On Wednesday, December 17, 2014 1:11:48 PM UTC-5, Danny D. wrote:
CRNG wrote, on Mon, 15 Dec 2014 04:17:46 -0600:

That doesn't look good at all.

I did have the battery checked:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7543/1...7ae3c7de_c.jpg

It's from 2010 & it has a slight bulge (probably froze at some point?).

The parts guy instantly pronounced it dead on sight, but, I had charged
it up the night before on a 6-amp charger and it seemed to be taking
2 amps without issue and holding a charge under the open-circuit
no-load test of a voltmeter.

I had the Kragen/O'Reilly guy test it under load on his battery tester,
which took about 10 minutes, and the report came back as "Good", but
that the battery was on its last "quarter of life".

Given that the battery is 4 years old, I'm sure it *is* on its last
quarter but I asked if they input the date, and they said no, so,
the machine must be evaluating the dynamics of the battery under load.

It has an easy life though. It just sits there and starts the generator
once a week, and gets charged for 20 minutes to repay it for its
effort.

It's being charged/maintained 24/7 by the generator controller using
AC line power. It doesn't need the generator running to charge it.
Four years old, on the last quarter of it's life per the load test,
it's already been taken out, critical need in a power outage, seems like
an easy decision to me.

On Wed, 17 Dec 2014 18:17:42 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Wed, 17 Dec 2014 08:46:35 -0500:

I doubt that a dead rat has enough poison
in it to kill the next larger animal.

I picked up this little guy inside the garage a few days ago:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7488/1...c3ca8baf_b.jpg

I put gloves on, and picked him up.
He was too sick to run away.

Dunno if he ate any of the rat poison inside the drawers in
the garage, or not.

I didn't have the heart to kill him outright, so, I put him
inside a hollow log outside. I checked today, and he was gone.

After the damage the cute little buggers did around here the last
couple of years I'd have dispatched him.
$1500 damage under the hood of my wife's car in one shot. And that's
just for starters.
The squirrels are even worse.

trader_4 wrote, on Wed, 17 Dec 2014 11:58:44 -0800:

It's being charged/maintained 24/7 by the generator controller using
AC line power. It doesn't need the generator running to charge it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but, I think the battery is *only* charged
by the generator (not by line voltage).

I don't see a ~120V to ~14V inverter anywhere.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7518/1...5313e933_b.jpg

Ralph Mowery wrote, on Wed, 17 Dec 2014 14:17:02 -0500:

Unless a battery has an internal short almost all batteries will show full
voltage without a load. The open circuit voltage tells almost nothing
unless the battery is totally bad or dead.

I agree that, unless one or more cells are shorted, or if the battery
will no longer take any charge whatsoever, an open circuit no-load voltage
test with a DMM won't tell you much.

That is exactly why I brought it to them, to test under load for
at least 10 or 15 minutes.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7543/1...7ae3c7de_c.jpg

It tested GOOD. They would have failed it if it tested bad, as they
printed a copy of the test report, so, it clearly was in the lower
range of good.

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Wed, 17 Dec 2014 13:46:33 -0500:

we'll decide if he's old enough to pull spark plugs.

Speaking of spark plugs, I finally got the boots off.
The originals, which were in great shape, are Champion
RC12YC, so I bought the correct spark plugs after all
(assuming the old plugs are the correct size).
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7534/1...b9347cb2_b.jpg

It wasn't the rubber that was holding it on, but it was
the rubber which was acting like a spring when I was
pulling very hard and then letting go. Unfortunately the
spark plug removal tool was useless because it wasn't
bent right and the ends are far too thick to be useful:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7481/1...95e8cac9_b.jpg

I think it was only the metal clip that was holding on to
the spark plug like you can't believe. It was as clean as
new inside, so, there was no corrosion visible anywhere.

So that it's easier, next time, to remove them. I spurted
a dollop of electrical dialectric grease into the boot,
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7517/1...619b5404_b.jpg

I also lightly covered the spark plug threads with gray
anti-seize, and carefully replaced the spark plug, knowing
that anti-seize is often not recommended and understanding
why (having read the cautionary reports of mis-torque & misfire).

I then disconnected the generator's breakers to the house,
and switched the generator to "Manual", and it started up
smoothly and quite nicely, purring like a kitten. Much
better than before.

That felt good!

Now all I have left to do is fix the damaged wires.

Danny D. wrote, on Wed, 17 Dec 2014 18:02:44 +0000:

If the plugs do just pull straight out, this will give me
the leverage, minimizing the risk to the "wire" from the
tremendous force that is needed.

BTW, the plugs were surprisingly in great shape.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7534/1...b9347cb2_b.jpg

What matters to a plug, first and foremost, is a sharp edge,
which concentrates lines of force. The central electrode
was still (almost) as sharp as new.

What matters next is the gap, which was still around 30
thousandths of an inch.

The central insulator was carbon'd up, which is to be
expected, and not at all greasy or damaged.

Overall, there was no reason to replace the plugs, but,
I replaced them anyway since I already had them in hand.

On Thursday, December 18, 2014 6:17:31 AM UTC-5, Danny D. wrote:
trader_4 wrote, on Wed, 17 Dec 2014 11:58:44 -0800:

It's being charged/maintained 24/7 by the generator controller using
AC line power. It doesn't need the generator running to charge it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but, I think the battery is *only* charged
by the generator (not by line voltage).

To only charge it with the battery would be a bad design. It's
typically charged by both AC and the generator, if the generator is
running.



I don't see a ~120V to ~14V inverter anywhere.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7518/1...5313e933_b.jpg

As I said before, it's part of the control electronics. If you're
that interested, go find a schematic or read the repair/operation
manual.

On Thursday, December 18, 2014 6:20:54 AM UTC-5, Danny D. wrote:
Ralph Mowery wrote, on Wed, 17 Dec 2014 14:17:02 -0500:

Unless a battery has an internal short almost all batteries will show full
voltage without a load. The open circuit voltage tells almost nothing
unless the battery is totally bad or dead.

I agree that, unless one or more cells are shorted, or if the battery
will no longer take any charge whatsoever, an open circuit no-load voltage
test with a DMM won't tell you much.

That is exactly why I brought it to them, to test under load for
at least 10 or 15 minutes.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7543/1...7ae3c7de_c.jpg

It tested GOOD. They would have failed it if it tested bad, as they
printed a copy of the test report, so, it clearly was in the lower
range of good.

I'd say it tested bad. They told you based on the load test that
it was on the last 25% of it's life, which means it has reduced
capacity and they are *guessing* that's about how much life it has
left. You also know it's 4 years old. But it's your generator, house
and battery.

On 12/18/2014 6:47 AM, Danny D. wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote, on Wed, 17 Dec 2014 13:46:33 -0500:

we'll decide if he's old enough to pull spark plugs.

Speaking of spark plugs, I finally got the boots off.
The originals, which were in great shape, are Champion
RC12YC, so I bought the correct spark plugs after all
(assuming the old plugs are the correct size).
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7534/1...b9347cb2_b.jpg

It wasn't the rubber that was holding it on, but it was
the rubber which was acting like a spring when I was
pulling very hard and then letting go. Unfortunately the
spark plug removal tool was useless because it wasn't
bent right and the ends are far too thick to be useful:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7481/1...95e8cac9_b.jpg

I think it was only the metal clip that was holding on to
the spark plug like you can't believe. It was as clean as
new inside, so, there was no corrosion visible anywhere.

So that it's easier, next time, to remove them. I spurted
a dollop of electrical dialectric grease into the boot,
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7517/1...619b5404_b.jpg

I also lightly covered the spark plug threads with gray
anti-seize, and carefully replaced the spark plug, knowing
that anti-seize is often not recommended and understanding
why (having read the cautionary reports of mis-torque & misfire).

I then disconnected the generator's breakers to the house,
and switched the generator to "Manual", and it started up
smoothly and quite nicely, purring like a kitten. Much
better than before.

That felt good!

Now all I have left to do is fix the damaged wires.

I noted the picture of the spark plugs, old and
new. If the old ones were the correct, then the
new ones are a great match. Some times when they
won't release, twisting the spark plug boot will
help break them free. I think the "never sieze"
on the threads is excellent idea. I always grease
or neversieze mine on lawn mowers, etc.

Runs better is encouraging. I'm pleased for you.
And maybe your grand son will learn that Gramps
does fix things, and he can enjoy his 5 AM video.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Danny D." wrote in news:m6uesa$c5n$1@dont-
email.me:

Now all I have left to do is fix the damaged wires.


Piece of cake. It should only take you a week, 200 posts and 50 photos.

You are so entertaining.

Let us know how it goes.

ZW

On 12/18/2014 8:36 AM, Zak W wrote:
"Danny D." wrote in news:m6uesa$c5n$1@dont-
email.me:

Now all I have left to do is fix the damaged wires.


Piece of cake. It should only take you a week, 200 posts and 50 photos.

You are so entertaining.

Let us know how it goes.

ZW


Zakky would also like pictures of your wife
and grand son in swim suits.

Me, I'd like pictures of the blue wire when
repaired. I'm a nerd.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Thursday, December 18, 2014 6:47:47 AM UTC-5, Danny D. wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote, on Wed, 17 Dec 2014 13:46:33 -0500:

we'll decide if he's old enough to pull spark plugs.

Speaking of spark plugs, I finally got the boots off.
The originals, which were in great shape, are Champion
RC12YC, so I bought the correct spark plugs after all
(assuming the old plugs are the correct size).
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7534/1...b9347cb2_b.jpg

It wasn't the rubber that was holding it on, but it was
the rubber which was acting like a spring when I was
pulling very hard and then letting go. Unfortunately the
spark plug removal tool was useless because it wasn't
bent right and the ends are far too thick to be useful:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7481/1...95e8cac9_b.jpg

I think it was only the metal clip that was holding on to
the spark plug like you can't believe. It was as clean as
new inside, so, there was no corrosion visible anywhere.

So that it's easier, next time, to remove them. I spurted
a dollop of electrical dialectric grease into the boot,
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7517/1...619b5404_b.jpg

I also lightly covered the spark plug threads with gray
anti-seize, and carefully replaced the spark plug, knowing
that anti-seize is often not recommended and understanding
why (having read the cautionary reports of mis-torque & misfire).

I then disconnected the generator's breakers to the house,
and switched the generator to "Manual", and it started up
smoothly and quite nicely, purring like a kitten. Much
better than before.

That felt good!

Now all I have left to do is fix the damaged wires.

Given that you ran it with virtually no oil and what was in there
was probably molasses, I'd do another oil change after running it
for an hour or so.

On 12/18/2014 9:01 AM, trader_4 wrote:
Given that you ran it with virtually no oil and what was in there
was probably molasses, I'd do another oil change after running it
for an hour or so.


If nothing else, pull the dipstick and see
what the oil looks like.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

trader_4 wrote, on Thu, 18 Dec 2014 04:29:58 -0800:

As I said before, it's part of the control electronics. If you're
that interested, go find a schematic or read the repair/operation
manual.

I have a schematic but I didn't read it as I'm pretty sure, just
by talking to Generac, that it's charged by the generator only.
But, I could be wrong - but I'm not that interested as the system
is working just fine and all I need to do is fix the one frayed
wire and I'm done.

BTW, I mistakenly said "inverter" in the previous post, when I
had meant "power supply" (since it's AC to DC, and not DC to AC).

trader_4 wrote, on Thu, 18 Dec 2014 04:33:22 -0800:

I'd say it tested bad. They told you based on the load test that
it was on the last 25% of it's life, which means it has reduced
capacity and they are *guessing* that's about how much life it has
left. You also know it's 4 years old. But it's your generator, house
and battery.

Fair enough.

If it were a critical application, I'd worry more. I can live without
power when it goes out (like very many people do). If I "really" want
to start the generator, I can "jump it" from my car.

So, it's not a mission critical situation if the battery doesn't
start the generator the next time the power goes out.

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Thu, 18 Dec 2014 08:30:05 -0500:

Some times when they won't release, twisting the
spark plug boot will help break them free.

Rest assured I twisted and twisted. You can't get even
180 degrees though, due to the very short high-tension
wire, so, it's a situation where you're limited.

Given that the metal-to-metal connection is circular,
and that both metals are nearly pristine showing no
signs of corrosion whatsoever, I think it was just
stuck on tightly, metal to metal.

I think the "never sieze" on the threads is excellent
idea. I always grease or neversieze mine on lawn mowers,
etc.

There are two schools of thought on the never seize.
One school of thought is that it prevents corrosion (by
being the sacrificial anode), while the other school of
thought is that careless people will overtorque and even
more careless people will end up shorting out the electrode
due to the excess of never seize squeezing into the cylinder
itself.

Knowing all that, I'm careful when I use it.

Zak W wrote, on Thu, 18 Dec 2014 13:36:03 +0000:

Piece of cake.
It should only take you a week, 200 posts and 50 photos.

trader_4 wrote, on Thu, 18 Dec 2014 06:01:42 -0800:

Given that you ran it with virtually no oil and what was in there
was probably molasses, I'd do another oil change after running it
for an hour or so.

I was thinking about that.
The oil I changed, what little was left, was like mud.

I put in Mobile 1, but it's only a quart and a half, so, it's not
a bad idea to run another change in an hour or two of service.

On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 18:26:51 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Thu, 18 Dec 2014 08:30:05 -0500:

Some times when they won't release, twisting the
spark plug boot will help break them free.

Rest assured I twisted and twisted. You can't get even
180 degrees though, due to the very short high-tension
wire, so, it's a situation where you're limited.

Given that the metal-to-metal connection is circular,
and that both metals are nearly pristine showing no
signs of corrosion whatsoever, I think it was just
stuck on tightly, metal to metal.

I think the "never sieze" on the threads is excellent
idea. I always grease or neversieze mine on lawn mowers,
etc.

There are two schools of thought on the never seize.
One school of thought is that it prevents corrosion (by
being the sacrificial anode), while the other school of
thought is that careless people will overtorque and even
more careless people will end up shorting out the electrode
due to the excess of never seize squeezing into the cylinder
itself.

Knowing all that, I'm careful when I use it.
I generally put on just enough to colour the threads on one side.

clare wrote, on Thu, 18 Dec 2014 17:03:27 -0500:

I generally put on just enough to colour the threads on one side.

That's probably just about right.

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Thu, 18 Dec 2014 09:38:18 -0500:

If nothing else, pull the dipstick and see
what the oil looks like.

That's a good idea. It looks good. I will check it in a few
months, and begin to change the oil more religiously.

On 12/18/2014 7:29 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, December 18, 2014 6:17:31 AM UTC-5, Danny D. wrote:
trader_4 wrote, on Wed, 17 Dec 2014 11:58:44 -0800:

It's being charged/maintained 24/7 by the generator controller using
AC line power. It doesn't need the generator running to charge it.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but, I think the battery is *only* charged
by the generator (not by line voltage).
To only charge it with the battery would be a bad design. It's
typically charged by both AC and the generator, if the generator is
running.


I don't see a ~120V to ~14V inverter anywhere.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7518/1...5313e933_b.jpg
As I said before, it's part of the control electronics. If you're
that interested, go find a schematic or read the repair/operation
manual.
As Trader correctly states, the battery is charged whenever the main AC
power to the generatyor is present, not when the generator is running.

In fact, long periods of the generator running can result in a low /
dead battery the next time you need it to restart the generator.

Putting a new battery in after 4 years is, as someone else stated, a
NO-BRAINER. Running a standby generator with an old battery, oil sludge,
dirty filters, etc. just makes absolutely no sense at all to me........

On 12/18/2014 9:08 PM, Danny D. wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote, on Thu, 18 Dec 2014 09:38:18 -0500:

If nothing else, pull the dipstick and see
what the oil looks like.
That's a good idea. It looks good. I will check it in a few
months, and begin to change the oil more religiously.
Once a year is all that it should require unless is runs a lot in
providing backup power. Stay with the Mobil 1 and it should look darker
a year later but not any more viscous. I have found it this way 8 years
in a row.

On 12/18/2014 9:08 PM, Danny D. wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote, on Thu, 18 Dec 2014 09:38:18 -0500:

If nothing else, pull the dipstick and see
what the oil looks like.

That's a good idea. It looks good. I will check it in a few
months, and begin to change the oil more religiously.


Jewish: Your oil should last eight days. Thank you,
G-d for draining our old oil out of Egypt.
Catholic: Only a priest can add oil to your machine.
Jehovas Witness: We'll send two nice young men with
watchtower tracts to add oil for you.
Pentacostal: We'll have your machine oiled up, and
dancing in the aisles.
Quaker: We'll send a bearded man in a dark suit to
check and add Quaker State oil to your generator.
Mormon: Any worthy Melchizidek priesthood holder can
add as much oil as needed.
Muslim: We'll sell you more motor oil, but you will
later be required to convert to Islam.



--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Smarty wrote, on Thu, 18 Dec 2014 21:45:09 -0500:

As Trader correctly states, the battery is charged whenever the main AC
power to the generatyor is present, not when the generator is running.

I just re-read the manual and there's nothing, either way, about
the charging circuit for the battery.

It should be described in the weekly "exercise" or "battery maintenance"
sections, but it's not.

Also, if there is a charging circuit, it's not obvious in the schematic
diagrams. If there is the requisite 240VAC to ~15VDC "charger", that's
not obvious in the machine either - as the control circuitry is pretty
simple (one small circuit board for the entire generator).

So, while I "doubt" that the battery is charged by a power supply
connected to the 240VAC (or even the 120VAC half), the question deserves
a definitive answer, which I will get from Generac and report back.

Smarty wrote, on Thu, 18 Dec 2014 21:53:49 -0500:

Once a year is all that it should require unless is runs a lot in
providing backup power.

In general, when there is no rain, the power is stable.

When there is rain, the power goes out once a month (on average).

Of course, it has gone out three times in December alone, so that's
just an average.

I left a message at Generac for them to tell me whether the battery
is charged by the AC mains or by the generator running weekly for
20 minutes.

"Danny D." wrote in message
...
Also, if there is a charging circuit, it's not obvious in the schematic
diagrams. If there is the requisite 240VAC to ~15VDC "charger", that's
not obvious in the machine either - as the control circuitry is pretty
simple (one small circuit board for the entire generator).

So, while I "doubt" that the battery is charged by a power supply
connected to the 240VAC (or even the 120VAC half), the question deserves
a definitive answer, which I will get from Generac and report back.

I can't say about yours, but of all things I bought a 5 kw generator several
years ago that has a nicad type battery. It came with a wall cube type
charger that I have to plug into the wall to give a slow charge to that
battery.

I had another 5 kw generator that would not start so that is the reason for
the other one. Finally got it started as the carborator was gunked up. As
I never started or put gas in the new generator , I just took the battery
out of the generator and put it in storage. I do charge it every so often
from the wall cube.



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com

On Friday, December 19, 2014 6:18:54 PM UTC-5, Danny D. wrote:
Smarty wrote, on Thu, 18 Dec 2014 21:45:09 -0500:

As Trader correctly states, the battery is charged whenever the main AC
power to the generatyor is present, not when the generator is running.

I just re-read the manual and there's nothing, either way, about
the charging circuit for the battery.

It should be described in the weekly "exercise" or "battery maintenance"
sections, but it's not.

Also, if there is a charging circuit, it's not obvious in the schematic
diagrams. If there is the requisite 240VAC to ~15VDC "charger", that's
not obvious in the machine either - as the control circuitry is pretty
simple (one small circuit board for the entire generator).

So, while I "doubt" that the battery is charged by a power supply
connected to the 240VAC (or even the 120VAC half), the question deserves
a definitive answer, which I will get from Generac and report back.

You have a model # for the generator?

On Fri, 19 Dec 2014 23:18:29 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

Smarty wrote, on Thu, 18 Dec 2014 21:45:09 -0500:

As Trader correctly states, the battery is charged whenever the main AC
power to the generatyor is present, not when the generator is running.

I just re-read the manual and there's nothing, either way, about
the charging circuit for the battery.

It should be described in the weekly "exercise" or "battery maintenance"
sections, but it's not.

Also, if there is a charging circuit, it's not obvious in the schematic
diagrams. If there is the requisite 240VAC to ~15VDC "charger", that's
not obvious in the machine either - as the control circuitry is pretty
simple (one small circuit board for the entire generator).

So, while I "doubt" that the battery is charged by a power supply
connected to the 240VAC (or even the 120VAC half), the question deserves
a definitive answer, which I will get from Generac and report back.
Very easy to get a definitive answer. Connect your volt meter. What
is the reading??? Above 12.2 volts??? then it is being charged without
the engine running.

trader_4 wrote, on Fri, 19 Dec 2014 15:41:58 -0800:

You have a model # for the generator?

Yes. It's the Generac 09067-9 (often called 9067-9).

It's a built-in 8KWH, 66 amp 240/120 generator with the
transfer switch. Runs on propane (or natural gas).

On 12/19/2014 9:19 PM, wrote:
So, while I "doubt" that the battery is charged by a power supply
connected to the 240VAC (or even the 120VAC half), the question deserves
a definitive answer, which I will get from Generac and report back.
Very easy to get a definitive answer. Connect your volt meter. What
is the reading??? Above 12.2 volts??? then it is being charged without
the engine running.


I thought a full charged was 12.6 volts.
Did you mean to type 13.2?

-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Friday, December 19, 2014 9:19:21 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 19 Dec 2014 23:18:29 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

Smarty wrote, on Thu, 18 Dec 2014 21:45:09 -0500:

As Trader correctly states, the battery is charged whenever the main AC
power to the generatyor is present, not when the generator is running.

I just re-read the manual and there's nothing, either way, about
the charging circuit for the battery.

It should be described in the weekly "exercise" or "battery maintenance"
sections, but it's not.

Also, if there is a charging circuit, it's not obvious in the schematic
diagrams. If there is the requisite 240VAC to ~15VDC "charger", that's
not obvious in the machine either - as the control circuitry is pretty
simple (one small circuit board for the entire generator).

So, while I "doubt" that the battery is charged by a power supply
connected to the 240VAC (or even the 120VAC half), the question deserves
a definitive answer, which I will get from Generac and report back.
Very easy to get a definitive answer. Connect your volt meter. What
is the reading??? Above 12.2 volts??? then it is being charged without
the engine running.

A fully charged battery is 12.6V, without anything connected. If he's
seeing significantly higher than that, then I agree it's definitive that
it's being charged. However if he sees just around 12.6V, I don't think
it necessarily proves it one way or the other. Assuming it has a
charger/maintainer of some kind, we don't know how exactly they work.
IDK even how a BatteryTender, which has some smarts in it, works. It
allegedly only charges as much as necessary, so it could monitor, test,
and you'd only see the voltage raise during periods when it's actually
charging.

As to Danny's generator, I tried to find a service manual for it, but
couldn't find anything. The experience I have with Generac is a similar
generator that was built about 10 years ago. It definitely had battery
charging circuits that were driven off both the line AC and the generator,
if running. While trying to fix that one, I had the service manual.

I would think that's how Danny's would work too, for obvious
reasons. But IDK and you'd need a service manual, schematic, etc to know
for sure. I'm not sure I'd even trust the Generac people, as you'd think
a help line would have obvious answers like that at their finger tips.
They couldn't even tell him whether the spark plug cables were "bolted"
on to the spark plugs, so I wouldn't put much faith in them.

If I was D, I'd obtain the service manual, not just the operating manual,
for future reference.

On Sat, 20 Dec 2014 06:04:39 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 12/19/2014 9:19 PM, wrote:
So, while I "doubt" that the battery is charged by a power supply
connected to the 240VAC (or even the 120VAC half), the question deserves
a definitive answer, which I will get from Generac and report back.
Very easy to get a definitive answer. Connect your volt meter. What
is the reading??? Above 12.2 volts??? then it is being charged without
the engine running.


I thought a full charged was 12.6 volts.
Did you mean to type 13.2?

-
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
Yes, 13.2 12.6 is the theoretical open circuit voltage of a lead acid
battery, but some alloys are slightly higher. 12.7 or 12.8 is quite
common on a searled recombinent absorbed glass mat battery. Any kind
of charge at all will wxcede 13.2 volts.

In article ,
"Danny D." wrote:

Smarty wrote, on Thu, 18 Dec 2014 21:45:09 -0500:

As Trader correctly states, the battery is charged whenever the main AC
power to the generatyor is present, not when the generator is running.

I just re-read the manual and there's nothing, either way, about
the charging circuit for the battery.

It should be described in the weekly "exercise" or "battery maintenance"
sections, but it's not.

Also, if there is a charging circuit, it's not obvious in the schematic
diagrams. If there is the requisite 240VAC to ~15VDC "charger", that's
not obvious in the machine either - as the control circuitry is pretty
simple (one small circuit board for the entire generator).

So, while I "doubt" that the battery is charged by a power supply
connected to the 240VAC (or even the 120VAC half), the question deserves
a definitive answer, which I will get from Generac and report back.

Danny-

On page 12 of the manual, the diagram at the left side of the page shows
a Battery Charge winding connected to a rectifier. One side of the
winding goes to the Control Logic PCB. Output of the rectifier goes to
a fuse, and then to the battery. There is also a connection to the
Control Logic PCB via SW2A.

So the battery is apparently charged when the generator is running. It
is not clear if it is also charged through one of the three transfer
switch connections. SW2 may be an option you can set to allow that, but
I did not see any mention in the manual.

Fred

On 12/20/2014 2:16 PM, Fred McKenzie wrote:


So the battery is apparently charged when the generator is running. It
is not clear if it is also charged through one of the three transfer
switch connections. SW2 may be an option you can set to allow that, but
I did not see any mention in the manual.

Fred


FWIW, my 5-year-old 16kW Generac charges the battery from grid power.
(The charging circuit failed two years ago and I had to replace the $80 charging board.)

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Sat, 20 Dec 2014 06:04:39 -0500:

I thought a full charged was 12.6 volts.
Did you mean to type 13.2?

Technically, 13.8 volts is the open-circuit voltage of a battery,
but, there are reasons for it to vary by a volt or so either way.

clare wrote, on Sat, 20 Dec 2014 12:57:39 -0500:

Yes, 13.2 12.6 is the theoretical open circuit voltage of a lead acid
battery, but some alloys are slightly higher.

I thought it was 13.8, but, we're both saying the same thing otherwise.

trader_4 wrote, on Sat, 20 Dec 2014 04:40:48 -0800:

If I was D, I'd obtain the service manual, not just the operating manual,
for future reference.

I would too, if I knew where to find it.

Fred McKenzie wrote, on Sat, 20 Dec 2014 14:16:45 -0500:

So the battery is apparently charged when the generator is running. It
is not clear if it is also charged through one of the three transfer
switch connections. SW2 may be an option you can set to allow that, but
I did not see any mention in the manual.

Hi Fred,
Thanks for confirming that information from the schematic in the
owners manual.

For others to see that schematic, I've converted the entire 32
page PDF manual to JPG using the following Linux command:
$ convert -density 300 generac_9067-9.pdf generac_9067-9.jpg

While all 32 pages were uploaded, the specific page 12 Fred speaks
about is located at the URL below (rotated sideways for convenience):
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7540/1...beb6437a_b.jpg

On 12/20/2014 5:22 PM, Danny D. wrote:
Fred McKenzie wrote, on Sat, 20 Dec 2014 14:16:45 -0500:

So the battery is apparently charged when the generator is running. It
is not clear if it is also charged through one of the three transfer
switch connections. SW2 may be an option you can set to allow that, but
I did not see any mention in the manual.
Hi Fred,
Thanks for confirming that information from the schematic in the
owners manual.

For others to see that schematic, I've converted the entire 32
page PDF manual to JPG using the following Linux command:
$ convert -density 300 generac_9067-9.pdf generac_9067-9.jpg

While all 32 pages were uploaded, the specific page 12 Fred speaks
about is located at the URL below (rotated sideways for convenience):
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7540/1...beb6437a_b.jpg

Apparently some Generac models do charge the battery when running and
others do not. My manual states:

The generator is equipped with a battery trickle charger that is active
when the unit is set up for automatic operation. With the battery
installed and utility power source voltage available to the transfer
switch, the battery receives a trickle charge while the engine is not
running, to prevent self-discharge. The trickle charger is designed to
help extend the life of the battery by maintaining the battery when the
unit is not running. The trickle charge feature cannot be used to
recharge a discharged battery. No battery charging occurs when the
generator is providing power."

Sorry I assumed that your 8KW unit charges the same as my 7KW unit.
Apparently it does not.