Mary Fisher wrote:

So I'll axe my participation now ...

You got me stumped girl... ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message , Mary
Fisher writes

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Stefek Zaba wrote:

Fir goodness' sake, not that old chestnut again. A beech of basic
netiquette, I call it; at the risk of coming across hollier-than-bough,
I'd suggest you'd better sloe down with the tree puns.

I realise that my comments may not be poplar, but while I am at the elm of
this computer I shall dig deep and write what I want on any hawthorny
subject, and not bough to pressure from weeping willow types to
desist-duous! Hmm they are getting worse, perhaps I ought to get my coat
and leaf.

There was an item on Radio 4 tonight which said that punning was mostly a
male activity, along the lindes of "My pun's bigger than yours."

So I'll axe my participation now ...

Mary

Don't you have big puns then Mary ?

--
geoff

"raden" wrote in message
...

Don't you have big puns then Mary ?

I'm not a man, I don't need them:-)

Mary

--
geoff

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:14:51 +0000, Frank Erskine wrote:

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:19:27 GMT, John Stumbles
wrote:

Tony Bryer wrote:

In article , John Stumbles
wrote:
You don't need to have a coffin. Cemeteries will accept a body in
a
shroud. However you can go to the following websites for info on
where
to purchase coffins from about £50 upwards.
http://www.eco-coffins.com/
http://www.naturaldeath.org.uk/

yesbut then they're not DIY, are they? :-)

OK perhaps I can suggest http://www.funeral.org.uk/only.htm :

"Chipboard Coffin £65
No hardwood content. The coffin is supplied without fittings,
interior or plate. It is ideal for painting by the customer."

I think that painting it will make it qualify as DIY.

No, must at least be self-assembly with an instruction sheet comprising
incomprehensible diagrams and no text or pidgin english, and selection of
fastenings not matching in number, size or position the various holes and
cutouts in the wooden pieces. Oh, and at least one piece of cardboard which
it's unclear whether it's part of the thing you're making or just
packaging.

Perhaps IKEA do one with a silly name...

Um they have to have a faint connotation to a word or two in some
other euro-tongue and also over-state the case i.e. Atlant (sink)
Integral (hinge).

so perhaps

Sepulkra


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 14:49:01 +0100, Stefek Zaba wrote:

John Rumm wrote:


Don`t you find after the first few, you get sycamore?

Fir goodness' sake, not that old chestnut again. A beech of basic
netiquette, I call it; at the risk of coming across hollier-than-bough,
I'd suggest you'd better sloe down with the tree puns.

A few salutree words from yew there.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

Mary Fisher wrote:

I'm not a man, I don't need them:-)

Ah, but a good pun is its own reword...

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article , Mary
Fisher wrote:
Many years ago I read The AmericanWay of Death. It sickened me and
I determined then not to have anything to do with the awful
business. The closer I get to death the more determined I am.

You can do it yourself if you really are determined to (q.v. the book
'Undertaken with love') but most of us would rather entrust what has
to be done to someone who has the knowledge and experience and who
will not take advantage of our situation. The same is true of people
engaging emergency plumbers, motorway breakdown services and many
other distress purchases of course.

I do think that there are more than a few firms in the funeral
business who do want to work in an ethical way. When my father died
the FD said [1988] "our cheapest funeral is £480: you can spend a lot
more than this if you wish but we will give you the same service
regardless of how much you spend" and there was no pressure
whatsoever to spend any more than we wanted (which was one up from
the cheapest). Ironically the firm concerned was taken over by SCI
and ended up on World in Action for following a somewhat different
approach. Since then there have been three series on TV following
life behind the scenes in different London undertakers and in each
case the people concerned have come across as just the sort one would
wish to deal with if the situation arose.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm
[Latest version QSEDBUK 1.10 released 4 April 2005]

On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 14:49:01 +0100, Stefek Zaba
wrote:

John Rumm wrote:


Don`t you find after the first few, you get sycamore?

Fir goodness' sake, not that old chestnut again. A beech of basic
netiquette, I call it; at the risk of coming across hollier-than-bough,
I'd suggest you'd better sloe down with the tree puns.


OK, I twig that you win the prize. I can't match that, even with a
splinter group.

--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 23:18:54 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"raden" wrote in message
...

Don't you have big puns then Mary ?

I'm not a man, I don't need them:-)



40 30.




--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 16:19:05 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Andy Hall wrote:


Is that meant to be a j-oak?

your 'avin a larch...

'apple he'll stop soon.

Aye..... apple....

A champion comment.




--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Tony Bryer" wrote in message

Many years ago I read The American Way of Death. It sickened me and
I determined then not to have anything to do with the awful
business. The closer I get to death the more determined I am.

You can do it yourself if you really are determined to (q.v. the book
'Undertaken with love')

There are many resources, the best I've found are from the Natural Death
handbook - which has far more information than how to do a funerals.
Including how to make various coffins, to go back to the topic.

but most of us would rather entrust what has
to be done to someone who has the knowledge and experience and who
will not take advantage of our situation.

How do you know they won't take advantage of the situation?

A daughter used to baby-sit for someone who lived over a 'chapel of rest'
(what a silly name, as bad as 'funeral home'). Their low rent was because
they had the duty of allowing visitors to view the stiffs - sorry, loved
ones. 'Stiffs' was the word the undertakers used.

There's a church at the bottom of our street, we have a lot of funeral
services there. The undertakers, those caring people with knowledge and
experience and with the utmost concern for the bereaved, loll around outside
while the service is going on, smoking. It hardly adds dignity to the event.

As for taking advantage, when my mother in law died one of her
grand-daughters, who makes her living as a cabinet maker, wanted to make a
carved oak box for her ashes, it would be buried. The undertakers fought
hard about this, they were going to lose money by not being able to sell one
of their nasty plastic 'urns'. They said it would be illegal. That it would
have to be exactly the right size and no girl would be able to make one to
the right spec. That the cemetery only allowed their plastic
(non-degradable) things.

Of course they were arguing with the wrong person, me.

Mother in law's sons and grandsons also wanted to bear her coffin, as with
the cabinet maker it was to be their last act of love. I told the
undertakers that this would happen, they said they couldn't, they'd look
like ducks and be out of step, they'd drop it, that it was illegal (why they
kept saying that I don't know!)

Their protestations were overcome, one grandson is a serving sergeant in the
Royal Air Force, one son had been in the Army, the other in the Army Cadets.
They trained the younger members and were perfectly disciplined. The RAF one
wore his uniform, it was very dignified and moving.

Exactly the same procedures happened when father in law died, the
undertakers by that time had learned not to argue with the (now) mater
familias.

What knowledge and experience is needed? Unless, of course, you're thinking
about the dreadful practices of 'preparing the body'. There's nothing
necessary except, perhaps, washing, which can be done with love by those
closest to the dead person instead of the indignity of being handled by
strangers.

Do you NEED a black (or grey) car with uniformed driver? If an estate or van
or SUV has been good enough while you're alive what's wrong with using it
for your last journey?

What other services are provided by undertakers? Services can be planned and
arranged and undertaken by family and friends instead of strangers, if
they're wanted. Local authorities will deal direct with families instead of
only through undertakers, no matter what the latter tell you. I really can't
think of anything which isn't simpler and BETTER done by family than it is
through an unknown third party.

Well there's the bun fight of course. Sometimes it's done in an hotel or
worse, pub I find those miserable and time-limited affairs. The two best
I've been to were when everyone came back here after m-i-l's funeral,
unexpectedly, and we had biscuits and an impromptu slide show of earlier
days and another when we all went back to the church hall for curry and
dancing.

The same is true of people
engaging emergency plumbers, motorway breakdown services and many
other distress purchases of course.

Those examples don't compare with preparing a body for burial and, indeed,
burying it. It's the custom among many Caribbean families for the friends
and family members to dig the grave. Spouse was once involved in this when
he took the place of a son who wasn't allowed leave for a dear friend's
funeral. Isn't it better for that to happen than for a JCB to do the job?
There's no need for a 'chapel of rest'. Such places are modern developments,
another way of making money. Mother in law stayed with her husband after she
died, until her body was taken to the crematorium. It always happened in the
past. We went back days later to bury her ashes - in the beautiful box
bearing her name, carved not on a brass plate - and her son took a trowel
and dug the hole without asking. The undertaker was redundant.

There are many modern practices - and more coming along all the time.
They're now regarded as essential, they're not. A whole other industry has
grown, such as 'bereavement counselling'. This always used to happen of
course, families and friends, priests or other religious ministers and other
professionals who KNEW the bereaved and the dead person would be there to
listen and offer advice and actual help if it were needed. Now it's all done
by specially trained professionals - strangers. I'm horrified when I go to
funerals and the officiating person knows absolutely nothing about any of
the participants. He has usually visited and gleaned some biographical
details for his address but it doesn't work. In my mother in law's case the
minister talked at length about her cycling activities when she was young.
The hall was packed with the enormous family of which she was the
progenitor, her great achievements in bearing and bringing up those people
wasn't mentioned at all, they felt insignificant. Which is more important as
a legacy of a life, wheels or people?

I do think that there are more than a few firms in the funeral
business who do want to work in an ethical way.

I'm sure you're right, but how do you know which they are?

When my father died
the FD said [1988] "our cheapest funeral is £480: you can spend a lot
more than this if you wish but we will give you the same service
regardless of how much you spend" and there was no pressure
whatsoever to spend any more than we wanted (which was one up from
the cheapest). Ironically the firm concerned was taken over by SCI
and ended up on World in Action for following a somewhat different
approach. Since then there have been three series on TV following
life behind the scenes in different London undertakers and in each
case the people concerned have come across as just the sort one would
wish to deal with if the situation arose.

That, with respect, is meaningless. What you see on television or in the
papers is what's been chosen to be featured.

This is something I feel very strongly about as will have been realised by
anyone wading to the end of this post - congratulations :-)

If people feel that they have to do something because it's the done thing
that's up to them but it shouldn't be forced on those who think for
themselves.

Mary

Mary Fisher wrote:

"Adrian C" wrote in message
...

Eccentric welsh landlady

Off planet type interests indeed! You mean she believed in God?

OK, just star signs and the SDP (at that time also off the Planet)

I don't think Mary you've got any competition out there? :-)

--
Adrian

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:

I'm not a man, I don't need them:-)

Ah, but a good pun is its own reword...

Brilliant!

Mary

In article , Mary
Fisher wrote:

The undertakers, those caring people with knowledge and experience
and with the utmost concern for the bereaved, loll around outside
while the service is going on, smoking. It hardly adds dignity to
the event.

In many smaller firms the bearers are not undertakers as such,
probably firemen on their day off (nice little earners like this are
why you should take their pay claims with a pinch of salt)

I do think that there are more than a few firms in the funeral
business who do want to work in an ethical way.

I'm sure you're right, but how do you know which they are?

That is the big question. And of course when SCI/Dignity or whoever
buy a family firm the one thing they do not do is change the name so
that they can trade on the goodwill of the formerly independent
business, notwithstanding that the ethic may now be very different.
One of the great scandals - IMHO of course - was in the late 1990's
when SCI were getting so much bad press. The one party, Age Concern,
who might have been interested said nothing whilst continuing to sell
Age Concern branded SCI funeral plans for healthy commissions.

In any case recommendation can only take you so far, in that unless
you are in the business or have arranged lots of funerals you are
unlikely to know how good the firm really is - you probably recognise
bad treatment, but not mediocrity: to get back on topic much as lay
people employing plumbers and electricians: they just don't have the
knowledge to know how good a job has been done - and why should they?

As I've lived in the same place all my life and have been in the same
church since I was six I have been to ?50 funerals and have seen
those who do a better or worse job of directing: IMO there's a fine
balance between being too directive and failing to give that little
bit of guidance that would be appreciated. And fortunately in most
cases the funeral has been taken by someone who knew the deceased
well and so can talk meaningfully about them: for me this is the
biggest determinant of how 'good' a funeral is.

That, with respect, is meaningless. What you see on television or
in the papers is what's been chosen to be featured.

The three that have been in the fly-on-the-wall documentaries have
obviously chosen to be so, and one would expect them to be firms who
reckon that the exposure will do them no harm. One of them, Gillmans,
www.funeral.org.uk (not quite sure about the ethics of that URL) has
been a Natural Death Centre's award winner. Perhaps they are rogues
but the open approach of their website with all the prices and an
expressed willingness to help anyone who wants to DIY with free
advice and menu pricing for particular services does strike a very
positive note with me.


--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm
[Latest version QSEDBUK 1.10 released 4 April 2005]

"Adrian C" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:

Eccentric welsh landlady

Off planet type interests indeed! You mean she believed in God?

OK, just star signs and the SDP (at that time also off the Planet)

I don't think Mary you've got any competition out there? :-)

No ... but I don't do star signs!

I used to sterilise my mead-making equipment with SDP ...

Mary

--
Adrian

On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 10:58:12 +0100, Adrian C wrote:

Mary Fisher wrote:

"Adrian C" wrote in message
...

Eccentric welsh landlady

Off planet type interests indeed! You mean she believed in God?

OK, just star signs and the SDP (at that time also off the Planet)

No change there then.......



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , Alan Holmes
writes

In Corrie recently, one of the characters who was dying, made arrangements
for a DIY coffin to be delivered.

Does anyone know if these things are really available, and where from?

Get some wood and DIY ... in between coronation street episodes

Have you got a plan/design?

--
alan

reply to alan(dot)holmes27(at)virgin(dot)net

--
geoff

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
...
Tony Bryer wrote:

In article , John Stumbles
wrote:
You don't need to have a coffin. Cemeteries will accept a body in
a
shroud. However you can go to the following websites for info on
where
to purchase coffins from about £50 upwards.
http://www.eco-coffins.com/
http://www.naturaldeath.org.uk/

yesbut then they're not DIY, are they? :-)

OK perhaps I can suggest http://www.funeral.org.uk/only.htm :

"Chipboard Coffin £65
No hardwood content. The coffin is supplied without fittings,
interior or plate. It is ideal for painting by the customer."

I think that painting it will make it qualify as DIY.

No, must at least be self-assembly with an instruction sheet comprising
incomprehensible diagrams and no text or pidgin english, and selection of
fastenings not matching in number, size or position the various holes and
cutouts in the wooden pieces. Oh, and at least one piece of cardboard
which
it's unclear whether it's part of the thing you're making or just
packaging.

That's just the sort of thing, the lady who was trying to assmble the one in
Corrie was having trouble matching the dowels to the holes!(:-)

--
alan

reply to alan(dot)holmes27(at)virgin(dot)net


;-)

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 10:48:01 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"dave @ stejonda" wrote in message
...
In message , Frank Erskine
writes
Perhaps IKEA do one with a silly name...

well almost Ikea:
http://home.arcor.de/edwink/anzeigen/coffin.jpg

or there's always Costco (readymade though):
http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product...rodid=11009034

Aren't they ghastly!


I am sure that they are appropriate for the customer base....

Do you think the customer would really be worried?(:-)

--
alan

reply to alan(dot)holmes27(at)virgin(dot)net




--

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
news:zjf8e.6560$443.1125@newsfe3-
yesbut then they're not DIY, are they? :-)

OK perhaps I can suggest http://www.funeral.org.uk/only.htm :

"Chipboard Coffin £65
No hardwood content. The coffin is supplied without fittings,
interior or plate. It is ideal for painting by the customer."

I think that painting it will make it qualify as DIY.

No, must at least be self-assembly with an instruction sheet comprising
incomprehensible diagrams and no text or pidgin english, and selection of
fastenings not matching in number, size or position the various holes and
cutouts in the wooden pieces. Oh, and at least one piece of cardboard
which
it's unclear whether it's part of the thing you're making or just
packaging.

;-)

I think you should start with an acorn.

I have got a walnut!

--
alan

reply to alan(dot)holmes27(at)virgin(dot)net


Mary

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message


Funerals are a disgusting trade, replete with rip-offs and
excessive markups.

I couldn't agree more.

My family has full instructions on what's to happen to us when we pop off.
No stranger must have anything to do with our bodies or the celebrations
or burial. Money saved will be used for the Party of Parties.

Hurrah! Got rid of the old gits at last! I've begun a collection of
champagne and have made a shroud. It will have to be re-used for the
other.

But will crematoriums accept shrouds?

I want dance music to be played at my funeral.

--
alan

reply to alan(dot)holmes27(at)virgin(dot)net


Mary

"Alan Holmes" wrote in message
...

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , Alan Holmes
writes

In Corrie recently, one of the characters who was dying, made
arrangements
for a DIY coffin to be delivered.

Does anyone know if these things are really available, and where from?

Get some wood and DIY ... in between coronation street episodes

Have you got a plan/design?

Need to know your dimensions ... honest ones!

Mary

--
alan

reply to alan(dot)holmes27(at)virgin(dot)net

--
geoff

"Alan Holmes" wrote in message
...


Funerals are a disgusting trade, replete with rip-offs and
excessive markups.

I couldn't agree more.

My family has full instructions on what's to happen to us when we pop
off. No stranger must have anything to do with our bodies or the
celebrations or burial. Money saved will be used for the Party of
Parties.

Hurrah! Got rid of the old gits at last! I've begun a collection of
champagne and have made a shroud. It will have to be re-used for the
other.

But will crematoriums accept shrouds?

I'm not going to a crematorium. It's environmentally unfriendly.

I want dance music to be played at my funeral.

They can play whatever they like at mine but I doubt they'll want music.As
long as there's enough champagne they'll be happy.

Oh - you mean at the ceremony? Yes, a friend and I pledged years ago that
I'd officiate at his or he at mine and we'd have dancing in the aisles.
Trouble is, he's disappeared ...

You don't need a ceremony in a dedicated building of course. Or at all.

What annoys me is that I can't dictate what will happen to my corpse, it
becomes the property of my next of kin and they can do what they like with
it. That's a disgrace. However, it will be in the interests of our offspring
to do what we want and even without the threat of haunting I'm confident
that they will.

Mary

On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 17:12:49 GMT, "Alan Holmes"
wrote:


I want dance music to be played at my funeral.

That should not be a problem.

The important thing is to make sure that your relatives know what you
want.

When it comes to death, it is surprising how little relatives often
know about the deceased. For example, did they want to be cremated?
Some people have a very strong preference in favour and some people
have a very strong preference to be stuck in a hole in the ground.

About ten years ago, there was an instance where a woman died. Her
relatives assumed - because they did not know- that she would have
opted for a burial. They could not trace a will.

Having carried out the burial, a friend of the deceased informed the
relatives that they were surprised that a burial had taken place. The
friend always thought that the deceased wanted to be cremated. The
friend had assumed that the deceased had told their relatives
otherwise.

Having realised that they had made a mistake, the relatives thought it
only best to put the situation right. An application was made to have
the body exhumed. The deceased was then cremated.

In the meantime, the deceased's house had been sold. Some time went by
after the cremation and the new owners of the property started to
redecorate. When they removed the front room carpets they discovered
an envelope containing the deceased's will. The will was made shortly
before the deceased had died.

The relatives could not trace any evidence of a will and therefore
assumed that the deceased had died intestate.

The deceased was very specific in their will - they wished to be
buried.

Graham



Graham

On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 17:12:49 GMT, "Alan Holmes"
wrote:


I want dance music to be played at my funeral.

How about Take That featuring Lulu - Relight My Fire

(:-)

Graham

On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 18:29:49 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


I'm not going to a crematorium. It's environmentally unfriendly.

The EU were proposing to bring in new legislation governing
crematoriums.

It is estimated that each crematorium releases upto 1kg of mercury
into the atmosphere each year. The mercury mainly comes from fillings.

It has been suggested that the cost of modifying crematoriums will add
£100 to the cost of a cremation.

Burial may not be environmentally friendly either. Decaying remains
may pollute local water courses.


Graham

wrote in message
...


Burial may not be environmentally friendly either. Decaying remains
may pollute local water courses.

You mean like all the worms and other invertebrates, birds and mammals which
die and become part of the Earth?

To say nothing of all the water creatures which die in the water courses?

Mary


Graham

"Andy Hall" wrote in message

Is that meant to be a j-oak?

your 'avin a larch...

'apple he'll stop soon.

Aye..... apple....

A champion comment.

You're Tell-ing me.

Mary




--

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Tony Bryer" wrote in message
...


I do think that there are more than a few firms in the funeral
business who do want to work in an ethical way.

I'm sure you're right, but how do you know which they are?

That is the big question.

....


In any case recommendation can only take you so far, in that unless
you are in the business or have arranged lots of funerals you are
unlikely to know how good the firm really is - you probably recognise
bad treatment, but not mediocrity: to get back on topic much as lay
people employing plumbers and electricians: they just don't have the
knowledge to know how good a job has been done - and why should they?

The difference is that a bad plumbing or electrical job could be dangerous
and you can always call the workmen back to make things good; a bad
undertaking job is over and done with in a day with nothing to show for it.
Except a bill. Nothing can be changed or made good.

As I've lived in the same place all my life and have been in the same
church since I was six I have been to ?50 funerals and have seen
those who do a better or worse job of directing: IMO there's a fine
balance between being too directive and failing to give that little
bit of guidance that would be appreciated. And fortunately in most
cases the funeral has been taken by someone who knew the deceased
well and so can talk meaningfully about them: for me this is the
biggest determinant of how 'good' a funeral is.

Yes, that would probably apply if you're talking about one church community.
I really don't think it's so of the general population.

Today my friend's husband died, she's relied on me for support and transport
in the last few weeks. I was called to the nursing home where he was minutes
after he died. Tonight she told me that his body was in the Co-op 'chapel of
rest' so that they'd probably do the funeral. She was too upset to make any
decision, the nursing home had sent his body there without offering her any
option, just asking if it was alright. What could she say in the minutes
after being widowed? I suspect that sort of thing happens frequently. I'm
not suggesting that there's any kind of 'arrangement' between the nursing
home and the Co-op but some might make that connection. Most people,
hereabouts at least, don't know any other funeral director but the Co-op.

television programme

That, with respect, is meaningless. What you see on television or
in the papers is what's been chosen to be featured.

The three that have been in the fly-on-the-wall documentaries have
obviously chosen to be so, and one would expect them to be firms who
reckon that the exposure will do them no harm. One of them, Gillmans,
www.funeral.org.uk (not quite sure about the ethics of that URL) has
been a Natural Death Centre's award winner. Perhaps they are rogues
but the open approach of their website with all the prices and an
expressed willingness to help anyone who wants to DIY with free
advice and menu pricing for particular services does strike a very
positive note with me.

Good. But what you're exposed to is edited by the film makers.

I've seen too much to take things for granted, to believe that there's only
one route and that that's the 'proper' one.

Some conventions are good for society but not necessarily for the
individual. I suspect that undertaking depends on people not knowing of any
other option. I know that when I asked my friend what she was thinking she
was numb, she said that she didn't know what to do, where to go from here.
She would let her sons arrange everything.

They have no experience either so they'll take the easy way out.

sigh

Planning ahead won't ensure that you'll have what you'd like but it's more
likely and it gives some guidance to your executors.

Mary

"Tony Bryer" wrote in message

The three that have been in the fly-on-the-wall documentaries have
obviously chosen to be so, and one would expect them to be firms who
reckon that the exposure will do them no harm. One of them, Gillmans,
www.funeral.org.uk (not quite sure about the ethics of that URL) has
been a Natural Death Centre's award winner. Perhaps they are rogues
but the open approach of their website with all the prices and an
expressed willingness to help anyone who wants to DIY with free
advice and menu pricing for particular services does strike a very
positive note with me.

I've just had a look that and wish I hadn't, I feel ill.

It's all such a sham. All that fake stuff and satin and .. ugh!

If you opt for the simplest you pay over £100 for a cardboard box! Over
£1,000 for a wickerwork coffin (plus VAT of course) and since we make
baskets I know what's involved.

It's sick.

Mary




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"Vera" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 18:29:49 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


What annoys me is that I can't dictate what will happen to my corpse, it
becomes the property of my next of kin and they can do what they like with
it. That's a disgrace.

How incredibly selfish.

Once you are dead you won't care.

No, but surely it's better to go through life and death confident that if,
say, you have a horror of being buried you're family won't do it?

Funerals are for the living -
whatever makes the living feel a little better is a Good Thing.

You think funerals make people feel better?

When I'm gone they can do whatever makes *them* happy. People who want
to dictate what happens to them after they are dead sound like
ultimate control freaks to me.

It's just the same as dictating what you want to happen to your possessions
(as in a will). Do you think that's incredibly selfish?

Mary

On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 17:12:45 GMT, "Alan Holmes"
wrote:

Have you got a plan/design?

Why was the Pope buried in something designed for the shoulders of a
quarterback, the no-neck of Mike Tyson and the feet of Pavlova ?


IMHE, 1/2" oak ready-veneered plywood and biscuit joints. The sides sit
on top of the base. Glueblocks in the inside corners. Solid oak trim
wrapped around top and bottom edge to hide the bare edges. Lid is the
same. Oil finish, then wax over it. Don't try to make glossy coffins -
buy good veneer instead and go with a semi-matt oil - it looks _far_
classier, especially when next to a grand's work of factory rubbish.

If you're not happy with the geometry or the measuring, just make a
rectangle.

Handles are cast brass pub door handles (rectangular base and rod
handle) from a salvage yard. Lid goes on over dowel screws (woodscrew
one end, machine screw the other) into the edges of the base and brass
acorn nuts on the top look presentable (Undertakers carry screwdrivers
from habit, but it seems not spanners)

Staple-gun upholstery over lightweight batting. Staple the top edge in
first, pleating it a little and stapling from inside the hem. Then flop
it over and drape it loosely to the middle. Either hide the bottoms by
stapling inside the pleats, or upholster a hardboard drop-in panel for
the base and catch the sides under it. Or if it's a closed coffin and
only the layer-out will see it, just don't bother lining it at all.

The trouble with DIY coffins is that you may literally have just 2 days
max to build and finish them. You have to be _quick_ and reliable.

As an aside, it is _very_ difficult to store a corpse (Oh, Google is
going to love this posting). You may well end up laying them out at home
(or in the residential home) and re-creating the full-on traditional
wake! Hospitals, mortuaries and especially funeral directors will not
want to help here.

It's difficult to load coffins in and out of estate cars. Use sawn-down
broomhandles as rollers. You also need tie-downs when driving to stop it
moving - even when empty (scratch the finish on delivery and you'll be
joining the deceased inside it).

It _is_ possible to recover bodies from abroad too, but the paperwork is
terrifying. I only know one person who's done this, and he was insane
(really - it did for him).

On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 22:16:56 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

To say nothing of all the water creatures which die in the water courses?

That's why dead fish float. It's their last selfless act to ensure
they're washed ashore as soon as possible.

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 17:12:45 GMT, "Alan Holmes"
wrote:

Have you got a plan/design?

Why was the Pope buried in something designed for the shoulders of a
quarterback, the no-neck of Mike Tyson and the feet of Pavlova ?

I don't know, why was the Pope buried in something designed for the
shoulders of a quarterback, the no-neck of Mike Tyson and the feet of
Pavlova ?

Oh - it wasn't a why did the chicken cross the road joke, sorry ... how do
you knowthe shape of his coffin(sorry, casket)? On the website I looked at
there were some with pictures INSIDE the lid. Yeuch.


IMHE, 1/2" oak ready-veneered plywood and biscuit joints. The sides sit
on top of the base. Glueblocks in the inside corners. Solid oak trim
wrapped around top and bottom edge to hide the bare edges. Lid is the
same. Oil finish, then wax over it. Don't try to make glossy coffins -
buy good veneer instead and go with a semi-matt oil - it looks _far_
classier, especially when next to a grand's work of factory rubbish.

I think you mean firewood.

As an aside, it is _very_ difficult to store a corpse (Oh, Google is
going to love this posting).

That was one of the deciding points when we bought our large chest freezer.

You may well end up laying them out at home
(or in the residential home) and re-creating the full-on traditional
wake! Hospitals, mortuaries and especially funeral directors will not
want to help here.

It seems to me that they don't want to help at all unless they can charge.

It's difficult to load coffins in and out of estate cars. Use sawn-down
broomhandles as rollers. You also need tie-downs when driving to stop it
moving - even when empty (scratch the finish on delivery and you'll be
joining the deceased inside it).

Oh come on Andy, who's going to notice? You don't need to finish it at all,
drape it with a flag or tablecloth or curtain or, in my case, my cape.

It _is_ possible to recover bodies from abroad too, but the paperwork is
terrifying. I only know one person who's done this, and he was insane
(really - it did for him).

Yes, it's awful. A friend's husband dropped dead on the Panama Canal (heart
attack). He was the navigator on a ship. It was a terrible time for her and
in the end she had to accept his ashes. They were put in a casket and tossed
over the blunt end of a tug in the Humber Estuary.

Mary

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 22:16:56 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

To say nothing of all the water creatures which die in the water courses?

That's why dead fish float. It's their last selfless act to ensure
they're washed ashore as soon as possible.

Oh how considerate :-)

And all the others?

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 10:35:59 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

I don't know, why was the Pope buried in something designed for the
shoulders of a quarterback, the no-neck of Mike Tyson and the feet of
Pavlova ?

http://gallery.di-ve.com/Pope's_funeral/

It just struck me as an odd shape.

(scratch the finish on delivery and you'll be
joining the deceased inside it).

Oh come on Andy, who's going to notice?

I've done a couple of "emergency finish repair" jobs on commercial
coffins where they've been damaged in transit.

In article , Mary
Fisher wrote:
Funerals are for the living -
whatever makes the living feel a little better is a Good Thing.

You think funerals make people feel better?

Good ones, yes. Good being IMHO a ceremony that does justice to the
person who has died, not barely acknowledging them as some standard
form of words is gone through and not painting them with words to be
someone who those attending don't recognise. I always remember that the
family who conducted my father's funeral recounting going round to see
him and finding him undoing knots in some string so it could be used
again: everyone laughed: that was the person they knew and had come to
remember. Of course it can be pretty hard to do this if you didn't know
the person and the family members are not forthcoming.

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"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...

I don't know, why was the Pope buried in something designed for the
shoulders of a quarterback, the no-neck of Mike Tyson and the feet of
Pavlova ?

http://gallery.di-ve.com/Pope's_funeral/

Good Heavens!

It just struck me as an odd shape.

And twelve bearers???

(scratch the finish on delivery and you'll be
joining the deceased inside it).

Oh come on Andy, who's going to notice?

I've done a couple of "emergency finish repair" jobs on commercial
coffins where they've been damaged in transit.

I believe you but still think it's daft.

What prettying up do people do on other firewood or compost?

Mary

"Tony Bryer" wrote in message
...
In article , Mary
Fisher wrote:
Funerals are for the living -
whatever makes the living feel a little better is a Good Thing.

You think funerals make people feel better?

Good ones, yes. Good being IMHO a ceremony that does justice to the
person who has died, not barely acknowledging them as some standard
form of words is gone through and not painting them with words to be
someone who those attending don't recognise.

Quite.

I always remember that the
family who conducted my father's funeral recounting going round to see
him and finding him undoing knots in some string so it could be used
again: everyone laughed: that was the person they knew and had come to
remember. Of course it can be pretty hard to do this if you didn't know
the person and the family members are not forthcoming.

But don't you think that the dead person would have wanted that sort of
thing too?

Mary

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Andy Dingley wrote:
Handles are cast brass pub door handles

There might be a certain aptness in that for some :-)

As an aside, it is _very_ difficult to store a corpse (Oh, Google is
going to love this posting).

As an alternative to all this coffin business

http://www.uaf.edu/museum/mammal/Pro...nual/bugs.html

then have a memorial service a couple of months later and everyone can
take a bone home as a souvenir.

Owain