"SteveB" wrote in message
news:YUFXe.81146$DW1.68795@fed1read06...

"Gunner Asch" wrote

Actually..Steve is wrong. A primer DOES have the ability to detonate
c4 , RDX and others. We salted caches all over southeast Asia with
such doctored rounds. I actually saw the results of such a round being
fired. Not pretty, not pretty at all.

Gunner

I stand corrected. From what I recall of basic explosives training during
diving school, and actual field explosive work, I would not have thought
that a primer could reach the detonation velocity of C4.

Steve
Steve,
I was right there with ya. I thought I remembered in school as well
something about needing a hotter / longer source to ignite.

I got some lying around we could test with. Just need a volunteer to pull
the trigger.


JUST KIDDING.

Chris

Jon Elson wrote:
(snip)
Not true. A full-size adult was killed by his pet boa constrictor (yes,
the snake was HUGE) about 15 years ago, here in the St. Louis area.
Certainly rare, but it can happen. The guy was trying to cut the snake
with a pocket knife when he must have run out of air.

Jon

Sorry, I don't belive it was a boa. They max out at about 10'-12' long
and maybe 50 pounds. While it is theoretically possible, it is on the
same order as a poodle killing a grown man.

A burmese python on the other hand has been known to occasionally kill
people and are large enough to actually have a good chance of taking out a
grown man. They also can get to be 18' long and 150-200 pounds.
Todd
(who owns 2 boas, and has in the past owned a burmese python)

"jk" wrote in message
...
"SteveB" wrote:


I have the belief that the car should be arrested. If ANYONE flees from a
PO in a car, they just get the license number. They don't have to go
through the dangerous chase scenario. They do not have to identify the
driver, as the car committed the crime. Then, when the car is stopped
again, or the plate is run, it goes to car jail, and it costs the owner a
hefty sum to get it back. Or, DMV sends them a notice of cancellation of
registration.

It may be simplistic, but wouldn't it work?


Not in the slightest. THe guy steals a car, runs from the PO in it,
abandons it after he escapes. THe owner gets the car back and then
faces a big fine TOO.. Are you NUTS????????

jk

Oh, gee. Thanks for correcting me, and doing so tactfully.

I guess we should just keep up with the current system of doing things.
Innocent bystanders killed and maimed.

BTW, does anyone have the site where you can go live and watch the car
chases in LA? I heard they had an automated system that whenever there is a
car chase, they will beep you so you can get to a monitor and watch.

Well, that last group of Christians didn't fight worth a darn. Lets get
some more in here, and this time, send for some REALLY hungry lions.

Steve

"Chris" wrote in message
...

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:YUFXe.81146$DW1.68795@fed1read06...

"Gunner Asch" wrote

Actually..Steve is wrong. A primer DOES have the ability to detonate
c4 , RDX and others. We salted caches all over southeast Asia with
such doctored rounds. I actually saw the results of such a round being
fired. Not pretty, not pretty at all.

Gunner

I stand corrected. From what I recall of basic explosives training
during diving school, and actual field explosive work, I would not have
thought that a primer could reach the detonation velocity of C4.

Steve
Steve,
I was right there with ya. I thought I remembered in school as well
something about needing a hotter / longer source to ignite.

I got some lying around we could test with. Just need a volunteer to pull
the trigger.


JUST KIDDING.

Chris


Hey! It was YOUR idea..........

"Todd Rich" wrote in message
...
Jon Elson wrote:
(snip)
Not true. A full-size adult was killed by his pet boa constrictor (yes,
the snake was HUGE) about 15 years ago, here in the St. Louis area.
Certainly rare, but it can happen. The guy was trying to cut the snake
with a pocket knife when he must have run out of air.

Jon

Sorry, I don't belive it was a boa. They max out at about 10'-12' long
and maybe 50 pounds. While it is theoretically possible, it is on the
same order as a poodle killing a grown man.

A burmese python on the other hand has been known to occasionally kill
people and are large enough to actually have a good chance of taking out a
grown man. They also can get to be 18' long and 150-200 pounds.
Todd
(who owns 2 boas, and has in the past owned a burmese python)

I must have been dreaming a few years back when I saw that news footage of
the fireman hack sawing that snake in half that was killing its human
victim.

The newscaster said it was a boa. I don't think the snake, the fireman, or
the guy with the protruding eyeballs cared one whit. You know how those
newsmen lie about facts and details.

I DO remember, though, it WAS a snake.

Steve

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh writes:

A reputable estate attorney here in Florida set it up. It truly is no
shield against liability for me or my income stream, and any property
owned by the trust might be forfeit if I couldn't make the payments
(like our home). But the property owned outright by my son (his
trust) is not subject to attachment if I were found liable.

OK, so what's yours is at risk, and what isn't isn't. Living trusts have
nothing to do with it. They have their virtues, but limiting liability
isn't one of them.

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:14:06 GMT, Gunner Asch wrote:

he criteria, in virtually all jurisdictions, is :

"You must have reasonable cause to belive, that your life, or the life
of another is in immediate danger, before you can employ deadly force"

Reasonable, meaning it will pass the Reasonable Man test, which is
basicly what the jury will decide was reasonable.

In other words, keep a spare, unregistered gun or big knife at hand. Make
sure your fingerprints aren't on it, but the bad guys ones are...
Geoff

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 14:16:43 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote

Actually..Steve is wrong. A primer DOES have the ability to detonate
c4 , RDX and others. We salted caches all over southeast Asia with
such doctored rounds. I actually saw the results of such a round being
fired. Not pretty, not pretty at all.

Gunner

I stand corrected. From what I recall of basic explosives training during
diving school, and actual field explosive work, I would not have thought
that a primer could reach the detonation velocity of C4.

Steve

The only true Explosive in a cartridge is the primer/priming compound.
When in intimate contact with the flash hole, sufficent energy is
transfered to do the deed.

Shrug...its on the low end, but yah..it will toss a AK bolt backwards
fast enough embed it in the tree behind the shooters ...well..what
remains of the shooters skull.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:24:30 -0400, "Chris" wrote:


"SteveB" wrote in message
news:YUFXe.81146$DW1.68795@fed1read06...

"Gunner Asch" wrote

Actually..Steve is wrong. A primer DOES have the ability to detonate
c4 , RDX and others. We salted caches all over southeast Asia with
such doctored rounds. I actually saw the results of such a round being
fired. Not pretty, not pretty at all.

Gunner

I stand corrected. From what I recall of basic explosives training during
diving school, and actual field explosive work, I would not have thought
that a primer could reach the detonation velocity of C4.

Steve
Steve,
I was right there with ya. I thought I remembered in school as well
something about needing a hotter / longer source to ignite.

I got some lying around we could test with. Just need a volunteer to pull
the trigger.


JUST KIDDING.

Chris

Id be happy to make up a "mousetrap" , and send it to you for
"destructive testing". Shotgun primer or rifle?

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:08:10 +1200, Geoff M wrote:
On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:14:06 GMT, Gunner Asch wrote:

Reasonable, meaning it will pass the Reasonable Man test, which is
basicly what the jury will decide was reasonable.

In other words, keep a spare, unregistered gun or big knife at hand. Make
sure your fingerprints aren't on it, but the bad guys ones are...

I don't think that's what Gunner was saying at all. If someone breaks
into my house and threatens me and/or my family, I will stop them.
Trying to cover it up would make it look like I was somehow in the wrong
and needed to hide something. Let's keep the blame for the hypothetical
incident on the person who caused it, not play games with "drop guns" or
whatever. If the perp is a threat, you stop that threat, period. No
games, no "wipe the prints off" or whatever, just stop the threat.
This isn't Hollywood.

Dave Hinz

I got to get one of these theft deterent systems for my car :-)
http://www.trunkmonkey.com/content/view/44/51/

SteveB wrote:
"jk" wrote in message
...

"SteveB" wrote:



I have the belief that the car should be arrested. If ANYONE flees from a
PO in a car, they just get the license number. They don't have to go
through the dangerous chase scenario. They do not have to identify the
driver, as the car committed the crime. Then, when the car is stopped
again, or the plate is run, it goes to car jail, and it costs the owner a
hefty sum to get it back. Or, DMV sends them a notice of cancellation of
registration.

It may be simplistic, but wouldn't it work?


Not in the slightest. THe guy steals a car, runs from the PO in it,
abandons it after he escapes. THe owner gets the car back and then
faces a big fine TOO.. Are you NUTS????????

jk


Oh, gee. Thanks for correcting me, and doing so tactfully.

I guess we should just keep up with the current system of doing things.
Innocent bystanders killed and maimed.

BTW, does anyone have the site where you can go live and watch the car
chases in LA? I heard they had an automated system that whenever there is a
car chase, they will beep you so you can get to a monitor and watch.

Well, that last group of Christians didn't fight worth a darn. Lets get
some more in here, and this time, send for some REALLY hungry lions.

Steve

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:24:30 -0400, "Chris" wrote:


"SteveB" wrote in message
news:YUFXe.81146$DW1.68795@fed1read06...

"Gunner Asch" wrote

Actually..Steve is wrong. A primer DOES have the ability to detonate
c4 , RDX and others. We salted caches all over southeast Asia with
such doctored rounds. I actually saw the results of such a round being
fired. Not pretty, not pretty at all.

Gunner

I stand corrected. From what I recall of basic explosives training
during
diving school, and actual field explosive work, I would not have thought
that a primer could reach the detonation velocity of C4.

Steve
Steve,
I was right there with ya. I thought I remembered in school as well
something about needing a hotter / longer source to ignite.

I got some lying around we could test with. Just need a volunteer to pull
the trigger.


JUST KIDDING.

Chris

Id be happy to make up a "mousetrap" , and send it to you for
"destructive testing". Shotgun primer or rifle?

Gunner

NA, I will pass on that one. Although I could leave it "lying" around.

Chris

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 13:12:19 -0400,
wrote:



Here in Ontario Canada, auto theft is low priority. Either you find it
abandoned somewhere within a week, or it is gone fore-ever. If the
cops catch the thief it is an unexpected bonus.

They DO go after chop-shops agressively when they stumble across one.
And if your car is broken into, you take it to the reporting centre to
have a report filled out, but specify that you don't intend on making
an insurance claim because your insurer will probably refuse to renew
your policy since you are such a bad risk.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 18:45:02 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner
Asch quickly quoth:

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 05:56:44 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

That's probably not the best attitude to have, Steve. You might want
to rethink that since you really don't ever want to -need- to use the
pistola on anyone. But we have them now for the day all Hell breaks
loose.

Indeed. Remove all thoughts of Rambo from your skull. And keep in
mind that that CCW is there as a last resort. Period. End program.
Full stop.

Right.


Walk softly, keep your mouth shut, be respectful, and never lose sight
of the fact someone can simply walk up behind you and crush your skull
with a brick.

Ayup. Above all else, Situational Awareness Rules!


================================================== ===================
-=Everything in Moderation,=- NoteSHADES(tm) glare guards
-=including moderation.=- http://www.diversify.com
================================================== ===================

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 10:47:13 +0100, Mark Rand
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 21:15:46 -0700, "SteveB" wrote:


"Rudy" wrote in message
news:ceqXe.514904$s54.352232@pd7tw2no...
When I am done, I am going to put in some booby traps

Speaking of booby traps..
I read this in a book recently.. I loved it:

Take a cheap Saturday nite special, take one round for it and pull out the
bullet from the shell and dump out the powder.
Replace it with C4 and push the bullet back in and reload..just the one
round
When the dirtbag that steals it tries it out...BOOM !

You get to track him by the blood trail from the 'stump'

Two problems, Rudy.

Where are you going to get the C4?

A primer does not have the ability to detonate C4.

I think you need to get your money back on that book.

Steve



Presumably very sweaty dynamite would work ok and be easier to acquire,
Gunner?

Mark Rand
RTFM
Just under 300 sticks went missing recently according to this mornings
paper. It had been stored in a purpose built, locked, storage
facility.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

"Larry Jaques" wrote

Ayup. Above all else, Situational Awareness Rules!



I am either psychic or intuitive. I can sit at the mall, and watch people.
I can tell you about people's families. I can tell you which husband and
wife are fighting. I can tell you which father is porking which daughter.
I can tell you as much about people and families after fifteen minutes of
observation as a psychiatrist can after six sessions. I can sit in parking
lot situations, and have a thorough grasp on every character there.

Sometimes this is a blessing and a curse.

But, yes, you have to be aware. If you watch the Nature programs about the
wildebeest and the lions, it is always the dopey wildebeest that are away
from the crowd, pronking along ............ lah dee dee, lah dee dah
.............. doh tee doh ............ that end up as dinner.

Same with humans. I see people do some incredibly stupid things, and want
to go over and tell them, but they would probably pepper spray me, shoot me,
or call the cops.

I was a safety professional in another life. Same scenario. In those
cases, we usually got to talk to the people AFTER the incident.

Now, it is just easier to turn my head, walk away, and not have the stress.

I AM situationally aware to the sixth degree.

Steve

"Gerald Miller" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 10:47:13 +0100, Mark Rand
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 21:15:46 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:


"Rudy" wrote in message
news:ceqXe.514904$s54.352232@pd7tw2no...
When I am done, I am going to put in some booby traps

Speaking of booby traps..
I read this in a book recently.. I loved it:

Take a cheap Saturday nite special, take one round for it and pull out
the
bullet from the shell and dump out the powder.
Replace it with C4 and push the bullet back in and reload..just the one
round
When the dirtbag that steals it tries it out...BOOM !

You get to track him by the blood trail from the 'stump'

Two problems, Rudy.

Where are you going to get the C4?

A primer does not have the ability to detonate C4.

I think you need to get your money back on that book.

Steve



Presumably very sweaty dynamite would work ok and be easier to acquire,
Gunner?

Mark Rand
RTFM
Just under 300 sticks went missing recently according to this mornings
paper. It had been stored in a purpose built, locked, storage
facility.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

There was a program where the cops set up shop in cities that had military
bases to buy no no's. One of the most common items brought in for sale was
C4. An incredible amount.

Don't get me wrong. C4 and PETN is a lot of fun, and can save a lot of
work.

It just draws a lot of attention.

Steve

PS: It's also very good fish bait.............................

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 18:01:21 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:



Just under 300 sticks went missing recently according to this mornings
paper. It had been stored in a purpose built, locked, storage
facility.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

There was a program where the cops set up shop in cities that had military
bases to buy no no's. One of the most common items brought in for sale was
C4. An incredible amount.

Don't get me wrong. C4 and PETN is a lot of fun, and can save a lot of
work.

It just draws a lot of attention.

Steve

PS: It's also very good fish bait.............................


Our log cabin up north got a "no trespassing" sign posted on each side
one winter when weather shut down a road building job early, and
storage space was needed for about five tons of 60% dynamite. Outside
of our immediate family, only the "Powder Man" knew where it was until
time to pick it up the next spring. Of course things were a lot
simpler fifty years ago.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

"Walk softly, keep your mouth shut, be respectful, and never lose sight

of the fact someone can simply walk up behind you and crush your skull
with a brick. "


.....And sue you down to your shorts to the point that you and your
family is penniless if you use it incorrectly.

Carrying a gun is one thing, using it means accepting the
responsibility of what can come after.

TMT

"I hope no emergency workers (firemen, cops, etc.) need to get into
your
place while you're not around. It could spell a very long jail term for

you if they set off the traps. "

You got that right...like if you had lived in New Orleans and the
authorities were now checking your home for victums.

Or in a moment of inattention, your grandchild wanders into one of the
traps.

I have a very dim view of "traps" and I have seen the results of a jury
where someone tried to explain his way out of having set one.

In the case of this jury, the award was in the millions to the victum.

And the person who set the traps is still in prision.

TMT

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 18:40:05 GMT, Gunner Asch
wrote:


Actually..Steve is wrong. A primer DOES have the ability to detonate
c4 , RDX and others. We salted caches all over southeast Asia with
such doctored rounds. I actually saw the results of such a round being
fired. Not pretty, not pretty at all.

Gunner

Blasting caps and cartridge primers are similar in nature though caps
have considerably more "stuff". A blasting cap will send a steel
pot (military helmet) 100 feet up, and when it lands it will have many
little holes in it.

Smokeless powder propellant is a monomolecular compound like HE,
just has much lower detonation velocity. It still must be
initated like HE, unlike oxy-fuel mixes like black powder and
some IED's which need only be ignited.

Cartridge primers can be smaller than blasting caps because they
operate in a confined space -- a cartridge confined by a chamber. A
small initiating charge produces high pressure, shock and
temperature in such a situation.

A cartridge primer embedded in unconfined HE, C4 or whatever, may
or may not work. I'd suspect not, but I'd neither bet against it or
on it.

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
oups.com...
"I hope no emergency workers (firemen, cops, etc.) need to get into
your
place while you're not around. It could spell a very long jail term for

you if they set off the traps. "

You got that right...like if you had lived in New Orleans and the
authorities were now checking your home for victums.

Or in a moment of inattention, your grandchild wanders into one of the
traps.

I have a very dim view of "traps" and I have seen the results of a jury
where someone tried to explain his way out of having set one.

In the case of this jury, the award was in the millions to the victum.

And the person who set the traps is still in prision.

TMT


Get a grip, dude. It's not like I'm deliberately trying to kill someone.
Some monofilament hooked to some 1.5" thin galvanized tubes stood on end
will make a hell of a racket at night. Simple noisemaking "traps" are
effective, safe, and simple.

FYI, I have two sets of gates my grandchildren would have to go through to
get in my shop area. They are automatic and self closing. We keep an eye
on our kids, and don't let them just wander around. We also have a pool and
two jaccuzzis, and are without incident because we WATCH OUR KIDS. Not
something everyone does.

I have a dimmer view of "thieves" than you do of "traps." I have seen where
they have come out better in court than the victims they have sucked blood
out of. One broke into my house, and before they could trace him back to
his house (he left his car), he shaved and cut his hair off and didn't match
the description of a man with long scraggly black hair and a beard.

A little payback ain't such a bad deal. Unless, you are a bleeding heart
liberal, and in that case, why don't you just post your address? Invite
them over for a support group. Serve vienna sausages and Cheeze-Whiz.

I could give a Flying Wallenda if they break a leg. Or injure their
self-esteem.

Steve

On 19 Sep 2005 22:21:39 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:08:10 +1200, Geoff M wrote:
On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:14:06 GMT, Gunner Asch wrote:

Reasonable, meaning it will pass the Reasonable Man test, which is
basicly what the jury will decide was reasonable.

In other words, keep a spare, unregistered gun or big knife at hand. Make
sure your fingerprints aren't on it, but the bad guys ones are...

I don't think that's what Gunner was saying at all. If someone breaks
into my house and threatens me and/or my family, I will stop them.
Trying to cover it up would make it look like I was somehow in the wrong
and needed to hide something. Let's keep the blame for the hypothetical
incident on the person who caused it, not play games with "drop guns" or
whatever. If the perp is a threat, you stop that threat, period. No
games, no "wipe the prints off" or whatever, just stop the threat.
This isn't Hollywood.

Dave Hinz


Very true indeed. Forensics are quite good these days, and making any
fast attempt to cover anything up is gonna come down on you like a ton
of ****.

As is "dragging him into the house"

As long as you follow the reasonable man guide..in MOST states you
will be ok.

Some states require you to retreat. Some require you to annouce you
are armed, etc. Some allow you to shoot a trespasser unannounced in
the back, if its dark out. Shrug

I presented the "Must have reasonable fear" bit as its a very good
rule of thumb

Under a number of actual circumstances, you are quite legally able to
shoot a perp in the back, unannounced. A case in point is one Im
quite familiar with. A friend was shopping at K-mart just before
closing time. He paid for his goods, and headed for his car. He heard
muffled screaming and a struggle. He unholstered his weapon and went
to investigate. He found a man kneeling over a struggling screaming
woman, and the man raised a knife to stab her with. The single round
that was fired was from less than 6 feet away and entered the perps
skull just above his spinal cord, effectivly cutting his strings
instantly. It turned out to be the estranged husband of the woman.
She had a protective order (which is not germane), and there was a
long history of abuse by the dead man. The dead man didnt know what
hit him. BLIP and he was dead.

Now in some states, the shooter could have been charged with
1. Not retreating
2. Not announcing
3. Discharging a firearm in a public place (city limits)

My friend called the cops, and when they arrived, he followed all the
rules. The only thing he said was "he was trying to kill her and I
shot to stop him" and asked for a lawyer.

No charges were filed, and in fact, he was given a citation for
"outstanding citizenship" by a local organization. The dead mans next
of kin tried to sue the shooter. It was tossed out of court, but did
cost the shooter several thousand dollars in legal costs (picked up by
another local gun rights organization)

Another case, I belive Ive mentioned before

Parents are out at a function. 12 yr old girl and 16 yr old girl were
home alone. 12yr old in a ground floor bedroom, 16 yr old in an upper
floor bedroom. A rapist broke in and attacked the 12yr old in her own
bed. The screams got t he attention of the 16 yr old, who retrieved
her fathers 44 magnum pistol, and loaded it. She came downstairs, saw
the perp on top of the sister, and screamed at him. He came off the
bed, and she let him have 2 , center of mass (about 1" apart, right
smack over the heart..I saw the autopsy pics), effectly removing this
gentleman from the gene pool and ending all chances of recidivism.

She was also given a citizenship award. And a scholarship fund was
set up.

The antis of course were enraged that a 16 yr old had access to a 44
magnum pistol. And had blown the perps heart and spine, out all over
the wall with jacketed hollowpoints. Quite a tado in the Liberal
press. Enough that the District Attorney called a press conference,
and stated on TV, (Ed Jagels) " that citizens have the right to self
defense of them selves and others, and even if she had used a bazooka
on him, it would have been ruled as a good shoot". Then he left the
podium.

Really ****ed off the Left..but oddly enough..he keeps getting
reelected.

Again, in some areas, she may have been required to retreat, announce
and so forth. Which could have endangered both girls.

Its quite against the law to shoot a fleeing felon. Even for cops.

Unless..unless its reasonable to believe that if the felon is not
stopped, he will continue to be a serious and immediate danger to
others. Arsonists tend to be the normal example of this, along with
violent bank robbers and so forth.

Gunner



"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 23:35:14 GMT, xray
wrote:

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 22:20:31 GMT, Gunner Asch
wrote:

Id be happy to make up a "mousetrap" , and send it to you for
"destructive testing". Shotgun primer or rifle?

You just happen to have a bit of C4 lying around? It's not raw material
for the average home shop. Or maybe you were just referring to the easy
part -- the mousetrap assembly.

The mousetrap assembly of course. Having high energy explosives with
out the proper permits are a serious violation of the law.

I still remember the day Marquez decided to heat some C's with a ball of
C4. He used too much and the flames got scary large. He then tried to
stomp it out with his foot. Everybody in the vicinity went diving for
cover. As usual, he lucked out and it didn't blow.

One of many dangerously stupid Marquez stories from Vietnam.

Ive heated a gazillion cups of bullion on C4 fires. (never did like
C-rat coffee), and yes..allowing pressure to build up (under your foot
for too long a time could be a E ticket home, though learning to use a
cane has its own issues.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:25:51 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 18:45:02 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner
Asch quickly quoth:

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 05:56:44 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

That's probably not the best attitude to have, Steve. You might want
to rethink that since you really don't ever want to -need- to use the
pistola on anyone. But we have them now for the day all Hell breaks
loose.

Indeed. Remove all thoughts of Rambo from your skull. And keep in
mind that that CCW is there as a last resort. Period. End program.
Full stop.

Right.


Walk softly, keep your mouth shut, be respectful, and never lose sight
of the fact someone can simply walk up behind you and crush your skull
with a brick.

Ayup. Above all else, Situational Awareness Rules!

Color Codes for Combat Readiness

Experts in defensive tactics use color codes to describe levels of
combat readiness. These levels represent how aware you are of threats
around you and your resulting ability to deal with those threats.

Popularized by pistol shooting guru Col. Jeff Cooper, the color codes
range from Condition White, where you are totally oblivious to your
surroundings, to Condition Red, where you are fighting. These color
codes are as follows:

Condition White: You are unaware of what's going on around you.
Perhaps you're tired, or worried about work or school. Maybe your
senses are impaired by alcohol or drugs. Either way, you are not
ready--for anything.

Condition Yellow: You are alert but calm and relaxed, scanning your
surroundings for threats. You know who's in front of you, to your
sides, and behind you. You don't think anyone will attack, but you are
mentally ready in case something happens.

Condition Orange: You sense that something is not right, and that you
might be attacked. Perhaps there's a number of suspicious men standing
around your car. Or in the classic Jeff Cooper example, a guy wearing
a raincoat comes into your shop on a sweltering summer day. What's
wrong with this picture?

In Orange, you are aware of the positions of all potentially hostile
people around you, as well as any weapons they may be able to use--in
their hands or within reach. You are developing a plan for dealing
with the potential hostiles: "...first I take out the guy with the
bat, then the big guy near the truck..." You have also identified
multiple escape routes, depending on what response you will use. In
addition to being mentally ready, you are physically ready as well.


Condition Red: The fight is on. Someone is assaulting you and you are
reacting to the attack and defending yourself. You are taking
immediate and decisive action to stop your opponent, flee, or get
help.

The original U.S. Marine Corps color codes are similar, except that in
the USMC version, Red is battle ready, and Black is "fight." However,
some pundits use Black to denote a state of fear overload: where you
are so overwhelmed by the situation that you are paralyzed by fear. I
personally feel that Red is the top level--in the USMC version, if
you're in Red, you're a kick, slash, or trigger press away from being
in a fight anyway.

Notice how each color state builds upon the previous one--if you are
already aware in Yellow, it is a simple matter to become prepared in
Orange. Then, if you have to progress into Red and fight, your tactics
are already ready and you have a much greater chance of survival.

In White, you will become a victim. Your inattentiveness makes you an
easy target, and that state will be noticed by an assailant. In
Yellow, your alertness is equally as evident, and marks you as someone
who won't be that easy to rob or assault.

As someone who grew up in a big city, I learned to live most of my
"outside" life in Yellow. Most of the street crime I witnessed as a
kid were on unsuspecting victims--people in Condition White. Always
being in Yellow was natural if you didn't want to get "jumped."

Naturally, in many places and situations you don't have to worry about
being assaulted. But in the city, in the stands at a football game, or
anywhere your environment and the people around you is beyond your
control, it makes sense to be aware. Being in Yellow can actually
prevent assaults, and as the ancient sage Sun Tzu said, to win without
fighting is best.

Check out these links for more information on these color codes and
combat readiness:
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 18:01:21 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:


"Gerald Miller" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 10:47:13 +0100, Mark Rand
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 21:15:46 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:


"Rudy" wrote in message
news:ceqXe.514904$s54.352232@pd7tw2no...
When I am done, I am going to put in some booby traps

Speaking of booby traps..
I read this in a book recently.. I loved it:

Take a cheap Saturday nite special, take one round for it and pull out
the
bullet from the shell and dump out the powder.
Replace it with C4 and push the bullet back in and reload..just the one
round
When the dirtbag that steals it tries it out...BOOM !

You get to track him by the blood trail from the 'stump'

Two problems, Rudy.

Where are you going to get the C4?

A primer does not have the ability to detonate C4.

I think you need to get your money back on that book.

Steve



Presumably very sweaty dynamite would work ok and be easier to acquire,
Gunner?

Mark Rand
RTFM
Just under 300 sticks went missing recently according to this mornings
paper. It had been stored in a purpose built, locked, storage
facility.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

There was a program where the cops set up shop in cities that had military
bases to buy no no's. One of the most common items brought in for sale was
C4. An incredible amount.

Don't get me wrong. C4 and PETN is a lot of fun, and can save a lot of
work.

It just draws a lot of attention.

Steve

PS: It's also very good fish bait.............................


Dupont lures, Rule

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On 19 Sep 2005 20:36:14 -0700, "Too_Many_Tools"
wrote:

"Walk softly, keep your mouth shut, be respectful, and never lose sight

of the fact someone can simply walk up behind you and crush your skull
with a brick. "


....And sue you down to your shorts to the point that you and your
family is penniless if you use it incorrectly.

Carrying a gun is one thing, using it means accepting the
responsibility of what can come after.

TMT

Damned Straight.

If you are not prepared to accept responsiblity for your actions..dont
carry or own a firearm.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 01:23:03 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 18:40:05 GMT, Gunner Asch
wrote:


Actually..Steve is wrong. A primer DOES have the ability to detonate
c4 , RDX and others. We salted caches all over southeast Asia with
such doctored rounds. I actually saw the results of such a round being
fired. Not pretty, not pretty at all.

Gunner

Blasting caps and cartridge primers are similar in nature though caps
have considerably more "stuff". A blasting cap will send a steel
pot (military helmet) 100 feet up, and when it lands it will have many
little holes in it.

Indeed. Historically, most primers are a lead azide fulminate. Early
ones were mercury fulminate. Lots of various compounds in between.

Smokeless powder propellant is a monomolecular compound like HE,
just has much lower detonation velocity. It still must be
initated like HE, unlike oxy-fuel mixes like black powder and
some IED's which need only be ignited.


Actually, inhibited nitrocellulose gun powder is still considered a
"propellent" as its chemistry is designed to NOT detonate.

Brisance is the term.

Cartridge primers can be smaller than blasting caps because they
operate in a confined space -- a cartridge confined by a chamber. A
small initiating charge produces high pressure, shock and
temperature in such a situation.

A cartridge primer embedded in unconfined HE, C4 or whatever, may
or may not work. I'd suspect not, but I'd neither bet against it or
on it.

It would be damned hard to detonate an embedded primer G

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:33:26 GMT, xray
wrote:

On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:12:06 GMT, Gunner Asch
wrote:

Very true indeed. Forensics are quite good these days, and making any
fast attempt to cover anything up is gonna come down on you like a ton
of ****.

As is "dragging him into the house"

As long as you follow the reasonable man guide..in MOST states you
will be ok.

Some states require you to retreat. Some require you to annouce you
are armed, etc. Some allow you to shoot a trespasser unannounced in
the back, if its dark out. Shrug

I presented the "Must have reasonable fear" bit as its a very good
rule of thumb

Under a number of actual circumstances, you are quite legally able to
shoot a perp in the back, unannounced. A case in point is one Im
quite familiar with. A friend was shopping at K-mart just before
closing time. He paid for his goods, and headed for his car. He heard
muffled screaming and a struggle. He unholstered his weapon and went
to investigate. He found a man kneeling over a struggling screaming
woman, and the man raised a knife to stab her with. The single round
that was fired was from less than 6 feet away and entered the perps
skull just above his spinal cord, effectivly cutting his strings
instantly. It turned out to be the estranged husband of the woman.
She had a protective order (which is not germane), and there was a
long history of abuse by the dead man. The dead man didnt know what
hit him. BLIP and he was dead.

Now in some states, the shooter could have been charged with
1. Not retreating
2. Not announcing
3. Discharging a firearm in a public place (city limits)

My friend called the cops, and when they arrived, he followed all the
rules. The only thing he said was "he was trying to kill her and I
shot to stop him" and asked for a lawyer.

No charges were filed, and in fact, he was given a citation for
"outstanding citizenship" by a local organization. The dead mans next
of kin tried to sue the shooter. It was tossed out of court, but did
cost the shooter several thousand dollars in legal costs (picked up by
another local gun rights organization)

Another case, I belive Ive mentioned before

Parents are out at a function. 12 yr old girl and 16 yr old girl were
home alone. 12yr old in a ground floor bedroom, 16 yr old in an upper
floor bedroom. A rapist broke in and attacked the 12yr old in her own
bed. The screams got t he attention of the 16 yr old, who retrieved
her fathers 44 magnum pistol, and loaded it. She came downstairs, saw
the perp on top of the sister, and screamed at him. He came off the
bed, and she let him have 2 , center of mass (about 1" apart, right
smack over the heart..I saw the autopsy pics), effectly removing this
gentleman from the gene pool and ending all chances of recidivism.

She was also given a citizenship award. And a scholarship fund was
set up.

The antis of course were enraged that a 16 yr old had access to a 44
magnum pistol. And had blown the perps heart and spine, out all over
the wall with jacketed hollowpoints. Quite a tado in the Liberal
press. Enough that the District Attorney called a press conference,
and stated on TV, (Ed Jagels) " that citizens have the right to self
defense of them selves and others, and even if she had used a bazooka
on him, it would have been ruled as a good shoot". Then he left the
podium.

Really ****ed off the Left..but oddly enough..he keeps getting
reelected.

Again, in some areas, she may have been required to retreat, announce
and so forth. Which could have endangered both girls.

Its quite against the law to shoot a fleeing felon. Even for cops.

Unless..unless its reasonable to believe that if the felon is not
stopped, he will continue to be a serious and immediate danger to
others. Arsonists tend to be the normal example of this, along with
violent bank robbers and so forth.

Gunner seems to have a good summary here. I wouldn't argue with any of
it.

Odd thing is, in any discussion of Bush or the motivations for the Iraq
war, I would be branded as a major leftie. Go figure.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&h...define:anomaly

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:21:57 GMT, xray
wrote:

On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:15:23 GMT, Gunner Asch
wrote:

Ive heated a gazillion cups of bullion on C4 fires.

There is of course the question, why during the colder parts of the
year, we couldn't get enough heat tabs from supply, but we could get
Claymores. Ummm, bad stocking decision? FTA.

Its normal to use more heat tabs than claymores..hence there were more
claymores in stock. Though it was a bitch to break down claymores for
their cores. Far easier to simpply unwrap a c4 block and tear off a
piece.

Shrug.

FTA indeed

Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:48:17 GMT, xray
wrote:

On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:17:42 GMT, Gunner Asch
wrote:

Condition White: You are unaware of what's going on around you.
Perhaps you're tired, or worried about work or school. Maybe your
senses are impaired by alcohol or drugs. Either way, you are not
ready--for anything.

Or maybe you're just self absorbed or clinically stupid. (I do have to
admit the alcohol part has happened to me.)

Surprizes me how many people I see living their lives in condition
white.

Another term (I think I invented it):

The Escalator People --
Those fools who take one step off of the top of the escalator and then
have a discussion or just daydream, oblivious to the rest of the
escalator users who are now forced to find a new flow pattern or stack
up against the "escalator people"

Excellent term!!!

Can we get a law that says it is ok to tazer the escalator people back
into consciousness?

Cattle prod.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 23:39:48 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:

A little payback ain't such a bad deal. Unless, you are a bleeding heart
liberal, and in that case, why don't you just post your address? Invite
them over for a support group. Serve vienna sausages and Cheeze-Whiz.

I could give a Flying Wallenda if they break a leg. Or injure their
self-esteem.

Steve


Ive asked the anti-gun types if they were willing to post a (tasteful)
sign in their front yard annoucing that they had a gun free household.
At my expense.

So far, no one has been willing and I only get a grumble or a mumble
at the idea. And some embaressed shuffling of feet.

GUnner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

I like broken glass cemented on the top of concrete or brick wall or the
wrought iron fences in Charleston, SC with the roller spikes on top.
Karl

"Chris" wrote in message
news

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:4_mXe.81078$DW1.62730@fed1read06...

"Chris" wrote in message
...

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:GQmXe.81076$DW1.43608@fed1read06...

When I am done, I am going to put in some booby traps that will bring
blood and break bones. Anyone out there that ain't supposed to be
there will just have to cope.

Steve

Just remember that dull objects (knives, etc.) create more pain than
sharp objects. More pain equals more screams equals a living scarecrow.
Hopefully scaring off the other thieves.

Chris

My imagination has been running amok. Mostly gravity actuated devices
triggered by a trip wire. Anyone got any sites they would care to share?

Steve

I could jog the old memory as I took some simple classes way back.

Using gravity is an option. Best used when the victim falls or steps
(i.e. tiger trap). Plus you get more PSI in a human footstep than most
animals.

Chris

On 19 Sep 2005 20:36:14 -0700, Too_Many_Tools wrote:

TMT quoted someone but didn't bother to say who, when they said:

"Walk softly, keep your mouth shut, be respectful, and never lose sight
of the fact someone can simply walk up behind you and crush your skull
with a brick. "

....And sue you down to your shorts to the point that you and your
family is penniless if you use it incorrectly.

The brick? You must have missed the point of the person you're quoting,
by a lot.

Carrying a gun is one thing, using it means accepting the
responsibility of what can come after.

Yes, nobody said otherwise. But, I'd rather be the one dealing with my
actions, than have my survivors dealing with the results of my inaction.

On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 11:37:34 GMT, Karl Vorwerk wrote:
I like broken glass cemented on the top of concrete or brick wall

I saw those in the less nice parts of Liverpool, also.

On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:24:05 GMT, Gunner Asch
wrote:

Actually, inhibited nitrocellulose gun powder is still considered a
"propellent" as its chemistry is designed to NOT detonate.

Right, but (as you know) it goes a lot faster when confined. If
you just pour a string of it on the sidewalk and light it, it burns --
but not all that fast. I think in a cartridge (or artillery piece)
all of the grains get initiated at the same time and each goes at the
rate it was designed to go.

Brisance is the term.

Cartridge primers can be smaller than blasting caps because they
operate in a confined space -- a cartridge confined by a chamber. A
small initiating charge produces high pressure, shock and
temperature in such a situation.

A cartridge primer embedded in unconfined HE, C4 or whatever, may
or may not work. I'd suspect not, but I'd neither bet against it or
on it.

It would be damned hard to detonate an embedded primer G

It is easy enough to initiate with a hot wire, but not much point
in doing so with HE. I've used .22 blanks and electrically-heated
wires as squibs. Advantage: it can be outside a sealed plastic
enclosure and still work by punching thru the plastic.

"But, I'd rather be the one dealing with my actions, than have my
survivors dealing with the results of my inaction. "

I agree....just be sure you are willing to deal with whatever the
consequences and believe me there will be some....far too many people
aren't willing to walk the talk.

This goes for a gun, a knife, a dog, drinking and driving, one night
stands, etc....the list goes on and on and on.

TMT

On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:48:17 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, xray
quickly quoth:

Surprizes me how many people I see living their lives in condition
white.

Not more than 95%, eh?


Another term (I think I invented it):

The Escalator People --
Those fools who take one step off of the top of the escalator and then
have a discussion or just daydream, oblivious to the rest of the
escalator users who are now forced to find a new flow pattern or stack
up against the "escalator people"

Can we get a law that says it is ok to tazer the escalator people back
into consciousness?

ROTFLMAO! I like it. And while they're out, stamp a nice, indelible
red "S" on their forehead. They'll think how stupid they were every
time they look in the mirror or see a person staring at it for at
least a week thereafter. People with 4 or more concurrent esses would
be deported to Washington D.C. with no hope for parole.


================================================== ===================
-=Everything in Moderation,=- NoteSHADES(tm) glare guards
-=including moderation.=- http://www.diversify.com
================================================== ===================

Steve, you misunderstand...I have NO problems with noisemakers and
such.

And I am certainly not a "bleeding heart liberal"...quite the contrary.
;)

It's the mantraps that will come back to bite you and yours...sometimes
permanently.

I can also assure you that you cannot watch your kids and their friends
24/7. With anything you do, ask yourself how you would react to their
triggering any setup you install and would you be able to live with the
consequences.

I have personally seen the results of a child killed because of their
parent's carelessness...it is a living hell for the parents and one
that I would never want to live through myself.

Stuff is replacable...people aren't...especially the ones you love.

TMT

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 20:26:04 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
Gerald Miller quickly quoth:

Just under 300 sticks went missing recently according to this mornings
paper. It had been stored in a purpose built, locked, storage
facility.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

That had to have happened in Canada. It couldn't happen here, where we
have a smooth, well-oiled, ready, alert, and fully-manned Department
of Homeland Security to keep us safe and free of terror.


================================================== ===================
-=Everything in Moderation,=- NoteSHADES(tm) glare guards
-=including moderation.=- http://www.diversify.com
================================================== ===================