Hi all; I'm approaching the stage where I need to paint the trailer
I'm building.

Can anybody give me advice or talk about their experiences working
with angle iron? The metal I'm using if filthy, coating my hands
black if I handle it too much. Is that coating some sort of
protective material or is the metal just dirty? What's the best way
to remove it? I'm guessing that a pressure washer isn't such a good
idea .

Having cleaned it, how do I paint it? What kind of paint do I use and
where do I get it?

Actually, anybody know of a paint shop on the SF peninsula that can do
a decent, cheap job?

--
-Ed Falk,
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/

Google Earl Schieb or Maaco. Either one may be able to do it all for you
inexpensively.

Or... Hit up a small local place that looks like it is hurting for
business.

If it matters, I wipe everything down with acetone before I prime and paint
with spray cans... But I think you want something a little more durable...

Much success.

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R


"Edward A. Falk" wrote in message
...
Hi all; I'm approaching the stage where I need to paint the trailer
I'm building.

Can anybody give me advice or talk about their experiences working
with angle iron? The metal I'm using if filthy, coating my hands
black if I handle it too much. Is that coating some sort of
protective material or is the metal just dirty? What's the best way
to remove it? I'm guessing that a pressure washer isn't such a good
idea .

Having cleaned it, how do I paint it? What kind of paint do I use and
where do I get it?

Actually, anybody know of a paint shop on the SF peninsula that can do
a decent, cheap job?

--
-Ed Falk,
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Cleaning the steel before cutting and assembly is ususally the way to go.
If it is really grimy, & you can dry it relatively easily, them you can
pressure wash it. Get rid of any standing water with compressed air or a
leaf blower afterwards. Buff with a wire wheel on an angle grinder (use
safety glasses and heavy gloves) to get ride of mill scale. Wipe down with
MEK or acetone and you're ready for paint. Industrial enamel primer and
top coat. Allow for complete drying between coats (24-48 hours).

John

Edward A. Falk wrote:

Hi all; I'm approaching the stage where I need to paint the trailer
I'm building.

Can anybody give me advice or talk about their experiences working
with angle iron? The metal I'm using if filthy, coating my hands
black if I handle it too much. Is that coating some sort of
protective material or is the metal just dirty? What's the best way
to remove it? I'm guessing that a pressure washer isn't such a good
idea .

Having cleaned it, how do I paint it? What kind of paint do I use and
where do I get it?

Actually, anybody know of a paint shop on the SF peninsula that can do
a decent, cheap job?


--
John L. Weatherly

please remove XXXs to reply via email

Ed,
Save yourself the grief and get it powdercoated. The process will involve
sandblasting to grade 00 and powder coating. If you consider the cost of the
solvents, the rags, the paper towels, the electricity and you forget your
labor, the cost is still less for powder. Look for commercial powder coaters
in the yellow pages. Bring the trailer to them in pieces and assemble after
the process. It is better faster and cheaper.
Steve

"Edward A. Falk" wrote in message
...
Hi all; I'm approaching the stage where I need to paint the trailer
I'm building.

Can anybody give me advice or talk about their experiences working
with angle iron? The metal I'm using if filthy, coating my hands
black if I handle it too much. Is that coating some sort of
protective material or is the metal just dirty? What's the best way
to remove it? I'm guessing that a pressure washer isn't such a good
idea .

Having cleaned it, how do I paint it? What kind of paint do I use and
where do I get it?

Actually, anybody know of a paint shop on the SF peninsula that can do
a decent, cheap job?

--
-Ed Falk,
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/

In article ,
Steve Lusardi wrote:
Ed,
Save yourself the grief and get it powdercoated. The process will involve
sandblasting to grade 00 and powder coating. If you consider the cost of the
solvents, the rags, the paper towels, the electricity and you forget your
labor, the cost is still less for powder. Look for commercial powder coaters
in the yellow pages. Bring the trailer to them in pieces and assemble after
the process. It is better faster and cheaper.
Steve

Awesome; I hadn't thought of painting it before welding. I assume I
have to grind the paint off the spots where I'll weld, and then add
touch-up paint after welding, correct?

--
-Ed Falk,
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/

Edward A. Falk wrote:

Hi all; I'm approaching the stage where I need to paint the trailer
I'm building.

Can anybody give me advice or talk about their experiences working
with angle iron? The metal I'm using if filthy, coating my hands
black if I handle it too much. Is that coating some sort of
protective material or is the metal just dirty? What's the best way
to remove it? I'm guessing that a pressure washer isn't such a good
idea .

Having cleaned it, how do I paint it? What kind of paint do I use and
where do I get it?

Actually, anybody know of a paint shop on the SF peninsula that can do
a decent, cheap job?


Get a gallon of kerosene and a stiff long-handled brush. Get busy - scrub
the thing good. Then wipe it down with rags dampened with clean solvent,
followed by blowing it dry. If there is loose rust and scale, use a knotted
cup wire brush on an angle grinder to knock it off. Then paint it with
quality oil-based enamel primer, let it dry, and topcoat as desired with
any good paint. I suggest black full gloss enamel. Gloss prevents rust
much better than semigloss, as the latter has tiny crevices in it - that's
how it looks less glossy. Where it's thinner, can be tiny holes that are
where rust starts. Keep a can of the paint for touchup. It's just a trailer.

Grant

Ed,
First, the material at the weld points have to be very clean before welding.
That's a given, but no, that is not what I said. A trailer is an assembly
made of multiple components. Finish the construction, fit all the
components, make sure everything works, then dissassemble and bring to the
powder coater for powder coating. Upon completion, do the final assembly.
This may sound like more work and expense, but it isn't.
Steve

"Edward A. Falk" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Steve Lusardi wrote:
Ed,
Save yourself the grief and get it powdercoated. The process will involve
sandblasting to grade 00 and powder coating. If you consider the cost of
the
solvents, the rags, the paper towels, the electricity and you forget your
labor, the cost is still less for powder. Look for commercial powder
coaters
in the yellow pages. Bring the trailer to them in pieces and assemble
after
the process. It is better faster and cheaper.
Steve

Awesome; I hadn't thought of painting it before welding. I assume I
have to grind the paint off the spots where I'll weld, and then add
touch-up paint after welding, correct?

--
-Ed Falk,
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/

On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 20:29:21 +0000 (UTC), with neither quill nor qualm,
(Edward A. Falk) quickly quoth:

In article ,
Steve Lusardi wrote:
Ed,
Save yourself the grief and get it powdercoated. The process will involve
sandblasting to grade 00 and powder coating. If you consider the cost of the
solvents, the rags, the paper towels, the electricity and you forget your
labor, the cost is still less for powder. Look for commercial powder coaters
in the yellow pages. Bring the trailer to them in pieces and assemble after
the process. It is better faster and cheaper.
Steve

Awesome; I hadn't thought of painting it before welding. I assume I
have to grind the paint off the spots where I'll weld, and then add
touch-up paint after welding, correct?

I'm sure he meant to just -prep- before welding. Welding near a
powdercoated finish will melt it off.

I just called a local powercoat shop and for a (SWAG) 5x8' trailer
with 3' tongue, they get $400-425. That includes sandblasting,
racking, powdercoating, and baking. That's not too bad, but OUCH, it
seems cheaper to _buy_ a trailer than to spend the money on parts,
welding time and supplies, and powdercoating.

Call a few sandblasting shops around your area. Maybe it's cheaper to
have them clean it and you prime and spray it yourself.

--
Such is the irresistible nature of truth that all it asks, and all it wants,
is the liberty of appearing. -- Thomas Paine

"Grant Erwin" wrote: (clip) I suggest black full gloss enamel. Gloss
prevents rust
much better than semigloss, as the latter has tiny crevices in it - that's
how it looks less glossy. Where it's thinner, can be tiny holes that are
where rust starts. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I have no objection to gloss enamel, except: because it's shiny, it shows
irregularities in the surface more. If you are a really good welder, this
may not matter. But, for example, you have to grind some welds and not
others, the difference will be emphasized. The way a semigloss finish is
built into the paint is by the proportion of solid pigment. When the paint
dries, the liquid part shrinks. If it shrinks enough to expose the tips of
the pigment particles, there will be less gloss. This is not tiny crevices,
but tiny bumps. There may be tiny pinholes in a coat of paint. When you
apply multiple coats, you reduce the chance that a pinhole will go all the
way from the surface to the metal. A coat of primer is probably going to
have some pinholes, which are practically certain to be covered by the
finish coat. The finish coat culd also have some pinholes, but there is
very little chance that a pinhole in one coat will line up with a pinhole in
the other coat.

(Edward A. Falk) wrote:

Can anybody give me advice or talk about their experiences working
with angle iron? The metal I'm using if filthy, coating my hands
black if I handle it too much. Is that coating some sort of
protective material or is the metal just dirty? What's the best way
to remove it? I'm guessing that a pressure washer isn't such a good
idea .

I make stuff at work out of hot rolled with that nice black coating of slag. I wipe with
a clean rag with alky on it and wire brush the welds. The painter shoots the shade of
blue we use for most parts (truck pulleys) and it looks fine.

For your trailer, I'd wire brush welds, clean the oils off with some sort of solvent,
brush paint with a rustoleum primer and overcoat with color. It isn't a car. Brush
painting is fine and all most all of your paint will end up on your trailer.

I am not a fan of powder coat. You can do a crapy job with it.

Wes

On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 00:54:53 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Leo
Lichtman" quickly quoth:


"Grant Erwin" wrote: (clip) I suggest black full gloss enamel. Gloss
prevents rust
much better than semigloss, as the latter has tiny crevices in it - that's
how it looks less glossy. Where it's thinner, can be tiny holes that are
where rust starts. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I have no objection to gloss enamel, except: because it's shiny, it shows
irregularities in the surface more. If you are a really good welder, this
may not matter. But, for example, you have to grind some welds and not
others, the difference will be emphasized. The way a semigloss finish is
built into the paint is by the proportion of solid pigment. When the paint
dries, the liquid part shrinks. If it shrinks enough to expose the tips of
the pigment particles, there will be less gloss. This is not tiny crevices,
but tiny bumps. There may be tiny pinholes in a coat of paint. When you
apply multiple coats, you reduce the chance that a pinhole will go all the
way from the surface to the metal. A coat of primer is probably going to
have some pinholes, which are practically certain to be covered by the
finish coat. The finish coat culd also have some pinholes, but there is
very little chance that a pinhole in one coat will line up with a pinhole in
the other coat.

Leo, it's a freakin' utility trailer, not a $45,000 classic car paint
job, fer chrissake. You don't want to hide the true nature of the
vehicle, do you?

Sheesh, and I thought _I_ was anal at times...

--
Such is the irresistible nature of truth that all it asks, and all it wants,
is the liberty of appearing. -- Thomas Paine

On Jul 4, 8:39*am, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 00:54:53 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Leo
Lichtman" quickly quoth:







"Grant Erwin" wrote: *(clip) I suggest black full gloss enamel. Gloss
prevents rust
much better than semigloss, as the latter has tiny crevices in it - that's
how it looks less glossy. Where it's thinner, can be tiny holes that are
where rust starts. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I have no objection to gloss enamel, except: *because it's shiny, it shows
irregularities in the surface more. *If you are a really good welder, this
may not matter. *But, for example, you have to grind some welds and not
others, the difference will be emphasized. *The way a semigloss finish is
built into the paint is by the proportion of solid pigment. *When the paint
dries, the liquid part shrinks. *If it shrinks enough to expose the tips of
the pigment particles, there will be less gloss. *This is not tiny crevices,
but tiny bumps. *There may be tiny pinholes in a coat of paint. *When you
apply multiple coats, you reduce the chance that a pinhole will go all the
way from the surface to the metal. *A coat of primer is probably going to
have some pinholes, *which are practically certain to be covered by the
finish coat. *The finish coat culd also have some pinholes, but there is
very little chance that a pinhole in one coat will line up with a pinhole in
the other coat.

Leo, it's a freakin' utility trailer, not a $45,000 classic car paint
job, fer chrissake. You don't want to hide the true nature of the
vehicle, do you?

Sheesh, and I thought _I_ was anal at times...

--
Such is the irresistible nature of truth that all it asks, and all it wants,
is the liberty of appearing. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -- Thomas Paine- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

A lot of people are like that (including myself), overkilling every
little detail on every little project to death!
As for the trailer, if it was mine, I would give it a good solvent
wash with enamel reducer or equivalent; prime with Rustoleum clean
metal primer followed by two coats of topcoat. Rustoleum holds up
well and it's priced right.

"Larry Jaques" wrote: Leo, it's a freakin' utility trailer, not a $45,000
classic car paint
job, fer chrissake. You don't want to hide the true nature of the
vehicle, do you?

Sheesh, and I thought _I_ was anal at times...
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Larry, I didn't think I was being anal. I was trying to show off my
knowledge by "clarifying" something that was in an earlier post.

BTW, since it's a freakin' utility trailer, I wouldn't choose gloss
enamel--it just wouldn't look right. My point was that there is no down
side to using semigloss or flat paint on a trailer.

On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 05:39:52 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 00:54:53 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Leo
Lichtman" quickly quoth:


"Grant Erwin" wrote: (clip) I suggest black full gloss enamel. Gloss
prevents rust
much better than semigloss, as the latter has tiny crevices in it - that's
how it looks less glossy. Where it's thinner, can be tiny holes that are
where rust starts. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I have no objection to gloss enamel, except: because it's shiny, it shows
irregularities in the surface more. If you are a really good welder, this
may not matter. But, for example, you have to grind some welds and not
others, the difference will be emphasized. The way a semigloss finish is
built into the paint is by the proportion of solid pigment. When the paint
dries, the liquid part shrinks. If it shrinks enough to expose the tips of
the pigment particles, there will be less gloss. This is not tiny crevices,
but tiny bumps. There may be tiny pinholes in a coat of paint. When you
apply multiple coats, you reduce the chance that a pinhole will go all the
way from the surface to the metal. A coat of primer is probably going to
have some pinholes, which are practically certain to be covered by the
finish coat. The finish coat culd also have some pinholes, but there is
very little chance that a pinhole in one coat will line up with a pinhole in
the other coat.

Leo, it's a freakin' utility trailer, not a $45,000 classic car paint
job, fer chrissake. You don't want to hide the true nature of the
vehicle, do you?

Sheesh, and I thought _I_ was anal at times...

You are..but Iggy beats you in that department...wavering over the
color to paint a vise......and there are others here far far
worse....G




"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism, but under the
name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program
until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it
happened." -- Norman Thomas, American socialist

On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 16:42:35 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Leo
Lichtman" quickly quoth:


"Larry Jaques" wrote: Leo, it's a freakin' utility trailer, not a $45,000
classic car paint
job, fer chrissake. You don't want to hide the true nature of the
vehicle, do you?

Sheesh, and I thought _I_ was anal at times...
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Larry, I didn't think I was being anal. I was trying to show off my
knowledge by "clarifying" something that was in an earlier post.

Well, it was a joke, but, since you're _clearly_ upset, you're
definitely anal about it. So solly. bseg


BTW, since it's a freakin' utility trailer, I wouldn't choose gloss
enamel--it just wouldn't look right. My point was that there is no down
side to using semigloss or flat paint on a trailer.

Ever looked at a trailer store? All the steel trailers are painted
either with gloss white or gloss black enamel, with an occasional
Mexichrome (aluminum paint) one tossed in for good measure. shrug

--
Jewish Zen:
Be here now. Be someplace else later. Is that so complicated, already?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.diversify.com - Uncomplicated Website Design, here and now.

Hi Ed,

Can anybody give me advice or talk about their experiences working
with angle iron?

I built an 8' x 5' trailer out of angle iron about 6 years back. I
didn't bother with the cleaning crap, just undercoated with a metal
primer then a finish gloss enamel. The thing has been used to haul
dirt, gravel, lawn tractors and myriads of other stuff.

I regularly loan it to friends and neighbors. It has been backed into
twice in parking lots where people have not seen it in their center
review mirror and the paint looks as good as it did when I brushed it
on. The only paint that looks crappy is the galvanized fenders as it
has dropped off in patches.

Is it a work trailer, or show trailer? Save your energy and time for
something more useful. It is a big enough pain brushing it twice
without adding to the drama.

Just my 2c.

Dave

The kerosene and rag method works great. A degreaser wash before hand
with a hose or pressure washer will get cleaner. A roller or brush
works fine. If you want maximum protection spray undercoat on the
bottom surfaces. Don't waste time getting off mill scale, it holds
paint fine in my experience. With a little maintenance, this method
will keep a trailer on the road for as long as you own it.

"Larry Jaques" wrote: Jewish Zen:
Be here now. Be someplace else later. Is that so complicated, already?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I'm now t5rying to prove that I do have a sense of humor. I think that is
funny.

In article ,
Steve Lusardi wrote:
Ed,
First, the material at the weld points have to be very clean before welding.
That's a given, but no, that is not what I said. A trailer is an assembly
made of multiple components. Finish the construction, fit all the
components, make sure everything works, then dissassemble and bring to the
powder coater for powder coating. Upon completion, do the final assembly.
This may sound like more work and expense, but it isn't.
Steve

OK, by "assemble", you mean just test-fit the parts, drill all the
holes, etc., correct? Then bring the individual pieces to be prepped
and painted, then bring them back home and weld them up, correct?

I did the test assembly in my back yard this afternoon, and it's all
piled into my car to be taken to the powder coater first thing
tommorrow.

--
-Ed Falk,
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/

Edward A. Falk wrote:
In article ,
Steve Lusardi wrote:

Ed,
First, the material at the weld points have to be very clean before welding.
That's a given, but no, that is not what I said. A trailer is an assembly
made of multiple components. Finish the construction, fit all the
components, make sure everything works, then dissassemble and bring to the
powder coater for powder coating. Upon completion, do the final assembly.
This may sound like more work and expense, but it isn't.
Steve


OK, by "assemble", you mean just test-fit the parts, drill all the
holes, etc., correct? Then bring the individual pieces to be prepped
and painted, then bring them back home and weld them up, correct?

I did the test assembly in my back yard this afternoon, and it's all
piled into my car to be taken to the powder coater first thing
tommorrow.

Ed!

Please don't weld powdercoated parts.

Powdercoating is flammable and the smoke will do a number on your
olfactory glands for *months*. AMHIKT

Best to have everything welded *before* powdercoating.

--Winston

In article Kbick.621$HY.547@trnddc01,
Winston wrote:

Ed!

Please don't weld powdercoated parts.

Powdercoating is flammable and the smoke will do a number on your
olfactory glands for *months*. AMHIKT

Best to have everything welded *before* powdercoating.

Got it. I'll talk to the powdercoating guy and explain what I'm doing.

New plan: Get it cleaned and prepped, then weld, then bring back to
be powdercoated.

--
-Ed Falk,
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/

Edward A. Falk wrote:
In article Kbick.621$HY.547@trnddc01,
Winston wrote:

Ed!

Please don't weld powdercoated parts.

Powdercoating is flammable and the smoke will do a number on your
olfactory glands for *months*. AMHIKT

Best to have everything welded *before* powdercoating.


Got it. I'll talk to the powdercoating guy and explain what I'm doing.

New plan: Get it cleaned and prepped, then weld, then bring back to
be powdercoated.


Dude. Get a clue. They don't put a whole f*****g trailer in a powdercoating
oven, and if they did, they'd charge you more than a new trailer costs. Get
a can of paint and a brush!

Grant

In article 0pnck.247$Z11.38@trndny05,
Grant Erwin wrote:
Edward A. Falk wrote:

Dude. Get a clue. They don't put a whole f*****g trailer in a powdercoating
oven, and if they did, they'd charge you more than a new trailer costs. Get

Yeah, I just found that out when I called the powdercoater people back.

I have to admit that I'm getting more and more confused. You can't
powdercoat the parts and then weld, and you can't weld it and then
get it powdercoated. If I'm not mistaken, this means that you can't
get it powdercoated at all. Why did someone even suggest it?

Get a can of paint and a brush!

That looks like my working plan now. My problem is the prep work;
I don't really have a place or the time to go and wipe down every
foot of angle with an acetone-soaked rag. I guess I'll call the
powdercoating guy back and ask what he'd charge to just prep the
steel and give it back to me.

--
-Ed Falk,
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/

Edward A. Falk wrote:
In article 0pnck.247$Z11.38@trndny05,
Grant Erwin wrote:

Edward A. Falk wrote:

Dude. Get a clue. They don't put a whole f*****g trailer in a powdercoating
oven, and if they did, they'd charge you more than a new trailer costs. Get


Yeah, I just found that out when I called the powdercoater people back.

I have to admit that I'm getting more and more confused. You can't
powdercoat the parts and then weld, and you can't weld it and then
get it powdercoated. If I'm not mistaken, this means that you can't
get it powdercoated at all. Why did someone even suggest it?


Get a can of paint and a brush!


That looks like my working plan now. My problem is the prep work;
I don't really have a place or the time to go and wipe down every
foot of angle with an acetone-soaked rag. I guess I'll call the
powdercoating guy back and ask what he'd charge to just prep the
steel and give it back to me.


What's the matter with your steel? Does it have oil on it? Is it just a little
bit of normal rust/scale? You don't have to kill yourself .. it would be really
easy to clean the stock before you weld everything up, then just blow it off
and paint it.

You are seriously pole-vaulting over mouse turds!

Grant

Grant Erwin wrote:

You are seriously pole-vaulting over mouse turds!

I gotta remember that one!

--
John L. Weatherly

please remove XXXs to reply via email

On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 16:15:25 +0000 (UTC), (Edward
A. Falk) wrote:

In article 0pnck.247$Z11.38@trndny05,
Grant Erwin wrote:
Edward A. Falk wrote:

Dude. Get a clue. They don't put a whole f*****g trailer in a powdercoating
oven, and if they did, they'd charge you more than a new trailer costs. Get

Yeah, I just found that out when I called the powdercoater people back.

I have to admit that I'm getting more and more confused. You can't
powdercoat the parts and then weld, and you can't weld it and then
get it powdercoated. If I'm not mistaken, this means that you can't
get it powdercoated at all. Why did someone even suggest it?

Get a can of paint and a brush!

That looks like my working plan now. My problem is the prep work;
I don't really have a place or the time to go and wipe down every
foot of angle with an acetone-soaked rag. I guess I'll call the
powdercoating guy back and ask what he'd charge to just prep the
steel and give it back to me.


Its a ****ing trailer. Unless its gonna be used to transport the Pope,
or featured at Harrahs or hung from the Cistine Chapel, who the hell
cares if it has a run or three? Use a pig bristle brush, slather it
with acetone, wait 20 minutes and use the same brush to paint it with
Rustolem.

Geeze.....


The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in times of great moral crisis maintain their neutrality",
John F. Kennedy.

In article 1Brck.177$0V1.45@trndny01,
Grant Erwin wrote:

What's the matter with your steel? Does it have oil on it? Is it just a little
bit of normal rust/scale? You don't have to kill yourself .. it would be really
easy to clean the stock before you weld everything up, then just blow it off
and paint it.

A little bit of oil on it, a little bit of surface rust, and a lot of
soot, so that my hands are black every time I handle it. I'm sure if
I painted over the soot, the paint would not stick to the steel.

I don't really have a place to work on it other than my driveway.
A rag soaked in kerosine would probably deal with the oil. If I also
cleaned off the soot, I'd have a pile of kerosene-soaked rags five feet
high and a lot of ****ed-off neighbors. I don't think kerosene would
deal with the rust at all. Maybe I'm wrong?

My biggest problem is that I just don't have a place where I can work
with volatile chemicals.

You are seriously pole-vaulting over mouse turds!




--
-Ed Falk,
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/

Edward A. Falk wrote:

In article 1Brck.177$0V1.45@trndny01,
Grant Erwin wrote:

What's the matter with your steel? Does it have oil on it? Is it just a little
bit of normal rust/scale? You don't have to kill yourself .. it would be really
easy to clean the stock before you weld everything up, then just blow it off
and paint it.


A little bit of oil on it, a little bit of surface rust, and a lot of
soot, so that my hands are black every time I handle it. I'm sure if
I painted over the soot, the paint would not stick to the steel.

I don't really have a place to work on it other than my driveway.
A rag soaked in kerosine would probably deal with the oil. If I also
cleaned off the soot, I'd have a pile of kerosene-soaked rags five feet
high and a lot of ****ed-off neighbors. I don't think kerosene would
deal with the rust at all. Maybe I'm wrong?

My biggest problem is that I just don't have a place where I can work
with volatile chemicals.

Your driveway is fine. Use kerosene and ONE rag. What I do is to put
some kero in a spray bottle and spray it on a big area, but it's OK if
you don't have a spray bottle or even if you don't have kerosene. You
can use a cheap brush and paint thinner. Get it wet, wash with the rag.
Soot and oil will come right off, enough anyway. If you have an air
compressor then blow it off, else just let it air dry for a bit and start
painting. It'll be fine. Trust me. I have painted about a hundred things
like this.

Grant

Grant Erwin wrote:
Edward A. Falk wrote:

In article 1Brck.177$0V1.45@trndny01,
Grant Erwin wrote:

What's the matter with your steel? Does it have oil on it? Is it just
a little
bit of normal rust/scale? You don't have to kill yourself .. it would
be really
easy to clean the stock before you weld everything up, then just blow
it off
and paint it.


A little bit of oil on it, a little bit of surface rust, and a lot of
soot, so that my hands are black every time I handle it. I'm sure if
I painted over the soot, the paint would not stick to the steel.

I don't really have a place to work on it other than my driveway.
A rag soaked in kerosine would probably deal with the oil. If I also
cleaned off the soot, I'd have a pile of kerosene-soaked rags five feet
high and a lot of ****ed-off neighbors. I don't think kerosene would
deal with the rust at all. Maybe I'm wrong?

My biggest problem is that I just don't have a place where I can work
with volatile chemicals.

Your driveway is fine. Use kerosene and ONE rag. What I do is to put
some kero in a spray bottle and spray it on a big area, but it's OK if
you don't have a spray bottle or even if you don't have kerosene. You
can use a cheap brush and paint thinner. Get it wet, wash with the rag.
Soot and oil will come right off, enough anyway. If you have an air
compressor then blow it off, else just let it air dry for a bit and start
painting. It'll be fine. Trust me. I have painted about a hundred things
like this.

Grant

Then either wash the rag (in your shop sink, or with your hose in the
driveway, not in anything your wife will ever see), or let it air dry,
or both.

That's probably an Environmental Sin, I suppose if I did it for more
than a hobby I'd find out what the 'right' way to do it is.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 (Edward A. Falk) wrote:
Grant Erwin wrote:

What's the matter with your steel? Does it have oil on it? Is it just a little
bit of normal rust/scale? You don't have to kill yourself .. it would be really
easy to clean the stock before you weld everything up, then just blow it off
and paint it.

A little bit of oil on it, a little bit of surface rust, and a lot of
soot, so that my hands are black every time I handle it. I'm sure if
I painted over the soot, the paint would not stick to the steel.

I don't really have a place to work on it other than my driveway.
A rag soaked in kerosine would probably deal with the oil. If I also
cleaned off the soot, I'd have a pile of kerosene-soaked rags five feet
high and a lot of ****ed-off neighbors. I don't think kerosene would
deal with the rust at all. Maybe I'm wrong?

My biggest problem is that I just don't have a place where I can work
with volatile chemicals.

So use deodorized paint thinner as the final wash before you spray
the primer coat - it costs a bit more than kerosene or regular
thinner, but the fumes are minimal and dissipate rapidly.

If you want to get rid of the smell totally use disposable all-
cotton rags, and toss the waste in the barbecue, or build yourself a
burn barrel with an expanded metal grate a few inches off the bottom.
When you are done, one match and the problems all magically go away.

There are more magical degreasers out there, but between the EPA and
the AQMD, you can't buy them anymore without a ream of paperwork.

You are seriously pole-vaulting over mouse turds!



Stepping over a dollar to pick up a penny.

-- Bruce --

"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote: So use deodorized paint thinner as the final wash
before you spray
the primer coat - it costs a bit more than kerosene or regular
thinner, but the fumes are minimal and dissipate rapidly. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
How about TSP? No odor. Rinses off with water. No solvents into the
atmosphere. The only objection I know of is it promotes algae growth in the
sewers.

On Tue, 08 Jul 2008 00:55:41 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"
wrote:


"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote: So use deodorized paint thinner as the final wash
before you spray
the primer coat - it costs a bit more than kerosene or regular
thinner, but the fumes are minimal and dissipate rapidly. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
How about TSP? No odor. Rinses off with water. No solvents into the
atmosphere. The only objection I know of is it promotes algae growth in the
sewers.

IIRC it'll wreck your skin if you get contact with it. And play
hell with the chemistry at the town sewer plant. That's why they
developed substitutes that (mostly) replace it.

Same thing with certain nasty solvents like Methyl Ethyl Ketone and
Carbon Tetrachloride.

-- Bruce --

On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 16:35:09 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Grant
Erwin quickly quoth:

Edward A. Falk wrote:

That looks like my working plan now. My problem is the prep work;
I don't really have a place or the time to go and wipe down every
foot of angle with an acetone-soaked rag. I guess I'll call the
powdercoating guy back and ask what he'd charge to just prep the
steel and give it back to me.

Don't have a place to wipe down a welded trailer?!? What's wrong with
the place the trailer is sitting right now, Ed?


What's the matter with your steel? Does it have oil on it? Is it just a little
bit of normal rust/scale? You don't have to kill yourself .. it would be really
easy to clean the stock before you weld everything up, then just blow it off
and paint it.

You are seriously pole-vaulting over mouse turds!

I disagree. Steel is usually covered in combinations of oil, rust,
scale, and crud. It needs to be wirebrushed and cleaned well before
any paint or primer goes on. But even a hand-held wire brush will do
the trick, and a garage (with -no- pilot lights), driveway, or gravel
lot is good enough for the wipedown.

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In article ,
Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 16:35:09 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Grant
Erwin quickly quoth:

Edward A. Falk wrote:

That looks like my working plan now. My problem is the prep work;
I don't really have a place or the time to go and wipe down every
foot of angle with an acetone-soaked rag. I guess I'll call the
powdercoating guy back and ask what he'd charge to just prep the
steel and give it back to me.

Don't have a place to wipe down a welded trailer?!? What's wrong with
the place the trailer is sitting right now, Ed?

It's a relatively crowded residential neighborhood. However, I've
talked to the neighbor who'll most likely be affected, and he's ok
with it.

--
-Ed Falk,
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/

On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 01:22:20 +0000 (UTC), with neither quill nor qualm,
(Edward A. Falk) quickly quoth:

In article ,
Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 16:35:09 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Grant
Erwin quickly quoth:

Edward A. Falk wrote:

That looks like my working plan now. My problem is the prep work;
I don't really have a place or the time to go and wipe down every
foot of angle with an acetone-soaked rag. I guess I'll call the
powdercoating guy back and ask what he'd charge to just prep the
steel and give it back to me.

Don't have a place to wipe down a welded trailer?!? What's wrong with
the place the trailer is sitting right now, Ed?

It's a relatively crowded residential neighborhood. However, I've
talked to the neighbor who'll most likely be affected, and he's ok
with it.

That's good.

If you use acetone ($12/gal locally) it'll be dry before your rag gets
3 feet from where it cleaned. The whole trailer shouldn't take more
than 15 minutes to wipe down, so your neighbors won't be chemically
abused for long.

----------------------------------
VIRTUE...is its own punishment
==================================

In article ,
Larry Jaques wrote:

If you use acetone ($12/gal locally) it'll be dry before your rag gets
3 feet from where it cleaned. The whole trailer shouldn't take more
than 15 minutes to wipe down, so your neighbors won't be chemically
abused for long.

Isn't acetone horribly toxic? My neighbor (he builds cars) suggested I
use lacquer thinner. Or do I have an unreasonable fear of the stuff?

--
-Ed Falk,
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/

"Edward A. Falk" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Larry Jaques wrote:

If you use acetone ($12/gal locally) it'll be dry before your rag gets
3 feet from where it cleaned. The whole trailer shouldn't take more
than 15 minutes to wipe down, so your neighbors won't be chemically
abused for long.

Isn't acetone horribly toxic? My neighbor (he builds cars) suggested I
use lacquer thinner. Or do I have an unreasonable fear of the stuff?

Lacquer thinner is much more toxic than acetone. Lacquer thinner comes in
several varieties -- the "hottest" is vicious stuff. The mildest is not.

How solvents will work under the paint depends on the type of paint you're
using. I see kerosene has been recommended. With some paints, kerosene will
just about guarentee paint failure. With others, it makes no difference.

Commerical acetone is mostly recycled from high-volume industrial uses. It
often has non-volatile components in it, although in extremely small
amounts. There are some paints for which it really isn't the best cleaning
solvent. In general, though, it will work fine for prepaint cleaning with
most paints you're likely to use.

--
Ed Huntress

On Jul 9, 12:00*pm, (Edward A. Falk) wrote:
In article ,
Larry Jaques wrote:



If you use acetone ($12/gal locally) it'll be dry before your rag gets
3 feet from where it cleaned. The whole trailer shouldn't take more
than 15 minutes to wipe down, so your neighbors won't be chemically
abused for long.

Isn't acetone horribly toxic? *My neighbor (he builds cars) suggested I
use lacquer thinner. *Or do I have an unreasonable fear of the stuff?

--
* * * * -Ed Falk,
* * * *http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/


I would just use straight enamel reducer or something like Dupont
Prepsol, RM Pre cleano or equivalent. Lacquer thinner dries too fast.

On 2008-07-09, Edward A. Falk wrote:
In article ,
Larry Jaques wrote:

If you use acetone ($12/gal locally) it'll be dry before your rag gets
3 feet from where it cleaned. The whole trailer shouldn't take more
than 15 minutes to wipe down, so your neighbors won't be chemically
abused for long.

Isn't acetone horribly toxic? My neighbor (he builds cars) suggested I
use lacquer thinner. Or do I have an unreasonable fear of the stuff?

If it were horribly toxic, I would have died years ago.

You do want to protect your hands (use nitrile gloves, not
latex). What it will do is remove the natural skin oils from your
hands, leaving them white and dry looking for a while.

The latex gloves might well dissolve in Acetone, and the nitrile
are better at resisting snags and tears. (Aside from that, may health
professionals are developing allergies to latex.)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:00:02 +0000 (UTC), with neither quill nor qualm,
(Edward A. Falk) quickly quoth:

In article ,
Larry Jaques wrote:

If you use acetone ($12/gal locally) it'll be dry before your rag gets
3 feet from where it cleaned. The whole trailer shouldn't take more
than 15 minutes to wipe down, so your neighbors won't be chemically
abused for long.

Isn't acetone horribly toxic? My neighbor (he builds cars) suggested I
use lacquer thinner. Or do I have an unreasonable fear of the stuff?

Hell, it's all toxic. I adore lacquer thinner and use it by the gallon
on my woodwork before finishing. It's just as good on metal. Use
either and stay upwind, wear a respirator with organic vapor filters,
or both. I keep one of these in my truck (with extra dust filters) and
one in the shop. http://tinyurl.com/6qgazm

Also, don't forget to wear thick nitrile or rubber gloves and goggles
during the wipe. Both eyes, both lungs, and all your fingers are a
blessing in later life.

LJ--happy with 2/2/10. (OK, 2/2/8/2 for you anal types out there.)

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