On Tue, 8 Dec 2015 21:09:16 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

Oren wrote, on Tue, 08 Dec 2015 10:36:10 -0800:

Pool pump repair may take up to 500 postings.
Same with garage door repairs.
Danny does do his research

Hi Oren,

The number of posts don't matter (that just means I'm responsive).
What matters is what *we* learn. Together.
And, how we help each other.

And I *always* appreciate your help and that from the others!
And, well, I learned far too much today!

Bad news!
The tire is ruined.

Why?
I'm soooooooo stupid.
So very stupid.
It's all my fault.

However, the good news is that I *learned* a lot!
And, there's much (much) more to learn about patching tires properly!

I have to run to pick up my sister's kids (they're staying with us
"temporarily" for the past year - which is ok with me - as long as
my sister's latest loser boyfriend doesn't get on our nerves!), so
I haven't uploaded the pictures yet, but, I'm gonna *experiment*
with the tire, since I ruined it already.

It turns out that a proper patch requires some special tools
and materials, such as explained in this quickie procedure.

1. Mark the hole outside and inside (circle 1/2" outside patch area)
2. Inspect for damage (no visible treads on the inside)
3. Probe the angle & thickness of the hole with a tapered awl
4. Optionally put down a solvent to remove the inside coat
5. Optionally use a half-moon scraper to scrape to vulcanized rubber
6. Buff with a semicircular tire-buffing wheel (2500to5000rpm only!)
7. CRITICAL! Three passes both ways with a carbide cutter!=== critical!
8. Brass bristle brush and/or vacuum away shavings
9. Fill the hole with cement and around the patch area (to chalk circle)
10 DO NOT TOUCH THE STEM OF THE PATCHPLUG!
11. Pull patchplug through the hole until it slightly dimples
12. Roll a round serrated stitcher across every mm of the patch
13. Optionally add a tire liner sealer to the inside
14. Cut the rubber stem flush outside.

Most of the tools I might get away with a dremel tool (on super low
speed) but I think the main tool that I need to buy is the
carbide bit which is a special bit to smooth down the sharp ends
of the cut belt.

Have you seen these tools in a kit?
a. Half-moon scraper
b. Semicircular buffing wheel
c. Carbide cutter === very important
d. Stitcher wheel

Anyway, I'll be back, as I took pictures, but I have to run to pick up
the kids.
Not so smart now, I see.

Better to pay somebody to do it right (particularly with safety
related stuff like tires and brakes)

On Tue, 8 Dec 2015 22:43:27 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

clare wrote, on Tue, 08 Dec 2015 17:22:27 -0500:

Not yet - but next year. And ALL cars with dynamic stability control
tell you you need to have all tires matching.

But what the heck - it's your car. Drive with 4 different sized tires
and pay your repair bills.

You seem to have everything wrong, but I don't know where you get
your ideas from.

I was never talking about putting the wrong *size* on the car or even
different sizes on the same axle, or even on different axles.

If you inferred that, I never said (nor implied it).
Different brand tires of the same size, or tires with differing wear
amounts amount to the same thing. On AWD cars, and cars with dynamic
traction control, you ALWAYS replace tires 4 at a time.

On Tue, 8 Dec 2015 15:53:21 -0700, Tony Hwang
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 8 Dec 2015 04:29:34 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

clare wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 21:05:14 -0500:

It's a lot more important on cars with all wheel drive and fancy
stability/traction control.

They were NOT snowing him.

I wouldn't "think" of driving any car without all four tires
"matching" in tread pattern and brand and model.

I still don't see why a Subaru is any different than any
other vehicle, AWD or otherwise.

Because you don't know the anatomy of Subaru system yet.


AWD has 3 differentials. Different diameter tires cause the
differentials to "work" all the time. If they have limited slip or
traction control, the different sized wheels turn at different speeds
and confuse the heck out of everything.

Most likely causing damage.

What the heck does AWD have to do with it anyway?
All decent cars have stability control (and have had them
for a decade or more).

Mine, for example, is a dozen years old and it has DSC, and,
all cars, by law, I think nowadays, have stability control.

Not yet - but next year. And ALL cars with dynamic stability control
tell you you need to have all tires matching.

But what the heck - it's your car. Drive with 4 different sized tires
and pay your repair bills.

When differential gets busted.

So, what's different about a Subaru (except the marketing
team wants you to "think" they're "special").

One hint Subaru system does not have power torque. Ever driven xDrive?
That is BMW system.
Try it once and experience power torque. Jeeps too. Ever do off-roading?
Some times ignorance is even dangerous.
By "power torque" you mean "torque steer"
And you are right!!

wrote:
On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 13:13:01 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


"Danny D." wrote in message
...
Ralph Mowery wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 12:44:04 -0500:


Yikes! I hate Sears! I promised myself in 1981 that I'd *never* go
to Sears ever again! I tell everyone *not* to go to Sears!


Turns out, they mechanic *ADMITTED* he didn't do a thing!
He said his charts only went back 10 years and my car was 11 years
old! Can you believe that.

I should have complained to high heaven and gotten a refund.
I just let them re-align it.

I wasn't as crotchety when I was young, but I would have complained
to the district attorney or something had I been the age I am now.

It's criminal what Sears does to rip off people.
Absolutely criminal.

I watch all my alignments like a hawk watching a mouse now.
Sears sucks. I will *never* ever go to Sears for the rest of my
life, and I make sure everyone knows how bad they are.

The're criminals.
I'm sorry you worked there, and I do apologize for the diatribe.
It's not your fault they are criminals. It's their fault.


I was about 19 at the time. Just a part time job while in school.
I don't know about the quality of work, but at that store I know they did
make an attempt at doing whatever was suspose to be done, maybe others
don't.

I do know lots of places will rip you off. Local Ford dealer did to a
friend. He took a car with a V8 to get the plugs changed. It came back
with the same miss in the engine it had. They only changed 7 plugs as the
8th was very hard to get to. He went back and complained and was asked how
he knew the plug was not changed. He said because 7 were of one brand and
the hard to get to was another.

I hate that a local 'shade tree mechanic' got too old and quit. He was an
honest man and good at what he did. I had him to do several jobs for me
like changing a timing belt. He recommended a few othe things such as the
water pump as it was driven by the belt and all it was 4 bolts to do it.
Said it would not be any more labor and just his cost of the part. Bet not
many if any dealers would do that.


Actually quite a few would. I know mine did. It's the only way to keep
customers. Treet them like GOLD. The car salesman sells a customer
his first car from the dealership. The service department sells him
the next - and thel

Only dealers my family deals with is Bimmer, Subaru, Acura. They do
excellent jobs selling/trading/servicing. If they screw you even by a
mistake, they know they will lose you to the other dealer at the other
part of the city. All 3 we deal with are family owned.

On Tue, 8 Dec 2015 21:09:16 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

Oren wrote, on Tue, 08 Dec 2015 10:36:10 -0800:

Pool pump repair may take up to 500 postings.
Same with garage door repairs.
Danny does do his research

Hi Oren,

The number of posts don't matter (that just means I'm responsive).
What matters is what *we* learn. Together.
And, how we help each other.

And I *always* appreciate your help and that from the others!
And, well, I learned far too much today!

Bad news!
The tire is ruined.

Why?
I'm soooooooo stupid.
So very stupid.
It's all my fault.

However, the good news is that I *learned* a lot!
And, there's much (much) more to learn about patching tires properly!

I have to run to pick up my sister's kids (they're staying with us
"temporarily" for the past year - which is ok with me - as long as
my sister's latest loser boyfriend doesn't get on our nerves!), so
I haven't uploaded the pictures yet, but, I'm gonna *experiment*
with the tire, since I ruined it already.

It turns out that a proper patch requires some special tools
and materials, such as explained in this quickie procedure.

1. Mark the hole outside and inside (circle 1/2" outside patch area)
2. Inspect for damage (no visible treads on the inside)
3. Probe the angle & thickness of the hole with a tapered awl
4. Optionally put down a solvent to remove the inside coat
5. Optionally use a half-moon scraper to scrape to vulcanized rubber
6. Buff with a semicircular tire-buffing wheel (2500to5000rpm only!)
7. CRITICAL! Three passes both ways with a carbide cutter!=== critical!
8. Brass bristle brush and/or vacuum away shavings
9. Fill the hole with cement and around the patch area (to chalk circle)
10 DO NOT TOUCH THE STEM OF THE PATCHPLUG!
11. Pull patchplug through the hole until it slightly dimples
12. Roll a round serrated stitcher across every mm of the patch
13. Optionally add a tire liner sealer to the inside
14. Cut the rubber stem flush outside.

Most of the tools I might get away with a dremel tool (on super low
speed) but I think the main tool that I need to buy is the
carbide bit which is a special bit to smooth down the sharp ends
of the cut belt.

Have you seen these tools in a kit?
a. Half-moon scraper
b. Semicircular buffing wheel
c. Carbide cutter === very important
d. Stitcher wheel

Anyway, I'll be back, as I took pictures, but I have to run to pick up
the kids.

The last time I repaired a tire ( punch thru of a screw which I yanked
out) I bought a kit with rubber plugs and rubber cement. Greased the
hole with cement, put the plug on the inserter tool, shoved it thru
form the outside and withdrew the tool. That repair and tire lasted
another 20K miles.

On 12/8/2015 5:55 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 8 Dec 2015 14:11:17 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 12/7/2015 11:38 PM, Danny D. wrote:
clare wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 21:52:49 -0500:

What's the difference between a Bimmer and a Beemer????

Big difference.
Anyone saying the wrong word is an idiot poser.


Here is a decent description:
http://www.boston-bmwcca.org/referen...er-beemer.aspx

BTW, it doesn't matter what *you* (or I) think; it matters that anyone
who knows anything about bimmers or beemers know this, and anyone who
knows absolutely nothing about bimmers or beemers doesn't know this.


Truth is, most of us don't give a damn. 90% of the owners are snobs no
matter what you call a BMW.
What's the difference between a BMW and a Porcupine??

Eggsacktaly!

On 12/8/2015 6:21 PM, wrote:

Different brand tires of the same size, or tires with differing wear
amounts amount to the same thing. On AWD cars, and cars with dynamic
traction control, you ALWAYS replace tires 4 at a time.


Historically I've been bad about rotating tires but have done OK with
the last couple of cars. It does pay to have them wear evenly though
and now that I have AWD I'll be more vigilant.

When the original tires go I'll probably get Nokian WRG3 again. I rally
liked them on my last car.

My first car was a '53 Mercury. Only bought one used or re-cap tire at
a time as needed.

On Tue, 8 Dec 2015 21:20:37 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 12/8/2015 6:21 PM, wrote:

Different brand tires of the same size, or tires with differing wear
amounts amount to the same thing. On AWD cars, and cars with dynamic
traction control, you ALWAYS replace tires 4 at a time.


Historically I've been bad about rotating tires but have done OK with
the last couple of cars. It does pay to have them wear evenly though
and now that I have AWD I'll be more vigilant.

When the original tires go I'll probably get Nokian WRG3 again. I rally
liked them on my last car.

My first car was a '53 Mercury. Only bought one used or re-cap tire at
a time as needed.
With directional tires you just switch front to back - not a full
rotate (and I've never done/liked full rotation on radial tires (or
even the old bias belted tires)

I've never replaced tires one at a time - and untill the Ranger I'd
never installed used tires. The alloy rims I bought for it (torque
thrust style Eagle Alloys) came with a decent set of Coopers that I
drove for a year, and I got a set of Hak R2 SUVs with one season of
use for a good price so I put them on for this winter. Should last me
for another 4 or 5 winters.

On 12/08/2015 03:57 PM, wrote:
It is a BMW whether it has 2 wheels or 4. Bimmer or Beemer are both
just *******izations of the same name.

Hard to get to either from Bayerische.

Tony Hwang wrote, on Tue, 08 Dec 2015 16:00:22 -0700:

I just shake my head. I thought Bimmer drivers are some intelligent
people who understand basics of vehicle. When you mount tires you
rotate tires on the wheel to minimize the use of balancing weight.

I think we misunderstood each other.

I am a typical BMW owner who mounts and balances his own tires.
I know all about the red and yellow dots on most new tires.

Here is how I mounted and balanced my tires to minimize weights:
1. I removed the old tires & all the old weights.
2. I washed the five rims & located the match mounting dot on the rims.
3. I located both the red and yellow dots on my new tire sidewalls.
4. I leveled all five of the empty clean weightless rims.
5. I placed them in order of worst to best, with worst being the spare.
6. I chose the two best new tires for the front (yellow/red being closest).
7. I mounted and balanced those two best tires to the two best rims.
8. I mounted and balanced the next-best tires to the next-best rims.
9. I mounted and balanced the worst tire & worst rim for the spare.
10. In each case, I paired the red dot with the valve stem for allow wheels.

I then took the vehicle out for a high-speed run.
Had it vibrated, I would have then taken the vehicle in to a shop to
ascertain if the vibration were due to:

a. Suspension components
b. Steering components
c. Alignment
d. Wheels & tires

What exactly do you find wrong with my procedure?

clare wrote, on Tue, 08 Dec 2015 18:21:55 -0500:


Different brand tires of the same size, or tires with differing wear
amounts amount to the same thing. On AWD cars, and cars with dynamic
traction control, you ALWAYS replace tires 4 at a time

Again you seem to have everything wrong?

Who said *anything* about different brand tires of any size?

Are you just making this stuff up?

You're the *only* one talking about different brand tires on the
same vehicle. Nobody else would even *think* of doing that, except
as a ghetto maneuver.

clare wrote, on Tue, 08 Dec 2015 18:01:16 -0500:

Not so smart now, I see.

Heh heh ... you totally misunderstand the Dunning-Kruger effect.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect

Better to pay somebody to do it right (particularly with safety
related stuff like tires and brakes)

Heh heh ... that's the kind of advice people give who are *not*
on the home-repair or auto-tech groups.

I didn't ruin the tire repairing it.
You simply *assumed* that because you *wanted* to assume that.

I never said that.

You clearly have an *agenda* and that agenda is apparently to tell
us that we can't repair the simplest of things like tires.

Remind me to ask Oren to tell you how we select and buy and
wind our own garage door torsion springs some day. Or how we
compress the springs on our struts to replace them.

If you want the job done right, you do it yourself.
It's not that the pros don't *know* how to do the job right.
It's simply that we do it better because we delve into the details
and we care about the results.

We're smart that way.

Ashton Crusher wrote, on Tue, 08 Dec 2015 17:48:46 -0700:

The last time I repaired a tire ( punch thru of a screw which I yanked
out) I bought a kit with rubber plugs and rubber cement. Greased the
hole with cement, put the plug on the inserter tool, shoved it thru
form the outside and withdrew the tool. That repair and tire lasted
another 20K miles.

There's a right way to do things, and a wrong way, and both work.
You did it the wrong way, and that's fine.
It's your tire, and I won't knock you for how you repaired it.
Both ways work.

For reference, here is a great video on the *right* way:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wi5uBUaMsrA


Here's my summary of what that video recommends, along with a bit
of research about where I can obtain the tools and chemicals at
a good price and in small single-use quantities:

TOOLS: (http://www.vampa.net/category_s/39.htm)
a. Tire repair awl
b. Half-moon scraper
c. Carbide bit reamer
d. Cone-shaped grinding wheel (5,000RPM)
e. PatchPlug
f. Stitching tool

FLUIDS: (http://www.vampa.net/category_s/36.htm)
a. Westernweld Inner Liner Pre-Buff Solution Redi-Buff BU32 or BU16S
b. Westernweld Self-Vulcanizing Fast Drying Cement SV8 or SV32
c. Westernweld Inner Liner Sealer RS8 or RS32
http://www.vampa.net/product_p/ww-rs32.htm

It's too late now, but I'm gonna call these guys tomorrow to see
what I can learn about what is inside those three chemicals above.

Western States Mfg 800-831-4724 www.westernweld.com

UPDATE:
My tire went flat and I drove about a mile as it was losing air:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5829/2...fb786d7a_b.jpg

I brought the wheel to Wheel Works, who will repair the puncture
using an internal patchplug, and they will mount and balance and
rotate the tire with the spare, all for free:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/608/23...cf48f94b_b.jpg

Unfortunately, the tire was ruined by my driving on it:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/663/22...5d6141cc_b.jpg

They told me that they can't fix a tire with the belt showing:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/616/23...ce028743_b.jpg

Given the tire is ruined, I decided to experiment with patches:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/673/22...4f5596c6_b.jpg

Here is one type of patchplug:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5760/2...fc8c2ea0_b.jpg

Here is another type of patchplug:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5727/2...0ff00e1f_b.jpg

I bought a few tools, such as the stitching tool & cement:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/725/23...9849ed98_b.jpg

And, I plan on experimenting to see which type works best:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/724/23...67e9b31e_b.jpg

Here is one of the better videos on how to properly repair a hole:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wi5uBUaMsrA

Here are the tools that this video recommends:
a. Tire repair awl
b. Half-moon scraper
c. Carbide bit reamer
d. Cone-shaped grinding wheel (5,000RPM)
e. PatchPlug
f. Stitching tool

I tried to find these tools locally, but I may need to buy online:
http://www.vampa.net/category_s/39.htm

Here are the chemicals that this video recommends:
a. Westernweld Inner Liner Pre-Buff Solution Redi-Buff BU32 or BU16S
b. Westernweld Self-Vulcanizing Fast Drying Cement SV8 or SV32
c. Westernweld Inner Liner Sealer RS8 or RS32

I tried to find them locally, but again, I may need to buy online:
http://www.vampa.net/category_s/36.htm
http://www.vampa.net/product_p/ww-rs32.htm

I will call the company recommended in that video to find a source
for the three chemicals and for the half-dozen tire-repair tools:
Western States Mfg 800-831-4724 www.westernweld.com

Any corrections, clarifications, or further advice is always welcome.

Danny D. wrote, on Wed, 09 Dec 2015 04:13:29 +0000:

Then, when BMW started selling cages in the USA, they called the cages "beemers".

ooops. typo.

Bimmers === cages

On 12/08/2015 09:39 PM, Danny D. wrote:
Danny D. wrote, on Wed, 09 Dec 2015 04:13:29 +0000:

Then, when BMW started selling cages in the USA, they called the cages "beemers".

ooops. typo.

Bimmers === cages


Never drove the cage version. The closest I came was an Audi. Never buy
one of the first efforts of a company known for rear engine, RWD cars to
build a front engine, FWD vehicle. They must have gotten much better at it.

On Tue, 08 Dec 2015 17:48:46 -0700, Ashton Crusher
wrote:



The last time I repaired a tire ( punch thru of a screw which I yanked
out) I bought a kit with rubber plugs and rubber cement. Greased the
hole with cement, put the plug on the inserter tool, shoved it thru
form the outside and withdrew the tool. That repair and tire lasted
another 20K miles.

Same here. I've done 4 or 5 that way. Kits cost $3-10.
They didn't come with a rasp when I was buying them.

I think most home users skip a few steps.
The question is whether those skipped steps are crucial.

This video shows how to use (what they call) a plugpatch
in which they use the following tools and materials:

Tools:
A. Half-moon scraper
B. Carbide cutter == appears critical to use!
C. Tungsten conical rasp
D. Stitch roller

Materials:
a. liquid buffer
b. super valkarn g vulcanizing cement
c. sealiner
d. PW-3505 Plug Patch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-78JIOaEG6c
1. Remove offending object from the tire & inspect inside
2. Mark outside crossshatch and inside circle
3. Spray liquid buffer & scape with half-moon scraper
4. Carbide cutter to 500 RPM (very slow speed!)
5. Conical Tungsten rasp at 500RPM on inside circle
6. Vacuum or brush away buffing dust
7. Vulcanizing cement applied and dried to the tire & hole
8. Vulcanizing cement applied and dried to the plugpatch taper
9. Insert and pull wire until the patch dimples
10. Stich with a roller from the inside out of the patch
11. Restore overbuffed area with seal liner
12. Cut off the plug from the outside

Most homeowners seem to skip a *lot* of steps!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R8IZ_mPh_U

Danny D. wrote, on Wed, 09 Dec 2015 04:37:23 +0000:

Western States Mfg 800-831-4724 www.westernweld.com

Since vulcanizing cement is easy to come by, the
problem, it seems, for homeowners, is getting small
quantities of the two fluids:
a. buffer spray
b. inner liner sealer === this is the most critical

Also a couple of the basic tools are hard to come by:
A. Half-moon scraper
B. Carbide reamer === this is the most critical
C. Conical rasp

I called Western States at 800-831-4724, but they only
wholesale.

They suggested Bomgaards http://www.bomgaars.com but
they don't seem to have stores in California.

Given that the carbide reamer and the inner liner
sealer are the most critical tools, what would you
use for the carbide reamer?

NOTE: The spiral reamer that comes with most outside
plug kits doesn't look *anything* like the smooth
fluted carbide reamer in the videos, where the goal
is to smooth the cut edges of the belts I believe.

On 12/9/2015 11:45 AM, Danny D. wrote:
Danny D. wrote, on Wed, 09 Dec 2015 04:37:23 +0000:

Western States Mfg 800-831-4724 www.westernweld.com

Since vulcanizing cement is easy to come by, the
problem, it seems, for homeowners, is getting small
quantities of the two fluids:
a. buffer spray
b. inner liner sealer === this is the most critical

Also a couple of the basic tools are hard to come by:
A. Half-moon scraper
B. Carbide reamer === this is the most critical
C. Conical rasp

I called Western States at 800-831-4724, but they only
wholesale.

They suggested Bomgaards http://www.bomgaars.com but
they don't seem to have stores in California.

Given that the carbide reamer and the inner liner
sealer are the most critical tools, what would you
use for the carbide reamer?

NOTE: The spiral reamer that comes with most outside
plug kits doesn't look *anything* like the smooth
fluted carbide reamer in the videos, where the goal
is to smooth the cut edges of the belts I believe.


If your area has a Tech route salesman, everything you need
is on his truck:
http://www.techtirerepairs.com/

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wed, 09 Dec 2015 03:47:08 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Tue, 08 Dec 2015 17:48:46 -0700, Ashton Crusher
wrote:



The last time I repaired a tire ( punch thru of a screw which I yanked
out) I bought a kit with rubber plugs and rubber cement. Greased the
hole with cement, put the plug on the inserter tool, shoved it thru
form the outside and withdrew the tool. That repair and tire lasted
another 20K miles.

Same here. I've done 4 or 5 that way. Kits cost $3-10.
They didn't come with a rasp when I was buying them.

I think a lot of these "proper ways" are fine but are often simply
driven by lawsuits. Some gas station repaired a flat tire, the guy
then has an accident and blames the repair and gets paid "experts" to
testify it was all because of that improperly done repair. No
evidence that a "proper repair" would have changed anything of course.
The same reason some tire places insist the new tires HAVE to go on
the rear of the car leaving you with half worn out front tires on your
FWD car at the start of snow season.

On Tue, 08 Dec 2015 20:02:08 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

On 12/08/2015 03:57 PM, wrote:
It is a BMW whether it has 2 wheels or 4. Bimmer or Beemer are both
just *******izations of the same name.

Hard to get to either from Bayerische.
Bayerische.Motoren Werkes or smthing like that - and in Cherman that
is somehing like "Bey Emm Vey"

On Wed, 9 Dec 2015 04:09:33 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

clare wrote, on Tue, 08 Dec 2015 18:21:55 -0500:


Different brand tires of the same size, or tires with differing wear
amounts amount to the same thing. On AWD cars, and cars with dynamic
traction control, you ALWAYS replace tires 4 at a time

Again you seem to have everything wrong?

Who said *anything* about different brand tires of any size?

Are you just making this stuff up?

You're the *only* one talking about different brand tires on the
same vehicle. Nobody else would even *think* of doing that, except
as a ghetto maneuver.
I've seen all 3 many tomes - and even 2 tires with the same name
and size can be different. There are, for instance, at least 2 totally
different tires called Tiger PawTouring tires, available in the same
size range - with totally different tread and totally different
carcass - and different speed ratings.

Not a good idea to have one on one side and the other on the other
side, or one on the front and one on the back of any AWD or dynamic
traction control or whatever vehicle.

On Wed, 9 Dec 2015 04:20:56 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

clare wrote, on Tue, 08 Dec 2015 18:01:16 -0500:

Not so smart now, I see.

Heh heh ... you totally misunderstand the Dunning-Kruger effect.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect

Better to pay somebody to do it right (particularly with safety
related stuff like tires and brakes)

Heh heh ... that's the kind of advice people give who are *not*
on the home-repair or auto-tech groups.

I didn't ruin the tire repairing it.
You simply *assumed* that because you *wanted* to assume that.

I never said that.

You clearly have an *agenda* and that agenda is apparently to tell
us that we can't repair the simplest of things like tires.

Remind me to ask Oren to tell you how we select and buy and
wind our own garage door torsion springs some day. Or how we
compress the springs on our struts to replace them.

If you want the job done right, you do it yourself.
It's not that the pros don't *know* how to do the job right.
It's simply that we do it better because we delve into the details
and we care about the results.

We're smart that way.
I guess you have to be to drive a B#mmer. Any company that would
attach the engine mounts to the block with ALUMINUM BOLTS for crying
out loud. Friend's wifes BMW had the engine fall right out of it's
mounts when the bolts broke. Dealer cost to remove and replace those
bolts? Somrthing like $1600.

It took him almost 4 hours. It's his wifes's car - he hates it but
loves his wife. He's been a racer and car guy all his life, as well as
an airplane guy (pilot and builder)

On Wed, 9 Dec 2015 04:25:22 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

Ashton Crusher wrote, on Tue, 08 Dec 2015 17:48:46 -0700:

The last time I repaired a tire ( punch thru of a screw which I yanked
out) I bought a kit with rubber plugs and rubber cement. Greased the
hole with cement, put the plug on the inserter tool, shoved it thru
form the outside and withdrew the tool. That repair and tire lasted
another 20K miles.

There's a right way to do things, and a wrong way, and both work.
You did it the wrong way, and that's fine.
It's your tire, and I won't knock you for how you repaired it.
Both ways work.

For reference, here is a great video on the *right* way:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wi5uBUaMsrA


Here's my summary of what that video recommends, along with a bit
of research about where I can obtain the tools and chemicals at
a good price and in small single-use quantities:

TOOLS: (http://www.vampa.net/category_s/39.htm)
a. Tire repair awl
b. Half-moon scraper
c. Carbide bit reamer
d. Cone-shaped grinding wheel (5,000RPM)
e. PatchPlug
f. Stitching tool

FLUIDS: (http://www.vampa.net/category_s/36.htm)
a. Westernweld Inner Liner Pre-Buff Solution Redi-Buff BU32 or BU16S
b. Westernweld Self-Vulcanizing Fast Drying Cement SV8 or SV32
c. Westernweld Inner Liner Sealer RS8 or RS32
http://www.vampa.net/product_p/ww-rs32.htm

It's too late now, but I'm gonna call these guys tomorrow to see
what I can learn about what is inside those three chemicals above.

Western States Mfg 800-831-4724 www.westernweld.com
And to repair perhaps, on a bad year, ONE tire, you are going to
stock all that stuff (you will invest a C note pretty quickly) - and 2
years from now when you need it it will be all dried out from sitting
in your garage.

Sure you CAN do it - but does it make any sense - and should you -
when you can have it repaired free by someone who does it every day
and is insured if he screws up??

I fix virtually all my own stuff too - but even I draw limits

Danny D. wrote:
clare wrote, on Tue, 08 Dec 2015 18:01:16 -0500:

Not so smart now, I see.

Heh heh ... you totally misunderstand the Dunning-Kruger effect.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect

Better to pay somebody to do it right (particularly with safety
related stuff like tires and brakes)

Heh heh ... that's the kind of advice people give who are *not*
on the home-repair or auto-tech groups.

I didn't ruin the tire repairing it.
You simply *assumed* that because you *wanted* to assume that.

I never said that.

You clearly have an *agenda* and that agenda is apparently to tell
us that we can't repair the simplest of things like tires.

Remind me to ask Oren to tell you how we select and buy and
wind our own garage door torsion springs some day. Or how we
compress the springs on our struts to replace them.

If you want the job done right, you do it yourself.
It's not that the pros don't *know* how to do the job right.
It's simply that we do it better because we delve into the details
and we care about the results.

We're smart that way.

Sounds like you are better than pro(reap pro) Good for you.

clare wrote, on Wed, 09 Dec 2015 18:06:06 -0500:

And you just daid both scoots and cages were called Beemers

I corrected that typo as soon as I had seen it so you probably
didn't see my correction.

Besides, who cares what people who don't own them say?

It's the people who own them who care because they say
"my bimmer has been costing me a lot lately" and from
that we know it's the cage and not the bike.

Everyone else wouldn't know the difference, nor would
they care.

This just goes to show that people argue on the Usenet
things that bother *them*, because what a bimmer/beemer
is was never the topic here.

clare wrote, on Wed, 09 Dec 2015 17:58:18 -0500:

Hard to get to either from Bayerische.
Bayerische.Motoren Werkes or smthing like that - and in Cherman that
is somehing like "Bey Emm Vey"

It didn't come from Bayerische.
It came from BSA.
Did you read the reference?

clare wrote, on Wed, 09 Dec 2015 18:14:41 -0500:

Sure you CAN do it - but does it make any sense - and should you -
when you can have it repaired free by someone who does it every day
and is insured if he screws up??

I fix virtually all my own stuff too - but even I draw limits

It turns out that the minimum you need to fix your own holed tire
is the patchplug and something to scrape and stitch the inner
liner rubber away (plus lineslman's pliers which everyone has).
1. Patchplug
2. Scraper/stitcher

3. The vulcanizing cement is very easy to come by.

The two sort-of-nice-to-have things are harder to come by though:
4. The smooth flute-sided carbide reamer, and,
5. The inner liner sealer

So, I'm looking for a local source for both of those (#4 & #5).
If you have a good idea where to get them, let me know.

Ashton Crusher wrote, on Wed, 09 Dec 2015 15:27:41 -0700:

I think a lot of these "proper ways" are fine but are often simply
driven by lawsuits.

Certainly millions of tires have been plugged from the outside.
I even saw plenty of videos on how to repair slashed sidewalls.

But, still, this is a repair and tech group.

We can fix things any way we want; but we should, at the very least,
*know* how to do it right.

AMuzi wrote, on Wed, 09 Dec 2015 13:11:23 -0600:

If your area has a Tech route salesman, everything you need
is on his truck:
http://www.techtirerepairs.com/

Interesting.
Thank you for that reference.
That site has a lot of details for each fluid.

They have vulcanizing fluids and cements for example:
http://www.techtirerepairs.com/produ...luids-cements/

However, the vulcanizing cement is easy to come by; but the black
goopy final inner liner sealer (tar?) is the hardest to find on the street.

I think this is that sealer (Butyl Liner Repair Sealer):
http://www.techtirerepairs.com/produ...ments/739.html

It's made by Tech International, 200 E. Coshocton St., Johnstown, Ohio 43031,
740-967-9015, and also listed by Chemtrec 1-800-424-9300. So I will call
them tomorrow to ask where I can get small quantities and what is a suitable
substitute.

The ingredients on the MSDS don't tell me much:
50 to 100% solvent naphtha (petroleum blend), light

Does anyone on this newsgroup know of any commonly available substitute
for this black goopy inner liner sealer?

On Thu, 10 Dec 2015 00:14:43 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

clare wrote, on Wed, 09 Dec 2015 18:06:06 -0500:

And you just daid both scoots and cages were called Beemers

I corrected that typo as soon as I had seen it so you probably
didn't see my correction.

Besides, who cares what people who don't own them say?

It's the people who own them who care because they say
"my bimmer has been costing me a lot lately" and from
that we know it's the cage and not the bike.

Everyone else wouldn't know the difference, nor would
they care.

This just goes to show that people argue on the Usenet
things that bother *them*, because what a bimmer/beemer
is was never the topic here.

You sure got one thing right. Most bimmer owners WILL be saying "My
bimmer has been costing me a lot lately".

On Thu, 10 Dec 2015 00:15:22 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

clare wrote, on Wed, 09 Dec 2015 17:58:18 -0500:

Hard to get to either from Bayerische.
Bayerische.Motoren Werkes or smthing like that - and in Cherman that
is somehing like "Bey Emm Vey"

It didn't come from Bayerische.
It came from BSA.
Did you read the reference?
I saw it later. News Servers are notorious for latency.

On Thu, 10 Dec 2015 00:20:19 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

clare wrote, on Wed, 09 Dec 2015 18:14:41 -0500:

Sure you CAN do it - but does it make any sense - and should you -
when you can have it repaired free by someone who does it every day
and is insured if he screws up??

I fix virtually all my own stuff too - but even I draw limits

It turns out that the minimum you need to fix your own holed tire
is the patchplug and something to scrape and stitch the inner
liner rubber away (plus lineslman's pliers which everyone has).
1. Patchplug
2. Scraper/stitcher

3. The vulcanizing cement is very easy to come by.

The two sort-of-nice-to-have things are harder to come by though:
4. The smooth flute-sided carbide reamer, and,
5. The inner liner sealer

So, I'm looking for a local source for both of those (#4 & #5).
If you have a good idea where to get them, let me know.
I always bought mine from the "wagon jobber" who came to my place of
business every couple weeks to make sure I had enough valve stems,
patches, cement, balance weights, and other tire supplies. Most of my
working life that was REMA TIP TOP, and at one location it was Tech
Tire.

I always used the cement fast enough that it sisn't go bad in the can
- I'd never use it fast enough now to keep it fresh enough to be sure
it would always do the job properly..

For tubes I generally had "monkey grips" in stock and the clamp
required to use them. If they sit around too long they don't light and
burn properly so they don't vulcanize properly. That's the only way
to replace a bad valve stem too. (you don't throw away a tractor tire
tube just because the valve stem lets go, and you can't use a bolt in
stem without a vulcanized "hard spot".

clare wrote, on Wed, 09 Dec 2015 23:05:11 -0500:

I saw it later. News Servers are notorious for latency.

Yeah, I read my mail from top to bottom, threaded and subthreaded,
so I sometimes respond to mail that came later but to an earlier
subthread.

People accuse me of not reading all the posts, but, I do, but it
just takes time to get to each one of them to respond.

In short, for those who didn't read the history, it goes something
like this...

1. In the UK, BSA racers were known as beesers.
2. Then came along BMW, so, they called them beemers.
3. Then the cars started being sold in the USA, so they called 'em bimmers.

clare wrote, on Wed, 09 Dec 2015 23:04:08 -0500:

You sure got one thing right. Most bimmer owners WILL be saying "My
bimmer has been costing me a lot lately".

Actually, "my" bimmer is more than a dozen years old, so, I found it
funny that people consider bimmer owners haughty.

And, someone disparaged the beemer owners, but, as a group, they're
usually engineers who ride in all kinds of weather wearing Aerostitch
outfits where, when they go into a place to have lunch, they unzip
completely out of their outfit and, leaving their helmet and gloves
on the bike, actually, save for the boots, look pretty normal.

Watch how *different* a pack of Riceburners look, what with all that
colorful leather; or, heaven forbid, a gang of Harley riders when
they go into the bar, practically tattooed on the forehead with the
moniker of a bike manufacturer.

Three different worlds on two wheels.

clare wrote, on Wed, 09 Dec 2015 23:12:31 -0500:

I always bought mine from the "wagon jobber" who came to my place of
business every couple weeks to make sure I had enough valve stems,
patches, cement, balance weights, and other tire supplies. Most of my
working life that was REMA TIP TOP, and at one location it was Tech
Tire.

Did you use all three fluids?
They seem all to be very different.

1. The first fluid seems to be a strong solvent, which seems to *melt*
the rubber a bit, so that the half-moon scraper can scrape away
the surface.

2. The second fluid is the vulcanizing cement. I always thought that
vulcanizing required *heat*; but apparently not.

3. The third fluid is the last thing you apply, which, I believe is
critical, which is the *sealer* to prevent moisture and air from
seeping into the belts.

The first fluid, if I only knew what it was made out of, seems to be
an easy fluid to substitute using some strong solvent in the hardware
store.

That last fluid, which I think is the most critical, seems to be some
sort of "rubberized tar", which, to me, seems the most critical of all
the fluids, because you want to seal up all the damage you did with
all that scraping away of the inner liner skin.

On 12/10/2015 1:10 AM, Danny D. wrote:
clare wrote, on Wed, 09 Dec 2015 23:12:31 -0500:

I always bought mine from the "wagon jobber" who came to my place of
business every couple weeks to make sure I had enough valve stems,
patches, cement, balance weights, and other tire supplies. Most of my
working life that was REMA TIP TOP, and at one location it was Tech
Tire.

Did you use all three fluids?
They seem all to be very different.

1. The first fluid seems to be a strong solvent, which seems to *melt*
the rubber a bit, so that the half-moon scraper can scrape away
the surface.

2. The second fluid is the vulcanizing cement. I always thought that
vulcanizing required *heat*; but apparently not.

3. The third fluid is the last thing you apply, which, I believe is
critical, which is the *sealer* to prevent moisture and air from
seeping into the belts.

The first fluid, if I only knew what it was made out of, seems to be
an easy fluid to substitute using some strong solvent in the hardware
store.

That last fluid, which I think is the most critical, seems to be some
sort of "rubberized tar", which, to me, seems the most critical of all
the fluids, because you want to seal up all the damage you did with
all that scraping away of the inner liner skin.


The first is a cleaner (used to be MEK). You can't get a
decent bond until you remove ALL the dirt, wax, oil, crud
etc from the surface. Contamination spoils more patches than
any other fault.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 12/10/2015 12:05 AM, Danny D. wrote:
Watch how*different* a pack of Riceburners look, what with all that
colorful leather; or, heaven forbid, a gang of Harley riders when
they go into the bar, practically tattooed on the forehead with the
moniker of a bike manufacturer.


I look the same whether I'm riding one of my Suzukis or the Harley with
one exception. The Harley has a handy sissy bar to hang the helmet on
where with the Jap bikes i wear it.

I do not have any HD apparel; I just have the HD.

If I had a BMW, it would be the same. The closest I've gotten to
Aerostich is reading the catalog. I could replace my entire wardrobe for
the price of one of their Power Ranger suits.

rbowman wrote, on Thu, 10 Dec 2015 08:21:48 -0700:

I look the same whether I'm riding one of my Suzukis or the Harley with
one exception. The Harley has a handy sissy bar to hang the helmet on
where with the Jap bikes i wear it.

I do not have any HD apparel; I just have the HD.

If I had a BMW, it would be the same. The closest I've gotten to
Aerostich is reading the catalog. I could replace my entire wardrobe for
the price of one of their Power Ranger suits.

I agree the Aerostich suits are expensive, but their quality is phenomenal
and their customer service fantastic. They even let you ride for a month
to test out their suits (ask me how I know) for size and fit (which is
especially useful for big fat guys).

Also, they unzip beautifully so once you figure out how to get "in"
to them, they come off easily. Which was my point.

Most Harley riders do two things differently than other bikers:
1. They wear less-protective gear (as a statement?), and,
2. They wear HD-branded gear (as another statement?).

Most riceburners do two things differently than other bikers:
A. They wear colorful leathers, and,
B. They carry their helmets with them whenever they go into a joint

Most beemer riders do two things differently than other bikers:
a. They unzip their Aerostich such that they look normal in a joint
b. They brave weather and carry lots of stuff in those ugly saddlebags

Of course, these are generalizations borne out of experience, but,
you know what I'm talking about.