The power went out today, as expected (it goes out in almost every good storm),
but, what was unexpected was that the Generac 8KW generator didn't kick in.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7488/1...ff47f371_b.jpg

I had to manually flip the power switch a few times, from auto to manual to off
and back (even though it was on auto all the time and the battery was charged
as evidenced by a 3.8VDC check on the side panel) and there is plenty of
propane in the 500 gallon propane tank. I flipped the breaker a few times.
I pulled the fuse and it looked good.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8679/1...86fb0b88_b.jpg

Everything looked ok electrically, and, after a few flips of the switch,
it turned on. Recently on its weekly charging cycle, it had been turning
off and on after only a few seconds, so, that's probably related.

While the Generac not starting is one problem, the other oddity was that,
once started, and seemingly running full force, the transfer switch(s)
inside the garage were clicking for about five or ten minutes and then
stopped clicking.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7505/1...1ae182de_b.jpg

I opened the panels, but by the time I opened them, the clicking had
stopped.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7508/1...a2d214de_b.jpg

I took a video of the clicking, but I'm not sure where to upload
the movie (it's a 24MB MOV file from an iPad) if needed. Here is
a closeup of each panel - which seems to have a big solenoid inside:
Left: https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7522/1...0301e7ec_c.jpg
Right: https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7525/1...e9eca41d_c.jpg

I'm guessing that the propane generator wasn't up to speed at first,
for whatever reason, and that the voltage wasn't as high as it needed
to keep the solenoids down, so, they were clicking? But I never heard
that clicking before, and, the lights were running as soon as the
generator kicked in.

Any debugging suggestions?

On Friday, December 12, 2014 2:12:39 AM UTC-5, Danny D. wrote:
The power went out today, as expected (it goes out in almost every good storm),
but, what was unexpected was that the Generac 8KW generator didn't kick in.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7488/1...ff47f371_b.jpg

I had to manually flip the power switch a few times, from auto to manual to off
and back (even though it was on auto all the time and the battery was charged
as evidenced by a 3.8VDC check on the side panel) and there is plenty of
propane in the 500 gallon propane tank. I flipped the breaker a few times.
I pulled the fuse and it looked good.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8679/1...86fb0b88_b.jpg

Everything looked ok electrically, and, after a few flips of the switch,
it turned on. Recently on its weekly charging cycle, it had been turning
off and on after only a few seconds, so, that's probably related.

While the Generac not starting is one problem, the other oddity was that,
once started, and seemingly running full force, the transfer switch(s)
inside the garage were clicking for about five or ten minutes and then
stopped clicking.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7505/1...1ae182de_b.jpg

I opened the panels, but by the time I opened them, the clicking had
stopped.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7508/1...a2d214de_b.jpg


What was going on with the power to the house while this clicking
was going on? Lights going on and off?





I took a video of the clicking, but I'm not sure where to upload
the movie (it's a 24MB MOV file from an iPad) if needed. Here is
a closeup of each panel - which seems to have a big solenoid inside:
Left: https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7522/1...0301e7ec_c.jpg
Right: https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7525/1...e9eca41d_c.jpg

I'm guessing that the propane generator wasn't up to speed at first,
for whatever reason, and that the voltage wasn't as high as it needed
to keep the solenoids down, so, they were clicking?

It's possible it's RPM related. They have control electronics
that presumably look for certain conditions to be present, eg correct
voltage, before putting it online.



But I never heard
that clicking before, and, the lights were running as soon as the
generator kicked in.

Any debugging suggestions?

I guess that answers the question about the lights, sounds like
they were on the whole time.

Any possibility the utility power was intermittent, coming back
sporadically? If what you were hearing was the main power relay's
moving, I don't see how you could have clicking and uninterrupted
lights.

For what it's worth, I did some digging into about a 5 year old Generac
that I got for free, to try to resurrect it. The company that had
sold/installed it said it was shot and not worth fixing. This was
just used for house standby here where the power rarely goes out for
more than 15 mins. After I read the many
horror stories on reviews at Amazon, I concluded that I wouldn't buy
one, wouldn't rely on one, and that it wasn't worth putting the
money into the free one. At a minimum, the rotor was shot, possibly the
stator too. So, if I had one that's going, I'd put some money into it,
but before I put a lot into it, I'd go look at those reviews.

trader_4 wrote, on Fri, 12 Dec 2014 05:02:13 -0800:

What was going on with the power to the house while this clicking
was going on? Lights going on and off?

I was in the garage that whole time, and the fluorescent lights in
the garage were not flickering.

I guess that answers the question about the lights, sounds like
they were on the whole time.

What happened were three things:
a) Power flickered on and off and then off and on and then off.
b) Normally, by now, the generator would have kicked in, but it didn't.
c) So the house was dark (which normally never happens)
d) Opening the door, I could hear the neighbors' generators
e) Looking about, I could tell it was a power outage by the
pattern of which houses had generators & which didn't
f) Going outside, I fiddled with the generator (hitting buttons)
g) The generator kicked on and sounded good
h) The lights went on in the house (and stayed on)
i) But the control boxes in the garage were clicking
j) They clicked for five or ten minutes and then stopped clicking
k) The generator stayed on for hours (it's off now, so, PG&E must
have fixed it)

Any possibility the utility power was intermittent, coming back
sporadically? If what you were hearing was the main power relay's
moving, I don't see how you could have clicking and uninterrupted
lights.

The PG&E power "could" have been intermittent (how would I have known?).

I concluded that I wouldn't buy one, wouldn't rely on one, and
that it wasn't worth putting the money into the free one.

I swear by that thing! You have to remember that, here in California,
up in the hills, our power goes out five or six times a year.
Interestingly, we *thought* it was getting better, in that, during
the drought, the power stayed on for months before going out; but,
it has gone out thrice in as many months.

Sometimes we're out for days (the most I've seen is 3 days); but,
most of the time it's only for a half dozen hours. In this case,
the power came on during the night, as it's still dark outside,
but I see lights on the neighbors' houses who don't have generators
and I opened a window and I don't hear my generator.

Normally, I can hear mine (but nobody elses' since mine is loud);
and I can see which neighbors have lights and which don't (during
the night). But last night, I could hear the neighbor's generator,
because mine wasn't running.

On 12/12/2014 2:12 AM, Danny D. wrote:

Any debugging suggestions?


1) Start with the basics. Change the oil, make sure
the unit is clean and free of dust and debris.

2) Look for online forums. And read any paper work
you have with the machine. Might be able to get
the manual from the web site in pdf.

When my Mom's garage door opener didn't work right,
I found the manual Dad had tucked in behind. Sure
enough, that had the trouble shooting and helped me
to fix the problem.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Fri, 12 Dec 2014 08:44:03 -0500:

1) Start with the basics. Change the oil, make sure
the unit is clean and free of dust and debris.

I've never changed the oil, but I doubt that's the problem,
but it's a great idea nonetheless. I'll also take the
battery down to Autozone to have load tested.

It had 536.something hours on the clock when I snapped
that picture of the front panel in the night. I'll look
when it gets light to see how many hours it ran last
night.

2) Look for online forums. And read any paper work
you have with the machine. Might be able to get
the manual from the web site in pdf.

Googling for "Generac model 09067-9 series 8KW HSB"
I didn't find the manual, so, I'm calling them as we type:
http://www.generac.com/service-support 888-436-3722

On 12/12/2014 9:44 AM, Danny D. wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote, on Fri, 12 Dec 2014 08:44:03 -0500:

1) Start with the basics. Change the oil, make sure
the unit is clean and free of dust and debris.

I've never changed the oil, but I doubt that's the problem,
but it's a great idea nonetheless. I'll also take the
battery down to Autozone to have load tested.

It had 536.something hours on the clock when I snapped
that picture of the front panel in the night. I'll look
when it gets light to see how many hours it ran last
night.

2) Look for online forums. And read any paper work
you have with the machine. Might be able to get
the manual from the web site in pdf.

Googling for "Generac model 09067-9 series 8KW HSB"
I didn't find the manual, so, I'm calling them as we type:
http://www.generac.com/service-support 888-436-3722

I think small engines want an oil change every
25 hours or 50, so it's likely over due. I like
Castrol GX, cause it's the one brand that quieted
the rod knock in a truck, I used to have.

Some engines have a low oil shut down DAMHIKT.
That's how I got my first generator, relative
ran one low oil. I'm trying not to let them know
that was the only thing wrong with it. I added
four ounces of oil, and it ran fine. Don't tell
em, please.

Best wishes on the manual. Hope they have good
customer service.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Fri, 12 Dec 2014 09:52:25 -0500:

Some engines have a low oil shut down DAMHIKT.

That's a good point.
I never *added* oil either!

I'm still on the line with Generac support (they couldn't
find the model at first).

They're sending me "the manual", but I asked them whether it's
1. Owners Manual & Maintenance
2. Parts Manual
3. Wiring Diagram
4. Troubleshooting Guide
5. Service Manual
And, whether it contains the transfer switch information.

On 12/12/2014 10:05 AM, Danny D. wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote, on Fri, 12 Dec 2014 09:52:25 -0500:

Some engines have a low oil shut down DAMHIKT.

That's a good point.
I never *added* oil either!

I'm still on the line with Generac support (they couldn't
find the model at first).

They're sending me "the manual", but I asked them whether it's
1. Owners Manual & Maintenance
2. Parts Manual
3. Wiring Diagram
4. Troubleshooting Guide
5. Service Manual
And, whether it contains the transfer switch information.


I like our different approaches. You're techie,
and I'm nuts and bolts. Well, mostly bolts.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Danny D. wrote, on Fri, 12 Dec 2014 14:44:02 +0000:

It had 536.something hours on the clock when I snapped
that picture of the front panel in the night. I'll look
when it gets light to see how many hours it ran last
night.

It now has 540(point 0/10s) now, so, the power was out
for four hours last night.

I'm still on the line with Generac.
They'll send me a manual by snail mail & email.

can you describe the clicking in mor detail
click every second?
once a minute?
randomly spaced?
Mark

makolber wrote, on Fri, 12 Dec 2014 07:09:19 -0800:

can you describe the clicking in mor detail
click every second?
once a minute?
randomly spaced?

I just listened to the 13 second 24MB video that the iPad created.
It's a fast click. Loud and fast. Maybe 3 or 4 clicks a second.
Rapid, then skips a click or two, then rapid again.

I'm trying to upload to flickr, but it's timing out.
(need a good temporary no-registration video upload site)

Note: I'm not sure why a puny 13 second video is 25 MB.

On Friday, December 12, 2014 9:44:25 AM UTC-5, Danny D. wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote, on Fri, 12 Dec 2014 08:44:03 -0500:

1) Start with the basics. Change the oil, make sure
the unit is clean and free of dust and debris.

I've never changed the oil, but I doubt that's the problem,
but it's a great idea nonetheless.

I would think the oil should be changed about once a year,
but I agree an oil change isn't the issue.



I'll also take the
battery down to Autozone to have load tested.

Or just replace it if it's 6+ years old. I think that's what
I would do with a standby generator, as just normal PM.
But again, since it starts and runs, that isn't the problem.

trader_4 wrote, on Fri, 12 Dec 2014 08:10:22 -0800:

I would think the oil should be changed about once a year,
but I agree an oil change isn't the issue.

The manual says 50 hours in one place and every 100 hours
in another. The generator has over 500 hours, but, I didn't
put it all on (I don't remember how much I put on).

So, my plan is to give it a "tuneup", whatever that means to
a propane generator:

1. Battery tested at Autzone for voltage under load,
2. New spark plug (Champion RC12YC I think)
3. Oil change & oil filter
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8583/1...9dc07783_b.jpg

On Friday, December 12, 2014 4:43:45 PM UTC-5, Danny D. wrote:
trader_4 wrote, on Fri, 12 Dec 2014 08:10:22 -0800:

I would think the oil should be changed about once a year,
but I agree an oil change isn't the issue.

The manual says 50 hours in one place and every 100 hours
in another. The generator has over 500 hours, but, I didn't
put it all on (I don't remember how much I put on).


100 hours sounds about right. When I said once a year, I was
thinking that few of these home generators are going to run
enough in a year to reach an hour based number.
It should probably be changed once
a year anyway, regardless of usage. It starts up once a week as
a test and runs for like 10 mins, right? Doing that, sitting
outdoors, probably gets condensation into the oil, so changing it
once a year or so is probably a good idea.

On 12/12/2014 2:12 AM, Danny D. wrote:
The power went out today, as expected (it goes out in almost every good storm),
but, what was unexpected was that the Generac 8KW generator didn't kick in.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7488/1...ff47f371_b.jpg

I had to manually flip the power switch a few times, from auto to manual to off
and back (even though it was on auto all the time and the battery was charged
as evidenced by a 3.8VDC check on the side panel) and there is plenty of
propane in the 500 gallon propane tank. I flipped the breaker a few times.
I pulled the fuse and it looked good.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8679/1...86fb0b88_b.jpg

Everything looked ok electrically, and, after a few flips of the switch,
it turned on. Recently on its weekly charging cycle, it had been turning
off and on after only a few seconds, so, that's probably related.

While the Generac not starting is one problem, the other oddity was that,
once started, and seemingly running full force, the transfer switch(s)
inside the garage were clicking for about five or ten minutes and then
stopped clicking.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7505/1...1ae182de_b.jpg

I opened the panels, but by the time I opened them, the clicking had
stopped.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7508/1...a2d214de_b.jpg

I took a video of the clicking, but I'm not sure where to upload
the movie (it's a 24MB MOV file from an iPad) if needed. Here is
a closeup of each panel - which seems to have a big solenoid inside:
Left: https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7522/1...0301e7ec_c.jpg
Right: https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7525/1...e9eca41d_c.jpg

I'm guessing that the propane generator wasn't up to speed at first,
for whatever reason, and that the voltage wasn't as high as it needed
to keep the solenoids down, so, they were clicking? But I never heard
that clicking before, and, the lights were running as soon as the
generator ki




Danny,
There is a forum devoted to Generac service and attended regularly by
many Generac technicians. I am guessing you may have a leaking rubber
bellows connecting the air filter chamber to the carburetor, a common
problem, causing poor fuel/air ratio and rough starting and stalling, etc.

Good luck!
Smarty

See the website:

http://www.zillerelectric.com/forums...splay.php?f=15

On 12/12/2014 10:49 AM, Smarty wrote:

Danny,
There is a forum devoted to Generac service and attended regularly by
many Generac technicians. I am guessing you may have a leaking rubber
bellows connecting the air filter chamber to the carburetor, a common
problem, causing poor fuel/air ratio and rough starting and stalling, etc.

Good luck!
Smarty

See the website:

http://www.zillerelectric.com/forums...splay.php?f=15


Now, there's a nuts and bolts man. Much like the
bad carb gaskets I've seen over the years.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

I replaced the oil and oil filter of the Generac today, and
much to my chagrin, I found out that the engine is a v-twin
which means it needs two sparkplugs!
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7475/1...5119c4c1_b.jpg

Worse yet, I was totally unable to pull out the spark plug wire.
It's either bolted in, or extremely tightly on.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7538/1...4571e38b_c.jpg

I was pulling with all my strength on the spark plug boots.
It has some spring mechanism, but I was pulling so hard, that
I was afraid I was going to break the wires.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8675/1...72312917_b.jpg

As an aside, some animal has chewed on the high-voltage cables.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7533/1...95eab7a2_b.jpg

But, the big deal is that I can't get the spark plug cables off,
and I don't want to use super-human force, for obvious reasons.

There must be a trick of some sort ...

On 12/15/2014 1:04 AM, Danny D. wrote:
I replaced the oil and oil filter of the Generac today, and
much to my chagrin, I found out that the engine is a v-twin
which means it needs two sparkplugs!
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7475/1...5119c4c1_b.jpg

Worse yet, I was totally unable to pull out the spark plug wire.
It's either bolted in, or extremely tightly on.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7538/1...4571e38b_c.jpg

I was pulling with all my strength on the spark plug boots.
It has some spring mechanism, but I was pulling so hard, that
I was afraid I was going to break the wires.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8675/1...72312917_b.jpg

As an aside, some animal has chewed on the high-voltage cables.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7533/1...95eab7a2_b.jpg

But, the big deal is that I can't get the spark plug cables off,
and I don't want to use super-human force, for obvious reasons.

There must be a trick of some sort ...

1) Photos showed exposed wire to the low voltage
side of the ignition coil. That could explain a
lot of why it doesn't run properly.
2) Try rotate the spark plug boot left and right,
to free up the metal to metal connection. And use
spark plug grease on the reinstall.

The fins on the flywheel are for cooling air. Please
put the cover back on when you finish service.


-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Mon, 15 Dec 2014 09:03:50 -0500:

1) Photos showed exposed wire to the low voltage
side of the ignition coil. That could explain a
lot of why it doesn't run properly.

Yeah. Those wires look chewed on.

Maybe I need to stick some rat poison in there in
addition to putting the cover on.

BTW, the exposed fins are only because I had removed
the cover to them; which I will certainly put back on.

Thanks for noticing that detail!

On 12/15/2014 1:04 AM, Danny D. wrote:
I replaced the oil and oil filter of the Generac today, and
much to my chagrin, I found out that the engine is a v-twin
which means it needs two sparkplugs!
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7475/1...5119c4c1_b.jpg

Worse yet, I was totally unable to pull out the spark plug wire.
It's either bolted in, or extremely tightly on.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7538/1...4571e38b_c.jpg

I was pulling with all my strength on the spark plug boots.
It has some spring mechanism, but I was pulling so hard, that
I was afraid I was going to break the wires.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8675/1...72312917_b.jpg

As an aside, some animal has chewed on the high-voltage cables.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7533/1...95eab7a2_b.jpg

But, the big deal is that I can't get the spark plug cables off,
and I don't want to use super-human force, for obvious reasons.

There must be a trick of some sort ...

Danny,

I have replied to your prior inquiries in 3 separate posts, and you have
not acknowledged or replied to 2 of them. This will be my final attempt
to help you, barring any acknowledgement or thanks.

As I stated earlier, the Ziller forum I linked in one of my prior
replies to you is the authoritative place for Generac technicians and
advanced home users to assemble and discuss Generac repairs and issues.
I have been using it for nearly 8 years with great success as have many
others.

Rather than asking questions on this home repair forum such as why there
are two oil holes, and other very specific issues which people here are
very unlikely to know. why not go to the Ziller forum and ask people who
are working on these units every day.

If you had ordered or even looked up a description of the Generac
maintenance kit such as the one I previously linked you, then you would
not have had a huge surprise to discover that your generator had 2
cylinders and 2 spark plugs! This stuff is not that hard to find and
read about.

Use the resources Generac and Ziller provide and save yourself a lot of
wasted words, time, and effort.

Smarty wrote, on Mon, 15 Dec 2014 10:59:51 -0500:

Rather than asking questions on this home repair forum such as why there
are two oil holes, and other very specific issues which people here are
very unlikely to know. why not go to the Ziller forum and ask people who
are working on these units every day.

Hi Smarty,
I apologize for not responding to all your posts, and I did read the
suggestion to go to a generac-specific forum. I had actually gone there
and realized I had to create an account, login, etc, and decided to
call Generac instead (which is well documented).

In addition, I updated this thread, since that's where the question
started. It's usually not a good idea to have multiple threads in
multiple places, so I had opted to remain in this thread and not
open an ancillary thread.

I realize you feel that is folly, and I do understand your point,
but I have had lousy experiences with the quality of results from
many web-based forums, not the least of which is the mechanical
problem of remembering the various logins and passwords unique to
each web based forum - none of which is needed for Usenet posts.

I believe I am moving in the right direction, and I do appreciate
your advice and information. While I fault the manual for not explicitly
stating there are two spark plugs, the fact is that the exploded diagram
shows a v-twin engine, which, even though there are no spark plugs
shown in the exploded diagram, would have intimated two plugs.

Anyway, I have the second plug, and I am just waiting word from
Generac Support (Mitch) on how to properly remove the boots.

On Monday, December 15, 2014 1:05:24 AM UTC-5, Danny D. wrote:
I replaced the oil and oil filter of the Generac today, and
much to my chagrin, I found out that the engine is a v-twin
which means it needs two sparkplugs!
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7475/1...5119c4c1_b.jpg

Worse yet, I was totally unable to pull out the spark plug wire.
It's either bolted in, or extremely tightly on.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7538/1...4571e38b_c.jpg


I was pulling with all my strength on the spark plug boots.
It has some spring mechanism, but I was pulling so hard, that
I was afraid I was going to break the wires.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8675/1...72312917_b.jpg

As an aside, some animal has chewed on the high-voltage cables.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7533/1...95eab7a2_b.jpg

But, the big deal is that I can't get the spark plug cables off,
and I don't want to use super-human force, for obvious reasons.

There must be a trick of some sort ...

I doubt it. Some of them the rubber boot just grips very tight.

trader_4 wrote, on Mon, 15 Dec 2014 16:05:21 -0800:

I doubt it. Some of them the rubber boot just grips very tight.

That's a fair enough assumption.

I haven't heard back from Mitch, at Generac, so, in the morning,
I'll give another call.

It sure *felt* like there was a spring on that boot, although
it would have to be a very strong one to give an inch, and then
snap back like that boot did.

It was *not* stuck solid - it moved a good half inch to an inch
and snapped back.

Weird.

Smarty wrote, on Fri, 12 Dec 2014 10:49:27 -0500:

I am guessing you may have a leaking rubber bellows connecting the air
filter chamber to the carburetor, a common problem, causing poor
fuel/air ratio and rough starting and stalling, etc.

I saw the air filter had old sound-deadening insulation in it:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7583/1...bf2b5dd7_c.jpg

I can see a badly chewed on set of high tension wires:
coil #1 https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7533/1...95eab7a2_b.jpg
coil #2 https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7575/1...401dcdf8_b.jpg

And, the spark plugs are probably shot, but I couldn't get them out:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7485/1...dabf8053_b.jpg

And, the oil was definitely very low:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7514/1...9fb6228e_b.jpg

So, once I figure out the two enigmas, it should be back up and
running.

Enigma #1:
Why are there two oil fill holes?
Maybe there was truth to the second oil tank in the first
owners manual?
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8681/1...0ab1d788_b.jpg

Enigma #2:
Why can't I pull off the spark plug boots?
Maybe they are bolted on somehow? Can that be?
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8675/1...72312917_b.jpg

On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 06:22:10 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote in

I can see a badly chewed on set of high tension wires:
coil #1 https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7533/1...95eab7a2_b.jpg
coil #2 https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7575/1...401dcdf8_b.jpg

That doesn't look good at all.
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CRNG wrote, on Mon, 15 Dec 2014 04:17:46 -0600:

That doesn't look good at all.

I did have the battery checked:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7543/1...7ae3c7de_c.jpg

It's from 2010 & it has a slight bulge (probably froze at some point?).

The parts guy instantly pronounced it dead on sight, but, I had charged
it up the night before on a 6-amp charger and it seemed to be taking
2 amps without issue and holding a charge under the open-circuit
no-load test of a voltmeter.

I had the Kragen/O'Reilly guy test it under load on his battery tester,
which took about 10 minutes, and the report came back as "Good", but
that the battery was on its last "quarter of life".

Given that the battery is 4 years old, I'm sure it *is* on its last
quarter but I asked if they input the date, and they said no, so,
the machine must be evaluating the dynamics of the battery under load.

It has an easy life though. It just sits there and starts the generator
once a week, and gets charged for 20 minutes to repay it for its
effort.

"Danny D." wrote in message
...
The parts guy instantly pronounced it dead on sight, but, I had charged
it up the night before on a 6-amp charger and it seemed to be taking
2 amps without issue and holding a charge under the open-circuit
no-load test of a voltmeter.


Unless a battery has an internal short almost all batteries will show full
voltage without a load. The open circuit voltage tells almost nothing
unless the battery is totally bad or dead.
..



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On Wednesday, December 17, 2014 1:11:48 PM UTC-5, Danny D. wrote:
CRNG wrote, on Mon, 15 Dec 2014 04:17:46 -0600:

That doesn't look good at all.

I did have the battery checked:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7543/1...7ae3c7de_c.jpg

It's from 2010 & it has a slight bulge (probably froze at some point?).

The parts guy instantly pronounced it dead on sight, but, I had charged
it up the night before on a 6-amp charger and it seemed to be taking
2 amps without issue and holding a charge under the open-circuit
no-load test of a voltmeter.

I had the Kragen/O'Reilly guy test it under load on his battery tester,
which took about 10 minutes, and the report came back as "Good", but
that the battery was on its last "quarter of life".

Given that the battery is 4 years old, I'm sure it *is* on its last
quarter but I asked if they input the date, and they said no, so,
the machine must be evaluating the dynamics of the battery under load.

It has an easy life though. It just sits there and starts the generator
once a week, and gets charged for 20 minutes to repay it for its
effort.

It's being charged/maintained 24/7 by the generator controller using
AC line power. It doesn't need the generator running to charge it.
Four years old, on the last quarter of it's life per the load test,
it's already been taken out, critical need in a power outage, seems like
an easy decision to me.

On 12/15/2014 1:22 AM, Danny D. wrote:
Smarty wrote, on Fri, 12 Dec 2014 10:49:27 -0500:


I can see a badly chewed on set of high tension wires:
coil #1 https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7533/1...95eab7a2_b.jpg
coil #2 https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7575/1...401dcdf8_b.jpg

CY: I saw bare copper low voltage wire, and some
bad insulation on the high voltage wire, on the
other one. The colored wire might be possible
to cut out the bare copper, and splice in some
newer wire. The black wire, I'd buy a roll of
good electrical tape, and wrap it.

And, the spark plugs are probably shot, but I couldn't get them out:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7485/1...dabf8053_b.jpg

And, the oil was definitely very low:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7514/1...9fb6228e_b.jpg


CY: Less than a quart and a half, for sure.

So, once I figure out the two enigmas, it should be back up and
running.

Enigma #1:
Why are there two oil fill holes?
Maybe there was truth to the second oil tank in the first
owners manual?
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8681/1...0ab1d788_b.jpg

Enigma #2:
Why can't I pull off the spark plug boots?
Maybe they are bolted on somehow? Can that be?
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8675/1...72312917_b.jpg


CY: Most likely lack of maint. Twist left and
right repeatedly, and then pull again. use
spark plug grease inside the boots when
reassembling.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Mon, 15 Dec 2014 09:11:13 -0500:

The colored wire might be possible
to cut out the bare copper, and splice in some
newer wire. The black wire, I'd buy a roll of
good electrical tape, and wrap it.

It's raining now (woo hoo!) but when the rain stops, I will wrap
the blue bare wire with electrical tape (and maybe reinforce it
with some bare copper wire) and wrap up the high-voltage wire
also.

Thanks for the suggestion!

On 12/15/2014 10:56 AM, Danny D. wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote, on Mon, 15 Dec 2014 09:11:13 -0500:

The colored wire might be possible
to cut out the bare copper, and splice in some
newer wire. The black wire, I'd buy a roll of
good electrical tape, and wrap it.

It's raining now (woo hoo!) but when the rain stops, I will wrap
the blue bare wire with electrical tape (and maybe reinforce it
with some bare copper wire) and wrap up the high-voltage wire
also.

Thanks for the suggestion!

The blue wire, if it were mine. I'd cut out the bare
part. use wire, crimps, and some electric tape to
spilce what's chewed. But, that's me.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Monday, December 15, 2014 1:22:34 AM UTC-5, Danny D. wrote:
Smarty wrote, on Fri, 12 Dec 2014 10:49:27 -0500:

I am guessing you may have a leaking rubber bellows connecting the air
filter chamber to the carburetor, a common problem, causing poor
fuel/air ratio and rough starting and stalling, etc.

I saw the air filter had old sound-deadening insulation in it:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7583/1...bf2b5dd7_c.jpg

I can see a badly chewed on set of high tension wires:
coil #1 https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7533/1...95eab7a2_b.jpg
coil #2 https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7575/1...401dcdf8_b.jpg


Just for the record, only one of them is on the high voltage side,
the one that isn't too bad. The other one, blue, is on the primary side.



And, the spark plugs are probably shot, but I couldn't get them out:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7485/1...dabf8053_b.jpg

And, the oil was definitely very low:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7514/1...9fb6228e_b.jpg

So, once I figure out the two enigmas, it should be back up and
running.

Enigma #1:
Why are there two oil fill holes?
Maybe there was truth to the second oil tank in the first
owners manual?
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8681/1...0ab1d788_b.jpg

Enigma #2:
Why can't I pull off the spark plug boots?
Maybe they are bolted on somehow? Can that be?
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8675/1...72312917_b.jpg

They aren't bolted on. It's a conventional spark plug, with nothing
to bolt to.

trader_4 wrote, on Wed, 17 Dec 2014 06:17:57 -0800:

They aren't bolted on. It's a conventional spark plug,
with nothing to bolt to.

UPDATE:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7518/1...5313e933_b.jpg

Unfortunately, for me, in the middle of the rainy night, the
power went out again (second time in as many days), with the
8KW generator still lying fallow, no battery, no oil, and all
the covers off and electrical breakers off.

Sticking my head outside on the balcony, I could hear all the
neighbors' generators roaring in the rainy night, so, I knew
it wasn't just me, so, I rolled over, and groaned, and went
back to sleep.

At around 5 in the morning, my 10-year old grandson wanted to
get on the net so I rolled out of my nice warm bed, grabbed
a flashlight, and went out with him to put it back together
in the dark misty air (nice sky though).

It was hard to see, but, we then hit upon the idea of using
the car's headlight, so, with better illumination, we soon
had her running again (still on the old plugs) before sunlight.

My grandson is probably too young for such things, as he was
very uncomfortable in the dark, cold, and rain, and he worried
far too much that we'd get electrocuted (his mom always tells
him that I break far more than I fix, heh heh ...).

BTW, at what age do you start having children work with you
on your "real" home repair projects? Is 10 still too young?

On 12/17/2014 12:59 PM, Danny D. wrote:
trader_4 wrote, on Wed, 17 Dec 2014 06:17:57 -0800:

They aren't bolted on. It's a conventional spark plug,
with nothing to bolt to.

UPDATE:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7518/1...5313e933_b.jpg

Unfortunately, for me, in the middle of the rainy night, the
power went out again (second time in as many days), with the
8KW generator still lying fallow, no battery, no oil, and all
the covers off and electrical breakers off.

Sticking my head outside on the balcony, I could hear all the
neighbors' generators roaring in the rainy night, so, I knew
it wasn't just me, so, I rolled over, and groaned, and went
back to sleep.

At around 5 in the morning, my 10-year old grandson wanted to
get on the net so I rolled out of my nice warm bed, grabbed
a flashlight, and went out with him to put it back together
in the dark misty air (nice sky though).

It was hard to see, but, we then hit upon the idea of using
the car's headlight, so, with better illumination, we soon
had her running again (still on the old plugs) before sunlight.

My grandson is probably too young for such things, as he was
very uncomfortable in the dark, cold, and rain, and he worried
far too much that we'd get electrocuted (his mom always tells
him that I break far more than I fix, heh heh ...).

BTW, at what age do you start having children work with you
on your "real" home repair projects? Is 10 still too young?

People mature at different ages, you poopy
head and some never grow up, toilet paper
nose. (I'm over 50, for example.)

Most tens can observe, simple tasks, and
all. I think you did good to put him into
the action. He will be FAR better off in
life if he can turn screws, replace spark
plugs, fill oil, check dip stick, and so
on. Wish more grand parents brought the
kids into reality.

At 5 AM, tell your grand son to get his
buns back to bed and don't come out till
8 AM. Next time he wakes you at 5 AM, he
will be shoveling to find the clean out
trap in the back yard.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Danny D. posted for all of us...


BTW, at what age do you start having children work with you
on your "real" home repair projects? Is 10 still too young?


No, your kid will have a memory for life. I still remember the time my dad
spent with me. Not much but...

--
Tekkie

trader_4 wrote, on Wed, 17 Dec 2014 06:17:57 -0800:

It's a conventional spark plug, with nothing to bolt to.

I picked these up at Kragen/O'Reilly this morning to pull
the plugs off.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7475/1...80411cde_b.jpg

If the plugs do just pull straight out, this will give me
the leverage, minimizing the risk to the "wire" from the
tremendous force that is needed.

Danny D. wrote, on Wed, 17 Dec 2014 18:02:44 +0000:

If the plugs do just pull straight out, this will give me
the leverage, minimizing the risk to the "wire" from the
tremendous force that is needed.

BTW, the plugs were surprisingly in great shape.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7534/1...b9347cb2_b.jpg

What matters to a plug, first and foremost, is a sharp edge,
which concentrates lines of force. The central electrode
was still (almost) as sharp as new.

What matters next is the gap, which was still around 30
thousandths of an inch.

The central insulator was carbon'd up, which is to be
expected, and not at all greasy or damaged.

Overall, there was no reason to replace the plugs, but,
I replaced them anyway since I already had them in hand.