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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#81
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"SteveB" wrote in message news:YUFXe.81146$DW1.68795@fed1read06... "Gunner Asch" wrote Actually..Steve is wrong. A primer DOES have the ability to detonate c4 , RDX and others. We salted caches all over southeast Asia with such doctored rounds. I actually saw the results of such a round being fired. Not pretty, not pretty at all. Gunner I stand corrected. From what I recall of basic explosives training during diving school, and actual field explosive work, I would not have thought that a primer could reach the detonation velocity of C4. Steve Steve, I was right there with ya. I thought I remembered in school as well something about needing a hotter / longer source to ignite. I got some lying around we could test with. Just need a volunteer to pull the trigger. JUST KIDDING. Chris |
#82
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Jon Elson wrote:
(snip) Not true. A full-size adult was killed by his pet boa constrictor (yes, the snake was HUGE) about 15 years ago, here in the St. Louis area. Certainly rare, but it can happen. The guy was trying to cut the snake with a pocket knife when he must have run out of air. Jon Sorry, I don't belive it was a boa. They max out at about 10'-12' long and maybe 50 pounds. While it is theoretically possible, it is on the same order as a poodle killing a grown man. A burmese python on the other hand has been known to occasionally kill people and are large enough to actually have a good chance of taking out a grown man. They also can get to be 18' long and 150-200 pounds. Todd (who owns 2 boas, and has in the past owned a burmese python) |
#83
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"jk" wrote in message ... "SteveB" wrote: I have the belief that the car should be arrested. If ANYONE flees from a PO in a car, they just get the license number. They don't have to go through the dangerous chase scenario. They do not have to identify the driver, as the car committed the crime. Then, when the car is stopped again, or the plate is run, it goes to car jail, and it costs the owner a hefty sum to get it back. Or, DMV sends them a notice of cancellation of registration. It may be simplistic, but wouldn't it work? Not in the slightest. THe guy steals a car, runs from the PO in it, abandons it after he escapes. THe owner gets the car back and then faces a big fine TOO.. Are you NUTS???????? jk Oh, gee. Thanks for correcting me, and doing so tactfully. I guess we should just keep up with the current system of doing things. Innocent bystanders killed and maimed. BTW, does anyone have the site where you can go live and watch the car chases in LA? I heard they had an automated system that whenever there is a car chase, they will beep you so you can get to a monitor and watch. Well, that last group of Christians didn't fight worth a darn. Lets get some more in here, and this time, send for some REALLY hungry lions. Steve |
#84
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"Chris" wrote in message ... "SteveB" wrote in message news:YUFXe.81146$DW1.68795@fed1read06... "Gunner Asch" wrote Actually..Steve is wrong. A primer DOES have the ability to detonate c4 , RDX and others. We salted caches all over southeast Asia with such doctored rounds. I actually saw the results of such a round being fired. Not pretty, not pretty at all. Gunner I stand corrected. From what I recall of basic explosives training during diving school, and actual field explosive work, I would not have thought that a primer could reach the detonation velocity of C4. Steve Steve, I was right there with ya. I thought I remembered in school as well something about needing a hotter / longer source to ignite. I got some lying around we could test with. Just need a volunteer to pull the trigger. JUST KIDDING. Chris Hey! It was YOUR idea.......... |
#85
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"Todd Rich" wrote in message ... Jon Elson wrote: (snip) Not true. A full-size adult was killed by his pet boa constrictor (yes, the snake was HUGE) about 15 years ago, here in the St. Louis area. Certainly rare, but it can happen. The guy was trying to cut the snake with a pocket knife when he must have run out of air. Jon Sorry, I don't belive it was a boa. They max out at about 10'-12' long and maybe 50 pounds. While it is theoretically possible, it is on the same order as a poodle killing a grown man. A burmese python on the other hand has been known to occasionally kill people and are large enough to actually have a good chance of taking out a grown man. They also can get to be 18' long and 150-200 pounds. Todd (who owns 2 boas, and has in the past owned a burmese python) I must have been dreaming a few years back when I saw that news footage of the fireman hack sawing that snake in half that was killing its human victim. The newscaster said it was a boa. I don't think the snake, the fireman, or the guy with the protruding eyeballs cared one whit. You know how those newsmen lie about facts and details. I DO remember, though, it WAS a snake. Steve |
#86
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Lloyd E. Sponenburgh writes:
A reputable estate attorney here in Florida set it up. It truly is no shield against liability for me or my income stream, and any property owned by the trust might be forfeit if I couldn't make the payments (like our home). But the property owned outright by my son (his trust) is not subject to attachment if I were found liable. OK, so what's yours is at risk, and what isn't isn't. Living trusts have nothing to do with it. They have their virtues, but limiting liability isn't one of them. |
#87
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On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:14:06 GMT, Gunner Asch wrote:
he criteria, in virtually all jurisdictions, is : "You must have reasonable cause to belive, that your life, or the life of another is in immediate danger, before you can employ deadly force" Reasonable, meaning it will pass the Reasonable Man test, which is basicly what the jury will decide was reasonable. In other words, keep a spare, unregistered gun or big knife at hand. Make sure your fingerprints aren't on it, but the bad guys ones are... Geoff |
#88
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On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 14:16:43 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote: "Gunner Asch" wrote Actually..Steve is wrong. A primer DOES have the ability to detonate c4 , RDX and others. We salted caches all over southeast Asia with such doctored rounds. I actually saw the results of such a round being fired. Not pretty, not pretty at all. Gunner I stand corrected. From what I recall of basic explosives training during diving school, and actual field explosive work, I would not have thought that a primer could reach the detonation velocity of C4. Steve The only true Explosive in a cartridge is the primer/priming compound. When in intimate contact with the flash hole, sufficent energy is transfered to do the deed. Shrug...its on the low end, but yah..it will toss a AK bolt backwards fast enough embed it in the tree behind the shooters ...well..what remains of the shooters skull. Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
#89
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On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:24:30 -0400, "Chris" wrote:
"SteveB" wrote in message news:YUFXe.81146$DW1.68795@fed1read06... "Gunner Asch" wrote Actually..Steve is wrong. A primer DOES have the ability to detonate c4 , RDX and others. We salted caches all over southeast Asia with such doctored rounds. I actually saw the results of such a round being fired. Not pretty, not pretty at all. Gunner I stand corrected. From what I recall of basic explosives training during diving school, and actual field explosive work, I would not have thought that a primer could reach the detonation velocity of C4. Steve Steve, I was right there with ya. I thought I remembered in school as well something about needing a hotter / longer source to ignite. I got some lying around we could test with. Just need a volunteer to pull the trigger. JUST KIDDING. Chris Id be happy to make up a "mousetrap" , and send it to you for "destructive testing". Shotgun primer or rifle? Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
#90
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On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:08:10 +1200, Geoff M wrote:
On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:14:06 GMT, Gunner Asch wrote: Reasonable, meaning it will pass the Reasonable Man test, which is basicly what the jury will decide was reasonable. In other words, keep a spare, unregistered gun or big knife at hand. Make sure your fingerprints aren't on it, but the bad guys ones are... I don't think that's what Gunner was saying at all. If someone breaks into my house and threatens me and/or my family, I will stop them. Trying to cover it up would make it look like I was somehow in the wrong and needed to hide something. Let's keep the blame for the hypothetical incident on the person who caused it, not play games with "drop guns" or whatever. If the perp is a threat, you stop that threat, period. No games, no "wipe the prints off" or whatever, just stop the threat. This isn't Hollywood. Dave Hinz |
#91
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I got to get one of these theft deterent systems for my car :-)
http://www.trunkmonkey.com/content/view/44/51/ SteveB wrote: "jk" wrote in message ... "SteveB" wrote: I have the belief that the car should be arrested. If ANYONE flees from a PO in a car, they just get the license number. They don't have to go through the dangerous chase scenario. They do not have to identify the driver, as the car committed the crime. Then, when the car is stopped again, or the plate is run, it goes to car jail, and it costs the owner a hefty sum to get it back. Or, DMV sends them a notice of cancellation of registration. It may be simplistic, but wouldn't it work? Not in the slightest. THe guy steals a car, runs from the PO in it, abandons it after he escapes. THe owner gets the car back and then faces a big fine TOO.. Are you NUTS???????? jk Oh, gee. Thanks for correcting me, and doing so tactfully. I guess we should just keep up with the current system of doing things. Innocent bystanders killed and maimed. BTW, does anyone have the site where you can go live and watch the car chases in LA? I heard they had an automated system that whenever there is a car chase, they will beep you so you can get to a monitor and watch. Well, that last group of Christians didn't fight worth a darn. Lets get some more in here, and this time, send for some REALLY hungry lions. Steve |
#92
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"Gunner Asch" wrote in message ... On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:24:30 -0400, "Chris" wrote: "SteveB" wrote in message news:YUFXe.81146$DW1.68795@fed1read06... "Gunner Asch" wrote Actually..Steve is wrong. A primer DOES have the ability to detonate c4 , RDX and others. We salted caches all over southeast Asia with such doctored rounds. I actually saw the results of such a round being fired. Not pretty, not pretty at all. Gunner I stand corrected. From what I recall of basic explosives training during diving school, and actual field explosive work, I would not have thought that a primer could reach the detonation velocity of C4. Steve Steve, I was right there with ya. I thought I remembered in school as well something about needing a hotter / longer source to ignite. I got some lying around we could test with. Just need a volunteer to pull the trigger. JUST KIDDING. Chris Id be happy to make up a "mousetrap" , and send it to you for "destructive testing". Shotgun primer or rifle? Gunner NA, I will pass on that one. Although I could leave it "lying" around. Chris |
#93
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#94
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On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 18:45:02 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner
Asch quickly quoth: On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 05:56:44 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote: That's probably not the best attitude to have, Steve. You might want to rethink that since you really don't ever want to -need- to use the pistola on anyone. But we have them now for the day all Hell breaks loose. Indeed. Remove all thoughts of Rambo from your skull. And keep in mind that that CCW is there as a last resort. Period. End program. Full stop. Right. Walk softly, keep your mouth shut, be respectful, and never lose sight of the fact someone can simply walk up behind you and crush your skull with a brick. Ayup. Above all else, Situational Awareness Rules! ================================================== =================== -=Everything in Moderation,=- NoteSHADES(tm) glare guards -=including moderation.=- http://www.diversify.com ================================================== =================== |
#95
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On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 10:47:13 +0100, Mark Rand
wrote: On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 21:15:46 -0700, "SteveB" wrote: "Rudy" wrote in message news:ceqXe.514904$s54.352232@pd7tw2no... When I am done, I am going to put in some booby traps Speaking of booby traps.. I read this in a book recently.. I loved it: Take a cheap Saturday nite special, take one round for it and pull out the bullet from the shell and dump out the powder. Replace it with C4 and push the bullet back in and reload..just the one round When the dirtbag that steals it tries it out...BOOM ! You get to track him by the blood trail from the 'stump' Two problems, Rudy. Where are you going to get the C4? A primer does not have the ability to detonate C4. I think you need to get your money back on that book. Steve Presumably very sweaty dynamite would work ok and be easier to acquire, Gunner? Mark Rand RTFM Just under 300 sticks went missing recently according to this mornings paper. It had been stored in a purpose built, locked, storage facility. Gerry :-)} London, Canada |
#96
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"Larry Jaques" wrote Ayup. Above all else, Situational Awareness Rules! I am either psychic or intuitive. I can sit at the mall, and watch people. I can tell you about people's families. I can tell you which husband and wife are fighting. I can tell you which father is porking which daughter. I can tell you as much about people and families after fifteen minutes of observation as a psychiatrist can after six sessions. I can sit in parking lot situations, and have a thorough grasp on every character there. Sometimes this is a blessing and a curse. But, yes, you have to be aware. If you watch the Nature programs about the wildebeest and the lions, it is always the dopey wildebeest that are away from the crowd, pronking along ............ lah dee dee, lah dee dah .............. doh tee doh ............ that end up as dinner. Same with humans. I see people do some incredibly stupid things, and want to go over and tell them, but they would probably pepper spray me, shoot me, or call the cops. I was a safety professional in another life. Same scenario. In those cases, we usually got to talk to the people AFTER the incident. Now, it is just easier to turn my head, walk away, and not have the stress. I AM situationally aware to the sixth degree. Steve |
#97
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"Gerald Miller" wrote in message ... On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 10:47:13 +0100, Mark Rand wrote: On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 21:15:46 -0700, "SteveB" wrote: "Rudy" wrote in message news:ceqXe.514904$s54.352232@pd7tw2no... When I am done, I am going to put in some booby traps Speaking of booby traps.. I read this in a book recently.. I loved it: Take a cheap Saturday nite special, take one round for it and pull out the bullet from the shell and dump out the powder. Replace it with C4 and push the bullet back in and reload..just the one round When the dirtbag that steals it tries it out...BOOM ! You get to track him by the blood trail from the 'stump' Two problems, Rudy. Where are you going to get the C4? A primer does not have the ability to detonate C4. I think you need to get your money back on that book. Steve Presumably very sweaty dynamite would work ok and be easier to acquire, Gunner? Mark Rand RTFM Just under 300 sticks went missing recently according to this mornings paper. It had been stored in a purpose built, locked, storage facility. Gerry :-)} London, Canada There was a program where the cops set up shop in cities that had military bases to buy no no's. One of the most common items brought in for sale was C4. An incredible amount. Don't get me wrong. C4 and PETN is a lot of fun, and can save a lot of work. It just draws a lot of attention. Steve PS: It's also very good fish bait............................. |
#98
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On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 18:01:21 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote: Just under 300 sticks went missing recently according to this mornings paper. It had been stored in a purpose built, locked, storage facility. Gerry :-)} London, Canada There was a program where the cops set up shop in cities that had military bases to buy no no's. One of the most common items brought in for sale was C4. An incredible amount. Don't get me wrong. C4 and PETN is a lot of fun, and can save a lot of work. It just draws a lot of attention. Steve PS: It's also very good fish bait............................. Our log cabin up north got a "no trespassing" sign posted on each side one winter when weather shut down a road building job early, and storage space was needed for about five tons of 60% dynamite. Outside of our immediate family, only the "Powder Man" knew where it was until time to pick it up the next spring. Of course things were a lot simpler fifty years ago. Gerry :-)} London, Canada |
#99
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"Walk softly, keep your mouth shut, be respectful, and never lose sight
of the fact someone can simply walk up behind you and crush your skull with a brick. " .....And sue you down to your shorts to the point that you and your family is penniless if you use it incorrectly. Carrying a gun is one thing, using it means accepting the responsibility of what can come after. TMT |
#100
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"I hope no emergency workers (firemen, cops, etc.) need to get into
your place while you're not around. It could spell a very long jail term for you if they set off the traps. " You got that right...like if you had lived in New Orleans and the authorities were now checking your home for victums. Or in a moment of inattention, your grandchild wanders into one of the traps. I have a very dim view of "traps" and I have seen the results of a jury where someone tried to explain his way out of having set one. In the case of this jury, the award was in the millions to the victum. And the person who set the traps is still in prision. TMT |
#101
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On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 18:40:05 GMT, Gunner Asch
wrote: Actually..Steve is wrong. A primer DOES have the ability to detonate c4 , RDX and others. We salted caches all over southeast Asia with such doctored rounds. I actually saw the results of such a round being fired. Not pretty, not pretty at all. Gunner Blasting caps and cartridge primers are similar in nature though caps have considerably more "stuff". A blasting cap will send a steel pot (military helmet) 100 feet up, and when it lands it will have many little holes in it. Smokeless powder propellant is a monomolecular compound like HE, just has much lower detonation velocity. It still must be initated like HE, unlike oxy-fuel mixes like black powder and some IED's which need only be ignited. Cartridge primers can be smaller than blasting caps because they operate in a confined space -- a cartridge confined by a chamber. A small initiating charge produces high pressure, shock and temperature in such a situation. A cartridge primer embedded in unconfined HE, C4 or whatever, may or may not work. I'd suspect not, but I'd neither bet against it or on it. |
#102
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"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message oups.com... "I hope no emergency workers (firemen, cops, etc.) need to get into your place while you're not around. It could spell a very long jail term for you if they set off the traps. " You got that right...like if you had lived in New Orleans and the authorities were now checking your home for victums. Or in a moment of inattention, your grandchild wanders into one of the traps. I have a very dim view of "traps" and I have seen the results of a jury where someone tried to explain his way out of having set one. In the case of this jury, the award was in the millions to the victum. And the person who set the traps is still in prision. TMT Get a grip, dude. It's not like I'm deliberately trying to kill someone. Some monofilament hooked to some 1.5" thin galvanized tubes stood on end will make a hell of a racket at night. Simple noisemaking "traps" are effective, safe, and simple. FYI, I have two sets of gates my grandchildren would have to go through to get in my shop area. They are automatic and self closing. We keep an eye on our kids, and don't let them just wander around. We also have a pool and two jaccuzzis, and are without incident because we WATCH OUR KIDS. Not something everyone does. I have a dimmer view of "thieves" than you do of "traps." I have seen where they have come out better in court than the victims they have sucked blood out of. One broke into my house, and before they could trace him back to his house (he left his car), he shaved and cut his hair off and didn't match the description of a man with long scraggly black hair and a beard. A little payback ain't such a bad deal. Unless, you are a bleeding heart liberal, and in that case, why don't you just post your address? Invite them over for a support group. Serve vienna sausages and Cheeze-Whiz. I could give a Flying Wallenda if they break a leg. Or injure their self-esteem. Steve |
#103
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On 19 Sep 2005 22:21:39 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:
On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:08:10 +1200, Geoff M wrote: On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:14:06 GMT, Gunner Asch wrote: Reasonable, meaning it will pass the Reasonable Man test, which is basicly what the jury will decide was reasonable. In other words, keep a spare, unregistered gun or big knife at hand. Make sure your fingerprints aren't on it, but the bad guys ones are... I don't think that's what Gunner was saying at all. If someone breaks into my house and threatens me and/or my family, I will stop them. Trying to cover it up would make it look like I was somehow in the wrong and needed to hide something. Let's keep the blame for the hypothetical incident on the person who caused it, not play games with "drop guns" or whatever. If the perp is a threat, you stop that threat, period. No games, no "wipe the prints off" or whatever, just stop the threat. This isn't Hollywood. Dave Hinz Very true indeed. Forensics are quite good these days, and making any fast attempt to cover anything up is gonna come down on you like a ton of ****. As is "dragging him into the house" As long as you follow the reasonable man guide..in MOST states you will be ok. Some states require you to retreat. Some require you to annouce you are armed, etc. Some allow you to shoot a trespasser unannounced in the back, if its dark out. Shrug I presented the "Must have reasonable fear" bit as its a very good rule of thumb Under a number of actual circumstances, you are quite legally able to shoot a perp in the back, unannounced. A case in point is one Im quite familiar with. A friend was shopping at K-mart just before closing time. He paid for his goods, and headed for his car. He heard muffled screaming and a struggle. He unholstered his weapon and went to investigate. He found a man kneeling over a struggling screaming woman, and the man raised a knife to stab her with. The single round that was fired was from less than 6 feet away and entered the perps skull just above his spinal cord, effectivly cutting his strings instantly. It turned out to be the estranged husband of the woman. She had a protective order (which is not germane), and there was a long history of abuse by the dead man. The dead man didnt know what hit him. BLIP and he was dead. Now in some states, the shooter could have been charged with 1. Not retreating 2. Not announcing 3. Discharging a firearm in a public place (city limits) My friend called the cops, and when they arrived, he followed all the rules. The only thing he said was "he was trying to kill her and I shot to stop him" and asked for a lawyer. No charges were filed, and in fact, he was given a citation for "outstanding citizenship" by a local organization. The dead mans next of kin tried to sue the shooter. It was tossed out of court, but did cost the shooter several thousand dollars in legal costs (picked up by another local gun rights organization) Another case, I belive Ive mentioned before Parents are out at a function. 12 yr old girl and 16 yr old girl were home alone. 12yr old in a ground floor bedroom, 16 yr old in an upper floor bedroom. A rapist broke in and attacked the 12yr old in her own bed. The screams got t he attention of the 16 yr old, who retrieved her fathers 44 magnum pistol, and loaded it. She came downstairs, saw the perp on top of the sister, and screamed at him. He came off the bed, and she let him have 2 , center of mass (about 1" apart, right smack over the heart..I saw the autopsy pics), effectly removing this gentleman from the gene pool and ending all chances of recidivism. She was also given a citizenship award. And a scholarship fund was set up. The antis of course were enraged that a 16 yr old had access to a 44 magnum pistol. And had blown the perps heart and spine, out all over the wall with jacketed hollowpoints. Quite a tado in the Liberal press. Enough that the District Attorney called a press conference, and stated on TV, (Ed Jagels) " that citizens have the right to self defense of them selves and others, and even if she had used a bazooka on him, it would have been ruled as a good shoot". Then he left the podium. Really ****ed off the Left..but oddly enough..he keeps getting reelected. Again, in some areas, she may have been required to retreat, announce and so forth. Which could have endangered both girls. Its quite against the law to shoot a fleeing felon. Even for cops. Unless..unless its reasonable to believe that if the felon is not stopped, he will continue to be a serious and immediate danger to others. Arsonists tend to be the normal example of this, along with violent bank robbers and so forth. Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
#104
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On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 23:35:14 GMT, xray
wrote: On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 22:20:31 GMT, Gunner Asch wrote: Id be happy to make up a "mousetrap" , and send it to you for "destructive testing". Shotgun primer or rifle? You just happen to have a bit of C4 lying around? It's not raw material for the average home shop. Or maybe you were just referring to the easy part -- the mousetrap assembly. The mousetrap assembly of course. Having high energy explosives with out the proper permits are a serious violation of the law. I still remember the day Marquez decided to heat some C's with a ball of C4. He used too much and the flames got scary large. He then tried to stomp it out with his foot. Everybody in the vicinity went diving for cover. As usual, he lucked out and it didn't blow. One of many dangerously stupid Marquez stories from Vietnam. Ive heated a gazillion cups of bullion on C4 fires. (never did like C-rat coffee), and yes..allowing pressure to build up (under your foot for too long a time could be a E ticket home, though learning to use a cane has its own issues. Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
#105
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On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:25:51 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote: On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 18:45:02 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner Asch quickly quoth: On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 05:56:44 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote: That's probably not the best attitude to have, Steve. You might want to rethink that since you really don't ever want to -need- to use the pistola on anyone. But we have them now for the day all Hell breaks loose. Indeed. Remove all thoughts of Rambo from your skull. And keep in mind that that CCW is there as a last resort. Period. End program. Full stop. Right. Walk softly, keep your mouth shut, be respectful, and never lose sight of the fact someone can simply walk up behind you and crush your skull with a brick. Ayup. Above all else, Situational Awareness Rules! Color Codes for Combat Readiness Experts in defensive tactics use color codes to describe levels of combat readiness. These levels represent how aware you are of threats around you and your resulting ability to deal with those threats. Popularized by pistol shooting guru Col. Jeff Cooper, the color codes range from Condition White, where you are totally oblivious to your surroundings, to Condition Red, where you are fighting. These color codes are as follows: Condition White: You are unaware of what's going on around you. Perhaps you're tired, or worried about work or school. Maybe your senses are impaired by alcohol or drugs. Either way, you are not ready--for anything. Condition Yellow: You are alert but calm and relaxed, scanning your surroundings for threats. You know who's in front of you, to your sides, and behind you. You don't think anyone will attack, but you are mentally ready in case something happens. Condition Orange: You sense that something is not right, and that you might be attacked. Perhaps there's a number of suspicious men standing around your car. Or in the classic Jeff Cooper example, a guy wearing a raincoat comes into your shop on a sweltering summer day. What's wrong with this picture? In Orange, you are aware of the positions of all potentially hostile people around you, as well as any weapons they may be able to use--in their hands or within reach. You are developing a plan for dealing with the potential hostiles: "...first I take out the guy with the bat, then the big guy near the truck..." You have also identified multiple escape routes, depending on what response you will use. In addition to being mentally ready, you are physically ready as well. Condition Red: The fight is on. Someone is assaulting you and you are reacting to the attack and defending yourself. You are taking immediate and decisive action to stop your opponent, flee, or get help. The original U.S. Marine Corps color codes are similar, except that in the USMC version, Red is battle ready, and Black is "fight." However, some pundits use Black to denote a state of fear overload: where you are so overwhelmed by the situation that you are paralyzed by fear. I personally feel that Red is the top level--in the USMC version, if you're in Red, you're a kick, slash, or trigger press away from being in a fight anyway. Notice how each color state builds upon the previous one--if you are already aware in Yellow, it is a simple matter to become prepared in Orange. Then, if you have to progress into Red and fight, your tactics are already ready and you have a much greater chance of survival. In White, you will become a victim. Your inattentiveness makes you an easy target, and that state will be noticed by an assailant. In Yellow, your alertness is equally as evident, and marks you as someone who won't be that easy to rob or assault. As someone who grew up in a big city, I learned to live most of my "outside" life in Yellow. Most of the street crime I witnessed as a kid were on unsuspecting victims--people in Condition White. Always being in Yellow was natural if you didn't want to get "jumped." Naturally, in many places and situations you don't have to worry about being assaulted. But in the city, in the stands at a football game, or anywhere your environment and the people around you is beyond your control, it makes sense to be aware. Being in Yellow can actually prevent assaults, and as the ancient sage Sun Tzu said, to win without fighting is best. Check out these links for more information on these color codes and combat readiness: "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
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On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 18:01:21 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote: "Gerald Miller" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 10:47:13 +0100, Mark Rand wrote: On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 21:15:46 -0700, "SteveB" wrote: "Rudy" wrote in message news:ceqXe.514904$s54.352232@pd7tw2no... When I am done, I am going to put in some booby traps Speaking of booby traps.. I read this in a book recently.. I loved it: Take a cheap Saturday nite special, take one round for it and pull out the bullet from the shell and dump out the powder. Replace it with C4 and push the bullet back in and reload..just the one round When the dirtbag that steals it tries it out...BOOM ! You get to track him by the blood trail from the 'stump' Two problems, Rudy. Where are you going to get the C4? A primer does not have the ability to detonate C4. I think you need to get your money back on that book. Steve Presumably very sweaty dynamite would work ok and be easier to acquire, Gunner? Mark Rand RTFM Just under 300 sticks went missing recently according to this mornings paper. It had been stored in a purpose built, locked, storage facility. Gerry :-)} London, Canada There was a program where the cops set up shop in cities that had military bases to buy no no's. One of the most common items brought in for sale was C4. An incredible amount. Don't get me wrong. C4 and PETN is a lot of fun, and can save a lot of work. It just draws a lot of attention. Steve PS: It's also very good fish bait............................. Dupont lures, Rule Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
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On 19 Sep 2005 20:36:14 -0700, "Too_Many_Tools"
wrote: "Walk softly, keep your mouth shut, be respectful, and never lose sight of the fact someone can simply walk up behind you and crush your skull with a brick. " ....And sue you down to your shorts to the point that you and your family is penniless if you use it incorrectly. Carrying a gun is one thing, using it means accepting the responsibility of what can come after. TMT Damned Straight. If you are not prepared to accept responsiblity for your actions..dont carry or own a firearm. Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
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On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 01:23:03 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote: On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 18:40:05 GMT, Gunner Asch wrote: Actually..Steve is wrong. A primer DOES have the ability to detonate c4 , RDX and others. We salted caches all over southeast Asia with such doctored rounds. I actually saw the results of such a round being fired. Not pretty, not pretty at all. Gunner Blasting caps and cartridge primers are similar in nature though caps have considerably more "stuff". A blasting cap will send a steel pot (military helmet) 100 feet up, and when it lands it will have many little holes in it. Indeed. Historically, most primers are a lead azide fulminate. Early ones were mercury fulminate. Lots of various compounds in between. Smokeless powder propellant is a monomolecular compound like HE, just has much lower detonation velocity. It still must be initated like HE, unlike oxy-fuel mixes like black powder and some IED's which need only be ignited. Actually, inhibited nitrocellulose gun powder is still considered a "propellent" as its chemistry is designed to NOT detonate. Brisance is the term. Cartridge primers can be smaller than blasting caps because they operate in a confined space -- a cartridge confined by a chamber. A small initiating charge produces high pressure, shock and temperature in such a situation. A cartridge primer embedded in unconfined HE, C4 or whatever, may or may not work. I'd suspect not, but I'd neither bet against it or on it. It would be damned hard to detonate an embedded primer G Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
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On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:33:26 GMT, xray
wrote: On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:12:06 GMT, Gunner Asch wrote: Very true indeed. Forensics are quite good these days, and making any fast attempt to cover anything up is gonna come down on you like a ton of ****. As is "dragging him into the house" As long as you follow the reasonable man guide..in MOST states you will be ok. Some states require you to retreat. Some require you to annouce you are armed, etc. Some allow you to shoot a trespasser unannounced in the back, if its dark out. Shrug I presented the "Must have reasonable fear" bit as its a very good rule of thumb Under a number of actual circumstances, you are quite legally able to shoot a perp in the back, unannounced. A case in point is one Im quite familiar with. A friend was shopping at K-mart just before closing time. He paid for his goods, and headed for his car. He heard muffled screaming and a struggle. He unholstered his weapon and went to investigate. He found a man kneeling over a struggling screaming woman, and the man raised a knife to stab her with. The single round that was fired was from less than 6 feet away and entered the perps skull just above his spinal cord, effectivly cutting his strings instantly. It turned out to be the estranged husband of the woman. She had a protective order (which is not germane), and there was a long history of abuse by the dead man. The dead man didnt know what hit him. BLIP and he was dead. Now in some states, the shooter could have been charged with 1. Not retreating 2. Not announcing 3. Discharging a firearm in a public place (city limits) My friend called the cops, and when they arrived, he followed all the rules. The only thing he said was "he was trying to kill her and I shot to stop him" and asked for a lawyer. No charges were filed, and in fact, he was given a citation for "outstanding citizenship" by a local organization. The dead mans next of kin tried to sue the shooter. It was tossed out of court, but did cost the shooter several thousand dollars in legal costs (picked up by another local gun rights organization) Another case, I belive Ive mentioned before Parents are out at a function. 12 yr old girl and 16 yr old girl were home alone. 12yr old in a ground floor bedroom, 16 yr old in an upper floor bedroom. A rapist broke in and attacked the 12yr old in her own bed. The screams got t he attention of the 16 yr old, who retrieved her fathers 44 magnum pistol, and loaded it. She came downstairs, saw the perp on top of the sister, and screamed at him. He came off the bed, and she let him have 2 , center of mass (about 1" apart, right smack over the heart..I saw the autopsy pics), effectly removing this gentleman from the gene pool and ending all chances of recidivism. She was also given a citizenship award. And a scholarship fund was set up. The antis of course were enraged that a 16 yr old had access to a 44 magnum pistol. And had blown the perps heart and spine, out all over the wall with jacketed hollowpoints. Quite a tado in the Liberal press. Enough that the District Attorney called a press conference, and stated on TV, (Ed Jagels) " that citizens have the right to self defense of them selves and others, and even if she had used a bazooka on him, it would have been ruled as a good shoot". Then he left the podium. Really ****ed off the Left..but oddly enough..he keeps getting reelected. Again, in some areas, she may have been required to retreat, announce and so forth. Which could have endangered both girls. Its quite against the law to shoot a fleeing felon. Even for cops. Unless..unless its reasonable to believe that if the felon is not stopped, he will continue to be a serious and immediate danger to others. Arsonists tend to be the normal example of this, along with violent bank robbers and so forth. Gunner seems to have a good summary here. I wouldn't argue with any of it. Odd thing is, in any discussion of Bush or the motivations for the Iraq war, I would be branded as a major leftie. Go figure. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&h...define:anomaly Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
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On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:21:57 GMT, xray
wrote: On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:15:23 GMT, Gunner Asch wrote: Ive heated a gazillion cups of bullion on C4 fires. There is of course the question, why during the colder parts of the year, we couldn't get enough heat tabs from supply, but we could get Claymores. Ummm, bad stocking decision? FTA. Its normal to use more heat tabs than claymores..hence there were more claymores in stock. Though it was a bitch to break down claymores for their cores. Far easier to simpply unwrap a c4 block and tear off a piece. Shrug. FTA indeed Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
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On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:48:17 GMT, xray
wrote: On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:17:42 GMT, Gunner Asch wrote: Condition White: You are unaware of what's going on around you. Perhaps you're tired, or worried about work or school. Maybe your senses are impaired by alcohol or drugs. Either way, you are not ready--for anything. Or maybe you're just self absorbed or clinically stupid. (I do have to admit the alcohol part has happened to me.) Surprizes me how many people I see living their lives in condition white. Another term (I think I invented it): The Escalator People -- Those fools who take one step off of the top of the escalator and then have a discussion or just daydream, oblivious to the rest of the escalator users who are now forced to find a new flow pattern or stack up against the "escalator people" Excellent term!!! Can we get a law that says it is ok to tazer the escalator people back into consciousness? Cattle prod. Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
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On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 23:39:48 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote: A little payback ain't such a bad deal. Unless, you are a bleeding heart liberal, and in that case, why don't you just post your address? Invite them over for a support group. Serve vienna sausages and Cheeze-Whiz. I could give a Flying Wallenda if they break a leg. Or injure their self-esteem. Steve Ive asked the anti-gun types if they were willing to post a (tasteful) sign in their front yard annoucing that they had a gun free household. At my expense. So far, no one has been willing and I only get a grumble or a mumble at the idea. And some embaressed shuffling of feet. GUnner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
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I like broken glass cemented on the top of concrete or brick wall or the
wrought iron fences in Charleston, SC with the roller spikes on top. Karl "Chris" wrote in message news "SteveB" wrote in message news:4_mXe.81078$DW1.62730@fed1read06... "Chris" wrote in message ... "SteveB" wrote in message news:GQmXe.81076$DW1.43608@fed1read06... When I am done, I am going to put in some booby traps that will bring blood and break bones. Anyone out there that ain't supposed to be there will just have to cope. Steve Just remember that dull objects (knives, etc.) create more pain than sharp objects. More pain equals more screams equals a living scarecrow. Hopefully scaring off the other thieves. Chris My imagination has been running amok. Mostly gravity actuated devices triggered by a trip wire. Anyone got any sites they would care to share? Steve I could jog the old memory as I took some simple classes way back. Using gravity is an option. Best used when the victim falls or steps (i.e. tiger trap). Plus you get more PSI in a human footstep than most animals. Chris |
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On 19 Sep 2005 20:36:14 -0700, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
TMT quoted someone but didn't bother to say who, when they said: "Walk softly, keep your mouth shut, be respectful, and never lose sight of the fact someone can simply walk up behind you and crush your skull with a brick. " ....And sue you down to your shorts to the point that you and your family is penniless if you use it incorrectly. The brick? You must have missed the point of the person you're quoting, by a lot. Carrying a gun is one thing, using it means accepting the responsibility of what can come after. Yes, nobody said otherwise. But, I'd rather be the one dealing with my actions, than have my survivors dealing with the results of my inaction. |
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On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 11:37:34 GMT, Karl Vorwerk wrote:
I like broken glass cemented on the top of concrete or brick wall I saw those in the less nice parts of Liverpool, also. |
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On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:24:05 GMT, Gunner Asch
wrote: Actually, inhibited nitrocellulose gun powder is still considered a "propellent" as its chemistry is designed to NOT detonate. Right, but (as you know) it goes a lot faster when confined. If you just pour a string of it on the sidewalk and light it, it burns -- but not all that fast. I think in a cartridge (or artillery piece) all of the grains get initiated at the same time and each goes at the rate it was designed to go. Brisance is the term. Cartridge primers can be smaller than blasting caps because they operate in a confined space -- a cartridge confined by a chamber. A small initiating charge produces high pressure, shock and temperature in such a situation. A cartridge primer embedded in unconfined HE, C4 or whatever, may or may not work. I'd suspect not, but I'd neither bet against it or on it. It would be damned hard to detonate an embedded primer G It is easy enough to initiate with a hot wire, but not much point in doing so with HE. I've used .22 blanks and electrically-heated wires as squibs. Advantage: it can be outside a sealed plastic enclosure and still work by punching thru the plastic. |
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"But, I'd rather be the one dealing with my actions, than have my
survivors dealing with the results of my inaction. " I agree....just be sure you are willing to deal with whatever the consequences and believe me there will be some....far too many people aren't willing to walk the talk. This goes for a gun, a knife, a dog, drinking and driving, one night stands, etc....the list goes on and on and on. TMT |
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On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:48:17 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, xray
quickly quoth: Surprizes me how many people I see living their lives in condition white. Not more than 95%, eh? Another term (I think I invented it): The Escalator People -- Those fools who take one step off of the top of the escalator and then have a discussion or just daydream, oblivious to the rest of the escalator users who are now forced to find a new flow pattern or stack up against the "escalator people" Can we get a law that says it is ok to tazer the escalator people back into consciousness? ROTFLMAO! I like it. And while they're out, stamp a nice, indelible red "S" on their forehead. They'll think how stupid they were every time they look in the mirror or see a person staring at it for at least a week thereafter. People with 4 or more concurrent esses would be deported to Washington D.C. with no hope for parole. ================================================== =================== -=Everything in Moderation,=- NoteSHADES(tm) glare guards -=including moderation.=- http://www.diversify.com ================================================== =================== |
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Steve, you misunderstand...I have NO problems with noisemakers and
such. And I am certainly not a "bleeding heart liberal"...quite the contrary. ;) It's the mantraps that will come back to bite you and yours...sometimes permanently. I can also assure you that you cannot watch your kids and their friends 24/7. With anything you do, ask yourself how you would react to their triggering any setup you install and would you be able to live with the consequences. I have personally seen the results of a child killed because of their parent's carelessness...it is a living hell for the parents and one that I would never want to live through myself. Stuff is replacable...people aren't...especially the ones you love. TMT |
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On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 20:26:04 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
Gerald Miller quickly quoth: Just under 300 sticks went missing recently according to this mornings paper. It had been stored in a purpose built, locked, storage facility. Gerry :-)} London, Canada That had to have happened in Canada. It couldn't happen here, where we have a smooth, well-oiled, ready, alert, and fully-manned Department of Homeland Security to keep us safe and free of terror. ================================================== =================== -=Everything in Moderation,=- NoteSHADES(tm) glare guards -=including moderation.=- http://www.diversify.com ================================================== =================== |
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