On 12/14/2013 8:55 AM, wrote:
On Friday, December 13, 2013 11:12:19 PM UTC-5, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
Danny you can switch to an electronic thermostat for very little
money and use the mercury switches from your old one for the next
bomb you build. The electronic thermostats have a built in time
delay for their operation which really protects your system by
preventing "hammering" of the control circuit. A time delay is
really more important for air conditioning since turning it on and
off repeatedly will cause a great deal of stress on the compressor.
I install a timer in AC condensers for customers who have an older
mechanical thermostat to prevent the compressor being turned on and
off repeatedly, I use a 3 minute delay.

That's a good point that I never thought of before. And now that I
think about it, you would think they would just have put the delay
into the HVAC eqpt to begin with. I guess the other side of the
argument is that if it was so bad for the compressors, you would
think a lot of them would have failed in the days of old. I wonder
what they actually did? Did they manage to start anyway or did they
have an overload that kicked out and recycled like refrigerators
had?


The contractor grade HVAC systems are made as cheaply as possible and
often lack all the bells and whistles of the more expensive units. I've
added anti short cycle timers, surge arresters, low pressure switches
and high pressure manual reset switches. The low pressure switch cuts
the control circuit power if the freon leaks out to protect the
compressor and the high pressure switch cuts control voltage if the high
side pressure goes too high like when the condenser fan fails or if the
condenser coil becomes obstructed because it's clogged with dirt, animal
hair or trash that gets sucked up against it. The expensive units
usually have everything except the surge arresters which I add to the AC
systems in rural areas because they are more likely to get power surges.
The AC system compressors have an internal automatic overload which pops
if the the compressor gets too hot or draws too much current because of
a locked rotor due to high pressure from the compressor being stopped or
slammed on and off by power blinks or someone playing with the
thermostat. With the anti short cycle timer, the system won't cut on and
off with power blinks or thermostat fiddling because every time the
control voltages goes off, the timer keeps the contactor from pulling in
until 3 to 5 minutes pass. I use the adjustable timers but potted preset
timer modules are also available with a 5 minute delay. On all of the
commercial AC condensers, I will also add a fan cycle control because
the AC systems are often run in the middle of winter. When the high side
pressure drops too low, the system will not operate properly because
there is no proper pressure differential. The fan control will not turn
on the condenser fan until the high side comes up to a proper pressure.
You will see the condenser fan turn on and off as the high side pressure
goes up and down. In very cold weather and a slight breeze, the
compressor is happy without the condenser fan ever coming on. ^_^

TDD

On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 05:01:25 +0000 (UTC), Danny D'Amico
wrote:

On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 22:12:19 -0600, The Daring Dufas wrote:

Danny you can switch to an electronic thermostat for very little money
Is it a 1:1 conversion?
Do folks have a recommended thermostat to use as a replacement?

It's certainly not cheap, but I have a Nest (need another one). The
instructions (online) are very good and if you need help, they're very
responsive.

On 12/13/2013 11:12 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
You could install a thermostat inside the return air duct but
leave the old thermostat on the wall for your wife to fiddle with. ^_^

TDD

Best advice I've heard in years. I remember Earl Proulx
(the Yankee Handyman) did that. I read in his book, a
couple decades ago. I've long since misplaced the book.
He put the working Tstat behind the sofa on the baseboard.

When my sister and her boyfriend lived in a house, we
discussed run a second Tstat wire. The guy next door had
the stat, and he'd turn it way down before going to work.
They asked him many times not to do that, but to no avail.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Irreverent Maximus wrote:

'Und der Haifisch, der hat Zähne
und die trägt er im Gesicht
und Macheath, der hat ein Messer
doch das Messer sieht man nicht.'

'Die Moritat von Mackie Messer' Weill/Brecht


Does Rammstein do a version?

No, but the allude to it in Haifisch:

"Und der Haifisch der hat Tränen
Und die laufen vom Gesicht
Doch der Haifisch lebt im Wasser
so die Tränen sieht man nicht"

Mackie Messer wasn't big on Tränen. Culturally speaking, 'Haifisch' os a
step up from 'Pussy' at least. If I'm going to have an earworm, I'd rather
it wasn't 'You've got a pussy, I've got a dick. So what's the problem?'

Winston_Smith wrote:

I think bowman has made his choice and I agree with smaller more
useful knives. The biggest ugliest one I carry is the air-force
survival version of the Kbar. Smaller blade. It's the least used of my
edged tools.

That actually has a 1/2" shorter blade than the BK2 but the blade pattern
makes it look more aggressive. I mostly use the BK2 for trail grooming. If a
pine falls across the trail, the branches make it difficult to crawl over
the trunk so I lop them off. I did whittle my way through a tree about 3" in
diameter to remove it entirely. It can be done, but a hatchet would be
better. For most tasks, it's a pain in the ass.

The good news is you can baton with it. I don't know if it was Bear Gryllis
or some other TV survivalist that made that popular but it seems to be the
ultimate test of a knife these days.

On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 11:41:43 -0500, krw wrote:

It's certainly not cheap, but I have a Nest (need another one). The
instructions (online) are very good and if you need help, they're very
responsive.

I had never heard of "Nest"; but their stuff looks neat!
http://www.poplarnetwork.com/news/ne...ergy-providers

On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 20:49:13 +0000 (UTC), Danny D'Amico
wrote:

On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 11:41:43 -0500, krw wrote:

It's certainly not cheap, but I have a Nest (need another one). The
instructions (online) are very good and if you need help, they're very
responsive.

I had never heard of "Nest"; but their stuff looks neat!
http://www.poplarnetwork.com/news/ne...ergy-providers

https://nest.com/thermostat/life-with-nest-thermostat/

On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 05:12:01 +0000 (UTC), Danny D'Amico
wrote:

On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 17:52:00 -0800, Oren wrote:

Glad you are safe. People here; today, were thinking of you.
That's nice to know.
You guys have always come through for me, whenever I was in a puddle.


I was worried one time that you might cut your foot off while
splitting those green logs.

Did you ... break down every part; when installing
the furnace door would have worked the door switch...

Just to be clear, the door itself didn't solve the problem because
the blower was running constantly. But when I reassembled the
thermostat, the blower stopped; but the furnace wouldn't go on.


A mercury switch works best when done right

After tapping everything, and blowing it all out with compressed
air, the blower went on, but only for a very short time.

And, after disassembling all wires (one at a time), cleaning
each of them, and tapping on all relays & switches, the blower
started working like it should.

So, it wasn't *just* the blower door (although, I do agree, that
was a "duh" moment for me when I saw that!).


Do Doo happens

[snip]

On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 11:41:43 -0500, wrote:

On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 05:01:25 +0000 (UTC), Danny D'Amico
wrote:

On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 22:12:19 -0600, The Daring Dufas wrote:

Danny you can switch to an electronic thermostat for very little money
Is it a 1:1 conversion?
Do folks have a recommended thermostat to use as a replacement?

It's certainly not cheap, but I have a Nest (need another one). The
instructions (online) are very good and if you need help, they're very
responsive.

Yikes! ($249.00)

http://www.amazon.com/Nest-Learning-Thermostat-Generation-T200577/dp/B009GDHYPQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1387060410&sr=8-1&keywords=nest+thermostat

On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 12:40:30 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

When my sister and her boyfriend lived in a house, we
discussed run a second Tstat wire. The guy next door had
the stat, and he'd turn it way down before going to work.
They asked him many times not to do that, but to no avail.

That does not sound like a house to me. Sounds like some odd
arrangement.

He who controls the T-stat, wins.

On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 20:49:13 +0000 (UTC), Danny D'Amico
wrote:

On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 11:41:43 -0500, krw wrote:

It's certainly not cheap, but I have a Nest (need another one). The
instructions (online) are very good and if you need help, they're very
responsive.

I had never heard of "Nest"; but their stuff looks neat!
http://www.poplarnetwork.com/news/ne...ergy-providers

And cost American dollars, too. Not something I need, even on a
3-year old new HVAC system.

My T-stat has an annoying digitized female voice - turned off, of
course.

On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 14:29:25 +0000 (UTC), Danny D'Amico
wrote:

So, for me, it was a tremendous learning experience. Now, when I look
at the heater with the doors off, all the parts at least make sense.

....think about cleaning or adjusting those burner
orifices....efficient

The orange flame on the right is a waste of fuel. Bright blue/white
tips are better/best...aligned correctly.

I took the Mormon's bet that your next project would not be a
Microwave fail, so prove me right

On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 14:36:16 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 11:41:43 -0500, wrote:

On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 05:01:25 +0000 (UTC), Danny D'Amico
wrote:

On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 22:12:19 -0600, The Daring Dufas wrote:

Danny you can switch to an electronic thermostat for very little money
Is it a 1:1 conversion?
Do folks have a recommended thermostat to use as a replacement?

It's certainly not cheap, but I have a Nest (need another one). The
instructions (online) are very good and if you need help, they're very
responsive.

Yikes! ($249.00)

http://www.amazon.com/Nest-Learning-Thermostat-Generation-T200577/dp/B009GDHYPQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1387060410&sr=8-1&keywords=nest+thermostat

Yep! I bought mine when after we left our other house. It was empty
all last Winter so wanted to keep tabs on the house. We left the
Internet connected so I could monitor the house temperature and bump
up on the really cold[*] nights.

After using one, the thing that sold me on the Nest was the ability to
control the second-stage heat. Since no one was living there, I
didn't care about recovery time so turned off the second stage unless
it took more than two hours to recover. If it's that cold, the second
stage was needed. This control (and WiFi remote) completely sold me
on the Nest. However, I haven't sprung for the second one for the
main floor, here.
[*] Well, it's in East-Central Alabama, so I guess not so "really
cold". ;-)

On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 14:40:58 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 12:40:30 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

When my sister and her boyfriend lived in a house, we
discussed run a second Tstat wire. The guy next door had
the stat, and he'd turn it way down before going to work.
They asked him many times not to do that, but to no avail.

That does not sound like a house to me. Sounds like some odd
arrangement.

He who controls the T-stat, wins.

When I first got out of college we sublet the bottom floor of an old
house from the people living upstairs. They were paying the heat
bills but the t'stat was downstairs in our apartment. They didn't
like the heating bills but it was on *old* house.

On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 17:24:51 -0500, krw wrote:

https://nest.com/thermostat/life-with-nest-thermostat/

Wow. It learns. You just use it like you do the regular thermostat, and,
it learns what to do.

It seems too good to be true.

On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 18:24:04 -0500, krw wrote:

After using one, the thing that sold me on the Nest was the ability to
control the second-stage heat. Since no one was living there, I
didn't care about recovery time so turned off the second stage unless
it took more than two hours to recover.

What's a second-stage heat?

Googling for 'second stage heat', I find it's apparently related to
heat pumps.

So, I guess I don't have that (since I never saw a heat pump in my life).

On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 14:52:11 -0800, Oren wrote:

I took the Mormon's bet that your next project would not be a
Microwave fail, so prove me right

Heh heh ... I've got a microwave that needs a new "something",
and all I know is that it's not the diode.

On 12/14/2013 12:49 PM, rbowman wrote:
Winston_Smith wrote:

I think bowman has made his choice and I agree with smaller more
useful knives. The biggest ugliest one I carry is the air-force
survival version of the Kbar. Smaller blade. It's the least used of my
edged tools.

That actually has a 1/2" shorter blade than the BK2 but the blade pattern
makes it look more aggressive. I mostly use the BK2 for trail grooming. If a
pine falls across the trail, the branches make it difficult to crawl over
the trunk so I lop them off. I did whittle my way through a tree about 3" in
diameter to remove it entirely. It can be done, but a hatchet would be
better. For most tasks, it's a pain in the ass.

The good news is you can baton with it. I don't know if it was Bear Gryllis
or some other TV survivalist that made that popular but it seems to be the
ultimate test of a knife these days.

"I remember how my great-uncle Jerry would sit on the porch and
whittle all day long. Once he whittled me a toy boat out of a larger
toy boat I had. It was almost as good as the first one, except now
it had bumpy whittle marks all over it. And no paint, because he had
whittled off the paint."

From Jack Handy's "Deep Thoughts"

http://www.boche.net/deep_thoughts.htm


--
"We are not retreating - we are advancing in another Direction." -
General Douglas MacArthur (1880-1964)

On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 23:48:48 +0000 (UTC), Danny D'Amico
wrote:

On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 18:24:04 -0500, krw wrote:

After using one, the thing that sold me on the Nest was the ability to
control the second-stage heat. Since no one was living there, I
didn't care about recovery time so turned off the second stage unless
it took more than two hours to recover.

What's a second-stage heat?

Heat pumps often have two "stages" of compressor or a resistive
heating element for very cold weather. When this kicks in, the power
meter goes into turbo-$ mode. Some thermostats kick in the second
stage if the delta-t is two degrees or more. Not good, in most cases.

Googling for 'second stage heat', I find it's apparently related to
heat pumps.

Yes.

So, I guess I don't have that (since I never saw a heat pump in my life).

Amazing. It's not just a Southern thing, though the electric rates
(and the need for AC anyway) down here make them very attractive. My
brother, when he was in N. Philly, had one in his house.

Danny D'Amico wrote:
On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 17:24:51 -0500, krw wrote:

https://nest.com/thermostat/life-with-nest-thermostat/

Wow. It learns. You just use it like you do the regular thermostat, and,
it learns what to do.

It seems too good to be true.

Hi,
It has AI logic so it can learn the pattern of heat/cool
cycles after a while.

Danny D'Amico wrote:
On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 18:24:04 -0500, krw wrote:

After using one, the thing that sold me on the Nest was the ability to
control the second-stage heat. Since no one was living there, I
didn't care about recovery time so turned off the second stage unless
it took more than two hours to recover.

What's a second-stage heat?

Googling for 'second stage heat', I find it's apparently related to
heat pumps.

So, I guess I don't have that (since I never saw a heat pump in my life).

Hi,
Heat pump or forced air furnace or air conditioner has multi stage ones.

Danny D'Amico wrote:
On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 14:52:11 -0800, Oren wrote:

I took the Mormon's bet that your next project would not be a
Microwave fail, so prove me right

Heh heh ... I've got a microwave that needs a new "something",
and all I know is that it's not the diode.

Hi,
Then time to chuck it. Instead of trying to deal with HV x-former or
magnetron, buying new one is wiser idea, IMO. Some times it's control
touch panel(not cheap) or interlock switch problem.

On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 17:17:40 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:

Then time to chuck it. Instead of trying to deal with HV x-former or
magnetron, buying new one is wiser idea, IMO. Some times it's control
touch panel(not cheap) or interlock switch problem.

Understood. The problem is the size of the darn thing has to be just about
right in order to fit above the oven. Sigh. And black too.

BTW, I *am* dealing with microwaves in a different way, as today I was trying
to get my rooftop antenna to connect to a Starbucks twenty miles away.

I failed, but here's my signal strength to a nearby antenna only 3 miles away:
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3790/1...5699bec3_o.jpg

PS: I'm a frustrated latent wannabe war driver!

On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 14:31:53 -0800, Oren wrote:

I was worried one time that you might cut your foot off while
splitting those green logs.

Well, I might fall off the roof working with this damn microwave antenna!

"Danny D'Amico" wrote in message news
On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 17:24:51 -0500, krw wrote:

https://nest.com/thermostat/life-with-nest-thermostat/

Wow. It learns. You just use it like you do the regular thermostat, and,
it learns what to do.

It seems too good to be true.


Your wife would short the thing out! :-)