"John Rumm" made things up in message
...
PC Paul wrote:

So that's 95.5 kW.

It's just about feasible, but only at dedicated 'filling stations' with
their own electrical substation. You won't be plugging it in at home...

A whole 6.5Ah huh... got more than that with my Makita ;-)

Minor point, but a real EV would need hundreds of times more battery
capacity than a prius, which puts the "one minute recharge" numbers back

No it doesn't. Toshiba said so. I believe them and don't believe you.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
PC Paul wrote:
*Or* it does 0-60 in under 3s.. in which case he should *still*
leave it at home.... you need to think quickly if you have that much
power under your foot...

I don't think there's any road car that can accelerate to 60 from
rest in the same time as it can brake to a stop.

The Ferrari Enzo comes close.

3.3s 0-60

60-0 in 120ft which I make 2.75 seconds...

Now take the supercharged Aerial atom with it's 2.91s 0-60 and equally good
braking and it's perilously close.

and a sub 3s 0-60 will *always* be a lethal weapon if you sneeze ;-)

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article s.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
You haven't read the posts. Tsk, tsk. Now, for you. The Toyota Prius
has four CVTs with belts and pullies.

I'm glad

...this man thinks of cog and gear
...when there are none it's plainly clear
...he makes things up by own admission
...this porky teller of transmission

...the greatest car to me and you
...he screamed "drinks fuel like the QE2"

...this man he is a foolish cynic
...it's time he went back to the clinic

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
PC Paul wrote:
*Or* it does 0-60 in under 3s.. in which case he should *still* leave it
at home.... you need to think quickly if you have that much power under
your foot...

I don't think there's any road car that can accelerate to 60 from rest in
the same time as it can brake to a stop.

It depends on how well the brakes have been oiled

--
geoff

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 19:24:37 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"T i m" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 17:33:50 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


You have two of these things? Must be a neighbour from hell.

You had better believe it (but you won't because you, Toyota or
Toshiba didn't say it).

Wrecked
cars all over the place.

Town twinned with Beirut .. better not run the Prius though here ..
we'd have you squeeling like a pig ...

I would lock you all up.

If that's work works for you and you paid us enough anything is
possible?

Ms Whiplash

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 20:56:24 GMT, raden wrote:

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
PC Paul wrote:
*Or* it does 0-60 in under 3s.. in which case he should *still* leave it
at home.... you need to think quickly if you have that much power under
your foot...

I don't think there's any road car that can accelerate to 60 from rest in
the same time as it can brake to a stop.

It depends on how well the brakes have been oiled

Oh don't say that or he'll be out there doing it .. and do you really
want his death on yo .. oh .. shhhhhhh ;-)

T i m

"Doctor Drivel" wrote:


"John Rumm" made things up in message
...
PC Paul wrote:

So that's 95.5 kW.

It's just about feasible, but only at dedicated 'filling stations' with
their own electrical substation. You won't be plugging it in at home...

A whole 6.5Ah huh... got more than that with my Makita ;-)

Minor point, but a real EV would need hundreds of times more battery
capacity than a prius, which puts the "one minute recharge" numbers back

No it doesn't. Toshiba said so. I believe them and don't believe you.

Toyota says it has a CVT and you choose not to believe them. Both are
Japanese just like your beloved combi manufacturer, why don't you
believe what Toyota says? Have they grown tired of you turning up at
their showrooms, sitting in the Prius on display (the one that's been
there for months because no one sane would buy one) and going brum,
brum, beep, beep just like you do down at the playgroup?

Turned up that DB6 engine builders name yet Drivel?

three port valve please


--

In article ,
raden wrote:
I don't think there's any road car that can accelerate to 60 from rest
in the same time as it can brake to a stop.

It depends on how well the brakes have been oiled

You shouldn't have mentioned that. Drivel will be out now making sure his
brakes match the performance.

--
*Sleep with a photographer and watch things develop

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , T i m
writes
On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 20:56:24 GMT, raden wrote:

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
PC Paul wrote:
*Or* it does 0-60 in under 3s.. in which case he should *still* leave it
at home.... you need to think quickly if you have that much power under
your foot...

I don't think there's any road car that can accelerate to 60 from rest in
the same time as it can brake to a stop.

It depends on how well the brakes have been oiled

Oh don't say that or he'll be out there doing it .. and do you really
want his death on yo .. oh .. shhhhhhh ;-)

I think I'm reaching the point where I might even show him where the
brakes are

.... and buy the oil



--
geoff

Doctor Drivel wrote:
"T i m" wrote in message
...


Out of interest, why did they give
you £1500+ off when there is a
waiting list?


Government grant of £1,000, because of its low emissions. It is a fund and
when low you may not get the grant. If these other cars you are on about
are as low as the Prius they would get the grant, but surprise, surprise,
they do not, because they are not as low as the Prius.

Sounds like Nu Labur, tax working people and give it to the unworthy
layabouts to waste on a stupid idea. The Prius is now being discounted
in the US. It's also being investigated for stalling on the highway ( a
non recall ie discreet request to reprogramme the engine management
computer is under way). If you have the electronic start sensing system,
then the batteries apparently only last a week and you can't start your
car! The customers have to disconnect the battery to go on holiday for a
fortnight. The new CVT transmission is obviously an admission that the
previous version gearbox didn't work! Some battery failures have
occurred in the US, but have been replaced under warranty. Toyota are
still losing money on every one they produce, it's only in the market
as a sop to the pc brigade. Predictions are that with a £2K battery
replacement cost, there will be a very poor aftermarket as it approaches
8yrs. Bigger batteries equal an even higher maintenance cost! That's why
the rental companies are facing such high depreciation figures. GM are
backing hydrogen technology AIUI.

Regards
Capitol

In article ,
Capitol wrote:
Predictions are that with a £2K battery
replacement cost, there will be a very poor aftermarket as it approaches
8yrs.

Dunno where he gets the eight years from. The new Lexus has a five year
warranty on the battery. Of course, this is probably in the light of
experience. And it costs twice the price of a Prius.

--
*Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

They're most unusual then. I've certainly seen gearboxes on both mowers
and boats. How do you reverse the boat without a gearbox?

You can't... can't stop it going forward either!


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Doctor Drivel wrote:

Power is applied simultaneously to the transmission/wheels from two motors:

1. A petrol motor
2. An electric motor

Which means...no gearbox required. Got it? Nah, you haven't

I agree, it has no (conventional) gearbox.

It has transmission

The ratio is continously variable

Therefor it has CVT, it does not have a gearbox, and does not use pullys
or gears. Whatever way you look at it though it has CVT.

Now read all my posts on this. Read them 4 times.

No, far to dull and ill-informed for me...


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

No it doesn't. Toshiba said so. I believe them and don't believe you.

You lack credibility.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Doctor Drivel wrote:

Fast enough. It keeps up with them all.

Year, right!

9m 15mm copper pipe please

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 23:03:31 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
raden wrote:
I don't think there's any road car that can accelerate to 60 from rest
in the same time as it can brake to a stop.

It depends on how well the brakes have been oiled

You shouldn't have mentioned that. Drivel will be out now making sure his
brakes match the performance.

Mock up a can of Toyota "Supa Stop" Regen brake oil (as reccomended by
Toshiba) and give it to his warden.

T i m

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 22:11:21 GMT, raden wrote:

In message , T i m
writes
On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 20:56:24 GMT, raden wrote:

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
PC Paul wrote:
*Or* it does 0-60 in under 3s.. in which case he should *still* leave it
at home.... you need to think quickly if you have that much power under
your foot...

I don't think there's any road car that can accelerate to 60 from rest in
the same time as it can brake to a stop.

It depends on how well the brakes have been oiled

Oh don't say that or he'll be out there doing it .. and do you really
want his death on yo .. oh .. shhhhhhh ;-)

I think I'm reaching the point where I might even show him where the
brakes are

... and buy the oil

Go for it Geoff,

1) You know it makes sense
2) You should get a 'Community Action' award?

Cheers ..

T i m

"Dave Plowman (News)" made things up and wrote in
message ...
In article ,
Capitol wrote:

Predictions are that with a £2K battery
replacement cost, there will be a very
poor aftermarket as it approaches
8yrs.

Dunno where he gets the eight years from.

Toyota. Boy is this one dumb.

snip babble

"Capitol" wrote a load of old wives tales
in message ...

Doctor Drivel wrote brilliance:

Government grant of £1,000, because of its low emissions. It is a fund
and
when low you may not get the grant. If these other cars you are on
about
are as low as the Prius they would get the grant, but surprise,
surprise,
they do not, because they are not as low as the Prius.

Sounds like Nu Labur, tax
working people

snip irrelevant garbage on the best government ever known

The Prius is now being discounted
in the US.

New on me. The price is coming down now production is ramping up and lines
are becoming more automated. Once the production is up to speed, the Prius
should be cheaper than other cars as there are less mechanical parts. It is
"simpler" than a current IC engine/auto tranny.

It's also being investigated
for stalling on the highway

Stalling? The Prius groups don't mention it, so as usual probably not true.
Much propaganda is aimed at the Prius. One lunatic here thinks it does
21mpg, when I get over 55 mpg, and many others get over 60 mpg.

The new CVT transmission is
obviously an admission that the
previous version gearbox didn't work!

Doesn't have a CVT, no gearbox at all. The Mk 2 is VERY different to the Mk
1. So, much so they should have changed the name, but Prius was a great
name for reliability. Many of them are used as taxis in the US and Canada
and save the owners a fortune in running costs.

Some battery failures have
occurred in the US, but have been
replaced under warranty.

To my knowledge no batteries have been replaced under warrantee; made by
Panasonic.

Toyota are still losing money on
every one they produce,

Are you making this up? They are to up producrion from low volumes, more
hands on like sports cars, to full volume lines. It is to be made in the
USA and China demand is so great.

it's only in the market
as a sop to the pc brigade.

Tripe. It is a low emissions, high mpg mid sized car with similar
performance to similar cars.

Predictions are that with a £2K battery
replacement cost, there will be a very
poor aftermarket as it approaches
8yrs.

Well as none have been replaced under warrantee and the average life of
battery is 12 years, more like 15. that will not be an issue. See how much
a new auto tranny costs after 9 years.

Bigger batteries equal an even
higher maintenance cost!

Are you drunk? The batteries are maintenance free.

That's why the rental companies
are facing such high depreciation figures.

Few rental companies rent out the Prius. The reiduals are higher than
average. There is still a waiting list for them.

GM are backing hydrogen technology AIUI.

Are they? They are bringing out a raft of hybrids in about 6 to 9 months,
based on the Toyota gearboxless transmission.

What a load of old wives tales you come out with. Stop listening to drunks
in pubs.

"Matt" stupidly wrote in message
...
"Doctor Drivel" brilliantly wrote:

"John Rumm" made things up in message
...
PC Paul applied some common sense and wrote:

So that's 95.5 kW.

It's just about feasible, but only at dedicated 'filling stations'
with
their own electrical substation. You won't be plugging it in at
home...

A whole 6.5Ah huh... got more than that with my Makita ;-)

Minor point, but a real EV would need hundreds of times more battery
capacity than a prius, which puts the "one minute recharge" numbers
back

No it doesn't. Toshiba said so. I believe them and don't believe you.

Toyota says it has a CVT

Matty boy, the point here is the battery, and what it can absorb quickly.
etc. Get it?

snip irrelevant scatter brained garbage

"Dave Plowman (News)" escaped from the clinic and
wrote in message ...
In article ,
raden wrote:
I don't think there's any road car that can accelerate to 60 from rest
in the same time as it can brake to a stop.

It depends on how well the brakes have been oiled

You shouldn't have mentioned that.

Bit he did.

snip babble

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
Therefor it has CVT, it does not have a gearbox, and does not use pullys
or gears. Whatever way you look at it though it has CVT.

A gearbox is a box which contains gears. Makes no difference how many or
the type, or whether it has several ratios, just one or whether that
includes - or not - reverse.



And the Prius has an epicyclic gearbox which acts as a CVT.

No amount of blather from Evil makes any difference to facts. It merely
shows up his lack of knowledge of things technical.

--
*The fact that no one understands you doesn't mean you're an artist

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Stalling? The Prius groups don't mention it, so as usual probably not
true. Much propaganda is aimed at the Prius. One lunatic here thinks it
does 21mpg, when I get over 55 mpg, and many others get over 60 mpg.

Fuel consumption on any vehicle depends on use. Have you a figure for
cruising at 70 on a motorway?

Of course not since you don't have a Prius.

--
*Hang in there, retirement is only thirty years away! *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" made up things and then wrote
them in message ...
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:

Therefor it has CVT, it does not have a gearbox, and does not use pullys
or gears. Whatever way you look at it though it has CVT.

A gearbox is a box which contains gears.

Well spotted. Yes, a gearbox is box with gears in. 10/10.

snip irrelevant disjointed stuff

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Therefor it has CVT, it does not have a gearbox, and does not use pullys
or gears. Whatever way you look at it though it has CVT.

A gearbox is a box which contains gears.

Well spotted. Yes, a gearbox is box with gears in. 10/10.

Good. Stick with it and learn. It's not that difficult. Most children have
to.

--
*Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"John Rumm" wrote misinformation in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

Power is applied simultaneously to the transmission/wheels from two
motors:

1. A petrol motor
2. An electric motor

Which means...no gearbox required. Got it? Nah, you haven't

I agree, it has no (conventional) gearbox.

At last. Is he grasping it after all this time?

It has transmission

As do all, even EVs have them.

The ratio is continously variable

......oh no! failure. The planetary cluster is referred to as a
power-splitter. A normal gearbox/CVT lowers and raises ratios. No ratios
are raised and lowered.

Back to basics. If you apply the correct power/torque at the wheels you
don't need a gearbox. An electric car doesn't have a gearbox because the
electric motors can do this.

The Prius splits the power from the two power sources, which are approx 70
hp each, and sends the combined power to the wheels. No raising or lowering
of ratios, no gearbox, no CVT. That is what it does. Simple. Now you
know.

Therefor it has CVT, it does not have a gearbox, and does not use pullys
or gears. Whatever way you look at it though it has CVT.

No see above. A CVT raises and lowers ratios, the planetary cluster does no
such thing. No CVT. Toyota say it has an electric CVT, ECVT, this is for
marketing purposes only, as they think a departure from a gearbox is
something the public are not tuned up to. In practice it doesn't need one;
just clever application of power/torque.

Two outfits are working to improve matters:

The California Plug-In Hybrid Cars Initiative (http://calcars.org). This is
a non-profit organisation funded by private donations.

Team Fate (http://www.team-fate.net/), an electric vehicle research group at
the University of California.

What these outfits are doing is building plug-in hybrid vehicles, PHEVs.
PHEVs still have petrol engines which turn electric motors to charge the
batteries. PHEVs have a plug to attach a power line. You plug in the PHEV
at night, and leave your drive with a fully-charged battery. You still use
energy, you just aren't burning on-board fuel to generate it all.

The petrol motor in a PHEV would still need to turn occasionally. In the
Prius, the power output of the petrol motor and the electric motor are
matched, giving about 70 horsepower each. The petrol motor will always
start if you floor the accelerator. The petrol motor might still start even
if you don't need over 70hp, if the on-board computer determines that the
battery needs some recharging. As the cost of batteries comes down, the size
of the electric motor will be increased and the petrol motor decrease.

If you could plug in an existing Prius the car could travel about 2 miles on
electricity alone. This is known as a PHEV-2. CalCars have installed
lead-acid batteries into the cargo area of a Prius, and added an AC inlet to
create a PHEV-10. Three prototypes are running. The standard Prius battery
pack is NiMH, so the CalCars PHEV-10's are carrying around a far more bulk
than they could.

The Prius battery bay is larger and can be filled with a Lith-Ion pack.
CalCars says
Panasonic are increasing battery factories by 500% to keep up with demand.
When production is on full belt the battery prices will drop. The £2K
replacement for the Prius is predicted to drop to £1K. that this would
convert a Prius into a PHEV-30. Many people could do their daily commute on
electric. A PHEV-30 doesn't mean that the petrol engine will not come in,
as occasionally it does. Acceleration and charging demands would mean it
may cut in.

Travelling on batteries is not energy free, as that electricity was taken
from the grid the night before, but cheaper to run than petrol and more eco
friendly as overnight wasted electricity is being used. Team Fate has built
a PHEV-60, 60 miles range on batteries alone. This is all with existing
technology. All feasible.

"Dave Plowman (News)" encouragingly wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel briliantly wrote:

Therefor it has CVT, it does not have a gearbox, and does not use
pullys
or gears. Whatever way you look at it though it has CVT.

A gearbox is a box which contains gears.

Well spotted. Yes, a gearbox is box with gears in. 10/10.

Good.

That was good, you got it right. Now pay attention!

snip babble

"Dave Plowman (News)" stupidly wrote in message
...
In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel brilliantly wrote:
Stalling? The Prius groups don't mention it, so as usual probably not
true. Much propaganda is aimed at the Prius. One lunatic here thinks it
does 21mpg, when I get over 55 mpg, and many others get over 60 mpg.

Fuel consumption

More illogical drivel

snip babble

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
enews.net...


The petrol motor in a PHEV would still need to turn occasionally. In the
Prius, the power output of the petrol motor and the electric motor are
matched, giving about 70 horsepower each. The petrol motor will always
start if you floor the accelerator. The petrol motor might still start
even
if you don't need over 70hp, if the on-board computer determines that the
battery needs some recharging.

How does the Prius maintain the temperature of the CAT?
As you know the CAT doesn't work very well unless it is hot.
If you keep stopping and starting the engine the CAT may not stay hot enough
to remove the unburnt fuel and CO from the exhaust.
This could lead to your ZEV actually being worse than a standard car with a
CAT.

In article s.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

.....oh no! failure. The planetary cluster is referred to as a
power-splitter. A normal gearbox/CVT lowers and raises ratios. No
ratios are raised and lowered.

Oh yes they are. The actual gear ratio between the petrol engine and the
wheels varies.

Keep reading my posts and learn. It's not difficult.

--
*A plateau is a high form of flattery.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" escaped from the clinic and
wrote in message ...
In article s.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

.....oh no! failure. The planetary cluster is referred to as a
power-splitter. A normal gearbox/CVT lowers and raises ratios. No
ratios are raised and lowered.

Oh yes they are. The actual gear ratio between the petrol engine and the
wheels varies.

Nope. Wrong again. The power splitter apportions the power from the petrol
and electric motors to give "combined" power and torque from the two, at the
wheels, eliminating a rise and lower ratio gearbox. There you have it, but
will you comprehend? Not in million years.

On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 15:57:13 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" escaped from the clinic and
wrote in message ...
In article s.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

.....oh no! failure. The planetary cluster is referred to as a
power-splitter. A normal gearbox/CVT lowers and raises ratios. No
ratios are raised and lowered.

Oh yes they are. The actual gear ratio between the petrol engine and the
wheels varies.

Nope. Wrong again. The power splitter apportions the power from the petrol
and electric motors to give "combined" power and torque from the two, at the
wheels, eliminating a rise and lower ratio gearbox. There you have it, but
will you comprehend? Not in million years.

Is there a motor AND a generator or is the motor used as a generator
when driven by the engine (can't see a point for motor and genny ..
perpetual motion and that ..)

T i m

"T i m" sensibly wrote in message
...
On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 15:57:13 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" escaped from the clinic and
wrote in message ...
In article s.net,
Doctor Drivel briliantly wrote:

.....oh no! failure. The planetary cluster
is referred to as a power-splitter. A
normal gearbox/CVT lowers and raises
ratios. No ratios are raised and lowered.

Oh yes they are. The actual gear ratio
between the petrol engine and the
wheels varies.

Nope. Wrong again. The power splitter
apportions the power from the petrol
and electric motors to give "combined"
power and torque from the two, at the
wheels, eliminating a rise and lower
ratio gearbox. There you have it, but
will you comprehend? Not in million years.

Is there a motor AND a generator or is the motor used as a generator
when driven by the engine (can't see a point for motor and genny ..
perpetual motion and that ..)

A motor and a generator. The petrol motor will be turning the genny and that
turns the electric motor, or the battery can turn the electric motor
entirely or the motor can be fed from the battery and the genny. The power
splitter does all that. It is the planetary cluster and the management
system behind it that has made the hybrid. Many predict it will replace all
normal ICE/auto box within 5 years, then hydrogen or full EVs will take over
as battery technology take over from hybrids. The hybrid with a large
battery pack and a Stirling or Steam Cell, instead of an ICE would extend
the hybrid even further.

The power splitter "is not" a raise and lower ratio gearbox. A gearbox is a
"series" device, taking input from a shaft, raising or lowing the ratio, be
it manually, auto or sliding belts or toroidal, and then outputs a different
ratio via the output shaft to the wheels. Input - change ratio - output.
The power splitter just does not do that, it take power from two "parallel"
sources, petrol and electric motors, and outputs that power to the wheels.

Perpetual motion is when the output can be fed back to the input and run the
motor. It is called over-unity - which is when the output creates more
power than energy to run the motor. If only.

Doctor Drivel wrote:

The ratio is continously variable


.....oh no! failure. The planetary cluster is referred to as a
power-splitter. A normal gearbox/CVT lowers and raises ratios. No ratios
are raised and lowered.

Nonsense. The wheel speed can vary independently of the engine or motor
speed. Therefore the ratio varies.

Back to basics. If you apply the correct power/torque at the wheels you
don't need a gearbox. An electric car doesn't have a gearbox because the
electric motors can do this.

However this is not what happens in the prius...

The Prius splits the power from the two power sources, which are approx 70

More correctly it combines power from two sources. No need to split two
independent things.

hp each, and sends the combined power to the wheels.
No raising or lowering
of ratios,

The wheel speed is not fixed for a given engine speed. Therefore the
ratios change.

That is what it does. Simple.

Yup, simple CVT.

Therefor it has CVT

Wrong as usual.

No CVT. Toyota say it has an electric CVT

Now lets just look at that sentence shall we... spot any inconsistencies?

marketing purposes only, as they think a departure from a gearbox is
something the public are not tuned up to. In practice it doesn't need one;
just clever application of power/torque.

Through a planetary gear that matches the engine speed to wheel speed by
variation of the effective gear ratio. The differential speed of the
power sources dictates the ratio.

What these outfits are doing is building plug-in hybrid vehicles, PHEVs.
PHEVs still have petrol engines which turn electric motors to charge the

Pretty much what they have done on trains for years then... (except with
batteries)



Extension flue pack please....


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"dennis@home" wrote in message
k...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
enews.net...


The petrol motor in a PHEV would still need to turn occasionally. In
the
Prius, the power output of the petrol motor and the electric motor are
matched, giving about 70 horsepower each. The petrol motor will always
start if you floor the accelerator. The petrol motor might still start
even
if you don't need over 70hp, if the on-board computer determines that
the
battery needs some recharging.

How does the Prius maintain the temperature of the CAT?
As you know the CAT doesn't work very well unless it is hot.
If you keep stopping and starting the engine the CAT
may not stay hot enough to remove the unburnt fuel
and CO from the exhaust. This could lead to your
ZEV actually being worse than a standard car with a
CAT.

The petrol motor is run to over 1000 revs before the ignition and fuel
system is turned on. This reduces poor emissions on start up.

As the USA has lower emission standards than the EU, Toyota have installed a
heat accumulator. This is in the water cooling lines. It is a cylinder and
retains a hell of a lot of heat, like a thermos flask. It will retain heat
for many days in below freezing conditions. When the petrol motor is spun up
by the electric motor to over 1000 rpm, the heat is released and heats the
cylinder head and most of the engine, to near operating temperature. It
also improves mpg. This accumulator is not on the European models. I
believe some people have ordered it from the US and fitted it. And some
people use them in normal cars too. If you stop start a lot, letting the
car cool enough this accumulator would certainly help on any engine. You
can also take it off and onto the enxt car, if an after market add on.

I believe SAAB were the first to have one about 10 years ago. Not sure if
SAAB still do it.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
No it doesn't. Toshiba said so. I believe them and don't believe you.

You lack credibility.

So do Toshiba according to you.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

Fast enough. It keeps up with them all.

Year, right!

Nice to see you are learning.

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 22:11:21 GMT, raden wrote:

In message , T i m
writes
On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 20:56:24 GMT, raden wrote:

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
PC Paul wrote:
*Or* it does 0-60 in under 3s.. in which case he should *still*
leave it
at home.... you need to think quickly if you have that much power
under
your foot...

I don't think there's any road car that can accelerate to 60 from rest
in
the same time as it can brake to a stop.

It depends on how well the brakes have been oiled

Oh don't say that or he'll be out there doing it .. and do you really
want his death on yo .. oh .. shhhhhhh ;-)

I think I'm reaching the point where I might even show him where the
brakes are

... and buy the oil

Go for it Geoff,

1) You know it makes sense
2) You should get a 'Community Action' award?

Maxie, gets lots of awards for:

1. Morris dancing
2. Best polka-dot designs.

The Community did action against Maxie because of his constant swearing.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

The ratio is continously variable


.....oh no! failure. The planetary cluster is referred to as a
power-splitter. A normal gearbox/CVT lowers and raises ratios. No
ratios
are raised and lowered.

Nonsense. The wheel speed can
vary independently of the engine or motor
speed. Therefore the ratio varies.

Garbage. The only ratio that varies is the ration between the two parallel
power sources. The power splitter decides that.

Back to basics. If you apply the correct
power/torque at the wheels you
don't need a gearbox. An electric car
doesn't have a gearbox because the
electric motors can do this.

However this is not what happens in the prius...

It is.

More correctly it combines power from
two sources.

You are getting it. We shall see.

hp each, and sends the combined power to the wheels.
No raising or lowering
of ratios,

The wheel speed is not fixed for a
given engine speed. Therefore the
ratios change.

The wheel speed is fixed to the power, which is not just from an engine.

That is what it does. Simple.

Yup, simple CVT.

Oh no. after I though there was some progress. Drat.

Through a planetary gear that matches
the engine speed to wheel speed by
variation of the effective gear ratio.
The differential speed of the
power sources dictates the ratio.

Missed it again. Keep going.

What these outfits are doing is building plug-in hybrid vehicles, PHEVs.
PHEVs still have petrol engines which turn electric motors to charge the

Pretty much what they have done on trains for years then... (except with
batteries)

John Rumm wrote:
Doctor Drivel wrote:

The ratio is continously variable


.....oh no! failure. The planetary cluster is referred to as a
power-splitter. A normal gearbox/CVT lowers and raises ratios. No
ratios are raised and lowered.

Nonsense. The wheel speed can vary independently of the engine or
motor speed. Therefore the ratio varies.

With you so far

Back to basics. If you apply the correct power/torque at the wheels
you don't need a gearbox. An electric car doesn't have a gearbox
because the electric motors can do this.

However this is not what happens in the prius...

Agreed.


The Prius splits the power from the two power sources, which are
approx 70

More correctly it combines power from two sources. No need to split
two independent things.

It *does* split the power from the two sources - between the wheels and the
generator. It takes in variable amounts from each source and sends it in
variable amounts to the wheels and generator. 0-100% on both sides.
Ingenious really.

hp each, and sends the combined power to the wheels.
No raising or lowering
of ratios,

The wheel speed is not fixed for a given engine speed. Therefore the
ratios change.

That is what it does. Simple.

Yup, simple CVT.

'Tis a CVT. 'simple' as in ingeniously designed and hence more efficient,
less complex, smaller rather than 'simple' as in run of the mill as fitted
to Festers, for instance.

Therefor it has CVT

Wrong as usual.

No CVT. Toyota say it has an electric CVT

Now lets just look at that sentence shall we... spot any
inconsistencies?
marketing purposes only, as they think a departure from a gearbox is
something the public are not tuned up to. In practice it doesn't
need one; just clever application of power/torque.

Through a planetary gear that matches the engine speed to wheel speed
by variation of the effective gear ratio. The differential speed of
the power sources dictates the ratio.

What these outfits are doing is building plug-in hybrid vehicles,
PHEVs. PHEVs still have petrol engines which turn electric motors to
charge the

Pretty much what they have done on trains for years then... (except
with batteries)


Yep. And it works well.

Of course I'm still waiting for one that runs a small diesel at continuous
optimum revs (or off) like trains do.. should improve economy etc. no end.

Still needs much better battery technology though. That's holding so many
things up :-(