On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 21:06:26 -0600, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


I had some eighth graders who were running out the clock until they
could get working papers.

?????? What has this senile **** got to do with ahr?

On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 12:22:29 +1000, %%, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 16:45:17 +1000, %%lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
Sqwertz to Rodent Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID:

On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 21:13:18 -0600, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


I had a plant maintenance guy who was illiterate. I got a hint when he
hung an electrical panel upside down

Oh, no! Not yet more senile blather! tsk

On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 16:52:05 +1000, %%, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
"Who or What is Rod Speed?

Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 17:36:39 +1000, %%, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
about senile Rot Speed:
"This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage."
MID:

On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 17:22:31 +1000, %%, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
pamela about Rodent Speed:
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MID:

On 2020-08-11 00:36, %% wrote:


"T" wrote in message ...

And he most probably does not have the time or energy to dick around
trying to find who the exceptions are.

But requiring that they finish high school proves nothing employability
wise.

It proves they are willing to complete something annoying

On Monday, August 10, 2020 at 8:57:06 PM UTC-4, %% wrote:

I like those who have enough of a clue to work
out whether the last couple of years of high
school will be any use to them and who choose
to leave school as soon they can legally, or even
before that and get on with their useful lives.

Isn't the last couple of years of high school the time when
they teach American Government (if they still teach that)?

That could go a long way to explain why people do so poorly
when asked difficult questions like "How many branches of
government are there?"

Cindy Hamilton

On 8/11/2020 12:31 AM, rbowman wrote:
On 08/10/2020 09:28 PM, Snag wrote:
Â* I've never run into a rattler here but have friends that have . Got
lots of copperheads and some water moccasins though .


They got plenty over east. The range in Great Falls has the usual
firearms safety posters plus one reminding you to watch out for
rattlesnakes when you go to check your targets.

Â* Got a call from a neighbor early this evening asking if I'd heard the
coyotes raising a ruckus around 6 this morning . He thought it sounded
like it was very near our house ... but I didn't hear anything , and
neither did Max . And he'd damn sure let us know if he heard anything .

They were yelping here last night. A cat I've been feeding didn't show
up for breakfast and I thought it might have been coyote bait but it was
waiting for me when I got home from work.

The thing I like about cats is they're aloof but this is the neediest
damn cat I ever ran into.



Shortly after we got Max a small gray kitty showed up on our doorstep
.. After she'd been around a couple of days we started feeding her .
She's happy with a little food twice a day and the occasional head rub .
Pretty good hunter too , she takes care of any small mammal that comes
around .
--
Snag

On 8/8/2020 11:49 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 8 Aug 2020 22:04:18 -0600, rbowman wrote:

On 08/08/2020 08:43 PM, wrote:
Stabbing was the thing in those days. A guy might have a .22 or .25
Saturday Night Special but it wasn't double stack Glocks.

It's that damn Austrian engineering. When you squeezed the trigger on
your Jennings .25 it was never clear which end on the exchange would
come off worse.

Glock had another effect. When the cops fell in love with Glocks the old
.38 revolvers got surplused. More than one of those wound up on the street.

I don't think I have ever heard of a gangsta with a wheel gun. They
want as many shots as they can get., It is easier than learning how to
aim ... but cops have the same problem these days. That is why you
have shootouts with 40 or 50 shots being fired and few hits other than
bystanders.
I have a Jennings 9 someone pretty much gave me but it is a POS. If I
still had the range in my basement I probably could tune it up but I
am not sure why I would.


Probably because it's crap . I got a Jennings .380 in trade several
years ago . Sold it to the first fool that made me a reasonable offer .
I didn't like the way the action is designed . I'm not comfortable with
a firearm that has to be carried cocked and locked if you want to carry
with one in the chamber .
--
Snag

On 8/10/2020 8:50 PM, %% wrote:


But there are still plenty who dont need what
is taught in the last couple of years of high
school for the sort of work that plenty still
do and do until they choose to retire.

OK, you are right.Â* Every 15 year old knows what he needs and does
not need to be a success in life.

Some do have enough of a clue to have noticed that
no one they know adult wise uses any of what is taught
in the last couple of years of high school, particularly
with those I listed, or has an adult point that out to them.

If you drop out of high school it is usually because you don't have
the mental fortitude to stick with anything but you will be a
success on YouTube.

Usually is irrelevant to what is true of some that dont
complete high school. In fact it may well be that those
with enough of a clue to have noticed that what is taught
in the last couple of years of high school are likely to be
a more useful employee than those who can't work that out.

My experience differs from your.

Yours isnt experience, its mindless one eyed bigotry.

Fine, my bigotry has served well compared to yours.

You dont know that either.

I like people with character and fortitude

I like those who have enough of a clue to work
out whether the last couple of years of high
school will be any use to them and who choose
to leave school as soon they can legally, or even
before that and get on with their useful lives.

and pay them fairly.Â* Dropouts

Someone who has enough of a clue to work
out whether the last couple of years of high
school will be any use to them and who chooses
to leave school as soon they can legally, or even
before that and get on with their useful lives isnt a
dropout. Neither is someone who starts at uni and
works out that that isnt for them and leaves instead
of wasting their time completing the degree either.

have proved to be dropouts and don't show up, come in late, don't
follow simple instructions as well as their graduated peers.

Thats hasnt been proven, it is justÂ* your prejudice.

It is my experience that they don't work out. I'm not wasting my time
on them I tried, it did not end well. Most are just lazy.

Exceptions? Maybe one in a hundred but I'm not going to pass through 99
to find that one.

On 8/11/2020 3:36 AM, %% wrote:


Oh ya, I can point out some exceptions too, but they are exceptions.

Thats far from clear with completing high school.

Sorry, but Bowman knows what he is doing.

No Ed doesnt.

And he most probably does not have the time or energy to dick around
trying to find who the exceptions are.

But requiring that they finish high school proves nothing employability
wise.

Yeah, it has been proven time and again, thus the reason I don't hire
dropouts. I'd agree with you in 1930 when my father quit school after
8th grade. This is 2020 and education is easy to get.

On 8/10/2020 11:16 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 08/10/2020 12:19 PM, %% wrote:
Some do have enough of a clue to have noticed that
no one they know adult wise uses any of what is taught
in the last couple of years of high school, particularly
with those I listed, or has an adult point that out to them.

I graduated high school at 16 and didn't have a clue what i wanted to
do. I may have been better off had i worked a few years but that wasn't
in the plan; off to college you go. Four more years and I still was
pretty clueless.



Graduated at 17. Sort of knew what I wanted, took an entry level job
and went to night school. Path changed a bit over the years but was
always manufacturing related.

On 08/11/2020 01:17 AM, T wrote:
What my degree(s) proves is that I am willing to take on
a long term project that involves considerable personal
hardship (skool sucks) and see it though to the end.
That is exactly what Bowman is looking for.

Oh ya, I can point out some exceptions too, but
they are exceptions. Sorry, but Bowman knows
what he is doing. And he most probably does not
have the time or energy to dick around trying to find
who the exceptions are.

It's a slightly different situation but several of the programmers I've
hired dropped out of college. I did the same thing in graduate school.
I'd been working for several years and was going nights but I realized
what was being taught had nothing to do with what I was doing days. I've
had better luck with short seminars that related to what I was doing
than a formal education program.

Even when I interview people that have graduated from the local diploma
mill with a CS degree I feel like they should demand their money back.

On 8/11/2020 2:58 AM, %% wrote:


"rbowman" wrote in message
...
On 08/10/2020 12:19 PM, %% wrote:
Some do have enough of a clue to have noticed that
no one they know adult wise uses any of what is taught
in the last couple of years of high school, particularly
with those I listed, or has an adult point that out to them.

I graduated high school at 16 and didn't have a clue what i wanted to do.

Yes, but plenty of others do know that they do
want to do various things like be a mechanic,
plumber, electrician, build houses etc too.

I may have been better off had i worked a few years but that wasn't
in the plan; off to college you go. Four more years and I still was
pretty clueless.

Someone else in another group was monstered into
starting college and then decided that is wasnt for
him and is one of best electricians around and very
reliable worker who can do anything required.

We agree on something. College is over rated if you want the trades and
are good at it.

The dropouts I see do NOT know what they want to do but just want a job
and don't stick with it. They have no skills and are too lazy to get some.

On 8/10/2020 11:18 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 08/10/2020 05:15 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 8/10/2020 2:19 PM, %% wrote:


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
news On 8/9/2020 11:52 PM, %% wrote:


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 8/9/2020 3:26 PM, %% wrote:


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 8/8/2020 6:07 PM, Snag wrote:

Â*Â* Jump down from that soapbox Boob F . We lived in a mostly
black neighborhood , our kids went to school with black kids and
my wife taught in a mostly black school in the Arkansas Delta
region . The one recurrent theme we found was that most black
kids don't do well in school . Not from lack of talent or
intelligence , but because of PEER PRESSURE . Those black people
that gave so much to give these children a chance to succeed
must be spinning in their graves at the way these kids have
thrown away all that they worked and sacrificed for .

Snag, you really hit it there.Â* That is ne loop that has to be
broken. Too many are not qualified to do a job if one is available.

We had need for some very low skilled workersÂ* I'd never hire
anyone that did not graduate high school.Â* I found out that if
you did not have enough moxie to get through 12 years of school,
you were not going to do well in the workplace either.

Can't agree with that. Mate of mine who I have known since he was
a school
kid is one of those people who arent academic at all. His dad died
when he
was at the bottom of high school and his mother was a school
teacher. He
decided to drop out of school a full year before that was even
legal.

He ended up doing fine, doing the major media golf events and
stuff like that.

So you know of one.Â* I know of at least a dozen that did not make
it and wasted time hiring and training.

Of course no high school graduate ever did that.

I know of plenty that have.

There is no excuse in the past few decades not to finish school.

It isn't an excuse, its a fact that plenty have enough
of a clue to work out that what is taught in the last
few years of high school will be no use in the sort
of work that they will choose to do, most obviously
with those who are self employed, who chose to
work in trades and in retail.

It is not 1940 any more where you quit to help the family after 8th
grade.

But there are still plenty who dont need what
is taught in the last couple of years of high
school for the sort of work that plenty still
do and do until they choose to retire.

OK, you are right.Â* Every 15 year old knows what he needs and does
not need to be a success in life.

Some do have enough of a clue to have noticed that
no one they know adult wise uses any of what is taught
in the last couple of years of high school, particularly
with those I listed, or has an adult point that out to them.

If you drop out of high school it is usually because you don't have
the mental fortitude to stick with anything but you will be a success
on YouTube.

Usually is irrelevant to what is true of some that dont
complete high school. In fact it may well be that those
with enough of a clue to have noticed that what is taught
in the last couple of years of high school are likely to be
a more useful employee than those who can't work that out.

My experience differs from your.

Yours isnt experience, its mindless one eyed bigotry.

Fine, my bigotry has served well compared to yours.Â* I like people with
character and fortitude and pay them fairly.Â* Dropouts have proved to be
dropouts and don't show up, come in late, don't follow simple
instructions as well as their graduated peers.

Never ran into any college educated slackers?

They exist but not to the degree of the dropouts. I had a couple of
college grads working for me in jobs that do not require a degree.

On 08/11/2020 01:36 AM, %% wrote:
Quite a bit of what I was taught in high school
was useful but I do have two uni degrees.

Not much of the research MSc has been much
use but it did get me into computers back when
it wasnt possible to have your own computer.

The first two years of college has served me well. It was a background
in physics, chemistry, and math without the specialization of the second
two years. I thought punching cards to run FORTRAN IV programs on a
360/30 sucked. I primarily worked with hardware until microprocessors
showed up. Relay logic, TTL logic, it's all logic so jumping to 8080
assembler was no big deal. Obviously that was all on the job training.

That is exactly what Bowman is looking for.

Its actually Ed and he isnt actually looking for that,
anyone who completes high school is all he requires
and with the modern system of everyone who shows
up every day when they arent sick gets to graduate, that
requirement only shows that they will turn up every day.

Thank you for clearing that up. I tend to skip over the formal education
part of a resume and look at what the person has actually done. I'll
take an illiterate guy who can turn his hand to any project in the plant
to a high school graduate that can't put together a kid's swing set.

On 08/11/2020 03:08 AM, T wrote:
On 2020-08-11 00:36, %% wrote:


"T" wrote in message
...

And he most probably does not have the time or energy to dick around
trying to find who the exceptions are.

But requiring that they finish high school proves nothing
employability wise.

It proves they are willing to complete something annoying

It proves they're good little sheep.

On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 08:12:10 -0600, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

what he is doing. And he most probably does not
have the time or energy to dick around trying to find
who the exceptions are.

It's a slightly different situation but several of the programmers I've

And yet more senile blather that is totally off topic to an already totally
off topic thread! ****ing stupid seniles ****ing up Usenet! tsk

On 08/11/2020 01:22 AM, %% wrote:


"%%" wrote in message
...


"rbowman" wrote in message
...
On 08/10/2020 12:36 PM, %% wrote:
Yeah, another mate of mine can't even work out how to
use the most basic 4 function calculator, but is a great
mechanic and does a lot of work land clearing using
****ing great Steiger tractors that are as big as a house.

I had a plant maintenance guy who was illiterate. I got a hint when
he hung an electrical panel upside down despite the 'This Side Up'
sticker.

I sent him to the rental place to pick up a powder actuated tool
(Hilti) for a conduit run we were hanging. He came back without it.
There was a 10 question written test about basic safety and that was
a no go. I went down, filled out the form, came back with the Hilti,
and he proceeded to run conduit. He could even bend conduit with a
Hickey (conduit bender) and have it come out right. I usually wound
up with a mirror image of what I really wanted.

That's a different issue to someone who decides that they
won't be taught anything useful in the last couple of years
of high school and who choose to start working instead.

Sorry, presumably you meant that those who haven't
completed high school can still be useful employees.

Precisely. When I hired people at that level I looked for those that
could get things done. Even now when I'm hiring programmers I'm more
interested in what they've done than if they have a college degree. The
guy who got bored, dropped out, and started building websites for local
businesses is my guy.

On 08/11/2020 12:58 AM, %% wrote:


"rbowman" wrote in message
...
On 08/10/2020 12:19 PM, %% wrote:
Some do have enough of a clue to have noticed that
no one they know adult wise uses any of what is taught
in the last couple of years of high school, particularly
with those I listed, or has an adult point that out to them.

I graduated high school at 16 and didn't have a clue what i wanted to do.

Yes, but plenty of others do know that they do
want to do various things like be a mechanic,
plumber, electrician, build houses etc too.

Actually, I wanted to drive a truck... Many years later I took a break
from software and drove a truck for a few years. I would want to look
forward to forty years of trucking but it was an interesting adventure
and a refreshing break before going back to another 20 years of
programming.

I've always worked on my own cars and bikes, so I know a bit about that
too. At one point I was the plant engineer among other duties so I'm no
stranger to plumbing, electricity, and construction. Again, nothing I'd
want for a lifetime career but interesting enough in the short term.

On Aug 11 2020 at 12:36 a.m. %% wrote:

"T" wrote in message ...

And he most probably does not have the time or energy to dick around
trying to find who the exceptions are.

But requiring that they finish high school proves nothing employability
wise.

Even so, hair texture/color of skin always tops that.

On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 08:43:47 -0600, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

Actually, I wanted to drive a truck...

Thanks for letting as know, blabbermouth!

On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 08:30:09 -0600, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


And he most probably does not have the time or energy to dick around
trying to find who the exceptions are.

But requiring that they finish high school proves nothing
employability wise.

It proves they are willing to complete something annoying

It proves they're good little sheep.

WHO? What off topic bull**** is this about again?

On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 08:29:13 -0600, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


The first two years of college has served me well.

Oh, no!!! Is there NO off topic **** you will NOT gladly blather about,
senile gossip?

On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 08:35:20 -0600, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


Sorry, presumably you meant that those who haven't
completed high school can still be useful employees.

Precisely. When I hired people at that level I looked for those that
could get things done. Even now when I'm hiring programmers I'm more
interested in what they've done than if they have a college degree. The
guy who got bored, dropped out, and started building websites for local
businesses is my guy.

Is he, you lonely online blabbermouth? LOL

On 8/11/2020 10:48 AM, wrote:
On Aug 11 2020 at 12:36 a.m. %% wrote:
"T" wrote in message ...
And he most probably does not have the time or energy to dick around
trying to find who the exceptions are.
But requiring that they finish high school proves nothing employability
wise.
Even so, hair texture/color of skin always tops that.


Often true! If a company is looking for a STEM grad, they tend to look for a person from India or Japan.Â* Maybe US snowflakes will need to study harder?

On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 08:12:10 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

On 08/11/2020 01:17 AM, T wrote:
What my degree(s) proves is that I am willing to take on
a long term project that involves considerable personal
hardship (skool sucks) and see it though to the end.
That is exactly what Bowman is looking for.

Oh ya, I can point out some exceptions too, but
they are exceptions. Sorry, but Bowman knows
what he is doing. And he most probably does not
have the time or energy to dick around trying to find
who the exceptions are.

It's a slightly different situation but several of the programmers I've
hired dropped out of college. I did the same thing in graduate school.
I'd been working for several years and was going nights but I realized
what was being taught had nothing to do with what I was doing days. I've
had better luck with short seminars that related to what I was doing
than a formal education program.

Even when I interview people that have graduated from the local diploma
mill with a CS degree I feel like they should demand their money back.


One of the colleges in Maryland was a customer of mine and their
computer science program seemed to be lagging the industry by about
10-15 years. I can see why someone would drop out. Bill gates dropped
out of Harvard. That is not the same as an inner city kid dropping out
of high school.

On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 17:36:39 +1000, "%%" wrote:



"T" wrote in message ...
On 2020-08-10 23:52, %% wrote:


"rbowman" wrote in message
...
On 08/10/2020 12:36 PM, %% wrote:
Yeah, another mate of mine can't even work out how to
use the most basic 4 function calculator, but is a great
mechanic and does a lot of work land clearing using
****ing great Steiger tractors that are as big as a house.

I had a plant maintenance guy who was illiterate. I got a hint when he
hung an electrical panel upside down despite the 'This Side Up' sticker.

I sent him to the rental place to pick up a powder actuated tool (Hilti)
for a conduit run we were hanging. He came back without it. There was a
10 question written test about basic safety and that was a no go. I went
down, filled out the form, came back with the Hilti, and he proceeded to
run conduit. He could even bend conduit with a Hickey (conduit bender)
and have it come out right. I usually wound up with a mirror image of
what I really wanted.

That's a different issue to someone who decides that they
won't be taught anything useful in the last couple of years
of high school and who choose to start working instead.

I was not taught a whole lot of useful things in either Hi Skool or
University either. Some though.

Quite a bit of what I was taught in high school
was useful but I do have two uni degrees.

Not much of the research MSc has been much
use but it did get me into computers back when
it wasn’t possible to have your own computer.

What my degree(s) proves is that I am willing to take on
a long term project that involves considerable personal
hardship (skool sucks) and see it though to the end.

But it makes no sense to only employ those with
degrees when you need an electrician, plumber,
hair dresser, cook, manager, mechanic, builder etc.

That is exactly what Bowman is looking for.

Its actually Ed and he isnt actually looking for that,
anyone who completes high school is all he requires
and with the modern system of everyone who shows
up every day when they arent sick gets to graduate, that
requirement only shows that they will turn up every day.

I've been talking to a few concrete contractors recently and they tell me
their number one crew issue is finding people who will show up every day.
They all want to get paid, in cash, at the end of each day, which is kind
of a disincentive to keep showing up. Once the cash runs out, they want to
work again.

The second issue is people who say they want to work, but they don't drive
for whatever reason. No car, no license, etc., so someone has to swing by
and pick them up.

The third issue they mentioned was people who aren't curious and don't ask
questions. They'll do what they're told, but they don't ask why and they
don't try to understand the reasons for doing things a certain way, let
alone trying to find better ways. They just do as their told, with varying
degrees of success.

As for the current discussion, I come down on the side of stay in school.
Get a college degree, if possible. Someone with a HS diploma and a college
degree tends to be much better prepared for life's challenges. There are
exceptions, but they're exceptions.

On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 08:43:47 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

On 08/11/2020 12:58 AM, %% wrote:


"rbowman" wrote in message
...
On 08/10/2020 12:19 PM, %% wrote:
Some do have enough of a clue to have noticed that
no one they know adult wise uses any of what is taught
in the last couple of years of high school, particularly
with those I listed, or has an adult point that out to them.

I graduated high school at 16 and didn't have a clue what i wanted to do.

Yes, but plenty of others do know that they do
want to do various things like be a mechanic,
plumber, electrician, build houses etc too.

Actually, I wanted to drive a truck... Many years later I took a break
from software and drove a truck for a few years. I would want to look
forward to forty years of trucking but it was an interesting adventure
and a refreshing break before going back to another 20 years of
programming.

I've always worked on my own cars and bikes, so I know a bit about that
too. At one point I was the plant engineer among other duties so I'm no
stranger to plumbing, electricity, and construction. Again, nothing I'd
want for a lifetime career but interesting enough in the short term.

A few months convinced me driving a truck was not going to be a career
for me. It did get me my first car and get me back in school (a jr
college type place specializing in electronics with credits that
transferred to UMD). When I got there I found several guys who said
they were just ponying up for the Navy electronics test so they could
get a navy school. I aced that test and got to call my shot at the
recruiter. 13 months later I was working for IBM.

On Tuesday, August 11, 2020 at 11:59:14 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 08:12:10 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

On 08/11/2020 01:17 AM, T wrote:
What my degree(s) proves is that I am willing to take on
a long term project that involves considerable personal
hardship (skool sucks) and see it though to the end.
That is exactly what Bowman is looking for.

Oh ya, I can point out some exceptions too, but
they are exceptions. Sorry, but Bowman knows
what he is doing. And he most probably does not
have the time or energy to dick around trying to find
who the exceptions are.

It's a slightly different situation but several of the programmers I've
hired dropped out of college. I did the same thing in graduate school.
I'd been working for several years and was going nights but I realized
what was being taught had nothing to do with what I was doing days. I've
had better luck with short seminars that related to what I was doing
than a formal education program.

Even when I interview people that have graduated from the local diploma
mill with a CS degree I feel like they should demand their money back.


One of the colleges in Maryland was a customer of mine and their
computer science program seemed to be lagging the industry by about
10-15 years.

You remind me of my fellow students. One took a networking class and
expected to be shown how to hook up routers and stuff. Imagine his
disappointment when all they talked about was packets, collisions, etc.
I told him he was getting an education in Computer Science, not training
in IT.

Cindy Hamilton

"T" wrote in message ...
On 2020-08-11 00:36, %% wrote:


"T" wrote in message
...

And he most probably does not have the time or energy to dick around
trying to find who the exceptions are.

But requiring that they finish high school proves nothing employability
wise.

It proves they are willing to complete something annoying

It doesnt prove that either if they treat it as a social event
instead of getting off their arse and working in a real job.

"Cindy Hamilton" wrote in message
...
On Monday, August 10, 2020 at 8:57:06 PM UTC-4, %% wrote:

I like those who have enough of a clue to work
out whether the last couple of years of high
school will be any use to them and who choose
to leave school as soon they can legally, or even
before that and get on with their useful lives.

Isn't the last couple of years of high school the time when
they teach American Government (if they still teach that)?

No idea and I expect that varies around the country. And it
should be taught in the compulsory years of school anyway.

That could go a long way to explain why people
do so poorly when asked difficult questions like
"How many branches of government are there?"

Not something that I need in a useful employee.

On Wed, 12 Aug 2020 03:27:59 +1000, %%, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

03:27 am in Australia??? LOL And you are up and trolling already, you senile
pest?

--
Sqwertz to Rodent Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID:

On Wed, 12 Aug 2020 03:19:19 +1000, %%, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

03:19??? ROTFLOL Is it that time of the night again, senile pest?

--
"Who or What is Rod Speed?

Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 8/11/2020 2:58 AM, %% wrote:


"rbowman" wrote in message
...
On 08/10/2020 12:19 PM, %% wrote:
Some do have enough of a clue to have noticed that
no one they know adult wise uses any of what is taught
in the last couple of years of high school, particularly
with those I listed, or has an adult point that out to them.

I graduated high school at 16 and didn't have a clue what i wanted to
do.

Yes, but plenty of others do know that they do
want to do various things like be a mechanic,
plumber, electrician, build houses etc too.

I may have been better off had i worked a few years but that wasn't in
the plan; off to college you go. Four more years and I still was pretty
clueless.

Someone else in another group was monstered into
starting college and then decided that is wasnt for
him and is one of best electricians around and very
reliable worker who can do anything required.

We agree on something. College is over rated if you want the trades and
are good at it.

The college time wasnt in trades. And what he is good at
is doing what needs to be done, even if that involves doing
stuff he has no experience in at all. Its a mindset thing.

The dropouts I see do NOT know what they want to do but just want a job
and don't stick with it. They have no skills and are too lazy to get
some.

On Tuesday, August 11, 2020 at 1:28:10 PM UTC-4, %% wrote:
"Cindy Hamilton" wrote in message
...
On Monday, August 10, 2020 at 8:57:06 PM UTC-4, %% wrote:

I like those who have enough of a clue to work
out whether the last couple of years of high
school will be any use to them and who choose
to leave school as soon they can legally, or even
before that and get on with their useful lives.

Isn't the last couple of years of high school the time when
they teach American Government (if they still teach that)?

No idea and I expect that varies around the country. And it
should be taught in the compulsory years of school anyway.

That could go a long way to explain why people
do so poorly when asked difficult questions like
"How many branches of government are there?"

Not something that I need in a useful employee.

No, but society needs citizens who aren't complete morons about
the structure and function of the government that they vote for.

High school isn't job training. College isn't job training.

Cindy Hamilton

On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 11:59 a.m., UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 08:12:10 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

On 08/11/2020 01:17 AM, T wrote:
What my degree(s) proves is that I am willing to take on
a long term project that involves considerable personal
hardship (skool sucks) and see it though to the end.
That is exactly what Bowman is looking for.

Oh ya, I can point out some exceptions too, but
they are exceptions. Sorry, but Bowman knows
what he is doing. And he most probably does not
have the time or energy to dick around trying to find
who the exceptions are.

It's a slightly different situation but several of the programmers I've
hired dropped out of college. I did the same thing in graduate school.
I'd been working for several years and was going nights but I realized
what was being taught had nothing to do with what I was doing days. I've
had better luck with short seminars that related to what I was doing
than a formal education program.

Even when I interview people that have graduated from the local diploma
mill with a CS degree I feel like they should demand their money back.

One of the colleges in Maryland was a customer of mine and their
computer science program seemed to be lagging the industry by about
10-15 years.

You're kidding. That's surprising? As far away from the storied Silicon Valley as the east coast is? Like IBM's headquarters ?

"rbowman" wrote in message
...
On 08/11/2020 01:36 AM, %% wrote:
Quite a bit of what I was taught in high school
was useful but I do have two uni degrees.

Not much of the research MSc has been much
use but it did get me into computers back when
it wasnt possible to have your own computer.

The first two years of college has served me well.

They didnt with me.

It was a background in physics, chemistry, and math without the
specialization of the second two years.

I was completely turned off when the fool teaching
pure maths spent the entire lecture proving that
when going between two points on either side of
a line that would cross that line.

I also did chemistry, applied maths and physics.

My research MSc was in physical chemistry and
involved using a PDP8S, the serial one, to measure
fluorescent decay to sub nano second level and
crunching the numbers it produced on an IBM
360/50 that I ran myself at night.

I thought punching cards to run FORTRAN IV programs on a 360/30 sucked.

Yeah, specially when you were lucky to get one run a day.
Thats why I ran it myself at night. Multiple runs were easy.

I primarily worked with hardware until microprocessors showed up. Relay
logic, TTL logic, it's all logic so jumping to 8080 assembler was no big
deal. Obviously that was all on the job training.

No on the job training for me, didnt even do the DEC courses.

My first real job was running the PDP9 and we stole
the design of the PDP9/PDP15 interface to save the
cost of that to interface the mag tape to that. Wire
wrapped TTL in a big draw of wire wrap sockets.
The PDP9 was discrete transistor flip chip modules
and the PDP15 was TTL. With the number crunching
on a CDC 3600 and later 7600.

We dud multitasking version of of the OS for the PDP9
using my idea for the design of that with the same
concept that was later seen with TSX11 for the PDP11

That is exactly what Bowman is looking for.

Its actually Ed and he isnt actually looking for that,
anyone who completes high school is all he requires
and with the modern system of everyone who shows
up every day when they arent sick gets to graduate, that
requirement only shows that they will turn up every day.

Thank you for clearing that up. I tend to skip over the formal education
part of a resume and look at what the person has actually done.

Me too.

I'll take an illiterate guy who can turn his hand to any project in the
plant to a high school graduate that can't put together a kid's swing set.

Me too.