On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 00:28:19 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


Still no getting stuff past you is there .. (oh and we are laughing at
you not with you ..

No you are not. You are laughing at sweet FA. It figures as you have a
Rover.

From the Prius Web site:

"Remarkably, the petrol engine / electric motor combinanation performs
like a diesel family saloon ... "

So, it performs just like my Rover but cost 160 times as much ...

Result!

T i m

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 10:22:11 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"dennis@home" wrote in message
.uk...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
(The CAT on my car works so well you can't measure the pollutants at an
MOT test station.)

But they don't measure CO2 which is the major greenhouse gas. And
burning
any fossil fuel produces this.

No but like stated elsewhere its better to burn the fuel in the car than
in
a powerstation and then convert it to something else to burn in the car.

NO. The IC engine is hopelessly inefficient. The Stirling is twice the
efficiency on average, and there are ongoing experiments with the Stirling
and the Toyota hybrid transmission. That will throw the mpg up by about
100%. Have longer range batteries charged from the grid overnight as well
as on-board, and 200mpg is achievable. Stirling engines are used in micro
CHP boilers because they are far superior to the IC engine.

So, your IC engine spins a genny (losses) and charges the battery
(losses) and / or propels the car forward via the CVT (losses). Or you
can use battery only to power the motor (losses) through the CVT
(losses).

With a conventional system your IC engine propels the car forward
through the CVT / gearbox (losses)

Fact, every time you convert energy from one form to another there
will be losses, something that the great Gods Toyota and Toshiba can't
stop.

Ok, let's try to be serious for a second (like we havent tried).

The Prius can eliminate KERBSIDE emmissions for (currently in the UK)
about 5 miles (not a bad thing).

The Prius looks and drives fairly traditionally (compared with many
earlier offerings).

The Prius has a complex combination of transmission / engery source
options combined using a clever / simple device (traditional gearboxes
are not generally a common point of failure and are often sealed for
life).

The Prius does have 'low' emmissions but not substantially lower than
many more 'traditional' counterparts.

Out of interest, why did they give you £1500+ off when there is a
waiting list?

T i m

"Doctor Drivel" wrote:

You are a total madman. The Prius has the engine and electric motor power
simultaneously to elinminate a gearbox/CVT. I know, I have one.

http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/2005/prius/specs.html

Oh dear, just look what it says: "Transmission: Electronically
controlled continuously variable transmission (ECVT) "

And while we are at it, what did you receive through the post from
Toyota UK last year Drivel? Every Prius owner would know this.

So post back Drivel but don't spend too long on here as we need you
back on the counter selling some more copper tanks as I need the cash
to refill my Aston Martin DBR9 with red diesel.


--

Doctor Drivel wrote:

Does it transfer power from its
engine/motor to the wheels?


Yep



But no gearbox or CVT with pullies and belts.

No one mentioned gearboxes, or pullys, or belts other than you. We wer
just establishing it has a transmission.

Is the transfer ratio fixed,
variable in steps, or continuously variable?


There is one gear that is all.
A gearbox/CVT on oth

snip irrelevant waffle

Continuous - therefore by definition it has CVT.


See above.

Gearboxes are the

snip more irrelevant waffle

The number of "gears", "cogs" or any other component are also not
relevant. What is significant is can the effective drive ratio be
changed continously. The answer is yes, so you have a continously
variable transmission (that does not use belts or pullys, but so what?)



A packet of tap washers please....


--
Cheers,

John.

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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

raden wrote:
In message ws.net,
Doctor Evil writes

Metal hydride for the Prius. The better batteries, and still in R&D
are Lith ion and Lith poly, which come from cell phone technology.

And did you mention something about polythene, batteries and no
polution?

Lityh Poly, which "promise" 300 mile range on one charge. Toshiba
have developed another type which can recharge in a minute or so.
So, fast recharges for cars.

Recharge in a minute or so?

How many Amps is that

or did you throw away the envelope again ?

Right. Numbers.

Toshiba have a prototype 600mAh battery which recharges to 80% capacity in 1
minute.

That's 0.6Ah * 0.8 = 0.48 Ah to put into it.

Assuming 100% efficient charging (*very* unlikely, but best case for
Dr.Ivels purposes), to do that requires:

0.48*60 Amps = 28.8 Amps. For a 600mAh battery.

A Prius has a total battery capacity of 6.5Ah (at 201.6V DC) ( source:
http://www.toyota.com.hk/showroom/prius2003/Specs.html )

So that's 6.5/0.6 * 28.8 = 312 Amps.

At 201.6V DC.

That's a lot. 63kW.

Using the table at http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm this gives a
cable size of 2x 12mm diameter (113mm^2 crosssection).

And that's with 100% efficient charging. NiMH batteries are typically 66%
efficient charging, so let's use that.

So that's 95.5 kW.

It's just about feasible, but only at dedicated 'filling stations' with
their own electrical substation. You won't be plugging it in at home...

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

Does it transfer power from its
engine/motor to the wheels?

Yep

But no gearbox or CVT with pullies and belts.

No one mentioned gearboxes, or pullys, or
belts other than you. We wer
just establishing it has a transmission.

You clearly do not understand the difference between a transmission and
gearbox. "All" cars, electric, or petrol, have transmissions. They
requi

- a differential,
- drive shafts,
- wheels bearings,
- etc

They are part of the "transmission".
A transmission transmits power from the power source to the wheels.
Remember that.

IC engines have a gearbox within the transmission line. This gearbox is
there to compensate for the inadequacies of the IC engines power and torque
delivery. The gearbox can be manual shifted, auto shifted or auto by use of
pullies and belts (pullies and belts is referred to as a CVT). The gearbox
takes power in and "transmits it out, it is "not" a power source.

snip garbage from a know-it-all who thinks
he knows something an has realised he is wrong

The Toyota does not have a gearbox, of the manual, auto, or CVT variety. It
has "two" power sources, a petrol motor and an electric motor simultaneously
directing power to the wheels, via differential, shafts, etc. This means a
"gearbox" is not required to sit between the two power sources and the
differential, shafts and wheels.

Now read the above and repeat it to yourself 10 times.

I give you 1/10 for comprehension and must try harder. I gave you -10 for
attitude. BTW, how is the swirly patterned carpet?

"Matt" wrote in message
...
"Doctor Drivel" wrote:

You are a total madman. The Prius has the engine and electric motor
power
simultaneously to elinminate a gearbox/CVT. I know, I have one.

http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/2005/prius/specs.html

Oh dear, just look what it says: "Transmission: Electronically
controlled continuously variable transmission (ECVT) "

It has a transmission, but no gearbox. They are not the same thing. See
the reply to the Rum Bugger. And repeat it to yourself 10 times.

There, there.

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 00:28:19 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


Still no getting stuff past you is there .. (oh and we are laughing at
you not with you ..

No you are not. You are laughing at sweet FA. It figures as you have a
Rover.

From the Prius Web site:

"Remarkably, the petrol engine / electric motor combinanation performs
like a diesel family saloon ... "

So, it performs just like my Rover but cost 160 times as much ...

No it doesn't. It is super quiet and smooth (no gearbox) and doesn't ruin
the planet. You don't pull up in front of the pub driving that Rover do
you? The shame of it. You will have to pay people to take it away.

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 10:22:11 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"dennis@home" wrote in message
.uk...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
(The CAT on my car works so well you can't measure the pollutants at
an
MOT test station.)

But they don't measure CO2 which is the major greenhouse gas. And
burning
any fossil fuel produces this.

No but like stated elsewhere its better to burn the fuel in the car
than
in
a powerstation and then convert it to something else to burn in the
car.

NO. The IC engine is hopelessly inefficient. The Stirling is twice the
efficiency on average, and there are ongoing experiments with the
Stirling
and the Toyota hybrid transmission. That will throw the mpg up by about
100%. Have longer range batteries charged from the grid overnight as
well
as on-board, and 200mpg is achievable. Stirling engines are used in
micro
CHP boilers because they are far superior to the IC engine.

So, your IC engine spins a genny (losses) and charges the battery
(losses) and / or propels the car forward via the CVT (losses).

No CVT so wrong, so snip the rest

With a conventional system your IC engine propels the car forward
through the CVT / gearbox (losses)

Fact, every time you convert energy from one form to another there
will be losses, something that the great Gods Toyota and Toshiba can't
stop.

Ok, let's try to be serious for a second (like we havent tried).

The Prius can eliminate KERBSIDE emmissions for (currently in the UK)
about 5 miles (not a bad thing).

The Prius looks and drives fairly traditionally (compared with many
earlier offerings).

The Prius has a complex combination
of transmission / engery source
options combined using a clever / simple
device

It is NOT complex, just have been told that. It is complex for people to
understand. It far fewer parts than an IC engine/auto g/box.

(traditional gearboxes are not
generally a common point of
failure and are often sealed for
life).

They are an expensive form of failure in auto form, and in manual the clutch
only lasts 60,00 miles or so, so frequent service/failure there.

The Prius does have 'low' emmissions
but not substantially lower than
many more 'traditional' counterparts.

Look up please.

Out of interest, why did they give
you £1500+ off when there is a
waiting list?

Government grant of £1,000, because of its low emissions. It is a fund and
when low you may not get the grant. If these other cars you are on about
are as low as the Prius they would get the grant, but surprise, surprise,
they do not, because they are not as low as the Prius.

Doctor Drivel wrote:

No one mentioned gearboxes, or pullys, or
belts other than you. We wer
just establishing it has a transmission.


You clearly do not understand the difference between a transmission and
gearbox. "All" cars, electric, or petrol, have transmissions. They
requi

A gearbox is a potential part of a transmission - although not present
in all.

- a differential,

again not always a requirement (not many found on motorbikes for
example) - but usually present.

- drive shafts,

see above

They are part of the "transmission".
A transmission transmits power from the power source to the wheels.
Remember that.

Yes you are learning... good.

IC engines have a gearbox within the transmission line. This gearbox is

Not always. My mower and my boat have IC engines. Neither have gearboxes.

The prius does not have a conventional gearbox - although obviously it
has gear wheels arranged in a planatary setup. You perhaps ought to read
up on it.

there to compensate for the inadequacies of the IC engines power and torque
delivery. The gearbox can be manual shifted, auto shifted or auto by use of
pullies and belts (pullies and belts is referred to as a CVT).

Innacurately. It is not a whole transmission, just a CV gearbox. You
might have spotted that if you knew a bit more about mechanics.

The gearbox
takes power in and "transmits it out, it is "not" a power source.

Yes, so what?

The Toyota does not have a gearbox, of the manual, auto, or CVT variety. It

Yes, so what?

It has a CV transmission however. The fact that there is no conventional
gearbox in there is not relevant.

has "two" power sources, a petrol motor and an electric motor simultaneously
directing power to the wheels, via differential, shafts, etc. This means a

Yes, so what?

"gearbox" is not required to sit between the two power sources and the
differential, shafts and wheels.

Yes, so what?

Now read the above and repeat it to yourself 10 times.

No thanks, it was an obvious attempt at calling night day again.

I give you 1/10 for comprehension and must try harder. I gave you -10 for

Gosh, as much as you can get from your regen braking...

attitude. BTW, how is the swirly patterned carpet?

Don't you have one in your prius?


A Reel of lead free please....

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
Edward W. Thompson wrote:
Nevertheless power generated with machines that are 50% efficient
using low grade fuel (heavy oil) is less 'expensive' than power from
an IC engine fitted to an automobile.

I'd say it would depend at what point in time. Vehicle engines are being
improved all the time - and I'd say much more research money goes into
this than improving power stations. The big improvement in the UK with
those came with the 'dash for gas'.

I am assuming that the emissions from the machines at central power
stations are appropriately treated.

Somehow, I doubt they are - to the same extent as a car.

Electric vehicles are more environmentally friendly overall with
respect to emissions than IC powered vehicles,

At the point of use, yes.

however, whether they are more economically viable, when all factors are
taken into consideration, is clearly open to debate. The
economics/costs associated with pollution are beyond me but are clearly
very real.

Yes. But with so many vested interests, very difficult to get any true
figures. You'd also have to take into account the energy and pollution
caused by making and scrapping any vehicle as well as the energy and
pollution it causes while in use.

The exchanges in this thread on what is a serious issue is would not
do credit to a ten year old.

That's life. I'm sure you could find hundreds of newsgroups devoted to
serious discussion of that topic. Although they'll be even fuller of
nutcases than this one.

--
*I went to school to become a wit, only got halfway through.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
The exchanges in this thread on what is a serious issue is would not
do credit to a ten year old.

I agree.

Yup. I'm waiting with baited breath for your 10th birthday.

--
*I brake for no apparent reason.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Doctor Drivel wrote:

It has a transmission, but no gearbox.

True (so long as you refrain from describing the planatary gearbox as a
geearbox)...

They are not the same thing.

True... but also irrelevant.

It stall has CVT. Saying it does not will not change that.

See
the reply to the Rum Bugger. And repeat it to yourself 10 times.

No point, it was nonsense.


4G header tank please...

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Very little in fact. The maximum output from the motor is tiny compared
to the braking power required. So even capturing all of it you are not
much better off.

Stop making things up.

So your car accelerates as quickly as it brakes?

Leave it in the garage and walk. It's a danger to everone. It wouldn't
pass an MOT by a mile.

--
*The longest recorded flightof a chicken is thirteen seconds *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
It doesn't have a CVT. Look on the web,

I have and it does, although to anyone with mechanical knowledge it has to
have, since the petrol engine drives the car directly at speed, and no
petrol engine can do this with fixed gearing. You really are so dense.

If the petrol engine *only* drove the generator, and the electric motors
were powerful enough for all requirements, then you could possibly do
without the CVT. But this would make the economy far far worse.

Give your URL for the description where it omits a CVT. I've given you two
showing it.

--
* I like you. You remind me of when I was young and stupid

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

PC Paul wrote:

So that's 95.5 kW.

It's just about feasible, but only at dedicated 'filling stations' with
their own electrical substation. You won't be plugging it in at home...

A whole 6.5Ah huh... got more than that with my Makita ;-)

Minor point, but a real EV would need hundreds of times more battery
capacity than a prius, which puts the "one minute recharge" numbers back
into cloud drivel land again. ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Doctor Drivel wrote:

It is not slow. It can do 100mph, which is way far above the max speed
limit.

And take how long to get there?

As I said, dog slow...

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Not available yet. And the Prius is still the best car in the world.

Can't see how, its dog slow.

It is not slow. It can do 100mph, which is way far above the max speed
limit.

And at 100mph, it's managing all of 15 mpg. What a dreadfully compromised
design. Best to keep it in town where it can't do any harm.

--
*I used up all my sick days so I called in dead

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Have longer range batteries charged from the grid overnight as well
as on-board, and 200mpg is achievable.

Your lack of logic is beyond belief.

--
*Succeed, in spite of management *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 13:03:10 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Matt" wrote in message
.. .
"Doctor Drivel" wrote:

You are a total madman. The Prius has the engine and electric motor
power
simultaneously to elinminate a gearbox/CVT. I know, I have one.

http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/2005/prius/specs.html

Oh dear, just look what it says: "Transmission: Electronically
controlled continuously variable transmission (ECVT) "

It has a transmission, but no gearbox.

Would that transmission be continiously variable by any chance
shrug?

If the IC engine runs in a series of efficent 'speeds' then these
would need to coupled to the wheels via some sort of 'stepless'
transmission?

T i m

In article ,
T i m wrote:
"Remarkably, the petrol engine / electric motor combinanation performs
like a diesel family saloon ... "

So, it performs just like my Rover but cost 160 times as much ...

If you look at some real world figures for average non rush hour town
travel, the Prius beats a BMW 330d by a mere 1 mpg. And that BMW diesel is
an extremely fast car. Take any other diesel with a similar performance to
the Prius and it is simply *far* more economical for all day to day
driving.

--
*One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Doctor Drivel wrote:

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...

Doctor Drivel wrote:


To get regen you have to moving, to get moving you
consume energy, you recoup *some* energy but not much. It will reduce
the overall emmissions but not by much.


Quite a bit. More if the have the new Toshiba battery.

Very little in fact. The maximum output from the motor is tiny compared
to the braking power required. So even capturing all of it you are not
much better off.


Stop making things up.

I have given you figures to prove what I am saying. Now provide yours if
you feel competent to defend your assertion.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
But no gearbox or CVT with pullies and belts.

No one mentioned gearboxes, or pullys, or belts other than you. We wer
just establishing it has a transmission.

You don't even need to bother. It has a conventional CTV, belts and
pulleys and all. Which commonly disintegrate at modest mileage for an
auto, and are very expensive to repair.

--
*Why is it that most nudists are people you don't want to see naked?*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Doctor Drivel wrote:

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...

Doctor Drivel wrote:


No. Discourage the car. It is clogging the whole country up.

How can that be? I thought we only used 7.5% of it?


It clogs up the 7.5% Boy are you dumb.

You just said "the whole country"... now you are confused.

Ball valve please...

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Very little in fact. The maximum output from the motor is tiny
compared to the braking power required. So even capturing all of it
you are not much better off.

Stop making things up.

So your car accelerates as quickly as it brakes?

Leave it in the garage and walk. It's a danger to everone. It wouldn't
pass an MOT by a mile.

*Or* it does 0-60 in under 3s.. in which case he should *still* leave it at
home.... you need to think quickly if you have that much power under your
foot...

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
It doesn't have a CVT. Look on the web,

I have and it does, although to anyone with mechanical knowledge it
has to have, since the petrol engine drives the car directly at
speed, and no petrol engine can do this with fixed gearing. You
really are so dense.

If the petrol engine *only* drove the generator, and the electric
motors were powerful enough for all requirements, then you could
possibly do without the CVT. But this would make the economy far far
worse.

Give your URL for the description where it omits a CVT. I've given
you two showing it.

I know you two are just picking at each other, *but* I think this is all
down to temrinology.

It has a continuously variable transmission of power from the two motors to
the driven wheels. So it does have a CVT. Sort of.

It doesn't have a slipping belts/moving cones/tilting toroids 'conventional'
CVT. It only has the fixed planetary, always meshed, geared system.

Take your pick.

It's clever, that's certain.

Also the planetary bit is tiny - much much smaller than any conventional
'box.

"Doctor Drivel" wrote:

It has a transmission, but no gearbox. They are not the same thing.

Well that's a first, better tell all the mechanical engineers
worldwide about that.

But before you snip do read on..............

So, for the second time of asking what did you receive through the
post from Toyota UK last year Drivel? Every Prius owner would know
this.


--

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
But no gearbox or CVT with pullies and belts.

No one mentioned gearboxes, or pullys, or belts other than you. We
wer just establishing it has a transmission.

You don't even need to bother. It has a conventional CTV, belts and
pulleys and all. Which commonly disintegrate at modest mileage for an
auto, and are very expensive to repair.

Got a link for that? I'm independent here, but I have looked into the
planetary box and I can't see why they'd need a conventional CVT in there
too...

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 13:44:50 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

PC Paul wrote:

So that's 95.5 kW.

It's just about feasible, but only at dedicated 'filling stations' with
their own electrical substation. You won't be plugging it in at home...

A whole 6.5Ah huh... got more than that with my Makita ;-)

Minor point, but a real EV would need hundreds of times more battery
capacity than a prius, which puts the "one minute recharge" numbers back
into cloud drivel land again. ;-)

My 'real EV' has a 400Ah 48V (~20KW) battery (8 x 6V) ;-)

'Cruising' at 30 mph it pulls 200A

Handy for jump starting mates cars as well ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
eenews.net...

(traditional gearboxes are not
generally a common point of
failure and are often sealed for
life).

They are an expensive form of failure in auto form, and in manual the
clutch
only lasts 60,00 miles or so, so frequent service/failure there.


If you break clutches every 60,000 miles then you need driving lessons.
I have never had to repair a clutch even though I usally do 100,000-120,000
before I replace the car.

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 10:10:47 +0100, Doctor Drivel wrote:


The Cooper is BMC. 1966, same year as the DB6


So, both over 25 years old then.

Didn't you say 25 year old cars should be crushed ?

Phil Young

"John Rumm" stupidly wote in message
...

IC engines have a gearbox within
the transmission line. This gearbox is

Not always. My mower and my boat have
IC engines. Neither have gearboxes.

The point is a 4 wheeled car is in question not a boat. You must learn to
focus..

It has a CV transmission however.

Totally wrong again. No gearings or sliding belted CV ratios at all.

The fact that there is no conventional
gearbox in there is not relevant.

It is, as you were saying there was a conventional CVT, There is not, There
is no gearbox. None, Nil, No, ZILTCH

You didn't understand the setup, wrote crap about it and are now trying to
squirm out. Keep wriggling.

has "two" power sources, a petrol motor
and an electric motor simultaneously
directing power to the wheels, via differential,
shafts, etc. This means a

Yes, so what?

What is means is ...a "gearbox" is not required to sit between the two power
sources and the differential, shafts and wheels. Understand that.

Yes, so what?

So, no CVT as you claim. NO gearbox. This is fun!

Now read the above and repeat it to yourself 10 times.

Now again: read the above and repeat it to yourself 10 times.

How is the swirly patterned carpet?

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Not available yet. And the Prius is still the best car in the world.

Can't see how, its dog slow.

It is not slow. It can do 100mph, which is way far above the max speed
limit.

And at 100mph, it's managing all of 15 mpg. What a dreadfully compromised
design. Best to keep it in town where it can't do any harm.

Even better to keep it in the toy box along with his DB6 ;-)

I'd hazard a guess that environmentally he might be better off running
a full size DB6 than buy a new Prius. Lets face it he spends 23 hours
a day in here arguing the toss about some crap from Japan (combi
boiler/car/you name it) so an hour a day in a DB6, particularly in the
middle of the night across London could make quite an efficient means
of transport.

Still waiting for the name of your Aston's engine builder Drivel. Not
even managed to google something or just make it up? Are your Aston
Martin leaflets stored in another council flat?


--

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 13:15:28 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


The Prius has a complex combination
of transmission / engery source
options combined using a clever / simple
device

It is NOT complex, just have been told that. It is complex for people to
understand. It far fewer parts than an IC engine/auto g/box.

IC Car
1) Engine / clutch / gearbox
2) Fuel tank

Primus
1) Engine / magic variable transmission that provides constantly
variable gear ratios that isn't a CVT.
2) Fuel Tank
3) Battery
4) Motor
5) Generator?
6) Power management computer / actuators


(traditional gearboxes are not
generally a common point of
failure and are often sealed for
life).

They are an expensive form of failure in auto form, and in manual the clutch
only lasts 60,00 miles or so, so frequent service/failure there.

60,000 miles = 'frequent'? My Sierra did 97k in 22 years so frequent
for *me* would be every ~13 years? Lots of modern cars have the clutch
that can be changed with everything in situ. A *new* Renault Megan
gearbox is £500 and any garage could fit it .. I wonder (outside of
Toyota) who would fix yours?

Out of interest, why did they give
you £1500+ off when there is a
waiting list?

Government grant of £1,000, because of its low emissions. It is a fund and
when low you may not get the grant. If these other cars you are on about
are as low as the Prius they would get the grant, but surprise, surprise,
they do not, because they are not as low as the Prius.

Do you pay road Tax (if so how much?) (or should you be paying road
tax rather?).

T i m

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 13:35:58 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:


The exchanges in this thread on what is a serious issue is would not
do credit to a ten year old.

That's life. I'm sure you could find hundreds of newsgroups devoted to
serious discussion of that topic. Although they'll be even fuller of
nutcases than this one.

Like the 'Power-Assist' forum I watch now and again. ;-)

*Most* of the discussion is quite reasonable .. then you get the heavy
biases from folk with vested interest or axes to grind (or as you
mention, just ESN.

*I'd* have to say the uk.d-i-y has a good mix of great advice,
reasoned views and good humour.. ;-)

Oh, and there's Drivel ..

All the best ..

T i m

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 13:05:45 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


So, it performs just like my Rover but cost 160 times as much ...

No it doesn't.

Yes it does? I paid £100 for the rover you paid £16,00 for your thing?

It is super quiet and smooth (no gearbox) and doesn't ruin
the planet.

I've never had a problem coping with gearboxes .. obviously a problem
for you else why yer 'Auto only' licence (you do have a licence don't
you ?)

You don't pull up in front of the pub driving that Rover do
you?

No, I use the car park provided. I'm not a poser.

The shame of it.

For someone as shallow as a puddle of **** maybe ..?

You will have to pay people to take it away.

Ok, I pay fifty quid to have it taken away then my total cost of
ownership is £150. You lost 10 x more than that as they handed you the
key (sucker).

Keep trying .. oh, and some Boss White please ..

T i m

"PC Paul" wrote in message
.uk...
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
It doesn't have a CVT. Look on the web,

I have and it does, although to anyone with mechanical knowledge it
has to have, since the petrol engine drives the car directly at
speed, and no petrol engine can do this with fixed gearing. You
really are so dense.

If the petrol engine *only* drove the generator, and the electric
motors were powerful enough for all requirements, then you could
possibly do without the CVT. But this would make the economy far far
worse.

Give your URL for the description where it omits a CVT. I've given
you two showing it.

I know you two are just picking at each other, *but* I think this is all
down to temrinology.

It has a continuously variable transmission of power from the two motors
to
the driven wheels. So it does have a CVT. Sort of.

There is NO CVT. Even sort of.

- The electric motor can be lead and the petrol motor comes in to assist to
deliver the required power/torque to the wheels.
-Or the petrol motor can be lead and the electric motor comes in to assist
to deliver the required power/torque to the wheels.

No box of gear or belts or pullies between the motors and the diff. All
done by applying the correct amount of power/torque using TWO power sources.
NO gearbox/CVT That is clear. The lunatic has just posted that there is a
CVT with pullies. Someone should call the clinic.

It doesn't have a slipping belts/moving
cones/tilting toroids 'conventional'
CVT. It only has the fixed planetary,
always meshed, geared system.

Always meshed, just another point before the diff, and it is no gearbox. No
box of cogs or belts.

Also the planetary bit is tiny - much
much smaller than any conventional
'box.

Yep.

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 14:29:57 +0100, Matt
wrote:

"Doctor Drivel" wrote:

It has a transmission, but no gearbox. They are not the same thing.

Well that's a first, better tell all the mechanical engineers
worldwide about that.

But before you snip do read on..............

So, for the second time of asking what did you receive through the
post from Toyota UK last year Drivel?

A refusal for his application to the Prius Owners Club?

T i m

"PC Paul" wrote in message
o.uk...
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
But no gearbox or CVT with pullies and belts.

No one mentioned gearboxes, or pullys, or belts other than you. We
wer just establishing it has a transmission.

You don't even need to bother. It has a conventional CTV, belts and
pulleys and all. Which commonly disintegrate at modest mileage for an
auto, and are very expensive to repair.

Got a link for that? I'm independent here, but I have looked into the
planetary box and I can't see why they'd need a conventional CVT in there
too...

You see why he called the lunatic.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

It has a transmission, but no gearbox.

True (so long as you refrain from
describing the planatary gearbox as a
geearbox)...

It is "not" a gearbox. A part of the transmisison but no gearbox.

They are not the same thing.

True... but also irrelevant.

Relevant because you lack understanding of the fundamentals.

It stall has CVT. Saying it does not will not change that.

It has NO CVT.

Power is applied simultaneously to the transmission/wheels from two motors:

1. A petrol motor
2. An electric motor

Which means...no gearbox required. Got it? Nah, you haven't

Now read all my posts on this. Read them 4 times.