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#1
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
A friend of mine asked me today why the electrical outlets in my house were
"upside down". They are positioned with the ground pin hole at the top and the two slots of the outlet on the bottom. I agree that, to me, they "look" like they are upside down, and I think they would "look" better with the ground pin hole on the bottom. But, my belief is that the National Electrical Code (NEC) is silent on this question and that there is no right or wrong orientation for electrical outlets. My friend said that he has had code enforcement officials tell him that electrical outlets with the ground pin hole on top were "upside down" and that they needed to be reversed to be with the ground pin on the bottom to pass the electrical inspection. Is there anything in the NEC that says that one way is "upside down" and the other way is the "correct" orientation? |
#2
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On 9/28/2016 9:18 PM, TomR wrote:
A friend of mine asked me today why the electrical outlets in my house were "upside down". They are positioned with the ground pin hole at the top and the two slots of the outlet on the bottom. I agree that, to me, they "look" like they are upside down, and I think they would "look" better with the ground pin hole on the bottom. But, my belief is that the National Electrical Code (NEC) is silent on this question and that there is no right or wrong orientation for electrical outlets. My friend said that he has had code enforcement officials tell him that electrical outlets with the ground pin hole on top were "upside down" and that they needed to be reversed to be with the ground pin on the bottom to pass the electrical inspection. Is there anything in the NEC that says that one way is "upside down" and the other way is the "correct" orientation? This was discussed recently. Some inspectors want the pin up. The reason is that in an office a paper clip fell and hit the prongs of a plug that was not pushed in fully. Pin up would not let it short. IIRC, national code does not mention it. |
#3
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
I don't know about nationally but I know
in the state of MA there's no spec. It can be either way. State code is what you should be concerned with. "TomR" wrote | Is there anything in the NEC that says that one way is "upside down" and the | other way is the "correct" orientation? | |
#4
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Wed, 28 Sep 2016 21:18:13 -0400, "TomR" wrote:
A friend of mine asked me today why the electrical outlets in my house were "upside down". They are positioned with the ground pin hole at the top and the two slots of the outlet on the bottom. I agree that, to me, they "look" like they are upside down, and I think they would "look" better with the ground pin hole on the bottom. But, my belief is that the National Electrical Code (NEC) is silent on this question and that there is no right or wrong orientation for electrical outlets. My friend said that he has had code enforcement officials tell him that electrical outlets with the ground pin hole on top were "upside down" and that they needed to be reversed to be with the ground pin on the bottom to pass the electrical inspection. Is there anything in the NEC that says that one way is "upside down" and the other way is the "correct" orientation? Short answer, No. There is no rule about how they are mounted and there is even a school of thought that ground up is better. Something falling between the plug and the wall would hit the ground. Typically when a receptacle is different than the rest, it is switched. |
#5
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
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#6
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
TomR explained on 9/28/2016 :
A friend of mine asked me today why the electrical outlets in my house were "upside down". They are positioned with the ground pin hole at the top and the two slots of the outlet on the bottom. I agree that, to me, they "look" like they are upside down, and I think they would "look" better with the ground pin hole on the bottom. But, my belief is that the National Electrical Code (NEC) is silent on this question and that there is no right or wrong orientation for electrical outlets. My friend said that he has had code enforcement officials tell him that electrical outlets with the ground pin hole on top were "upside down" and that they needed to be reversed to be with the ground pin on the bottom to pass the electrical inspection. Is there anything in the NEC that says that one way is "upside down" and the other way is the "correct" orientation? No, but some installations such as hospitals might dictate the ground up preference. Some equipment designed for hospitals and such might have cords with right-angle plugs on the end which expect the ground-up orientation. As someone else has mentioned, there may be locals codes to consider where NEC is agnostic on the matter. You are probably right, your friend is probably wrong, and his enforcement official should be able to cite an official local code to remove the 'probably' from those statements. If he does cite a source, I would like to see it because no such source has ever been cited before as far as I know. |
#7
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
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#8
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On 9/28/2016 6:18 PM, TomR wrote:
A friend of mine asked me today why the electrical outlets in my house were "upside down". They are positioned with the ground pin hole at the top and the two slots of the outlet on the bottom. I agree that, to me, they "look" like they are upside down, and I think they would "look" better with the ground pin hole on the bottom. But, my belief is that the National Electrical Code (NEC) is silent on this question and that there is no right or wrong orientation for electrical outlets. My friend said that he has had code enforcement officials tell him that electrical outlets with the ground pin hole on top were "upside down" and that they needed to be reversed to be with the ground pin on the bottom to pass the electrical inspection. Is there anything in the NEC that says that one way is "upside down" and the other way is the "correct" orientation? This is a question I tackled, successfully, years ago, here at Sunset Chateau. The neutral pin on the top is a safety precaution all us expert electrical types know about and perform on a routine basis. The purpose of such arrangement is to prevent a short should, for example, someone drop a metal object on partially exposed pins. May the Eye of Horus be which you. |
#9
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
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#10
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 7:39:29 AM UTC-4, Colonel Edmund J. Burke wrote:
On 9/28/2016 6:18 PM, TomR wrote: A friend of mine asked me today why the electrical outlets in my house were "upside down". They are positioned with the ground pin hole at the top and the two slots of the outlet on the bottom. I agree that, to me, they "look" like they are upside down, and I think they would "look" better with the ground pin hole on the bottom. But, my belief is that the National Electrical Code (NEC) is silent on this question and that there is no right or wrong orientation for electrical outlets. My friend said that he has had code enforcement officials tell him that electrical outlets with the ground pin hole on top were "upside down" and that they needed to be reversed to be with the ground pin on the bottom to pass the electrical inspection. Is there anything in the NEC that says that one way is "upside down" and the other way is the "correct" orientation? This is a question I tackled, successfully, years ago, here at Sunset Chateau. The neutral pin on the top is a safety precaution all us expert electrical types know about and perform on a routine basis. The purpose of such arrangement is to prevent a short should, for example, someone drop a metal object on partially exposed pins. Neutral pin? On the top? That can only happen if the receptacle is mounted sideways. I'd hardly consider that to be "routine". |
#11
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Thu, 29 Sep 2016 06:26:30 -0700 (PDT)
DerbyDad03 wrote: On Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 7:39:29 AM UTC-4, Colonel Edmund J. Burke wrote: On 9/28/2016 6:18 PM, TomR wrote: A friend of mine asked me today why the electrical outlets in my house were "upside down". They are positioned with the ground pin hole at the top and the two slots of the outlet on the bottom. I agree that, to me, they "look" like they are upside down, and I think they would "look" better with the ground pin hole on the bottom. But, my belief is that the National Electrical Code (NEC) is silent on this question and that there is no right or wrong orientation for electrical outlets. My friend said that he has had code enforcement officials tell him that electrical outlets with the ground pin hole on top were "upside down" and that they needed to be reversed to be with the ground pin on the bottom to pass the electrical inspection. Is there anything in the NEC that says that one way is "upside down" and the other way is the "correct" orientation? This is a question I tackled, successfully, years ago, here at Sunset Chateau. The neutral pin on the top is a safety precaution all us expert electrical types know about and perform on a routine basis. The purpose of such arrangement is to prevent a short should, for example, someone drop a metal object on partially exposed pins. Neutral pin? On the top? That can only happen if the receptacle is mounted sideways. I'd hardly consider that to be "routine". Not all that uncommon..... |
#12
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 6:45:29 AM UTC-4, FromTheRafters wrote:
TomR explained on 9/28/2016 : A friend of mine asked me today why the electrical outlets in my house were "upside down". They are positioned with the ground pin hole at the top and the two slots of the outlet on the bottom. I agree that, to me, they "look" like they are upside down, and I think they would "look" better with the ground pin hole on the bottom. But, my belief is that the National Electrical Code (NEC) is silent on this question and that there is no right or wrong orientation for electrical outlets. My friend said that he has had code enforcement officials tell him that electrical outlets with the ground pin hole on top were "upside down" and that they needed to be reversed to be with the ground pin on the bottom to pass the electrical inspection. Is there anything in the NEC that says that one way is "upside down" and the other way is the "correct" orientation? No, but some installations such as hospitals might dictate the ground up preference. Some equipment designed for hospitals and such might have cords with right-angle plugs on the end which expect the ground-up orientation. I've got a couple of appliance cords that expect the ground pin to be up. The freezer in my garage is like that, so I spun the receptacle around to match. I replaced the cord on a really old, almost jet engine strength, floor fan many years ago. I don't recall where I got the cord from, but the plug is designed for ground pin up. OT, but here's a plug-socket habit/pet peeve of mine: When plugging a "permanent" item (lamp, clock radio, toaster oven, etc.) into a duplex receptacle, please use the bottom receptacle to keep the top receptacle open for temporary use. |
#13
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 9:33:34 AM UTC-4, burfordTjustice wrote:
On Thu, 29 Sep 2016 06:26:30 -0700 (PDT) DerbyDad03 wrote: On Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 7:39:29 AM UTC-4, Colonel Edmund J. Burke wrote: On 9/28/2016 6:18 PM, TomR wrote: A friend of mine asked me today why the electrical outlets in my house were "upside down". They are positioned with the ground pin hole at the top and the two slots of the outlet on the bottom. I agree that, to me, they "look" like they are upside down, and I think they would "look" better with the ground pin hole on the bottom. But, my belief is that the National Electrical Code (NEC) is silent on this question and that there is no right or wrong orientation for electrical outlets. My friend said that he has had code enforcement officials tell him that electrical outlets with the ground pin hole on top were "upside down" and that they needed to be reversed to be with the ground pin on the bottom to pass the electrical inspection. Is there anything in the NEC that says that one way is "upside down" and the other way is the "correct" orientation? This is a question I tackled, successfully, years ago, here at Sunset Chateau. The neutral pin on the top is a safety precaution all us expert electrical types know about and perform on a routine basis. The purpose of such arrangement is to prevent a short should, for example, someone drop a metal object on partially exposed pins. Neutral pin? On the top? That can only happen if the receptacle is mounted sideways. I'd hardly consider that to be "routine". Not all that uncommon..... Just admit your error and move on. |
#14
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Thu, 29 Sep 2016 06:40:23 -0700 (PDT)
DerbyDad03 wrote: On Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 9:33:34 AM UTC-4, burfordTjustice wrote: On Thu, 29 Sep 2016 06:26:30 -0700 (PDT) DerbyDad03 wrote: On Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 7:39:29 AM UTC-4, Colonel Edmund J. Burke wrote: On 9/28/2016 6:18 PM, TomR wrote: A friend of mine asked me today why the electrical outlets in my house were "upside down". They are positioned with the ground pin hole at the top and the two slots of the outlet on the bottom. I agree that, to me, they "look" like they are upside down, and I think they would "look" better with the ground pin hole on the bottom. But, my belief is that the National Electrical Code (NEC) is silent on this question and that there is no right or wrong orientation for electrical outlets. My friend said that he has had code enforcement officials tell him that electrical outlets with the ground pin hole on top were "upside down" and that they needed to be reversed to be with the ground pin on the bottom to pass the electrical inspection. Is there anything in the NEC that says that one way is "upside down" and the other way is the "correct" orientation? This is a question I tackled, successfully, years ago, here at Sunset Chateau. The neutral pin on the top is a safety precaution all us expert electrical types know about and perform on a routine basis. The purpose of such arrangement is to prevent a short should, for example, someone drop a metal object on partially exposed pins. Neutral pin? On the top? That can only happen if the receptacle is mounted sideways. I'd hardly consider that to be "routine". Not all that uncommon..... Just admit your error and move on. negative |
#15
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
I think they look stupid when they are upside down (ground on top). I
put them with ground on bottom because thats what I'm used to and what looks best. I agree, but I suppose that's due to the way we recognize faces in humans and most animals. We are accustomed to seeing two eyes on top and a mouth below. So we tend to see faces even in inanimate objects. When the ground is placed on top, it just instinctively looks "wrong". At least that's my theory... Does that cloud look like an electrical outlet? I dont make a habit of dropping paper clips on plugs Even if you had an outlet behind a desk and knocked a paper clip off the back, the odds of it landing in the area of the plug is unlikely. Then it would have to slide down the wall in such a way that it fits between the plug and the outlet. Sure, there's an EXTREMELY remote chance it could happen, but the bigger issue is the plug not being plugged in all the way. Either the outlet needs to be replaced, or the cord needs to be relocated so it isn't being pulled out. Years ago I had some flat plug cords with a tab you could screw to the center outlet screw to secure it in place. That would solve the problem, but I can't say I've seen cords like that in recent years. If someone was really worried about it, you could mount the outlet sideways with the ground and neutral facing up. Or better yet, put a stop on the back of the desk to prevent things from getting knocked off the back in the first place. Or, you could install those locking outlets where you have to insert the plug and twist it to lock the plug in place. We have outlets in our kitchen that are mounted sideways on a half height peninsula wall where there's not enough space to mount them vertically. Any inspector who wont pass someone's wiring because of the mounting direction of outlets is an idiot. Perhaps, but it's not something I would argue about. If the local inspector wants them upside down, so be it. I just want to get my work approved with as little drama as possible. If it really bothers you, you can flip them over after the work is inspected. Anthony Watson www.watsondiy.com www.mountainsoftware.com |
#16
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 11:06:35 AM UTC-4, HerHusband wrote:
I think they look stupid when they are upside down (ground on top). I put them with ground on bottom because thats what I'm used to and what looks best. I agree, but I suppose that's due to the way we recognize faces in humans and most animals. We are accustomed to seeing two eyes on top and a mouth below. So we tend to see faces even in inanimate objects. When the ground is placed on top, it just instinctively looks "wrong". At least that's my theory... In addition, if they are all mounted "ground up" that risque cartoon would be obsolete. |
#17
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Thu, 29 Sep 2016 08:14:29 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote: I agree, but I suppose that's due to the way we recognize faces in humans and most animals. We are accustomed to seeing two eyes on top and a mouth below. So we tend to see faces even in inanimate objects. When the ground is placed on top, it just instinctively looks "wrong". At least that's my theory... In addition, if they are all mounted "ground up" that risque cartoon would be obsolete. https://tinyurl.com/gu4wxnz |
#18
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
HerHusband was thinking very hard :
and quoted someone without attribution. I think they look stupid when they are upside down (ground on top). I put them with ground on bottom because thats what I'm used to and what looks best. and then added I agree, but I suppose that's due to the way we recognize faces in humans and most animals. We are accustomed to seeing two eyes on top and a mouth below. So we tend to see faces even in inanimate objects. When the ground is placed on top, it just instinctively looks "wrong". At least that's my theory... Does that cloud look like an electrical outlet? LOL As an aside, one of the purported reasons I read for the ground-up orientation was that children see a face and try to feed it a nice meal of paperclips. I'm not entirely convinced of that myself, but there it is. Two other reasons which made sense were that pictures mounted on walls with metal wires, and the metal escutcheons on the receptacles themselves are the perceived hazards. Apparently none of those were compelling enough for NEC to jump on board. [...] |
#19
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
DerbyDad03 used his keyboard to write :
On Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 7:39:29 AM UTC-4, Colonel Edmund J. Burke wrote: On 9/28/2016 6:18 PM, TomR wrote: A friend of mine asked me today why the electrical outlets in my house were "upside down". They are positioned with the ground pin hole at the top and the two slots of the outlet on the bottom. I agree that, to me, they "look" like they are upside down, and I think they would "look" better with the ground pin hole on the bottom. But, my belief is that the National Electrical Code (NEC) is silent on this question and that there is no right or wrong orientation for electrical outlets. My friend said that he has had code enforcement officials tell him that electrical outlets with the ground pin hole on top were "upside down" and that they needed to be reversed to be with the ground pin on the bottom to pass the electrical inspection. Is there anything in the NEC that says that one way is "upside down" and the other way is the "correct" orientation? This is a question I tackled, successfully, years ago, here at Sunset Chateau. The neutral pin on the top is a safety precaution all us expert electrical types know about and perform on a routine basis. The purpose of such arrangement is to prevent a short should, for example, someone drop a metal object on partially exposed pins. Neutral pin? On the top? That can only happen if the receptacle is mounted sideways. I'd hardly consider that to be "routine". Most of my baseboard (or mopboard?) outlets are sideways. The house was built in 1910 with that open standoff insulator wiring but has been rewired since. |
#20
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
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#21
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 12:02:43 PM UTC-4, FromTheRafters wrote:
DerbyDad03 used his keyboard to write : On Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 7:39:29 AM UTC-4, Colonel Edmund J. Burke wrote: On 9/28/2016 6:18 PM, TomR wrote: A friend of mine asked me today why the electrical outlets in my house were "upside down". They are positioned with the ground pin hole at the top and the two slots of the outlet on the bottom. I agree that, to me, they "look" like they are upside down, and I think they would "look" better with the ground pin hole on the bottom. But, my belief is that the National Electrical Code (NEC) is silent on this question and that there is no right or wrong orientation for electrical outlets. My friend said that he has had code enforcement officials tell him that electrical outlets with the ground pin hole on top were "upside down" and that they needed to be reversed to be with the ground pin on the bottom to pass the electrical inspection. Is there anything in the NEC that says that one way is "upside down" and the other way is the "correct" orientation? This is a question I tackled, successfully, years ago, here at Sunset Chateau. The neutral pin on the top is a safety precaution all us expert electrical types know about and perform on a routine basis. The purpose of such arrangement is to prevent a short should, for example, someone drop a metal object on partially exposed pins. Neutral pin? On the top? That can only happen if the receptacle is mounted sideways. I'd hardly consider that to be "routine". Most of my baseboard (or mopboard?) outlets are sideways. The house was built in 1910 with that open standoff insulator wiring but has been rewired since. Open Standoff --- Knob and Tube Regardless, sideways receptacles are far from "routine" but bTj won't admit his error anyway. Interesting "wiring coincidence" Knob and Tube wiring The first time I encountered K&T wiring was when I was young kid and saw it in my Aunt's house. She lived on Narragansett Blvd. A couple of decades later, this same Aunt gave me some money to use as the down payment on my first house. 350 miles away and in a different state. This house was wired with the old-fashioned cloth-covered "romex". The brand name on most of it was Narragansett. Spooky! |
#22
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 11:06:35 AM UTC-4, HerHusband wrote:
I think they look stupid when they are upside down (ground on top). I put them with ground on bottom because thats what I'm used to and what looks best. I agree, but I suppose that's due to the way we recognize faces in humans and most animals. We are accustomed to seeing two eyes on top and a mouth below. So we tend to see faces even in inanimate objects. When the ground is placed on top, it just instinctively looks "wrong". At least that's my theory... I'd say it has more to do with the fact that almost all the ones I've seen and used everyday for decades are installed ground pin down. |
#23
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
It has never made sense to me that the probability of something conductive landing on the blades was high enough to be detectable. Of course it's not that hard to do it however the inspector wants.
One problem with that is reading a KilloWatt meter. European outlets don't have that problem. The pins are insulated halfway such that the tips don't make contact until they're completely inside. Ground is top AND bottom IIRC, and pins side by side. I think the real issue, not yet mentioned, is that a child can plug in a cord with his/her fingers on the blade. That is FAR more likely than dropping a paperclip on it. |
#24
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
DerbyDad03 has brought this to us :
On Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 12:02:43 PM UTC-4, FromTheRafters wrote: DerbyDad03 used his keyboard to write : On Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 7:39:29 AM UTC-4, Colonel Edmund J. Burke wrote: On 9/28/2016 6:18 PM, TomR wrote: A friend of mine asked me today why the electrical outlets in my house were "upside down". They are positioned with the ground pin hole at the top and the two slots of the outlet on the bottom. I agree that, to me, they "look" like they are upside down, and I think they would "look" better with the ground pin hole on the bottom. But, my belief is that the National Electrical Code (NEC) is silent on this question and that there is no right or wrong orientation for electrical outlets. My friend said that he has had code enforcement officials tell him that electrical outlets with the ground pin hole on top were "upside down" and that they needed to be reversed to be with the ground pin on the bottom to pass the electrical inspection. Is there anything in the NEC that says that one way is "upside down" and the other way is the "correct" orientation? This is a question I tackled, successfully, years ago, here at Sunset Chateau. The neutral pin on the top is a safety precaution all us expert electrical types know about and perform on a routine basis. The purpose of such arrangement is to prevent a short should, for example, someone drop a metal object on partially exposed pins. Neutral pin? On the top? That can only happen if the receptacle is mounted sideways. I'd hardly consider that to be "routine". Most of my baseboard (or mopboard?) outlets are sideways. The house was built in 1910 with that open standoff insulator wiring but has been rewired since. Open Standoff --- Knob and Tube Yeah, I looked it up to see what the correct terminology was just after hitting send. I saw that the description used the words 'insulator' and 'standoff' so I figured no harm, no foul. Regardless, sideways receptacles are far from "routine" but bTj won't admit his error anyway. He never does, and he is very often wrong. Interesting "wiring coincidence" Knob and Tube wiring The first time I encountered K&T wiring was when I was young kid and saw it in my Aunt's house. She lived on Narragansett Blvd. A couple of decades later, this same Aunt gave me some money to use as the down payment on my first house. 350 miles away and in a different state. This house was wired with the old-fashioned cloth-covered "romex". The brand name on most of it was Narragansett. Spooky! |
#25
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
TimR formulated the question :
It has never made sense to me that the probability of something conductive landing on the blades was high enough to be detectable. Of course it's not that hard to do it however the inspector wants. One problem with that is reading a KilloWatt meter. European outlets don't have that problem. The pins are insulated halfway such that the tips don't make contact until they're completely inside. Ground is top AND bottom IIRC, and pins side by side. I think the real issue, not yet mentioned, is that a child can plug in a cord with his/her fingers on the blade. That is FAR more likely than dropping a paperclip on it. Oh yeah, that one too, but not just for children. The idea that the thumb on top might contact the hot blade when plugging or unplugging. Many possible reasons, but none compelling enough for NEC to mandate. |
#26
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Thu, 29 Sep 2016 13:47:40 -0400, FromTheRafters
wrote: TimR formulated the question : It has never made sense to me that the probability of something conductive landing on the blades was high enough to be detectable. Of course it's not that hard to do it however the inspector wants. One problem with that is reading a KilloWatt meter. European outlets don't have that problem. The pins are insulated halfway such that the tips don't make contact until they're completely inside. Ground is top AND bottom IIRC, and pins side by side. I think the real issue, not yet mentioned, is that a child can plug in a cord with his/her fingers on the blade. That is FAR more likely than dropping a paperclip on it. Oh yeah, that one too, but not just for children. The idea that the thumb on top might contact the hot blade when plugging or unplugging. Many possible reasons, but none compelling enough for NEC to mandate. New Zealand may have a better idea on plugs and receptacles The plugs have handles on them and the receptacle has a switch so you can plug things in and turn them on after they are plugged in. The switch is upside down by our standard tho. http://gfretwell.com/ftp/New%20Zeala...plug%20cap.jpg |
#28
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On 09/28/2016 11:44 PM, wrote:
[snip] I think they look stupid when they are upside down (ground on top). I put them with ground on bottom because thats what I'm used to and what looks best. "looks stupid" and "looks best" is probably only what you're used to. If they were usually ground up, it would be different. I dont make a habit of dropping paper clips on plugs, I don't either. That doesn't mean it can't happen. Here, I think it more likely to be a small wire (twister) than a paper clip. and actually if a metal object was to fall on a loose plug, it could contact the ground as well as the hot terminal too (with the ground on top). More likely to trip the breaker than be a shock hazard. [snip] -- 87 days until the winter celebration (Sunday December 25, 2016 12:00:00 AM for 1 day). Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ On the sixth day God created man On the seventh day, man returned the favor. |
#29
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
"FromTheRafters" wrote in message ... on 9/29/2016, supposed : On Thu, 29 Sep 2016 13:47:40 -0400, FromTheRafters wrote: TimR formulated the question : It has never made sense to me that the probability of something conductive landing on the blades was high enough to be detectable. Of course it's not that hard to do it however the inspector wants. One problem with that is reading a KilloWatt meter. European outlets don't have that problem. The pins are insulated halfway such that the tips don't make contact until they're completely inside. Ground is top AND bottom IIRC, and pins side by side. I think the real issue, not yet mentioned, is that a child can plug in a cord with his/her fingers on the blade. That is FAR more likely than dropping a paperclip on it. Oh yeah, that one too, but not just for children. The idea that the thumb on top might contact the hot blade when plugging or unplugging. Many possible reasons, but none compelling enough for NEC to mandate. New Zealand may have a better idea on plugs and receptacles The plugs have handles on them and the receptacle has a switch so you can plug things in and turn them on after they are plugged in. The switch is upside down by our standard tho. http://gfretwell.com/ftp/New%20Zeala...plug%20cap.jpg That looks like a good idea to me. I wonder what the downsides are if any. Yes it is nice but that cost triple what cost in USA and on top of that you are using 220 instead of 115, 115 makes little more convenience. |
#30
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 2:15:46 PM UTC-4, FromTheRafters wrote:
on 9/29/2016, supposed : On Thu, 29 Sep 2016 13:47:40 -0400, FromTheRafters wrote: TimR formulated the question : It has never made sense to me that the probability of something conductive landing on the blades was high enough to be detectable. Of course it's not that hard to do it however the inspector wants. One problem with that is reading a KilloWatt meter. European outlets don't have that problem. The pins are insulated halfway such that the tips don't make contact until they're completely inside. Ground is top AND bottom IIRC, and pins side by side. I think the real issue, not yet mentioned, is that a child can plug in a cord with his/her fingers on the blade. That is FAR more likely than dropping a paperclip on it. Oh yeah, that one too, but not just for children. The idea that the thumb on top might contact the hot blade when plugging or unplugging. Many possible reasons, but none compelling enough for NEC to mandate. New Zealand may have a better idea on plugs and receptacles The plugs have handles on them and the receptacle has a switch so you can plug things in and turn them on after they are plugged in. The switch is upside down by our standard tho. http://gfretwell.com/ftp/New%20Zeala...plug%20cap.jpg That looks like a good idea to me. I wonder what the downsides are if any. A switch that gets bumped to Off on a receptacle that should always be On. "Grandpa's Iron Lung sure is quiet today." |
#31
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On 09/29/2016 08:38 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
[snip] When plugging a "permanent" item (lamp, clock radio, toaster oven, etc.) into a duplex receptacle, please use the bottom receptacle to keep the top receptacle open for temporary use. That's something I do. Sometimes, I've even changed it in public places. Unlike a lot of people, my idea of "looks best" depends on practical things, not silly rules. If you plug something into the top outlet (of a vertically mounted) duplex receptacle, the cord hangs down across the bottom outlet making it harder to use. I'm not sure if I EVER thought it looked best to use the top. -- 87 days until the winter celebration (Sunday December 25, 2016 12:00:00 AM for 1 day). Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ On the sixth day God created man On the seventh day, man returned the favor. |
#32
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On 09/29/2016 10:14 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
[snip] In addition, if they are all mounted "ground up" that risque cartoon would be obsolete. People who like that kind of thing will always find something. OT: Apparently, green is now a Halloween color. If you want to put out green lights, you can use Christmas ones. |
#33
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On 09/29/2016 11:49 AM, TimR wrote:
[snip] European outlets don't have that problem. The pins are insulated halfway such that the tips don't make contact until they're completely inside. Ground is top AND bottom IIRC, and pins side by side. I think the real issue, not yet mentioned, is that a child can plug in a cord with his/her fingers on the blade. That is FAR more likely than dropping a paperclip on it. Once, I was plugging radio into a receptacle in an old building. The receptacle was damaged in such a way that the only way a plug would go is was it you squeezed he prongs together while inserting the plug. I could have used insulated fingers :-) -- 87 days until the winter celebration (Sunday December 25, 2016 12:00:00 AM for 1 day). Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ On the sixth day God created man On the seventh day, man returned the favor. |
#34
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 2:48:41 PM UTC-4, notX wrote:
On 09/29/2016 10:14 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: [snip] In addition, if they are all mounted "ground up" that risque cartoon would be obsolete. People who like that kind of thing will always find something. OT: Apparently, green is now a Halloween color. If you want to put out green lights, you can use Christmas ones. I'm pretty sure that Jesus would frown upon using Christmas lights on Halloween. Just sayin' (I decorate for Christmas because I decorate for Halloween. Better safe than sorry.) |
#35
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
In ,
TomR typed: A friend of mine asked me today why the electrical outlets in my house were "upside down". They are positioned with the ground pin hole at the top and the two slots of the outlet on the bottom. I agree that, to me, they "look" like they are upside down, and I think they would "look" better with the ground pin hole on the bottom. But, my belief is that the National Electrical Code (NEC) is silent on this question and that there is no right or wrong orientation for electrical outlets. My friend said that he has had code enforcement officials tell him that electrical outlets with the ground pin hole on top were "upside down" and that they needed to be reversed to be with the ground pin on the bottom to pass the electrical inspection. Is there anything in the NEC that says that one way is "upside down" and the other way is the "correct" orientation? Thanks all for the replies. Looks like the answer is that there is no national code (in the U.S.A.) that requires outlets to be oriented in any special direction. One thing that I also noticed in recent years is that there does not seem to be any one standard way that the 3 prongs on 3-prong plugs are oriented -- including the flush mount type plugs that allow the wire to be parallel to the wall with the plug plugged in. With those types of plugs, I would like to be able to orient the outlet so that the plug wire can come up from the floor or down from the appliance (such as a window A/C) and plug in correctly. I am probably not describing or explaining this too well. And, I sometimes thought it would be interesting if all outlets were designed so that there would be not "up" or "down" position. For example, if all duplex outlets had the ground pin of each outlet on each end and the other two prongs in the center, then there would be no "up" or "down" orientation -- the outlet would look the same regardless of which way it was installed. But, there would be problems with that idea because that would result it the hot side screw of one outlet being on the same side as the neutral side screw of the other outlet in the duplex. |
#36
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
In article , Mark Lloyd
wrote: I don't either. That doesn't mean it can't happen. Here, I think it more likely to be a small wire (twister) than a paper clip. When I was about 5 years old, there was no ground pin on the outlets. (Neutral was the wide slot, Hot the narrow slot.) Milk was delivered to the house. A quart milk bottle had a paper cover held on by a wire. I knew that there was "electricity" in the outlet, and wire was an electric conductor. One morning after the milkman came, I decided to try an experiment. Fortunately I only burned my fingers. Unfortunately I did not learn my lesson completely. I've been shocked numerous times since then. Recently I came to appreciate GFCI outlets! Fred |
#37
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 3:07:16 PM UTC-4, TomR wrote:
In , TomR typed: A friend of mine asked me today why the electrical outlets in my house were "upside down". They are positioned with the ground pin hole at the top and the two slots of the outlet on the bottom. I agree that, to me, they "look" like they are upside down, and I think they would "look" better with the ground pin hole on the bottom. But, my belief is that the National Electrical Code (NEC) is silent on this question and that there is no right or wrong orientation for electrical outlets. My friend said that he has had code enforcement officials tell him that electrical outlets with the ground pin hole on top were "upside down" and that they needed to be reversed to be with the ground pin on the bottom to pass the electrical inspection. Is there anything in the NEC that says that one way is "upside down" and the other way is the "correct" orientation? Thanks all for the replies. Looks like the answer is that there is no national code (in the U.S.A.) that requires outlets to be oriented in any special direction. One thing that I also noticed in recent years is that there does not seem to be any one standard way that the 3 prongs on 3-prong plugs are oriented -- including the flush mount type plugs that allow the wire to be parallel to the wall with the plug plugged in. With those types of plugs, I would like to be able to orient the outlet so that the plug wire can come up from the floor or down from the appliance (such as a window A/C) and plug in correctly. I am probably not describing or explaining this too well. And, I sometimes thought it would be interesting if all outlets were designed so that there would be not "up" or "down" position. There is no up or down position now. For example, if all duplex outlets had the ground pin of each outlet on each end and the other two prongs in the center, then there would be no "up" or "down" orientation -- the outlet would look the same regardless of which way it was installed. But, there would be problems with that idea because that would result it the hot side screw of one outlet being on the same side as the neutral side screw of the other outlet in the duplex. |
#38
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Thu, 29 Sep 2016 15:07:13 -0400, "TomR" wrote:
And, I sometimes thought it would be interesting if all outlets were designed so that there would be not "up" or "down" position. For example, if all duplex outlets had the ground pin of each outlet on each end and the other two prongs in the center, then there would be no "up" or "down" orientation -- the outlet would look the same regardless of which way it was installed. But, there would be problems with that idea because that would result it the hot side screw of one outlet being on the same side as the neutral side screw of the other outlet in the duplex. Like this http://www.legrand.us/~/media/produc...=0&h=181&w=181 |
#39
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
DerbyDad03 was thinking very hard :
On Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 2:48:41 PM UTC-4, notX wrote: On 09/29/2016 10:14 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: [snip] In addition, if they are all mounted "ground up" that risque cartoon would be obsolete. People who like that kind of thing will always find something. OT: Apparently, green is now a Halloween color. If you want to put out green lights, you can use Christmas ones. I'm pretty sure that Jesus would frown upon using Christmas lights on Halloween. Just sayin' (I decorate for Christmas because I decorate for Halloween. Better safe than sorry.) Is ham dinner still okay? |
#40
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
In ,
typed: On Thu, 29 Sep 2016 15:07:13 -0400, "TomR" wrote: And, I sometimes thought it would be interesting if all outlets were designed so that there would be not "up" or "down" position. For example, if all duplex outlets had the ground pin of each outlet on each end and the other two prongs in the center, then there would be no "up" or "down" orientation -- the outlet would look the same regardless of which way it was installed. But, there would be problems with that idea because that would result it the hot side screw of one outlet being on the same side as the neutral side screw of the other outlet in the duplex. Like this http://www.legrand.us/~/media/produc...=0&h=181&w=181 Wow, interesting! Yes, like that! -- except maybe a duplex receptacle instead of a "quad". I found this info on the one you posted: SPECIFICATION GRADE QUAD RECEPTACLE, 415W , Pass & Seymour http://www.legrand.us/passandseymour...uads/415w.aspx |
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