Hello all.
After reading the numerous posts as to the best chainsaw to have, I was
wondering.
This being a metalworking group, where many are machinists, welders etc.
who, for the most part, seem fairly self sufficient, why is it that
no-one seems to want to suggest that the OP sharpen his/her own chain(s)
manually?
If a person uses a saw for any amount of time at all it *will* need to
be sharpened.
I do not advocate the use of electric sharpening stones, I have used
them and found them IMHO to do more harm to a chain than good, as it is
near impossible to reliably do each tooth exactly the same.

Chain sharpening is the least labor intensive part of sawing IMO and can
save you lots of time,gas,and money.
A few pointers I might add:
Always tighten your chain, if needed, before sharpening and use the
proper sized round file.
Secure the saw by the bar in a vice if possible, so that the chain
turns freely and mark the chain so you can tell when you have filed all
the links.
File all the links on one side of the bar then turn the saw around and
do the other side.
Always use the same number of strokes on both sides of the chain, at the
proper angle and depth in each tooth, if you don't, your saw will
eventually try to cut a circle, as one side of the chain has more "meat"
than the other. IIRC the correct angle is around 35º for most chains.
Don't force the file, it will take off quite a bit of metal if it's a
good file, if it ain't get a new one.

Hope this short spurt helps someone out there.
granpaw
"Cutting wood warms three times..cutting it...splitting it...and burning
it."

I agree. I just use the correct size file and touch up the chain every
two or three times I have to fill it.
Dan

Yep. I always touch it up before doing any big logs (to save time) and
before doing anything fussy like pruning. I use a file on the bigger
saw, a stone mounted in the Dremel tool for the smaller saws. I check
the depth of cut teeth every other sharpening.

My newest saw has handy guide marks on each tooth to keep the angle from
going astray.

granpaw wrote:

Hello all.
After reading the numerous posts as to the best chainsaw to have, I was
wondering.
This being a metalworking group, where many are machinists, welders etc.
who, for the most part, seem fairly self sufficient, why is it that
no-one seems to want to suggest that the OP sharpen his/her own chain(s)
manually?
If a person uses a saw for any amount of time at all it *will* need to
be sharpened.
I do not advocate the use of electric sharpening stones, I have used
them and found them IMHO to do more harm to a chain than good, as it is
near impossible to reliably do each tooth exactly the same.

Chain sharpening is the least labor intensive part of sawing IMO and can
save you lots of time,gas,and money.
A few pointers I might add:
Always tighten your chain, if needed, before sharpening and use the
proper sized round file.
Secure the saw by the bar in a vice if possible, so that the chain
turns freely and mark the chain so you can tell when you have filed all
the links.
File all the links on one side of the bar then turn the saw around and
do the other side.
Always use the same number of strokes on both sides of the chain, at the
proper angle and depth in each tooth, if you don't, your saw will
eventually try to cut a circle, as one side of the chain has more "meat"
than the other. IIRC the correct angle is around 35º for most chains.
Don't force the file, it will take off quite a bit of metal if it's a
good file, if it ain't get a new one.

Hope this short spurt helps someone out there.
granpaw
"Cutting wood warms three times..cutting it...splitting it...and burning
it."

I only costs 5-6 bucks per chain at the local mower shop here. Why
bother doing it yourself?
JR
Dweller in the cellar
granpaw wrote:
Hello all.
After reading the numerous posts as to the best chainsaw to have, I was
wondering.
This being a metalworking group, where many are machinists, welders etc.
who, for the most part, seem fairly self sufficient, why is it that
no-one seems to want to suggest that the OP sharpen his/her own chain(s)
manually?
If a person uses a saw for any amount of time at all it *will* need to
be sharpened.
I do not advocate the use of electric sharpening stones, I have used
them and found them IMHO to do more harm to a chain than good, as it is
near impossible to reliably do each tooth exactly the same.

Chain sharpening is the least labor intensive part of sawing IMO and can
save you lots of time,gas,and money.
A few pointers I might add:
Always tighten your chain, if needed, before sharpening and use the
proper sized round file.
Secure the saw by the bar in a vice if possible, so that the chain
turns freely and mark the chain so you can tell when you have filed all
the links.
File all the links on one side of the bar then turn the saw around and
do the other side.
Always use the same number of strokes on both sides of the chain, at the
proper angle and depth in each tooth, if you don't, your saw will
eventually try to cut a circle, as one side of the chain has more "meat"
than the other. IIRC the correct angle is around 35º for most chains.
Don't force the file, it will take off quite a bit of metal if it's a
good file, if it ain't get a new one.

Hope this short spurt helps someone out there.
granpaw
"Cutting wood warms three times..cutting it...splitting it...and burning
it."









--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth
If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes
Doubt yourself, and the real world will eat you alive
The world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around me
No skeletons in the closet; just decomposing corpses
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dependence is Vulnerability:
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Open the Pod Bay Doors please, Hal"
"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.."

JR North wrote:

I only costs 5-6 bucks per chain at the local mower shop here. Why
bother doing it yourself?
JR
Dweller in the cellar
snip
*If* you have a local shop, *and* you're not in the boonies when you
need it/them sharpened, *and* you can afford to take it in every time
you hit dirt, a rock, a nail, etc. then that might possibly be a viable
option.
OTOH:
Using that rationale, why bother with doing/learning if you can have
someone else do it for you.

In the woods, I'd rather file the chain than swap to a sharp one
because the saw is likely to leak bar oil badly if a chip gets caught
under the bar near the oil hole. There is a paintbrush in the toolbox
to clean around the gas and oil caps before refilling but it doesn't
work well if soaked with sticky bar oil. I am NOT about to clean a hot
saw with gasoline while standing in dry leaves next to my tractor.
Besides, touching up the chain gives the saw time to cool a little
before refueling.

At home I'll swap chains after blowing out the sprocket area with
compressed air.

jw

I run with a bunch of woodturners, who use chainsaws a LOT. We have found
the electric chainsaw sharpener sold at Harbor Freight for around $60 on
sale, (Nick the Grinder) is a wonderful tool. Common practice is to carry
one or more spare chains when you go to the boonies, and do the sharpening
at home.

"granpaw" wrote in message
...


JR North wrote:

I only costs 5-6 bucks per chain at the local mower shop here. Why bother
doing it yourself?
JR
Dweller in the cellar
snip
*If* you have a local shop, *and* you're not in the boonies when you need
it/them sharpened, *and* you can afford to take it in every time you hit
dirt, a rock, a nail, etc. then that might possibly be a viable option.
OTOH:
Using that rationale, why bother with doing/learning if you can have
someone else do it for you.


Shucks. Why own a chainsaw at all? Just hire someone to cut the wood, too.
Heck, you might break a nail. ;-)

Steve

Point well taken. I actually learn/do everything I can, and
implement/integrate that knowledge. Saw chains just don't happen to drop
neatly into that.
JR
Dweller in the cellar

granpaw wrote:


Using that rationale, why bother with doing/learning if you can have
someone else do it for you.




--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth
If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes
Doubt yourself, and the real world will eat you alive
The world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around me
No skeletons in the closet; just decomposing corpses
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dependence is Vulnerability:
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Open the Pod Bay Doors please, Hal"
"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.."

"SteveB" wrote: (clip) Just hire someone to cut the wood, too. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ha Ha. I once suggested to my boss that he could pay someone else to play
solitaire for him, but he didn't see the humor in it. Maybe that's why I
don't work there any more.

I think it is easier to touch up the chain than to remove and replace
the chain.
The first time or two you may screw up, but after a little while it is
pretty quick and easy. Two or three strokes with the file per cutter.
I do have another chain. I just have never used it.

If you want to see the tree I cut down and the progress I have made
toward splitting it, go to http://photos.yahoo.com/dlcaster57
click on the thumbnail photo to see the rest of the pictures. I have
just been splitting a couple of rounds per day.


Dan

wrote:
I think it is easier to touch up the chain than to remove and replace
the chain.
The first time or two you may screw up, but after a little while it is
pretty quick and easy. Two or three strokes with the file per cutter.
I do have another chain. I just have never used it.

If you want to see the tree I cut down and the progress I have made
toward splitting it, go to http://photos.yahoo.com/dlcaster57
click on the thumbnail photo to see the rest of the pictures. I have
just been splitting a couple of rounds per day.


Dan

Dan, is that a pine? sure looks like it splits easy!

JR North wrote:
Point well taken. I actually learn/do everything I can, and
implement/integrate that knowledge. Saw chains just don't happen to drop
neatly into that.

I'm just an amateur, but have cut and split (hydraulic) maybe 30 cords
over the years, and learned a bit about how the saw and chains behave
in that time.

So it is around $20 for a new chain, $6 for machine sharpening at a
shop, and $0 to hand-sharpen with a file.

If you use the grinder every time, you might get only a few machine
sharpenings before the teeth are used up. Of course it depends on the
situation. Did you hit a rock, or just wear down the edges evenly.
Either way, if you cut a lot of wood, you'll come out ahead by learning
to sharpen with a file.

I tried a file jig, and tried sharpening on the saw, and didn't like
either way. I do take the chain off, and lay it in a bench vise with
jaws open just wide enough to hold the drive teeth rigidly. Filing by
hand, the chains I use (Stihl and Oregon) have angle marks, that are
good enough to get the angle right.

Sometimes there is a hard edge on teeth and it takes an extra oophm or
a first cut at a different angle to get through the hard surface, after
which the teeth cut more easily. So it is a good thing to be able to
move the file at any angle, not constrained by a guide. Took a few
tries but now it feels natural.

Now, when a chain looks half used up, I'll take it in for a machine
sharpening to get everything even again, and then use it up the rest of
the way by hand.

I also learned it's worth to be really careful about what you're
cutting through, and cutting on, planning cuts to avoid dirt and rocks
wherever they may be.

Fir. And it does split easily except for the bits with a limb. I
usually have to use a wedge or two to split a round in two. Then I can
often split a wedge off with a single blow of a splitting maul.
Unfortunately a wedge is too big to get thru the wood stove door and a
limb makes it near impossible to split the tip off the wedge. I weigh
less than 160 lbs so a 8 lb wedge is about as much as I can use
effectively.

Dan
granpaw wrote:


Dan, is that a pine? sure looks like it splits easy!

HOLY CRAP!

Does everyone realize that we are talking on topic almost nearly as much as
the blogs and ranters are talking about off topic items?

Does a heart good.

Information and knowledge vs. politics, misinformation, rumor, and bias.
Which one to choose.

Wait, wait. I know the answer to this....................

Steve

I've seen those sharpeners and am curious.
How do you use them?
Do you have to mount the chain for each cutting bit then
move something, or ...?
How automatic or manual is it?

Thanks,
Wayne D.

On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 16:50:21 GMT, Leo Lichtman
wrote:

I run with a bunch of woodturners, who use chainsaws a LOT. We have
found
the electric chainsaw sharpener sold at Harbor Freight for around $60 on
sale, (Nick the Grinder) is a wonderful tool. Common practice is to
carry
one or more spare chains when you go to the boonies, and do the
sharpening
at home.

....Unfortunately a wedge is too big to get thru the wood stove door and
a
limb makes it near impossible to split the tip off the wedge....
--
Dan

I cut up those messy hard-to-split chunks with the chain saw. It cuts
pretty well with the bar parallel to the trunk, like cutting a slab off
the side or slicing a big log in half lengthwise. I saw big wet heavy
sections in half sometimes rather than getting hurt lifting them into
the trailer.

The long chips jam in the sprocket area unless the bar is angled
slightly up or down relative to the log, or the saw body is a few
inches clear of the end of the log for the first pass down.

jw

I plan on doing something like that, but not right now.

Dan

On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 14:14:25 -0700, "SteveB" wrote:

HOLY CRAP!

Does everyone realize that we are talking on topic almost nearly as much as
the blogs and ranters are talking about off topic items?

Does a heart good.

Information and knowledge vs. politics, misinformation, rumor, and bias.
Which one to choose.

Wait, wait. I know the answer to this....................

Steve


Taking it little further. Has anybody had the joy of splitting Dutch Elm?. I
swear that the grain is braided and bonded to itself with some kind of resin.
Some varieties (Ontario) are incredibly tough to split even when notched with
chainsaw.

Taking it back to metal content, is there a good method for toughening up a
splitting wedge when it starts to mushroom? Few months ago a steel chip
broke of with such a ferocity the it sliced through my pants and imbedded
itself in the side of my knee. I sustained some minor nerve damage and would
not want to repeat the experience. I have a TIG/STICK welder.

As far a sharpening goes I am back to file. I tried various rotary bits but
as they wear, the diameter of bit changes and you do not get the proper cut.








Regards,

Boris Mohar

Got Knock? - see:
Viatrack Printed Circuit Designs (among other things) http://www.viatrack.ca

void _-void-_ in the obvious place

As good as a chain filer as you can be, its still impossible to get
all the teeth on the loop the same size as some will ber filed more
than others due to damages etc..........So about all I do is use a
file to keep them touched up, and file that chain probably no more
than 3 times if it really needs a good sharpening, and not just a
touch up.......After that it gets thrown in the pile and eventually
carried to the saw shop where they use a machine grinder and once set
it will make all the teeth uniform again (uniform that is in that it
will grind away wifer or longer teeth and make them all the same as
the smallest one since thats what the grinder is set on.

I buy Woodsman brand chain by the rolls from Baileys, and its pretty
cheap. Woodsman chain is actually Carlton Brand chain, which is of
very good quality........I try to sytay away for the chain with all
the anti kickback features on it as I want to cut wood, and have
experieince, and what a difference between backyard saw chain and pro
or commercial chain......The chrome edged or plated chain sucks big
time and will wear a file out quicker, and is more of a pain to
sharpen or touch up than good high quality carbon steel chain
is.......Same with files, Pferd makes the best longest lasting files
for chain sharpening..........Husky brand files are actually Pferd
files.......Its important to hold the right angle, so the rake is
proper, and the tooth does not get whats called a beak or hook on it
from too much undercut, and its also important to keep the rakers
filed to the correct limits below the top of the chains teeth. The
amount is different for a lot of saws, but its genberally .025 to
..030" on most saws....Too much and the chain grabs and stalls more
than it cuts, too little and your making to fine of chips and working
harder than you should be to cut the same amount of wood with a
properly adjusted raker on the chain.

There certainoy is nothing wrong with sharpening a chain by hand, but
do it wrong and the saw will not perform properly, and its possible to
ruin a bar and chain with improper sharpening.......Get ahold of whats
called a File-O-Plate made by carlton until you get used to what angle
the cutters need to be filed to and also the rakers adjusted to. Much
easier than a Oregon file guide......


On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:21:47 -0500, granpaw
wrote:

===Hello all.
===After reading the numerous posts as to the best chainsaw to have, I was
===wondering.
===This being a metalworking group, where many are machinists, welders etc.
===who, for the most part, seem fairly self sufficient, why is it that
===no-one seems to want to suggest that the OP sharpen his/her own chain(s)
===manually?
===If a person uses a saw for any amount of time at all it *will* need to
===be sharpened.
===I do not advocate the use of electric sharpening stones, I have used
===them and found them IMHO to do more harm to a chain than good, as it is
===near impossible to reliably do each tooth exactly the same.
===
===Chain sharpening is the least labor intensive part of sawing IMO and can
===save you lots of time,gas,and money.
===A few pointers I might add:
===Always tighten your chain, if needed, before sharpening and use the
===proper sized round file.
===Secure the saw by the bar in a vice if possible, so that the chain
===turns freely and mark the chain so you can tell when you have filed all
===the links.
===File all the links on one side of the bar then turn the saw around and
===do the other side.
===Always use the same number of strokes on both sides of the chain, at the
=== proper angle and depth in each tooth, if you don't, your saw will
===eventually try to cut a circle, as one side of the chain has more "meat"
===than the other. IIRC the correct angle is around 35º for most chains.
===Don't force the file, it will take off quite a bit of metal if it's a
===good file, if it ain't get a new one.
===
===Hope this short spurt helps someone out there.
===granpaw
==="Cutting wood warms three times..cutting it...splitting it...and burning
===it."
===
===
===
===
===
===


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

Dunno what kind of saw or bar you run but I have swapped many a chain
in the field and there is no reason in the world it hsould leak bar
oil if its doone properly. If a chip is in the oil port remove it.
Chains and bars are swapped every day in the logging and pulpwood
industry.......It doe snot pay to set down and sharpen a chain or do
much other than a quick touch up of a couple of nicked teeth if your
usuing your saw to earn money. Its cheaper and faster to have a
couple of spare loops on hand to swap out when needed......Of ocurse
most here is not out earing a extra buck and need to eliminate down
time with sharpening, but having a spare chain is a good idea.....



On 28 Sep 2005 09:41:46 -0700, wrote:

===In the woods, I'd rather file the chain than swap to a sharp one
===because the saw is likely to leak bar oil badly if a chip gets caught
===under the bar near the oil hole. There is a paintbrush in the toolbox
===to clean around the gas and oil caps before refilling but it doesn't
===work well if soaked with sticky bar oil. I am NOT about to clean a hot
===saw with gasoline while standing in dry leaves next to my tractor.
===Besides, touching up the chain gives the saw time to cool a little
===before refueling.
===
===At home I'll swap chains after blowing out the sprocket area with
===compressed air.
===
===jw


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

Exactly, save the filing for on the bench where its comfortable and
your not being rushed to finish up a job......

..On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 16:50:21 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"
wrote:

===I run with a bunch of woodturners, who use chainsaws a LOT. We have found
===the electric chainsaw sharpener sold at Harbor Freight for around $60 on
===sale, (Nick the Grinder) is a wonderful tool. Common practice is to carry
===one or more spare chains when you go to the boonies, and do the sharpening
===at home.
===


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

Boris
The top of the wedge should be dressed the same as you dress your cold
chisels, you do dress your chisels don't you? Anyway grind the mushroomed
metal from the edges of the top and then bevel the top at ~30 to 45 degrees
all around the top to side intersection. The flat on the bevel for a wedge
should be about 1/4" wide. This will prevent splintering and knocking chunks
off the wedge.
lg
no neat sig line

"Boris Mohar" wrote in message
...
Taking it back to metal content, is there a good method for toughening up
a
splitting wedge when it starts to mushroom? Few months ago a steel chip
broke of with such a ferocity the it sliced through my pants and imbedded
itself in the side of my knee. I sustained some minor nerve damage and
would
not want to repeat the experience. I have a TIG/STICK welder.

As far a sharpening goes I am back to file. I tried various rotary bits
but
as they wear, the diameter of bit changes and you do not get the proper
cut.








Regards,

Boris Mohar

Got Knock? - see:
Viatrack Printed Circuit Designs (among other things)
http://www.viatrack.ca

void _-void-_ in the obvious place

Toolbert wrote:

JR North wrote:
Point well taken. I actually learn/do everything I can, and
implement/integrate that knowledge. Saw chains just don't happen to drop
neatly into that.

I'm just an amateur, but have cut and split (hydraulic) maybe 30 cords
over the years, and learned a bit about how the saw and chains behave
in that time.

So it is around $20 for a new chain, $6 for machine sharpening at a
shop, and $0 to hand-sharpen with a file.

Your time to sharpen the chain is worth more than $0. If you don't do it
frequently, you'll be a lot slower at it as well. Sharpening the
occasional chain myself would likely take up $20 worth of my time and
not produce as good a result as the $6 sharpening from my local shop.

For the average person who does not use the saw on at least a weekly
basis it's unlikely to be practical to sharpen the chains themselves.

Pete C.



If you use the grinder every time, you might get only a few machine
sharpenings before the teeth are used up. Of course it depends on the
situation. Did you hit a rock, or just wear down the edges evenly.
Either way, if you cut a lot of wood, you'll come out ahead by learning
to sharpen with a file.

I tried a file jig, and tried sharpening on the saw, and didn't like
either way. I do take the chain off, and lay it in a bench vise with
jaws open just wide enough to hold the drive teeth rigidly. Filing by
hand, the chains I use (Stihl and Oregon) have angle marks, that are
good enough to get the angle right.

Sometimes there is a hard edge on teeth and it takes an extra oophm or
a first cut at a different angle to get through the hard surface, after
which the teeth cut more easily. So it is a good thing to be able to
move the file at any angle, not constrained by a guide. Took a few
tries but now it feels natural.

Now, when a chain looks half used up, I'll take it in for a machine
sharpening to get everything even again, and then use it up the rest of
the way by hand.

I also learned it's worth to be really careful about what you're
cutting through, and cutting on, planning cuts to avoid dirt and rocks
wherever they may be.

You are right, sharpening a chain does take some time. But not a lot
of time to touch it up. And it takes time to remove and replace the
chain too plus driving to where ever one gets chains sharpened plus
money for gas. For me the time to sharpen a chain is less than the time
I would spend at the counter of the saw shop when picking up the
sharpened chain. And it is kind of like grinding a lathe tool bit. I
don't think one has to do it a lot to remember how.

I will say I probably cut the life of the first chain I sharpened in
half, so it cost me $10 to learn based on a $20 new chain ( and that
does not count the time ).


Dan

"~Roy" wrote in message
...
As good as a chain filer as you can be, its still impossible to get
all the teeth on the loop the same size as some will ber filed more
than others due to damages etc..........So about all I do is use a
file to keep them touched up, and file that chain probably no more
than 3 times if it really needs a good sharpening, and not just a
touch up.......After that it gets thrown in the pile and eventually
carried to the saw shop where they use a machine grinder and once set
it will make all the teeth uniform again (uniform that is in that it
will grind away wifer or longer teeth and make them all the same as
the smallest one since thats what the grinder is set on.

I buy Woodsman brand chain by the rolls from Baileys, and its pretty
cheap. Woodsman chain is actually Carlton Brand chain, which is of
very good quality........I try to sytay away for the chain with all
the anti kickback features on it as I want to cut wood, and have
experieince, and what a difference between backyard saw chain and pro
or commercial chain......The chrome edged or plated chain sucks big
time and will wear a file out quicker, and is more of a pain to
sharpen or touch up than good high quality carbon steel chain
is.......Same with files, Pferd makes the best longest lasting files
for chain sharpening..........Husky brand files are actually Pferd
files.......Its important to hold the right angle, so the rake is
proper, and the tooth does not get whats called a beak or hook on it
from too much undercut, and its also important to keep the rakers
filed to the correct limits below the top of the chains teeth. The
amount is different for a lot of saws, but its genberally .025 to
.030" on most saws....Too much and the chain grabs and stalls more
than it cuts, too little and your making to fine of chips and working
harder than you should be to cut the same amount of wood with a
properly adjusted raker on the chain.

There certainoy is nothing wrong with sharpening a chain by hand, but
do it wrong and the saw will not perform properly, and its possible to
ruin a bar and chain with improper sharpening.......Get ahold of whats
called a File-O-Plate made by carlton until you get used to what angle
the cutters need to be filed to and also the rakers adjusted to. Much
easier than a Oregon file guide......


On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:21:47 -0500, granpaw
wrote:

Sounds like the chains I run. Very aggressive and dangerous to run IF
you don't know what your doing. I do all my own sharpening. I have three
different methods. On a new chain that has low hours I'll use a hand
file with a guide and touch up the teeth. For field use I also have a
hand sharpener that can be set to cut the raker depth and set to cut the
teeth back equally as well. It is an old Granberg file-n-joint unit that
clamps to the bar and has a guide rail system with a lock that stops the
teeth. http://www.right-tool.com/filenjoint.html Then I also have an
old Belsaw wheel sharpener that I use to fix damaged chains.



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

granpaw wrote:
Hello all.
After reading the numerous posts as to the best chainsaw to have, I was
wondering.
This being a metalworking group, where many are machinists, welders etc.
who, for the most part, seem fairly self sufficient, why is it that
no-one seems to want to suggest that the OP sharpen his/her own chain(s)
manually?
If a person uses a saw for any amount of time at all it *will* need to
be sharpened.
I do not advocate the use of electric sharpening stones, I have used
them and found them IMHO to do more harm to a chain than good, as it is
near impossible to reliably do each tooth exactly the same.

Chain sharpening is the least labor intensive part of sawing IMO and can
save you lots of time,gas,and money.
A few pointers I might add:
Always tighten your chain, if needed, before sharpening and use the
proper sized round file.
Secure the saw by the bar in a vice if possible, so that the chain
turns freely and mark the chain so you can tell when you have filed all
the links.
File all the links on one side of the bar then turn the saw around and
do the other side.
Always use the same number of strokes on both sides of the chain, at the
proper angle and depth in each tooth, if you don't, your saw will
eventually try to cut a circle, as one side of the chain has more "meat"
than the other. IIRC the correct angle is around 35º for most chains.
Don't force the file, it will take off quite a bit of metal if it's a
good file, if it ain't get a new one.

Hope this short spurt helps someone out there.
granpaw
"Cutting wood warms three times..cutting it...splitting it...and burning
it."


I hand sharpen all my chains on the saw . I also own a commercial chain
grinder . About the only time it ever gets used is when a competition
guy asks me to do some chains for him . Lots of misconceptions to what
is the right angle . For competition saws we ran lots of tests . Simply
put the difference between the angles was not significant . It is not
really the angle that determines how fast a saw cuts . Brand new chains
are not as close tolerance as people might think . Every tooth might be
the exact same size but they end up at slightly different heights once
assembled . One high tooth makes the bar jump a small amount and the
next few teeth get a free ride so to speak . Rakers or depth gages
determine how much each tooth can cut . To high means your saw is not
working at maximum efficiency , too low and it increases kickbacks .
Lots of west coast fallers take them off completely but their saws have
more then enough horsepower to get away with this . On smaller saws it
will bog them down . With the added risk of eating a spinning chain it
is not a risk worth taking . For the average person it is enough to get
the teeth as close to the same angle and same length when hand filing .
Keeping too pronounced a hook from developing . As the tooth gets filed
back it gets shorter . One size smaller file should then be used to
prevent sloping the tooth back . The real key is the tips of the teeth
should be needle sharp when done . If you look at the end of a tip and
see a tiny shiny spot give it another stroke . That shiny spot is a flat
on the tip . Some people file one side then turn the saw to file the
other . This is fine , in fact it's the way I do it . Some people have
the knack of filing one side right handed and the opposite side left
handed . I can't but works well for lots of people . Just try get both
sides roughly the same length . No need to get it all at one sharpening
.. If it is off by much just add a few extra strokes to the long side
each time you file until you get it close again . Very often a saw that
is cutting crooked it blamed on the chain . Yep some times it is but
very often it is the bar . Bars should be serviced every 25 hours .
Taken off the saw and a flat file run along the long edges to remove
groove the chain naturally produces . Then the file laid flat on the bar
and the burr removed. watch out these can be razor sharp . The groove
should then be cleaned out , going from tip to base so as not to push
the sludge into the roller tip . The oil holes cleaned out . Then the
bar reinstalled upside down , unless it is some kind of specialty bar
they sell for anti whatever is popular this week . Bars should be rolled
regularly to get maximum lifespan out of them . When I was younger I did
dangerous snag falling and falling on wild fires . Then I carried an
extra bar and chain . Now I only carry falling wedges . I am not sure
how many people get pinched in trees but pretty much never happens to me
so I avoid packing the added weight .
Ken Cutt

In article ,
"Pete C." wrote:

Your time to sharpen the chain is worth more than $0. If you don't do it
frequently, you'll be a lot slower at it as well. Sharpening the
occasional chain myself would likely take up $20 worth of my time and
not produce as good a result as the $6 sharpening from my local shop.

The last time I took a chain in for 'professional' sharpening, they
ground half the teeth off and left it completely dull, far worse than
when I brought it in. I threw that chain away and bought another, and
have been sharpening my chains ever since with a diamond electric
sharpener and am happy with it.

--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

I'll grab all those knurly pieces especially on an oak the butress
roots, and crotch sections that most folks let lay as they are hard to
split. They brun great and last a lot onger than straight split pieces
do........Harder to stack and also to place in stove, but the results
IMHO are worth the hassles...
On 28 Sep 2005 15:03:44 -0700, wrote:

===...Unfortunately a wedge is too big to get thru the wood stove door and
===a
===limb makes it near impossible to split the tip off the wedge....
=== --
===Dan
===
===I cut up those messy hard-to-split chunks with the chain saw. It cuts
===pretty well with the bar parallel to the trunk, like cutting a slab off
===the side or slicing a big log in half lengthwise. I saw big wet heavy
===sections in half sometimes rather than getting hurt lifting them into
===the trailer.
===
===The long chips jam in the sprocket area unless the bar is angled
===slightly up or down relative to the log, or the saw body is a few
===inches clear of the end of the log for the first pass down.
===
===jw


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

~Roy wrote:
I'll grab all those knurly pieces especially on an oak the butress
roots, and crotch sections that most folks let lay as they are hard to
split. They brun great and last a lot onger than straight split pieces
do........Harder to stack and also to place in stove, but the results
IMHO are worth the hassles...


Unless I find them first!

michael

In article ,
granpaw wrote:

I do not advocate the use of electric sharpening stones, I have used
them and found them IMHO to do more harm to a chain than good, as it is
near impossible to reliably do each tooth exactly the same.

Clearly, opinions differ. Grinding setups may differ - sounds like you
have used something with no jig or stop mechanism. With a proper chain
grinding setup, it's quite trivial (in my experience) to do all the
teeth essentially the same, and that is why I have that done after
several cycles of filing, or hitting something that makes filing a major
chore. My chains develop a "handedness" drift over time (it's difficult
to file each tooth the same when half of them point the other direction
- the left and right hands do not file the same, nor does the right hand
when asked to go backwards - same strokes and trying to use the same
pressure notwithstanding). A jigged grind job clears this right up,
which means it's more consistent than I can manage with a file.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

In article ,
Wayne wrote:

I've seen those sharpeners and am curious.
How do you use them?

It's a Chinese knockoff of the Oregon (which is either made in Italy, or
made in China and stamped made in Italy...).

You set the chain in the vise, looking for the worst/shortest tooth,
setting vise to angle for that side. You move the setting jig up until
that tooth gets fully ground, clamping with each grind cycle. Then you
leave the setting jig in place and unclamp, move, clamp, grind, repeat.
All manual, gets faster the more you do it. Swing the angle for the
other side, do the other side. Swap grinding wheels, swing angle to 0,
file one raker with the usual raker guide, use that raker to set the
grinder wheel used for rakers, grind all the other rakers.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

Ecnerwal wrote:
snip

My chains develop a "handedness" drift over time (it's difficult
to file each tooth the same when half of them point the other direction
- the left and right hands do not file the same, nor does the right hand
when asked to go backwards - same strokes and trying to use the same
pressure notwithstanding). A jigged grind job clears this right up,
which means it's more consistent than I can manage with a file.

In my case I file from the side of the bar with the handle of the saw
towards me, my chain(s) has 15 cutters on a side so when I have done 15
teeth on one side I change sides and do the other 15 teeth...the same
number of strokes.
Having done that, I still at times need to take a lot off due to hitting
a rock etc. and it is better to hold it by the bar in a vice, I even
have a removable vice I mount on the truck for times like that.
But when I'm with the skidder say 40 acres back in the woods it is nice
to have an extra loop along too.
On a related subject:
I'm getting old and a little worn out from traipsin through the brush
so I don't wear chaps, head gear, and definately no ear protection. I
need to hear the cracking sound things make when they fall unexpected or
someone trying to get my attention, and chaps for me just make it harder
to get around, and unsafe.
But that's just me....;0)
granpaw

so I don't wear chaps, head gear, and definately no ear protection. I
need to hear the cracking sound things make when they fall unexpected or

I am surprised that you have any hearing left. I can't stand to be
around a chain saw at all without hearing protection. I did it as
a kid but not now.

On 29 Sep 2005 20:32:28 GMT, Chuck Sherwood wrote:
so I don't wear chaps, head gear, and definately no ear protection. I
need to hear the cracking sound things make when they fall unexpected or

I am surprised that you have any hearing left. I can't stand to be
around a chain saw at all without hearing protection. I did it as
a kid but not now.

I have a Stihl helmet with the built in face screen and earmuffs. I
find myself much more comfortable cutting, and less distracted, when the
chips aren't flying in my face. Far as I'm concerned, it's as much a
safety feature for keeping stuff out of my eyes, as it is a safety
feature for keeping me from flinching or being distracted by a chunk of
whatever hitting my face.

Daev Hinz

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...
On 29 Sep 2005 20:32:28 GMT, Chuck Sherwood
wrote:
so I don't wear chaps, head gear, and definately no ear protection. I
need to hear the cracking sound things make when they fall unexpected or

I am surprised that you have any hearing left. I can't stand to be
around a chain saw at all without hearing protection. I did it as
a kid but not now.

I have a Stihl helmet with the built in face screen and earmuffs. I
find myself much more comfortable cutting, and less distracted, when the
chips aren't flying in my face. Far as I'm concerned, it's as much a
safety feature for keeping stuff out of my eyes, as it is a safety
feature for keeping me from flinching or being distracted by a chunk of
whatever hitting my face.

Daev Hinz


Absolutely. I do a lot of grinding in my welding work. If I have a face
protector on, I don't squint. I don't flinch. I can concentrate more on
the exact point I am working on.

As an aside, I have gone to the doctor two times to have metal slivers
removed from my eyes. Both times, I had safety glasses on, but no face
shield. Then, another time, I was walking in to work, and a blast of wind
on the back dock sent something into my eye that had to be removed by the
doctor.

Protect your eyes and ears, kids. I wear hearing aids now because of
exposure to industrial noise and rock and roll bands. They are great, but
it would be nice to hear things just as they are supposed to sound. It
happens gradually, and it happens to everyone.

My chainsaw is rated at 112db. Ear protection is
"suggested" over 85db.

Steve

Steve

granpaw wrote:
Ecnerwal wrote:
snip

My chains develop a "handedness" drift over time (it's difficult
to file each tooth the same when half of them point the other
direction - the left and right hands do not file the same, nor does
the right hand when asked to go backwards - same strokes and trying
to use the same pressure notwithstanding). A jigged grind job clears
this right up, which means it's more consistent than I can manage
with a file.
In my case I file from the side of the bar with the handle of the saw
towards me, my chain(s) has 15 cutters on a side so when I have done
15 teeth on one side I change sides and do the other 15 teeth...the
same number of strokes.
Having done that, I still at times need to take a lot off due to
hitting a rock etc. and it is better to hold it by the bar in a vice,
I even have a removable vice I mount on the truck for times like that.
But when I'm with the skidder say 40 acres back in the woods it is
nice to have an extra loop along too.

Unless you have a need for an ultra perfect chain (competition bucking?)
there is no need to file everything down to meet the 'worst tooth'.
Pick an average and determine how many strokes of the file it takes to get
that one sharp. Give all the others the same number of strokes. Go cut wood.

Ken.

On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 14:53:27 -0700, Ken Davey wrote:

Unless you have a need for an ultra perfect chain (competition bucking?)
there is no need to file everything down to meet the 'worst tooth'.
Pick an average and determine how many strokes of the file it takes to get
that one sharp. Give all the others the same number of strokes. Go cut wood.

Where's the "cut in a semicircle because you didn't keep the angle
consistant between the left and right teeth" step?

The grinders that are used in sharpening shops are fine, but those
held in a dremel tool suck big time, as when the diameter of that
small round stone wears the cutters do not get ground
properly.........not the case with theones that are used for
commercial sharpening though as the wheel is sort of cocked on an
angle and a wheel of a specified width is used, it just gets smaller
in diameter not width, like the little round stones do.


On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 15:30:21 GMT, Ecnerwal
wrote:

===In article ,
=== granpaw wrote:
===
=== I do not advocate the use of electric sharpening stones, I have used
=== them and found them IMHO to do more harm to a chain than good, as it is
=== near impossible to reliably do each tooth exactly the same.
===
===Clearly, opinions differ. Grinding setups may differ - sounds like you
===have used something with no jig or stop mechanism. With a proper chain
===grinding setup, it's quite trivial (in my experience) to do all the
===teeth essentially the same, and that is why I have that done after
===several cycles of filing, or hitting something that makes filing a major
===chore. My chains develop a "handedness" drift over time (it's difficult
===to file each tooth the same when half of them point the other direction
===- the left and right hands do not file the same, nor does the right hand
===when asked to go backwards - same strokes and trying to use the same
===pressure notwithstanding). A jigged grind job clears this right up,
===which means it's more consistent than I can manage with a file.


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

Huh, whats that you say...........I used to be like that, but now even
though I have a 60% hearing loss I wear a hard hat, with mesh face
protectin flip up shield, and hearing protectors. Its all one unit and
is quite confortable. Thje only time I do not use them is if I am
felling a tree, but will wear it up until the point I make the finala
cut, then the muffs get moved out of the way, but face shield and cap
is still worn..I do not use chaps unless I am in brush cutting. Out in
the open I go chapless........and they are a real pain to wear if up
in a tree....



On 29 Sep 2005 20:32:28 GMT, (Chuck
Sherwood) wrote:

===so I don't wear chaps, head gear, and definately no ear protection. I
===need to hear the cracking sound things make when they fall unexpected or
===
===I am surprised that you have any hearing left. I can't stand to be
===around a chain saw at all without hearing protection. I did it as
===a kid but not now.


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o