In article . com,
jboothbee @ gmail.com wrote:

ANYWAY, it's interesting how vehicle theft is actively pursued due to our
penal codes. I suppose it is a carry-over from horse thieving days. Our
vehicles are everything. Other things don't matter.

#1)nobody is a cop because they want to better society
#2)every cop either got molested/beaten/picked on as a kid OR
#3)just love to be above the law.

A call comes in on the radio. Burglary. You take a bite off your
doughnut.
That donut baby just keeps getting bigger. You don't want to go chase
a burglar on foot. Another call on the radio. HIGH SPEED CAR CHASE.

the department just got you a 2006 Ford Interceptor. 350 horsepower,
ABS, etc etc. Now that sounds like fun. Something you can tell your
buddies at the bar.

Burn some rubber of your tires, run over a pedestrian, and chase that
guy down. It provides entertainment for the stupid masses as well.
Everyone
sits at home, glued to the television, watching the latest "drama" on
television. A pinto driven at 75-Mph the wrong way down the freeway,
with 40 cops from 5 different counties in hot pursuit.

$250,000 in police vehicle and road sign damage , and the pinto
thief is caught. The old lady that was run over. She's dead. The
family that got their minivan ran into by the cops. They're screwed.
The driver of the pinto? Free transportation to the border.

I love the USA.


.... and you have a higher opinion of law enforcement industry
'professionals' than I do. Don't get me started...

I have an engraver, and have my name and license number prominently
engraved on most everything. Doing so has probably saved a few grand in
tools alone over the years, and has even made a cop save or two... but
mostly gentle reminders to friends/family who've borrowed stuff over the
years.

I engrave it all... that one little screwdriver may be just the needed
link to bigger stuff some day. I do the back of TV's, stereo's,
microwave's and everything else that could conceivably walk off too.

Erik

On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 16:35:04 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:

When I am done, I am going to put in some booby traps that will bring blood
and break bones. Anyone out there that ain't supposed to be there will just
have to cope.

Steve

Not to spoil anyone's fantasy life, guys -- but lawsuits can cost you
a lot more than thieves do, and thieves have no problem finding
scumbag lawyers. Booby traps may be a feelgood solution if you
can afford legal defense or can contrive to make them untraceable
to you -- which means (among other things) that they must operate
somewhere else. Not saying you shouldn't do it, far from it. I
would, however, suggest that you might think ahead a bit, be
somewhat creative, sneaky, devious cunning and sly to minimize your
exposure to the *real* predators. I'd also suggest that publicly
posting your creative solutions to a newsgroup is a bad idea.

Courts and juries go by "reasonable under the circumstances". What
counts is what they deem reasonable, not what you deem reasonable.

Use of razorwire is common (therefore defensibly "reasonable" to Ms
Jurist), and is deterrent because it is visually intimidating and
probably not easy to breach quietly for the dull punk with no
training. Noisemakers and lights are also acceptable and often
effective except in sits ('hoods) where the punks know nobody will
pay any attention so the hell with it. Claymores might not sell well
to a jury after the fact.

As for having a gun and shooting miscreants, I'd say "go for it!" I
won't shoot unless the sit is crystal-clear -- intruder in my domocile
in the nightime or weapon evident as lethal threat to me or mine --
but go for it. The punks you waste are taken off the board for the
rest of us while you deal with the legal cost and consequences.
Good on ya if you can do it and get away with it.

If you shoot, you must kill or face likely civil suit that could ruin
you financially for life. Nearly any street cop will tell you
that. If you have nothing to take then your probably OK. They
can't take your house, but they can take nearly everything else
including future earnings if they're worth a lawyer's time to go
after.

Either way, you're then either up for manslaughter or not, depending
on the circumstances as the cops see 'em when they get there. They
may decide not to charge or arrest, and/or the prosecutor may decide
not to pursue indictment. If they do, you can take yer chances
with a jury or deal it down. You could probably deal it down to a
year or two in the slammer, might even skate with a sympathetic jury
of peers -- yours and those of the asshole you killed.

If you haven't killed a man before, be sure you can live with that
because it can't be undone. You won't really know until you've done
it, but thinking about it a bit beforehand might not be a bad idea.
Some guys do have trouble with it after passion has dissipated but
the deed is still done.

On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 16:35:04 -0700, SteveB wrote:

When I am done, I am going to put in some booby traps that will bring blood
and break bones. Anyone out there that ain't supposed to be there will just
have to cope.

I hope no emergency workers (firemen, cops, etc.) need to get into your
place while you're not around. It could spell a very long jail term for
you if they set off the traps.

On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 20:15:03 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:


"Don Bruder" wrote

Absolutely true in the society we're living in today... Shoot 'em, but
make sure the body falls inside - Also, make sure to empty your weaopn
and claim that fear for your life made you just keep squeezing the
trigger over and over in a panic until the gun didn't do anything but go
click click click.

--
Don Bruder -

This is too weird. Today, I got my CCW in the mail. Yah, the one I went to
school for on 4/6/05, and it was supposed to take 90 days to get. Ya, that
one.

Although it has nothing to do with private property, I did carry my pistol
legally on a bank run today.

And, might I say, with a bit of attitude.

Yeah..... go ahead ..... make my day.

Please.


The ego thing will go away shortly. Pretty soon it will be like
wearing a watch.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 02:20:44 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:


If you shoot, you must kill or face likely civil suit that could ruin
you financially for life. Nearly any street cop will tell you
that. If you have nothing to take then your probably OK. They
can't take your house, but they can take nearly everything else
including future earnings if they're worth a lawyer's time to go
after.

Either way, you're then either up for manslaughter or not, depending
on the circumstances as the cops see 'em when they get there. They
may decide not to charge or arrest, and/or the prosecutor may decide
not to pursue indictment. If they do, you can take yer chances
with a jury or deal it down. You could probably deal it down to a
year or two in the slammer, might even skate with a sympathetic jury
of peers -- yours and those of the asshole you killed.

If you haven't killed a man before, be sure you can live with that
because it can't be undone. You won't really know until you've done
it, but thinking about it a bit beforehand might not be a bad idea.
Some guys do have trouble with it after passion has dissipated but
the deed is still done.


The criteria, in virtually all jurisdictions, is :

"You must have reasonable cause to belive, that your life, or the life
of another is in immediate danger, before you can employ deadly force"

Reasonable, meaning it will pass the Reasonable Man test, which is
basicly what the jury will decide was reasonable.

If you do have to employ deadly force, after the cops come..say
nothing except " I wish to speak with an attorney" Period. Nothing
else. End program, full stop.

Let the lawyer do the talking. In most states, shooting someone
rightiously is considered a good thing. In some urban areas, notably
in the Northeast....you are considered a murderer, even if the perp
had just gunned down a busload of nuns.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Let the record show that Gunner Asch wrote back on
Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:08:16 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking :
On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 20:15:03 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:


"Don Bruder" wrote

Absolutely true in the society we're living in today... Shoot 'em, but
make sure the body falls inside - Also, make sure to empty your weaopn
and claim that fear for your life made you just keep squeezing the
trigger over and over in a panic until the gun didn't do anything but go
click click click.

--
Don Bruder -

This is too weird. Today, I got my CCW in the mail. Yah, the one I went to
school for on 4/6/05, and it was supposed to take 90 days to get. Ya, that
one.

Although it has nothing to do with private property, I did carry my pistol
legally on a bank run today.

And, might I say, with a bit of attitude.

Yeah..... go ahead ..... make my day.

Please.


The ego thing will go away shortly. Pretty soon it will be like
wearing a watch.

A big, heavy, oily, "watch". :-)

"oh, my, look at the time, gotta go!"


pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich
"The world seldom needs saving. I, on the other hand, just might!"
Mike Eglestone, tpg. 2001.06.01

On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 21:15:46 -0700, "SteveB" wrote:


"Rudy" wrote in message
news:ceqXe.514904$s54.352232@pd7tw2no...
When I am done, I am going to put in some booby traps

Speaking of booby traps..
I read this in a book recently.. I loved it:

Take a cheap Saturday nite special, take one round for it and pull out the
bullet from the shell and dump out the powder.
Replace it with C4 and push the bullet back in and reload..just the one
round
When the dirtbag that steals it tries it out...BOOM !

You get to track him by the blood trail from the 'stump'

Two problems, Rudy.

Where are you going to get the C4?

A primer does not have the ability to detonate C4.

I think you need to get your money back on that book.

Steve



Presumably very sweaty dynamite would work ok and be easier to acquire,
Gunner?

Mark Rand
RTFM

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 09:32:26 GMT, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Let the record show that Gunner Asch wrote back on
Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:08:16 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking :
On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 20:15:03 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:


"Don Bruder" wrote

Absolutely true in the society we're living in today... Shoot 'em, but
make sure the body falls inside - Also, make sure to empty your weaopn
and claim that fear for your life made you just keep squeezing the
trigger over and over in a panic until the gun didn't do anything but go
click click click.

--
Don Bruder -

This is too weird. Today, I got my CCW in the mail. Yah, the one I went to
school for on 4/6/05, and it was supposed to take 90 days to get. Ya, that
one.

Although it has nothing to do with private property, I did carry my pistol
legally on a bank run today.

And, might I say, with a bit of attitude.

Yeah..... go ahead ..... make my day.

Please.


The ego thing will go away shortly. Pretty soon it will be like
wearing a watch.

A big, heavy, oily, "watch". :-)

"oh, my, look at the time, gotta go!"


pyotr

Chuckle..as Cooper says..its not supposed to be comfortable..just
comforting.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

In article , Gunner Asch says...

Reasonable, meaning it will pass the Reasonable Man test, which is
basicly what the jury will decide was reasonable.

This is "beyond a reasonable doubt" which is the standard in a
*criminal* trial. Remember though for a civil trial it is
'preponderance of the evidence" which is much less strict
standard.

Hence the desire to avoid the chance for a civil trial.

This is what my wife explains as "if you hit a pedestrian, it is
sometimes better to back up and do it again."

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 20:15:03 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
"SteveB" quickly quoth:

"Don Bruder" wrote

Absolutely true in the society we're living in today... Shoot 'em, but
make sure the body falls inside - Also, make sure to empty your weaopn
and claim that fear for your life made you just keep squeezing the
trigger over and over in a panic until the gun didn't do anything but go
click click click.

The old "They just kept coming at me." ploy, eh, Don? Just make sure
there isn't anything in your bloodstream they could use against you.


This is too weird. Today, I got my CCW in the mail. Yah, the one I went to
school for on 4/6/05, and it was supposed to take 90 days to get. Ya, that
one.

Mine took just over two weeks. /neener


Although it has nothing to do with private property, I did carry my pistol
legally on a bank run today.

And, might I say, with a bit of attitude.

Yeah..... go ahead ..... make my day.

Please.

That's probably not the best attitude to have, Steve. You might want
to rethink that since you really don't ever want to -need- to use the
pistola on anyone. But we have them now for the day all Hell breaks
loose.


- Metaphors Be With You -
http://diversify.com Web Application Programming

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:ih8Xe.80447$DW1.38403@fed1read06...
Today I went to fill out a police report.

Missing:

One Jackson hood with NexGen EQC lens
One two horse Sears compressor (the old quiet one)
One new 9527 Makita grinder
One new 9501B Makita grinder
One Toro leaf blower

Chances of recovery ............ between none and zero. My daughter is a
PO, and son in law is in the intelligence department. Both have told me
chances are slim.

Bottom line ............. secure your stuff.

Scum is everywhere.

Steve


one of the best deterrants I have found is motion detectors that trigger the
sprinkler system in the yard.
amazing what a whole lot of water can do.
been thinking of linking a system to a sniffer to keep the graffiti artists
at bay as well.

Doug

"Doug Schultz" wrote in message
news:nYyXe.516344$5V4.27414@pd7tw3no...

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:ih8Xe.80447$DW1.38403@fed1read06...
Today I went to fill out a police report.

Missing:

One Jackson hood with NexGen EQC lens
One two horse Sears compressor (the old quiet one)
One new 9527 Makita grinder
One new 9501B Makita grinder
One Toro leaf blower

Chances of recovery ............ between none and zero. My daughter is a
PO, and son in law is in the intelligence department. Both have told me
chances are slim.

Bottom line ............. secure your stuff.

Scum is everywhere.

Steve


one of the best deterrants I have found is motion detectors that trigger
the sprinkler system in the yard.
amazing what a whole lot of water can do.
been thinking of linking a system to a sniffer to keep the graffiti
artists at bay as well.

Doug


Doug,
Now you have gone and done it!
Is it not argued these days that graffiti is a free form of artistic
expression? You are curtailing their freedom of expression by not allowing
the punks to deface your property.

Seriously, it would not surprise me if some scumbag lawyer already went this
route.

Chris

"Gunner Asch" wrote

The ego thing will go away shortly. Pretty soon it will be like
wearing a watch.

Gunner



I have been carrying for ten years. They are bothersome, uncomfortable, and
you really have to watch it so you don't drop it or expose it. I just let
it lapse, and therefore, my right to carry was interrupted.

STeve

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 02:20:44 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:


If you shoot, you must kill or face likely civil suit that could ruin
you financially for life.

I own literally nothing. It is all in living and family trusts.

Steve

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:38:21 -0700, SteveB wrote:

I have been carrying for ten years. They are bothersome, uncomfortable, and
you really have to watch it so you don't drop it or expose it. I just let
it lapse, and therefore, my right to carry was interrupted.

Your right wasn't interrupted, Steve; you had the right, you just chose
to let your license to exercise that right lapse. One could argue that
everyone, inherently, has the right, but that not all places acknowledge
that right.

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:40:02 -0700, the renowned "SteveB"
wrote:

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 02:20:44 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:


If you shoot, you must kill or face likely civil suit that could ruin
you financially for life.

I own literally nothing. It is all in living and family trusts.

Steve

Just out of curiosity, and if you are willing to say, why would you
arrange your affairs that way?



Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

"Spehro Pefhany" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:40:02 -0700, the renowned "SteveB"
wrote:
I own literally nothing. It is all in living and family trusts.

Steve

Just out of curiosity, and if you are willing to say, why would you
arrange your affairs that way?


I have the same setup. In my case, it was to ensure that all my estate
would go without probate, modification, or garnishing to my disabled son.
Because I'm in the pyro business, risks are high that I might be sued. I'm
not wealthy, so any loss would be a great one to my son's welfare. With the
trust, HE owns everything (well, the trust does), and I own nothing.

In a properly established living trust, the administrator(s) of the trust
(me) have the right to manage, modify, dispose of, or otherwise manipulate
the contents of the trust freely. The construct doesn't interfere with my
life at all, except for the periodic updating of the status of the trust and
its holdings.

LLoyd

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 05:43:36 GMT, Erik wrote:

In article . com,
jboothbee @ gmail.com wrote:

ANYWAY, it's interesting how vehicle theft is actively pursued due to our
penal codes. I suppose it is a carry-over from horse thieving days. Our
vehicles are everything. Other things don't matter.


Here in Ontario Canada, auto theft is low priority. Either you find it
abandoned somewhere within a week, or it is gone fore-ever. If the
cops catch the thief it is an unexpected bonus.

They DO go after chop-shops agressively when they stumble across one.

Gunner Asch writes:

The criteria, in virtually all jurisdictions, is :

"You must have reasonable cause to belive, that your life, or the life
of another is in immediate danger, before you can employ deadly force"

I assure you, as someone who has drawn several times, and on one occasion
fired, in self-defense, it is far, far more complicated than that.

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh writes:

In a properly established living trust, the administrator(s) of the
trust (me) have the right to manage, modify, dispose of, or otherwise
manipulate the contents of the trust freely. The construct doesn't
interfere with my life at all, except for the periodic updating of the
status of the trust and its holdings.

And it is no shield against liability. What lawyer told you that? Or did
you do this yourself?

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 12:28:46 -0500, Richard J Kinch wrote:
Gunner Asch writes:

The criteria, in virtually all jurisdictions, is :

"You must have reasonable cause to belive, that your life, or the life
of another is in immediate danger, before you can employ deadly force"

I assure you, as someone who has drawn several times, and on one occasion
fired, in self-defense, it is far, far more complicated than that.

As with so many other things, specific interpretations vary by state.

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
.. .
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh writes:

In a properly established living trust, the administrator(s) of the
trust (me) have the right to manage, modify, dispose of, or otherwise
manipulate the contents of the trust freely. The construct doesn't
interfere with my life at all, except for the periodic updating of the
status of the trust and its holdings.

And it is no shield against liability. What lawyer told you that? Or did
you do this yourself?

A reputable estate attorney here in Florida set it up. It truly is no
shield against liability for me or my income stream, and any property owned
by the trust might be forfeit if I couldn't make the payments (like our
home). But the property owned outright by my son (his trust) is not subject
to attachment if I were found liable.

It doesn't protect me at all, but it protects his _current_ estate, at any
particular moment you drive the tack into the ledger.

LLoyd

"Spehro Pefhany" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:40:02 -0700, the renowned "SteveB"
wrote:

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 02:20:44 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:


If you shoot, you must kill or face likely civil suit that could ruin
you financially for life.

I own literally nothing. It is all in living and family trusts.

Steve

Just out of curiosity, and if you are willing to say, why would you
arrange your affairs that way?



Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

To protect the whole thing from liability. I also am incorporated, and have
a LLC and an LLP. My financial advisor, attorney, and tax guy have
channelled me this way all along. It helps in many ways; tax breaks,
deductions, writeoffs, leases, equipment rentals, just about everything goes
through one of the shells, and is taken as a benefit. Everything is
channelled to the best shell for profitability and tax relief.

Income is deferred in most cases, allowing the principle and interest to
compound and recompound, as I don't take the money out, just let it ride.
When I want to buy something, I go get it in the name of one of the shells.
Two thirds of my properties are income producing, so they are essentially
paying for all my monthly living expenses, and the rest of the income is
rolled into short term first deeds of trust, and other investments that
return up to 3% per month.

I am no financial whiz. I have never balanced a check book in my life.
What I do have is three professionals, two of them pals from high school
days, that I pay to handle my affairs. I just went and worked my butt off
for the money to get it started, and turned it over to them. So far, knock
on wood, they have been honest, and things are good. The whole lot is so
diversified that if someone would be dishonest, they could not mess up more
than ten percent.

When I die, the whole thing stays in the family, but it mostly will go to my
grandchildren, as their parents are financially secure.

Steve

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 10:47:13 +0100, Mark Rand
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 21:15:46 -0700, "SteveB" wrote:


"Rudy" wrote in message
news:ceqXe.514904$s54.352232@pd7tw2no...
When I am done, I am going to put in some booby traps

Speaking of booby traps..
I read this in a book recently.. I loved it:

Take a cheap Saturday nite special, take one round for it and pull out the
bullet from the shell and dump out the powder.
Replace it with C4 and push the bullet back in and reload..just the one
round
When the dirtbag that steals it tries it out...BOOM !

You get to track him by the blood trail from the 'stump'

Two problems, Rudy.

Where are you going to get the C4?

A primer does not have the ability to detonate C4.

I think you need to get your money back on that book.

Steve



Presumably very sweaty dynamite would work ok and be easier to acquire,
Gunner?


Actually..Steve is wrong. A primer DOES have the ability to detonate
c4 , RDX and others. We salted caches all over southeast Asia with
such doctored rounds. I actually saw the results of such a round being
fired. Not pretty, not pretty at all.

Gunner

Mark Rand
RTFM

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On 19 Sep 2005 05:28:22 -0700, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Gunner Asch says...

Reasonable, meaning it will pass the Reasonable Man test, which is
basicly what the jury will decide was reasonable.

This is "beyond a reasonable doubt" which is the standard in a
*criminal* trial. Remember though for a civil trial it is
'preponderance of the evidence" which is much less strict
standard.

Welllll..not really Jim. Reasonable Doubt is somewhat different than
the Reasonable Man criteria.

Hence the desire to avoid the chance for a civil trial.

This is what my wife explains as "if you hit a pedestrian, it is
sometimes better to back up and do it again."

Jim
Indeed

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 05:56:44 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 20:15:03 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
"SteveB" quickly quoth:

"Don Bruder" wrote

Absolutely true in the society we're living in today... Shoot 'em, but
make sure the body falls inside - Also, make sure to empty your weaopn
and claim that fear for your life made you just keep squeezing the
trigger over and over in a panic until the gun didn't do anything but go
click click click.

The old "They just kept coming at me." ploy, eh, Don? Just make sure
there isn't anything in your bloodstream they could use against you.


This is too weird. Today, I got my CCW in the mail. Yah, the one I went to
school for on 4/6/05, and it was supposed to take 90 days to get. Ya, that
one.

Mine took just over two weeks. /neener

My last renewal took 15 minutes of range time, and 20 minutes at the
SO getting the fee paid and the paperwork typed up. G And this in
California.


Although it has nothing to do with private property, I did carry my pistol
legally on a bank run today.

And, might I say, with a bit of attitude.

Yeah..... go ahead ..... make my day.

Please.

That's probably not the best attitude to have, Steve. You might want
to rethink that since you really don't ever want to -need- to use the
pistola on anyone. But we have them now for the day all Hell breaks
loose.

Indeed. Remove all thoughts of Rambo from your skull. And keep in
mind that that CCW is there as a last resort. Period. End program.
Full stop.

Walk softly, keep your mouth shut, be respectful, and never lose sight
of the fact someone can simply walk up behind you and crush your skull
with a brick.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:38:21 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote

The ego thing will go away shortly. Pretty soon it will be like
wearing a watch.

Gunner



I have been carrying for ten years. They are bothersome, uncomfortable, and
you really have to watch it so you don't drop it or expose it. I just let
it lapse, and therefore, my right to carry was interrupted.

STeve

Ok...G Just saw a bit of Newbie in the apparently tounge and cheek
comment. Disregard

Gunner, 27 yrs of daily carry

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

In article GQmXe.81076$DW1.43608@fed1read06,
"SteveB" wrote:

[...]

When I am done, I am going to put in some booby traps that will bring blood
and break bones. Anyone out there that ain't supposed to be there will just
have to cope.

Steve

Due to the lawsuit thing, make sure your booby traps are installed
with a heap of plausible deniability. Like a high shelf with a bunch of
scrap iron on it, and a support pole that's not secured terribly well to
the floor. Drop a broom on the floor between it and the door, and
ta-da! Booby trap complete with plausible deniability. Add a bit of
yellow tape to the pole if you want. Maybe lay an extension cord just
so that it happens to work like a trip line.
"Oh, I'm sorry officer, but I didn't expect people to be prowling
around in my shop! I'll clean up so it doesn't happen again." Then set
it back up the same way with slightly more yellow tape.
You could get one of those motion detector driveway lights, but
instead of lights, hook up really loud sirens. Position them so the
thief would need to be a fair way into an enclosed area before setting
them off. Maybe rig up a fat solenoid to kick the door shut when it
goes off, to harass the dude that much more. Add some really bright
strobes and it'll be a party in your shop.

--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail dot net
movies.crooksandliars.com/Countdown-Timeline-Katrina.mov

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 12:28:46 -0500, Richard J Kinch
wrote:

Gunner Asch writes:

The criteria, in virtually all jurisdictions, is :

"You must have reasonable cause to belive, that your life, or the life
of another is in immediate danger, before you can employ deadly force"

I assure you, as someone who has drawn several times, and on one occasion
fired, in self-defense, it is far, far more complicated than that.

This is the rough and ready criteria that is the basis in most
jurisdictions. It is indeed complicated in some places, and less so in
others. The aftermath, can be very complicated in some places,
virtually none in others, legally. Mentally..a wholenuther story.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On 19 Sep 2005 17:33:56 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 12:28:46 -0500, Richard J Kinch wrote:
Gunner Asch writes:

The criteria, in virtually all jurisdictions, is :

"You must have reasonable cause to belive, that your life, or the life
of another is in immediate danger, before you can employ deadly force"

I assure you, as someone who has drawn several times, and on one occasion
fired, in self-defense, it is far, far more complicated than that.

As with so many other things, specific interpretations vary by state.


Indeed. Some states (and locals) require you to retreat. Others say
you may be agressive, others reactive.

But the statement still stands across most of the US, both for
civilians and police officers. Though..cops tend to whitewash their
ignoring of this criteria.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Abrasha wrote:

Don Bruder wrote:


In some jurisdictions, simply placing the booby-traps in the first
place is a criminal offense that gets handled on a par with attempted
murder. In other jurisdictions, even IMPLYING that you've placed
booby-traps, whether you have actually done so or not, will get you
at least hassled by the LEOs, if not actually arrested.


That's exactly what happened to a jeweler here in San Francisco, that
I used to do trade work for many years ago. She used to have a large
boa constrictor crawling around on the floor of her shop at night,
with a sign in the window advising prospective visitors of that fact.

Boa constrictors are of course harmless to humans, since even large
ones are not interested in eating us or capable of harming us. So she
was in fact only implying that harm would come to a potential burglar.

Not true. A full-size adult was killed by his pet boa constrictor (yes,
the snake was HUGE) about 15 years ago, here in the St. Louis area.
Certainly rare, but it can happen. The guy was trying to cut the snake
with a pocket knife when he must have run out of air.

Jon

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 13:33:57 -0700, jk wrote:
"SteveB" wrote:


I have the belief that the car should be arrested. If ANYONE flees from a
PO in a car, they just get the license number. They don't have to go
through the dangerous chase scenario. They do not have to identify the
driver, as the car committed the crime.

Not in the slightest. THe guy steals a car, runs from the PO in it,
abandons it after he escapes. THe owner gets the car back and then
faces a big fine TOO.. Are you NUTS????????

I'm pretty sure he's being sarcastic - obviously, just like in crimes
with guns, the machine didn't do the crime, the person did.

If he's actually serious, I guess we just saw inside the mind of someone
who blames hardware rather than people, for the acts of people.

"SteveB" wrote:


I have the belief that the car should be arrested. If ANYONE flees from a
PO in a car, they just get the license number. They don't have to go
through the dangerous chase scenario. They do not have to identify the
driver, as the car committed the crime. Then, when the car is stopped
again, or the plate is run, it goes to car jail, and it costs the owner a
hefty sum to get it back. Or, DMV sends them a notice of cancellation of
registration.

It may be simplistic, but wouldn't it work?


Not in the slightest. THe guy steals a car, runs from the PO in it,
abandons it after he escapes. THe owner gets the car back and then
faces a big fine TOO.. Are you NUTS????????

jk

"jk" wrote in message
...
"SteveB" wrote:


I have the belief that the car should be arrested. If ANYONE flees from a
PO in a car, they just get the license number. They don't have to go
through the dangerous chase scenario. They do not have to identify the
driver, as the car committed the crime. Then, when the car is stopped
again, or the plate is run, it goes to car jail, and it costs the owner a
hefty sum to get it back. Or, DMV sends them a notice of cancellation of
registration.

It may be simplistic, but wouldn't it work?


Not in the slightest. THe guy steals a car, runs from the PO in it,
abandons it after he escapes. THe owner gets the car back and then
faces a big fine TOO.. Are you NUTS????????

jk

Worse yet, could you imagine the insurance rates?

Chris

Dave Hinz wrote:
On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 12:28:46 -0500, Richard J Kinch wrote:

Gunner Asch writes:


The criteria, in virtually all jurisdictions, is :

"You must have reasonable cause to belive, that your life, or the life
of another is in immediate danger, before you can employ deadly force"

I assure you, as someone who has drawn several times, and on one occasion
fired, in self-defense, it is far, far more complicated than that.


As with so many other things, specific interpretations vary by state.

Yes, the basic idea is correct.
CCW classes in GA a while back made it very clear ( in GA ) that "you"
must be in fear for your life' or another to use deadly force.
I now live in Florida and the Castle doctrine was just passed here, we
do not have to retreat ( like in MA ) , IE: you break down my door and
its dead perp time. Period !!
If memory serves I think it was in Louisiana they passed a similar law
about car jacking, you could defend you car/life instead of giving up
your car to a perp.
Aye
Marc
YMMV

"Marc" wrote in message
news:ByFXe.1756$Az1.1447@trnddc07...
Dave Hinz wrote:
On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 12:28:46 -0500, Richard J Kinch
wrote:

Gunner Asch writes:


The criteria, in virtually all jurisdictions, is :

"You must have reasonable cause to belive, that your life, or the life
of another is in immediate danger, before you can employ deadly force"

I assure you, as someone who has drawn several times, and on one
occasion fired, in self-defense, it is far, far more complicated than
that.


As with so many other things, specific interpretations vary by state.

Yes, the basic idea is correct.
CCW classes in GA a while back made it very clear ( in GA ) that "you"
must be in fear for your life' or another to use deadly force.
I now live in Florida and the Castle doctrine was just passed here, we do
not have to retreat ( like in MA ) , IE: you break down my door and its
dead perp time. Period !!
If memory serves I think it was in Louisiana they passed a similar law
about car jacking, you could defend you car/life instead of giving up your
car to a perp.
Aye
Marc
YMMV

Great, now we have to retreat in MA..... ???? I cannot keep up with this
junk. This is after I just learned the only way to get a permit is to say
it is for target practice. Say it is for protection and you are denied.

Chris

Chris wrote:
"Marc" wrote in message
news:ByFXe.1756$Az1.1447@trnddc07...

Dave Hinz wrote:

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 12:28:46 -0500, Richard J Kinch
wrote:


Gunner Asch writes:



The criteria, in virtually all jurisdictions, is :

"You must have reasonable cause to belive, that your life, or the life
of another is in immediate danger, before you can employ deadly force"

I assure you, as someone who has drawn several times, and on one
occasion fired, in self-defense, it is far, far more complicated than
that.


As with so many other things, specific interpretations vary by state.

Yes, the basic idea is correct.
CCW classes in GA a while back made it very clear ( in GA ) that "you"
must be in fear for your life' or another to use deadly force.
I now live in Florida and the Castle doctrine was just passed here, we do
not have to retreat ( like in MA ) , IE: you break down my door and its
dead perp time. Period !!
If memory serves I think it was in Louisiana they passed a similar law
about car jacking, you could defend you car/life instead of giving up your
car to a perp.
Aye
Marc
YMMV


Great, now we have to retreat in MA..... ???? I cannot keep up with this
junk. This is after I just learned the only way to get a permit is to say
it is for target practice. Say it is for protection and you are denied.

Chris


That is Mass... never lived there and cant spell it either.
Think "Ted Kennedy" there ya go liberal booze hound state.

"Gunner Asch" wrote

Actually..Steve is wrong. A primer DOES have the ability to detonate
c4 , RDX and others. We salted caches all over southeast Asia with
such doctored rounds. I actually saw the results of such a round being
fired. Not pretty, not pretty at all.

Gunner

I stand corrected. From what I recall of basic explosives training during
diving school, and actual field explosive work, I would not have thought
that a primer could reach the detonation velocity of C4.

Steve

"Marc" wrote in message
newsNFXe.1759$Az1.1526@trnddc07...
Chris wrote:
"Marc" wrote in message
news:ByFXe.1756$Az1.1447@trnddc07...

Dave Hinz wrote:

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 12:28:46 -0500, Richard J Kinch
wrote:


Gunner Asch writes:



The criteria, in virtually all jurisdictions, is :

"You must have reasonable cause to belive, that your life, or the life
of another is in immediate danger, before you can employ deadly force"

I assure you, as someone who has drawn several times, and on one
occasion fired, in self-defense, it is far, far more complicated than
that.


As with so many other things, specific interpretations vary by state.

Yes, the basic idea is correct.
CCW classes in GA a while back made it very clear ( in GA ) that "you"
must be in fear for your life' or another to use deadly force.
I now live in Florida and the Castle doctrine was just passed here, we do
not have to retreat ( like in MA ) , IE: you break down my door and its
dead perp time. Period !!
If memory serves I think it was in Louisiana they passed a similar law
about car jacking, you could defend you car/life instead of giving up
your car to a perp.
Aye
Marc
YMMV


Great, now we have to retreat in MA..... ???? I cannot keep up with this
junk. This is after I just learned the only way to get a permit is to
say it is for target practice. Say it is for protection and you are
denied.

Chris
That is Mass... never lived there and cant spell it either.
Think "Ted Kennedy" there ya go liberal booze hound state.

Wonder if I will have to move up to NH to start the .50 cal kit project?

Chris

"B.B." u wrote


Due to the lawsuit thing, make sure your booby traps are installed
with a heap of plausible deniability. Like a high shelf with a bunch of
scrap iron on it, and a support pole that's not secured terribly well to
the floor. Maybe lay an extension cord just
so that it happens to work like a trip line.


This is scary. Have you ever been to my "Sanford Yard"?

You have described it very well.

Steve ,g