On Saturday, December 20, 2014 5:22:56 PM UTC-5, Danny D. wrote:
Fred McKenzie wrote, on Sat, 20 Dec 2014 14:16:45 -0500:

So the battery is apparently charged when the generator is running. It
is not clear if it is also charged through one of the three transfer
switch connections. SW2 may be an option you can set to allow that, but
I did not see any mention in the manual.

Hi Fred,
Thanks for confirming that information from the schematic in the
owners manual.

For others to see that schematic, I've converted the entire 32
page PDF manual to JPG using the following Linux command:
$ convert -density 300 generac_9067-9.pdf generac_9067-9.jpg

While all 32 pages were uploaded, the specific page 12 Fred speaks
about is located at the URL below (rotated sideways for convenience):
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7540/1...beb6437a_b.jpg

I agree with Fred, it's not clear from the schematic what's going on.
But like he says, SW2 is involved in the schematic. It's also listed
in the table there with a 3 word description "set .... switch". I
can't make out the middle word. Presumably on the original that you
have you can read it?

Smarty wrote, on Sat, 20 Dec 2014 18:30:19 -0500:

Sorry I assumed that your 8KW unit charges the same as my 7KW unit.
Apparently it does not.

I like how yours works better than how mine does.

Does yours also "exercise" itself once a week for about 20 minutes?

Mine does that, ostensibly, to keep the battery charged, among
other things.

In article ,
trader_4 wrote:

It's also listed
in the table there with a 3 word description "set .... switch".

It says "SET EXERCISE SWITCH".

SW2B connects transformer T1 to the Control Logic PCB. T1 output might
be rectified and used to charge the battery while on shore power, but
does not seem to be documented.

Fred

On Sunday, December 21, 2014 1:18:23 PM UTC-5, Fred McKenzie wrote:
In article ,
trader_4 wrote:

It's also listed
in the table there with a 3 word description "set .... switch".

It says "SET EXERCISE SWITCH".

SW2B connects transformer T1 to the Control Logic PCB. T1 output might
be rectified and used to charge the battery while on shore power, but
does not seem to be documented.

Fred

I see how one wire goes from that switch to the Xformer, another wire
to the control board, another to the battery. I can't make out from the
pic what kind of switch it even is, single pole, double throw? It would
be bizarre for it to connect the Xformer to the battery, as there is
no rectification there, ie it's AC. And "set exercise" would seem to
mean that all it does is enable the weekly startup, or somehow let you
program how often it does that.

IDK what's going on, but from what I see, I agree it's not clear that
it does maintain the battery. I'd say more likely it doesn't at this
point, but then who knows. You would think having the generator maintain
the battery would be a standard feature, important to have, easy to implement,
etc. So, I would think they would all likely have it, but as I said,
all I know is what you do, ie that some of them definitely have it. D's
is an older one. The one I have experience with is under 10 years old.

It really doesn't matter, more of a curiousity at this point.

On 12/21/2014 10:27 AM, Danny D. wrote:
Smarty wrote, on Sat, 20 Dec 2014 18:30:19 -0500:

Sorry I assumed that your 8KW unit charges the same as my 7KW unit.
Apparently it does not.
I like how yours works better than how mine does.

Does yours also "exercise" itself once a week for about 20 minutes?

Mine does that, ostensibly, to keep the battery charged, among
other things.

Mine does a weekly exercise lasting about 13 minutes. The transfer switch is not tested nor is the generator put under load, so the exercise mostly is about the engine starting and running.

trader_4 wrote, on Sun, 21 Dec 2014 10:45:21 -0800:

more of a curiousity at this point.

I have a call in to Generac (left a message), so, hopefully on
Monday, they'll let us know how the battery is charged.

I wish it would say so in the manual.

If it matters, here are the 32 pages of the manual.
Page 1 = https://www.flickr.com/photos/98287134@N02/15878930218/
Page 32 = https://www.flickr.com/photos/98287134@N02/15444042424/

On 12/21/2014 07:58 PM, Danny D. wrote:
trader_4 wrote, on Sun, 21 Dec 2014 10:45:21 -0800:

more of a curiousity at this point.

I have a call in to Generac (left a message), so, hopefully on
Monday, they'll let us know how the battery is charged.


With this being the week of Festivus, good luck with that...LOL.

What you could do is open the hood on your generator and measure/record the battery voltage.

Then disconnect the ground lead of the battery, wait 24 hours, and measure the battery voltage again.

If the battery voltage drops after being disconnected from the generator for 24 hours, the generator obviously has a grid-powered charging circuit.

Capeesh?

O Wren wrote, on Mon, 22 Dec 2014 08:41:32 -0500:

With this being the week of Festivus, good luck with that...LOL.

What you could do is open the hood on your generator and measure/record
the battery voltage.

Then disconnect the ground lead of the battery, wait 24 hours, and
measure the battery voltage again.

If the battery voltage drops after being disconnected from the generator
for 24 hours, the generator obviously has a grid-powered charging
circuit.

Capeesh?

Is this "Oren"?

Anyway, I was dead wrong and all you guys were right (as usual).
I called Generac at 888-436-3722x2(consumer)x2(existing product)x2
(permanent)x3(all other)...wait...

The lady who answered said instantly that all the built-in generators
are charged from the "T1" wire from the house.

She said the "T1" wire was blue or white and went in behind the
control panel. She didn't know the difference between 120VAC and 12VDC,
but still, she was sure that the T1 wire fed the battery.

She said when it exercises, it doesn't generate any power.

So, based on that, I was dead wrong.
The built-in generator charges the battery from the mains.
I was wrong.

On Monday, December 22, 2014 2:11:06 PM UTC-5, Danny D. wrote:
O Wren wrote, on Mon, 22 Dec 2014 08:41:32 -0500:

With this being the week of Festivus, good luck with that...LOL.

What you could do is open the hood on your generator and measure/record
the battery voltage.

Then disconnect the ground lead of the battery, wait 24 hours, and
measure the battery voltage again.

If the battery voltage drops after being disconnected from the generator
for 24 hours, the generator obviously has a grid-powered charging
circuit.

Capeesh?

Is this "Oren"?

Anyway, I was dead wrong and all you guys were right (as usual).
I called Generac at 888-436-3722x2(consumer)x2(existing product)x2
(permanent)x3(all other)...wait...

The lady who answered said instantly that all the built-in generators
are charged from the "T1" wire from the house.

She said the "T1" wire was blue or white and went in behind the
control panel. She didn't know the difference between 120VAC and 12VDC,
but still, she was sure that the T1 wire fed the battery.

She said when it exercises, it doesn't generate any power.


If, given the context, she means the generator doesn't charge the
battery during the brief weekly exercise, she's doesn't know WTF
she's talking about. Which is probably the case, since she apparently
doesn't know the difference between 120V and 12V. Good person to have
on the gen hotline. And reinforces my dim view of Generac.

It generates power to charge the battery, to run the engine ignition.
It's just not connected to the house to power it.




So, based on that, I was dead wrong.
The built-in generator charges the battery from the mains.
I was wrong.

trader_4 wrote, on Mon, 22 Dec 2014 13:05:14 -0800:

If, given the context, she means the generator doesn't charge the
battery during the brief weekly exercise, she's doesn't know WTF she's
talking about. Which is probably the case, since she apparently doesn't
know the difference between 120V and 12V.

This is what she said.
She was clear.
But, it was also clear she didn't realize 120VAC doesn't directly
charge 12VDC, nor that it takes more than that one T1 wire.

So, I'll call again tomorrow and hopefully get someone who knows
a bit more. Or I'll ask them to ask someone who knows.

On 12/22/2014 4:05 PM, trader_4 wrote:
If, given the context, she means the generator doesn't charge the
battery during the brief weekly exercise, she's doesn't know WTF
she's talking about. Which is probably the case, since she apparently
doesn't know the difference between 120V and 12V. Good person to have
on the gen hotline. And reinforces my dim view of Generac.

Thank God she can't be convicted on USENET hearsay.

On 12/22/2014 2:10 PM, Danny D. wrote:
O Wren wrote, on Mon, 22 Dec 2014 08:41:32 -0500:

With this being the week of Festivus, good luck with that...LOL.

What you could do is open the hood on your generator and measure/record
the battery voltage.

Then disconnect the ground lead of the battery, wait 24 hours, and
measure the battery voltage again.

If the battery voltage drops after being disconnected from the generator
for 24 hours, the generator obviously has a grid-powered charging
circuit.

Capeesh?
Is this "Oren"?

Anyway, I was dead wrong and all you guys were right (as usual).
I called Generac at 888-436-3722x2(consumer)x2(existing product)x2
(permanent)x3(all other)...wait...

The lady who answered said instantly that all the built-in generators
are charged from the "T1" wire from the house.

She said the "T1" wire was blue or white and went in behind the
control panel. She didn't know the difference between 120VAC and 12VDC,
but still, she was sure that the T1 wire fed the battery.

She said when it exercises, it doesn't generate any power.

So, based on that, I was dead wrong.
The built-in generator charges the battery from the mains.
I was wrong.


As I posted earlier, my Generac works as you now state. It only charges
the battery when not running, and when the electric company power is
available. I did go to the authoritative site for Generac repairs,
Ziller, and did learn that some of their products do indeed have a
winding on the generator coil which provides a low AC voltage for
rectification / making 12VDC.

The distinction of which Generac has or does not have this "charge when
running" feature is thus model specific, and getting a schematic for
your specific model would be the way I would research it if the Ziller
experts had no opinion, (an unlikely scenario).

On Tuesday, December 23, 2014 10:31:58 AM UTC-5, Smarty wrote:
On 12/22/2014 2:10 PM, Danny D. wrote:
O Wren wrote, on Mon, 22 Dec 2014 08:41:32 -0500:

With this being the week of Festivus, good luck with that...LOL.

What you could do is open the hood on your generator and measure/record
the battery voltage.

Then disconnect the ground lead of the battery, wait 24 hours, and
measure the battery voltage again.

If the battery voltage drops after being disconnected from the generator
for 24 hours, the generator obviously has a grid-powered charging
circuit.

Capeesh?
Is this "Oren"?

Anyway, I was dead wrong and all you guys were right (as usual).
I called Generac at 888-436-3722x2(consumer)x2(existing product)x2
(permanent)x3(all other)...wait...

The lady who answered said instantly that all the built-in generators
are charged from the "T1" wire from the house.

She said the "T1" wire was blue or white and went in behind the
control panel. She didn't know the difference between 120VAC and 12VDC,
but still, she was sure that the T1 wire fed the battery.

She said when it exercises, it doesn't generate any power.

So, based on that, I was dead wrong.
The built-in generator charges the battery from the mains.
I was wrong.


As I posted earlier, my Generac works as you now state. It only charges
the battery when not running, and when the electric company power is
available.

I'm 99% certain you're wrong on that. The Generac I'm familiar with
charges either from AC or when the generator is running. It would
be pretty dumb to have a design where once power is lost, the generator
battery can't be recharged. Even D's generator clearly has a charging
circuit off the generator itself. If you have a link for a schematic
to your generator, I'd be happy to see it.





I did go to the authoritative site for Generac repairs,
Ziller, and did learn that some of their products do indeed have a
winding on the generator coil which provides a low AC voltage for
rectification / making 12VDC.

The distinction of which Generac has or does not have this "charge when
running" feature is thus model specific, and getting a schematic for
your specific model would be the way I would research it if the Ziller
experts had no opinion, (an unlikely scenario).

So far, the one you say you have is the only one I've heard of
where the generator isn't capable of charging it's own battery.

On 12/23/2014 11:13 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Tuesday, December 23, 2014 10:31:58 AM UTC-5, Smarty wrote:
On 12/22/2014 2:10 PM, Danny D. wrote:
O Wren wrote, on Mon, 22 Dec 2014 08:41:32 -0500:

With this being the week of Festivus, good luck with that...LOL.

What you could do is open the hood on your generator and measure/record
the battery voltage.

Then disconnect the ground lead of the battery, wait 24 hours, and
measure the battery voltage again.

If the battery voltage drops after being disconnected from the generator
for 24 hours, the generator obviously has a grid-powered charging
circuit.

Capeesh?
Is this "Oren"?

Anyway, I was dead wrong and all you guys were right (as usual).
I called Generac at 888-436-3722x2(consumer)x2(existing product)x2
(permanent)x3(all other)...wait...

The lady who answered said instantly that all the built-in generators
are charged from the "T1" wire from the house.

She said the "T1" wire was blue or white and went in behind the
control panel. She didn't know the difference between 120VAC and 12VDC,
but still, she was sure that the T1 wire fed the battery.

She said when it exercises, it doesn't generate any power.

So, based on that, I was dead wrong.
The built-in generator charges the battery from the mains.
I was wrong.


As I posted earlier, my Generac works as you now state. It only charges
the battery when not running, and when the electric company power is
available.
I'm 99% certain you're wrong on that. The Generac I'm familiar with
charges either from AC or when the generator is running. It would
be pretty dumb to have a design where once power is lost, the generator
battery can't be recharged. Even D's generator clearly has a charging
circuit off the generator itself. If you have a link for a schematic
to your generator, I'd be happy to see it.





I did go to the authoritative site for Generac repairs,
Ziller, and did learn that some of their products do indeed have a
winding on the generator coil which provides a low AC voltage for
rectification / making 12VDC.

The distinction of which Generac has or does not have this "charge when
running" feature is thus model specific, and getting a schematic for
your specific model would be the way I would research it if the Ziller
experts had no opinion, (an unlikely scenario).
So far, the one you say you have is the only one I've heard of
where the generator isn't capable of charging it's own battery.

Read this thread and other similar ones. You will then begin to
understand something you clearly do not yet appreciate:

http://zillerstore.com/forums/showth...light=charging

On Tuesday, December 23, 2014 11:50:35 AM UTC-5, Smarty wrote:
On 12/23/2014 11:13 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Tuesday, December 23, 2014 10:31:58 AM UTC-5, Smarty wrote:
On 12/22/2014 2:10 PM, Danny D. wrote:
O Wren wrote, on Mon, 22 Dec 2014 08:41:32 -0500:

With this being the week of Festivus, good luck with that...LOL.

What you could do is open the hood on your generator and measure/record
the battery voltage.

Then disconnect the ground lead of the battery, wait 24 hours, and
measure the battery voltage again.

If the battery voltage drops after being disconnected from the generator
for 24 hours, the generator obviously has a grid-powered charging
circuit.

Capeesh?
Is this "Oren"?

Anyway, I was dead wrong and all you guys were right (as usual).
I called Generac at 888-436-3722x2(consumer)x2(existing product)x2
(permanent)x3(all other)...wait...

The lady who answered said instantly that all the built-in generators
are charged from the "T1" wire from the house.

She said the "T1" wire was blue or white and went in behind the
control panel. She didn't know the difference between 120VAC and 12VDC,
but still, she was sure that the T1 wire fed the battery.

She said when it exercises, it doesn't generate any power.

So, based on that, I was dead wrong.
The built-in generator charges the battery from the mains.
I was wrong.


As I posted earlier, my Generac works as you now state. It only charges
the battery when not running, and when the electric company power is
available.
I'm 99% certain you're wrong on that. The Generac I'm familiar with
charges either from AC or when the generator is running. It would
be pretty dumb to have a design where once power is lost, the generator
battery can't be recharged. Even D's generator clearly has a charging
circuit off the generator itself. If you have a link for a schematic
to your generator, I'd be happy to see it.





I did go to the authoritative site for Generac repairs,
Ziller, and did learn that some of their products do indeed have a
winding on the generator coil which provides a low AC voltage for
rectification / making 12VDC.

The distinction of which Generac has or does not have this "charge when
running" feature is thus model specific, and getting a schematic for
your specific model would be the way I would research it if the Ziller
experts had no opinion, (an unlikely scenario).
So far, the one you say you have is the only one I've heard of
where the generator isn't capable of charging it's own battery.

Read this thread and other similar ones. You will then begin to
understand something you clearly do not yet appreciate:

http://zillerstore.com/forums/showth...light=charging

I scanned through the first page or so, nothing there that's even
a hint of proof that the generator doesn't charge the battery. An
aimless thread doesn't prove anything.

As I said, if you have a schematic, maintenance manual or similar
for your generator, that shows what you are saying, I'd be happy to see it.

On Mon, 22 Dec 2014 19:10:40 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

Is this "Oren"?

No Danny, it wasn't me. I have a secret admirer, pretends to be my
Mini-Me, lives in a basement and trolls while school is out for the
Holidays. It has a sticky keyboard, and posts while in underwear.

It doesn't know your shoe size (pool pump repairs) ...

I read your threads and could not offer nothing to your problems

Oren wrote, on Tue, 23 Dec 2014 12:20:19 -0800:

It doesn't know your shoe size (pool pump repairs) ...

(lost my coffee on that one!)

I read your threads and could not offer nothing to your problems

I was wondering. Glad you're ok. I saw that idiotic thread where
a troll disparages you. I felt badly for you, but didn't want to
feed the troll, so, I ignored it.

Glad you're still around!

Danny D. posted for all of us...



trader_4 wrote, on Mon, 15 Dec 2014 16:05:21 -0800:

I doubt it. Some of them the rubber boot just grips very tight.

That's a fair enough assumption.

I haven't heard back from Mitch, at Generac, so, in the morning,
I'll give another call.

It sure *felt* like there was a spring on that boot, although
it would have to be a very strong one to give an inch, and then
snap back like that boot did.

It was *not* stuck solid - it moved a good half inch to an inch
and snapped back.

Weird.

That was suction of air in the boot. Get a spark plug boot pliers.
Also look at the part numbers on the old plugs.

--
Tekkie

Tekkie® wrote, on Fri, 09 Jan 2015 16:19:34 -0500:

That was suction of air in the boot. Get a spark plug boot pliers.
Also look at the part numbers on the old plugs.

Actually, in hind sight, the metal cap on the boot was stuck so
tightly to the spark plug by friction alone, that the boot was
"stretching", which, when I let go, allowed it to "snap back".

The old spark plugs were nearly pristine on the ends, as there
was no corrosion whatsoever on the ends so the boots were clearly
watertight.

I did put some dielectric grease in there anyway, along with
anti-seize sacrificial-anode paste on the spark plug threads.

Power went down twice more since this thread was started, and
everything worked just fine.

Danny D. posted for all of us...


BTW, at what age do you start having children work with you
on your "real" home repair projects? Is 10 still too young?


No, your kid will have a memory for life. I still remember the time my dad
spent with me. Not much but...

--
Tekkie

On Sun, 11 Jan 2015 16:31:14 -0500, Tekkie®
wrote:

Danny D. posted for all of us...


BTW, at what age do you start having children work with you
on your "real" home repair projects? Is 10 still too young?


No, your kid will have a memory for life. I still remember the time my dad
spent with me. Not much but...

I'm a free range kid. Allowed to my on devices. I made it. I had
knots, bumps and street understanding. Nothing like allowing a child
to remove training wheels.

Danny D. posted for all of us...



trader_4 wrote, on Thu, 18 Dec 2014 04:33:22 -0800:

I'd say it tested bad. They told you based on the load test that
it was on the last 25% of it's life, which means it has reduced
capacity and they are *guessing* that's about how much life it has
left. You also know it's 4 years old. But it's your generator, house
and battery.

Fair enough.

If it were a critical application, I'd worry more. I can live without
power when it goes out (like very many people do). If I "really" want
to start the generator, I can "jump it" from my car.

So, it's not a mission critical situation if the battery doesn't
start the generator the next time the power goes out.

Then why have the generator? I love the thought of going out on a blizzard
night when the power goes out, the garage door won't open and the car
battery is dead. Oh wait, I have to put that on hold because the pipes are
freezing. I can't think over the noise of the wife letting me know what I
should have done.

--
Tekkie

On Tuesday, January 13, 2015 at 3:45:44 PM UTC-5, Tekkie® wrote:
Danny D. posted for all of us...



trader_4 wrote, on Thu, 18 Dec 2014 04:33:22 -0800:

I'd say it tested bad. They told you based on the load test that
it was on the last 25% of it's life, which means it has reduced
capacity and they are *guessing* that's about how much life it has
left. You also know it's 4 years old. But it's your generator, house
and battery.

Fair enough.

If it were a critical application, I'd worry more. I can live without
power when it goes out (like very many people do). If I "really" want
to start the generator, I can "jump it" from my car.

So, it's not a mission critical situation if the battery doesn't
start the generator the next time the power goes out.

Then why have the generator? I love the thought of going out on a blizzard
night when the power goes out, the garage door won't open and the car
battery is dead. Oh wait, I have to put that on hold because the pipes are
freezing. I can't think over the noise of the wife letting me know what I
should have done.

--
Tekkie

It's mitigated by the fact that Danny lives in northern CA where the
climate is more moderate. He does say the power seems to go out a lot
though. If it were me, I'd agree, having an older battery that the shop
tested and said was on the last 25% or so of it's life, I'd just replace
it. But where he is, if it won't start, not too likely he'll have to
deal with it in a blizzard or hurricane. It also depends if it;s where
you can pull the car up and easily jump it. But like you, I wouldn't want
to deal with that even at 9PM in the dark, when a new battery doesn't
cost that much.

On Tue, 13 Jan 2015 15:45:44 -0500, Tekkie®
wrote:

So, it's not a mission critical situation if the battery doesn't
start the generator the next time the power goes out.

Then why have the generator? I love the thought of going out on a blizzard
night when the power goes out, the garage door won't open and the car
battery is dead. Oh wait, I have to put that on hold because the pipes are
freezing. I can't think over the noise of the wife letting me know what I
should have done.

Are you tone deaf by now?

Oren posted for all of us...



On Tue, 13 Jan 2015 15:45:44 -0500, Tekkie®
wrote:

So, it's not a mission critical situation if the battery doesn't
start the generator the next time the power goes out.

Then why have the generator? I love the thought of going out on a blizzard
night when the power goes out, the garage door won't open and the car
battery is dead. Oh wait, I have to put that on hold because the pipes are
freezing. I can't think over the noise of the wife letting me know what I
should have done.

Are you tone deaf by now?

Did you say something? g

--
Tekkie *Please post a follow-up*

On Fri, 16 Jan 2015 15:56:03 -0500, Tekkie®
wrote:

So, it's not a mission critical situation if the battery doesn't
start the generator the next time the power goes out.

Then why have the generator? I love the thought of going out on a blizzard
night when the power goes out, the garage door won't open and the car
battery is dead. Oh wait, I have to put that on hold because the pipes are
freezing. I can't think over the noise of the wife letting me know what I
should have done.

Are you tone deaf by now?

Did you say something? g

Men listen to their wives about six minutes. Men speaking to their
male friends, talk and listen about 15 minutes on subjects like sex.

Every fish story is a lie - exaggeration

Im not going to read all the previous posts, but
If you want to know for sure if the gen charges the battery
While on standby, then disconnect the battery from the gen.
Connect a small 12v light bulb to the GEN wires that go to the battery.
Note dont connect the bulb to the battery, connect it to the gen.
If the bulb lights, then the geni charges the battery,
You could use a meter with the bulb to verify the voltage.
Using the meter without the bulb could give you
A false reading because a modern dvm
Is a very very very small load. Thats why the bulb.

Mark

replying to Danny D., Jim Philpot wrote:
THIS IS WAY OVER YOUR DATE POSTED BUT I HAVE RJ12YC PLUGS IN MY HAND AND I
HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY GO TO....


--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...es-816908-.htm