doesn't grasp the concept.

I think, then, that you can conclude that he doesn't have the
intellectual capability to do this task ...

What "concept" are you trying to convey, BTW? That code 124 is
represented as binary 01111100, or that it should be set up as OFF ON
ON ON ON ON OFF OFF?

Julian

--
Julian Fowler
julian (at) bellevue-barn (dot) org (dot) uk

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
BigWallop wrote:

He needs to know how the DIP switches are configured in each detector to
give them a unique number on the control panel. But I'm now tearing my
hair
out trying to get it through to him. HELP !!!

I would go for either printing up a little booklet of numbers 0 to 1023
and the associated switch positions, or finding something programmable
(like an old Psion series 3, or even one of those nice new Java
compatible mobile phones) and knocking up a little program to do the
conversion for him on the fly with a pictorial output.

--
Cheers,

John.


But that's the rub John. He has a calculator that converts decimal to
binary for him, and he knows how to work it, but he can't grasp that the
number showing on the screen is the positions the switches should be in.
It's is something that is getting to him, that doesn't want, or can't, see
the translation. Weird ! :-))


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"G.W. Walker" wrote in message
...
In article ,
BigWallop wrote:

"G.W. Walker" wrote in message
...
In article ,
BigWallop wrote:


Thanks Colin. I've already started this, but I'm running out of paper
already. :-))


Ahem :-)


0 00000000
1 00000001
2 00000010
3 00000011
4 00000100
5 00000101
snipped
124 01111100
125 01111101
126 01111110
127 01111111



Been there. Done all this for him. But he still doesn't grasp the
concept.

Ah well, it was worth a go :-)

Maybe he's just getting confused by the terminology, which
is why he's wondering why it's base 2 when there are no 2s,
just ones and zeros? Are there any software learning tools
which might help him I wonder?

G.



Thanks for this suggestion G. Now on my list for things to look out for
while surfing the web.


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In article ,
Tim Mitchell wrote:
In article , G.W. Walker
writes
In article ,
BigWallop wrote:


Thanks Colin. I've already started this, but I'm running out of paper
already. :-))


Ahem :-)


0 00000000
1 00000001
2 00000010

... translating this to the actual switches is not that straight forward
though. Switch 1 (the least significant bit) is usually on the left not
the right. And people can't work out that 0 is "OFF" and 1 is "ON", or
indeed which way the switch has to be for off and on.

Oh, I can make it read the other way around, and print
ON/OFF rather than 1/0, if you like. Joys of MATLAB :-)

G.

"Julian Fowler" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:02:22 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:


"G.W. Walker" wrote in message
...

0 00000000
1 00000001
2 00000010
3 00000011
4 00000100
5 00000101
snipped
124 01111100
125 01111101
126 01111110
127 01111111



Been there. Done all this for him. But he still doesn't grasp the
concept.

I think, then, that you can conclude that he doesn't have the
intellectual capability to do this task ...

What "concept" are you trying to convey, BTW? That code 124 is
represented as binary 01111100, or that it should be set up as OFF ON
ON ON ON ON OFF OFF?

Julian

--
Julian Fowler


LOL !!!

Exactly ! But with other calculus he's brilliant and this has only been
brought to my attention with the amount of complaints from other engineers
that are following him up to do the commissioning. Back to the drawing
board. :-))


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On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:15:16 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:


"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
BigWallop wrote:

He needs to know how the DIP switches are configured in each detector to
give them a unique number on the control panel. But I'm now tearing my
hair
out trying to get it through to him. HELP !!!

I would go for either printing up a little booklet of numbers 0 to 1023
and the associated switch positions, or finding something programmable
(like an old Psion series 3, or even one of those nice new Java
compatible mobile phones) and knocking up a little program to do the
conversion for him on the fly with a pictorial output.

--
Cheers,

John.


But that's the rub John. He has a calculator that converts decimal to
binary for him, and he knows how to work it, but he can't grasp that the
number showing on the screen is the positions the switches should be in.
It's is something that is getting to him, that doesn't want, or can't, see
the translation. Weird ! :-))

He's obviously being confused by you saying he's working in base 2.
I'd knock up a quick PHP script that does numbers from 1 to summat
like 1023 and creates DIP switch images based on the binary equivalent
- the web counter on my museum site works in the same way.

In fact I might do that later on just for the hell of it.

Show him this: "there are 10 types of people in the world that
understand binary. Those who do and those who don't"

If his brain melts he's never going to get it

cheers

witchy/binarydinosaurs

ok, lets do it the laddish way ;o)

the object of the game is to score points for bedding girls. he has 7 days
of the week to do this in, starting on sunday which is the easiest day to
get laid. and as he goes back each day from sunday, it gets doubling
difficult to get laid so he gets double points for each day he goes back,
thus ....

(this is where the formatting gets knackered)
mon tue wed thu fri sat sun
64 32 16 8 4 2 1

an oat sewing profile of 0100001 means

1 point for sunday,
and going backwards, nothing until tuesday, which gets him 32 points
total=33 points!

QED

pip

p.s. if he has any problems with 1's and 0's - remember his willy is a 1 and
is like the DIP switch needs to be UP to fulfil the deed, and well the 0 for
the female anatomy is self-explanatory ;o)

"BigWallop" wrote in message
...

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
BigWallop wrote:

He needs to know how the DIP switches are configured in each detector
to
give them a unique number on the control panel. But I'm now tearing
my
hair
out trying to get it through to him. HELP !!!

I would go for either printing up a little booklet of numbers 0 to 1023
and the associated switch positions, or finding something programmable
(like an old Psion series 3, or even one of those nice new Java
compatible mobile phones) and knocking up a little program to do the
conversion for him on the fly with a pictorial output.

--
Cheers,

John.


But that's the rub John. He has a calculator that converts decimal to
binary for him, and he knows how to work it, but he can't grasp that the
number showing on the screen is the positions the switches should be in.
It's is something that is getting to him, that doesn't want, or can't, see
the translation. Weird ! :-))


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"BigWallop" wrote in message ...

I am trying to teach a young lad how to set up binary addressable fire alarm
systems and no matter how I explain it, or how much I write it down or draw
it for him, he just can't seem to grasp the concept.

Maybe he'll read his boss's description of him in uk.d-i-y; which I
suspect will be the end of the problem!

David ;-)

BigWallop wrote:

Thanks for this reply Nick. Maybe I've just pushed it to far this passed
couple of weeks and he needs a rest from it. I'll see what I can do about
the drawings for him, and maybe make a point of personally being with him on
more of sites to see if I can spot where the failing is coming from.

Glad it helped, one thing I learnt from being a primary school teacher
was that for some people in some circumstances, being calm and patient
(even though you really felt like beating the hell out of something)
often produced better results than anything else.

Thank you sir. You've made me sit back and relax a bit more on this. I
knew it was me that was at fault somewhere here. I'm being to pushy. :-))

Don't regard it as anyones fault, just a problem to work out together.

Nick

"Nick Nelson" wrote in message
...


BigWallop wrote:

Thanks for this reply Nick. Maybe I've just pushed it to far this
passed
couple of weeks and he needs a rest from it. I'll see what I can do
about
the drawings for him, and maybe make a point of personally being with
him on
more of sites to see if I can spot where the failing is coming from.

Glad it helped, one thing I learnt from being a primary school teacher
was that for some people in some circumstances, being calm and patient
(even though you really felt like beating the hell out of something)
often produced better results than anything else.

Thank you sir. You've made me sit back and relax a bit more on this. I
knew it was me that was at fault somewhere here. I'm being to pushy.
:-))

Don't regard it as anyones fault, just a problem to work out together.

Nick

LOL !!!

Do you think if I let him beat the hell out the detectors, it might help ?
:-))


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"Witchy" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:15:16 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:


"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
BigWallop wrote:

He needs to know how the DIP switches are configured in each detector
to
give them a unique number on the control panel. But I'm now tearing
my
hair
out trying to get it through to him. HELP !!!

I would go for either printing up a little booklet of numbers 0 to 1023
and the associated switch positions, or finding something programmable
(like an old Psion series 3, or even one of those nice new Java
compatible mobile phones) and knocking up a little program to do the
conversion for him on the fly with a pictorial output.

--
Cheers,

John.


But that's the rub John. He has a calculator that converts decimal to
binary for him, and he knows how to work it, but he can't grasp that the
number showing on the screen is the positions the switches should be in.
It's is something that is getting to him, that doesn't want, or can't,
see
the translation. Weird ! :-))

He's obviously being confused by you saying he's working in base 2.
I'd knock up a quick PHP script that does numbers from 1 to summat
like 1023 and creates DIP switch images based on the binary equivalent
- the web counter on my museum site works in the same way.

In fact I might do that later on just for the hell of it.

Show him this: "there are 10 types of people in the world that
understand binary. Those who do and those who don't"

If his brain melts he's never going to get it

cheers

witchy/binarydinosaurs

ROFL !!!

Now you've got me confused !! :-)) My brain hurts. LOL


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"pip" wrote in message
...
ok, lets do it the laddish way ;o)

the object of the game is to score points for bedding girls. he has 7 days
of the week to do this in, starting on sunday which is the easiest day to
get laid. and as he goes back each day from sunday, it gets doubling
difficult to get laid so he gets double points for each day he goes back,
thus ....

(this is where the formatting gets knackered)
mon tue wed thu fri sat sun
64 32 16 8 4 2 1

an oat sewing profile of 0100001 means

1 point for sunday,
and going backwards, nothing until tuesday, which gets him 32 points
total=33 points!

QED

pip

p.s. if he has any problems with 1's and 0's - remember his willy is a 1
and
is like the DIP switch needs to be UP to fulfil the deed, and well the 0
for
the female anatomy is self-explanatory ;o)



LOL !!!

I could just use him as the 1, because he seems to be becoming a bit of an
upright prick. :-))


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"Lobster" wrote in message
om...
"BigWallop" wrote in message
...

I am trying to teach a young lad how to set up binary addressable fire
alarm
systems and no matter how I explain it, or how much I write it down or
draw
it for him, he just can't seem to grasp the concept.

Maybe he'll read his boss's description of him in uk.d-i-y; which I
suspect will be the end of the problem!

David ;-)

ROFL !!!

But I don't want to lose him !!! He's a great engineer otherwise. :-))


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try
http://www.learnbinary.com/
I know binary is simple, but maybe he only need to know on = 1 and off =0
If its too hard that methods work rather than converting to decimal.

Andrew

BigWallop wrote:
Hi folks,

I am trying to teach a young lad how to set up binary addressable fire alarm
systems and no matter how I explain it, or how much I write it down or draw
it for him, he just can't seem to grasp the concept. Now I know it is the
way I'm trying teach him and not the way he learns (?) so I'm looking for
any suggestions on ways to get this principle over to him.

He's bright when it comes to learning everything else, so it must be the way
I'm doing it that has him confused. What it the simplest way to describe
this numbering system. I've even given him homework to do, using the binary
system to count to one hundred, but he still gets it wrong time and time
again.

He needs to know how the DIP switches are configured in each detector to
give them a unique number on the control panel. But I'm now tearing my hair
out trying to get it through to him. HELP !!!


---
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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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In article ,
"BigWallop" wrote:


Exactly ! But with other calculus he's brilliant and this has only been
brought to my attention with the amount of complaints from other engineers
that are following him up to do the commissioning. Back to the drawing
board. :-))

if he objects there is no 2 in binary then point out we have no digit
for base ten either. We make one out of combining a 1 to say we have 1
lot of ten and a 0 to say we have no lots of ones. Whereas Eleven is
made up of a 1 in the tens column and a 1 in the ones column. Then
extend to hundreds and thousands. Once he has the concept that we use
column keepers in base ten it might be easier for him to get the concept
in binary.

Peter

--
Peter Ashby
School of Life Sciences, University of Dundee, Scotland
To assume that I speak for the University of Dundee is to be deluded.
Reverse the Spam and remove to email me.

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:15:16 GMT, "BigWallop" wrote:

But that's the rub John. He has a calculator that converts decimal to
binary for him, and he knows how to work it, but he can't grasp that the
number showing on the screen is the positions the switches should be in.
It's is something that is getting to him, that doesn't want, or can't, see
the translation. Weird ! :-))

I use binary and hex every day but *STILL* have problems with PC manuals which
show black and white pictures of DIL switches. The biggest problem (having
worked out which end is which) is deducing which part of the drawing actually
depicts the switch 'lever' (black or white).

e.g. something like
--------
| ####|
--------

now is the switch set to the left or the right?

Geo

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:12:54 +0100, BigWallop wrote:

Hi folks,

I am trying to teach a young lad how to set up binary addressable fire
alarm systems and no matter how I explain it, or how much I write it
down or draw it for him, he just can't seem to grasp the concept. Now I
know it is the way I'm trying teach him and not the way he learns (?) so
I'm looking for any suggestions on ways to get this principle over to
him.

He's bright when it comes to learning everything else, so it must be the
way I'm doing it that has him confused. What it the simplest way to
describe this numbering system. I've even given him homework to do,
using the binary system to count to one hundred, but he still gets it
wrong time and time again.

He needs to know how the DIP switches are configured in each detector to
give them a unique number on the control panel. But I'm now tearing my
hair out trying to get it through to him. HELP !!!


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Release Date: 09/10/03


try http://www.adeptrocketry.com/DipSwitch.htm

Martin Warby