My shower needs replacement. The drip can't be stopped, new washers and seat do nothing, and the stem slips. I've tried the specialty places and they don't even recognize the brand, it seems to be the original 1962 installation. My plan was a new stem and seat but we couldn't find one that would fit.

So probably time to just replace. But that's a job I haven't done.

It is a two handle shower, which I like. I see you can still get those, I thought it was going to have to be a one handle conversion. Is there anything wrong with going back with a two handle? One that will last and be easy to replace parts on, I really would like this to be the last time I do the job.

I am going to have to cut the wall on the other side to get access, and that won't be easy - it's plaster and metal lath, not drywall.

But not having seen the inside of one of these, I'm wondering how hard it will be to get everything connected back up. I'm guessing it is galvanized pipe but I won't know until I get it open.

Or am I going the wrong direction?

On Thu, 1 Dec 2016 05:54:56 -0800 (PST), TimR
wrote:

My shower needs replacement. The drip can't be stopped, new washers and seat do nothing, and the stem slips.
I've tried the specialty places and they don't even recognize the brand, it seems to be the original 1962 installation.
My plan was a new stem and seat but we couldn't find one that would fit.
So probably time to just replace. But that's a job I haven't done.
It is a two handle shower, which I like. I see you can still get those, I thought it was going to have to be a
one handle conversion. Is there anything wrong with going back with a two handle?
One that will last and be easy to replace parts on, I really would like this to be the last time I do the job.
I am going to have to cut the wall on the other side to get access, and that won't be easy - it's plaster and metal lath, not drywall.
But not having seen the inside of one of these, I'm wondering how hard it will be to get everything connected back up.
I'm guessing it is galvanized pipe but I won't know until I get it open.
Or am I going the wrong direction?


just a couple side-points :
: plaster and wall-board from that era sometimes contains asbestos
: I've seen a shower valve casting partly "eaten away" inside -
by ~ 35 - 40 years of well water - preventing new internal parts from
making a seal - perhaps yours is badly corroded inside ?
: I would suspect copper rather than galvanized in 1962
: plan your job & buy stuff after you've opened up the wall for a
look.
You're going in the right direction, when it's the only direction.
:-) John T.

On Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 8:55:03 AM UTC-5, TimR wrote:
My shower needs replacement. The drip can't be stopped, new washers and seat do nothing, and the stem slips. I've tried the specialty places and they don't even recognize the brand, it seems to be the original 1962 installation. My plan was a new stem and seat but we couldn't find one that would fit.

So probably time to just replace. But that's a job I haven't done.

It is a two handle shower, which I like. I see you can still get those, I thought it was going to have to be a one handle conversion. Is there anything wrong with going back with a two handle? One that will last and be easy to replace parts on, I really would like this to be the last time I do the job.

If you want to stick with 2 handles, look for one that has anti-scald.
You may not find them at a home center (I haven't checked) but they are
available. I think Danze carries that style, but I don't have time to check
right now.

Do you have a second shower? My guess is that this isn't going to be a
one-day job. It will probably involve multiple trips to the store, like
many plumbing jobs done by DIY'ers, so a second shower would really be nice..

(I wasn't planning on remodeling the basement bathroom that I use, but when
SWMBO wanted me to do the main bathroom, I knew I had to bring the basement
bathroom up to snuff because it was going to be used for quite a while.)


I am going to have to cut the wall on the other side to get access, and that won't be easy - it's plaster and metal lath, not drywall.

But not having seen the inside of one of these, I'm wondering how hard it will be to get everything connected back up. I'm guessing it is galvanized pipe but I won't know until I get it open.

Or am I going the wrong direction?

On Thu, 1 Dec 2016 05:54:56 -0800 (PST), TimR
wrote:

My shower needs replacement. The drip can't be stopped, new washers and seat do nothing, and the stem slips. I've tried the specialty places and they don't even recognize the brand, it seems to be the original 1962 installation. My plan was a new stem and seat but we couldn't find one that would fit.

So probably time to just replace. But that's a job I haven't done.

It is a two handle shower, which I like. I see you can still get those, I thought it was going to have to be a one handle conversion. Is there anything wrong with going back with a two handle? One that will last and be easy to replace parts on, I really would like this to be the last time I do the job.

I am going to have to cut the wall on the other side to get access, and that won't be easy - it's plaster and metal lath, not drywall.

But not having seen the inside of one of these, I'm wondering how hard it will be to get everything connected back up. I'm guessing it is galvanized pipe but I won't know until I get it open.

Or am I going the wrong direction?

That depends on if going in from the shower wall is an option. Since
you probably want to replace the drains too, opening the other side is
the best option.
The piping should be the same everywhere, unless it's been repiped.
Just measure the new piping carefully and you shouldn't have a
problem. Or get plumber bids after opening the wall. Make sure you
frame an access hatch when closing the wall.

On Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 9:22:55 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 1 Dec 2016 05:54:56 -0800 (PST), TimR
wrote:

My shower needs replacement. The drip can't be stopped, new washers and seat do nothing, and the stem slips.
I've tried the specialty places and they don't even recognize the brand, it seems to be the original 1962 installation.
My plan was a new stem and seat but we couldn't find one that would fit.
So probably time to just replace. But that's a job I haven't done.
It is a two handle shower, which I like. I see you can still get those, I thought it was going to have to be a
one handle conversion. Is there anything wrong with going back with a two handle?
One that will last and be easy to replace parts on, I really would like this to be the last time I do the job.
I am going to have to cut the wall on the other side to get access, and that won't be easy - it's plaster and metal lath, not drywall.
But not having seen the inside of one of these, I'm wondering how hard it will be to get everything connected back up.
I'm guessing it is galvanized pipe but I won't know until I get it open.
Or am I going the wrong direction?


just a couple side-points :
: plaster and wall-board from that era sometimes contains asbestos
: I've seen a shower valve casting partly "eaten away" inside -
by ~ 35 - 40 years of well water - preventing new internal parts from
making a seal - perhaps yours is badly corroded inside ?
: I would suspect copper rather than galvanized in 1962

Whether it's likely copper or galvanized can be determined by what's
in the rest of the bathroom, house, etc where it's visible. He better
hope it's copper. If it's gavlvanized he may be opening up a whole,
bigger can of worms and even if not, even redoing that one part over
to copper can be a major PIA. All depends on where the fittings are
and if you can find an accessible spot to transition. If it comes to
that PEX might be a better choice.

On Thu, 1 Dec 2016 05:54:56 -0800 (PST), TimR
wrote:

My shower needs replacement. The drip can't be stopped, new washers and seat do nothing, and the stem slips. I've tried the specialty places and they don't even recognize the brand, it seems to be the original 1962 installation. My plan was a new stem and seat but we couldn't find one that would fit.

So probably time to just replace. But that's a job I haven't done.

It is a two handle shower, which I like. I see you can still get those, I thought it was going to have to be a one handle conversion. Is there anything wrong with going back with a two handle? One that will last and be easy to replace parts on, I really would like this to be the last time I do the job.

It is probably preferable for you to replace with the same two handle
configuration, that way you can avoid tile repair. However, the
distance between the handle centers is important, so, get out your
tape measure. Typical distances between handle centers are 8" and
10".

Also, is this strictly a shower or is it a shower / tub combo?

I have had excellent experience with valves that utilize ceramic discs
instead of old style washers.



I am going to have to cut the wall on the other side to get access, and that won't be easy - it's plaster and metal lath, not drywall.

Great fun, be sure you cut a generous enough opening to allow for safe
and easy sweating of your connections. Make sure you have a fireproof
welding blanket to protect the inside of your walls and, of course,
have a fire extinguisher handy.

If you aren't comfortable with sweating pipes, you can easily use
sharkbite connectors and pex pipe to plumb the valve. This video will
give you an idea of using that approach.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYfn9DPAlVg


But not having seen the inside of one of these, I'm wondering how hard it will be to get everything connected back up. I'm guessing it is galvanized pipe but I won't know until I get it open.

Or am I going the wrong direction?

Do you have other galvanized water supply pipes in your house?
Considering the vintage, I would think the supply pipes are copper.

On Thu, 01 Dec 2016 15:13:38 +0000, Stormin' Norman
wrote:

Also, is this strictly a shower or is it a shower / tub combo?

Oops, skip the question above, I have never seen a two handle shower /
tub combo, not sure how that would work. Too early, not enough
coffee, excuse, excuse, excuse...... :-)

In ,
TimR typed:
My shower needs replacement. The drip can't be stopped, new washers
and seat do nothing, and the stem slips. I've tried the specialty
places and they don't even recognize the brand, it seems to be the
original 1962 installation. My plan was a new stem and seat but we
couldn't find one that would fit.

So probably time to just replace. But that's a job I haven't done.

It is a two handle shower, which I like. I see you can still get
those, I thought it was going to have to be a one handle conversion.
Is there anything wrong with going back with a two handle? One that
will last and be easy to replace parts on, I really would like this
to be the last time I do the job.

I am going to have to cut the wall on the other side to get access,
and that won't be easy - it's plaster and metal lath, not drywall.

But not having seen the inside of one of these, I'm wondering how
hard it will be to get everything connected back up. I'm guessing it
is galvanized pipe but I won't know until I get it open.

Or am I going the wrong direction?

To TimR from TomR (no relation),

I am getting ready to do almost the same thing fairly soon. You said that
you have a "two handle" shower faucet, but mine is a "3 handle" shower
faucet -- hot, cold, and a diverter handle in the middle.

I tried to find some YouTube videos, but I couldn't find any that show this
type of replacement. They all seem to show how to replace and old 2 or 3
handle shower faucet with a single handle shower faucet. I'll post the
links to two YouTube videos below just to give you some ideas, but they are
not exact videos for what you and I are talking about doing.

In the end, after watching some of the YouTube videos, I may end up
converting my 3 handle shower faucet to a single handle shower faucet.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, you will need to open up the back wall and see
what you have now -- probably copper not iron pipe. And, after you open the
wall, you may want to look at Home Depot or Lowes or wherever for "access
panels". They are inexpensive and you can use them to add an easy access
panel where you made the hole in the wall rather sealing up the hole
permanently.

My 3 handle shower faucet has 1/2-inch copper pipe and fittings. I will
need to cut each of the copper pipes (4 cuts -- hot, cold, line up to the
shower head, and line down to the tub faucet). Then, I will be able to just
pull out the old 3 handle shower faucet fixture.

When I go to solder the new fixture in place, I will probably need some
1/2-inch "slip" couplings (also known as couplings with "no stop"). It
means a copper coupling that slides over the pipe but does not have a "stop"
in the middle on the inside. That way, when there is no room to move the
copper pipes on each side of the fitting (coupling), you can just slide the
coupling all the way on to one pipe, put the pipes together, then slide the
coupling back so that half of it covers one pipe and the other half covers
the other pipe -- then solder.

Here are the YouTube videos that I mentioned above:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DwVRaLabSg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1g02dQWGh78

I have never seen a two handle shower / tub combo,
not sure how that would work.


Really ?
.... quite common in the old days.
John T.

On Thu, 01 Dec 2016 10:40:39 -0500, wrote:



I have never seen a two handle shower / tub combo,
not sure how that would work.


Really ?
... quite common in the old days.
John T.

Well, I was certainly around in the "old days", refresh my memory, oh
wait, did they use the stopper on the tub spout to divert the water to
the shower? That seems somewhat familiar.

I have never seen a two handle shower / tub combo,
not sure how that would work.


Really ?
... quite common in the old days.
John T.


.... ooops on me - I was thinking 3-handle.
John T.

In ,
typed:
I have never seen a two handle shower / tub combo,
not sure how that would work.

Me too -- at least about the part about how that would work.

I wonder if they only work for use as EITHER just a shower OR just a tub. I
am not sure how it would be able to switch back and forth from tub use to
shower use etc.

At first, I thought that maybe the tub faucet could have one of those
switches on in to turn the faucet either on or off -- and maybe with the tub
faucet off the water would divert up to the shower head. That seems a
little iffy to me, but maybe that's how it works?

Here's a link to an exploded view of a two handle "Tub and Shower Valve",
but it looks like, depending on where the plug is inserted, it can only be
either a tub valve or a shower valve -- but not both:

https://s1.img-b.com/build.com/media...sheet_1588.pdf

On Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 11:14:20 AM UTC-5, TomR wrote:
In ,
typed:
I have never seen a two handle shower / tub combo,
not sure how that would work.

Me too -- at least about the part about how that would work.

I wonder if they only work for use as EITHER just a shower OR just a tub. I
am not sure how it would be able to switch back and forth from tub use to
shower use etc.



They use a diverter valve in the spout for the tub, that's one way.
After the water is running into the tub, you pull it and it switches
to the shower.




At first, I thought that maybe the tub faucet could have one of those
switches on in to turn the faucet either on or off -- and maybe with the tub
faucet off the water would divert up to the shower head. That seems a
little iffy to me, but maybe that's how it works?


Bingo.

In ,
trader_4 typed:
On Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 11:14:20 AM UTC-5, TomR wrote:
In ,
typed:
I have never seen a two handle shower / tub combo,
not sure how that would work.

Me too -- at least about the part about how that would work.

I wonder if they only work for use as EITHER just a shower OR just a
tub. I am not sure how it would be able to switch back and forth
from tub use to shower use etc.

They use a diverter valve in the spout for the tub, that's one way.
After the water is running into the tub, you pull it and it switches
to the shower.

At first, I thought that maybe the tub faucet could have one of those
switches on in to turn the faucet either on or off -- and maybe with
the tub faucet off the water would divert up to the shower head.
That seems a little iffy to me, but maybe that's how it works?

Bingo.

Thanks, I guess that's it. I guess with an open tub faucet there would be
enough back pressure for the water to also back up to the height of the
shower head and leak out there at the same time.

And, I did just find this image that shows it set up for tub and shower use
with the diverter valve on the spout for the tub:

http://www.contractorssolutions.com/...le_faucets.jpg

Thanks for the comments so far.

Any preference on brand, assuming I go back with two faucet?

I would like to avoid tile repair. But I do have spare tiles, the previous owner was a pack rat.

Yes, I have an additional shower in the basement, and yes I predict some downtime. Of course there is no shutoff for the shower, but then none of the angle stops in the house actually hold anyway, so all my work is done shut off at the curb.

I had planned an opening big enough and an access panel. It will be behind a large vanity mirror so it won't show.

Yes, all DIY plumbing jobs take a minimum of 3 trips: one to buy the parts you think you need, a second one to buy the parts you really need, a third to replace the parts you broke or dropped down the hold. And that's just the minimum. I did have success on my last toilet repair in the minimum visits: one to replace the flapper valve, a second because I noticed the tank bolts were leaking, a third because after I replaced all the tank washers the supply line leaked.

after being unable to buy decent parts for my 3 handle tub shower valve, hot, cold, and shower i finally gave up and bought a single handle delta with temperature control. that was ac awesome upgrade. i highly recommend it/

On Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 12:02:04 PM UTC-5, bob haller wrote:
after being unable to buy decent parts for my 3 handle tub shower valve, hot, cold, and shower i finally gave up and bought a single handle delta with temperature control. that was ac awesome upgrade. i highly recommend it/


when doing a bathroom upgrade i han a garden hose to a shower head and tied it in place right above the basement floor drain. after the first shower i added a shower curtain around it, it was freezing cold without the curtain.. it worked great for the week or so till the job was complete.

our house had just one bathroom at the time

On Thu, 1 Dec 2016 08:49:36 -0800 (PST), TimR
wrote:

Any preference on brand, assuming I go back with two faucet?

I would like to avoid tile repair. But I do have spare tiles, the previous owner was a pack rat.

Yes, I have an additional shower in the basement, and yes I predict some downtime. Of course there is no shutoff for the shower, but then none of the angle stops in the house actually hold anyway, so all my work is done shut off at the curb.

I had planned an opening big enough and an access panel. It will be behind a large vanity mirror so it won't show.

Tim, I would look for one of the big name brands, Moen, American
Standard, Pfister, kholer, etc. With a two handle design, I would
look for a unit that uses ceramic discs instead of regular washers.

A great place to get your supplies is Amazon, they have excellent
prices and you get to do the shopping in your PJ's

As for how long it will take, if you use the Sharkbite fittings and
Pex tubing, once the wall is open you should be able to replace the
existing unit within and hour and be back up and running. Of course
that doesn't include wall repair.

Look on Amazon for the fittings, Pex tools and clamps. You can get a
decent clamp tool there for less than $25.

On 12/01/2016 09:27 AM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Thu, 01 Dec 2016 15:13:38 +0000, Stormin' Norman
wrote:

Also, is this strictly a shower or is it a shower / tub combo?

Oops, skip the question above, I have never seen a two handle shower /
tub combo, not sure how that would work. Too early, not enough
coffee, excuse, excuse, excuse...... :-)


The combination in my parents' house had three handles. The one in the
middle diverted water from tub to shower. I have seen others with 2
handles and a knob sticking out of the spout, marked "pull for shower"
(IIRC it would go back to tub so you had to pull for EVERY shower).

--
24 days until the winter celebration (Sunday December 25, 2016 12:00:00
AM for 1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"If fascism ever comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and
carrying a cross." -- Upton Sinclair, Huey P. Long, and others.

Followup question:

I have to cut through plaster and metal lath. I guess it's expanded perf metal, from the tiny bit I can see through the faucet openings.

I would cut a hole from stud to stud, but it's a lot harder to find studs in plaster walls, at least for me. I hope the shower is centered between studs.

The web has recommendations for a Rotozip and a utility knife for cutting plaster down to lath. I have both, never tried the zip on plaster though. Or a dremel and a lot of cutoff blades. Anybody have a good way to do this job?

On Thu, 01 Dec 2016 17:16:10 +0000, Stormin' Norman
wrote:

On Thu, 1 Dec 2016 08:49:36 -0800 (PST), TimR
wrote:

Any preference on brand, assuming I go back with two faucet?

I would like to avoid tile repair. But I do have spare tiles, the previous owner was a pack rat.

Yes, I have an additional shower in the basement, and yes I predict some downtime. Of course there is no shutoff for the shower, but then none of the angle stops in the house actually hold anyway, so all my work is done shut off at the curb.

I had planned an opening big enough and an access panel. It will be behind a large vanity mirror so it won't show.

Tim, I would look for one of the big name brands, Moen, American
Standard, Pfister, kholer, etc. With a two handle design, I would
look for a unit that uses ceramic discs instead of regular washers.

A great place to get your supplies is Amazon, they have excellent
prices and you get to do the shopping in your PJ's

As for how long it will take, if you use the Sharkbite fittings and
Pex tubing, once the wall is open you should be able to replace the
existing unit within and hour and be back up and running. Of course
that doesn't include wall repair.

Look on Amazon for the fittings, Pex tools and clamps. You can get a
decent clamp tool there for less than $25.

Here is a highly rated, ceramic disc, two handle Kohler valve at a
very reasonable price: $69
http://amzn.to/2gqr5MJ


You need to buy the valve trim separately:
http://amzn.to/2gqApAa

On Thu, 1 Dec 2016 09:29:12 -0800 (PST), TimR
wrote:

Followup question:

I have to cut through plaster and metal lath. I guess it's expanded perf metal, from the tiny bit I can see through the faucet openings.

I would cut a hole from stud to stud, but it's a lot harder to find studs in plaster walls, at least for me. I hope the shower is centered between studs.

The web has recommendations for a Rotozip and a utility knife for cutting plaster down to lath. I have both, never tried the zip on plaster though. Or a dremel and a lot of cutoff blades. Anybody have a good way to do this job?

I would use a reciprocating saw with a short, bimetal, metal cutting
blade.

Yes the existing valve is mounted between studs.

Just be careful when cutting with the recip saw, don't cut into your
pipes. First use a good hole saw on a drill so you can look in the
wall and see what you are dealing with.

Check out this video:

http://bit.ly/2gqAvrI

On Thu, 1 Dec 2016 09:29:12 -0800 (PST), TimR
wrote:

Followup question:

I have to cut through plaster and metal lath. I guess it's expanded perf metal, from the tiny bit I can see through the faucet openings.

I would cut a hole from stud to stud, but it's a lot harder to find studs in plaster walls, at least for me. I hope the shower is centered between studs.

The web has recommendations for a Rotozip and a utility knife for cutting plaster down to lath. I have both, never tried the zip on plaster though. Or a dremel and a lot of cutoff blades. Anybody have a good way to do this job?

A 4" angle grinder with a diamond blade. It will cut the plaster and
the metal with no problem, clean and fast. If you can borrow or rent
one, it would be great. Wear goggles.

https://www.amazon.com/4-Inch-Angle-Grinder/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3A4%20Inch%20Angle %20Grinder

In ,
TimR typed:
Thanks for the comments so far.

I would like to avoid tile repair. But I do have spare tiles, the
previous owner was a pack rat.

I agree. It's not worth messing with the tile. Just replace the existing
fixture with the same type/style -- meaning 2-handle faucet like you have
now.

Yes, I have an additional shower in the basement, and yes I predict
some downtime. Of course there is no shutoff for the shower, but
then none of the angle stops in the house actually hold anyway, so
all my work is done shut off at the curb.

After you open up the wall behind the shower, buy shutoff valves (I would
suggest ball valves with a waste port such as:
http://www.dongyavalve.com/products/...0valve122.html ). That way, you
can install them first and then continue the job later if needed without
having to turn off water in the whole house.

And, while you have the water off at the street, install a new, non-leaking,
ball valve with a waste port inside where the main water line comes in.
That will eliminate the need to shut off water at the street for any repairs
or leaks inside your home.

On Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 5:30:30 PM UTC-5, TomR wrote:
After you open up the wall behind the shower, buy shutoff valves (I would
suggest ball valves with a waste port such as:
http://www.dongyavalve.com/products/...0valve122.html ). That way, you
can install them first and then continue the job later if needed without
having to turn off water in the whole house.


Good idea but I don't think there's room. There's a sink and vanity on the back side of the shower and I have to work above it. I may be able to screw a plug into the supply depending on whether it's threaded or soldered.

And, while you have the water off at the street, install a new, non-leaking,
ball valve with a waste port inside where the main water line comes in.
That will eliminate the need to shut off water at the street for any repairs
or leaks inside your home.

Yeah, I had that idea too, haven't found the main water line though. Finished basement, and it's boxed in somewhere.

On Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 9:10:52 PM UTC-5, TimR wrote:
On Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 5:30:30 PM UTC-5, TomR wrote:
After you open up the wall behind the shower, buy shutoff valves (I would
suggest ball valves with a waste port such as:
http://www.dongyavalve.com/products/...0valve122.html ). That way, you
can install them first and then continue the job later if needed without
having to turn off water in the whole house.


Good idea but I don't think there's room. There's a sink and vanity on the back side of the shower and I have to work above it. I may be able to screw a plug into the supply depending on whether it's threaded or soldered.


Can you cut the pipes and put a SharkBite cap on them while you do most of the tear-out and
install?

BTDT

On Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 10:10:37 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 9:10:52 PM UTC-5, TimR wrote:
On Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 5:30:30 PM UTC-5, TomR wrote:
After you open up the wall behind the shower, buy shutoff valves (I would
suggest ball valves with a waste port such as:
http://www.dongyavalve.com/products/...0valve122.html ). That way, you
can install them first and then continue the job later if needed without
having to turn off water in the whole house.


Good idea but I don't think there's room. There's a sink and vanity on the back side of the shower and I have to work above it. I may be able to screw a plug into the supply depending on whether it's threaded or soldered.


Can you cut the pipes and put a SharkBite cap on them while you do most of the tear-out and
install?

BTDT

Probably so. When I replaced my kitchen sink faucet, I couldn't finish the job that night so I capped the lines and turned the water back on. I still have those caps but they are threaded and who knows what I'll find inside the wall.

In ,
TimR typed:
On Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 5:30:30 PM UTC-5, TomR wrote:
After you open up the wall behind the shower, buy shutoff valves (I
would suggest ball valves with a waste port such as:
http://www.dongyavalve.com/products/...0valve122.html ). That
way, you can install them first and then continue the job later if
needed without having to turn off water in the whole house.

Good idea but I don't think there's room. There's a sink and vanity
on the back side of the shower and I have to work above it. I may be
able to screw a plug into the supply depending on whether it's
threaded or soldered.

Interesting. I guess you'll just have to see what you have after you open
up the wall above the vanity and behind the large vanity mirror. Another
option may be to also go ahead and remove the vanity/sink combo below to
access that part of the wall. That is often fairly easy to do, and I assume
that would give you access to the tub drain fittngs. If you were able to do
that, you may also be able to create an access panel behind the vanity/sink
combo for future use.

If you do open the wall up from the back (behind the large vanity mirror),
and you find that the shower faucet handle mechanism is down too low to work
on it, then you may have 2 options.

One option would be to remove the vanity/sink combo to gain more access from
that side.

But, another option may be to change the plan a little and replace the
fixture from the front through the tile shower wall. I know you wanted to
avoid that, if possible, but it may be an option to consider. You could
take out enough whole tiles to access the shower faucet that you have now,
and replace them afterward with the extras that you said you have. But, you
would have to figure out how to create the two holes for the 2-handle
replacement faucet (or maybe save the old tiles for that part).

Or, as the person did in this video (
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DwVRaLabSg ), maybe you could do it all
from the front and replace the existing 2-handle faucet with a single handle
faucet.

And, while you have the water off at the street, install a new,
non-leaking, ball valve with a waste port inside where the main
water line comes in. That will eliminate the need to shut off water
at the street for any repairs or leaks inside your home.

Yeah, I had that idea too, haven't found the main water line though.
Finished basement, and it's boxed in somewhere.

Do you have access to the hot water tank? Sometimes, the incoming cold
water supply is a 3/4 line that goes directly to the hot water tank first,
and then splits off to 1/2 inch for cold water for the house right before
the hot water tank, and hot water for the house coming out of the hot water
tank. This isn't common unless the hot water tank happens to be near where
the cold water line comes into the house. But, if you have that setup, you
may be able to put a whole house shutoff valve in the 3/4-inch line going to
the hot water tank (before where the cold water splits off away from the hot
water tank). Just a thought.

On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 8:27:08 AM UTC-5, TimR wrote:
On Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 10:10:37 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 9:10:52 PM UTC-5, TimR wrote:
On Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 5:30:30 PM UTC-5, TomR wrote:
After you open up the wall behind the shower, buy shutoff valves (I would
suggest ball valves with a waste port such as:
http://www.dongyavalve.com/products/...0valve122.html ). That way, you
can install them first and then continue the job later if needed without
having to turn off water in the whole house.


Good idea but I don't think there's room. There's a sink and vanity on the back side of the shower and I have to work above it. I may be able to screw a plug into the supply depending on whether it's threaded or soldered.


Can you cut the pipes and put a SharkBite cap on them while you do most of the tear-out and
install?

BTDT

Probably so. When I replaced my kitchen sink faucet, I couldn't finish the job that night so I capped the lines and turned the water back on. I still have those caps but they are threaded and who knows what I'll find inside the wall.

Threaded to Solid SharkBite adapters:

http://www.sharkbite.com/product/threaded-adapters/

SharkBite Caps:

http://www.sharkbite.com/product/end-caps/

When you are ready to un-cap, use the appropriate SharkBite connector
from the threaded adapter to your copper or Pex to the new fixture.

Or use a SharkBite Shutoff on the threaded adapter:

http://www.sharkbite.com/product-cat...upply-fitting/

Obviously, you need to open the wall to see what you have, but you don't
have to cut anything right away. Open the wall, plan the job, buy the
parts. As a grizzled old plumber once said to me:

"Buy everything you think you might possibly need. It can all be returned."

TimR posted for all of us...



My shower needs replacement. The drip can't be stopped, new washers and seat do nothing, and the stem slips. I've tried the specialty places and they don't even recognize the brand, it seems to be the original 1962 installation. My plan was a new stem and seat but we couldn't find one that would fit.

So probably time to just replace. But that's a job I haven't done.

It is a two handle shower, which I like. I see you can still get those, I thought it was going to have to be a one handle conversion. Is there anything wrong with going back with a two handle? One that will last and be easy to replace parts on, I really would like this to be the last time I do the job.

I am going to have to cut the wall on the other side to get access, and that won't be easy - it's plaster and metal lath, not drywall.

But not having seen the inside of one of these, I'm wondering how hard it will be to get everything connected back up. I'm guessing it is galvanized pipe but I won't know until I get it open.

Or am I going the wrong direction?

One can buy a single handle faucet the has a wide escutcheon plate to hide
the holes. I'm sure there other ideas out there DAGS.

As a matter of personal preference I prefer Moen.



--
Tekkie

In article ,
TimR wrote:

Thanks for the comments so far.

I'm coming late, but I've read most of the thread.

Have you tried grinding the seat for the shutoff valve before using a
new washer? Back in the day, I had some success with this, but sometimes
it wasn't enough and a valve had to be replaced.

Any preference on brand, assuming I go back with two faucet?

I would like to avoid tile repair. But I do have spare tiles, the previous
owner was a pack rat.

Even so, the tile work will be another task to do and you'll probably
have to deal with a mud bed rather than a cement board.

Yes, I have an additional shower in the basement, and yes I predict some
downtime. Of course there is no shutoff for the shower, but then none of the
angle stops in the house actually hold anyway, so all my work is done shut
off at the curb.

I had planned an opening big enough and an access panel. It will be behind a
large vanity mirror so it won't show.

Good idea.

Yes, all DIY plumbing jobs take a minimum of 3 trips: one to buy the parts
you think you need, a second one to buy the parts you really need, a third to
replace the parts you broke or dropped down the hold. And that's just the
minimum. I did have success on my last toilet repair in the minimum visits:
one to replace the flapper valve, a second because I noticed the tank bolts
were leaking, a third because after I replaced all the tank washers the
supply line leaked.

--
charles

In article ,
Stormin' Norman wrote:

On Thu, 1 Dec 2016 09:29:12 -0800 (PST), TimR
wrote:

Followup question:

I have to cut through plaster and metal lath. I guess it's expanded perf
metal, from the tiny bit I can see through the faucet openings.

I would cut a hole from stud to stud, but it's a lot harder to find studs in
plaster walls, at least for me. I hope the shower is centered between
studs.

The web has recommendations for a Rotozip and a utility knife for cutting
plaster down to lath. I have both, never tried the zip on plaster though.
Or a dremel and a lot of cutoff blades. Anybody have a good way to do this
job?

I would use a reciprocating saw with a short, bimetal, metal cutting
blade.

Won't this shake the wall, perhaps causing additional damage?


[snip]

--
charles

On Fri, 02 Dec 2016 20:01:12 -0700, Charles Bishop
wrote:


Have you tried grinding the seat for the shutoff valve before using a
new washer? Back in the day, I had some success with this, but sometimes
it wasn't enough and a valve had to be replaced.

Something I did not think of, but you have a good point. Also a lot of
them older faucets had removable seats. You need a special inexpensive
tool to remove them. They need to be unscrewed. Take them to a plumbing
or hardware store to buy replacements.

Also, even if the OP cant identify the faucet brand, a decent plumbing
store or shop should be able to provide the parts. Unless the OP really
wants a new faucet, I'd spend time at plumbing shops and get new parts
to fix the old faucet. A lot less work, and expense. After all, the body
of a faucet is nothing more than a casting made of brass (plastic these
days). If the seats can be removed/replaced, then it's just a matter of
new washers, or maybe even new stems, but as long as parts can be
gotten, (most can), just replace the parts and save a huge job and
expense. With new seats, washers, packing and stems, that faucet will
likely last another 40 years. And if the handles look bad, they can be
replaced too.

In ,
TimR typed:
On Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 5:30:30 PM UTC-5, TomR wrote:
After you open up the wall behind the shower, buy shutoff valves (I
would suggest ball valves with a waste port such as:
http://www.dongyavalve.com/products/...0valve122.html ). That
way, you can install them first and then continue the job later if
needed without having to turn off water in the whole house.

. . . . . , There's a sink and vanity
on the back side of the shower and I have to work above it. . . . . ,

I was thinking about that while taking a shower last night in my old style
(with old pink tile) tub and shower which has a 3-handle shower faucet
system.

What I noticed is that my 3-handle shower faucet system is down pretty low
and is only slightly above the tub faucet. Just a quick guess is that maybe
my 3-handle shower faucet is only about 24 inches above the floor level in
the bathroom (I didn't think to measure the height last night).

If you have something similar, and you have a vanity sink and cabinet on the
wall behind the shower faucet, maybe your shower faucet is already below the
top of the vanity sink. If so, you won't be able to access the shower
faucet assembly from the other side without gaining access behind the vanity
sink.

You probably already did this, but be sure to check how high up your
2-handle shower fixture is above the floor level. Then measure that far up
on to wall on the other side to see how you would gain access to it from the
wall on the other side. I have a hunch that either the vanity sink/cabinet
will have to be removed, or you will have to do the job from the tile sided
of the shower.

If you don't mind, could you post back how high up off the bathroom floor
level your 2-handle shower faucet is?

On Saturday, December 3, 2016 at 11:35:36 AM UTC-5, TomR wrote:


If you don't mind, could you post back how high up off the bathroom floor
level your 2-handle shower faucet is?

You hit on my worst fear.

The vanity is 32 inches off the floor but it has a 4 inch ledge that the mirror sits on, so effectively 36 inches.

The shower faucet centerline is at 45 inches.

So I have tight but doable space to work in.

I will be back with more results after I get the wall open, but that's going to be a couple of weeks while my family gets their junk (cosmetics, earrgins, all the assorted crap that accumulates) out of the way and I can get to work.

In ,
TimR typed:
On Saturday, December 3, 2016 at 11:35:36 AM UTC-5, TomR wrote:
If you don't mind, could you post back how high up off the bathroom
floor level your 2-handle shower faucet is?

You hit on my worst fear.

The vanity is 32 inches off the floor but it has a 4 inch ledge that
the mirror sits on, so effectively 36 inches.

The shower faucet centerline is at 45 inches.

So I have tight but doable space to work in.

Interesting. That sounds like it will probably work with you just opening
the wall behind the mirror that is above the vanity sink.

But, if you need a little more room, you may be able to get that fairly
easily by leaving the vanity base cabinet in place and just removing the
sink off the top of the base cabinet. Of course, that will only work if the
4-inch ledge is part of the sink fixture. If the 4-inch ledge is part of
the cabinet structure, obviously that won't work.

It sounds like you have this mostly figured out and everything will probably
go smoothly.

On Saturday, December 3, 2016 at 12:13:40 PM UTC-5, TomR wrote:
In ,
TimR typed:
On Saturday, December 3, 2016 at 11:35:36 AM UTC-5, TomR wrote:
If you don't mind, could you post back how high up off the bathroom
floor level your 2-handle shower faucet is?

You hit on my worst fear.

The vanity is 32 inches off the floor but it has a 4 inch ledge that
the mirror sits on, so effectively 36 inches.

The shower faucet centerline is at 45 inches.

So I have tight but doable space to work in.

Interesting. That sounds like it will probably work with you just opening
the wall behind the mirror that is above the vanity sink.

But, if you need a little more room, you may be able to get that fairly
easily by leaving the vanity base cabinet in place and just removing the
sink off the top of the base cabinet. Of course, that will only work if the
4-inch ledge is part of the sink fixture. If the 4-inch ledge is part of
the cabinet structure, obviously that won't work.

It sounds like you have this mostly figured out and everything will probably
go smoothly.

I repaired that vanity sink some years ago.

I replaced the faucet assembly. But, it didn't come loose from the sink like the DIY articles say. It was anchored in securely with some kind of plumbing putty that had turned harder and stronger than JBWeld. I ended up disconnecting the sink, taking it outside, and beating on it with a rubber hammer for half an hour, eventually it loosened up and I put on the new faucet. Then I reassembled it in the vanity, and it didn't want to hang on those little clips, it took me half a day just to get the sink back into the hole before I could reconnect the water and the drain. So you can see I am not anxious to touch this vanity if there's any way to avoid it.

On Fri, 02 Dec 2016 20:04:21 -0700, Charles Bishop
wrote:

I would use a reciprocating saw with a short, bimetal, metal cutting
blade.

Won't this shake the wall, perhaps causing additional damage?

Quite possibly. The reason I suggested a 4" angle grinder with a
diamond blade. A plunge cut with the blade is much easier, less
damage.